Ferguson, Missouri Shooting

I'm surprised that no Board members have posted about what is going on in Ferguson, Missouri.

Probably because most peoples natural reaction to whats going on would come off as very racist, i mean theyre acting like a bunch of savages...

It's the truth. Forget about the 800 pound gorilla on the board, in this case the gorilla being race.

Because whether the cops were in the right, or in the wrong---and I've had plenty to say about cops abusing their power---what in God's name is the upside to burning down YOUR OWN NEIGHBOHOOD?

They're behaving like a pack of wild dogs, so what's racist about saying that they're acting as such?

white privilege?

@dellacroce @pizzaboy @ five families


what about the savage that gun downed an unarmed teenager in broad daylight?

if the police force weren't acting like wolves then the town would be under control

they stopped rioting until they came with the bullshit robbery story

FFS dude!

Asians, Middle Eastern, Eastern European, Italian, Irish, Native American.... loads of ethnic groups have had people killed or treated unjustly by trigger happy cops.

They don't go out EN MASSE and wreck their communities.

What the hell does looting and stealing TV's have to do with social justice?

They are not making themselves look good.

And by the by, whatever about the cop's conduct, the kid was no angel and if he was like most of the people on this board, he was raised well enough to know how to behave around people of authority.

you didn't know that kid was alive before last week

so how would u know if he's an angel or not?

the cop shot him after he "behaved" with his hands in the air

As usual, you missed my entire point. My question was:

WHAT IS THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD??

They should start shooting these animals dead in the fucking street. Then they'll really have something to cry about. And I'm sure that more than a few of them are White, which doesn't alter my opinion in the slightest.

@pizzaboy


u ain't mentioned one thing about the cop so you're not saying shit

the only point you're making is that you're a great guy with great humanity

Have you answered my question, or do you need a translator?

What is the upside to burning down your own neighborhood?

Until you can give me an answer, you have zero credibility, which is nothing new.

i think i figured out the answer to olivant's question about why no one had brought this up before…no one wanted to give cook county a reason to post something, its a sham he posts as much as he does.

PB, you and Moe make very good points.

Why would a cop use deadly force on a kid with his hands raised in the air?

That makes no sense, and I hate cops.

On fucking up their own neighborhood. That makes perfect sense cops are told to stay clear of the area. Then the thieves come out and have some fun robbing and getting some free stuff.

That has been going on forever.

Then you have a black guy in a sweat suit yelling out with his bused in professional protesters saying "no justice no peace"

The whole thing with Ferguson is just really messed up on both sides.

I was thinking on posting a Ferguson thread but knew it will be a fiasco. Someone bound to get banned and cause a trolling fuss, race baited, etc. I'm just wanted to get to the discussion of deadly excessive force that was uncalled action. There's of course the focus on the opportunistic looters, that's just plain despicable. It's foolish to riot and do property damage in your own community but these handful or so hoodlums gives the entire protest a bad image.

I want to see fair justice like the next person but without the protests, march, media interference, Jesse jackson, etc. Just the parents , witnesses, perpetrator , and have a private investigation into the matter. Too much busybodies and instigators makes it difficult to stay on track.

Yes our country's ethnic discrimination will happen and that's not going to change period. It's America's ugly scar.

Objective and intelligent. Everything that Cook County's posts lack. With Cook the lines are drawn. There's no middle ground or room for discussion. Everything is Whitey's fault. And when Whitey doesn't see things his way, Whitey's a racist.

So thanks for weighing in, BF .

the brother you're brown nosing and everybody else read your evil remarks in the thread

"shoot the animals dead" and "give them something to cry about"

whitey will give a brother a grant to start a business for being a minority

you should go find a black person to berate in real life

Preliminary autopsy results illustrate that Michael Brown was shot 6 times: 4 times in the right arm and twice in the head.

And you still haven't answered my question.

WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?


And you should go expose yourself to the sickle cell. Give the welfare system a break. You lowlife piece of garbage.

You keep taunting me and fucking taunting me, trying to get me to call you a dumb ******. But I'm not going to give you what you want. Everyone here knows what you are anyway.

^^^^

go get some balls, and tell the next black person how u feel about black people

WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?

You fucking dummy.

PB asked you a question about burning down one's neighborhood (I add looting) in response to a perceived injustice. You have not answered it; answer his question.

@olivant


someone getting gunned down (2headshots) in broad daylight ain't a perceived in justice

the cop murdered that kid

u and pizzaface are some demented mothafuckas.......god don't like ugly

WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?

First of all we haven't heard the whole story. The so called witnesses say he had his hands up and the nasty cop shot him. The witnesses were all his friends. Very early on, I had heard that the youth was trying to get the gun away from the officer. Here in town, a groups of blacks were acting up and a cop went to stop it. A young man pulled up his shirt and reached for a gun so the cop shot him (Fatally) His buddies ran away with his gun so now they are saying a white cop shot an unarmed black youth, and all his friends say "No gun". Al Sharpton missed an opportunity here todo some race agitating. It will take a long time to see the truth- if we ever do. As above posters have repeatedly said- There is absolutely no excuse for the looting, just like there was no excuse for doing it in New Orleans during the hurricane. Did the officer over do it??? I think he did. Officers are trained to shoot to kill, not wound. What about the two persons who were shot during last nights rioting, and not by cops ??? Also, it appears to me that our president had already taken sides.

Cookcounty, I don't care about people being black, white, pink, brown, green or striped, and I don't like taking sides in arguments, but I would like to join the question: what's the point of burning down your own neighborhood? If they lynched the cop it would at least follow a logic.

Well, they just announced on the news that there is now going to be a federal civil rights investigation. What more could we expect from the racist eric holdem.

Good post. I've posted plenty about cops who abuse their power over the years. My question was about the aftermath. And that imbecile won't even address the question, let alone answer it.

WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?

And the reason he's not answering is because there IS NO ANSWER that's flattering to the people who are looting right now.

They loot the stores in THEIR neighborhood that they used to patronize. What will they do now when the Nike sneaker store and the liquor store move out, is gone??? Soon, the stores will all be boarded up and they will look and feel like Detroit and they will need to travel for miles to get their stuff

Yet I wonder what the responses would be if the looters were committing those crimes in the non black areas.

I think they would call in the Cavalry and arrest those who are looting, destroying property and throwing Molotov cocktails as they should be doing in Ferguson. These Looters are getting a pass from the police. That's wrong!

I don't follow you. Do you mean if the looters where White themselves, or do you mean if these same looters (predominantly Black) were looting in a White neighborhood?

It doesn't matter anyway. If they were White I'd be saying the same thing. That they're behaving like a pack of wild dogs.

Oh, I almost forgot:

WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?

.

Tune into CNN or Fox and you can watch the action on the Ferguson streets right now.

I've been following a lot of the coverage on CNN and I admit I am somewhat fascinated by what I'm seeing. I have no doubt that there are some there who are provoking and inciting the crowds. The same here on this board. We call them trolls.

I have one question that I can't figure out ... would the rioting have happened if the cop was black?

I cannot understand "looting". I've seen it a few times in my life (not firsthand, though). The Rodney King stuff, in New Orleans after the hurricane, the race riots of the mid-60s and in the worst case, in Brooklyn during the blackout of 1977. It is a crime of opportunity, not anything else. It is NOT a sign of unhappiness or anger. It's a chance to get something for free. It is shortsighted because it only serves to destroy a community. I don't care what color of residents do this, it KILLS A COMMUNITY! (You ever notice this almost always happens in the heat of summer? The inner-city kids get worked up and do this shit because they're bored. You won't see this happen on a cold winter night because nobody wants to be hanging out on the streets then).

All that said, I believe the cops overreacted here.

So to answer this waving dick of a comment (WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?), one should ask what's the upside of living in that neighborhood, period? Regardless of race and how segregated housing situation still is in the US, all over the world there are poor neighborhoods and rich neighborhoods. And as the gap gets wider, the oppression to keep the status quo gets tougher and you see police acting like military forces. And when it fails, all hell breaks loose. Then people who don't have whatever they don't, go and get it. It's just the way it is. It's like throwing a ball at the wall and act all surprised when it bounces back to you.

People provoking other people are really called anarchists like the leaders of the occupy wall street.

Yes if the cop was black it still could have happened. The cops are the authority figures.

The looting is started by opportunists and then everyday people will join them. Locks don't stop real thieves. They are to keep basicly honest people from stealing. Once the doors are broken in to everyone thinks they can take a taste.

I was in the middle of the Harlem riots in the 60s. The tactical patrol cops were out to stop it. They were all big guys on horse back. They were trying to keep the rioters from moving east from Lexington ave.

They could not stop them. So the people who lived east of Lexington decided to stop them. I got friendly with one of those tactical patrol cops. I met him again years later. I needed a handyman got him from my local hardware store.

Then we got to talking, and he remembered me from my Harlem days.

They coined the phrase Long Hot summer during those summer riots also that song hot time summer in the city.

That is right being bored s a big part of it. Nothing to do so they find something to do.

Another night of Unrest......
http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/ferguson-of...atest-protests/

Two shot, 31 arrested as Ferguson erupts in another night of violence
By Associated PressAugust 19, 2014 | 2:05am
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Police advance in Ferguson to clear people during a protest late on Aug. 18.
Photo: AP
FOLLOW THE STORY

Two shot, 31 arrested as Ferguson erupts in another night of violence
National Guard arrives in Ferguson amid violent protests
Eric Holder sent to Ferguson for Michael Brown investigation
Ferguson looting spreads to neighboring towns
Michael Brown had marijuana in his system: medical examiner
Obama takes vacation break to return to Washington
SEE ALL 36 STORIES
FERGUSON, Mo. — The National Guard arrived in Ferguson but kept its distance from the streets where protesters clashed again with police, as clouds of tear gas and smoke hung over the St. Louis suburb where Michael Brown was fatally shot by a police officer.
Protesters filled the streets after nightfall Monday, and officers trying to enforce tighter restrictions used bullhorns at times to order them to disperse. Police deployed noisemakers and armored vehicles to push demonstrators back. Officers fired tear gas and flash grenades.
Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol, who is in charge of security in Ferguson, said bottles and Molotov cocktails were thrown from the crowd and that some officers had come under heavy gunfire. At least two people were shot and 31 were arrested, he said. He did not have condition updates on those who were shot. Johnson said four officers were injured by rocks or bottles.
Demonstrators no longer faced the neighborhood’s midnight-to-5 a.m. curfew, but police told protesters that they could not assemble in a single spot and had to keep moving. After the streets had been mostly cleared, authorities ordered reporters to leave as well, citing the risk from gunfire that had been reported.
A photographer for the Getty photo agency was arrested while covering the demonstrations and later released. Two German reporters were arrested and detained for three hours. Conservative German daily Die Welt said correspondent Ansgar Graw and reporter Frank Herrmann, who writes for German regional papers, were arrested after allegedly failing to follow police instructions to vacate an empty street. They said they followed police orders.
Johnson said members of the media had to be asked repeatedly to return to the sidewalks and that it was a matter of safety. He said in some cases it was not immediately clear who was a reporter but that once it was established, police acted properly.
Citing “a dangerous dynamic in the night,” Johnson also urged protesters with peaceful intent to demonstrate during the daytime.
The latest clashes came after a day in which a pathologist hired by the Brown family said the unarmed black 18-year-old suffered a bullet wound to his right arm that may indicate his hands were up or his back was turned. But the pathologist said the team that examined Brown cannot be sure yet exactly how the wounds were inflicted until they have more information.
Witnesses have said Brown’s hands were above his head when he was repeatedly shot by an officer Aug. 9.
The independent autopsy determined that Brown was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, the family’s lawyers and hired pathologists said.

The St. Louis County medical examiner’s autopsy found that Brown was shot six to eight times in the head and chest, office administrator Suzanne McCune said Monday. But she declined to comment further, saying the full findings were not expected for about two weeks.
A grand jury could begin hearing evidence Wednesday to determine whether the officer, Darren Wilson, should be charged in Brown’s death, said Ed Magee, spokesman for St. Louis County’s prosecuting attorney.
A third and final autopsy was performed Monday for the Justice Department by one of the military’s most experienced medical examiners, Attorney General Eric Holder said.
Holder was scheduled to travel to Ferguson later this week to meet with FBI and other officials carrying out an independent federal investigation into Brown’s death.
The Justice Department has mounted an unusually swift and aggressive response to Brown’s death, from the independent autopsy to dozens of FBI agents combing Ferguson for witnesses to the shooting.
In Washington, President Barack Obama said the vast majority of protesters in Ferguson were peaceful, but warned that a small minority was undermining justice. Obama said overcoming the mistrust endemic between many communities and their local police would require Americans to “listen and not just shout.”
Obama said he also spoke to Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon about his deployment of the National Guard in Ferguson and urged the governor to ensure the Guard was used in a limited way.
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Photo: AP
Brown family attorney Benjamin Crump said Brown’s parents wanted the additional autopsy because they feared results of the county’s examination could be biased. Crump declined to release copies of the report.
“They could not trust what was going to be put in the reports about the tragic execution of their child,” he said during Monday’s news conference.
The second autopsy, Crump said, “verifies that the witness accounts were true: that he was shot multiple times.”
Forensic pathologist Shawn Parcells, who assisted former New York City chief medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden during the private autopsy, said a bullet grazed Brown’s right arm. He said the wound indicates Brown may have had his back to the shooter, or he could have been facing the shooter with his hands above his head or in a defensive position across his chest or face.
“We don’t know,” Parcells said. “We still have to look at the other (elements) of this investigation before we start piecing things together.”
Baden — who has testified in several high-profile cases, including the O.J. Simpson murder trial — said one of the bullets entered the top of Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when he suffered that fatal injury. The hired pathologists said Brown, who also was shot four times in the right arm, could have survived the other bullet wounds.
Baden also said there was no gunpowder residue on Brown’s body, indicating he was not shot at close range. However, Baden said he did not have access to Brown’s clothing, and that it was possible the residue could be on the clothing.
Crump also said Brown had abrasions on his face from where he fell to the ground, but there was “otherwise no evidence of a struggle.”

Seen a bit of it on the news over here and the scenes remind me a bit of the London riots a couple of years ago!!

Scary stuff in this day and age!!

It is disconcerting. The rioting and looting aren't the story, but rather the symptom of deeper problems.

But you didn't answer my waving dick question, did you?

You just added your usual far left nonsense from the shittiest country in the world. Fantasizing about an American utopia that you wouldn't be welcome in even if it ever came to pass (BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING IRANIAN). But I forgot about the whole year that you lived in the American south. Before you got thrown out because you couldn't find an American desperate enough to marry someone of your ilk (hence your resentment of men and this beautiful country, but I'll leave that to a psychiatrist). Gotcha.

If you read through ALL of my posts, you'd see that I was talking about what happened AFTER the fact. The AFTERMATH. I've taken abusive cops to task over and over again over the years. But because I CORRECTLY point out that these predominantly Black thugs are acting like a pack of wild fucking animals, I'm somehow some kind of racist monster now.

But you didn't answer my question, either. You just danced around it using slightly fancier words than that imbecile Cook County. Oh, sure, you gave me the usual answers about what drives these animals to act the way they do (it's Whitey's oppression, of course). But you didn't answer my waving dick question:

WHAT'S THE UPSIDE TO BURNING DOWN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?

pb, I don't know where this HATE has come from you lately but you know better than to post shit like this (I'm talking about the flaming crap). It's quite obvious you don't like afsaneh's political and social views but that is no excuse to go off on her with hurtful statements. I think you owe her an apology. Regardless, stop the trolling!

That goes for you, too, cookcounty.

Who started it, SC? Who made the waving dick comment?

Because that's aftermath of what I explained. You can't treat people like animals and when they react, call them animals. Even when they react with compassion like Martin Luther King, what they get? More violence. Everyone knows looting is bad. But this looting didn't happen in vacuum.

Rest of your post is so pathetic, I'm not even gonna dignify that with a remark. I'm just glad you showed what sort of a person you are.

She was wrong to add that but do you know how to use a Notify Post feature?

Likewise. But I said my piece. SC wants it left alone, so I'll leave it alone.

Like I just replied to Afseneh. I'm not apologizing to her, but I promise to leave it alone.

I'm beginning to get the feeling you don't understand what I'm saying. Please continue arguing your point but JUST CUT OUT THE FLAMING ATTACKS IN YOUR POSTS.

I can't make it any simpler than that. And by the way, this goes for EVERYONE.

I called the comment "A waving dick of a comment," simply because you needed it to post it over and over again as if it is some kind of a valid point. I'm not sure how it is wrong to call a comment a waving dick. Is it okay to call it BS? But since it was very recurring, I think cow diarrhea fits it better.

What the fuck is going on? Is there a full moon driving everyone crazy? afs, I'm surprised at you. You are usually more reasonable. Making a comment like that before copying someone's post is flaming. FWIW - it is a little annoying to see pb's statement recurring as much as it is, BUT, IMHO it's a valid question. Couldn't you just say something like, "How many times are you going to ask that"? I think that would make a point.

Anyway, please EVERYONE, take a deep breath, count to ten and RELAX. There's enough hate being shown on tv from Missouri. We shouldn't be adding on to it here on the GBB.

I'm sorry to have used offensive language. However, I don't think that was a valid point. Whenever there's a protest, there are people who hijack the protest with looting. Doesn't mean looting is okay, and certainly doesn't mean that people have to sit quietly and take these actions with no protest.

OK, my two cents - I've been around long enough to see (and learn) that looting one's own neighborhood is one of the stupidest things anyone can do. I don't wanna hear that it's a mindset of a socially and economically deprived class and there are reasons for it to happen. Just sitting by and making believe the reasons for looting are valid is not productive and quite frankly it is just as harmful as the looting itself.

Looters shoot their way into a store. See Video:
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/18/business-owners-cleaning-up-after-another-night-of-looting/

And yet, I never said looting is valid. That's the whole point of why I got mad with that recurrent question. It's that this whole situation has insensitively reduced to a question of if is it right to burn down your own neighborhood or not. But that's not the issue, nor is the big picture. You can't shut down an argument with asking obvious questions that has been already established. Yeah, everyone knows looting is bad. But do you expect people not to protest when police shoots one of them with such unconscionable manner? When they throw tear gas, do you expect people not to set fire to garbage cans, so they can breathe again? And then, don't you expect in a poor neighborhood, there be opportunistic looters? Denying there are bad people doesn't make them go away. And painting them as the whole of a neighborhood or race is not gonna make a valid point.

This should about sum it up:

You don’t know what happened to Michael Brown, so stop pretending that you do

Matt Walsh/ 182 Comments
I don’t know what happened to Michael Brown.
Maybe something conclusive — solid, physical evidence, pointing in one direction or another — will come out within 15 minutes of this post’s publication. Maybe it will take another week. Maybe it will be a month. Maybe we’ll never know for sure.
I don’t know when we’ll know, or if we’ll know, or what we’ll know when we know if we ever know.
I don’t know.
But I do know this: it doesn’t much matter anymore.
Sure, it matters in the actual sense. It matters to God. It matters to honest people. It matters to mature adults who just want the truth, and who don’t show up at crime scenes with pom-poms and popcorn, rooting for one side or another to “win.” It matters to the rational, the reasonable, the thoughtful.
But that is a dwindling breed. As it rapidly fades into the ether, we are left with a society populated by frauds who simply don’t care about the truth at all. It’s almost pathological at this point. They don’t hate the truth, necessarily, they just don’t see it as a particularly compelling issue. They cast their die before the facts are known, and stick by their wagers in spite of whatever information comes to light. They play their assigned role in the Great Narrative, and they never, ever, under any circumstance, stray from the script. All of this, of course, perpetuated by a media that establishes its storyline and then “reports” only on events consistent with the plot. Sometimes they make complicated situations simple, and sometimes they make simple situations complicated. Whatever the case, they make it, and then eventually they drop it and move on to the next ratings stunt.
So that’s why, to many people, it doesn’t matter what actually happened to Michael Brown. This isn’t about Michael Brown anymore. It never was, really. It’s about a narrative — a story — and Michael Brown is useful so long as he serves it.
Does anyone think the protestors will go home and apologize if the officer is vindicated by the evidence? Will MSNBC retract every reckless conjecture and misleading statement? Will Al Sharpton shout “my bad,” and head home, never again to descend like a despicable vulture whenever news cameras and racial tensions meet? Will the looters return their stolen merchandise? Will the Twitter prognosticators tweet out their mea culpas? Will social media be flooded with humbled and humiliated concessions?
If Christ Himself spoke from the heavens and contradicted the established mainstream narrative, is there any way that any of these things would happen as a result?
No, definitely not. They’d just accuse Jesus of getting His facts from Fox News.
But maybe those who’ve rushed to judgment will finally, for once, get to puff up their chests and tell us that they told us so. Maybe they’ll be proven right. Maybe. I don’t know.
I’m willing to say I don’t know, even if it robs me of the opportunity to brag that “I was right from the beginning.”
The problem is that there’s little risk in being rash and reckless. These days, nobody remembers anything that happened before yesterday, nor dwells on anything once it stops trending on Twitter. Therefore, you can be wrong a hundred times a day, you can prophesy and proclaim and accuse, you can do it all without a modicum of reason or integrity, and you will never be held accountable for it. Your credibility is only ever damaged when you stray from the Established Truth, but not when you stray from the Actual Truth.
So this probably won’t do any good, but I’d like to try to break through this wall of false certainty. It’s not that I want to convince you to take a different side; I just want to convince you that you shouldn’t be on anyone’s side right now. I can only prove that nothing’s been proven. I can only show that not enough has been shown. Do what you will with the information — or rather the lack of information — but you must at least consider this:
- Michael Brown was shot six times, twice in the head. Much is being made of the fact that the officer hit him with six bullets, but there is nothing that can be immediately gleaned from this. Despite what you’ve been told, six shots are not automatically “excessive.” It’s particularly relevant in this case to note that Brown was shot in the arm several times, and that the first five wounds were survivable. This could mean that the cop riddled an innocent man with bullets, or it could mean that the cop was shooting at an aggressive, charging suspect, and he had to keep shooting until the suspect went down.
Police are trained to shoot “center mass,” which means they shoot until the threat is neutralized. Sometimes this takes two shots, sometimes six, sometimes ten, sometimes more. Sometimes they go overboard, but nobody with firearm experience would tell you that there’s any clear bullet limit; a number that, when reached, immediately renders each subsequent bullet “excessive.”
Really, what’s the thought process here? If (notice, “IF”) Brown was on the attack, are we now saying that the cop should have fired a predetermined “reasonable” quantity of bullets, and then, if the suspect was still coming after him, he should have holstered his gun and ran for the hills, all in the name of meeting the media’s bullet quota?
This isn’t Hollywood. You can’t take everyone down with one shot.
The number of bullets only matters if certain circumstances are in play; specifically, the circumstance where Brown was surrendering. But if Brown was surrendering then it doesn’t matter if he was shot once or a dozen times, the officer would be guilty of murder. Either way, harping on the number of bullets inflames emotions and does nothing to enlighten or clarify.
- Michael Brown was unarmed. This is relevant, but it doesn’t conclusively tell us anything. The way people are carrying on, you’d think there’s never a time when an unarmed man could pose a lethal threat to an armed man. Leftwing blogs have spent all week telling us that unarmed people are shot by police officers on a relatively frequent basis. They’re right, but they’re wrong when they try to paint this dynamic in a cartoonish, simplistic, “cops are always bad and racist, and suspects are always good and innocent” light. There are many reasons why a law enforcement officer might have cause to shoot an unarmed man — the first being the rather obvious fact that cops don’t always know that the unarmed man is an unarmed man.
Are we really now suggesting that police officers should wait until they’re shot at to shoot back? What sort of maniac would ever become a cop if he had to adhere to those regulations? Being a police officer can be dangerous work; I, for one, don’t think it ought to be suicidal.
Another convincing reason to shoot an unarmed man might be when the man in question is about the size of a professional offensive lineman. Michael Brown was 6’4″ and close to 300 pounds, which makes him only a bit smaller than the average guard or tackle at this year’s NFL scouting combine.
Have you ever been physically assaulted by a 300 pound man? I haven’t, but I’m willing to believe that the experience could be fatal.
Now, if Brown was shot with his hands up, or if Brown was shot while fleeing, then his size is of no consequence. But it’s hard to believe that so many people truly think his size was of no consequence even if he was attempting to attack the officer.
There’s another point that must be raised here: nobody has any right to physically assault another human being, including a cop. Moreover, nobody, including a cop, has any responsibility to get pummeled or throttled by an assailant. If you try to harm an armed man or woman, you might get shot. This is not cruelty. This is self-preservation, and it is just. Again, we don’t know that Brown showed any hostility at all. If he didn’t, then Officer Wilson should be charged and tried. But I’m disturbed by the amount of people who seem to believe that, even if Brown did attack, he didn’t “deserve” to get shot.
It’s not about what the assailants deserve. It’s about what the assailed deserve. And they deserve to protect themselves. IF Brown had already assaulted the officer and tried to steal his gun, and IF the officer pointed his gun at Brown and yelled at him to freeze, and IF Brown ignored that command and rushed towards the officer, as an alleged friend of Officer Wilson claims, then of course the officer would be justified in using lethal force. What else would he do? Quickly put his gun away, grab a taser, and wait for the charging, gigantic individual to be close enough to hopefully subdue? That’s just not how it works, it’s not what any sane law enforcement officer would do, and it isn’t what you would do, either.
- There are eye witnesses. This is important, but it’s not as clear cut as some would like it to be.
Our primary witness is Dorian Johnson, Brown’s friend, and, as we later discovered, suspected accomplice in the robbery that occurred minutes earlier (more on that later). Even before looking at the autopsy report, we can already use rational thought to discern a few things about Johnson’s account: 1) Apart from the officer and Brown himself, Johnson had the best view of the whole ordeal. This makes his account very important. 2) He is going to be (understandably) biased. His friend was killed. Not only was his friend killed, but, according to some versions of the event, Johnson was also involved in the altercation with the cop. 3) He claims that Officer Wilson grabbed Brown by the throat from inside his cruiser. It’s incredible to think that Wilson would try to subdue a 6’4″ man in that fashion. It’s certainly unlike any police procedure I’ve ever heard of.
There is at least one detail in Johnson’s account that we now know to be inaccurate. Johnson claimed that Brown was shot in the back. The private autopsy commission by Brown’s family shows that all of the bullets entered through the front of the body, and none hit him in the back. The county’s report says the same.
Brown’s family says one of the wounds to the arm could still indicate that Brown was shot from behind. This is possible, I suppose, but it’s hardly the confirmation you’d expect after a week of being told that Brown was shot and killed while running away.
The other narrative is that Brown was shot with his hands up. The bullet wounds don’t shed any light on that, one way or another:


Another witness also claims that Brown was shot from behind, but her story contradicts the unseen man in a YouTube video, who can be heard recounting the event moments after it occurred. He seems to suggest that Brown turned and charged at Officer Wilson, and was shot in the process. “The next thing I know, he comes back towards them. The police had his guns drawn on him.”
Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable, even more so amidst a politically and ideologically fueled mass media frenzy.
- Michael Brown allegedly committed a “strong arm robbery” moments prior to his fatal encounter with police. Despite the near-unanimous consent of pundits and social media “experts,” this fact does matter.
You’ve probably heard people insist that “just because Brown stole some cigars doesn’t mean he should have been shot.” This is a classic example of a straw man argument. Nobody is saying that the revelation of Brown’s cigar-heist somehow makes this shooting justified. That is not the point. That’s not the argument.
The point is that Brown didn’t just “shoplift,” like many dishonest folks have claimed. He walked into a convenience store, brazenly grabbed merchandise from the counter, and then, when confronted, grabbed an old man by the shirt collar and pushed him to the side:


This isn’t some teenager sneaking a pack of gum into the pockets of his cargo shorts. This is a blatant act of completely unnecessary and unwarranted hostility. Grabbing a little old guy by the neck and shoving him aside? How can any honest person pretend that such an act doesn’t indicate a bit of a bully streak (to say the least)?
If Brown was willing to walk into a store and push an old man around for no reason it lends credibility to the notion that, perhaps, he might have picked a fight with a cop.
It doesn’t prove anything, but it does add another dimension to the situation. A dimension that no thinking person would ignore. I’d say his very recent history of vicious behavior is much more relevant than even the fact that Brown had marijuana in his system at the time of the incident.
I ask you this: what if Officer Wilson had pushed around a black teen earlier in the day? Actually, forget earlier in the day, what if video surfaced of him picking on a black kid a year or more before? Do you think all of these people crying “character assassination” would still be singing the same tune?
Of course not. Nor should they.
You don’t generally saunter into the one stop down the street, smack the clerk around just for the hell of it, and then carry on with your day being an otherwise gentle and affable fellow.
But what do I know?
Not much.
I don’t know. You don’t know.
Maybe the officer is a cold blooded killer. Maybe he gunned down a teenager in the middle of the street, in broad daylight, while the innocent kid had his hands up and shouted “don’t shoot.” Maybe this cop decided to throw his entire life away because he was angry, or racist, or insane. That seems implausible, but then it seems implausible that anyone would come charging at a police officer while the officer is pointing a gun right at him. Both extreme ends of this scenario just sound unlikely, but not impossible.
So maybe the truth is in between. Maybe Brown attacked the cop and went for his gun, but then retreated, and maybe the cop panicked and started firing, and maybe Brown got angry and turned around and charged at him, and maybe he was shot and disabled, but the cop kept shooting. Or maybe the officer instigated the entire altercation. Or maybe the officer just asked him to get out of the street and Brown decided to be a tough guy. Or maybe none of these hypotheticals are true.
Maybe the Officer is a murderer, or maybe he’s a good man whose life is now ruined through no fault of his own. Or maybe he’s a good man but an incompetent police office who lost control and overreacted. Maybe Brown was a good man who was viciously gunned down in his prime. Or maybe he was a hostile bully who thought he could assault a cop and walk away unscathed. Or maybe he was a good man who sometimes did stupid things, and this whole situation just got out of control.
Maybe, I don’t know.
Are you confused yet?
I hope so, because that’s the point.
You don’t know, and even what you think you know you don’t really know.
And one day, when we do know, you can come back here and tell me that you always knew, and that I should have known.
I’m sure a lot of people will do just that.
But, then again, I don’t know.

Read more at http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/18/d...4BFdUodhMp3V.99

Bean, this is a request. Instead of copying (or typing) an entire article that takes up a huge amount of screen space and can push other threads to another page, why not summarize your interpretation of and article and then provide a link to it? I and many Board members do such; it's a courtesy.

Sorry didn't know that is how is done. I just wanted to share this article with the board members. My apologies.

afs, in your attempt to set the stage for your soapbox (and there is nothing wrong with that - we all do it) you are missing one major point. pb's repeated (and unanswered) question is a valid point to be considered in light of those supporting all the bad things you yourself mentioned above.

Fact #1: There are countless number of murders of blacks by other blacks every year. Yet we don't hear a fraction of the news about that that we do when a white cop shoots a black suspect. Nor are there the kind of riots we're seeing. What does it say about the value of life the black community puts on it's own people when the only thing that gets them up in arms, and rioting and looting, is when a white person is the shooter?


Fact #2: Only about 1/4 of the police shootings involve a white cop and a black suspect. Yet it's only in that minority that we see constant accusations of "racism" or "profiling" being made. And it's only in the black community that we see rioting and looting like this.


Fact #3: In case you haven't, watch the video of the store robbery. Michael Brown and his buddy waltz in there like they own the place, steal the cigars, and then push the owner around on their way out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkOfqIXkBRE


Fact #4: Listen to the caller below, who was among the first to give the police officer's account of what happened. Considering the way Brown comes across on camera, the autopsy showed he wasn't shot in the back (not to mention had marijuana in his system), and the cop actually did suspect Brown had been involved in the strong-arm robbery, I tend to give the officer and this caller every benefit of the doubt.

https://soundcloud.com/fmnewstalk971/caller-josie-on-demand-audio-8-15-14


In my opinion, based on what I've seen so far, Brown was just another common thug. But, like Treyvon Martin before him, many in the black community (and liberals in the media) are trying to paint him as some sort of martyr, all the while ignoring the bigger problems they have that give rise to punks like Brown. And then others, far from honest outrage but simply to exploit the situation, ravage their own community.

So what you say is that since protesting eventually leads to looting, it is wrong to protest?

Not that these sort of discussions gonna change anything, as I said, it's action and reaction. You throw a ball at the wall, it's gonna bounce back to you. You can condemn the ball or the wall, but the end result after repeating this action would be the same.

I'm not saying that at all. Since you're unable to grasp what I AM saying I will back out now. I've learned that it's pointless to try to convince someone who isn't listening.

It would be useful for all Board members to practice sober reflection that is, in turn, reflected in their posts. Of course, whether intended or not, one generic characteristic of boards such as this one is to allow for emotion-laden outpourings. Such boards also allow for a sometimes amusing lack of logic.

Afs, such lack of logic is manifested in part of your post quoted here: "So what you say is that since protesting eventually leads to looting, it is wrong to protest?"

The stream of SC's post ("what you say") should not have prompted your question.

I don't get what you say SC. I'm not trying to twist your words here, that was the last guess at what you were saying. You say pb's point is valid in light of all that I said about how in a poor neighborhood protest inevitably leads to looting. So could you please clarify what you meant?

@Afseneh

I think SC meant what I meant. And I'll rephrase it so it doesn't get redundant.

We're not talking about a peaceful protest, or what the motivation of the poor and marginalized is, or even whether or not the cop was in the wrong or in the right. We're talking about the violent aftermath. The question is, what's to be gained by looting and rioting and burning down the very place where you live?

And I think the only objective answer is, nothing. There's no upside to burning down your own neighborhood. That's all the acknowledgement I was looking for before this became a free-for-all.

At the risk of drawing the ire of everyone can I straddle the fence and say I agree with ALL of you?

There was a time in this country Cops had to WALK a beat, know the civilians. Consider them as they would their family. You didn't start shooting and ask questions later!

YES I think much of the black community leadership is also to blame for leading young black masses further into NEVER believing that they are & can be better. I think some of the self loathing and over the top messages in music and media has helped fester the climate surrounding Mike Browns life.

But the race problem in USA isn't a sporting event. It's an issue that takes constant work and human elevation.

I hear ppl criticize Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson's call for moderation BUT young movements need to take notes and not freestyle rebellion.

FN, if there is any straddling, it is on each side of the fence that divides knowledge from lack thereof. There is a paucity of knowledge about what happened that fateful day in Ferguson. The extent to which such knowledge can be acquired will be a function of the criminal and civil justice systems which at this time include the St. Louis County District Attorney's Office and the US Department of Justice and not the grab-bag of information fragments available through the media.

u need to be more concerned with the chained up five year olds all over utah

witnesses said he was shot with his hands up while trying to surrender

the only known fact of the case is he was shot between 6-8 times and twice in the head

in broad daylight while unarmed.......

The story is slowly being leaked out.
A dozen witnesses’ say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/

OK, we can't have selective enforcement of board rules. Stop the trolling remarks, cook. Consider this a warning.

Being angry clouds judgement, and that's what I think we are seeing. After MLK's assassination many cities were burning. We can just hope that the anger stops soon there.

Black Minister Point of View

My apologies for joining this thread late. This video might give a different point of view.

Good stuff, MC. Lots of perspective there.

When are people like Al Sharpton going to get arrested for incitement to hatred?

People like him are far more dangerous than guns.

Well written

Years ago their was a fight between some black and some Irish in Gerritsen Beach here in Brooklyn.

Next day Al Sharpton shows up with 5 bus loads of agitators. It a very small area with a few soccer fields and baseball diamonds. They just walked around the place was deserted. So they left and found their way to Marine park.

They had some soft ball equipment and started to play soft ball. Hoping the white people will start with them. It is mostly a white area I lived there before I bought my other house.

There were black cricket players and their families that started to come here to play. Because there was too much crime in the park they used to play in. We all know why they played at Marine park. We could appreciate their crime problem where they live.

Now sharptons crew did not know that, and they did not know people in Marine park like to mind their own business.

Then no action so Sharpton and his people go to King Plaza next looking for more trouble. I asked Sharpton before he left who won the game

Then I saw him walking inking Plaza I said al nice sweat suit.

Years ago their was a fight between some black and some Irish in Gerritsen Beach here in Brooklyn.

Next day Al Sharpton shows up with 5 bus loads of agitators. It a very small area with a few soccer fields and baseball diamonds. They just walked around the place was deserted. So they left and found their way to Marine park.

They had some soft ball equipment and started to play soft ball. Hoping the white people will start with them. It is mostly a white area I lived there before I bought my other house.

There were black cricket players and their families that started to come here to play. Because there was too much crime in the park they used to play in. We all know why they played at Marine park. We could appreciate their crime problem where they live.

Now sharptons crew did not know that, and they did not know people in Marine park like to mind their own business.

Then no action so Sharpton and his people go to King Plaza next looking for more trouble. I asked Sharpton before he left who won the game

Then I saw him walking inking Plaza I said al nice sweat suit.

Evidently Bill Cosby posted this at some point in time have no clue when. Sometimes people send me stuff I have no clue when it happened or even if he said it.

Let me know if he really said it?

They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.
I can't even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain't,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be...
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
And then I heard the father talk.
Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.
In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.
The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?
And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.
Where were you when he was 2?
Where were you when he was 12?
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol?
And where is the father? Or who is his father?
People putting their clothes on backward:
Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?
What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa .....

I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.
I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands . The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop, already! ! !
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ......... And all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.
We have millionaire football players who cannot read.
We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.
Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard..
We cannot blame the white people any longer.'

~Dr.. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed..D.

Not so much as a mousefart is heard when white people are murdered by black people in racially motivated crimes though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...rack-Obama.html

I also remember being called a derogatory name by a black person when I was last in New York but I laughed it off.

I imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, Al Sharpton would be campaigning for justice against me.

This has been a 360 degree screw up:

Any professional police department recognizes that, when a white officer kills an unarmed black teenager, they need to immediately communicate fully and transparently. Otherwise they cede control of communication to the rumor mill--a surefire way to precipitate disturbances. The Ferguson department clammed up and covered up, leaving all communication to Michael Brown's friend, who may or may not be telling the whole truth.

Then they screwed up again when they released the video of Brown's shoplifting and muscling of the store owner. It proved (not surprisingly) that he wasn't the little angel his parents and friends made him out to be. But it had nothing to do with the shooting--the police officer didn't even know about Brown's crime when the shooting took place. Idiots!

The protests began. Predictably they turned violent. Predictably, it led to looting and burning. Looking at the glee in the looters' faces, you see that the only thing Michael Brown's death meant to them was a license to steal and destroy. What do looting and burning have to do with justice?

Then the governor sent in a State Police captain who sees his job as blessing the rioters. He practically judged the cop guilty before any inquiry began. Regarding looting, he said, "Goods can be replaced, human lives can't be replaced." He might as well have flown the Goodyear Blimp over Ferguson with a blinking message: "Looters welcome--no police interference." "God bless you, Captain," they said in church. But he didn't stop the looting and destruction.

Then, predictably, Al Sharpton--the Tawana Brawley Charlatan--showed up with his usual message: All African Americans are helpless victims without me to lead them.

This is an ugly microcosm of American dysfunction. The real victims of this horror are the thousands of law-abiding citizens of Ferguson who now have fewer places to live and to shop, and who will bear the aftermath of this unnecessary, mismanaged fiasco.

^^^^

is that really michael brown on the video?

i find it hard to believe that mike brown charged through bullets like a lion or bear

And Obama thought that the police acted "stupidly" in the Harvard professor case...do as he should have done...wait for the facts..in particular the toxicology report.

Cop involved in Ferguson shooting has fractured eye socket: report

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/cop-involved-in-ferguson-shooting-has-fractured-eye-socket-report/

I'll disagree with some of your "Facts":

1. Yes, Thousands of blacks are killed by blacks yearly. Yet to say it's only publicized a fraction in the news media is 100% false. I don't know where your news source for daily information but there have and still is heavy reports on black on black crime, blacks homicides is higher than average, etc. You most likely won't hear to much about every community outreach that are proactively getting involved in the black community becase the media cares little about that and possibly your overlooking it as well. Incidents like this doesn't reflect black communities everywhere.
What's another FACT is that whites are mostly killed by whites and according to last year FBI uniform report more whites were killed than blacks, where's the report on white on white murders ?

2. Please give the link to your source on that 1/4. There's current and past incident cases that prove or at least shows the scale of actions lean towards blacks being profile more. Rioting and looting have happen in all communities before so why are you putting emphasis in the blacks?

3. & 4. That's the conflicting information. Why release this info after a couple days of the shooting instead of from the beginning? Police chief states at first he's suspected but it's not him, yet changed his statement later on. Same response to when he said that officer wasn't notified nor in the area searching for a robber suspect. Now there's more altering statement and witnesses. None of these "facts" are conclusive just your opinion.

I think until the investigation is complete, let's not jump to conclusions. And enough with these thugs label. He a thug , she a thug , they a thug, it's ridiculous. There's a difference to me between a person committed to crimes for profits (thugs) than for opportunity (hoodlums). Don't know why would anyone assume that incidence like this leads to an automatic martyr amongst us (blacks) nationwide. Geez.
Ivy, how about you visit a local black neighborhood and gets some of their viewpoints?

If the Grand Jury does not indict the Ferguson Officer today I predict that Holder will make sure the Feds indict him for violating the Civil Rights of Michael Brown. That's why he's there!

"Ivy, how about you visit a local black neighborhood and gets some of their viewpoints."

I used to do that for a lot of reasons. I coached soccer in the Central Brooklyn soccer league, and I played street soccer for fun in a Haitian area whichi was in Ave J area.

I also find myself in black Harlem from time to time.

In those areas all the younger guys wanted to have a good time playing the game we all love.

I loved those guys we had a lot of fun. Hardly any white people their because of fear white people of the area. I even took my oldest son when he was a little kid to play. They always treated us very nice.

My daughter the communist always thought I was prejudiced. She never got I am only prejudiced against bad people no mater what color they are.

Once my youngest son was jumped by 5 black guys around 16 yrs old when he was 11 they took a new bike I just bought for him. Normally I would just buy him another bike. He gave up the bike and they hit him anyway. I found out when the cops brought him home. He told me they caught two of them and were canvassing the area looking for the rest. I jumped into his police car with my son and went to the park.

Cops found 1 other one, but no bike. They passed what they steal to another guy. That is there plan just in case they get caught. They deny and they don't have what they stole anymore.

Now these guys stole from me and hurt my son. So you can safely say I was extremely prejudiced against them.

I go to the preceint we press charges. I see one go there mothers their trying to tell us their son was a good boy he was 15 so nothing was really going to happen to him. At least he and his mother thought that.

I told his mother he should have aborted her fucking son. I got a little carried away. Some other cops tried to shut me up and I told them how I feel about most cops in general. Someone might think I was also prejudiced against them.

Months later we go to court. My son can not even remember what they looked like any more. So he told the truth and they were let go.

But I remembered what they looked like, but I was not there when he was at racked and robbed. The arresting cops were in the same boat as I.

But we did manage to get some of there home addresses. One was the 15 yr old and his mother lived.

I found out some time later they both were victims of a home invasion done by some black guys. It was just more of black on black crime

right first he wasn't a robbery suspect, now he is

sounds like bullshit

I thought this was interesting found it by accident

They thought it was cool

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHZ7KX5m5vU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Dorian Johnson admits he made the whole thing up, Michael Brown attacked the cop, here's the story



http://therightscoop.com/report-key-witn...officer-wilson/

Such reporting is certainly suspect. Neither Fox, CNN, MSN, or the broadcast networks has even hinted at such.

Of course you will. For the same reason cookcounty disagrees. You guys can't look at this objectively.



6,000 blacks are killed by other blacks every year, to be more precise. A little under 100 (about 96) blacks are killed by cops every year. That means, if you're black, you're 60 times more likely to be shot by another black than by a white cop. And no honest person can deny that all the black-on-black crime doesn't get the same attention from the media and black community that a single incident of a white cop shooting a black suspect does. Anyone who claims otherwise doesn't watch the news or is simply lying.



Michael Medved quoted it on his show earlier this week. And he doesn't make stats up. If blacks are profiled more, have you ever asked yourself why that is? No, because you're incapable of doing that. You appear to have the same knee-jerk reaction that those in Missouri have had, i.e. you completely ignore or at least minimize Brown's criminal behavior (which is so rampant in the black community) and immediately blame the white cop. And where else does rioting and looting happen like we see in the black community when they don't like something? Where?



Sorry to burst your and cookcounty's hopes but, as the links posted above show (and which you probably ignored), more witnesses are saying Brown attacked the officer and the officer had a broken eye socket.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/
http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/cop-involved-in-ferguson-shooting-has-fractured-eye-socket-report/



I think enough has come out, and is still coming out, to give us a pretty good idea of what happened. You just wish it were something else. And why would I assume that guys like this are made into martyrs by many blacks? Hmmm. Have you been watching the news? Or does OJ Simpson or Treyvon Martin ring a bell?



Why? So I could get the same unobjective, delusional opinions that you have cookcounty have?

IvyLeague hitting the nail on the head again.

What's suspect is why anyone would listen to the guy since he was there during the strong-arm robbery. How much credibility is he going to have? Not exactly a trustworthy, pillar of the community.

Again, the nation has been Sharptonized but backed up by Obama and the esteemed "America is a nation of cowards", Eric Holder. This sham has been going on for over 30 years..one would think the media would be wise to this dog and pony show by now...unless its a narrative that they enjoy putting forth. Either way, its shameful.

Gulf Shores Police Chief Ed Delmore wrote a blistering open letter to Captain Ronald S. Johnson, who was given command of law enforcement operations following days of looting and rioting in the city -



I have to call you out.

I don’t care what the media says. I expect them to get it wrong and they often do. But I expect you as a veteran law enforcement commander—talking about law enforcement—to get it right.

Unfortunately, you blew it. After days of rioting and looting, last Thursday you were given command of all law enforcement operations in Ferguson by Governor Jay Nixon. St. Louis County PD was out, you were in. You played to the cameras, walked with the protestors and promised a kinder, gentler response. You were a media darling. And Thursday night things were better, much better.

But Friday, under significant pressure to do so, the Ferguson Police released the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown. At the same time the Ferguson Police Chief released a video showing Brown committing a strong-arm robbery just 10 minutes before he was confronted by Officer Darren Wilson.

Many don’t like the timing of the release of the video. I don’t like that timing either. It should have been released sooner. It should have been released the moment FPD realized that Brown was the suspect.

Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your “hug-a-looter” policy had failed.

Boy did it.

And your words contributed to what happened Friday night and on into the wee hours of Saturday. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you said the following regarding the release of the video: “There was no need to release it,” Johnson said calling the reported theft and the killing entirely different events.

Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—bullshit. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown’s mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it.

Let’s consider a few examples:
On February 15, 1978 Pensacola Police Officer David Lee conducted a vehicle check. He didn’t know what the sole occupant of the vehicle had recently done, but the occupant did. Who was he? Serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy attempted to disarm Lee. Lee was able to retain his firearm and eventually took Bundy into custody.

On April 19, 1995 Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hangar stopped a vehicle for minor traffic violations. He didn’t know that 90 minutes earlier the traffic violator, Timothy McVeigh, killed 168 people with a truck bomb at the Murrah Federal Building. But McVeigh sure knew it, didn’t he? Fortunately, given his training and experience Hangar was able to take McVeigh into custody for carrying a concealed firearm. It was days later before it was determined that McVeigh was responsible for the bombing.

On May 31, 2003 then-rookie North Carolina police officer, Jeff Postell, arrested a man digging in a trash bin on a grocery store parking lot—an infraction that would rise to about the level of jaywalking. Postell didn’t know that he had just captured Eric Rudolph, the man whom years earlier had killed and injured numerous people with bombs and was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.

So now, let’s consider Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson’s stop of Michael Brown. Apparently Wilson didn’t know that Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery. But Brown did! And that Captain, is huge.

Allegedly, Brown pushed Wilson and attempted to take Wilson’s gun. We’re also being told that Officer Wilson has facial injuries suffered during the attempt by Brown to disarm him. Let’s assume for a moment those alleged acts by Brown actually occurred. Would Brown have responded violently to an officer confronting him about jaywalking? Maybe, but probably not.

Is it more likely that he would attack an officer believing that he was about to be taken into custody for a felony strong-arm robbery? Absolutely.

Officer Wilson survived the encounter with Brown as did Lee, Hangar, and Postell. Michael Brown didn’t survive and it’s too soon to say if Officer Wilson’s use of deadly force was justified and legal. You and I both know that not all officers survive such confrontations. Officers die in incidents like this Captain Johnson, including a couple that I remember from your own organization:

On April 15, 1985 Missouri Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at a checkpoint; neither Trooper Linegar nor his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a federal grand jury for involvement in a neo-Nazi group accused of murder. The suspect immediately exited the vehicle and opened fire on him with an automatic weapon.

Just a month before, Missouri Trooper James M. Froemsdorf was shot and killed—with his own gun—after making a traffic stop. When the Trooper made that stop he didn’t know that the driver was wanted on four warrants out of Texas—But again the suspect knew it.

So Captain Johnson, I guess the mindset and recently committed crimes of the suspects that murdered those Missouri Troopers didn’t mean anything. The stops by the Troopers, as you have said, are entirely different events right?

Bullshit.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

He is the police chief of the Gulf Shores Alabama police force. That has been making the rounds here locally.

If it turns out the cop is not guilty. They will give him up any way. Will holder say he was not guilty?

The New York City Left can say whatever they want about Ray Kelly. But he NEVER would have given up one of his guys the way this mutt did. And you wonder why unions fall apart.

@ivyleague


what does any of the shit you're typing have anything to do with this "one" case

you have issues with black people that you're scared to discuss in real life

go find somebody black and start your tirade right in their face

the cop riddled this kid with bullets in broad daylight.....thee end

He riddled this upstanding nice young man who just forcibly robbed a store and then attacked the officer in question. It seems you have a trouble grasping facts, and are more interested in making this into a racial issue....honestly, are you really Al Sharpton posing as "cookcounty?"

1. Guy robbed a store

2. Guy attacked a cop when confronted

3. Guy was shot and killed

I don't care if your Black, White, Blue, Green or Orange, I would expect the police to deal with you the same way. Is what happened sad and could have possibly been avoided? Yes, it's a tragic loss of life, but at the same time, don't steal things that aren't yours and this situation is avoided.

This is an excerpt; it does not help at all and injure's the public's confidence in law enforcement:

"I'm a cop. If you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me," the Washington Post headline blares. The piece was written by Sunil Dutta, a 17-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department.

"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he wrote.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/us/ferguson-column-police-reaction/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

1. Kid committed robbery.
2. Kid committed common assault.
3. Kid did not comply with officer's demands.
4. Kid is 6 ft. 4 and built like a tank. Officer is of slight build.
5. Witnesses say kid was struggling with officer for hold of gun.
6. Autopsy shows that kid was in a frontal, confrontational position when shot by officer.
7. This isn't the f***ing movies where one shot is all that is used. This is fight or flight. If someone is in a struggle for their life, they will shoot using deadly force. It's survival instinct; same as someone who is drowning dunking the head of someone who is trying to save him.
8. Kid was a gangbanger.
9. Kid's demeanor in CCTV footage suggests that this was not his first robbery.
10. Kid's demeanor when confronted by officer would have raised alarm.
11. Officer was outnumbered.

What is so hard for people like you to understand? Why does it have to always be about race? Why can't you people accept responsibility for your actions and stop increasing division among people and fostering an Us vs. Them mentality?

Blacks make up about 13% of the population.

12996 murders in the US in 2010

6942 of those murders were blacks

392 of those blacks murdered at the hands of whites

6600 of those blacks muurdered at the hands of blacks

6954 whites murdered in 2010

5337 of those whites murdred were at the hands of whites

1017 of those whites murdered were at the hands of blacks.

Again blacks make up only 13% of the population. I think you can figure the rest out.

@lalouisiana

black people don't believe he attacked the cop, and then charged through multiple bullets

black people don't trust the police because of people that act like yourself


@moe tilden

what the fuck does the country's murder stats have to do with this isolated case?

.
the police chief changed the cops alibi

when people change alibi's they're probably guilty......we all know that

Did the cops fracture his eyesocket to make his alibi more believable?

Apart from the fatal wound, none of the other shots could have incapacitated someone that was in a life or death struggle.

I do worry about the militarization of our police officers. And there over zealous tactics. Check this poor bastard.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/19/deaf-man-arrested-sign-language_n_4811785.html

I don't disagree at all, Cheech. I've had plenty to say about cops with too much power. My main problem, for the 100th time, is what happened after the fact.

There is nothing to be gained by what the looters are doing. Nothing. And half of them probably don't even know why they're rioting. They're having the time of their lives.

I do think Eric Garner deserves justice though.

Looters stealing from local business men and women and ruining future jobs for ppeople of the community is one of the most ludicrous things to come out of this. Why doesnt the media ask the "leaders" of this community and the US to speak up on this behavior of plain old stealing. There is no protest in stealing from the local liquor store.

If it ultimately comes out that this young man robbed a store beat up a clerk beat up a cop then tried to bull rush the cop again, he got what he had coming unfortunately. If a cop with a gun says stop. STOP....i mean you go to north philly, camden, new orleans, detroit st. louis....the cops are out looking to give beatings for people who cross the line a smudge. This Brown kid was on the path to prison many years before. The press showed him as some "gentle giant" oh except he got thrown out of his regular high school and was in a school for kids who could not make it in a normal setting.....sharptons and the MSM have pumped this up way more than it should ever be

100% on that one, they could have tased him or talked him down that was a crime and deserves more attention than ferguson, MO

Marijuana found in his system.

Multiple photos of him throwing gang signs.

The kid had already set foot on a very rough path.

Edit: OK it's only marijuana but come on.... the kid was no angel.

I implore everyone, both Black and White, to watch this video (special thanks to Five Felonies for sharing it).

It's 25 minutes long, and if you're sensitive to curse words or racially insensitive language, then you should probably give it a pass. But I think it's hits the nail on the head about what street smart and self-sufficient Black people think of White liberals.

http://vimeo.com/103480622

I also urge all of you to read this report: Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/mis...wn-says-source/

need this on cnn and msnbc right now

I agree. It's the best synopsis of the problem with race in this country that I've ever seen.

Thanks again to Five Felonies for sharing it with me.

Problem is the only people who will watch this and LISTEN to what is being said and then share this with others are people with open minds and not steadfast on a given side of political or social issues around the US

I'm just waiting for the Black reaction. We're sure to hear the words "self-hating" bandied about. And maybe there's some truth there. But it doesn't mean he's wrong .

Let me put it like this Ivy. I don't wont to get off track with ethnic statistics, historic ordeals, nor persistent rants. I'm getting back to my point again, Was it called for the officer to used deadly force? I know the victim was a robbery suspect and assaulted the officer , justified reaction from the officer I agree with. But if the suspect stop and give up then why did the officer continued to shoot? If the suspect gives up then throw his ass in jail/prison. He already going to get assault on officer, fleeing, etc. That's what bothering me. But I'm not going to continue this talk with someone who's opinion is made about this incident. It's not like you nor some other posters are going to wake up black tomorrow.

I'm out of this topic until the next "controversy" I guess. Peace.

Black Family your statement

But if the suspect stop and give up then why did the officer continued to shoot?

You know this happened how? There are many witnesses who say he attacked the officer.

I posted this at 6:02 AM today:

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/cop-involved-in-ferguson-shooting-has-fractured-eye-socket-report/

And I posted this yesterday at 3:49PM where it contradicts what you said:

A dozen witnesses’ say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/

The police officer's account, the 12 eyewitness accounts and Michael Brown's own accomplice's account all contradict cookcounty and blackfamily's assertions...but all these statements were probably coerced from these people, as they were tortured by the Ferguson police...at least that will be the next story that these guys will put forth.

Cops are liars and pigs and are over militarized. You know a cop is lying when he is moving his lips. OFF THE PIGS!!!!!

I haven't heard that expression in over forty years.

Cook, your Racism towards people of white skin is clouding your judgement on what really happened. You are without a doubt the most racist person on this board and I'm sure everyone here agrees.

Regardless I'm not going to be baited into an argument with you because of your "people that act like yourself" comment. I can probably receive a more intelligent conversation sitting at Carlo Gambino's grave asking him about the good old days than arguing with you.

I am saddened by the new gauge that is being used at Ferguson for what is considered peaceful:

"Ferguson remains mostly calm as Investigation Begins"

"A few gunshots rang out overnight, at least one officer was hit by a bottle and police said early on Thursday six people had been arrested, much fewer than the scores detained in the past nights of riots and looting."

http://nypost.com/2014/08/21/ferguson-remains-mostly-calm-as-investigation-begins/

LOL SC... I do this for you!

With respect to the militarization of the police, I want to make just a couple points. As far as the police wearing Army camouflage uniforms on occasion, I think this is going overboard, even for SWAT teams. I saw a video of an officer at Ferguson with an M-4 combat rifle which was painted digital camouflage pattern- Why?? Now in the Ferguson situation, the officers do need the Kevlar helmets and body armor as they are getting hit with bottles and rocks by these outstanding citizens. I also see a need for police organizations to own armored vehicles for riot situations. As far as "Machine guns" there ought to be some retained in the police armory for situations such as that California bank robbery a few years ago the robbers had machine guns and were firing them indiscriminately. I know the libs and British want police to look like bus drivers and carry water balloons to protect themselves with.

GROOVY

2-3 years ago on the campus of University of NC at Chapel Hill, the class president, Eve Carson- an attractive, brilliant white girl with a promising future was kidnapped by two young negroes who took her car and went to the ATM and took her money and then cold bloodedly murdered her. Both were sentenced to prison. It was then revealed that one of them also killed a professor (Or grad student- I'm not sure which) He just beat the second murder because the jury wanted more forensic evidence as they weren't satisfied with witness statements.
I do not recall Obama making a peep or eric holder doing a civil rights investigation into this. And they wonder why there is a bigger racial divide in this country

Kelsey Grammer's teenage sister was savaged and murdered by a gang of black people with no regard for human life.

One of the murderers, Freddie Glenn, appeals his sentence every several years speaking of his remorse and how he has changed.

Freddie Glenn's way of showing his remorse is to not accept what he did, not accept his prison sentence, appeal every 3 years and make a grieving human being go through the emotional torment of going through myriad appeals processes.

Kelsey Grammer forgave Freddie Glenn for what he did, but understandably wants him to remain behind bars for the rest of his life. Grammer and his family are serving a life sentence because his sister was taken from them. Why does Glenn think he should taste freedom?

This brings me to my overall point. Why can't black people forgive? Why the unceasing negativity and unwillingness to move on and move forward? We will never move forward as one as long as people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and to an extent, Barack Obama, keep sharpening the divide and using their influence to foster a poisonous atmosphere of dissent amongst lower income African Americans.


Oh. Freddie Glenn and his cohorts also murdered several other people during their campaign of terror.

For sure! Like, heavy man! Far out!

you know a cop is lying when the police chief changes alibi's on national television

then the police department gets removed from the case because they can't be trusted

So it's okay to try and convict a cop without a trial but not a anyone else?

In this day and age of course. Doesn't matter who you are, remember Zimmerman was guilty until this went to court and people laughed at the evidence. I'm sure the same is liable to happen here.

We had an idiot teacher in Selma at an elementary school yesterday decide the 6th grade class was going to "re-enact" this shooting (as if the teacher knew the truth) and now said teacher is on paid leave. What an idiot

Good video. Extremely rare to see such honest and accurate talk from one in the black community.



Both BlackFamily and cookcounty will ignore all the latest information because it doesn't fit with what they want to have happened. As I said, they are entirely incapable of seeing this incident for what it is. It's futile to talk to someone who doesn't want to face facts.

St. Louis Medical Examiner SLAMS Brown Family Hire
The Daily Caller
August 21, 2014


The chief medical examiner of St. Louis County, who performed the first autopsy on Michael Brown after he was shot on Aug. 9, says that she is concerned by one of the men hired by the Brown family to conduct its own exam.

“I can tell you absolutely that I find what Parcells does to be abysmal,” Dr. Mary Case told The Daily Caller when asked about Shawn Parcells, a Kansas-based forensic pathologist assistant. He has been accused in the past of fabricating his job title and of conducting autopsies without a license.

Parcells, along with Dr. Michael Baden, was hired last week by the Brown family to conduct an independent private autopsy. They did so, they said, because they did not trust local authorities to conduct a thorough investigation into Brown’s police shooting death.

The team released its results on Monday and determined that Brown was shot at least six times.

One crucial determination was the trajectory of the bullet that killed Brown. Parcells explained to TheDC earlier this week that the bullet was traveling in a back to front direction, indicating that Brown was bent over in some fashion when he was struck.

The location of Brown’s head when he was shot is sure to figure prominently in the investigation. The Brown family and many across the U.S. believe that Brown was “executed” by Ferguson, Mo. police officer Darren Wilson in broad daylight. Wilson reportedly claims he shot Brown in self-defense.

But Mary Case, along with a number of other medical examiners and pathologists have been heavily critical of Parcells.

“He is doing forensic autopsies which may send someone to prison, and he is not a physician much less a forensic pathologist,” she told TheDC, adding that forensic pathologists and medical examines throughout the U.S. “are shocked by this man and how bold he is to do what he does.”

“No one stops him,” she said.

Case said that Baden, 80, “is an excellent forensic pathologist.” At a press conference Monday, Baden said the same thing about her.

But Case claims that Baden was unaware of what she called Parcells’ “baggage.”

“Dr. Baden did not know about Parcells’ baggage or he would not have become associated with him,” Case told TheDC. “His association with Parcells is very unfortunate.”

Asked whether she is concerned that Parcells’ shortcomings are an issue in the Brown autopsy, Case said, “Of course I do.”

Parcells operates National Forensic Autopsy & Tissue Recovery Services out of Overland Park, Kan.

Forensic pathologist Dr. Erik Mitchell complained to a Kansas City news station earlier this week that Parcells is working without a license.

And Dr. Thomas Young, the former medical examiner of Jackson County, Mo., told the station that Parcells was misrepresenting himself when he said Young was his mentor. (RELATED: NONE In The Back: Brown Autopsy Shows He Was Shot In The Front Of The Body)

“He has been representing himself in a way that is not appropriate by giving forensic pathology opinions when he is not qualified to do so,” Young told the station.

Told of Case’s criticism, Parcells told TheDC, “Oh, I’m not surprised.”

“She hasn’t liked me for a really time. So, whatever. I don’t know what else to say other than that.”

Parcells told TheDC that the others who have accused him of improperly conducting exams “are just jealous.”

Parcells explained how he was hired on to help with the Brown autopsy. He said that he received an email from the Brown family attorneys last week. He told TheDC that it was his understanding that Baden was contacted separately.

Parcells told the attorneys that he would like to help with the autopsy. After Baden was brought on, Parcells said he asked if his assistance would be needed. He was told that Baden said he would be “delighted” to have Parcells’ help.

Baden, who is a well-regarded pathologist, did not hand-pick Parcells. But Parcells told TheDC that he discussed with Baden some of the complaints that have been leveled against him in the past. Parcells said Baden told him not to worry about his detractors.

Baden could not be reached for comment.

Parcells provided a mixed picture of just how much input he had on the Brown autopsy.

On the one hand, he downplayed his role; on the other, he said that Baden felt he contributed greatly to the investigation.

“He felt that I was very instrumental in the investigation and very instrumental in helping him with his analysis,” Parcells told TheDC.

But, he said, “at the end of the day, I was assisting Dr. Baden.”

At Monday’s press conference when the autopsy results were released, Parcells presented the findings to the audience. Asked why he gave the explanation and not Baden, Parcells said that Baden felt he was a more concise speaker.

The results of Case’s autopsy have not been released. The Justice Department ordered its own exam as well, but those results have not been released either.

http://news.yahoo.com/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire-172036981.html

As I've posted elsewhere, I just don't know why some Board members insist on posting these quite long news articles instead of summarizing it and then posting the article's link. It's a courtesy that precludes such a wordy article from taking up so much screen space and pushing other posts off the screen. Perhaps the reason is simply hubris.

You post that line one more time and I'm going to pm you a PDF of the entire Old Testament .

Maybe Ivy is like me and he didn't know! Hubris has nothing to do with it!

That works. However, send it as a Word document so that I can edit it.

What's the Brown family's angle? Are they more concerned with justice or making as much money from this as possible?

They are seeking to assuage their emotions; seeking justice may be one way of pursuing that. However, there is no objective definition of justice. While the justice system always produces an outcome, it does not always find truth.

National Guard was ordered Thursday to pull out of Ferguson, Mo.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...2#ixzz3B3aydNJi

Facts are fact's people . that teenager BROWN WAS SHOT SIX TIMES. he was executed... when was the last time anyone on this board has heard of a black policeman killed a white man ??? but that guy in MONTANA PUNK'S THE LOCAL AND FEDERAL AUTHORITIES ?

The NY POST ... NOW THAT'S A RESPECTABLE AND VERY CREDIBLE SOURCE .LOL

"when was the last time anyone on this board has heard of a black policeman killed a white man ???

Here is one:
http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-cop-kills-white-man-media-hide-race/

This has already been covered by anyone with a rudimentary grasp of physics and ballistics.

5 of the shots weren't incapacitating, only the fatal wound was. Tellingly, Wilson didn't fire any more shots after that. Even more tellingly, the position of the sixth and fatal shot dictates that Brown was in an offensive position (which matches witness statements).

This isn't the movies - one shot to kill. This is real life; and when people are struggling for their lives, they will fire as many bullets as necessary. It's called fight or flight.

I'm saddened that a man's life has been ruined because of propaganda and race agitation.

Yep too many think you can just shoot him in his leg, he'll hit the ground and the threat is over. Shit don't work like that...

seriously! barring a cns shot, people just don't automatically go down like the movies, especially when adrenaline is in the mix and a service pistol caliber is used. cops are trained to shoot until the threat has ceased, so let's see how the investigation ends up before we only focus on the # of times he was shot. for others who just can't get past the racial narrative, remember the life of a sheep is pretty dull!

Not to mention that it's contrary to basic firearms training to aim for such a small target. You're taught to aim for center mass when you're in a life or death situation. Period. And that's the same training you'll get whether you learn to shoot at the local gun lodge or at the police academy. Makes no difference.

You can stop a man if you shoot him in the hand if you use a 1911.






If he has his hand directly in front of his face.

Thats because you do not understand the civil rights law. Please shut up and go read something.

@ivyleauge

u don't encounter enough black people for u to have such strong opinions


@pizzaboy

the cop convicted himself when he gunned down an unarmed teenager in apartment complex


@moetilden

i'm pretty sure the first bullet through the head was incapacitating


@barry

i think two headshots is proof of execution

the people on here arguing on behalf of the the cop are "conservative"

they ain't conservative about cops gunning people down that have their hands in the air tho

they get liberal when it comes to cops and rent-a-cops killing unarmed people

Oh wow , man!

Everyone please stop reading and/or listening to the news. Especially FUX and M(isinformation)SNBC. in the immortal words of Frankie Five Angels, "Its all lies..."

Bull SHIT. There's no such fucking thing. There's due process for everyone, or for no one. Cops included.

But you're just showing your true colors. And I'm not talking about the color of your skin .

Thank you.

are u gonna go down to ferguson and protest when that pig gets indicted?

the residents in ferguson wouldn't be rioting if the cop didn't murder mike brown

the 12 witnesses didn't see a cop do nothing wrong and then go start a riot

Here we go again.....

Bullshit. The same assholes rioting are the same assholes that keep the crime rate going there and the surrounding towns. They were going to do something to break the law no matter what happened, 90% of those idiots could give a shit who Mike Brown is or was.

Cookcounty (aka Malik Shabazz) you would make Sharpton and Jackson blush with your degree of blind racism...then again, you might just have a future in the race baiting industry.

Don't feed his ego. He has no future at all.

PlayStation, Nikes and Government cheese. That's his life today. That's his life ten years from now. Unless of course some White cop shoots him dead in the street.

Hey, if that happens I wonder of schools will be open on Cook's birthday?

Yep.

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED TEMPORARILY.

Hopefully things will cool down and more level heads will return. In the meantime if you still wanna fling shit at each other go to one of the sandboxes. There are loads of fresh cat turds in them.