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JFK Killer

Posted By: fergie

JFK Killer - 11/16/13 10:09 PM

Hi all, just watched an interesting documentary on British TV alleging a secret service agent, George Hickey, in the car behind JFK accidentely shot him as he reached for his automatic rifle to return fire at Oswald - it explains the smell of gunpowder at ground level which many witnesses reported and also gives a plausible reason for the secret service to begin an initial cover up which just snowballed....there were also clear photos shown of Hickey with the weapon in his hand at the time-anybody else heard this theory?
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK Killer - 11/16/13 10:29 PM

Yes, I watched it years ago. It's just one in a long line of conspiracy memes that are entirely based on speculation. Read Vincent Buglioso's epic 1,000 page Reclaiming History about the assassination. That along with the History Channel's analysis of the assassination should dispel any doubts.
Posted By: fortunato

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 01:25 PM

Yea I have been watching documentaries about JFK all weekend long and that one just happen to be one of the ones I watched, very interesting. It's fascinating to hear everybody's theories about what happen that day.
Posted By: LittleMan

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 05:50 PM

Is there a single mob related biography, which has an explanation that is considered credible by historians? Or were they all tall tales designed to sell books?
These are all second hand accounts, but these people claimed to have heard it directly from the alleged conspirators.

Sam Giancana's brother (Chuck) claimed Sam claimed to have been involved in the murder conspiracy in his book, Double Cross.

Frank Ragano claimed Santo Trafficante confessed in Mob Lawyer.

Bill Bonanno claimed that Johnny Roselli admitted to shooting Kennedy from a sewage drain in his autobiography, Bound By Honor.

Carlos Marcello confessed his involvement in the JFK murder with an inmate, as reported by the Biography channel's Mobsters series.
Posted By: fortunato

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 06:18 PM

I asked my AP U.S history teacher what he thought about the assassination of JFK, he said that the Russian mob set up the assassination.
Hmmmm
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Yes, I watched it years ago. It's just one in a long line of conspiracy memes that are entirely based on speculation. Read Vincent Buglioso's epic 1,000 page Reclaiming History about the assassination. That along with the History Channel's analysis of the assassination should dispel any doubts.

I thought Gerald Posners book "Case Closed" for the most part was an interesting read. Similar to Bugliosi's book as it came to the same conclusion that it was Oswald and only Oswald.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 09:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
Originally Posted By: olivant
Yes, I watched it years ago. It's just one in a long line of conspiracy memes that are entirely based on speculation. Read Vincent Buglioso's epic 1,000 page Reclaiming History about the assassination. That along with the History Channel's analysis of the assassination should dispel any doubts.

I thought Gerald Posners book "Case Closed" for the most part was an interesting read. Similar to Bugliosi's book as it came to the same conclusion that it was Oswald and only Oswald.

Off topic, GC. But if you enjoy Posner's writing style (and I do, myself), then you should definitely read "Miami Babylon." It's all about the resurgence of South Beach after the mid-'80s. There's quite a bit in there about the criminal element (cocaine cowboys, Chris Paciello, money laundering, etc...), so it also doubles as a true crime book.

Here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Miami-Babylon-Weal...ds=miami+posner
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 10:07 PM

Thanks PB..i'll have to check that one out. Seems that Posner has been accused of plagiarism a couple of times and one of them had to do with his book Miami Babylon.

But personally i liked his book Case Closed. I used to be a big believer in all the JFK assassination conspiracies, but after i first read Posner's book i started thinking differently and slowly over time my thoughts on the assassination evolved into my current thinking that it was Oswald and most likely nobody else.

Just my opinion on it though.
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK Killer - 11/18/13 11:20 PM

Yes, Posner's book is not as monumental as Bugliosi's, but it effectively dispels those conspiracy notions. I need to read it again though since it's been a few years.
Posted By: bigboy

Re: JFK Killer - 11/19/13 01:12 AM

I know someone who was an FBI agent and spent a good deal of time on the JFK case so naturally saw a lot of material which the conspiracy theorists haven't seen and he feels Oswald acted alone. Don't know why people can't leave it at that.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: JFK Killer - 11/19/13 01:37 AM

Because Oswald was silenced before he could answer questions.

I wish Plaw were around to see this. He was very knowledgeable on the subject. He'd be eating this 50th anniversary stuff up.
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK Killer - 11/19/13 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Because Oswald was silenced before he could answer questions.



Oswald was in law enforcement custody from mid-afternoon on Friday until Sunday morning. He was interrogated during much of that time by the Dallas Police Department, the Dallas County Sheriff's Department, the FBI, and even a Postal Inspector.
Posted By: LittleMan

Re: JFK Killer - 11/19/13 05:13 PM

Personally, I was never overly interested about whether there was a single gunman or multiple shooters. I just assumed there were multiple shooters- albeit without solid proof.

However, I've always been fascinated in the whodunnit aspect of the murder. The Jack Ruby connection is a smoking gun for a murder conspiracy involving the mob. Why did he whack Oswald?
Posted By: MaryCas

Re: JFK Killer - 11/19/13 11:21 PM

In the book "I Heard You Paint Houses", Frank Sheerhan, alleged (confessed) assassin of Jimmy Hoffa and Joey Gallo, tells of picking up a duffle bag with rifles from Russell Bufalino, delivered to a Maryland airport to Danny Ferry. Watch Oliver Stone's "JFK", Joe Pesci is Danny Ferry.
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/19/13 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Because Oswald was silenced before he could answer questions.



Oswald was in law enforcement custody from mid-afternoon on Friday until Sunday morning. He was interrogated during much of that time by the Dallas Police Department, the Dallas County Sheriff's Department, the FBI, and even a Postal Inspector.


And not a single word of it was recorded

I never bought Oswald as the lone shooter. In fact, I'm pretty sure he didn't fire a shot at all. Regardless, you will NEVER convince me that the fatal head shot came from behind Kennedy and not the right front (grassy knoll area).

I'm actually going to the museum on Friday for the 50th anniversary. I'm looking forward to it. I've been once before but I was 10 and don't really remember too much of it.
Posted By: fergie

Re: JFK Killer - 11/20/13 12:28 AM

Another thing I find is strangely overlooked is the murder of officer tippett shortly afterwards. Firstly,how lho managed to cover over a mile in 12 mins with a revolver, without being noticed, then shoot him and then go sit in a cinema? Tippett's background is fairly murky as well as far as ive read
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: JFK Killer - 11/20/13 01:13 AM

If you want to cut to the chase: the Warren Commission’s conclusion wins by default: Kennedy probably- repeat, probably - was not the victim of a conspiracy. That conclusion wins not because it is definitive, but because it is less improbable than any of the conspiracy theories—all of which are even more flawed than the Warren Commission Report.

But, because the Warren Commission conclusion is less improbable than the conspiracy theories, doesn't make it a case-closer--not by far. Given the indecent haste of the commission’s work, the large amount of potentially significant information either deliberately withheld from the commission by the FBi and CIA, or not looked-for by the Commission, and the passage of a half century, the only reasonably credible certainty is that the case will never be closed.

Posted By: NickyEyes1

Re: JFK Killer - 11/20/13 01:39 AM

Isn't the government releasing the Kennedy files in 2020? Thought I heard that...
Posted By: fortunato

Re: JFK Killer - 11/20/13 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
Isn't the government releasing the Kennedy files in 2020? Thought I heard that...

I sure hope so I would be so interested in seeing those.
Posted By: dontomasso

Re: JFK Killer - 11/20/13 06:46 PM

The real issue is the Warren Commission did a poor job, which has opened the door to conspiracy theories. Trust is we will never know for sure.
Posted By: Frank_Nitti

Re: JFK Killer - 11/21/13 01:24 AM

The public's skepticism of the WC is arguably what spawned the movements of the 1960's--Americans just never fully trusted their gov't after that.

Too much coincidence for me. LHO, who had already attempted political assassination some months earlier, just happens to get a job at the book depository, and the Presidential motorcade just happens to change routes down that street and open the top?

No, i think Oswald was there, but was just what he said he was, a patsy. Someone else did the shooting and left the patsy to take the wrap under the guise of protection--very powerful protection which soon double crossed him.


EDIT- I DO think it's time to put to bed the grassy knoll conspiracy--watching the fatal head shot in freeze frame shows Kennedy's head move slightly forward upon impact, suggesting a rear entrance wound.
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/21/13 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Turnbull
If you want to cut to the chase: the Warren Commission’s conclusion wins by default: Kennedy probably- repeat, probably - was not the victim of a conspiracy. That conclusion wins not because it is definitive, but because it is less improbable than any of the conspiracy theories—all of which are even more flawed than the Warren Commission Report.

But, because the Warren Commission conclusion is less improbable than the conspiracy theories, doesn't make it a case-closer--not by far. Given the indecent haste of the commission’s work, the large amount of potentially significant information either deliberately withheld from the commission by the FBi and CIA, or not looked-for by the Commission, and the passage of a half century, the only reasonably credible certainty is that the case will never be closed.



The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations was formed in 1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. The Committee investigated until 1978 and issued its final report, and concluded that Kennedy was very likely assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/21/13 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: fortunato
Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
Isn't the government releasing the Kennedy files in 2020? Thought I heard that...

I sure hope so I would be so interested in seeing those.


2038. They sealed everything for 75 years from 1963.
Posted By: DE NIRO

Re: JFK Killer - 11/21/13 11:26 AM

How convenient that is, when everybody will be a long time dead..
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/21/13 06:03 PM

That's why they did it, so the people involved couldn't be prosecuted. I wouldn't be surprised if in 2038 they push it back and it becomes a generational thing.
Posted By: fergie

Re: JFK Killer - 11/21/13 11:33 PM

Name me ANY other suspect or terrorist group involved in a successful assassination who's defence was he/they were set up ("I'm a patsy"), the credit is always either accepted or denied. Sirhan Sirhan comes close, coincidently eh...
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 12:57 AM

I don't believe that Oswald did it alone. I just don't see the motive even though he was nuts...

Plus like was mentioned above, Jack Ruby didn't kill him out of love of his country and JFK. He was sent like Rocco was to kill Hyman Roth. It was either do it or you die a horrible death. I do think the mob was in on it, and possibly our own government as well. Too much cover up is why I think the government was in on it. Jack Ruby was a connected strip club owner (or ran one), so I just don't see why he thought he would go down and shoot Oswald because he was mad JFK was gone. He was involved with about every known crook that ran around that area including Marcello and Chicago as well. Wouldn't be surprised if the Dixie Mafia was not involved with him either.
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 01:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
EDIT- I DO think it's time to put to bed the grassy knoll conspiracy--watching the fatal head shot in freeze frame shows Kennedy's head move slightly forward upon impact, suggesting a rear entrance wound.


I can agree with that. There could have been another shooter, but he wasn't on the grass knoll. I agree as well the shot/s came from behind him. It's crazy how his head exploded like a melon, it was a good shot no matter how many tries one had. To get off that many shots and score a head shot with open sights is pretty amazing regardless.
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 01:25 AM

People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Irishman12
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
If you want to cut to the chase: the Warren Commission’s conclusion wins by default: Kennedy probably- repeat, probably - was not the victim of a conspiracy. That conclusion wins not because it is definitive, but because it is less improbable than any of the conspiracy theories—all of which are even more flawed than the Warren Commission Report.

But, because the Warren Commission conclusion is less improbable than the conspiracy theories, doesn't make it a case-closer--not by far. Given the indecent haste of the commission’s work, the large amount of potentially significant information either deliberately withheld from the commission by the FBi and CIA, or not looked-for by the Commission, and the passage of a half century, the only reasonably credible certainty is that the case will never be closed.



The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations was formed in 1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. The Committee investigated until 1978 and issued its final report, and concluded that Kennedy was very likely assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.
The HSCA hearings were pretty much a joke,and actually did nothing to discredit the Warren report.The Committee found that JFK was probably killed as part of a conspiracy,but that said conspiracy was not the work of the Soviets,Castro,Anti-Castro Cubans, the Mafia,the CIA,the FBI,the Secret Service,or any other person or group.
It also says that (based on a Dictabelt recording from a Dallas Motorcycle cop's recorder that has since been thoroughly discredited),four shots were probably fired ,including at least one from the Grassy Knoll. So basically,the official conclusion is that ,yes,there was a conspiracy,but it didn't really involve anyone,and that yes,there was a fourth shot,but maybe there wasn't,we're not sure.
If anything,that dog and pony show strongly reinforced the fact that Oswald was the lone shooter.
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 02:22 AM

Lou i thought the dictabelt acoustics were proven to be wrong...that the motorcycle actually wasn't where it needed to be. Something like that. Am i remembering that incorrectly?
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 03:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
Lou i thought the dictabelt acoustics were proven to be wrong...that the motorcycle actually wasn't where it needed to be. Something like that. Am i remembering that incorrectly?
Here's a pretty good analysis of the Dictabelt controversy
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 03:29 AM

Cool...thanks Lou.

I tell you this stuff gets confusing trying to seperate the true facts from stuff that has been repeated so often people think it is a fact when it really isn't.

Every time one theory gets shot down these guys come up with another one. It's a real cottage industry with some of these so called assassination experts.
Posted By: LaLouisiane

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 03:59 PM

ALL HAIL CARLOS!!!!
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
Cool...thanks Lou.

I tell you this stuff gets confusing trying to seperate the true facts from stuff that has been repeated so often people think it is a fact when it really isn't.

Every time one theory gets shot down these guys come up with another one. It's a real cottage industry with some of these so called assassination experts.
It can be really overwhelming trying to sort out the huge volume of info about the assassination. In the Information Age there is more than enough info available for an objective person to decide the most credible scenario. The key for me has been EVIDENCE ,but this is where it gets crazy. For example,we have physical EVIDENCE in the form of Oswald's palm print on the rifle. The Conspiracy Theorists have countered that with SPECULATION that the print was planted,the most common scenario being at the funeral home where presumably the print was transferred from Oswald's cold dead hand,onto the rifle by "someone". This scenario was given credibility by the funeral director Paul Groody,who although didn't actually see it,believes that it happened when the "someone"went unaccompanied into the room where Oswald's corpse was.

Fair enough,maybe there could be something to it,right?
Well, when I read other statements made by Groody,I found an interesting tidbit. When Oswald's body was exhumed,Groody actually stated that in his opinion,the casket and vault had been tampered with and that the head was detached from the body,and most shocking of all,it wasn't even Oswald's head.
So in my opinion,anything that Groody said is extremely suspect,so in this case,as far as the print on the rifle,EVIDENCE-1,SPECULATION-0.

You can judge for yourself by Googling Oswald's head,or Paul Groody,or whatever. Look at both sides and make the call.

The bottom line is that based on EVIDENCE,I believe that LHO was the only shooter,and acted alone. Therefore I don't waste any time looking at information involving the Mafia,Cia,Castro,or anyone else.


Posted By: goombah

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: fergie
Hi all, just watched an interesting documentary on British TV alleging a secret service agent, George Hickey, in the car behind JFK accidentely shot him as he reached for his automatic rifle to return fire at Oswald - it explains the smell of gunpowder at ground level which many witnesses reported and also gives a plausible reason for the secret service to begin an initial cover up which just snowballed....there were also clear photos shown of Hickey with the weapon in his hand at the time-anybody else heard this theory?


I saw this documentary as well. It is based on a newer book called "JFK: The Smoking Gun." It seems plausible, but I read a couple of sites that said that this conspiracy theory was debunked many years ago.

As Turnbull said, the Warren Commission didn't answer the question of JFK's murder definitively. Thus it opened up the door to various conspiracy theories. Thank goodness for Abraham Zupruder's film, which was hidden from the public for a few years after the assassination.

All of the theories have holes in them. I always felt that it was the CIA was behind Kennedy's execution. Kennedy was planning to shut down the CIA and had attempted to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro in the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion. The CIA and the U.S. military wanted Kennedy to fight in Vietnam and Cuba, but the President did not want to commit large scale U.S. troops. Although he would have had the nation's support because of the nuclear thread, JFK did not even invade Cuba during the Missile Crisis in Oct. 1962.

For me, the doubt will always remain for one reason unless documentation is released proving otherwise. Why did Kennedy's brain disappear? It would have conclusively demonstrated the trajectory of the fatal shot and, in my opinion, probably disproved the claim that Oswald was the lone gunman. While I do believe that Oswald fired the shot that went into Kennedy's throat and into Connally, but I think it was another shooter that fired the shot that mortally wounded JFK.
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 05:13 PM

Just watched that "JFK: The Smoking Gun" the other day. I heard about the theory about Hickey accidently shooting JFK with his AR15 before but it was still an interesting show even though i didn't agree with it.

There are other people who say the driver of JFK's limo turned around and shot him with a handgun. I swear everyone in Dealy Plaza has been accused by someone of being in on the plot.

A popular conspiracy theory these days seems to be that LBJ had JFK killed so that he could become president....which i think is crazy but some people do believe it.

But personally i still think it was just that commie lover Oswald by himself. But who knows.
Posted By: fergie

Re: JFK Killer - 11/22/13 11:48 PM

Well...I reckon LHO was ordered to meet his handler at the theatre after the assasination and the plan was for Officer Tippett to kill him before he reached there and it'd all be neat and tidy. Tippett, by all eye witness testimonies, was extremely anxious looking and acting very strangely before hand-barging into a music shop, asking to use the phone then leaving very quickly after getting no answer-he was well off his normal beat as well. LHO shot him, possibly in self defence, and, in panic, carried on with the plan to meet his handler who obv had no intention of being there. Only government depts could set that up-they then couldn't get to LHO when the local PD caught him(which wasn't in the plan) and used their mafia contacts to kill him within the PD-they gave Ruby the "offer he couldn't refuse" who said as much in testimony just before he died. None of that is far fetched....

Who shot JFK? LHO probably fired at least one shot, otherwise he'd have no real reason to panic, shoot a cop and still go to meet someone in the theatre(he wasn't there to watch a movie!) but I reckon government depts always had the final kill shots planned and LHO was, to some extent, the Patsy.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 01:26 AM

After seeing the re-enactment by the sniper/ballistics expert who tried to get off the 3 shots in the amount of time that Oswald did, and with the same accuracy, he concluded that it was virtually impossible, and it was certainly convincing.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 03:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
After seeing the re-enactment by the sniper/ballistics expert who tried to get off the 3 shots in the amount of time that Oswald did, and with the same accuracy, he concluded that it was virtually impossible, and it was certainly convincing.
Not sure which re-enactment you are referring to,but there have been several attempts to re-create Oswald's feat. An FBI agent,a television special on Discovery,a few independent investigators,and others have all shown that not only was it possible,but it was actually probable.The discrepancy seems to lie in an initial estimate of the alloted time based on the frame rate of the Zapruder film. The error is in assuming the timing of the missed shot. No one knows if Oswald missed with the first shot,or the third shot.What is undisputed,based on the video,is that the two shots which we see strike Kennedy could easily have been fired in the time shown on the Zapruder film. The other shot is irrelevant because Oswald could have missed with his first shot or could have fired a third shot after the head shot,and missed with that one.
Since no one knows when the third bullet was fired,there is no way to speculate on the timing of anything other than the two undisputed shots that we see.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 03:44 AM

I watched one re-enactment the other night, and I honestly can't remember what channel it was on, but that was the one that disputed that Oswald could not have done it.

I watched another special tonight on the History Channel, and they showed that, as you said, it could be done in the time allotted. Actually, the shooter in the re-enactment did it even less time than Oswald.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 03:51 AM

Originally Posted By: goombah
Originally Posted By: fergie
Hi all, just watched an interesting documentary on British TV alleging a secret service agent, George Hickey, in the car behind JFK accidentely shot him as he reached for his automatic rifle to return fire at Oswald - it explains the smell of gunpowder at ground level which many witnesses reported and also gives a plausible reason for the secret service to begin an initial cover up which just snowballed....there were also clear photos shown of Hickey with the weapon in his hand at the time-anybody else heard this theory?


I saw this documentary as well. It is based on a newer book called "JFK: The Smoking Gun." It seems plausible, but I read a couple of sites that said that this conspiracy theory was debunked many years ago.

As Turnbull said, the Warren Commission didn't answer the question of JFK's murder definitively. Thus it opened up the door to various conspiracy theories. Thank goodness for Abraham Zupruder's film, which was hidden from the public for a few years after the assassination.

All of the theories have holes in them. I always felt that it was the CIA was behind Kennedy's execution. Kennedy was planning to shut down the CIA and had attempted to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro in the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion. The CIA and the U.S. military wanted Kennedy to fight in Vietnam and Cuba, but the President did not want to commit large scale U.S. troops. Although he would have had the nation's support because of the nuclear thread, JFK did not even invade Cuba during the Missile Crisis in Oct. 1962.

For me, the doubt will always remain for one reason unless documentation is released proving otherwise. Why did Kennedy's brain disappear? It would have conclusively demonstrated the trajectory of the fatal shot and, in my opinion, probably disproved the claim that Oswald was the lone gunman. While I do believe that Oswald fired the shot that went into Kennedy's throat and into Connally, but I think it was another shooter that fired the shot that mortally wounded JFK.
The CIA had no reason to publicly murder Kennedy.JFK actually passed the largest CIA budget in the history of the United States,and he did it over two years after he supposedly said he would "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces",a statement that has never been proven to have even been made.

As far as Vietnam,Kennedy absolutely wanted to stay and fight,and more importantly,to win. Kennedy's opinion was that the Premier of South Vietnam didn't have the stuff to pull it off on his own,and even considered several scenarios for deposing him in favor of a more aggressive figure.In addition,when JFK announced plans to pull a thousand advisers out of Vietnam,he specifically stated that they were not to be taken out of areas that were involved in active combat. In fact the first two hundred and fifty that he pulled were in accordance with this directive.If you look at the troop deployment at the time of JFK's death,the pulling out of Nam myth is easily debunked.
Posted By: Cajunwhodat

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 04:51 AM

Hello folks I'm new here and hope its ok to comment.
Being a New Orleanian and friend to several of Carlos' (Calogero) I just think its unfortunate that no one knows the truth but yet our city and my friends family have marks on them because of speculation and a city's unfortunate encounter with a bisexual guy that was very confused with his sexuality and how the military treated him about it.The guy had some serious social dis functions and it was readily expressed directly after the incident in many of the "private " clubs around the city. Geaux Saints
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 05:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Cajunwhodat
Hello folks I'm new here and hope its ok to comment.
Being a New Orleanian and friend to several of Carlos' (Calogero) I just think its unfortunate that no one knows the truth but yet our city and my friends family have marks on them because of speculation and a city's unfortunate encounter with a bisexual guy that was very confused with his sexuality and how the military treated him about it.The guy had some serious social dis functions and it was readily expressed directly after the incident in many of the "private " clubs around the city. Geaux Saints
Welcome to the boards Cajun. I agree that because of unfounded speculation and complete disregard for the actual, proven,physical evidence,a lot of people will forever be connected to a "conspiracy" that exists only in the heads of nitwits. Unsubstantiated mumblings by Marcello don't connect him to the JFK shooting,and Garrison's alcoholic ramblings resulted only in having Clay Shaw's prosecution laughed out of court in record time. And by the way,Geaux Steelers(sorry,but I had to)
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 07:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
Originally Posted By: Cajunwhodat
Hello folks I'm new here and hope its ok to comment.
Being a New Orleanian and friend to several of Carlos' (Calogero) I just think its unfortunate that no one knows the truth but yet our city and my friends family have marks on them because of speculation and a city's unfortunate encounter with a bisexual guy that was very confused with his sexuality and how the military treated him about it.The guy had some serious social dis functions and it was readily expressed directly after the incident in many of the "private " clubs around the city. Geaux Saints
Unsubstantiated mumblings by Marcello don't connect him to the JFK shooting,and Garrison's alcoholic ramblings resulted only in having Clay Shaw's prosecution laughed out of court in record time.


And dont forget Loran Hall,Trafficantes ex-cellmate.IN the late 70's or early 80's he told a reporter that the only two people still alive,that knew what happend,were him and Trafficante.Also Hall did say he was not in Dallas on November 22.He was in Dallas 6 or 7 times previously during 1963. He was there during the end of September and came back again in October. He had picked up a trailer full of rifles in California from Clint Wheat. He left the rifles with oil geologist Lester Logue in Dallas then proceded on to Miami.
According to Jerry Hemming,Hall met with Lee Harvey Oswald in Texas while en route to Florida prior to the John Kennedy assassination.There are also rumours that Hall was connected to the CIA.Also the testimony of Gerry Patrick Hemming is confirming some of these stuff.

Also Oswald and his family had lifelong connections with Marcello,including David Ferrie,Oswald's Uncle Dutz Murret, and Guy Banister,who was also working for Marcello.

During his arrest you can hear Oswald saying "Im just a patsy".After that Oswald was silenced by Ruby right?!Jack Ruby had connections to many Chicago mob figures.He visited Barney Baker and Irwin Weiner in the months before the assassination suggest that Giancana might have been also involved in the conspiracy as well.

Also Trafficante's confession of his involvement to Frank Ragano.There are many interviews with Frank's wife Nancy and son Chris,confirming the same stuff.

Santo Trafficante had connections to John Martino,who calimed that he knew about the plot before it happend.In 1975 he told Newsday reporter John Cummings about his involvement in the JFK murder, serving as a courier, delivering money, etc. He told a similar story to his business partner Fred Claasen that same year, as recounted in Tony Summer's book Conspiracy:

"The anti-Castro people put Oswald together. Oswald didn't know who he was working for--he was just ignorant of who was really putting him together. Oswald was to meet his contact at the Texas Theatre. They were to meet Oswald in the theatre, and get him out of the country, then eliminate him. Oswald made a mistake...There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."


Also the case of David Morales.

James Worrell told the Warren Commission that he heard four shots.He said that he was standing at the corner of Houston & Elm st directly in front of the TSDB at the time of the shooting.Also as he ran north on Houston St he claimed that he saw some other guy,not Oswald,run out the rear door of the TSBD building.

Dont know how much of these infos are true and im not saying that the mob did it because really theres no hard evidence,but please dont throw away the possibilty of mob involvement
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.


There's no way he could have done that shooting (or at least alone). The Zapruder film shows that the shooting only took 5.6 seconds (for all "3" shots). You try doing that with the recycling of that rifle that he had in 5.6 seconds. The FBI's sharpshooter's tried and couldn't match it. Not to mention the first shot would have been the best (since no one knew where he was) but with Kennedy the 3rd shot was the best. And finally, you really buy the magic bullet theory? That 1 bullet made 7 wounds on both Kennedy and Connally? No way!
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 02:23 PM

The reason that people continue to suggest Mob involvement in the JFK killing is that they are willing to accept a standard of proof that would be unacceptably low in any other situation.

"so and so knew someone" proves that so and so knew someone,and nothing more."This one told that one and it was confirmed by the other one",is not evidence.

How is it possible that a guy spills the beans on the crime of the century to a Newsday reporter,yet he is not arrested as an accessory,not questioned by any law enforcement agency,and in fact,is not even taken seriously?
The possibility that the guy is full of more sh*t than a Christmas turkey comes to mind.

Time after time,what we get is second and third party recollections made by people with an agenda,whether it be to plug their book,or to promote their TV appearance circuit,or just to get some attention.

Ruby was sent to silence Oswald? Then who was going to silence Ruby? Early on,Ruby made "mysterious" allusions to a plot. What is not publicized are the statements that Ruby made before he died,years later,in which he admits that he was acting on his own and just wanted to kill the guy who killed his idol,JFK. If he had any kind of real info,he could have testified,gotten protection, and spent the rest of his life in relative comfort instead of dying alone in a cell,(actually a hospital)ravaged by cancer.
Or if you believe that "The Mob" could have still gotten to Ruby,why would they let him live for years after killing LHO,thereby exposing themselves to the risk of him snitching at any time.
If Ruby had anything to reveal,he could have executed a detailed statement containing real facts and evidence to his lawyer,or a trusted friend, to be made public after his death.

Was there a possibility that the Mob killed JFK? Yes,provided that the only standard of acceptable proof is rumor,innuendo,and speculation.Once you bring EVIDENCE of any kind, whether it be physical,direct eyewitness testimony,incriminating documents,etc.into the equation,The possibility falls to near zero.
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
Was there a possibility that the Mob killed JFK? Yes,provided that the only standard of acceptable proof is rumor,innuendo,and speculation.Once you bring EVIDENCE of any kind, whether it be physical,direct eyewitness testimony,incriminating documents,etc.into the equation,The possibility falls to near zero.


Agreed. The mob didn't have the muscle to change the parade route, make a mess of the autopsy/investigation. Had to come from the government IMO. And again, as someone previously alluded to, his brain is missing. How when you're about to make it public to investigate does the President's brain just go missing? Not buying it at all!
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Irishman12
Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.


There's no way he could have done that shooting (or at least alone). The Zapruder film shows that the shooting only took 5.6 seconds (for all "3" shots). You try doing that with the recycling of that rifle that he had in 5.6 seconds. The FBI's sharpshooter's tried and couldn't match it. Not to mention the first shot would have been the best (since no one knew where he was) but with Kennedy the 3rd shot was the best. And finally, you really buy the magic bullet theory? That 1 bullet made 7 wounds on both Kennedy and Connally? No way!
Where on the Zapruder film do we see the evidence of when a third bullet was fired? The two shots we can see are A)JFK with his hands at his throat,and B)the head shot. Was the third bullet fired before the "throat shot" or after the head shot. If we don't know when a third bullet was fired,how can we establish a time frame for all three?
In my opinion it is more logical that Oswald missed the first shot. He is presumably nervous, and knows he has a limited amount of time. His first shot goes too high,missing the car entirely.He overcompensates with the second shot,goes too low,and hits JFK in the base of his neck. The third shot is just right,and hits JFK in the back of the head.
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 04:37 PM

Lou, thanks for your posts. They are factual as opposed to some above that are inane. Here's a few:

Bobby Kennedy took possession of the President's brain on behalf of the Kennedy family. It is in the National Archives.

There is no physical way for a vehicle to transit from Main St. to Stemmons Freeway without hopping over one or more concrete medians. The only way to avoid such is to turn onto Houston St. and follow Elm St. to the Stemmons Freeway access route.

The President's head wound is manifestly an exit wound. Those Board members who are combat veterans know an entrance wound and an exit wound when they see them.

From your posts, many of you seem to have cursory knowledge of the events that day or of the aftermath, and little or no familiarity with Dealey Plaza or Dallas geography. Try reading Posner's Case Closed or Bugliosi's Witness to History.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Lou, thanks for your posts. They are factual as opposed to some above that are inane. Here's a few:

Bobby Kennedy took possession of the President's brain on behalf of the Kennedy family. It is in the National Archives.

There is no physical way for a vehicle to transit from Main St. to Stemmons Freeway without hopping over one or more concrete medians. The only way to avoid such is to turn onto Houston St. and follow Elm St. to the Stemmons Freeway access route.

The President's head wound is manifestly an exit wound. Those Board members who are combat veterans know an entrance wound and an exit wound when they see them.

From your posts, many of you seem to have cursory knowledge of the events that day or of the aftermath, and little or no familiarity with Dealey Plaza or Dallas geography. Try reading Posner's Case Closed or Bugliosi's Witness to History.
Thanks,Olivant. May I also suggest what I believe to be the definitive work on the JFK case,Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. This is a massive (1600 page)read,but I don't believe I've ever seen a more thoroughly researched,unbiased,and agenda free source. For those who haven't read it,pick it up on the cheap at Half-Price or other discount book joint,read it at your leisure and make your own call.
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 05:34 PM

[/quote] Thanks,Olivant. May I also suggest what I believe to be the definitive work on the JFK case,Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. This is a massive (1600 page)read,but I don't believe I've ever seen a more thoroughly researched,unbiased,and agenda free source. For those who haven't read it,pick it up on the cheap at Half-Price or other discount book joint,read it at your leisure and make your own call. [/quote]

Yes, I mistitled Bugliosi's work in my post. I plan to reread it over the holiday.
Posted By: LittleMan

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 08:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Toodoped

And dont forget Loran Hall,Trafficantes ex-cellmate.IN the late 70's or early 80's he told a reporter that the only two people still alive,that knew what happend,were him and Trafficante.Also Hall did say he was not in Dallas on November 22.He was in Dallas 6 or 7 times previously during 1963. He was there during the end of September and came back again in October. He had picked up a trailer full of rifles in California from Clint Wheat. He left the rifles with oil geologist Lester Logue in Dallas then proceded on to Miami.
According to Jerry Hemming,Hall met with Lee Harvey Oswald in Texas while en route to Florida prior to the John Kennedy assassination.There are also rumours that Hall was connected to the CIA.Also the testimony of Gerry Patrick Hemming is confirming some of these stuff.

Also Oswald and his family had lifelong connections with Marcello,including David Ferrie,Oswald's Uncle Dutz Murret, and Guy Banister,who was also working for Marcello.

During his arrest you can hear Oswald saying "Im just a patsy".After that Oswald was silenced by Ruby right?!Jack Ruby had connections to many Chicago mob figures.He visited Barney Baker and Irwin Weiner in the months before the assassination suggest that Giancana might have been also involved in the conspiracy as well.

Also Trafficante's confession of his involvement to Frank Ragano.There are many interviews with Frank's wife Nancy and son Chris,confirming the same stuff.

Santo Trafficante had connections to John Martino,who calimed that he knew about the plot before it happend.In 1975 he told Newsday reporter John Cummings about his involvement in the JFK murder, serving as a courier, delivering money, etc. He told a similar story to his business partner Fred Claasen that same year, as recounted in Tony Summer's book Conspiracy:

"The anti-Castro people put Oswald together. Oswald didn't know who he was working for--he was just ignorant of who was really putting him together. Oswald was to meet his contact at the Texas Theatre. They were to meet Oswald in the theatre, and get him out of the country, then eliminate him. Oswald made a mistake...There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."


Also the case of David Morales.

James Worrell told the Warren Commission that he heard four shots.He said that he was standing at the corner of Houston & Elm st directly in front of the TSDB at the time of the shooting.Also as he ran north on Houston St he claimed that he saw some other guy,not Oswald,run out the rear door of the TSBD building.

Dont know how much of these infos are true and im not saying that the mob did it because really theres no hard evidence,but please dont throw away the possibilty of mob involvement


I agree.

I'm actually very surprised that respected board members are skeptical of mob involvement.
Posted By: Cajunwhodat

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 08:30 PM

Coming from a guy who just shot 6 ducks this morning and has a deer roast in the crock pot and was also in the military the frontal shot that blew his brains on the trunk was the fatal one and dat didn't come from the TSBD.So obviously there was another shooter which has everyone pointing in as many directions as the "mystery bullet" and I promise no answers are coming out of NOLA.I am personal friends with some of the descendants of Carlos and wish it would just go away.I am quite sure the Hoffa,Harrelson and Trafficante family feel the same way.Hell I cleaned Carlos ducks haha birthday buddy's great lil ole fella and his family are all great!!!!!
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 09:03 PM

Back than the Warren Commission didnt know about the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro and maybe that is one of the reasons that the investigation didnt go well.The Warren Commission had full power to conduct its own independent investigation,but didnt do shit.My opinion is that the Warren Commission did not use its own investigators,it was a pure cover-up.

In 1975 Republican Senator Richard Schweiker,member of the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence said that they knew about Oswald having intelligence connections.In 1978,during a recess of the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations,CIA director Richard Helms said that no one would ever know who or what Lee Harvey Oswald represented.


Oswald acted alone and Ruby retaliated because Oswald killed his idol?!?!?Common pls...
Posted By: LittleMan

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 09:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Toodoped

Oswald acted alone and Ruby retaliated because Oswald killed his idol?!?!?Common pls...


I always figured Ruby was ordered by his mob connections (Marcello family) to whack Oswald. Is there another theory on why Ruby killed Oswald that makes sense?
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: LittleMan
Originally Posted By: Toodoped

Oswald acted alone and Ruby retaliated because Oswald killed his idol?!?!?Common pls...


I always figured Ruby was ordered by his mob connections (Marcello family) to whack Oswald. Is there another theory on why Ruby killed Oswald that makes sense?


I gotta admit that Ruby is one of the biggest reasons for linking O.C. with the assasination.The other theory is what i stated above,wich i think its crazy,that Ruby thought was doing the American people a great deed by killing Oswald.
Posted By: Cajunwhodat

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 10:39 PM

Ruby was getting strippers from traffypoo once they were on the powder hot lil ones from Tampa and West palm.They were pretty tight them 2.
Posted By: Cajunwhodat

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 10:43 PM

Speaking of strip clubs my close brothas the bass brothers are opening new club in jersey in one week.Its called BabesNOLA 1137 bored town rd Burlington bringing some hot ladies from. Marcello country better known as the matranga fam
Posted By: Cajunwhodat

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 10:48 PM

Bordentown road
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/23/13 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
Originally Posted By: Irishman12
Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.


There's no way he could have done that shooting (or at least alone). The Zapruder film shows that the shooting only took 5.6 seconds (for all "3" shots). You try doing that with the recycling of that rifle that he had in 5.6 seconds. The FBI's sharpshooter's tried and couldn't match it. Not to mention the first shot would have been the best (since no one knew where he was) but with Kennedy the 3rd shot was the best. And finally, you really buy the magic bullet theory? That 1 bullet made 7 wounds on both Kennedy and Connally? No way!
Where on the Zapruder film do we see the evidence of when a third bullet was fired? The two shots we can see are A)JFK with his hands at his throat,and B)the head shot. Was the third bullet fired before the "throat shot" or after the head shot. If we don't know when a third bullet was fired,how can we establish a time frame for all three?
In my opinion it is more logical that Oswald missed the first shot. He is presumably nervous, and knows he has a limited amount of time. His first shot goes too high,missing the car entirely.He overcompensates with the second shot,goes too low,and hits JFK in the base of his neck. The third shot is just right,and hits JFK in the back of the head.


As you said, Oswald missed with the first shot. I forgot the exact frame number but before Kennedy is initially hit, he stops waving to the crowd due to hearing the first gun shot (which missed).

Also, what I forgot to mention about the Zupruder film is shots 2 and 3 are almost on top of each other in terms of the timing. Couldn't be done in the amount of time it took the Carcano to recycle.
Posted By: ht2

Re: JFK Killer - 11/24/13 12:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Irishman12


Also, what I forgot to mention about the Zupruder film is shots 2 and 3 are almost on top of each other in terms of the timing. Couldn't be done in the amount of time it took the Carcano to recycle.


The Zupruder film has no audio. How can you tell timing with no sound?
Posted By: Irishman12

Re: JFK Killer - 11/24/13 12:34 AM

Kennedy is struck both times, once in the throat and the other in the head.
Posted By: ht2

Re: JFK Killer - 11/24/13 12:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Irishman12
Kennedy is struck both times, once in the throat and the other in the head.


There was about 5 to 6 seconds between each. Definitely possible.
Posted By: Lou_Para

JFK killing - A Final Word - 11/24/13 02:07 AM

To all the posters who got in on the JFK discussions,let me say thanks. I knew that because of the 50th anniversary we would probably see a lot of activity, vastly differing viewpoints,and some interesting perspectives.This was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had since I joined this Forum.
As always,so many rose to the occasion and made for a great time.
Allow me to pass on two of the sources that I have made great use of in shaping my opinion of what happened on that momentous day.
For the record,I am a Lone Gunman advocate. I say that not to stir anything up,but to make an honest disclosure and provide some info that helped me to come to that conclusion.

First is http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
There is a lot of info on here and it will keep you busy for a while,but it's free,and is a great jumping off point.

Second is the book "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi
This is a 1600 page book that documents the most exhaustive,well researched look into the assassination itself as well as a multitude of collateral topics,and discussions of alternate theories.
It was costly when it came out,but you can get it at pretty much any discount book source.
The bright side is if you feel it is complete BS,you can always hollow the book out and use it as a spare bedroom.(OK it's not THAT big,but it is fairly hefty).
I don't claim that either of these is the undeniable,chiseled in stone truth,but they certainly have a place in any serious inquiry,regardless of one's stance.
Anyway,I'll leave you with these two suggestions,and retire from any more posts on the assassination.
Once again,thanks to everyone for a great posting give-and-take.
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 11/24/13 03:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para


Second is the book "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi
This is a 1600 page book that documents the most exhaustive,well researched look into the assassination itself as well as a multitude of collateral topics,and discussions of alternate theories.
It was costly when it came out,but you can get it at pretty much any discount book source.
The bright side is if you feel it is complete BS,you can always hollow the book out and use it as a spare bedroom.(OK it's not THAT big,but it is fairly hefty).
I don't claim that either of these is the undeniable,chiseled in stone truth,but they certainly have a place in any serious inquiry,regardless of one's stance.
Anyway,I'll leave you with these two suggestions,and retire from any more posts on the assassination.
Once again,thanks to everyone for a great posting give-and-take.

I second this recommendation. Bugliosi's work refutes all of the conspiracy theories. I also recommend Gerald Posner's Case Closed.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 11/24/13 09:13 AM

Originally Posted By: olivant

I second this recommendation. Bugliosi's work refutes all of the conspiracy theories. I also recommend Gerald Posner's Case Closed.


I don´t mean to be a jerk but....I fully agree with this quote:

"The number of authors both pro and anti-conspiracy whose books upon scrutiny reveal inconsistencies puzzles me. The majority of these books have been pro-conspiracy and often sensational to boost sales. The writer will usually select testimony, recollections, interviews, evidence and research that supports his or her thesis. Un-named sources provide important clues. There is a tendency to cross cite each others work. Now we have Gerald Posner's Case Closed that unmasks some of the duplicity but unfortunately does so by using the same conventions."

http://dperry1943.com/closed.html

It´s a jungle out there with both pro conspiracy and anti conspiracy thesis books. I can´t help to think that some of these books may have been written based on misleading facts, deliberately planted, just to confuse the public/hide the truth. It´s sad that after 50 years of "debating", we still don´t know for sure why the president was killed and who did it.

RIP John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: JFK Killer - 11/24/13 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.


I never said he wasn't a capable shooter and he didn't shoot a M1 that day either.

No way he fired all those shots with a cheap bolt action rifle and score those head shots. Someone else was shooting as well.
Posted By: klydon1

Re: JFK Killer - 11/25/13 04:28 PM

It was Professor Plum in the conservatory with a lead pipe.
Posted By: olivant

Re: JFK Killer - 11/26/13 02:59 AM

Originally Posted By: klydon1
It was Professor Plum in the conservatory with a lead pipe.


Finally ... finally. A theory that makes sense.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: JFK Killer - 11/26/13 03:57 AM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: klydon1
It was Professor Plum in the conservatory with a lead pipe.


Finally ... finally. A theory that makes sense.
Are you saying that this theory is a "lead pipe cinch"?
Posted By: dontomasso

Re: JFK Killer - 11/26/13 06:37 PM

It was Oliver Stone's father who had a quirky way of setting up his son to make a living.
Posted By: klydon1

Re: JFK Killer - 11/27/13 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: klydon1
It was Professor Plum in the conservatory with a lead pipe.


Finally ... finally. A theory that makes sense.
Are you saying that this theory is a "lead pipe cinch"?


smile

And Mrs. Peacock used the candlestick in the library to "illuminate" the conspiracy of Colonel Mustard and Miss Scarlet using a rope in the kitchen to "tie up" a few vague facts linking the mob to kill Kennedy before the Cubans, FBI, LBJ, CIA and a careless secret service agent could kill him in the billiard room.

A book and movie in the form of a news program will follow.
Posted By: Bennie_The_Ball

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 12/06/13 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
To all the posters who got in on the JFK discussions,let me say thanks. I knew that because of the 50th anniversary we would probably see a lot of activity, vastly differing viewpoints,and some interesting perspectives.This was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had since I joined this Forum.
As always,so many rose to the occasion and made for a great time.
Allow me to pass on two of the sources that I have made great use of in shaping my opinion of what happened on that momentous day.
For the record,I am a Lone Gunman advocate. I say that not to stir anything up,but to make an honest disclosure and provide some info that helped me to come to that conclusion.

First is http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
There is a lot of info on here and it will keep you busy for a while,but it's free,and is a great jumping off point.

Second is the book "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi
This is a 1600 page book that documents the most exhaustive,well researched look into the assassination itself as well as a multitude of collateral topics,and discussions of alternate theories.
It was costly when it came out,but you can get it at pretty much any discount book source.
The bright side is if you feel it is complete BS,you can always hollow the book out and use it as a spare bedroom.(OK it's not THAT big,but it is fairly hefty).
I don't claim that either of these is the undeniable,chiseled in stone truth,but they certainly have a place in any serious inquiry,regardless of one's stance.
Anyway,I'll leave you with these two suggestions,and retire from any more posts on the assassination.
Once again,thanks to everyone for a great posting give-and-take.


Another Final Word

http://www.ctka.net/reclaim.html
Posted By: Bennie_The_Ball

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 12/06/13 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: Lou_Para


Second is the book "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi
This is a 1600 page book that documents the most exhaustive,well researched look into the assassination itself as well as a multitude of collateral topics,and discussions of alternate theories.
It was costly when it came out,but you can get it at pretty much any discount book source.
The bright side is if you feel it is complete BS,you can always hollow the book out and use it as a spare bedroom.(OK it's not THAT big,but it is fairly hefty).
I don't claim that either of these is the undeniable,chiseled in stone truth,but they certainly have a place in any serious inquiry,regardless of one's stance.
Anyway,I'll leave you with these two suggestions,and retire from any more posts on the assassination.
Once again,thanks to everyone for a great posting give-and-take.

I second this recommendation. Bugliosi's work refutes all of the conspiracy theories. I also recommend Gerald Posner's Case Closed.


Posner is a known LIAR!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-04-01/...nd-many-others/
Posted By: dontomasso

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 12/10/13 03:52 PM

Why do all assassins use their middle names? John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray???
Posted By: klydon1

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 12/10/13 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Why do all assassins use their middle names? John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray???


And Mark David Chapman.

It's a southern thing.

And Lynette Squeaky Fromme. grin
Posted By: dgvc63

Re: JFK killing - A Final Word - 12/22/13 09:04 AM

EVIDENCE OF REVISION... mind blowing. It's available on youtube and internet archive.
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