Newtown, CT School Shooting

I am hearing of a school shooting at an elementary school in CT. Shooter is dead. Man, what the hell is going on?



TIS

Crazy, Tis. But I think it was in the office, thank God. I mean, an elementary school?

It's been confirmed that some children are among the victims. State Police have completed a search of the school building and have not found a second gunman but reports are they are still searching the area for a POSSIBLE second gunman. The first, known gunman is dead.

Thanks SC. I am just hearing an update now. They have reports of the child victims but MSNBC is not confirming. They also just said that they are being told that this shooting is much worse than being reported. Those poor little kids must be scared to death (not to mention the adults).



TIS

They are reporting that some of the parents are reporting that the Principal and others may have been the target (which is logical if they entered the office)

CNN has reported that the principal and a school psychologist have been killed. Local tv is showing live coverage and to see the parents racing to the scene (to find their own children) is absolutely heart breaking.

Apparently many of the kids were led out of the school by teachers and staff as the incident occurred. There's a firehouse a short distance away and to see the kids running towards it (without coats on) is unnerving.

To see the parents with their kids now.... they aren't letting go of each other, and many kids wearing a parent's coat is bringing tears to my eyes.

More than a dozen fatalities have been confirmed.

Turned to CNN. Thanks

I can ONLY imagine what the parents/kids are going thru. I really feel badly for the kids especially. Seeing little tots terrified is so sad.



TIS

Holy shit!! IT'S NOW BEING REPORTED THAT MORE THAN 20 HAVE BEEN KILLED.

OMG, how horrible. There is suppose to be a press conference with police in about five minutes.



TIS

The AP is now reporting 27 dead, 18 of which are kids.

SC,

I thought I heard earlier that they found several guns in the area? Do you know anything about that?

Only one time when I was working (Middle school) did we have a lockdown. Someone with a gun was reported in the area. Thankfully nobody at the school was affected BUT it IS scary that's for sure.


TIS

TIS, it was reported that the gunman had several guns.

We've got to do something. These murders will continue and they will get worse and worse. I am willing to pay any amount of property tax to support school security.

I would be concerned there's more than one shooter IF he had several guns.

Oli,

I agree, something MUST be done but will not hold my breath unfortunately.

I guess the Vice Principal called 911 (she was shot in the leg and crawled out).

TIS

The constitution has to be changed. This insanity has to stop.

My daughter is a 1st grade teacher and I hear something like this and it does make me worry. It can happen anywhere.




TIS

Praying for the families.
Tragic school shooting

some reports seem to suggest the shooter might have been a parent of a student at the school, but its still too early to tell. when i hear about these incidents, my first thought is always when the hell are ALL schools gonna have some real security? metal detectors and armed security gaurd or cop would go a long way in preventing these kinds of incidents. sadly, most schools definition of "security" is some old retired guy with maybe a radio who's sole responcibility seems to be catching kids smoking or some other meaningless crap. notice how the majority of these incidents usually occur in suburban or rural schools where security is almost non-existent. this doesn't seem to happen in say nyc, where there are police in and around every school, as well as metal detectors in alot as well.

This topic has been discussed for a few hours in the Crime and Justice thread. I'm going to try and combine the threads.

out of the 27 killed there was 18 kids.

CNN reported not to long ago allegedly by a witness that there is a second suspect that was cuffed, laying on the ground and as parents of the victims looked on, he said to them, "I didn't do it." Don't know any specifics OR if it actually happened.

With the number of guns I am really thinking there very well could be another shooter. These things have to play out and I'm sure we'll find out soon.

ALSO, CNN is reporting that total victims are likely closer to 30, mostly children. AND, that the shooter has a tie to the school, but don't know what that is exactly.


TIS

Here's a link to a short interview of a 4th grader who had been in gym class when this all broke loose. At the end, his father's reaction upon learning of how many deaths there were is gut wrenching.

INTERVIEW OF 4TH GRADER - CLICK HERE

NBC just said that the POS focused on one classroom.

Also they just reported that one of the parents of the shooter was found dead at their home in Jersey.

SC, I saw that interview with the boy & his father earlier. That little kid seemed good considering what he went thru.

I am hearing on MSNBC that one of the shooter's parents' body was found in their New Jersey home. So shooter could be from NJ?

Plus, if shooter is only 20, unlikely he was a parent of a student. Maybe a former student with a grudge??

TIS

I had heard of the New Jersey connection, too, but I don't know what to make of it.


EDIT: Just reported locally that the Hoboken Police Dept is checking out the shooter's apartment.

Hmm. Sounds like he and parents are NOT from CT? Wonder what the CT connection is then? His name is Ryan Lanza, 24 yrs. old OH< his mother was a teacher at the school?


TIS

another report i saw claimed the shooter killed his mother, who was/is a teacher at the school, and then went to the school to kill the kids in her class.

MSNBC is saying it was his father's body found. They don't know if it was his mom's classroom he was after or not.




TIS

Could this be the killer?

IS THIS THE KILLER? --- CLICK HERE

SC,

I get a "link not available". I wonder if it was blocked for legal purposes?


TIS

It's a link to his Facebook page. Do a search on Facebook for Ryan Lanza (Hoboken).

this is him...




maybe not, this is his twitter...

https://twitter.com/Fletch788/status/279668466150166528/photo/1

VERY strange!

His mom is a teacher at that school. He shot his own mother.

That was the name the news gave??? Maybe there is more than one person with that name?

Did he shoot his mother too? (I was on the phone)



TIS

They are reporting ANOTHER family member found at his home in Newton, CT but they don't know relationship.

Yeah, his mother has been confirmed as one of the victims.

Supposedly his brother was arrested a short time ago outside an apartment in Hoboken NJ.

Lanza's Facebook page has been removed. He had posted a picture of himself this past Sunday. One of his friend's remarked on the photo that "this could turn out great" or something to that effect.

My God. My hands are shaking watching this coverage. They're babies.

Something has to change. Fuck the Constitution or whatever it is that won't let us prevent these tragedies. Enough is enough .

The kids were told as they were being rescued, to "cover their eyes" as the walked past the dead/injured. How the hell do you counsel/talk to your child and get a kid that age to comprehend? That memory can NOT be erased.



TIS

I understand how important it is for the Constitution to assure us citizens the right to bear arms, but it is of equal importance for the Constitution to protect us citizens and our families. With that in mind I agree that much more stringent controls have to be placed on gun sales. If that means stepping on the rights for us to bear arms, so be it. We've already seen our rights trimmed back in the name of national security, and it's time that these rights to bear arms are curtailed as well. We all have to suffer because of a bunch of sick fucks, but that's the way it is today. Sadly, I want to see the Constitution amended.

Like my wife said, these kids were getting ready for Santa Claus. I really can't take this and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'm going out for a few drinks. Serious as a heart attack, I am. Right now.

Have a few for me, pb.

These heartbreaking events are guaranteed to to recur. Chief Justice Warren Burger, considered as a conservative and strict constructionist who was appointed as Chief Justice by Nixon, stated that the NRA's interpretation of the Second Amendment as guaranteeing an individual's right to bear arms was "one of the biggest frauds, and I repeat the word 'fraud', on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."

Another right wing jurist Robert Bork maintained that the Second Amendment guarantees states' rights to form militias, and not for individuals to bear arms.

This tragedy in CT will take a while to comprehend. It's devastating that so many people have to find a way to move foprward from here.

klydon,

Do you think the Constitution will be amended regarding the right to bear arms?

No. I don't think it has to be amended, but I think it has to be interpreted in the manner that it had been interpreted by Burger. There is relatively very little judicial opinion from the SC regsarding this Amendment.

MSNBC is NOW backtracking a bit, reporting that it could be that Ryan Lanza was not the shooter and that someone else(likely his brother) was carrying his ID.



TIS

CBS is reporting this may not be the brother that did the shooting, but the one that got taken into custody in Hoboken.

JL,

I just heard/posted the same thing on MSNBC. This story just keeps unfolding.


TIS

Yeah, apparently Adam Lanza was the shooter. Ryan, his brother, was taken into custody in Hoboken.

Yup.. I was on Ryan Lanza's Facebook page earlier before it was taken down, and it seemed quite normal up to his last post a couple of days ago.

So both brothers are arrested? Murder runs in the family?




TIS

I agree Kly. There is sufficient latitude in that amendment's interpretation without invoking the amendment process. Despite the McDonald opinion Illinois and Chicago still impose firearm restrictions and so do we here in Texas.

Adam was the shooter. I don't know of any charges against Ryan, although he was taken into custody.

The one Lanza may have nothing to do with it, but they can't take any chances until they sort it out.

My husband works in CT. He said that a little after 9:30 this morning, everyone's phone in the office started buzzing. Since so many of his coworkers live in the area, they were getting notifications of all the local school lockdowns. And then parents started panicking. He said it was awful, but he's not sure if anyone there lost anyone.

I can't imagine the anguish of the families. I heard on the radio that most of the dead children were in the shooter's mother's Kindergarten class. 5 year olds. I can't imagine.

God bless these families and watch over them, help them. I heard the President's speech, and he sounded personally heartbroken. So sad.

They said 40 per cent of gun sales require NO background check. For God's sake, is it trampling on anyone's 2nd amendment rights to do a F-ing background check? Hire & train people to do it if there's not enough. It's a start.



TIS

They just said that the guns were registered to his mother.

Reports say Ryan Lanza is in custody, but not under arrest. Apparently he is giving them information about why his brother did this.

I was reading some eye witness accounts from third graders describing the screams and chaos as hundreds of kids watched and heard their classmates being massacred. It seemed surreal the way the kids were instructed to avoid looking at the murdered and wounded children as they left the school.

This story hits you hard.

This is just disgusting, and it makes me sick to see a lot of bright futures taken away in seconds. Things have to change in this country. Either by forcing every state to have strict laws/mental tests on those who want to buy and own a handgun. The government needs to make the NRA lose more power for anything to change. Also, make it so that every school is protected.

Honestly things need to change, since July there has been like 5 mass shootings in public places.

Columbine, Aurora, Virginia Tech, the Amish school, How many more do we need to lose? The other day, there was just a shooting in an Oregon mall, and it barely got a mention on the news. Have we become so desensitized to these massacres?

Just saw the video of Ryan Lanza being taken into custody in Hoboken. Despite being handcuffed, an officer had his arm around and he looked more like a victim than another suspect.

So sad that there are people in this country that want to do tragic acts like this. You all know that I am a firm believer in 2nd amendment rights, that being said I don't know what is needed to prevent this from happening again. If a POS wants to do harm they are going to do it. People can make bombs out of household chemicals. Stricter gun laws will not stop this.

What kind of demons must be in your head to want to do this to your mother and 5 year old kids?

i'm guessing this person was probably on some kind of anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication. i'm not looking to make any sort of excuses, but it seems that when people who are crazy to begin with are put on these kinds of meds, the results can be terrible. just one of the many things that needs to be looked at.

Mig,

How do you feel about enforcing background checks on everyone buys a gun? Wouldn't that be a logical "check"?


TIS

How do we know until we try. As TIS said earlier, a huge percentage of guns can be purchased with no waiting period, no background check. Why? Who needs a gun so desperately that they can't wait a few days? If you can't wait, then you're probably up to no good.

I don't want to stop anyone from hunting or protecting themselves, but enough is enough. Obviously, this system isn't working. We need change, and we need it now. Gun-control chatter starts up after something like this, and then shuts down afterwards.

This is true. Those who follow the laws are being punished because of these POS who got there gun's from illegal means. You can't ban every gun like over in england after there tragedy in a elementary school. But, you can't give more guns out to protect our selfs. There has to be a middle ground, and what ever it is we may never really stop these tragedies.

SB,

I don't think any of us who want stricter gun laws/background checks want to stop anybody from owning a gun. It's the NRAs spin that people buy into. My immediate family weren't hunters but many of my extended family are. However, making someone "qualify" to own a gun is not out of line IMHO.

That being said, gun-clingers need not get "up in arms", I don't think anything will be done, even after this horrible tragedy.

TIS

as far as backround checks are concerned, there seems to be alot of misinformation. in all 50 states, when you go into a gun store an fbi backround check is mandatory, in all 50 states, look it up. as far as private gun sales, i'm not sure how it is everywhere but backround checks are not required for the most part as far as i know. with that said, its a felony to sell a gun to a felon knowingly, but thats a slippery slope.

as a gun owner myself, i would certainly not be opposed to backround checks as far as private gun sales are concerned. could be as simple as having both parties go to a gun store and have it done and then documented right there.

The news just said today that 40 percent of gun sales are NOT background checked. Gun shows are known for not doing background checks.




TIS

What a fucking coward
Wish I could kill that piece of shit myself

alot of spin, no matter which side you are on. as far as gun shows, rules differ alot by state, but for the most part, private sellers at the gun shows are not always required to do backround checks, but have to take down the sellers info, although the laws are changing. another misconception is gun shows are just all private sales when in reality alot of the bigger firearms manufactures/distributers have a heavy pressense and do submit backround checks.

They are now reporting that 20 children are dead.

They said this shooting was the 2nd worse of it's kind in the U.S. Was Columbine the first I assume???

THIS one is extra-heart-wrenching because the victims are little kids.




TIS

No. Va. Tech. is number #1.

Oh yea, I was trying to think back. I knew I was forgetting one.

Btw, MSNBC is saying the shooter killed himself. If they reported that, I missed it (must have been on the phone).
I assumed the police shot him.


TIS

This is so utterly sickening of a story.

I could not wait to get home and hug my little ones.

This a real good site that explains the application of federal gun purchase law, its process, backgroound checks, prohibitions, acquisition of multiple firearms, and alot more in easy to understand language.

http://us.gizmodo.com/5928889/buying-a-t...shockingly-easy

A shocking tragedy. RIP

Well, it sure sounds like it's pretty easy.



TIS

its important to note, that you still have to follow the firearms laws/restrictions of your state.

CNN just said that in the past decade, that city (I think population was about 27,000) has only had 1 murder.


TIS

here is a link to the current gun laws in conneticut for anybody interested...


http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_ct.htm

I don't care if it makes it more difficult or takes you longer to get that killing machine in your hands. There are too many dead, children, babies. Columbine, Virginia Tech, Gaby Gifford and all of those at her rally, and now this. I don't care if you're inconvenienced. Who cares? Why would it bother you if it makes it a little harder to purchase a lethal weapon? It should be harder. It should be damned difficult.

I am so tired of seeing these memorial services on the news. The candlelight vigils, the teddy bears and cards left behind. It's unprecedented. This is where your children should be safe, and they're being slaughtered.

I cannot imagine the anguish that these parents are feeling. You kiss your child goodbye, a bus drives them away and you never, ever see them alive again. No, it's too much to bear. And if you have to wait three days before you can buy a hunting rifle, then tough.

Go and stand at the graves of these babies and tell their parents that the gun laws in this country are just okie-dokie, honky dory.

God Bless the children and their families!

Knifes next?

Maybe the real problem is metal illness!


22 children, 1 adult injured in knife attack outside central China primary school
By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, December 14, 3:17 AM
BEIJING — A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.

The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located.

The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.

A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county.

A doctor at Guangshan’s hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted, but that none were seriously injured.

Neither the hospital administrator nor the doctor would give his name.

It was not clear how old the injured children were, but Chinese primary school pupils are generally 6-11 years old.

A notice posted on the Guangshan county government’s website confirmed the number of injured and said an emergency response team had been set up to investigate the attacks.

No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.

Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system’s ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness.

In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I agree background checks should be done. A more in depth one. But what if someone breaks into your house and steals weapons and uses them in a crime?

Then maybe YOU should be held accountable (for not securing a weapon good enough).

Don't know if you guys heard about or saw the interview with the teacher who locked her students in a closet/bathroom. Very emotional touching interview. She made sure she told the kids she loved them, because she didn't want the gunfire to be the last thing they heard.


TIS




http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/connecti...udents-17978970

Horrible tragedy reminds me of Dunblane

Rip to all who died except the scumbag killer

How bout restricting violent music, movies, television & video games that have become such a major part of our effed-up culture?
I'll gladly trade my sword in for a ploughshare but it takes much more.

We seriously need to stop blaming this. If we do that, then might as well get rid of religion since that cost thousands of deaths as well.

we have them locked up in gun cabinets. But what is the protol call if weapons are stolen and used in a crime?

This is what I don't understand why do we blame video games,tv,movies,music,guns? What about blaming the assholes who are committing these shootings?

This is truly horrifying. Those poor kids. My heart goes out to them and their families.

All the arguments about guns don't kill people, people do and what about knives are simply wrong, because nothing can kill people as fast as a person armed with guns. How many could he have killed with a knife before he would've been stopped?

Gun control and stricter background checks might prevent these crimes in far away future, but already too many guns have been sold to public anyway. Plus, if someone can bring themselves to go and kill kids, they probably are messed up enough to wait a couple of days to get the guns. There's not going to be an easy and effective solution for this problem.

I'm going to Sesame Place today with my grandkids. I go with a heavy heart to think of the parents and grandparents who won't get to experience these joys. I'll also be looking around wondering if some nut is going to open fire on the crowd. Jeez, what a screwed up society (and world) we live in. No love, no respect, lowered values and then we have guns to assist the nut jobs who have evil designs.

Give them a hug for me, MC.

Horrible, horrible, horrible...

When signing up on these boards, I promised my self never to talk politcs on here. But I have to say that I agree with those who say there is a serious need for a change in the constitution. I would even go as far as saying that all firearms should be banned! I may be naive, but most of us, overhere (in Europe), can´t really understand the fascination and worship of firearms many of you Americans have.

RIP all you little ones. My mind goes out to all the victims and their families.

Horrible, horrible, horrible...

That's a brilliant and heartfelt post, Hairy. You should post in the political threads more often .

Is the genie out of the bottle?
I don't think that there are significantly more mentally ill in the US than elsewhere, but there are definitely more people killed by semi-automatic handguns.
http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_j...thing-else.html

For the sake of "real" conversation on guns (which nationally I don't think will ever happen, but maybe here on the BB it will happen), I found this "rebuttle" to pro-gun arguments. It is interesting. In particular, I'm curious as to whether our legal experts (Kly, DT,Oli)agree with this particular argument.


The Constitution says I have a right to own guns.

Yes it does, but for some reason gun advocates think that the right to bear arms is the only constitutional right that is virtually without limit. You have the right to practice your religion, but not if your religion involves human sacrifice. You have the right to free speech, but you can still be prosecuted for incitement or conspiracy, and you can be sued for libel. Every right is subject to limitation when it begins to threaten others, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that even though there is an individual right to gun ownership, the government can put reasonable restrictions on that right.


http://prospect.org/article/ten-argument...zSeQz8B.twitter


TIS

I prefer to let all the facts come through before we prescript political solutions. Or counter-spinning over an outdated, ill-fitted Amendment for the 21st Century America. (Like that one banning the government from making citizens house soldiers.) I won't comment (if at all) until then. Knowing America, we'll lose interest in this story within a week in favor of Kim Kardashian's big (beautiful) ass again.

Consider that one report out there that the alleged shooter's mother legally owned those guns, but didn't leave them locked. Whether that's true or Internet BS passed off as news, we'll find out. (Hey remember when news actually investigated news and not just copy off blogs?)

But from the reports I've read, I got a broad question to ask: Why are Assault Weapons legal to buy?

That's something I just don't understand. It's one thing to buy a handgun or even a shotgun I suppose for home/self defense, but this is America. We're not Syria or Mexico where you need such hardware to protect yourself from armed bandits or rebels/government thugs. Crime has gone done in America steadidly for decades. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

My fellow BB.Neters who live in the NYC/NJ region, or any Metropolitan area for that matter, do you own one? Do you feel like you need one to feel safe from the streets? For that matter, why do rural area rednecks (who would have more a practical use for some guns than urban residents) need that much firepower to save themselves from Gophers? Jesus in East Tennessee, as damn redneck as you possibly can be, you know what the greatest local danger is? The random Meth head, the rare occassional robbery/murder. How rare? I'm sure for the Tri-Cities (where I live) to match up just the NYC area's murder rate per month, it'll take about 20 years. That might be too conservative.

President Clinton in '94 signed a 10 year ban on assault weapons, which the GOP Congress in '04 didn't renew. I had no problems with that ban. Never once have I heard a convincing argument for not renewing it.

It's one thing to accept the principle of ownership of guns, since we are stuck with that Constitutional Amendment. But it's another to believe it has no limits, which is both foolish, wreckless, and just wrong. The above poster's link is correct, it's the only Amendment that gets this treatment.

The first Amendment doesn't allow you to scream FIRE! in a movie theatre. If you falsely do and somebody gets hurt/killed, guess what? You're going to jail.

Amendments that gave the right to vote to 18 year olds and beyond, women, and black citizens are null and void when said eligible voters commit crimes which strip them of their voting rights.

The 4th Amendment, protection against unlawful search and seizure, is superceded by the Patriot Act, which is still in effect until no longer renewed. (Which is never.)

The SCOTUS ruled in Lincoln's right to suspend Habeaus Corpus, guaranteed by the 5th Amendment, during the Civil War.

And so forth.

That's the best post you've ever written, Ronnie.

Very strong point, SC. Many gun crimes can be traced back to burglars who stole guns that weren't secured, or family members and friends who knew where unsecured guns were. All shooting classes emphasize and re-emphasize responsibility as well as rights--and especially the need to keep firearms safe and secure.

Stay classy, Huckabee. You douchebag.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/mike-huckabee-school-shooting_n_2303792.html

first off, i strongly believe that every school should have at least one police officer there full time, a great first step as far as either stopping the threat outright or limiting the potential damage. there is something to be said about keeping weapons secure though, but that comes down to the individual. plently of details will come to light in the next few days, but who's to say the guy didn't tie his mother up and force her to hand over the guns? seeing as how crazy he was, thats not out of the realm of possibility.

education is also the key, so for everyone who calls to ban guns, or is in favor of more restrictive gun laws, fine you have a right to your opinion, but first educate yourselves on what the current gun laws already in place are. conneticut is far from a so called "gun friendly" state. there are waiting periods, as well as mandatory training for people who wish to own handguns. i own 2 guns, a shotgun and a .22 rifle, far from what are considered "assault weapons", although they still have the ability to cause damage. guess what, never had a single problem ever, but i also don't advertise that i own anything outside of an anynomous forum for the simple fact that not much good comes from that. its very hard to stop "crazy", and there are many different opinions on how to do so. these are just my opinions, but they are just as valid as anybody elses.

On that note:

In Tennessee since it feels like forever, the state GOP have been trying to legalize the right to carry a concealed gun into a bar.

You know, bars where people tend to overdrink and which booze has a habit of inhibiting one's logic and control over impulsive, rash decisions. Yes add guns to that environment.

Why are these people against Common Sense?

RR,

I remember hearing about that law and thought it was already in effect. You mean some sane minds might actually be thinking it over? It just blows me away that one would even consider it but I agree, wouldn't common sense tell you guns/alcohol/bars don't mix?

Also, tho I really don't know the details, I hear Gov. Synder of MI signed a bill just a day or two ago or so, allowing guns at schools.

I am not hopeful that any precautions (and God forbid restrictions) with gun laws will prevail, even after yesterday's tragedy but I also refuse the to accept that NOTHING can be done.

TIS

Re-read what I wrote. I never said anything about banning non-assault weapons. I wasn't talking about this particular news story, or that state's particular gun laws. But you're upset none the less. Not crazy, but mad regardless.

This is something gun folks love to do (and gun control people do as well), change the topic from a speciality fine point and instead talk about all guns as equal or all should be treated as such, or whatever simplified nonsense.

Again, why do people need to own assault weapons? We're not talking guns or shotguns. We're talking assault weapons. Why the need to own them? We're not having a brutal civil war like Syria, where an alleged 40,000 people have been killed so far (by a tyrant and his revolting opposition), and well local common sense dictate you get armed to save yourself. Is there a civil war up in New England I don't know about? Are those Hartford hockey fans still mad about their Whalers moving away

Besides your "education" cover defense is bull. How long have we been educating people that they shouldn't drink and drive? Yet it's still banned. How long, and with how much taxpaper money, have we told the public not to use pot or heroin and coke and meth and so forth? Yet they're still illegal. If anything I suppose assault weapons are like cigarettes. No fucking use, no reason to buy/use smokes (Pot at least arguably has the painkiller/glacoma medical cover) yet they're still legal. And people buy them.

OK people like cigarettes, they're addicted to them or enjoy smoking them. You can argue that. With assault weapons....again, why?

In general, moving away from my assault weapons rant, I'm neither for gun rights abolition or an unrestricted 2nd Amendment. I'm for common sense.

And god dammit that's truely sorely lacking in America today.

It might've. I don't tend to pay attention to state politics anymore because (1) It's depressing, (2) does that proposed measure (now law?) sound like it was written up by smart, responsible people elected by smart, responsible voters? Interestingly recently somebody named the Tennessee State Legislature the WORST in the country as the most useless.

For example, Nashville loves to pass their resolutions. 70% of all the measures they passed are resolutions, specifically non-binding resolutions. Translation: They aren't worth a bucket of warm piss, and have as much power as the Queen of England. Yup Nashville definately deserved that award.



Nothing is going to happen. Everybody is afraid of the NRA's political influence. Then again consider reading what those folks think about Obama, and they swear that ANY MINUTE he'll take their guns away. Even though he's done absolutely jack shit on the matter, they truely believe he's going to abolish the Constitution and cede power away to the United Nations or whatever nutjob conspiracy junk they always cite.

(U.N. having real power? HA! In what Twilight Zone alternate reality are we living in where that Third World soapbox has that much influence?)

Oh wait the one thing they hate about Obama was those gun stings he's had the government deploy to try to stop weapons from getting smuggled into Mexico, into the hands of those Drug Cartels. (One of them going south was the source of that "Fast & Furious" scandal against Attorney General Holder in recent years.) Why does the NRA hate such anti-crime measures? Why are they against Common Sense?

Beats the shit out of me.

I think teachers should be allowed to carry guns as well

i'm not mad, just sharing my opinion, i never claimed you or anybody else wanted to ban guns, that wasn't directed at anybody here. as far as "assault weapons", an ar15 is NOT an asaault weapon, it is a modern sporting rifle. an assault weapon, by definition, is a seletive fire weapon, meaning that it has the ability to go from semi-auto to either full auto or burst fire with the flick of a switch. to aquire one of those , there are so many hoops to go through with regards to the atf that its just not possible for ordinary citizens. you guys can attack my definition and say i'm splitting hairs, thats ok. as far as wanting to own one, they are fun, and are effective self defense weapons. yes they can be deadly, but so can any firearm.

this weird liberal mindset of "ban this make/model and crime will go away" is nonsense. people are adaptive, both for good and bad. take one away and somebody who's dead set on committing a horrible act will still find a way. there are so many bad stories about gun owners that its very frustrating, as the OVERWHELMING majority are about as respectful ,friendly and safe as any other person, from my experience. the thing that gets me, is while we hear, and we should, about guns being used to commit horrific crimes, the flipside is rarely true, as many lives are saved by guns in the right hands.

Reminds me of that movie CLASS OF 1984 when biology science teacher Roddy McDowall, mentally pushed over the cliff by a ruthless violent school gang and indifferent students, grabs a gun and holds the whole class hostage, threatening to pull the trigger if they fail to answer his questions correctly.

All students should also wear kevlar. Let the state pay for them.

So now there was a shooting in a hospital in Alabama. Luckily, only the gunman was killed, a police officer and two hospital employees injured.

All doctors/nurses should be allowed to carry guns too. Guards should be given grenades too. Just in case...

Oh yes, by all means. Any weapon, any time anywhere by anybody is perfectly acceptable BECAUSE I have 2nd amendment rights and can blow anyone to shit.

Maybe yesterday wouldn't have happened had those innocent little kids had guns on them. These are my emotions today:



TIS

Yeah, it's like Archie said. To avoid skyjackings, arm your passengers.

So, if one or more of the elementary school staff would have been armed, more people would have died?

Ha ha ha Thanks PB! That really lightened the mood. Ya think there is still the Archie Bunker mentality today?

I forgot how funny he was but can NOT imagine that show on today. Oh, and look how young the "Meathead" was.



TIS

Thanks, Tis. That's what I was hoping to do .

I'm completely shocked and dumbfounded by the tragedy that has unfolded in Newtown, CT. I seriously hope that the man who did this was mentally unhinged and not in control of his mental faculties, because I can't wrap my brain around someone who is in their right mind committing such a heinous, horrifying crime. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the departed. 20 sets of parents are now gonna have to spend Christmas without their children. That devastates me.

I don't know how accurate these statistics are, but they can't be too far off the mark:

My high school had a mini-police precinct (literally) in the basement, along with metal and BOMB detectors when you enter the school, id's to swipe into a machine, security guards, individual searches, etc. A few kids use to try and sneak blades into their sandwiches in the morning. Just a normal everyday experience going to school in the BX, it became the norm for me.

But you know what? Nothing like this has ever happened in the Bronx. So maybe they're on to something here .

Very true, I actually got use to it. Took an extra 5-10 minutes (depending on the lines) to go into the school in the morning but not a big deal.

Well, I have almost thirty years on you, Dapper. It would have been unheard of in my day. But I think my parents would have understood if that was the case.

I know FiveFelonies (thanks) posted this earlier, but here it is in an article form. Contains interesting details about the whole buying a gun process which I am personally not too familiar with.

Expert: Conn. Gun Laws Need Background Checks, Limit On Guns Purchased At Once Following School Shooting

As the reasoning behind the horrific mass shooting at a Connecticut elementary school that left 27 dead, at least 18 of which are children, continues to be investigated, the tragedy will inevitably open up new discussion concerning stricter gun laws in Connecticut and nationwide.

The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., on Friday morning comes during a time when Connecticut is considered to have some of the stronger gun laws in the nation. According to “Gun Laws Matter 2012” from the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, Connecticut has the fourth strongest gun laws in the nation, which coincides with the state as having the sixth lowest gun death rate. The state also “exports crime guns at a rate that is less than half the national average,” according to “Gun Laws Matter 2012.”

But even with gun laws that are considered better than other states, the laws are by no means strict. Robyn Thomas, executive director of the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, told CBS Connecticut that background checks are not required on all transfers of firearms, giving easier access to those who would otherwise fail a background check.

When it comes to buying guns from licensed dealers in Connecticut, a gun license and eligibility certificate is needed. In Friday’s shooting, police confirmed that one of the guns used was a .22-caliber Long Rifle, a gun often used for sports shooting. According to the state, a state permit is not required to purchase a long gun in Connecticut such as the .22-caliber Long Rifle reportedly used in the tragedy. In regard to long guns in the state, there is a two-week period on transfers of long guns if the purchase is made through a licensed dealer. But if the purchase is made through a private dealer, there is no waiting period for access in Connecticut to the king of long gun used in the tragedy in Newtown.

“Some of the laws Connecticut does have includes a background-check law at gun shows, but there are no background checks required for private transfers of long guns,” Thomas said. “If I sold you my gun and you lived next door, you don’t have to have a background check. You’re not supposed to have assault weapons and .50-caliber rifles, but you can transfer and possess large caliber magazines through private dealers.”

Though the number of guns used Friday morning remains unclear at this point, a number of loopholes in the state’s gun laws could be examined. One of them is that the state does not limit the number of firearms that may be purchased at one time through both licensed and private dealers. The state also fails at regulating ammunition sales and imposing design safety standards on guns that make their way into the state, Thomas said. The unlimited number of firearms that can be purchased at once coupled with the lack of transparency on ammunition sales facilitates a loophole for which gun owners to build a potentially sizable arsenal through both licensed and private dealers.

“Connecticut does have good laws, but a lot more could be done,” Thomas said. “We continue to say that part of the issue is simply there are too many guns and they are too easy to get.”

Following one of the most horrific school shootings in the country’s history, the tragedy could indeed bring about change in Connecticut. Thomas said she wouldn’t be surprised if background checks would be enforced on the transfers of all firearms in the state. She added that the ban of large capacity ammunition magazines could also come about if the state is serious about tightening up gun laws in the wake of the school shooting.

“When you focus on issues that impact mass shootings, people get their heads around what’s at stake,” Thomas said.

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012/12/...chool-shooting/

After four years of going through this daily (even the parents had to as well if they visited), most students already knew the cops/security guards by names, were on friendly terms, etc. Nice people, actually encourage the use of these measures (quite expensive im sure)

RIP to the victims and their families, this was a horrible tragedy.

i don't necessarily think all schools, particularly suburban or more rural schools need to go that far as it seems they are more in danger from outside sources rather than students themselves. with that said, that model seems to work very well in more crowded, and potentially more gang infested innercity schools. i am in favor of at least an armed security guard with at least a wand, so that way EVERYBODY who enters the school is subject to a quick check. it just seems to me that having to be "buzzed" in isn't sufficient enough, as once you are inside all bets are off. the guard also doesn't have to open carry his weapon, it could be concealed inside the waistband to help prevent unnecesaarly worry on the students part.

one of ammendment to the current laws that makes sense and i would support 100% like i have stated before is to make backround checks mandatory on all private gun sales. two people want to make a deal, so they can meet up at a gun shop or anywhere else where an fbi backround check can be legally preformed, pay a small fee, and have documentation protect the public as well as eliminate any liabilty on the part of the seller.

Well your first point can also be argued the other way, tragedies like Newtown, Columbine, etc in communities that are not inner-city would suggest that these are the communities that would need at a minimum a number of these measures implemented the most, but I agree that innercity schools are the ones that nowadays should require this type of security model to deter problems that are caused by gangs,etc.

My high school was a case in point, we had every kind of gang. Crips, bloods, Latin Kings, Asians, sons of wiseguys, which when all mixed up make for a very interesting school day to say the least.My HS had a fullpage spread in the NYTimes a few years back when Bloomberg finally closed/broke it up. I wont say the name for obvious reasons. How did I survive this without any problems people (particularly from rural/suburban areas)always ask me? Well, I was friends with everybody (naturally friendly) plus I was that kid on the baseball team, class president, honor roll, college bound, etc that everybody knew/liked. Helped me stay alive thats for sure, many of these violent kids look out/are very friendly to the popular kids (not always).

It's important to keep in mind the fiscal effects of preventive measures. In Texas, about one half of funding for public schools comes from local property taxes while most of the remaining funding comes from the State. Depending on the additional security, funding of it could require a prodigious increase in local property taxes which currently far outstrips municipal and county property taxes. Given that Texas has a balanced budget provision in its Constitution, any additional State funding of education would have to demonstrate a revenue source to pay for it. Since Texas does not impose a property or income tax, voters would have to condier amending the Constitution to impleemnt one or both. The only other alternative would be increasig the State sales tax.

I absolutely agree. In my HS the annual costs of these measures were over $500k a yr, which is a bunch of money for a school to sustain when already grappling with other issues like overcrowding, lack of books, etc.

And there's no truth to this is there?



TIS

Thats BS, lol

the nra gets alot of undeserved heat. i'm certainly not a fan of lobbyists in general, but there are more than a few anti-gun lobbies, so unless we want to get rid of all of them(not a bad idea ) it is what it is. they are pushing an agenda which they, and i, believe is worthwhile. if you don't agree with them, here's an easy solution, donate money to the brady campaign or wherever else you want. some of the accusations thrown at them are just downright disgusting. they are not some racist kkk organization, nor are they responsible for these mass shootings, thats just crap.

For those who claim that having armed guards or armed teachers could stop these shootings, please remember that Presidents have been shot while being protected by one of the best armed security forces in the world.

I read today that since the Columbine massacre in 1999, 266 people have died in spree shootings in the US. That does NOT include the shooters themselves, many who have taken their own lives. When you add in the shooters and the injured, the number approaches 500. And most of them involved shooters who had obtained their guns legally. Don't tell me our gun laws are not an issue.

As for on-screen violence and its contribution, my daughter actually just did her nursing psych rotation and wrote an in-depth research paper on the topic. Her hypothesis was that violence in TV, movies and video games contributes to violent behavior. However, her research actually proved her theory wrong. While exposure to violence did desensitize reactions to violence, it did not make the viewer more violent themselves.

FS, yes, the knife rampages in China are indeed horrible. However, I'm sure that Newtown would rather have 22 injured children (and none of them seriously injured) than be facing 28 funerals in the next week.

Well, as I posted above: if any of the staff at the school had been armed, would the death toll have been the same?

People blaming the media on this (why?) really want another scapegoat beyond the you know...

Slate: Shooter's Mother was avid gun collector, taught her children how to use/shoot them, took them to target shooting

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2...y_shooting.html

I know media is anxious to report, BUT they've mis-reported this story a lot. First they thought the shooter was the brother of the shooter.

They said the shooter entered the school with no problem. Now today say he shot window to get in.


NOW the media is saying there is NO connection between the school and the shooter's mother, when they had originally reported she taught there, and then that she maybe subbed there. There's a couple others, but I can't think of them right now. I like to be updated, but they should wait to confirm before they report something.

On another note they said there was an altercation a couple days ago between Lanza, the Principal and 2 Psychologists and another person. All were killed yesterday but one person who was not there yesterday.


TIS

Be the first with the story, it doesn't matter if it's right, apparently!

I'm wondering IF his mom isn't associated with the school, and if the altercation occurred, why kill 20 children?

Oh, another report I heard just today (tho I wouldn't swear by it after all the mis reports). They said Lanza had mental problems (ya think?) autistic-like (whatever that means). That may turn out to be totally false, but something tells me there were mental issues.



TIS

ive read/heard he had a mild form of autism called aspergers disease.

Thanks. I have only recently found out what aspergers is. Maybe it is true then.


TIS

I had a classmate in business school with it, she is extremely intelligent (particularly about American politics) and hardworking but had extremely poor social skills. These are the same characteristics i have been reading that this shooter possessed.

This is a very interesting read...

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

In part by forbidding almost all forms of firearm ownership, Japan has as few as two gun-related homicides a year.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international...-deaths/260189/

ha, read that on another forum in a thread about gun debate, a real interesting read that goes into detail about the cultural differences and why one type of law or restriction might not work in a vastly different culture. also interesting was the suicide #'s, as even though japan has almost no firearms, the suicide numbers are still significantly higher as compared to the us. expanding on the cultural differences, it was also a real eye opener to see that there is almost a 100% conviction rate when it comes to arrests over there, and the powers of the police to basically come into your home whenever they want to talk/question you. while i'm a big admirer of the japanese, i would much rather take my chances with the occasional tragedy and live in a society with much more privacy and focus on individual rights!

edit, although that article was similar to the one i was reffering to, they are different. here is the one i was originally talking about, kinda long but a great read nonetheless !
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htm

I am so sick of these mother fucking assholes!

http://www.examiner.com/article/connecti...nning-to-picket

agreed 100%, while i'm in total support of freedom of speech, this is really pushing the envelope, even for me. i have spend alot of time in west virginia, and have alot of very close friends there. back when they had a few of those coal mine incidents, i believe saigo was the worst, these shitbags showed up there to proclaim that the reason for the disaster was that "god hates fags", or something similar. the people down there are as friendly as can be, but lets just say they were luckey the state police were there otherwise none of them would have made it out alive, and thats a fact! they use the same MO regardless of the circumstances, and the worst part is that they indoctrinate the children into that batshit crazy cult. here's to hoping that next time they are protesting on the side of the road, that some good ol' boy does a drive-by with a can of bear mace or worse

That's what going to happen sooner or later. All they are is a cult, like jim jones. I just wished the supreme court would have sided with the families and made it illegal to picket any kind of furinal. They could say it's the same thing as saying 'fire' in a crowded theater or room. They could cause a riot, with harm to certain people (mostly those who picket).

A question to our legal beagles.... what if the local police force (town or state) didn't allow these protestors to gather? What if the law enforcement chiefs claimed that the protestors were inciting to riot?

I too am sick & tired of those assholes AND I don't get what/why they are protesting:

"sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment". WTF is their issue this time.


TIS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/208248072645037/

It looks like that in case WBC do decide to picket funeral's, there will be a wall to block them from protesting. This way the families can mourn in peace, and not see these disgusting POS.

Any court of competent jurisdiction would probably follow two precedents or philosophies: 1) government actions must be independent of the content of any protest. In other words, it must be content neutral; 2) any physical threat must be imminent and not just likely.

These jerk offs make me sick to my stomach. Why don't they go protest Lanza's funeral and leave the families alone?

Those assholes are about as Christian as the Anti-Christ.

Westboro Baptist Church To Picket Sandy Hook Elementary, Praise God For Shooting

Makes me want to puke! No wonder Christians get a bad wrap now and then -- because of ASSHOLE IDIOTS like these!!

Are these the sort who also beat up their women as a way of getting closer to God? Is there any other sort of reformed Baptist at all?

Ripple effects... Barrington High School in suburban Chicago cancels dance last night due to rumors of a student planning a shooting.

If anyone's gonna shoot anyone, someone oughta shoot those protesters, thats freakin rediculous.

If you guys recall, a year or two ago these assholes protested a funeral of a gay soldier. At a funeral, were friends/family are grieving?? Ok, they have a right to protest, BUT I say let them protest, but blocks away. That family had every right to THEIR privacy. God, they piss me off.



TIS

Shooting ranges wrongfully fear Obama will take away their guns

Shooting range employee pitches gun to customer, 'You need to get this going before March. Once (President Obama) is sworn into office no one will be able to get their hands on a gun. Trust me. It’s done.'

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...3#ixzz2FEi7tXxa

Did some quick research on these issues that you touched on in japan.

A few professors wrote a paper on why the Japanese conviction rate is so high, they concluded it was because of two reasons. One is that judges who come under the control of central bureaucracy are pressured to pass a guilty verdict, ensuring high conviction. Another is that, given that non jury system (there isnt a jury system in japan) under inquisition system has predictable ruling on guilt, prosecutors rarely ever bring a case which have even minute chance of failure.

The paper found that Japanese prosecutors have a far more pressing need to be selective. In the U.S., the federal government employs 27,985 lawyers and the states employ another 38,242 (of which 24,700 are state prosecutors). In Japan, with about a third of U.S. population, the entire government employs a mere 2,000. Despite Japan having a low crime rate, such numbers create a significant case overload for prosecutors. In the U.S., there are 480 arrests (96 serious cases) per year per state prosecutor. (The actual figure is lower as some are prosecuted in federal court). In Japan, the figure is 700 per year per prosecutor. In the U.S., a rough estimate is that 42% of arrests in felony cases result in prosecution - while in Japan, the figure is only 17.5%.

The Japanese criminal justice system, despite retaining the death penalty, is relatively lenient in sentencing by the standard of the United States. Outside capital cases, many of those sentenced to life sentences are paroled within 15 years. Those convicted of less heinous murder and manslaughter are likely to serve less than 10 years. Those convicted of rape will often serve less than two to five years. It is even possible for someone convicted of murder to serve a suspended sentence if the defense successfully argues for mitigating circumstances. Moreover, in Japanese criminal proceedings the conviction and sentencing phase are separate.

http://www.rasmusen.org/published/Rasmusen-01.JLS.jpncon.pdf

On your point about the suicide numbers, there are a few reasons for that. Factors resulting in suicide include unemployment (due to the long economic recession), depression, and social pressures.In Japanese culture there is a long history of honorable suicide, such as ritual suicide by Samurai to avoid being captured, flying one's plane into the enemy during WWII, or charging into the enemy fearlessly to prevent bringing shame on one's family. Japanese society's attitude toward suicide has been termed "tolerant," and in many occasions suicide is seen as a morally responsible action.

And on your last point, I would much rather do the opposite. Have no national tragedies, etc even if it means I have to give up some of my individual rights to guns and lose some of my privacy because lets be honest we have very little privacy nowadays anyways and if an individual is extremely concerned about these issues then that tells me that person is somebody that should be monitored cause they might be up to something or there is a reason that they take these issues to heart most of the time.

Yes, and as far as I know President Obama has changed/enacted NO new gun laws. People are either, gullible, stupid or more likely, simply hate Obama so much that they pretend it's true.

Truth be told, I HOPE in light of recent slaughter of children, something is finally done. (yet, sadly, won't hold my breath.)



TIS

Where does this idea originate that a US President can pass federal laws? Only the US Congress can pass federal laws.

i would say all those things are true.

That's true Oli. People tend to turn to the President I guess cause he's the leader. Even IF the President proposes any gun law changes, I am not enthusiastic that congress (both Rs & Ds) will go for any.

TIS

Stupidity at its finest, its hard to fight the spin machine.

is the last part referring to me? its okay if it is, but regardless, everybody should be concerned with privacy and individual rights. yes, we have lost an insane amount of freedom over the last decade, which is why we should hold on even tighter to what we have left. i'm not even talking gun rights here, but privacy. i don't want the government listening to my calls or monitoring my internet activity for the simple reason that its my business. this whole idea of "well, if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem" is total bullshit and about as un-american as can be. things are always taken away incrimentally, and we should all be aware of that. if nobody is concerned with privacy, why not have cameras in all our houses? seems silly, but who's to say 20-30 years down the road thats out of the realm of possibility?

Yea, im referring to you. In NYC where I live, there are already cameras everywhere, streets, subway, etc due to the extreme precautions our govt has taken in the aftermath of 9/11. The feds already have the technology to actively monitor all phone calls which can be automatically flagged and listened to at the drop of certain words, etc. Shit has already hit the fan,I agree that we should fight for our rights, im not condoning us turning into North Korea.The idea of "if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem" is not bullshit and is not unamerican. I think it is 100% valid. If you dont have anything to hide then your not going to get in trouble or flagged. It's explicitly stated in the patriot act, and other laws that have been passed. DO I think there is abuse of these laws/technology? obcourse there is, but I think that the number of instances that that would be the case is much smaller than us not taking these measures and dealing with potential national tragedies and then having the people asking "why wasnt the govt doing this or that" to prevent this from happening, etc.

CNN just reported that one of the churches in Newtown had to be evacuated by police after some threat was phoned in. More than likely it was a hoax, but what kind of sick fucked-up individual would do that???

Let's hope THAT person's phone was being monitored. Heartless asshole.

I just saw that PB. Here's the link. Not much info, but constantly updating.



http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Newtown-Church-Evactuated-183704271.html


Btw, at mass yesterday, at my church, they lit candle, prayed for victims and talked about incident. I think every faith will likely do the same today.

TIS

Apparently the Newtown police chief mentioned that some people have made fake social network accounts passing themselves off as the gunman to post stuff like "i will kill myself in Connecticut this friday" etc, he said that was illegal and the feds are actively investigating and those individuals can be jailed.

Yes, I saw that report. Nutjobs all over the place that jump on the bandwagon. They should be punished if they are ever found.

Re: the Catholic church evacuation. I hear the police gave the "all clear" and that it was a bomb threat. (another nutjob. As if this town hasn't had enough grief)


TIS

OK, CNN is reporting that the shooter's father sends his condolences to the parents of the victims. I thought he's father was the body they found in NJ? If not, who was it? How did I miss this big chunk of the story?




TIS

That was the mothers. The news media fucked up big time, and I wish that somebody would bring it up and try to change news reporting back to what it was. Report on the facts, don't just say stuff unconfirmed.

I thought the mother's body was found in CT? She was in NJ? There was no other adult murdered away from the school then?

I agree Bam, the media has F-ed up a LOT on this story reporting heresay/unconfirmed info. I can see going after a story, but for wait for facts before you report.



TIS

The mom was found in her home in CT. Nobody was found dead in NJ in regards to this case, I dont know where that came from.

Either they confused another crime with what was going on in CT or somebody just found a blog or tweet and ran with it.

The media needs to get there facts straight, need to stop asking questions to children that just dealt with the most traumatizing event in there young lives, and most of all stop showing the monsters face/name and show the victim's/hero's name and story. We barely remember a victim from any massacre, but we always remember the monster's name. Shouldn't be like that.

The news reported the following statistic: If you bring a gun in your home, it is 22 times more likely to be used in a suicide (attempt or successful), a homicide or an accidental shooting than in self-defense.

There are some guns I just don't get the need for, and don't tell me that it's "cool". There is nothing cool about a killing machine. One of the handguns, I believe the Sig Sauer, that the gunman used had a clip with 30 rounds. You don't hunt deer or bear with that. You kill people. That's its only purpose - to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible. Why would anyone outside the police or military need such a weapon?

To shoot such a miserable person who goes and kills little children? I think that's the purpose of the gun to prevent yourself from being killed and to protect others.

I doubt the thing that if firearms would be banned then there would be no such events. It would just make it like this - the bad guys would have guns as criminals will sell guns ilegally. And the civilians will get shot/robbed, because they won't have a thing to protect themselves.

Another question is - to who you give out a gun. Make a normal mental test and if he's ok then give him the weapon out. Or just sell it to anyone who comes in the store just like a potato.

Sigs usually don't come with a 30 round mag, those can usually be purchased aftermarket as high capacity mags, but alot of states have those illegal anyway.

Someone who is pure EVIL!!

I hope the FBI finds out who it was, bust through there front door guns drawn and scare the living hell of this fuck.

Apparently not enough. And really? We're worried about being gunned down by criminals? The guns used in the massacres of Aurora, Columbine, Virginia Tech and now Newtown were all purchased LEGALLY. Apparently there are too many holes in our current laws if this can happen. Stop the bullshit.

Then your country needs to stop giving out guns to idiots and give them only to normal people. My news wrote that the shooter was mentally ill with autism. How the hell did he get "legally" those guns?

In NFL post-game: an ad for shoot 'em up video game. I'm all for curbing weapons of war. But shouldn't we also quit marketing murder as a game?

I guess we'll have to settle for less such events. I could live with that. I'm sure BB.Net can too. How about you?



With our gun laws, are we any safer? It's one thing to debate if we were Western Europe regarding gun control, but WE ARE NOT. We're guns galore but damn these shootings keep happening quite regularly. And it feels like it's getting worse. I mean when Columbine happened, JESUS CHRIST! Now when these happen, we go Oh. In fact would we be as upset over this new tragedy if it wasn't for a truckload of dead little children?

How many school shootings happened back in the 60s when we last had a President that was very pro-gun control? OK you had that Texas bell shooter, but...that's it? So more school shootings with more lax gun laws, i.e. more guns out there, and...yeah logic would dictate that the solution you're defending IS NOT FUCKING WORKING.

Besides your defeatist rationality is pretty daft. Hey we've always had murder, and always will. Our laws against murder sure don't seem to stop them from ever happening again. Let's legalize murder. Same thing for rape and oh yeah pedophilia.

Be serious.

If that happen, that would kill at least 80% of video games out there. We would have a 2nd video game industry crash.

Oh and for the record, those that are seriously arguing teachers or principals should be armed...think about this seriously for a moment.

In war, how many times have we read stories about innocent civilians getting killed in battle? How about reports of friendly fire accidents? Unintentional, but THEY DO UNFORTUNATELY HAPPEN. The same goes for whenever police get into shootouts with criminals, bystanders get hit or worse.

Why? Because life isn't an action movie where you pull out a gun, plug a baddie, put gun back in holster, THE END. No anytime when guns are drawn, you have chaos with bodies moving everywhere and chaos reigns when you're responding quickly and don't have time at all to think clearly and know your surroundings. Seriously how routinely does it feel when we hear about a cop killing a guy who was reaching out for his wallet because he thought this guy was pulling out a piece?

Then there are physics at play. Ricochet bullets have hurt God knows how many folks. And you can't plan or do anything really against that. Even when people are shot, bullets can pass through and continue on their trajectories...and possibly hit other people.

And the thing is, cops and soldiers are paid, trained, and conditioned to do as best as possible in these shall we say, war zone situations. Most prepared for using their weapons to pacify a hostile enemy, i.e. eliminating.

Teachers aren't. Oh sure you can make them take a course and hope (unless legally obligated) they routinely go target practicing, but they're not soldiers or cops. Even strapped with a gun, they're not going to be in the constant self-preparing mind frame of engaging in gunfire like cops and soldiers are. They're mind frame is homework and fretting about their shit pay and wondering why they didn't go to law/medical school.

If cops and soldiers have the same accidents with bullets as I mentioned above, logic surely dictates that they would have the same problems. IF NOT WORSE. Unless you're willing to tell me with a straight face that a balding Chemistry professor or Kindergarden teacher won't fuck up?

I'll tell you all this. If the right now calling for armed teachers have their way, the next shooting happens and a teacher/principle accidentally plugs an innocent kid...what you think the public and family of such collateral damage will just shrug? No they'll be angry, demand action, and we'll be back where we are right now. Then what next, make kids wear kelvar? School metal detectors?

Why are guns banned from schools in the first place? Guns kill people, purposeful or not. Kids go to schools. Guns kill + Kids = Dead kids. That's why we banned them in the first place. Right? Sometimes there was common sense originally.

Another shooting in San Antonio last night, at a movie theatre. At least 2 injured.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/SAP...DrsHjXx2kQ.cspx

Not only was she a gun collector, apparently she was one of those crazy "doomsday preppers".

She, obviously, didn't prepare herself for this.

Some news stories I've seen about her paint her as an overbearing mother. Add that to a kid with Aspergers and it becomes a deadly mix.

Deadly mix indeed. She was probably putting a lot of strange things inside this kid's already screwed up head, and surrounding him with weapons. Now I'm hearing he had 5 guns on him, not just 3.

They want these lazy over paid, union thugs to suddenly become trained Navy Seals.


TIS

We lose more people to guns each year than we lost on 9/11. Bottom lie is the assault rifles and multi round clips are a threat to our national security.

To whom are you referring?

(RR Article) I am referring to the anti-union people/politicians who claim teachers are overpaid, lazy and want to bust unions. Surely you've seen what went on in WI? They want to take away collective bargaining but NOW some politicians want teachers to have guns at school.



TIS

That's it right there. That's all anyone is saying. I'm all for hunting and home protection. Hell, I'm even for sport and target shooting with handguns, for people who qualify for a license. But no one is ever going to convince me that they need an assault rifle for anything close to home protection or hunting. No private citizen should be able to purchase one.

I'm one of the rare Democrats who wasn't in love with Bill Clinton, but in my opinion his ten year ban on assault weapons was one of the high points of his Presidency. And the world didn't end for the gun lovers in this country, now did it?

Bush should have renewed it.

The new law should close the gun show loophole

Top priorty.

It's a video game. Should they have showed that a couple days after a tragedy, probably not. Honestly though video games are getting the same shit that comic books got back in the 50's.

Also, they showed ad's for djaingo unchained and gangster squad. Both showing guns being fired.

Relax, Bam. No one is going to take your Nintendo away. But these things have to be explored. Studies have to be made, etc.

Because the truth is, we really don't know. This shit never happened before the video game generation. Now that's probably just a coincidence, but it doesn't hurt to find out for sure.

We are the outcome of our genetics and everything that we are exposed to. Most of us are able to thresh through our genetics and develop the positives and eschew the negatives; some are not able to do that. Most of us are able to integrate that which we are exposed to into a productive, non-aggressive and non-destructive personal framework; some are not able to do that.

While I am for, and it's good to explore everything, bottom line is it is still the gun that kills, not the video game or the movie, or the song.

I never really thought about until recently when my grandkids were watching an old Tom & Jerry cartoon, which consisted of hammers on the head, throwing off cliffs and that type of thing. My daughter is the one who commented on it's violence, while I didn't really take note of it til then.

Man, we were exposed to that all the time as kids. AND, what about the Three Stooges? My God, today they'd be considered awfully violent. Yet, these were things we KNEW not to do. Most people do NOT imitate what they see. Some with troubled minds will, and of course we can't catch/help ALL of them the all the time but there is absolutely no reason NOT to talk about this issue and take some kind of action.


TIS

When people have little or no control over an event like this, they rant on the Internet. It makes them feel better to vent. With most on here agreeing with every word.

Truth being that you could pass laws all day long and it wouldn't stop people like this. You may feel better in your own mind and that is fine, but people who have done this type of thing couldn't care jack about the law. They are sick and those laws are the last/least things on their mind before they pull their evil deed.
Don't let sick people's actions take good people's rights away, no matter how bad things seem to be.

What a hard way to remind us what is really important in life IS Life itself.

Peace and love to you all in the New Year!

This has been explored. Everything else has been explored except mental illness/medications. There has been shootings before pong came out, and while it was out. The only problem there is with video games is the fact that parents would use it to 'babysit' there kids.

Another thing too, cable tv started around the same time as video games. Then we have the 24/7 news channels that shove every violent crime in our faces. Because of this we think that kidnappings are happening more, that shootings are happening more, etc.

with regards to gun control, the one thing that has slipped through the minds of many is this person tried to purchase the guns legally, and was denied. how he got them from his mother is still speculation. like i said earlier, if he was crazy enough to do what he did, he could have forced his mother to hand them over. people need to keep thier weapons secure, but what is the solution to that? keep them locked up in a safe 24/7? that defeats the whole purpose of self defense, and for people who always throw out the "this gun has no use for hunting ect" logic, the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting at all.

How about people just use some good judgement. If you have a son with a learning disability and mental illness living at home with you, you don't have an arsenal of guns in the house, and you don't teach him how to use them.

The difference with owning a gun and raping someone is, that you own a gun, you're a collector or using it for personal safety. And if you're raping people then you got some mental problems or you're a cheap asshole not wanting to pay a hooker for her job.

I own a pistol myself. So what? Now I'm some pshyco who'll go into a school and murder children? No, I'm not. I got my own reasons why do I own this pistol and it has nothing to do with me wanting to kill or even use it against someone.

You don't need to ban guns from everyone, you need to ban guns from idiots. And that's why you got mental tests and everything that you test these people with. And that's why you got the police department that should check on the person if he's holding the weapon according to the law. For example in my country, if you want to own a gun, you need a safe in your house, which is attached to the floor and police comes to check if it's all good there, only then you can get your gun.

Once idiots stop getting guns and normal people keep getting them, these problems should go.

100% this. Parents/legal guardians should be held responsible if they buy guns for there child (especially if they have anger/mental problems).

EDIT: Another thing to note about school shootings. It has been going on since the 1800's in this country. The most deadly was a bomb planted in a school by a school official in 1925. A lot of these issues stem from anger/mental problems.

agreed, but that will ultimately fall to the individual in a free society. all i can do is make sure that what i own is properly secured, i can't do anything about anybody else. the overwhelming majority of gun owners are very safe, and really try to promote safety.

It's just the few that make the group look bad.

I guess you're talking about me?

Well, you're right. But look at my post. I never mentioned the second amendment. Not once. My question is, Who needs an assault rifle?

And please don't tell me that they're "fun to shoot." Because that's as rednecky an answer as there is. If you can list a single reason for a private citizen to own an assault weapon, I'm all ears and willing to listen. I enjoy a free debate, FF. I thought you knew that.

I went out of my way to say that it's probably a coincidence, Bam. But as far as your saying "this has been explored," I think you're overstating it.

hey pizzaboy, that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, and nobody here, i hear comments like that all the time, so it was adressed more to whom it may concern. as for reasons to own one, they are fun to shoot, but again, they are an effective self defense weapon. i'm very pro-gun, so please don't get offended when i say this, but if you(again, not sure of your backround with guns, so more again to whom it may concern) have little or no experience with guns, who are you to decide what is appropriate? just because a weapon looks a certain way or has the ability to hold more ammo doesn't automatically make it way more deadly. it all comes down to the user. the problem is, if we ban all high capacity mags, and god forbid, a shooting happens with a pump shotgun, the response is the same. get rid of them, no need for that ect!

we have roughly 90 million gun owners in this country, with over 300 million guns. the overwhelming majority are upstanding citizens. banning a certain make or model will do nothing. during clintons "ban", were there any less murders than today? no, you had jonesboro, columbine ect. the other issue i have is you never here about guns being used for good, and there are plenty of stories.

I legally own three handguns and a hunting rifle. I'm licensed to carry in BOTH New York State and Florida.

I'm not some sissy, anti-gun, peace-loving, liberal hippie. Okay?

People who do not use guns, have guns or like guns will never understand people who do.
They will just keep demanding why....why do you need them, why do we need them around why do you like them ect ect ect. Owners will always be on he defensive

Many are afraid of just seeing one and they are one item that always seems to get bad side of them talked about but yet there are over 200 million of them around.

and the people who just love to debate will now use this evil event to fan the flames once more. and the media will drive this event till you finally get sick of hearing about it like they always do. Filling hours and hours of airtime with ever detail under the microscope until we are all numb. Most getting things wrong with the wrong terms and speculations that change every hour.

i never thought of you as one. i respect everyone's opinions, whether i agree with them or not. i spent alot of time down south, both when i was younger and now as a young adult. i've been around all kinds of weapons, shot, and done a bit of hunting. never has there been any problems with any firearm, and i just refuse to give up rights because of what a few crazies do. it all has alot to do with the people we grew up around, thus why there are such divided opinions both here and the country as a whole. again, i respect your opinion, even though i don't agree. no hard feelings

Well, yeah. What I really hate more than anything is how an event like the one on Friday becomes political so fast. Mourn for these beautiful kids first. That's all I'm saying.

And to Obama's credit, he didn't mention anything in particular outside of "things need to change." He was genuinely shaken up and it showed. Between Hurricane Sandy and this, he's shown himself to be very human.

It's cool, FF. I like you. This is just a pretty volatile subject, that's all. And I remember you mentioning the South awhile back. Didn't you write that you feel more comfortable when you're outside of the Northeast? Or did I dream that?

this is what it boils down to, great way of simplifying it. people who are against certain weapons, always want some sort of justification on why others want them. some feel there is no explaination required. when it comes down to what someone "needs", its all very subjective. maybe not the most valid comparision, but does anybody need a corvette that goes over 200 mph? no, and while cars and guns are vastly different things, the bottom line is things can go wrong with both so its a valid comparision in a way. to the people who say guns only exist to kill, not true. guns are a means to end a violent confrontation, although killing is a likely outcome.

Sure, just let things get worse. The only one who wins is the undertaker.

Hmmmmm....

nope, you didn't dream it, very sharp memory grampa i love the more independent spirit that seems to exist there, and i feel more at home there. that's why i've been doing my best to save as much money as i can so that sooner rather than later i can move there. i don't like when people shit on people from down there either, as regardless of what anybody thinks about the "good ole' boys", they are the ones protecting us overseas. granted soldiers come from all over, but a very large % come from down south!

Well as you know, we live in South Florida part time. But in Florida, the farther you go south, the more northern it becomes .

But I really do enjoy traveling through the southern states when we drive down. Although to be honest, driving down is becoming a rarity for us. Bottom line: Just getting too old for that. Gotta pee every other rest stop .

if you are ever anywhere near west virginia, take a drive into pendleton county. about45 minutes west of harrisonburg,virginia on rt 33. i think its the prettiest area in the whole country, and the drive over shanendoah mountain through the 1.2 million acre george washington national forrest is simply stunning!

I do think it's worth noting that half of the nation's deadliest shootings ever have occurred in the last five years.

1. April 16, 2007: Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg; 32 dead + shooter
2. December 14, 2012: Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut; 27 dead + shooter
3. Oct. 16, 1991: Luby's Cafeteria, in Killeen, Tex.; 23 dead + shooter
4. July 18, 1984: McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif.; 21 dead + shooter
5. Aug. 1, 1966: University of Texas at Austin; 16 dead + shooter
6. Aug. 20, 1986: Post office in Edmond, Okla.; 14 dead + shooter
7. April 20, 1999: Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.; 13 dead + 2 shooters
8. April 3, 2009: Immigration services center in Binghamton, N.Y.; 13 dead + shooter
9. Nov. 5, 2009: Soldier Readiness Processing Center at Fort Hood, Texas; 13 dead
10. Sept. 6, 1949: Camden, N.J.; 13 dead
11. July 20, 2012: Movie theater in Aurora, Colo.; 12 dead

I get defensive around this subject mainly because fox news keeps blaming videos games for everything that has happened since columbine, and also trying to say those monsters trained from video games. Anyway's what I was trying to say was that they have done tests and statistics. Just ammo for both sides of this argument. For all I know you could be right, I could be right, we both could be right, or wrong.

FWIW, CNN also reported that the shooter was an avid player of "World of Warcraft"
and other shoot 'em up video games.

Solutions can be had without taking GOOD people rights away my friend. Smart people in the past have found the solutions before.

Oh, and if you looked behind all the reporting you may find that hundreds stepped up and offered their help from our profession without needing time before the news camera or a paycheck. Their only wish to be a help to these family in time of need.

If you read back a few pages, I mentioned video games. My daughter just did her psych rotation in nursing school and had to do an in-depth research paper. Her hypothesis was that overexposure to those shoot 'em up video games made one more violent. Every study that she found proved her wrong. While they desensitized the players to violence, they did not make them behave violently.

As for the freedoms, everything comes with responsibility. If you own a car, you must get it inspected annually, you need to have insurance, you must study to get your license, you can't drive recklessly. Why? Because, as my driver's ed instructor told me, a car is a lethal weapon and you must operate it safely. If you don't, you lose the right to drive it.

What oversight is there in place once you own a gun? I don't believe that you need to have insurance in case you accidentally shoot someone, or if someone borrows your gun and shoots someone in the leg. Do you? Do you need to bring your gun somewhere to have it inspected once a year? Is there such a thing as SWI, shooting while impaired, since many hunting trips also involve beer? Please, inform me of all the tight controls that are in place to protect others from THESE lethal weapons.

As for the second amendment, it refers to a well-armed militia, not a well-armed suburbanite. Also, when it was written, I'm pretty sure that the founders were thinking of MUSKETS not assault rifles or handguns with 30 round clips. These are military weapons that have no place in the home.

Our children are being senselessly slaughtered and don't tell me that anything is more important that putting an end to that.

car insurance is not required in all 50 states. cars only need to be registered/inspected if you operate them on a public street,much like a license to carry a concealed weapon. hunters don't hunt drunk, thats nothing more than silly stereotype. if you are deer hunting with beer or whiskey on your breath, good luck, deer have notoriously good smell. as for the second amendment, of course the founders couldn't see into the future and predict modern weapons, i don't know anyone that can.

Something definitely needs to be done so this tragedy never happens again. But as long as there are evil people in the world things like this will keep happening sad to say.

I can attest to that being false. I've played those kinds of games since I was little, hell i remember playing Doom and Wolfenstein when i was like 5, and I don't go out beating people up or killing people.


30 round hi-cap mags are used for competition shooting and like I said before, most states have made those illegal anyway. Tightening regulations on guns isn't going to exactly get rid of the problem because you can easily go into any major city and find someone who can get you a fully automatic tec-9, mac-11 or AK47 with 50-100 round mags, and tightening regulations on law abiding people isn't going to get rid of that problem.

Again as I proposed before, let's legalize murder then with your logic. Find a better argument.

This is worth nohing. In 1996, Australia banned semi-automatic and automatic firearms after a similar shooting massacre happened. This reform also included gun buyback, which resulted in the government buying back about 20% of the firearms being circulated in Australia at the time.

The result? A large decline in suicides and reduced homicides in the nation of Mad Max and baby-eating killer Dingos.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/



Which in essence you also mean keep BAD people rights.

Please people, try to think. Apply common sense.

First of all, not to get too off-topic. but those few states that don't require car insurance require that the uninsured post a fee or bond with the state, so your point isn't really made.

Don't focus on minutiae. The issue is that too many children are dying at the hands of armed madmen.

australia is far from a success story...

Remember when the Grand Theft Auto series was blamed too for massacres?

Has anybody else thought odd that some folks use the "guns don't kill people" meme but then abandon that when it comes to video games/movies/TV? Subconciously its almost like some folks want to change the subject.

I'll say again when I said before (if worded differently) on this topic: Name one instance where a game/movie/TV was cited in a crime scene for cause of death.

I mean you've never had Batman or Spider-Man fans kill each other over who is better. Or no Mom's basement was ever bombed as a result at least. (In that regard, such obsessive active fandoms I would be willing to argue to be more civilized than some religions in the world today.)

Cutting down homicide isn't a good thing? Explain that logic to me. Better yet, look at the big broad picture. Would we prefer less massacres, no? Australia, not to insult you my friend, isn't exactly the 3rd world. If geographically displaced, it's part of the Western world. I refuse to say they're just like us, but they're close.

With your logic, you would argue that Desegregation was bad. Why? Because (and this is a fact) it cost countless blacks jobs in private and public sectors once that niche economic marketplace was voided and inevitably swamped by the bigger, more powerful (and white) corporate/public mainstream. BAD! BAD! NOT A SUCCESS STORY!!!!!!!!

Would you really argue that? Of course not. Why? Because in the end ending segregation we consider a good thing and worth it ultimately. Big picture friend, don't get hanged up on blots.

Utopia (as per the name when translated) is impossible as per your precious criteria. You're not that naive. I (and most folks) prefer to have less of a problem. Unless you really do think the status quo is a 'success story'?

Reminds me of politics whenever an incumbent party claims the job rate is (allegedly) going down and the opposition will whine that NOT ENOUGH jobs are being created.

There is legitimate criticism, and then there is pure whine. Would you like red or white?

The newest James Bond movie SKYFALL featured our hero having a gun with a sophisticated fingerprint I.D. system which allowed only the owner to fire the weapon.

What if gun owners can be sure (or close to at least) assuring it can't be stolen and used for crimes, or people/relatives "borrowing" the guns? I find this a compelling alternative that everybody would(should?) be fine with. Of course it doesn't stop gun owners from committing such crimes themselves, but this is a good idea.



http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/meaningful-action-to-prevent-more-tragedies-like-this/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OTB+%28Outside+The+Beltway+%7C+OTB%29

~Of course that proposal has one flaw that some will quickly jump on as "not a success story." In that of course the gun owners can and will still go do massacres.

As I stated above, we are a combination of our genetics and everything that we are exposed to. Most of us are able to integrate those exposures into our behaviors without incident; some of us are not able to do so. Since none of us on this Board are physicians of any type and do not regularly read and understand the American Journal of Psychiatry (or similar professional publictions), we can only speculate about the influence of violent video games on behavior. However, we can reasonably aassume that anything we are exposed to may find expression in our behaviors.

Would this explain my pro wrestling fandom?

Even the most cursory of online searches will yield an abundance of scientific studies showing the harmful effects violent media can have on young, impressionable minds.

TV & Movie Violence: Why watching it is harmful to children
http://www.ocd.pitt.edu/Files/PDF/Parenting/TvAndMovieViolence.pdf

Kids and Violent Movies: A Scary Trend
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20080805/kids-and-violent-movies-a-scary-trend

Does Rap or Rock Music Provoke Violent Behavior?
http://library.wcsu.edu/dspace/bitstream/0/35/1/tropeano.pdf

Study: Rap Music Linked to Alcohol, Violence
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5390075

The Impact of Rap and Hip-Hop Music On American Youth
http://www.teenink.com/nonfiction/all/ar...American-Youth/

Can Listening to Music be Harmful to Us?
http://www.simonheather.co.uk/pages/articles/listen.pdf


Violent Video Games - Psychologists Help Protect Children from Harmful Effects
http://www.apa.org/research/action/games.aspx

The effects of violent video games. Do they affect our behavior?
http://ithp.org/articles/violentvideogames.html

How Playing Violent Video Games May Change the Brain
http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/how-playing-violent-video-games-may-change-the-brain/

Are violent video games harmful?
http://www.easternct.edu/~lugow/courses/videogames/violence.pdf

DOES VIDEO GAME VIOLENCE HARM TEENS? NEW STUDY WEIGHS THE EVIDENCE
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/vidviollaw.htm

Anything to which we are exposed has that potential.

Connecticut in 1993 did ban 30 different models of semiautomatic military-style assault rifles. EXCEPT for a clear exception that's more notable now after friday:



http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/28/nyregion/weapons-ban-is-approved-by-connecticut-senate.html

Tell me one.

I would like to add to this, stuff such as violent movies, music, shows etc really should not be used as an excuse. That stuff is in every country, we got it all down here in AUS and UK, compare the murder rates of London to any major city in the US.
Clearly guns are responsible for most of this, hate that argument that bad guys would just use knives etc anyway. You take guns out of the US (make it extremely hard to get them) the murder rates will fall, accidental shootings would also fall. Make it near impossible for these nut jobs who do these school shootings to get guns. A crazed guy over here would find it near impossible to get hold of a gun no matter how desperate he was. Hell you can't even get bb Guns over here LOL.

And what about the Oklahoma City bombing? He killed 19 kids all under the age of 6 with a bomb in a federal building that housed offices for the D.E.A., A.T.F, and Secret Service, not a gun, and yet you can still get the stuff needed to make that sort of weapon. The problem isn't guns, the problem is we live in a world that unfortunately has some people in it who are sick, twisted, and fucked up who have no regard for human life, be it children or adult, whatsoever. Even if gun regulations were tightened, you still have guns on the street being smuggled in illegally. If you take guns out of the equation, say you have someone who wants to do something like this, cause serious harm, they'll find something to use regardless of what it is.

This actually gives me hope as a political centrist. If a guy like Joe Scarborough can cross the street and buck the NRA, there's hope for politicians on all sides.

CHANGE OF HEART: Conservative Joe Scarborough stuns with call for gun control

The former congressman and MSNBC host shocked viewers when he confessed that the slaughter at Sandy Hook had changed his heart about gun control. He says, 'our Bill of Rights does not guarantee gun manufacturers the absolute right to sell military-styled high-caliber semi-automatic combat assault rifles with high capacity magazines to whoever the hell they want.

By Kristen A. Lee / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Monday, December 17, 2012, 5:28 PM

Joe Scarborough, the Republican congressman turned MSNBC host, stunned viewers on Monday with a wrenching 10-minute monologue confessing to a change of heart on gun control following the devastating massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

"I am a conservative Republican who received the NRA's highest ratings over four terms in Congress," Scarborough said during the lengthy statement in which his eyes sometimes appeared filled with tears. He said he has "always taken a libertarian's approach to Hollywood's 1st Amendment rights and gun collectors' 2nd Amendment rights."

But he said "the ideologies of my past career were no longer relevant" after Friday's tragic events, in which 20 young children and six adults were brutally cut down by one disturbed young man armed with assault weapons.

"Entertainment moguls do not have an absolute right to glorify murder while spreading mayhem in young minds across America," he said. "And our Bill of Rights does not guarantee gun manufacturers the absolute right to sell military-styled high-caliber semi-automatic combat assault rifles with high capacity magazines to whoever the hell they want."

"Politicians can no longer be allowed to defend the status quo," Scarborough said. "They must instead be forced to defend our children."

Only five months ago, following the mass shooting at the Aurora movie theater in Colorado, Scarborough had resisted wading into a gun control debate.

At the time he said it was "unfortunate" that activists on both sides of the issue were talking politics while the victims' families were in mourning.

He also suggested that gun control advocates had lost the debate for good back in the 1990s, when conservative Democrats "killed" gun control legislation pushed by former President Clinton.

"I think this debate has been had," he concluded.

On Monday morning, however, he said that Sandy Hook "changed everything. It must It must change everything. We all must begin anew and demand that Washington's old way of doing business is no longer acceptable."

But while this is the first time Scarborough has apparently broken with the NRA, it is far from the first time MSNBC's "Morning Joe" host has broken with members of his own party.

After the 2011 shooting in Tucson that gravely wounded former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed six others, he scolded Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck for their inflammatory rhetoric about the tragedy, like Palin's comments accusing her critics of "blood libel."

"As a conservative who had a 100 percent rating with the National Rifle Association and the Gun Owners of America over my four terms in Congress, I wonder why some on the right can't defend the Second Amendment without acting like jackasses," he wrote in an opinion piece for Politico.

Here are Scarborough's full remarks as prepared for delivery on Monday:

Today, we as a nation grieve. Today, we as a people feel helpless. Helpless to stop these random acts of violence that seem to be getting less random by the day.

It may the geographic proximity of Newtown to my hometown, or the fact my children's ages average those of the 20 young children tragically killed on Friday, or the fact my second son has Aspergers, or the fact that too many other facts associated with Friday's nightmare strike so close to home. that for me, there is no escaping the horrors visited upon the children and teachers of Sandy Hook.

The events that occurred in a short, violent outburst on Friday, December 14, 2012, were so evil that no words that I know of have yet been invented to sufficiently describe the horror experienced by 20 precious first grade students, their heroic principal, their anguished parents or the shocked New England town that will never be the same.

There is no way to capture the final moments of these children's short lives or the loss and helplessness their parents must feel today. There is nothing they can do, there is nothing any of us can do, to ease their pain this morning, or to cause these little children to run back into the loving arms of their family members this Christmas season.

Soon, we will watch the burials of these babies. We will hold up their parents in prayer. And we will hold our own children tighter as we thank God every afternoon watching them walk off their school bus and into our arms.

But every American must know - from this day forward - that nothing can ever be the same again.

We have said this before: after Columbine, after Arizona, after Aurora, after so many other numbing hours of murder and of massacre.

But let this be out true landmark; let Newtown be the hour after which, in the words of the New Testament, we did all we could to make all things new.

Politicians can no longer be allowed to defend the status quo. They must instead be forced to protect our children.

Parents can no longer take "No" for an answer from Washington when the topic turns to protecting children.

The violence we see spreading from shopping malls in Oregon, to movie theaters in Colorado, to college campuses in Virginia, to elementary schools in Connecticut, is being spawned by the toxic brew of a violent pop culture, a growing mental health crisis and the proliferation of combat-styled guns.

Though entrenched special interests will try to muddy the issues, the cause of these sickening mass shootings is no longer a mystery to common-sense Americans. And blessedly, there are more common-sense Americans than there are special interests, even if it doesn't always seem that way. Good luck to the gun lobbyist or Hollywood lawyer who tries to blunt the righteous anger of ten million parents by hiding behind a twisted reading of our Bill of Rights.

Our government rightly obsesses day and night over how to prevent the next 9/11 from being launched from a cave in Afghanistan or a training base in Yemen. But perhaps now is the time to begin obsessing over how to stop the next attack on a movie theater, a shopping mall, a college campus or a first grade class.

The battle we now must fight, and the battle we must now win is for the safety and sanity of our children, and that is the war at home.

It's not all about guns, or all about violent movies and videogames. But we must no longer allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. And we must not excuse total inaction by arguing that no single action can solve the problem and save our children.

I am a conservative Republican who received the NRA's highest ratings over 4 terms in Congress. I saw the debate over guns as a powerful, symbolic struggle between individual rights and government control. In the years after Waco and Ruby Ridge, the symbolism of that debate seemed even more powerful to my colleagues and me.

But the symbols of that ideological struggle have since been shattered by the harvest sown from violent, mind-numbing video games and gruesome Hollywood movies that dangerously desensitizes those who struggle with mental health challenges. Add military-styled weapons and high capacity magazines to that equation and tragedy can never be too far behind.

There is no easy ideological way forward. If it were only so simple as to blame Hollywood or the NRA, then our task could be completed in no time. But I come to you this morning with a heavy heart and no easy answers. Still, I have spent the past few days grasping for solutions and struggling for answers, while daring to question my long held beliefs on these subjects.

I have always taken a libertarian's approach to Hollywood's 1st Amendment rights and gun collectors' 2nd Amendment rights. I stood by those libertarian beliefs after Columbine, Aurora and Arizona. Those young men who slaughtered innocents were crazy, after all, and they would have found another way to kill their victims if their guns of choice were not available.

But last Friday a chilling thought crossed my mind as I saw the Times Square ticker over ABC spit out the news of yet another tragic shooting in yet another tortured town by yet another twisted son of that community.

How could it be that I knew within seconds of reading that scrolling headline that the shooter would be an isolated middle class white male who spent his days on his computer playing video games? How did I know that it was far more likely that he had a mental condition than a rational motive? And how did I know the end of this story before the real reporting even began?

I knew the ending of that story because I've seen it all too often before. I also knew that day that the ideologies of my past career were no longer relevant to the future that I want for my children.

Friday changed everything. It must change everything. We All must begin anew and demand that Washington's old way of doing business is no longer acceptable.

Entertainment moguls do not have an absolute right to glorify murder while spreading mayhem in young minds across America.

And our Bill of Rights does not guarantee gun manufacturers the absolute right to sell military-styled high-caliber semi-automatic combat assault rifles with high capacity magazines to whoever the hell they want.

It is time for Congress to put children before deadly dogmas. It's time for politicians to start focusing more on protecting our school yards than putting together their next fundraiser. And it's time Washington stops trying to win endless wars overseas and instead starts focusing on winning the war at home.

We have already given up too much ground across America. We have already ceded too many schoolyards and shopping malls, movie theaters and college campuses. We will give no more ground.

Abraham Lincoln once said of this great and powerful nation.

"From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia.could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide."

For the sake of my four children, I choose life. And I choose change. It is time to turn over the tables inside the temple, for the sake of our children and for the sake of this great nation that we love.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...8#ixzz2FPyAFdND

here's a few...


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2016..._cid=featured-4

http://www.forensicsguy.com/benchnotes/ccw-holder-saves-a-life/

http://concealedadvantage.weebly.com/ccw-stories.html

http://www.concealedcarrysaveslives.com/2011/01/las-vegas-ccw-holder-defends-himself-2/

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?54488-US-CCW-Permit-Holder-Saves-Woman-s-Life

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/concea...s-murderer.html

http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/08/concealed-carry-permit-holder-saves-clerk/

these are just some exapmles of ccw holders saving lives, i didn't even bother to list any instances where homeowners were able to defend themselves, there are too many stories to even begin to list, they just go on forever on google. check some of them out!

Okay, I'll preface this by again stating that I'm a gun owner. I'm licensed out of necessity in both Florida and New York State. I have assets to protect and I'm not ashamed of that. Actually, I'm quite proud of that. Anyway, I think I'm pretty middle of the road (read: objective) on the matter, and I'll again state that assault weapons are not for private citizens.

So just answer me this and be honest enough to give me a one word answer, yes or no: If Lanza's mother didn't have an assault weapon in her home last Friday, could he have killed all those people?

I'll tell you my answer to the question: It's a big fat NO. Even if he showed up with half a dozen handguns someone might have rushed him and a few lives would have been spared. Hell, if one life was spared, then in my opinion that would justify the ban on assault weapons forever in this country.

^^^ I agree on that

That's because you're a smart kid. For a Philadelphian .

When I was in school I took a criminal justice class as an elective and the whole man's house is man's castle theory isn't always true god damn someone breaks in your house you kill them you might be doing 5 years for manslaughter

You see, DN. I think that's ridiculous. I'm not a "gun nut," but I am a gun owner. And if a guy threatens your family in your home, then you have the God given right to shoot the fucker dead. But no one needs an assault rifle to blow off steam up in the mountains.

Yeah I agree. I was just saying there are so many variables that come into play. If a 100 women kills a 240 man then thats justified....I know what you mean though there is no need for people to have assault weapons

Take the Movie Three Kings For Example..

very well said. I agree.

PB & DNM

See, that's a start. At least you both acknowledge there is no real need for assault weapons. I assume, it's illegal to have a grenade in your home? Or a bomb? Because, of course, for what purpose would you have such a weapon, right? Is that taking away anyone's 2nd amendment rights? Btw, the "don't take my rights away" whine IS bullshit because that is NOT what anyone is aiming for. Thanks for not having tunnelvision on this.

I refuse to accept NOTHING be done. As the President said in his speech Sunday, "are we just gonna accept these things as routine?" Not me. We MUST address it.

Btw, where is the NRA in this. I hear crickets. I hear they took down their FB/Twitter pages as well. Can't take the heat?

TIS

Seriously, there's no other way to say it. But FUCK the NRA. With a big, fat F-U-C-K. They've had too much power in this country for far too long. They make all gun owners look like hillbillies and it's time that they had their wings clipped.

It's funny you mention that, cause sometimes I'll hear/see certain people bitching about 2nd amendment, guns, etc. and I can't help but picture a Jethro Bodine. "Please daddy don't let them take my toys away."

TIS

The only movie i could see anyone blaming for a shooting like this or the Colorado theater one would be Rampage...in fact, when i heard about the Colorado one and the outfit the guy was wearing, my mind first went to that movie.

Yeah; life, liberty and the pursuit of moonshine.

Btw, I hear Joe Scarborough and a couple others say they had an NRA rating A. What exactly does that mean?




TIS

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, Tis. But I give the guy credit for risking the wrath of his party and making an enemy of the NRA. I posted an article about it above.

The NRA rates conressmen, senators and candidates, based on how they've voted on gun issues. An A rating for Scarborough means that while he was in Congress he voted favorably for the NRA agenda consistently.

They go after officials who do not.

Gosh, that doesn't sound like something I'd brag about no? They are that controlled by the NRA? Wow, more than I thought


TIS

What a difference a few days can make. Until Friday morning, Discovery Channel's "American Guns" was generally regarded as a popular, not especially complicated show about the travails of a family of gun sellers. In the aftermath of the devastating murders at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the show's become a symbol of our culture's fraught but durable love affair with guns. After hundreds of Facebook users besieged the show's page, calling for its end, they got their wish: The network has canceled the show.

I've seen RAMPAGE..if you have Netflix you can stream it...It's downright DISTURBING...It's a little over the top..but it goes to show what a fully automatic weapons can do in such little time

In the midtermelections of 1994 Speaker of the House Tom Foley was defeated. He was the first Speaker of the House to lose an election in more than a hundred years, and he was the #1 target of the NRA, the most powerful political lobby on earth.

The organization dates back to the 1800s, but didn't become politically proactive until the early 1970s.

I posted earlier in this thread that conservative Supreme Court Justice called their campaign to establish a misleading interpretation of the Second Amendment as one of the biggest frauds on the American public by special interest groups.

I really hate to get into a debate here, but it kills me to listen to some of the crap I am reading. As PB says in New York State all people who would like to have a hand gun must get a license. Not hard to get but some times the waiting list is long and can take months at times depending on the county you live in. Most of these are for you to own and transport your gun to and from places such as the range etc. This does not give you the right to walk around town like the old west.
Rifle, shotguns or long guns do not need to be licensed. But a background call is made when you buy from a dealer, but not from a private sale.

If you like you can apply for what they call a CC permit or concealed carry or Carry licensee. A lot harder to get now, but some older ones were grandfather in from many years ago. This allows me to carry a firearm at any time except in certain places. I am not to carry into banks, schools and Federal buildings for examples. I admit that I have forgotten once and have taken mine into the bank. All my firearms are recorded on my licensee of what I own and can carry.

I have taken advance training with law enforcement personal and ATF agents. I belong to and practice at indoor and outdoor ranges and have taken several class on defensive gun usage. Gun ownership is no joke and never to be taken lightly. Unless I have my gun with me it has a trigger lock on it and is in the gun safe that we own. So that is a little bit on my background, not to brag but to make you aware.

Problem is that people throw the words Assault weapon around when many times these are not assault weapons being used. Assault looking or semi automatic is not an assault weapon. Damn they have BB guns that look like them in style but that doesn't make it an assault weapon.Assault weapons are (FULLY Automatic) Hold the triger and they just keep on shooting till the gun is empty is an easy way to explain it. The press added terms like high powered hand guns and professional quality guns? I may be wrong but I heard that he also had single shot weapons and non semi automatic guns also even if he didn't enter the building with them.
This kid with his problems should have never been anywhere near these guns even with his mother, period. He was unstable at best and his mother and others paid the price for her mistake.

Sorry PB but this kid even without a semi automatic weapon was going to walk all thru that school until he was stopped by officer with another weapon. This school was the perfect storm. Taught to take the children to a safe area and wait. These little angels aren't going to rush anyone and the teachers had the kids to worry about. They we told to lock their door and wait for help. Schools are a gun free zone remember. He could have reload several times with the time factor being his only problem. Then he took his life when real help showed up.

And most gun owners swear that if they were there they would have taken him down. Another half baked tale. Any class will teach you the fear factor and the training it takes to overcome it. Gun ownership doesn't make you brave unless you are stupid. You train to be able to point that weapon and possible take a life under extreme stress no matter what you think you could do most will not when the time comes.

Now listen to the tribe all get flamed up and egged on about the evil gun empire.
Please learn what a REAL assault weapon is before you call for the collection of all firearms is all I am saying. Assault weapons are never needed as far as I am concern.

Now taking Guns from BAD people is a must. Street gangs, Drug groups etc. But you see how good we have been with that, or the drugs trade or drunk driving. Shit how many weapons did the feds lose down in Mexico?

The good people are the only ones that follow the laws, and the easy ones to take guns away from I guess.

I hope we finally get help to those parents who have kids that need more help then their parents can give them. That would be the real first step in stopping this type of evil event. But that cry isn't as grand as fighting the evil gun empire. And they have been taking money from mental health ever time there is a need to save money...so look what it has produced. It takes something like this to happen before some $$ will be once again spent.

Everyone be safe and find some love in your hearts for the other guy once in a while.

PB, I like you alot but when you make fun of hillbillies it pisses me off. My family are hillbillies. My husband is a hillbilly. There are good and bad in all people. Would it be right of me to say ALL muslims are terrorists?

The top 3 selling video games of 2012 were of the violent shoot 'em up type.

"Call of Duty" and "World of Warcraft" were reportedly Adam Lanza's favorite games.

The Kaiser Family Foundation reported that the Average 8-18 year-old spends 53 hours a week on computer/watching TV/playing videogames.

http://www.kff.org/entmedia/entmedia012010nr.cfm

i don't really care for the bashing and sterotyping of southers either. from my experience, they will do more for you than the majority of people living in a urban setting. just a quick example, a few years ago, me and a friends father broke down on the side of the road in west virginia, out of cell phone range, on a very deserted road. the first car that passed stopped by and tried to help jump the car. when that didn't work, this lady drove us 15 miles in the opposite direction of the way she was traveling to a small gas station. on top of that, she absolutly refused any money. now, people are more than willing to help out here in nj, but its the exception rather than the rule, down south, it seems to be the complete opposite!

Obama backs Assault Weapons ban



http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2012/12/18/obama-backs-assault-weapons-ban.html

Is anybody really against any of those 3 proposed measures? Not exactly abolishing the 2nd Amendment. Sounds all like Common Sense to me.

Was it this thread or elsewhere where I read about 40% of all American gun sales are private, i.e. gun shows and Internet but not at gun stores, which under the Brady Bill are mandated to run background checks on prospective gun owners?

That's why I love going to KY. The people are so friendly and talk to you like they've known you all there life. A couple years ago we were at a "Mom & Pop" type restaurant and we had a flat tire, some guy gave us his portable air pump and told us to bring it back to him after we got the tire fixed.

i can one up you a few years ago, i was at a small gas station/deli/general store with a few friends, we stopped to use the atm. it was broken, so the owner lent me the money, on the condition that i pay it back. what makes it even more amazing, this guy knows my face, but he knows i don't even live in that state, he's just seen me a few times over the years and we've made small talk. needless to say, i took him up on the offer, and paid him back that next morning, unreal

It's great knowing that there are still good people in the world.

I was just trying to point out that gun owners are often unfairly sterotyped as such, Mig. So in my own way I was sticking up for the gun owner. But let's be honest, city dwellers and rural people are different. Over the years you've hinted that most New Yorkers are moneyed snobs, when that couldn't be further from the truth.


But you're not from an urban setting, FF. You're from a Mid-Jersey suburb. You have no more in common with a native New Yorker than someone from Kentucky. So are you really being objective when you say that? I know plenty of city people who'd give you the shirt off their backs. That we're all rude is as much an unfair stereotype as the hillbilly stereotype.

And as I've pointed out, I love traveling through the South .

Please refresh my memory when I've done that. If I've done that then shame on me that's wrong.

bottom line to me, there are good and bad examples of all people. to classify ANY group by the lowest common denominator is wrong, and i'm sure i've been guilty of that before myself. pb, if most new yorkers are as level headed as you, we are in good shape. i wish you were my uncle

To be fair, most of us in Central Jersey are native New Yorkers.

Then how come Geoff don't speak good Italian?

I think I'm gonna cry .

Okay, you'll call me Zee Abeetz. I like it!


No doubt. I have a bunch of cousins that moved to Long Branch back in the '70s. I'm very familiar with that particular part of Monmouth County (because of that AND Monmouth Park in the Summer), and I really enjoy the area .

Michigan Gov. vetoes concealed Guns bill

http://www.freep.com/article/20121218/NEWS06/121218057/snyder-to-veto-gun-bill?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE

Don't have the story at my fingertips but also read today that Synder's poll ratings really have taken a dive since his "right to work" bill. It's around (?) 32%. Not surprised (and actually glad) at all. Hope he gets his ass voted out next election.



TIS

Looks like a Republican electoral map, Ronnie .

how is new york so low

Because for all the crime that you read about in New York, it's very difficult to get illegal guns here. Plus, it's an automatic three years if you're caught with one. Guaranteed three, no matter who you are (just ask Plaxico Burress). That's a pretty good deterrent.

Wow, this IS a story to me. I worked summer school there a few times, but both my kids went to and graduated from this High school. Apparently a student from Canyon Springs High School, Moreno Valley, CA, threatened to kill a teacher.


TIS


http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8924231

And since the Oklahoma City bombing, a horrendous act, how many repeats of them have we seen? And since Columbine, how many spree shootings have we seen? Which cries out for more attention?

And as for this nonsense about hillbillies v. New Yorkers, how about we remember that this thread was originally about the deaths of 28 people, 20 of them who won't see their 8th birthdays, and who are being laid to rest this week.

Before this turns into a pissing contest about guns and bombs and video games, let's remember that there are 28 families in unbearable agony as we speak, that they are experiencing a hell on earth that none of us can possibly imagine.

God bless their souls.

This has to be an absolutely heartbreaking week in CT. They will have 28 funerals.

A lot of stories about the victims are coming to light this week as well as beautiful pictures of these innocent little angles.

I heard earlier today, one darling little girl (I think the one who has a twin brother)was taking the attendance to the office and escaped the killer who went to her classroom. She went to another classroom after hearing gunshots.


TIS

I look at the pictures of the little ones and they were so adorable, so full of life. It breaks my heart. I remember my girls at that age, and I can't begin to understand the breadth and depth of the pain their families are experiencing.

There is one picture that gets me. Catherine is the little girl with the bright red hair, that smile and that hair and those freckles just kill me.

I know. They ALL so sweet, innocent & adorable.



On another note, just breaking here in CA, San Jose Junior College is on lock down after reports of a gunman on campus.


TIS

Horrible, TIS! So glad my girls are home for the semester!

This is so sad. Boy's favorite teacher cradles him as both get killed. Parents say this boy liked the teacher so much that there was a picture of her on the fridge.


TIS

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/...n-her-arms?lite

Funeral after funeral after funeral. They're all going to be buried over the next week. How do you survive something like that?

Deaths from firearms are set to outstrip car fatalities for the first time, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and reported by Bloomberg News.

The CDC estimates that auto-related deaths--long on the decline as more motorists wear seat-belts and face harsher penalties for drunk driving--will fall to 32,000 in 2015. Deaths from firearms, which include suicides and accidents, are estimated to rise to 33,000 over the same period.

Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides. This figure is still lower than 1993's peak in gun deaths (37,666), but has risen significantly since firearm deaths reached a low in 2000 (28,393). The data goes back to 1979.

Forget the gun debate for just a minute. Has anyone read about these scam artists looking to make a buck off of this tragedy?

They should fucking die .

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/12/19/newtown-shooting-tragedy-scam-artists/?ncid=webmail1

what pieces of shit

Heard about stuff like this on the radio last night. Truly revolting.

It never fails to amaze me that when tragedy strikes, it can bring out the best in people, but the other side of the coin is that out from under the rocks emerge the absolute lowest forms of human vermin.

Meanwhile, more funerals and wakes are scheduled for today.


Signor V.

Tar & Feathers anyone?

How about this?

Did anybody watch any of that NRA Press conference yesterday?

The call for cops/armed guards in schools is a good start, but merely a bandaid by itself. Couple it with the other reform measures suggested, i.e. ban assault weapons, close some Brady Bill loopholes, tighten up measures to make sure loons don't get a piece, etc.

But otherwise, Jesus Christ. I fully expected them to give cookie cutter, ameniable talk of "finding common answers to these problems" and whether they're would'be been serious about any reform (they aren't), poltiically they would've try to run out the clock and let the public lose interest and move onto another issue or news event.

Instead victimization was the name of the game. We're the real victims of this tragedy. Not all those dead kids, WE ARE! Then going off about how violent movies and video games are to blame for that tragedy. Yes because that's always (I mean never) worked for liberals whenever they try to pull that card. Remember many people at one time wanted to ban the Three Stooges because of their "violence" and kids poking each other's eyes.

Then it gets just weird.



Yes an evil conspiracy that are the REAL culprits! OK let's say this is true just for a moment. Using this logic, wouldn't you be doing everything possible to KEEP guns from people's hands and not help and enable this evil shady conspiracy? How bizarre, I'm sure for a handful of people it makes perfect sense except for the rest of us it comes off as pure gibberish and crazytalk.

Even the right wing NYP (rightfully) shit on that press conference.

I saw it and was wondering if anyone would comment on it here. Pretty shocking. I've never seen/heard anybody walk in a school armed with a movie, video game, or song and kill 28 people. GUNS though, that's another story.

The Middle school I worked for for 22 yrs. had a police officer on campus BUT he (or she) would be assigned to 3 different campuses (budget was a District issue) and wasn't there the entire day. He'd be available to us via a phone call should an emergency occur. He was uniformed, carried a gun. However, by all accounts, it seems his gun would be a cap gun as opposed to what Lanza was carrying. Plus, he'd have to be at the particular entrance a perp choose which is unlikely since the officer could be anywhere on campus. So what, we need to have our schools surrounded by guns. I don't think so.

TIS

When the Post mocks you as a Gun Nut, you've obviously dropped the ball. The guy came off as a robotic spokesperson, plain and simple. And I love how he wants to ban video games. Isn't it funny how he'd piss all over the First Amendment to protect the Second?

PB

I thought the same thing. For him (and others) it's all about the 2nd amendment but SCREW the first amendment.

Seriously, as much as I expected the NRA to NOT blame guns, I would have expected him to come off a bit more sympathetic and willing to at least reach out a bit. He came off as very cold/uncaring.

TIS

NRA really punked out, as we used to say when I was a kid. First they shut down their social media for five days. Then LaPierre made his statement and walked off, refusing to take questions. They were not only afraid--they acted guilty, as if all the criticisms of the NRA came home to roost in the CT massacre.

That said, if it were feasible to put one or more armed guards in schools, that'd be a lot more effective than simply banning assault weapons and high-capacity mags. There are 3 million AR-15's in circulation--and they aren't the only assault rifles in peoples' hands. And, a reinstated ban also wouldn't affect the high-cap mags already in circulation, and those made before a ban went into place.

My fear is that well-meaning people will enact gun controls and think the problem is solved--until the next massacre. We need to look at how we diagnose, treat and report mental health issues--pro and con. And, even if you don't like NRA (and I don't), we still need to address why violence is so deeply ingrained in our culture.

I hate that the result of this tragedy is going to be a knee jerk reaction against guns.

I couldn't and still can't stand to watch the news. It just seems like hey let's milk this tragedy for all it's worth! Instead of anyone actually caring. And the night it happened people started in about the gun debate.

I am very pro-gun and all, but there is a reason I only had an NRA membership once. It's crazy extremist propaganda instead of an intelligent, sane, organization about firearms. The Obama fear mongering flyers were really bad turn-offs. But now he's pushing for fun control, so..

i was far from impressed with the response of the nra, but lets be honest, there wasn't really much they could say and not have people jump all over them. i actually thought it was wise to remain quiet for a few days, rather than start trying to further their agenda like all the other groups seemed to do. the problem is, with an organization as big as them that represents so many different people as they do, its always gonna be an uphill battle to get across the thoughts of everybody associated with them the same as any other large political group/lobby.

I don't know why LaPierre stated anything. He should have conveyed his sympathies and donated money on behalf of the NRA. It's less than 2 years until the next Congressional elections and LaPierre's statements will have an effcet on them.

Cornel West: 'Coward' Obama Doesn't Care When 'Black Folk' Get Shot, Only When 'Vanilla' Children Do

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/20...lla-children-do

Interesting enough I never heard about this before.

LaPierre's remarks 17 years ago after the Oklahoma City bombing disgusted Former President George H.W. Bush enough to resign his lifetime N.R.A. membership.



http://beingliberal.tumblr.com/post/3855...ional-rifle-ass

From a firearms expert, anti gunners read this

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hate to use the title of expert but to give it a heading I thought I'd use it cause that's what the Federal and local courts recognize me as.

I have well over 25 years experience as an firearms and tactics instructor for the largest law enforcement agency in the world. I spent 11 of those years as Senior instructor in charge of its swat team and the dignitary protection unit and the rest of my time training recruits. street cops, federal law enforcement agencies and special ops branches of the military. I'm giving you my background because I'm not some news reporter, actor, politician or bleeding heart hoping for the world to love each other. I'm a professional whose job has been teaching people to shoot someone mostly in a close quarter battle.

I don't think that someone with mental problems should have access to firearms. Nor do I think someone who is having domestic problems should have a firearm in their home. This is something that is taught to police officers by their instructors during the weapons safe guarding course. they are better off leaving the guns at work in their lockers. A civilian has to use common sense and make a decision on what to do. they cant leave it in their locker. Having a firearm may be a right but you have to be responsible.

I'm not going to call them assault rifles cause that's not what they are. Semi automatic rifles that bear the features of a real assault rifle have been labeled as such to get a rise out of the clueless public by the media and politicians who are boosting their egos and pockets with this agenda. They say you will be safer if these weapons become illegal, BULLSHT. So they get rid of them but leave low capacity weapons alone. I can still inflict the same damage with carrying one gun and reloading or have several guns on me. If I don't want to do that I can use the stuff that killed 168 people in the Oklahoma bombing. Think of it, how stupid is it to make a gun illegal cause it has a flash suppressor or a folding stock. The weapon works the same as it did when the stock was wood but it doesn't have that hollywood look. Weapons, drugs and anything else will always be gotten on the black market. Look at what a team of guys did to our country with box cutters, they changed the way we live.

Some will say that you should have a psych test prior to owning a firearm. I'm not a doctor, I'm sure that you'll catch some crazies that way but in my job some have slipped through. We have murder suicides happen, cops that become criminals, contract killers, we even have one that's being investigated as a possible serial killer who wanted to eat his victims. I guess the doctors missed that one.

The NRA came out with a statement saying that schools should have armed security or police. Anti gunner bloomberg says that it's foolish but what he doesn't tell the public is that he has 350 cops assigned to the bad schools around the city. Then you have the news reporters who act like they have my background giving advice on proper tactics for the schools and in the home. How foolish is that.

The media and the politicians cause people to freak out and run to gun stores clearing the shelves out. Those people know that the GOV. isn't going to be in their homes protecting them when the bad guy comes in. The GOV are protected by a 24 hour protection detail that are armed to the teeth with weapons that would make your eyes pop out if you saw them. But the public are told by politicians who are not firearms trainers that they don't need such weapons to protect themselves, only they can have them. so this is the gun that I will let you have. Gee thanks, whats the bad guy carrying. Police around the country complained that they wanted semi auto handguns to combat the bad guys because they felt out gunned. How about you.

People post stats of gun crime reduction as a result of a ban in the USA and abroad. Don't be so quick to buy into it. My department has been twisting figures for years to make themselves look good. What's down played are the times people have saved themselves or someone else cause that would make the politicians freak. they don't want people arming themselves.

I've heard this time and again that if you have a gun in the house for protection it's going to be used on you. I just heard firearms instructor Bloomberg saying this on the news this evening. How dare he tell someone to stand there and be a victim without fighting back. Everyone has the right to defend themselves. If you feel that you don't want a gun fine. If you think your alarm will save you great or the lights that you have around the house give you that warm feeling of safety enjoy. I'll use deadly physical force as it's defined by the state of NY penal law. Then I'll turn on the lights.

Why no link?

What a load of crap. How about the fact that if you have a gun in your home, it is 17 times more likely to be used in a suicide, homicide or accidental shooting than in self-defense? Or is that one of those "statistics" that are slanted?

I'm not against guns by any means. I come from a family of hunters and I believe that people should have the right to legally own guns if they want to hunt, or feel the need to protect themselves. However, high-capacity magazines and assault weapons should be banned. These are military style weapons and the only people who should ever have them are the military or law enforcement. They have no place in the general population.

These shootings keep happening, and with increasing frequency, and with higher and higher body counts. You know what that tells me? That the current system doesn't work. And when it's broke you need to fix it.

You don't need a gun for violence. On the same day as the shooting in Ct. school a man broke into a school in China and used a knife to cut, slash, and dismember 22 students. Here is the big question??? Was it the knife or the man that committed the violence..

Do These Mass Shootings Really Only Happen in America?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Top Five Worst Gun (Single Shooter) Mass Shootings:

1) Anders Breivik Norway 7/22/2011 77 killed, 151 wounded.

2) Woo Bum-Kon S. Korea 4/26/1982 57 killed, 35 wounded.

3) Martin Bryant Australia 4/28/1996 35 killed, 21 wounded.

4) Seung-Hui Cho USA 4/16/2007 32 killed, 25 wounded.

5) Campo Delgado Columbia 12/4/86 30 killed, 15 wounded.

http://www.top5ofanything.com/index.php?h=db8a4490

Madness is not something particular to America. It can and does happen anywhere.

The absolute most any law can do is make it slightly more difficult for a given individual to get certain tools, so a law banning X could well result in the killer using Y, which might be even more deadly in effect. (can't easily -or cheaply- get an "assault weapon, so use a bomb, or gasoline and a match....etc..)

We cannot read minds. There is no way to determine who is going to snap, or when. Some give hints, or clues, but by no means all do. And recognizing those clues for what they are, BEFORE a violent act is committed is seldom possible.

There is no easy fix, and world history seems to show that there is really no "fix" at all, at least not so long as mankind remains what we are. The only thing I am certain about, is that no gun control law (or any kind of law) will prevent it happening again, somewhere, sometime.

And the people telling us that it will, or that "if it saves just one..." are either woefully ignorant, or deliberately lying to us, and themselves.

Quibbling over the definition of an assault weapon is silly. All it does is deflect attention from the issue at hand.

Here's an idea: "Assault weapon" or not, if it repeats and repeats and repeats, you know, like a "machine gun" in the old time war movies, then a private citizen has no fucking business owning such a weapon. And if Obama (a man who I was more than a little disappointed with in his first term) finds a way to deregulate them and strikes a victory against the NRA, then I hope it defines his Presidency. I'll never criticize him again.

Fuck the NRA, their screwball President and their Second Amendment obsessed supporters. And again, I legally own three guns with licenses in both Florida and New York State. But no one needs an assault, er, scratch that, no one needs a weapon that repeats and repeats and repeats.

Very interesting Rant my friend... I hear your opinion loud and clear even with the foul words, which I usally find are use by people far to often these days.

Be a friend and calmly tell me what firearms you own and why you have them and of course if you ever had to use them for the reason you thought you needed them for. Do yopu carry everyday? and if so why?

Not looking to debate here, just looking for some background from you since you keep saying that you own guns.
I always like to know a little bit about the person so I can judge better.

You really seem to dislike the NRA. I see that thousands and thousand have joined the NRA these last few days since the talk of firearm bans.
Do you think they are trying to send a message of support in keeping their rights to hold these arms?

All suppliers are reporting record sales of all types of weapons and amo sales are through the roof. Included in these long lines are Police and other department agents who also want to get something in case of a ban. Why do you feel it is so important for so many to want or need these weapons?

I know that this issue is hotter then a boiling pot with the lid steaming.

If you look on some law enforcemnet blogs or real gun sites, you will find very few rants, but very good posts by people who can talk about these subjects and take it very serious.

I hope to see more of this on here.

BTW. I understand you served in our profession in NY. So you have worked with the families who have lost loved ones due to these type of crimes, gangs, drugs and suicides. It is never easy sitting down with them and getting them through the worst times of their lifes.

Be safe and take care of one another.

pizzaboy is a good guy, so don't be too hard on him. the problem i have, is if they didn't have the "assault weapons" boogyman to work with here, they would have just as easily substituted handguns. thats they problem with liberals on the gun issue. they claim to not want to "take all your guns", but if modern sporting rifles are banned and something happens with a handgun, they will become the next target. ditto for shotguns, until all we are left with is bolt-action rifles that are required by law to be locked up in a safe at all times, effectively making self defense impossible. who even needs them, only black powder should be permitted for hunting, even though the 2nd amendment has nothing at all to do with hunting.

i get frustrated with people on this topic, but i'm not mad as they are just doing what they think is best. unfortunatly, people often fail to grasp the bigger picture. guns are the ultimate symbol of freedom and self reliance, and once that is slowly eroded by playing on peoples emotions, then what? i hate this idea of "you don't need that". its silly at best, and dangerous at worst. although they are different things, you don't "need" a car with 400+ hp. you don't "need" a motorcycle. once the socialist healthcare goes into place, you might not "need" to go skydiving, whitewater rafting, or any of the countless other dangerous activities as might be deemed such by the government. governments all throughout history are about one thing, control, ours is no different. i try not to focus on the "what ifs", but you always have to keep in mind these extremes when making decisions.

i try not to pay much attention at all to any gun statistic, because they are so easily manipulated, but i think turnbull said there are something like 3 million ar style rifles in circulation. a few people make dumb decisions with said rifles, and the knee-jerk reaction is to ban all of them? sound logic right there.

where are all these so called "liberals" at who claim to care so much for children,when we have blown up hundreds in the past few years in pakistan under a nobel piece prize winning president?

No problem Five,
I was not being hard on anyone, just an honest post. Looking for an honest answer without any anger from either poster.

Cam,
That attack in China was mentioned here before if I'm not mistaken. The children were wounded, but they all survived. I'm pretty sure the parents in CT would have swapped with the parents in China.

When you look at gun deaths worldwide, you would have to add the deaths in Germany, Moldova, Australia, Ireland, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, India, Hungary, Cyprus, Spain, The Netherlands, Taiwan, Belarus, the UK, Poland, Singapore, Romania, Hong Kong, Mauritius, Japan, South Korea and Chile to exceed the annual gun deaths in the United States.

The question I have that nobody seems to want to address is this: Is it because they have stricter gun laws, or are Americans more inherently violent?

no matter which side of the arguement you are on, you are sure to be able to find statistics to suite your point of view. case in point, brazil. with close to 200,000,000 million people, they have had over 30,000 homicides a year depending on what stats you look at. south africa also has an extremely high amount of gun related murders and both of those countries have extremely strict firearms laws. russia, mexico, columbia, jamaica, burma, ditto for them.

i don't think that anyone would disagree that the overwhelming majority of firearms related homicides are directly related to the drugs trade, so that has to be looked at. as unpopular as it is to say, mass shootings are a very slim % of the total murders in this country, and before anybody infers i'm heartless, my mother works as a teachers aid in a school so i take these incidents very seriously.

Shame on you. Do you really think any family would wish or trade another attack on anyone?
Using any weapon at all? God help anyone believing that kind of reasoning.

How much do you really know about that attack in China. I see Not enough to know how brutal it really was or you would not have even posted anything of the sort.

Please rethink your idea on this...PLEASE

My guess is that you have to factor the number of people we have in the U.S and the amount of guns held by them in the U.S. I do remember a post showing the world and where we stand on % of violence per capita. I will try and look for it for you.

Now let us think about what we hear about daily on the news, do you follow these other countries knowing what happens there daily, but boy, if some movie star farts crooked on a slow newsday ever news agency talks about it.
Please reread the top five posted before....It happens all over the world- Evil people do evil all over and that is a fact we must understand even if we don't see it first hand.

It's one thing to come back here and preach your agenda from your soapbox, Cami. We all do that at one time or another. But you should really drop the holier-than-thou crap. It doesn't suit you.

Sorry you feel that way, I would rather you tell me what is really wrong with what I posted.

Maybe you are just use to the name calling which I have witness here.
no holier- then crap as far as I am cocern just facts and presented with adult wording...with respect to all. And that is what I would like in return. Please?

SHAME ON ME??? Shame on YOU! It was a terrible attack in China. Children were maimed and children were grievously wounded. However, the children SURVIVED. And any of the parents in CT would have given anything to have their children alive. Yes, perhaps horribly wounded, but ALIVE.

As a parent, I can't imagine how horrible it was for those parents in China. However, at least when they wake up the next day, they can still hug and kiss their children, something that the parents in Newtown were forever robbed of.

My point, if you got off your high horse to actually look at what I wrote, is that while a knife attack is a dreadful thing, the children survived. That is the critical difference between a knife attack and an attack with the kind of repeat, repeat weapons that were used in Newtown.

Thank you for making your point of view that much clearer. I am sorry that we do not think the same way, and I guess that is the Amerivan way after all. Have a happy and safe holiday.

Babe, it is not often that I agree with you, but I do in this instance. I'd rather have my child harmed, but alive rather than, oh, I don't know ... dead.

And CDon, perhaps if you trimmed a little of the fat off of your porky post above, I would have read it in total. Indeed, a whole lot of the time, brevity is the soul of wit.

The one where the grahics didn't show? Without them I would agree no graphics, no meat, but I tried.
the graphics did answer her question. It just wasn't meant to be I guess.
I will delete it....

We go back a long time here, Cami. We know each other's style as well as some of the other old-timers. I know you're passionate about your arguments, as is Sicilian Babe about hers but I found your reply to Sicilian Babe to be very cruel and condescending. She doesn't need anyone to talk for her (as you don't either) but my remark was a knee-jerk reaction to what you wrote.

I don't think anything will change people's minds on this. I don't agree politically with the NRA. But if we are honest there are more than a few people on the gun control side who really would like to limit just about all weapons to police and military. I'm not in favor of that. The NYT had an editorial yesterday that talked about the "scourge" of concealed weapons. The NYT thought that "shall issue" permits were a bad idea and that the states should be forced by the federal government to rescind such laws.

Now whatever you may think of such laws, they have not in fact, caused increases in shootouts. The people who go to the trouble of taking the class and getting the permit generally speaking are not the people causing carnage. There won't be "reasonable" gun control discussion because people on both sides see a slippery slope.

SB,

I agree with you as well regarding China tragedy. As horrifying as it would be to have my child harmed, at least he/she wouldn't be dead.

No matter how much spin, how many articles/statistics are posted OR how many "don't take my 2nd amendment rights" are repeated (at nauseum), for God's sake, it takes more to vote (longer lines/waits) in some states than to purchase a gun. We MUST at least try to know WHO has guns to the best of our ability and BACKGROUNDS checks are NOT taking away rights.

All that being said, and as angry as this subject makes me, I still maintain that nothing will be done in the end. So gun lovers relax. For me, I refuse to accept the "there's nothing to see, everything else is to blame but guns, move on" attitude. It's hard to sit back & accept.

So, on my part, for starters, I e-mailed my local congressman (a-hole that he is) and got back a form e-mail saying "how I am working for you", blah blah, blah without even mentioning the topic of my e-mail.

TIS

Neither am I, Lilo. That's all I've been trying to say for the past week. I'd never want to put limitations on handgun, shotgun or hunting rifle ownership for those who qualify. Just the military style repeat weapons (I'm going out of my way not to call them assault weapons for fear of mislabeling them and offending their supporters). But you're right, both sides see any kind of concession as a slippery slope of some kind, which I think is ridiculous. But that's what I get for being in the middle politically. Everyone hates my opinions .

Strange but last I checked, the gun control people aren't actually advocating abolition of gun ownership. Besides the fact that has as much support in America as Jets fans do with Mark Sanchez starting another game for their team, notice what the left are calling for, among many measures proposed/discussed from that wide spectrum: Ban on sales of Assault weapons, limiting the number of bullets in a magazine clip, local/state gun buyback programs, extending the Brady Bill (and background checks) onto private sales like the Internet, not arming teachers but police/trained volunteer guards in schools*, tightening up measures to keep the mentally ill from getting guns, and so many more.

Do any of these proposals sound unreasonable?

*=Which the NRA actually advocated in their disasterous press conference on friday.

for people still confused, there is no such thing as buying guns off the internet without a backround check, nothing but spin that counts on people being unaware and uninformed of the reality. if you want to buy a weapon online, you have to have it sent to a ffl(federal firearms licensed) dealer near you, and pay a fee, as its against federal law to ship guns through the mail. the weapon you choose must comply with all state laws for the state in which its being shipped to. once it arrives at the dealer and you go to pick it up, the backround check is done there. obviously if you don't pass, you don't get the weapon.

How valuable are background checks? Why does a person purchase a gun? Well, among the reasons, one is to committ a crime. If you are a felon, it makes little sense to purchase a gun that requires a background check if your intention is to committ a crime. If you are mentally ill, it is statistically unlikely that you have been adjudicated as such by a court. Thus, it is just unlikely that there is an accessible record of your illness. So, to the extent that background checks would seem to preclude some felons and mentally ill persons from legally obtaining firearms, they are valuable, but they are no panacea.

There are a few gun control minded people who actually are calling for a ban of all private ownership of guns or something so close as to be no different. They are a small minority of course but they do exist. I don't think a total ban will ever happen. With so many guns in private hands (300 million!!!) it would be near impossible. But gun rights organizations fear monger over stuff like this. Neither side believes the other side is telling the truth about what they really want...

http://metrotimes.com/columns/ban-all-guns-now-1.1418281

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/105264/can-we-please-drop-the-gun-rights-pc-ness

http://nt.gmnews.com/news/2012-12-26/Columns/Time_to_ban_all_guns.html

http://americablog.com/2012/12/its-time-to-ban-guns-completely.html

I'm not an anti-gun nut. They have their place in society. However, there are glaring loopholes that you can drive a truck through. You should not be able to buy unlimited amounts of ammunition, like the guy in Aurora did. Private sales need to be better regulated, and that includes gun shows. An age limit needs to be set. A 10 year old can't drive a car for the obvious reasons and I believe that the same should be said for guns. A child can't possibly understand the great responsibility that goes with the weapon.

And these military-type weapons should not be available to the general public.

There are age limits for different types of guns, i know here in mass you can buy a shotgun or a rifle at 18, but you cant buy a handgun til 21 i believe it is, though it may be 24.

Nearly 250,000 and growing.

White House Petition To Recognize Westboro Baptist Church As Hate Group Becomes Most Popular Ever

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio...-group/DYf3pH2d

Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. I didn't meant to own a gun, I meant to shoot one. There are people who take their children to the shooting range and allow them to fire a weapon. They're even allowed to fire guns at some gun shows. I don't know if the laws vary by state, although I would imagine so. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a small child firing a weapon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/

That is very tragic. We've been taking our son to the firing range for a few years now. He's 16 now. He loves to go shooting. If he feels he can't handle one of our guns he don't have to shoot it.

I don't see anything wrong taking kids to the firing range if they are mature enough. It would also depend on what they were shooting.

I think giving an 8 year old an Uzi is simply stupid, and had a horribly tragic end. I was shocked to find that a child that young could go to a gun show and be handed such a weapon! There definitely needs to be a law against that.

Completely agree with that. The parents should've known better.

I would think there is an age limit in certain states as well, but that goes with the driving point you had made too, even if its illegal parents will still teach their kid how to drive at a young age by letting them. Though at a gun show, that is a bit idiotic to let a kid shot any kind of gun other than a red ryder.

I just saw this thread that shooting in sandy hook got to me and trust me on this nothing gets to me. I don't see death like other normal people see death.

But all those little angels killed bothered me.

They should be safe in school. If it takes armed guards that are not afraid to get close to a shorter before they shoot they should have them. But hard to find guys not afraid to get close to do what needs to be done.

You can not legislate guns. There too easy to get and all the legislation would mean the price if guns to the bad guys will just go up.

There was a school shooting today here in CA, Taft High School (Kern County) Fortunately nobody killed, with 2 injured, one hospitalized. Details are still coming in. The shooter, a student, is in custody.



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/high-school-shooting-taft-california-183012601.html


TIS

CNN is "Breaking" another school shooting in Texas. Just happened. Details not yet reported.




TIS

MSNBC says multiple people shot at Harris County College (Lone Star) in Texas

This must have JUST happened. Details still coming in. People told to take immediate shelter where they are. One person in custody (don't know if there are more shooters).




TIS

Here's an article on it:
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-reportedly-fired-at-local-college-4214123.php

This is pretty close to where I used to live, and Lone Star's a college that quite a few of my high school classmates have attended at some point. It was apparently a fight between two students, not a shootout against a crowd - and one of the two (or both?) had a gun.