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Colorado Shooting

Posted By: klydon1

Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 03:23 PM

Last I heard there were 13 dead and 50 injured as a result of a lunatic opening fire in a movie theatre near denver, showing a midnight screening of the new Batman movie.

My older son came home from work a little after 11pm as I was heading to bed and told me he was going to take a shower and go to a midnight showing of the movie nearby. I woke up around 4 am with ABC News reporting a massacre at the midnight showing of Batman. That made me sit up fast after a second.

The shooting took place about 20 miles from Columbine.
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 03:35 PM

God, what is happening in America? There are several of we Board members who are old enought to remmeber the days when such things were absolutely rare at best.

As I tell my classes, the Nation's population is expanding tremendously and as it does the components of it, good and bad, are expanding their numbers also. It isn't going to get any better.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
God, what is happening in America? There are several of we Board members who are old enought to remmeber the days when such things were absolutely rare at best.

As I tell my classes, the Nation's population is expanding tremendously and as it does the components of it, good and bad, are expanding their numbers also. It isn't going to get any better.

It's true. Sad, but true.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 06:38 PM

A close friend's grandson, who lives in Aurora, had planned to go to that theater last night, but changed his mind at the last moment. Thank God!
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 08:04 PM

What are babies doing at a theater?
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 08:30 PM

God help these poor people and their loved ones. This is awful. It must have been like shooting fish in a barrel.

I also heard that his home is booby-trapped and their sending a robot in. They've evacuated all the surrounding residences.
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 08:38 PM

RIP to those who life's have been taken way to soon because of a crazy gunman.

also to fuck celebboutique, the most offensive/disgusting thing to say.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/celebboutique-tweet-colorado-batman-shooting_n_1690308.html
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/20/12 08:49 PM

A horrible tragedy. For God's sake, can't even go watch a movie without having to worry that some psycho is gonna open fire? frown My heart goes out to all the victims/their families. I can't imagine the loss, not to mention the absolute shock they must be in. frown


TIS
Posted By: Mark

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 12:29 AM

My brother-in-law and his family live in Aurora, Colorado. He is a big comic/sci-fi/movie geek and loves Batman. We spoke to him on Monday night and he & his wife were counting the days/hours until the midnight showing of the movie. They both had the day off from work today because they knew they would be up all night with friends discussing the much anticipated movie they would see. At 4:30 this morning Mrs. Mark woke up with a stomach ache and said something was wrong. She got up and went to the living room and I went back to sleep. She soon returned to tell me that the shooting was all over CNN and could not get a hold of her brother or his wife via cell phone. It was pins & needles until about 9:30 this morning when he returned one of my wife's dozen calls & texts. Seems that while they were getting ready to go to the movie last night, their 5 year old started acting up and went into a mini cranky fit (as many kids do). They didn't feel it was right to drop her off at grandma & grandpa's like that so they just cancelled going altogether. They would have been there last night. I am so glad their daughter acted up. I love my wife's brother & his family - he is a great guy, a good dad & devoted husband. Thank God.
Posted By: EddieCoyle

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 12:45 AM

I am happy to hear of your close call Mark. Must have been a tough couple of hours, followed by a great sense of relief. I know that feeling all too well. A horrible, horrible, horrible day.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 12:46 AM

Wow, uhwhat I can imagine they are thanking their lucky stars they didn't go. They'll never watch that movie without being reminded of this shooting.

I can imagine how sacred/tense it must have been for you and your wife not hearing back from them. Glad it turned out as it did for them and you.


smile
TIS
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 12:50 AM

The cops should have just shot the sonofabitch dead right there. And saved everyone all the trouble of dealing with him now.
Posted By: SC

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark
Seems that while they were getting ready to go to the movie last night, their 5 year old started acting up and went into a mini cranky fit (as many kids do). They didn't feel it was right to drop her off at grandma & grandpa's like that so they just cancelled going altogether. They would have been there last night.


Now THAT is a freaky story!! I'm glad it ended as it did (for your family).
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 01:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark
My brother-in-law and his family live in Aurora, Colorado. He is a big comic/sci-fi/movie geek and loves Batman. We spoke to him on Monday night and he & his wife were counting the days/hours until the midnight showing of the movie. They both had the day off from work today because they knew they would be up all night with friends discussing the much anticipated movie they would see. At 4:30 this morning Mrs. Mark woke up with a stomach ache and said something was wrong. She got up and went to the living room and I went back to sleep. She soon returned to tell me that the shooting was all over CNN and could not get a hold of her brother or his wife via cell phone. It was pins & needles until about 9:30 this morning when he returned one of my wife's dozen calls & texts. Seems that while they were getting ready to go to the movie last night, their 5 year old started acting up and went into a mini cranky fit (as many kids do). They didn't feel it was right to drop her off at grandma & grandpa's like that so they just cancelled going altogether. They would have been there last night. I am so glad their daughter acted up. I love my wife's brother & his family - he is a great guy, a good dad & devoted husband. Thank God.


damn, that is lucky. sadly it reminds me of the young woman who avoided the mall shooting in toronto because she had the instinct of getting fresh air a couple mins before the shooting...just sad that her life ended last night.
Posted By: EddieCoyle

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 01:23 AM

Quote:

damn, that is lucky. sadly it reminds me of the young woman who avoided the mall shooting in toronto because she had the instinct of getting fresh air a couple mins before the shooting...just sad that her life ended last night.


For those who don't know of her story, I recommend you read her blog entry as posted here, your heart will break.
Jessica Ghawi

Quote:
I say all the time that every moment we have to live our life is a blessing. So often I have found myself taking it for granted. Every hug from a family member. Every laugh we share with friends. Even the times of solitude are all blessings. Every second of every day is a gift. After Saturday evening, I know I truly understand how blessed I am for each second I am given.

Rest In Peace to the 12 Victims
Posted By: Don Zadjali

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 01:58 AM

Horrible horrible tragedy, I cannot imagine what the families of the affected are going through. frown

RIP
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 02:29 AM

I truly believe that we are often given a chance. Whether it's a guardian angel, a sixth sense, whatever, sometimes we need to pay more attention to the little voice inside of us that can often save us. For some reason, Jessica was spared in Toronto only to meet this fate.

We had a similar survival story locally. A Brinks guard survived being critically wounded during an armored car robbery back in 1981. 20 years later, he was killed during the September 11th attack on the World Trade Center.
Posted By: DickNose_Moltasanti

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 02:58 AM

SB- I heard that earlier today about the girl being in Toronto and what happened last night in Colorado. That's pretty crazy and sad as well
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 04:50 AM

Mark, I can't imagine how relieved you and your wife are. Your BIL must feel like they almost stepped into an empty elevator shaft. Glad to hear a good story out of this. Give your niece an extra hug next time you see her and tell her thanks for being a bit of a brat!
Posted By: DiNome1978

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 05:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark
My brother-in-law and his family live in Aurora, Colorado. He is a big comic/sci-fi/movie geek and loves Batman. We spoke to him on Monday night and he & his wife were counting the days/hours until the midnight showing of the movie. They both had the day off from work today because they knew they would be up all night with friends discussing the much anticipated movie they would see. At 4:30 this morning Mrs. Mark woke up with a stomach ache and said something was wrong. She got up and went to the living room and I went back to sleep. She soon returned to tell me that the shooting was all over CNN and could not get a hold of her brother or his wife via cell phone. It was pins & needles until about 9:30 this morning when he returned one of my wife's dozen calls & texts. Seems that while they were getting ready to go to the movie last night, their 5 year old started acting up and went into a mini cranky fit (as many kids do). They didn't feel it was right to drop her off at grandma & grandpa's like that so they just cancelled going altogether. They would have been there last night. I am so glad their daughter acted up. I love my wife's brother & his family - he is a great guy, a good dad & devoted husband. Thank God.
wow , talk about your ultimate close call . God bless man ..
Posted By: jace

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 05:32 AM

Originally Posted By: olivant
What are babies doing at a theater?



I found that a bit unusual too.
Posted By: Mark

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 01:15 PM

Thanks for the kind words, all. Much appreciated. We have a gal here in town that survived the NIU February 14, 2008 shooting and she says it was just like it happened yesterday. Every time things like Colorado happens, she says she relives her experience all over again. frown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_University_shooting
Posted By: klydon1

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
The cops should have just shot the sonofabitch dead right there. And saved everyone all the trouble of dealing with him now.


If so, we'd have possibly lost the lives of policemen and residents when the cops would have entered his booby trapped apartment.
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: klydon1
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
The cops should have just shot the sonofabitch dead right there. And saved everyone all the trouble of dealing with him now.


If so, we'd have possibly lost the lives of policemen and residents when the cops would have entered his booby trapped apartment.


In addition, the only information we have is provided to us through the media. The only information that the media has is provided to it through law enforcement. Given the number of people who are accused and found not-guilty and the number of people who are accused, found guilty, and then determined to be innocent through efforts such as those of the Innocence Project, we don't need the lynch mob mentality previously manifested on this Board.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 04:07 PM

I'm hearing this morning that Holmes is not talking and they still don't have any motive as to why he did what he did.

Then, his booby trapped apartment?? What's that all about I wonder?

confused

TIS
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Then, his booby trapped apartment?? What's that all about I wonder?

In case he was killed at the movie theatre, he got to take a few more people with him from "beyond the grave." That's the mentality we're dealing with here.

I respect Klyd and Oli immensely (even though we have a lot of fun here at each other's expense), but I can see where Ivy is coming from here. I don't care if it turns out that this scumbag had a rough childhood (and by all accounts, he didn't), or if he couldn't get a fucking prom date because he was socially inept. And of course I'm all for due process, but the world is better off without this mutt in it. Convict him, then kill him.

Just my two cents.
Posted By: Sonny_Black

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: BAM_233
damn, that is lucky. sadly it reminds me of the young woman who avoided the mall shooting in toronto because she had the instinct of getting fresh air a couple mins before the shooting...just sad that her life ended last night.


How did she die?
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 04:56 PM

Sonny,

As I understand it, this young girl escaped murder in Canada, only to get killed in the Colorado shooting. frown

PB,

Tho I understand the hate/sentiment regarding Holmes, I am not for vigilante type justice. What IF several other ppl thinking they were helping, opened fire and MORE innocent ppl got shot? confused I LOVE Rambo, but only in the movies.

smile
TIS
Posted By: Sonny_Black

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Sonny,

As I understand it, this young girl escaped murder in Canada, only to get killed in the Colorado shooting. frown


What are the odds? uhwhat And what was she doing in Colorado in the first place?
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 05:41 PM

What I want to know is when this country is going to pass some serious gun control. Why is it possible to still buy an AK whatever? What is this possibly used for except to murder other human beings? Don't tell me an automatic weapon of this type is necessary for home protection or hunting. It's vile that you can legally purchase a machine that's only purpose is to supply the ability to murder as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.

This lunatic was able to stockpile four weapons and 6,000 rounds of ammunition within a rather short amount of time without sounding any alarms in this country. You can't convince me that there is any reason why any of that is legal.

4 weapons. 6,000 rounds of ammunition. Full body armor. And this bastard didn't break one law until he shot at his human beings.
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Sonny,

As I understand it, this young girl escaped murder in Canada, only to get killed in the Colorado shooting. frown


What are the odds? uhwhat And what was she doing in Colorado in the first place?


idk how recent, but she moved to there when she got a job in the denver area. she dragged her boyfriend to the movie...he was wounded though...and probably scarred for life seeing his girlfriend shot.
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
What I want to know is when this country is going to pass some serious gun control. Why is it possible to still buy an AK whatever? What is this possibly used for except to murder other human beings? Don't tell me an automatic weapon of this type is necessary for home protection or hunting. It's vile that you can legally purchase a machine that's only purpose is to supply the ability to murder as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.

This lunatic was able to stockpile four weapons and 6,000 rounds of ammunition within a rather short amount of time without sounding any alarms in this country. You can't convince me that there is any reason why any of that is legal.

4 weapons. 6,000 rounds of ammunition. Full body armor. And this bastard didn't break one law until he shot at his human beings.


yea a law needs to be passed about semi automatic or automatic guns. there is no need for the general public to have it for protection or hunting. and, maybe a law for gun stores to catalog who buys a gun/ammo. if they buy a lot of said item then a red flag should/will pop up.

also to how did he get tear gas? is that illegal?
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Don't tell me an automatic weapon of this type is necessary for home protection or hunting.


He did not possess any automatic weapons.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
He did not possess any automatic weapons.
correct, he had an ar-15 semi-auto which at this point was said to be left in the car, although when these things happen it usually takes a few days for all the details to be cleared up. let me start off by saying what happened is terrible and makes no sense. the problem that i have with this sort of thing is that after these things happen the blame is always shifted somewhere else rather than where it belongs, on the individual.

its either the guns laws, violent video games, no love as a child, always something. now theres an arguement that without the guns this wouldnt have happened. thats true to an extent but this guy was very smart and the fact remains that if someone is dead set on killing people, its gonna happen. look at his apartment, wired with bombs/booby traps and you cant buy them at a store. same goes for the body armour he was wearing, thats highly restricted.

now on to the issue of gun laws/reasons for wanting to own a gun. growing up with my parents , who are about as anti-gun as you can get im able to look at things from both sides. i also spend alot of time in west virginia where gun laws are not nearly as strict as new jersey, yet for some reason they dont have nearly the same amount of gun crime per capita. i just find it weird that states with the most strict gun laws such as illinois, california, and new jersey have way higher crime levels than states like vermont, new hampshire or alaska.

now part of the reason for this could be due to the high numbers of urban areas in cali ect but its still weird.another issue i would like to address is this notion that if guns were severly restricted that gun crime would just dry up. that couldnt be further from the truth. #1 criminals dont follow laws anyways so they dont listen to said laws and it takes gun out of the hands of law abiding people. #2 just because something is agaist the law doesnt make it disappear, just look at the drug war.

i also wanted to say something to people who say that there is no reason to have these kinds of weapons. the media coined the term "assault rifle" during clintons time in office and applied it to many civilian weapons. that is a false term as a true assault rifle is a selective fire weapon with a burst or fully automatic capability and the avalability of these types of weapons is severly restricted for ordinary people.

to the people who say there is no need to have such weapons, i say target shooting is a lot of fun, especially with semi auto rifles as it cuts down on reloading. ive had many great afternoons shooting with friends and we never had anything go wrong nor have any of my friends ever shot anybody which leads to my next point.

if we want to create laws everytime somebody does something crazy, pretty soon everything will be illegal. its that old saying dont let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. i also find it a little weird that something like this happens a little more than a week before our great leader is set to attend the UN meeting on gun control. hope thats just a horrible coincidence.

thanks for letting me share my opinion guys, and if you disagree with me thats fine just thought that i would share my own opinion on this situation.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: klydon1
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
The cops should have just shot the sonofabitch dead right there. And saved everyone all the trouble of dealing with him now.


If so, we'd have possibly lost the lives of policemen and residents when the cops would have entered his booby trapped apartment.


In addition, the only information we have is provided to us through the media. The only information that the media has is provided to it through law enforcement. Given the number of people who are accused and found not-guilty and the number of people who are accused, found guilty, and then determined to be innocent through efforts such as those of the Innocence Project, we don't need the lynch mob mentality previously manifested on this Board.


Oh please. Like we all don't know this guy is guilty. rolleyes

I'm all for "due process." But my guess is, even after that, you'd still be against the guy being executed. Even though you know, just like I do, that he's guilty.

And that's assuming some slick, soulless, defense attorney doesn't get him off on an insanity plea. And even if that doesn't happen, he'll probably be given life in prison, which means the state gets to pay for his room and board for the rest of his life.

That isn't justice.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Don't tell me an automatic weapon of this type is necessary for home protection or hunting.


He did not possess any automatic weapons.


I don't care what the correct gun name is, but anything that is capable of firing dozens of rounds within 60 seconds should be classified as "automatic", IMO. The only reason for a weapon to do that is to kill as many humans as possible. And there's no reason for any civilian to own one.

I'm certainly not against responsible gun ownership. I believe that if you want a gun for hunting or home protection, there is no reason for a law-abiding citizen not to be able to purchase one under strict supervision, with proper guidelines and waiting periods.

However, when one person buys four weapons and 6,000 rounds of ammunition in a short amount of time, I'm pretty sure the only reason for that would be to slaughter people. It baffles me that he could do all the preparation for the other night without raising red flags.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/21/12 08:41 PM

I agree SB but any kind of rules/changes/requirements and people will scream about "2nd amendment rights". NOBODY'S suggesting taking guns away, BUT it plays well politically and people buy into it.

I am amazed that people don't think a little more caution/background checks, and whatever other precautions gun/ammo sellers can make is a bad thing. confused Recently I read one state allowed guns in bars (don't care if it's a bar that serves food)? Does it take a freekin' genius to conclude that's a bad idea?




TIS
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Don't tell me an automatic weapon of this type is necessary for home protection or hunting.


He did not possess any automatic weapons.


I don't care what the correct gun name is, but anything that is capable of firing dozens of rounds within 60 seconds should be classified as "automatic", IMO. The only reason for a weapon to do that is to kill as many humans as possible. And there's no reason for any civilian to own one.

I'm certainly not against responsible gun ownership. I believe that if you want a gun for hunting or home protection, there is no reason for a law-abiding citizen not to be able to purchase one under strict supervision, with proper guidelines and waiting periods.

However, when one person buys four weapons and 6,000 rounds of ammunition in a short amount of time, I'm pretty sure the only reason for that would be to slaughter people. It baffles me that he could do all the preparation for the other night without raising red flags.


Is a semi automatic different from an automatic? confused According to this he had a semi automatic weapon that jammed. AND what would that be used for?

BTW, it looks like had been planning this for months.

TIS

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22..._n_1692690.html

Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 03:18 PM

TIS, a semiautomatic ejects the spent shell and loads a new one. But, the shooter has to pull the trigger again. This is true of all guns except automatics. A shooter has to pull the trigger to fire a round every time.

This is why Babe is wrong. One can fire as many rounds as one's ability to keep pulling the trigger. Without that, even Wyatt Earp would have had one heckof a time trying to clean up Tombstone.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Is a semi automatic different from an automatic?
quick answer, a semi auto fires a round every time that the trigger is pulled. a fully automatic weapon will fire as long as the trigger is held down or until the weapon is empty.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 03:43 PM

So, to put it in terms that a non gun person would understand, the guns you see in old gangster movies (ie Al Capone, GF) when they open fire are automatic weapons right?

smile

TIS
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 03:47 PM

the tommy gun, the one you would see in all the old prohibition movies, is a fully automatic weapon. here is a short video of one in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4QWrha3HLw&feature=fvwrel
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 06:12 PM

Olivant, by focusing on minutiae and refocusing the debate on what is and isn't automatic, you've missed the point of my post. I don't understand why it is possible for someone to amass this sort of arsenal, including the ammunition, without raising a red flag.

This weekend, some local moron allegedly saw deer in his yard, so he climbed up on his roof and fired five rounds from his 12 gauge shotgun.

A. It is illegal to fire a gun within town limits.
B. It's not hunting season, so even if he wasn't within town limits, it's still illegal.
C. He needed no license to legally own this weapon.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 08:29 PM

Plenty of stupid people do stupid, irresponsible things with lethal instruments. Here in AZ, a "Second Amendment" state, the biggest fear is of people who cause absolute carnage by driving drunk or on drugs, or texting while driving. And, an alarming number of people caught after causing lethal accidents or committing crimes were driving on licenses suspended for previous DUI's. The law was no more effective stopping them than it is stopping illegal gun traffic. But no one is advocating outlawing cars.

As for semi-automatic rifles like AR15 and its clones:
They are civilian versions of the military M16, except they cannot be fired on full automatic or in bursts. They are shorter and lighter than full-sized rifles, and fire a specialized small-caliber, intermediate-range, high-velocity round: .223, which is too small to stop dead any game animal other than a small deer, but which is ideal for killing or stopping enemy soldiers in fairly close combat. The only conceivable need that a civilian might have for an AR15 would be to defend his family and property against an armed and dangerous gang. I don't own one. But if I lived in one of my state's many desolate, isolated regions, especially near the Mexican border, that are so often threatened by gangs, I'd own one as a precaution.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 08:38 PM

^^^some very good points. one thing to add as ive said before is that the AR series of rifles are alot of fun to shoot, a real lot. at my buddies farm we would set up cans and other small targets at different ranges and have at it. i strongly feel that target shooting is definatly a valid reason to own one. for alot of people who havent got a chance to enjoy the many shooting sports i say give it a try, you really might enjoy it. if not, thats more than fine but please dont try to limit something i love because of some lunatic.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 09:37 PM

TB, no one should outlaw anything. And that's not what I'm advocating. Drunk driving is despicable, and offenders are often repeat offenders, as you pointed out. It should demand a serious sentence, and it doesn't.

However, there's no equating the two. It's apples and oranges. A drunk doesn't start planning their drunken rampage three months in advance and start amassing bottles of alcohol to drink before they go out and wreak as much death and destruction as they can before they are caught. Spree killers do.

I'm sorry to spoil your fun, but these types of weapons should be outlawed. Shoot with something else. If hunters or collectors want to own guns, so be it. It's not my thing, but I'm betting that some of my hobbies wouldn't be fun for you. But it needs better regulation and oversight. I can't imagine any reason for someone to purchase 6,000 rounds of ammunition, except if they're planning to wipe out a whole bunch of people.
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 10:03 PM

I'm not sure what you mean when you state "these types of weapons". What types? As TB has explained, an AR15 is not an automatic weapon - it's semi-automatic. That simply means that the weapon ejects the spent cartridge and loads another one. Basically, it operates the same as a six-gun like cowboys used. A six-gun doesn't eject the spent shell because the barrel of the six-gun rotates after firing and presents the shooter with a bullet ready to fire. All the shooter does then is to pull the trigger - the same as the shooter of the AR15 does.

You can find any number of gun enthusiasts that own many guns of many types and have a bounty of ammunition for them. What red flag would be raised? What could any one do about that?
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 10:10 PM

another thing i would like to add is that my uncle owns a mini-14. this rifle shoots the same round as an AR-15, but since its not black and futuristic lokking nobody seems to mind these rifles but in the wrong hands its just as potentially deadly as any other weapon. look at california, a state with some of if not the toughest firearms laws in the country. in california you are not allowed to have an AR-15 with a pistol grip, magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds and you need whats called a bullet button to release the magazine to reload it. yet, california has some of the most violent gun filled cities in the country. explain that?
Posted By: Dapper_Don

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Five_Felonies
another thing i would like to add is that my uncle owns a mini-14. this rifle shoots the same round as an AR-15, but since its not black and futuristic lokking nobody seems to mind these rifles but in the wrong hands its just as potentially deadly as any other weapon. look at california, a state with some of if not the toughest firearms laws in the country. in california you are not allowed to have an AR-15 with a pistol grip, magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds and you need whats called a bullet button to release the magazine to reload it. yet, california has some of the most violent gun filled cities in the country. explain that?


Maybe its the street gangs trafficking/smuggling guns in from neighboring states with weak gun laws which is quite common. I've read that's one of the reasons.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 10:41 PM

^^^ im sure thats true for a lot of the cases, but by california law any guns brought into the state must be registered in a set amount of time(not sure how long) as well as meet california law regarding firearms regulation. criminals dont follow these laws. there are many more firearms laws than most people realize. i just dont feel like this nanny state approach is the answer as the government cant even get thier own shit together, much less protect everybody. the sad fact is that in a free society terrible things happen from time to time and there are rarely cut and dry solutions to these types of problems.

some people just cop out and say if there were no guns there wouldnt be any problems. people in the uk found this out the hard way as slowly it was harder and harder for private citizens to own guns. the criminals caught on and now they are living in a country where self defense is pretty much agaist the law. if you are getting robbed try to call the police but dont you dare fight back or you will be the one going to jail.
these kinds of stories are all to common in the uk...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-143147/Father-jailed-killing-burglar.html

now we have people like piers morgan who arent even born in america basically advocating a total gun ban for civilians. funny thing is he has armed security with him most of the time he's in public so what does he care? he's safe.

the problem with new/more gun restrictions is that it never stops. say all semiautomatic weapons were banned today but then tomorrow somebody kills a bunch of people with a pump shotgun? whats the solution ban them as well? same for samari swords because some ninja went nuts? it goes on and on and before you know it anything considered dangerous is highly regulated/controlled but only for civilians as the government knows whats best and only has our best intrests at heart. gimmie a break!
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 11:42 PM

Olivant, it is NOT the same as a six shooter. A six shooter would fire six shots, and then the shooter would have to stop to reload before he could fire six more shots, and then he would have to stop to reload again. With a weapon that has a 100 round magazine, as this shooter did, one is capable of firing scores of shots in seconds. Unless my math is wrong, the one with a six shooter would have to stop and reload approximately 17 times to fire 100 rounds, while this gun would just keep firing.

And what red flags? And what should be done? Something sure needs to be. What if Charles Whitman had had a semi-automatic weapon such as this up in that tower? And thousands of rounds of ammunition?

Five, as for Piers Morgan being safe because he has armed guards, tell that to Ronald Reagan and James Brady. They were shot while surrounded by some of the best-trained armed guards in the history of the world.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/22/12 11:49 PM

Not from the us but rip to all that died that day. I believe the

columbine killers have inspired these maniacs. Nothing to do with

how close to columbine it was it just seems alot of these mass

killings were inspired by columbine. I don't want to get into gun

control arguments with any anyone also i can't verify their

effectiveness. But i believe the us need to impose stricter

laws so the average joe( not saying he was one ) can't go into

a supermarket to buy a gun and ammunition then walk into a

public area to kill people. Agais is jmo.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 01:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Five_Felonies
another thing i would like to add is that my uncle owns a mini-14. this rifle shoots the same round as an AR-15, but since its not black and futuristic lokking nobody seems to mind these rifles but in the wrong hands its just as potentially deadly as any other weapon. look at california, a state with some of if not the toughest firearms laws in the country. in california you are not allowed to have an AR-15 with a pistol grip, magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds and you need whats called a bullet button to release the magazine to reload it. yet, california has some of the most violent gun filled cities in the country. explain that?

California has the highest number of gun deaths in the country. Some very tough gun law states, like NJ and NY, also have high rates:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

There were 8k gun murders in the US last year and 34,000 fatalities in car accidents. So far, laws have been unable either to stop gun violence or to assure safer driving. We have to try harder--and smarter.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 03:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: Five_Felonies
another thing i would like to add is that my uncle owns a mini-14. this rifle shoots the same round as an AR-15, but since its not black and futuristic lokking nobody seems to mind these rifles but in the wrong hands its just as potentially deadly as any other weapon. look at california, a state with some of if not the toughest firearms laws in the country. in california you are not allowed to have an AR-15 with a pistol grip, magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds and you need whats called a bullet button to release the magazine to reload it. yet, california has some of the most violent gun filled cities in the country. explain that?

California has the highest number of gun deaths in the country. Some very tough gun law states, like NJ and NY, also have high rates:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

There were 8k gun murders in the US last year and 34,000 fatalities in car accidents. So far, laws have been unable either to stop gun violence or to assure safer driving. We have to try harder--and smarter.


I'm not arguing with anyone but why are guns so easy to obtain

in the us? How do massacres like the Arizona shootings

materialize? Is it by any chance how easy it is for a mentally

unstable person to obtain a gun and ammunition ?
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 05:01 PM

It makes me sick to my stomach that we as tax payers have to pay for this piece of shit now. The minute he pulled that trigger he lost his rights to due process IMO.

Every time these mass shootings happens all you hear is gun laws. It don't matter what laws they make all it does it take the guns out of law abiding citizens hands and the criminals have free rein.

These mass shootings are happening at "gun free zones". These f'n lunatic's know this that law abiding CCW carriers will not bring there guns in. And this is where the problem lies.

We own AK's AR's pistols, shotguns,rifles. We use our weapons for hunting, home protection, target shooting and we stockpile ammo. Are we going to go out and shoot people hell no.

We will not go to places where they don't allow concealed weapons. Why? just for that reason. If I go to a store/restaurant I want to be able to defend myself just in case. Example: A local quick stop kept getting robbed because it was a gun safe zone. Once management took that sign down that quick stop hasn't been robbed since.

So don't lay no guilt trip on me or tell me I'm wrong because we own semi auto's or any other gun.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Mignon
It makes me sick to my stomach that we as tax payers have to pay for this piece of shit now. The minute he pulled that trigger he lost his rights to due process IMO.

Every time these mass shootings happens all you hear is gun laws. It don't matter what laws they make all it does it take the guns out of law abiding citizens hands and the criminals have free rein.

These mass shootings are happening at "gun free zones". These f'n lunatic's know this that law abiding CCW carriers will not bring there guns in. And this is where the problem lies.

We own AK's AR's pistols, shotguns,rifles. We use our weapons for hunting, home protection, target shooting and we stockpile ammo. Are we going to go out and shoot people hell no.

We will not go to places where they don't allow concealed weapons. Why? just for that reason. If I go to a store/restaurant I want to be able to defend myself just in case. Example: A local quick stop kept getting robbed because it was a gun safe zone. Once management took that sign down that quick stop hasn't been robbed since.

So don't lay no guilt trip on me or tell me I'm wrong because we own semi auto's or any other gun.



couldn't agree more with everything that you just said! the small amount of the news coverage that i could stomach put more blame on gun laws than the maniac that did this, in fact i cant even recall any coverage where the blame was placed on the individual. another thing that drives me insane is this attitude portrayed by the majority of the media that if you are pro gun then you are somehow partly responsible for what happened. i also have a problem with people who have zero firearms expierience/knowledge calling for more gun regulations but not specifying what they mean by that, just more.
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Recently I read one state allowed guns in bars (don't care if it's a bar that serves food)? Does it take a freekin' genius to conclude that's a bad idea?




TIS


TIS, We can do this in Ohio. Restaurants that serve alcohol we can conceal carry but the law says we are not permitted to drink. When this law took effect all I heard is there will be blood in the streets because of this law. Nope hasn't happened. CCW carriers will not do anything to get the gun/permit taken away.

And Five Felonies I agree with you as well with what you have posted.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 05:31 PM

Hi, Miggy!

We miss you around here, you old pistol packin' mama grin.
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Hi, Miggy!

We miss you around here, you old pistol packin' mama grin.


Hi PB!!

Thank you. Pretty soon I'll be a pistol packin Grandmama. (notice I didn't say old) LOL How ya doin PB?
Posted By: DickNose_Moltasanti

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 06:09 PM

FF = Your right about the media coverage. They need to focus on this guy, I don't know laws protect when it comes to Mental Health Issues but sadly gunlaw/ no gunlaw, if you have a nutjob like this whose going to school for a PHD you can't predict his next move? Was this guy a loner, was he picked on,
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Mignon
How ya doin PB?

I'm good, Mama. But still a little retarded grin.
Posted By: Danito

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 07:26 PM

Original geschrieben von: Mignon
It don't matter what laws they make all it does it take the guns out of law abiding citizens hands and the criminals have free rein.


The only problem: He wasn't a criminal until he pulled the trigger.
Are there other places in the civilised world where a person who gets a depression can that easily get legally a gun?
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Mignon
These mass shootings are happening at "gun free zones". These f'n lunatic's know this that law abiding CCW carriers will not bring there guns in. And this is where the problem lies.


Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 08:20 PM

Your country's laws regarding gun ownership are rather restrictive and onerous. However, once one obtains a card from your government, no subsequent evaluation takes place. In addition, illegally obtained firearms also kill. Recall Erfert and Winnenden.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/23/12 08:24 PM

something else to consider, with all the talk of what these nutjobs do with the evil guns that they have try looking at it from the other side. anybody else find it strange that you rarely ever hear about the number of times that guns are used to prevent crime in the media? thankfully in this day and age we dont have to rely solely on the "nightly news" as our only source of information so i advise everyone to do your own research. heres just one of the many examples...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/7589-guns-used-in-self-defense
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 12:38 AM

If you think that madmen only act when there are no guns around, please tell that to Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Jack Ruby and John Hinkley. What about the shooting at Fort Hood? Do you think that's a gun-free zone? Puh-leeze.

And I don't know where you're getting your facts, TB, but according to statehealthfacts.org, when ranked from low to high in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, New York, NJ and California are actually among the lowest. The highest rates belongs to Alaska and the District of Columbia, and the lowest to Hawaii.

The United States has one of the highest firearms death rates in the world. We are exceeded by South Africa and Colombia, though, so PHEW, because those bastions of peace and freedom are good company to keep. You could add up the number of gun deaths in most of Europe and Asia, toss in Canada, and you still wouldn't come close to the number of gun deaths in the US. Is it because they have more restrictive gun laws, or are we more inherently violent??
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
And I don't know where you're getting your facts, TB, but according to statehealthfacts.org, when ranked from low to high in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, New York, NJ and California are actually among the lowest. The highest rates belongs to Alaska and the District of Columbia, and the lowest to Hawaii.

If you didn't believe the facts I posted in a link from The Guardian, here's another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

It's possible that some sources count suicides (most gun deaths are suicides) along with homicides. But two statistics are constant: Washington DC (where until very recently it was impossible for a law-abiding citizen to buy a gun) has the highest rate by far; Vermont, where law abiding citizens have always had the right to carry, has the lowest rate.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 01:18 AM

And accidental shootings? I think that's just as horrible as a homicide. What statistics do you pick and choose from?
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 01:32 AM

Ya'll may be comparing apples and oranges. There's a difference between gun deaths which also include suicides, accidents, and self-defense, and those that are murders. Also, the number of murders can be reduced by changes in statutory definitions of murder.

Texas may be the last bastion of the old west. It's gun laws are relatively lax. It's statutes include conceal and carry and the castle doctrine. Still, in 2010 according tot he FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, Texas gun murder rate ranked 3rd behind California and New York which have rather strict gun control laws.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 01:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
What statistics do you pick and choose from?

I'm not picking and choosing Washington DC and Vermont. They are constant as highest and lowest homicide rates on every compendium.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 02:15 AM

TB, please, I certainly didn't mean it that way. I was talking about isolating homicides versus counting all gun deaths.
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 05:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
If you think that madmen only act when there are no guns around, please tell that to Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Jack Ruby and John Hinkley. What about the shooting at Fort Hood? Do you think that's a gun-free zone? Puh-leeze.

And I don't know where you're getting your facts, TB, but according to statehealthfacts.org, when ranked from low to high in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, New York, NJ and California are actually among the lowest. The highest rates belongs to Alaska and the District of Columbia, and the lowest to Hawaii.

The United States has one of the highest firearms death rates in the world. We are exceeded by South Africa and Colombia, though, so PHEW, because those bastions of peace and freedom are good company to keep. You could add up the number of gun deaths in most of Europe and Asia, toss in Canada, and you still wouldn't come close to the number of gun deaths in the US. Is it because they have more restrictive gun laws, or are we more inherently violent??


OMG You honestly think that people are allowed to bring personal weapons on a military base PUL-LEASE!! Only security and police have the weapons.

There will be shootings in gun safe zones (less)and gun free zones(criminal safety zones) because there is evil in the world. Just don't take my right away from me to defend myself and my family.
Posted By: Danito

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:42 AM

Original geschrieben von: Mignon
Original geschrieben von: Mignon
These mass shootings are happening at "gun free zones". These f'n lunatic's know this that law abiding CCW carriers will not bring there guns in. And this is where the problem lies.




What this cartoon says is that it would be safer if the students at Columbine High School were carrying guns all the time. You can't seriously agree on that.
Posted By: Danito

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 09:01 AM

Original geschrieben von: olivant
Your country's laws regarding gun ownership are rather restrictive and onerous. However, once one obtains a card from your government, no subsequent evaluation takes place. In addition, illegally obtained firearms also kill. Recall Erfert and Winnenden.


I don't think I have said anything about the legal situation in Germany. But if you like to compare, then compare homicide rates (with and without guns) in Western Europe with those in the US. And then we can ask ourselves: Who should learn from who?
The boy in Winnenden had a carelass father who hadn't locked his guns properly.
My question is: Don't we need a threshold? Depression (which is frequently involved in such shootings) is more and more quite a common phenomenon. If guns are an easy solution - that's a problem.
Posted By: Don Zadjali

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 09:07 AM

Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 05:13 PM

My wife and I were watching coverage of the Aurora tragedy yesterday evening. This commercial ran during the coverage.
Even by the low political standards of my adopted state, this one takes the cake for tastelessness:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/06/07/...iscourse-video/
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 05:21 PM

Yeah, but you know what, TB? Both sides will eventually try to use this for political gain mad.

I was watching the George Stephanopoulos talking heads show on Sunday morning (I watch because I've always liked George Will), and they're already starting in on both sides. The lefties want no guns, the righties want guns without a waiting period, blah blah blah. I frankly can't take it anymore. Partisan politics are making me apolitical.

12 people are dead because of this scumbag---and crazy or not, that's just what he is---but there are still people looking to make this about politics instead of putting the blame where it belongs. I may cast a write-in vote for Barney Fife.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 05:33 PM

PB, I think you're wrong as far as "Lefties" wanting NO guns. That's never been the issue but it is spun that way and it works. Regulations, guidelines, whatever you want to call a little more attention to how guns are distributed/sold is the issue.

That being said, Gun clingers, relax NOTHING will happen. It's just a dead issue that neither party will touch. Makes me angry, but that's the truth.

TB, I have seen that ad before and not surprised really. LOL Actually the last few years, I don't think much in the political arena is a surprise anymore. lol

Also, when I was out on my run today I heard on the radio that some guy in Norwalk,CA got arrested at a "Dark Knight" film. When the film didn't start on time, he said something to the effect of, "I might pull a Colorado" on you and/or indicated he'd get a gun. Very smart. rolleyes

TIS
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Also, when I was out on my run today I heard on the radio that some guy in Norwalk,CA got arrested at a "Dark Knight" film. When the film didn't start on time, he said something to the effect of, "I might pull a Colorado" on you and/or indicated he'd get a gun. Very smart. rolleyes

Yelling fire in a movie theatre has been illegal for ages, but what that asshole in Connecticut did can probably be called a "terrorist threat" in today's climate. But Connecticut is the same state that gave us Vince and Linda McMahon, so I'm not really surprised whistle.
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 07:55 PM

I don't see it, but maybe you will. Take a look at the picture at this link and see if you see the Angel:

http://now.msn.com/angel-seen-in-picture-of-sunday-vigil-for-victims-of-aurora-century-16-massacre
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:19 PM

It looks kind of like a tornado or some kind of weather pattern. But if it gives hope to people of faith, that's fine with me. If an Atheist wants to roll his eyes at the thought, this really wouldn't be the time.

Posted By: SC

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:23 PM

rolleyes
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:40 PM

Actually I usually can't see something like that without staring at it for a while but I did see the angel right away. Maybe cause I'm just so Angelic it came naturally. tongue lol





TIS
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Actually I usually can't see something like that without staring at it for a while but I did see the angel right away. Maybe cause I'm just so Angelic it came naturally. tongue lol





TIS


In the words of Mona Lisa Vito: "Oh, you are, you are!"

What I (the Atheist) see resembles Old Man Winter more than an Angel.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:46 PM

Oh yea, I can see where you'd see Old Man Winter too. lol




TIS
Posted By: klydon1

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: olivant
I don't see it, but maybe you will. Take a look at the picture at this link and see if you see the Angel:

http://now.msn.com/angel-seen-in-picture-of-sunday-vigil-for-victims-of-aurora-century-16-massacre


People that see an angel are crazy. It's obviously St. Theresa of Calcutta.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/24/12 08:55 PM

looks like a cloud to me
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 12:19 AM

Christian Bale visits Colorado shooting victims
http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk...-220129641.html


Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 12:22 AM

Gun sales spike in Colorado after shooting, just like they did in Arizona
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-...9--finance.html
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 12:30 AM

Sure. I bet they're selling AR15's and Bushmasters like crazy as people fear a reinstatement of assault rifle ban.

After Obama was elected, there was an incredible run on guns and ammo. Widespread shortages and prices that tripled. Gun store and ammo on-line catalog proprietors said Obama was the best thing that happened to them. But he has yet to touch the gun control issue.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Mignon
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
If you think that madmen only act when there are no guns around, please tell that to Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Jack Ruby and John Hinkley. What about the shooting at Fort Hood? Do you think that's a gun-free zone? Puh-leeze.

And I don't know where you're getting your facts, TB, but according to statehealthfacts.org, when ranked from low to high in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, New York, NJ and California are actually among the lowest. The highest rates belongs to Alaska and the District of Columbia, and the lowest to Hawaii.

The United States has one of the highest firearms death rates in the world. We are exceeded by South Africa and Colombia, though, so PHEW, because those bastions of peace and freedom are good company to keep. You could add up the number of gun deaths in most of Europe and Asia, toss in Canada, and you still wouldn't come close to the number of gun deaths in the US. Is it because they have more restrictive gun laws, or are we more inherently violent??


OMG You honestly think that people are allowed to bring personal weapons on a military base PUL-LEASE!! Only security and police have the weapons.

There will be shootings in gun safe zones (less)and gun free zones(criminal safety zones) because there is evil in the world. Just don't take my right away from me to defend myself and my family.
\

Why don't you bother to READ what other people write. You said that these shootings take place in gun-free zones, and I stated that the last place on earth that is a gun-free zone is a military base.

Also, nobody said that anyone wants to take your precious guns away. I said that if people want to own guns for hunting or home protection, I don't have a problem with it. It's NOT MY THING, but I don't think I should stop you from doing so.

However, I posted a story about a man in my area who fired on deer from the roof of his home with a 12 gauge shotgun, a gun which doesn't require a license to own. That's not right. Guns should be licensed. Guns should be controlled. And I think that someone shouldn't be able to buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition in 90 days, it needs to be better regulated. I also disagree with being able to buy these magazines that allow someone to fire so destructively.

So, Mig, READ what's written before you respond, especially since you're just going to repeat yourself and not actually respond to what people write.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 01:14 AM

i dont believe in the whole left vs right game that this country likes to play. i look at every issue seperate, something many don't do and simply side with thier "team". however, in this senario i tend to favor the right. reason being,especially with gun politics is the left looks at it as a football game, where the goal is to win but you need the yards first.(the right is guilty of this on many issues as well) what i mean by this is that they know that at this time at least that a gun ban isn't gonna fly. so what they do is go for small gains, ie more gun regs. its the classic government(both right and left) ploy. for example,we have been conditioned to think that income taxes are just a part of life, everyone pays end of story. it didnt used to be that way, but has been so for so long that nobody even questions it anymore.

what it comes down to is that its in human nature for the more powerful people to want control over the less powerful. government is no different. like i've stated before once it starts, where does it end with the regulation? plenty of laws are already on the books, some states stricter than others. i would rather live in a free society and take my chances with the lone wolf.

SB, you mentioned the jerk that let loose with his shotgun. thats terrible and at the very least i think that his ability to possess firearms should be reevaluated but i'm curious as to what you think the solution should be in terms of more regulation? i'm not sure what kind of backround check the government could preform that would be able to weed out every wacko who wants to purchase a firearm.

last point i wanna make is that while its obvious that lots of us on here have differing opinions, its nice to see that we can at least discuss it without being nasty to each other. more than i can say for some of the other message boards i'm a member of!
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 01:27 AM

I don't know what the solution is, FF. I wish I did. However, the fact that NY is considered quite strict regarding gun control, and yet you can buy a shotgun without a license really disturbs me. The fact that the Virginia Tech killer was able to buy his weapons without his mental health problems, all well-documented, being an issue really disturbs me. The fact that you can buy guns at a gun show and walk out with them that same day disturbs me, which is how the Columbine shooters got their weapons.

Like I've said repeatedly here, I don't have a problem with law-abiding citizens obtaining weapons for personal use. However, I do believe that every gun purchase should require a waiting period of no more than a few days to enable the government to perform a background check, and it should require a license. Maybe there should also be mandatory safety training to try and cut down on accidental shootings. That's certainly not unreasonable.

I would like to ask how one buys ammunition? Is there a limit? Do you need to show ID? Does it vary from state to state? I would like to know more before I could possibly try to offer an alternative to the way it's done now.

Also, I asked a question several posts up, and I was sincere about wanting to know people's opinion. Since the USA is 4th in the world in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, is it because we lack gun control or are Americans more violent by nature???
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I don't know what the solution is, FF. I wish I did. However, the fact that NY is considered quite strict regarding gun control, and yet you can buy a shotgun without a license really disturbs me. The fact that the Virginia Tech killer was able to buy his weapons without his mental health problems, all well-documented, being an issue really disturbs me. The fact that you can buy guns at a gun show and walk out with them that same day disturbs me, which is how the Columbine shooters got their weapons.

Like I've said repeatedly here, I don't have a problem with law-abiding citizens obtaining weapons for personal use. However, I do believe that every gun purchase should require a waiting period of no more than a few days to enable the government to perform a background check, and it should require a license. Maybe there should also be mandatory safety training to try and cut down on accidental shootings. That's certainly not unreasonable.

I would like to ask how one buys ammunition? Is there a limit? Do you need to show ID? Does it vary from state to state? I would like to know more before I could possibly try to offer an alternative to the way it's done now.

Also, I asked a question several posts up, and I was sincere about wanting to know people's opinion. Since the USA is 4th in the world in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, is it because we lack gun control or are Americans more violent by nature???



Don't know the answers to your questions at the end. But i agree with everything else you said.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 01:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I don't know what the solution is, FF. I wish I did. However, the fact that NY is considered quite strict regarding gun control, and yet you can buy a shotgun without a license really disturbs me. The fact that the Virginia Tech killer was able to buy his weapons without his mental health problems, all well-documented, being an issue really disturbs me. The fact that you can buy guns at a gun show and walk out with them that same day disturbs me, which is how the Columbine shooters got their weapons.

Like I've said repeatedly here, I don't have a problem with law-abiding citizens obtaining weapons for personal use. However, I do believe that every gun purchase should require a waiting period of no more than a few days to enable the government to perform a background check, and it should require a license. Maybe there should also be mandatory safety training to try and cut down on accidental shootings. That's certainly not unreasonable.

I would like to ask how one buys ammunition? Is there a limit? Do you need to show ID? Does it vary from state to state? I would like to know more before I could possibly try to offer an alternative to the way it's done now.

Also, I asked a question several posts up, and I was sincere about wanting to know people's opinion. Since the USA is 4th in the world in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, is it because we lack gun control or are Americans more violent by nature???

fair questions. the point i wanna make is that if a smart women and world class cook like you isn't sure on what regulations to impose, then how should our shitbag government decide? regarding shotguns, they are not considered "assault weapons", even by those jokesters working at cnn and msnbc(fox news has an equal amount of trash working for them). i would also like to applaud you for trying to learn more about the topic as thats more than most people do. education is the key to all issues, not just guns.

regarding training, thats usually the case for the majority of states that allow concealed carry, which im not apposed to at all. the problem is that if it was required to purchase a shotgun it would create a buerocratic bottleneck that would take months if not longer to clear up. a shotgun is way easier to use than a computer, it just takes common sense. i wouldn't be apposed to a training class, but imo a gun dealer should be licensed to teach one and it should be able to happen that same day as it doesn't take long to learn how to use a gun. the sad truth is that if such regulations were to become mandatory, guess who is gonna be in charge of the class? the federal government, and along with that comes all the shit that we have come to expect from them on every issue available.

along those same line, who is gonna decide how much said class is gonna cost? who is gonna be eligable to take the class? before you know it they will have created so much red tape that they can claim its still legal for a civilian to own a firearm but it will not be possible for anyone without tons of money and free time on thier hands which most people don't have in these tough times.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:11 AM

I agree that red tape can be a nightmare, but no more so than cleaning up the blood of innocent victims. If such regulations could possibly help save lives, aren't they worth it? I'm not talking about a long class, but a basic safety classes, stressing the importance of locking up guns, especially if there are children in the house (seems like a given, yet it's not), basics about the safe use and storage of these guns.
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I agree that red tape can be a nightmare, but no more so than cleaning up the blood of innocent victims. If such regulations could possibly help save lives, aren't they worth it? I'm not talking about a long class, but a basic safety classes, stressing the importance of locking up guns, especially if there are children in the house (seems like a given, yet it's not), basics about the safe use and storage of these guns.



then we have the other problem, illegal guns and the black market. either way guns will always be on the street and those like james holmes will always find a way to kill. if anything expect the same thing that happened to gambling,alcohol, and drugs.
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:29 AM

None of the posts in this thread acknowledge the interpretation and application of the US Constitution's 2nd amendment nor similar provisions of state constitutions. The Court's Heller decision a few years ago has failed to spark much of a movement to limit or eliminate federal government constraints on firearms (nor those of states). However, there's no longer much of an effort to impose constraints either. Trying now to impose additional constraints would motivate the NRA to resurrect Heller and the NRA would probably get its way.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:29 AM

Quote:
Women Who Survived Theater Shooting Grieve for Hero Boyfriends
By CHRISTINA NG and DAN HARRIS
Good Morning America
July 24, 2012

Of the 12 people killed in the Aurora theater shooting, four of them were men who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect their girlfriends. Now, each of these women are struggling to come to terms with both their grief and their gratitude.

Alexander Teves, 24, attended the midnight screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" with his girlfriend Amanda Lindgren , 24,and another friend.

When suspected gunman James Holmes opened fire in the sold out theater, Teves immediately lunged to block Lindgren from the gunfire.

"I was really, really confused at first about what was going on, so confused," Lindgren told ABC News. "But, it's like Alex didn't even hesitate. Because I sat there for a minute, not knowing what was going on, and he held me down and he covered my head and he said, 'Shh stay down. It's ok. Shh just stay down.' So I did."

Teves blocked the bullets from Lindgren but he was shot and killed. She was not hit.

"He was my angel that night, but he was my angel every day I knew him," Lindgren said. "I'm broken."

Lindgren reflected on the profoundly close relationship she had with Teves, saying that the couple would not go an hour in the day "without missing each other terribly."

"My other half was just ripped apart from me and so for me it's still unreal," she said. "I can't picture my life without him.

How do you? When someone loves you that much and you love somebody that much…how do you believe that this is real? And of all places. We were in that theater, that specific room. We were just supposed to watch a movie."

When asked if she thought Teves knew he was putting himself in danger for her, Lindgren said, "I know he did. He'd do anything for me. He always told me that, too. I just wish I could have protected him the same way he protected me."

Teves' father Tom Teves is also devastated, but said that his son is still with him.

"I'm hollow. But Alex has come and brought me…from heaven, he's been bringing me hope," Teves told ABC News. "He's still my inspiration. And I know now more than ever that there is a God.

Because of Alex. Because Alex is still coming through. Because that's the kind of man he is."

Elsewhere in theater nine, John Larimer and his girlfriend Julia Vojtsek went through a similar situation.

U.S. Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class John Larimer, 26, and his girlfriend Julia Vojtsek, 23, were sitting int the middle of the theater when the shooting began.

"John immediately and instinctively covered me and brought me to the ground in order to protect me from any danger," Vojtsek wrote in a statement. "Moments later, John knowingly shielded me from a spray of gunshots. It was then I believe John was hit with a bullet that would have very possibly struck me. I feel very strongly that I was saved by John and his ultimate kindness."

The couple had known each other since they were 21 and 18 years old when they met working at a Chili's in Illinois, where they are both from. Larimer was home for the summer from school and Vojtsek was getting ready to go to college. They became close and stayed in touch with Facebook and text messages.

This summer, Vojtsek's father Fred Vojtsek came to Colorado to work for an extended period of time. When Julia Vojtsek traveled to Colorado to spend part of her summer with her father, she told him that Larimer was stationed in Aurora and he encouraged her to see him.

Theater Survivors Grieve For Hero Boyfriends

"I wanted her to see him because he would have been a kid that a father wants to see his daughter with, a kid of values and things like that," Fred Vojtsek told ABCNews.com. He said his daughter and Larimer became boyfriend and girlfriend about three weeks ago. "So many kids these days don't really want to hear what parents have to say or engage or listen, and he did. That's what stood out with me."

"We were planning on going to church Saturday night," Vojstek said. "He was a good kid."

Fred Vojstek has been staying in a place just minutes away from from the Century 16 movie theater where the shooting took place. His panicked daughter called him as she was running out of the theater and he arrived within minutes of the shooting.

"She was hysterical and then she got more into a shock stage," Vojtsek said.

Since then, Julia Vojtsek has told her father that she was at the movie with Larimer, two other navy men and a woman. Fred Vojtsek said that after Larimer was shot, the other two navy members were "unbelievable" in making sure his daughter got out safely, even though they had just met her earlier that day.

"I'm grateful my daughter is alive and hopeful he can get through this," Vojtsek said, adding that she is "very, very traumatized."
He said that Larimer's family has been very good to his daughter and that he is "eternally grateful" for Larimer and his Navy friends for saving his daughter.

Vojtsek wrote that just weeks earlier, Larimer had spoken to her about his further advancement in the military.

"John convincingly stated to me that he wanted to be deployed for two simple reasons: He wanted to protect his country, and he wanted to save others from danger and harm," she wrote. "John adamantly wanted to make a difference in the world, and he thought that his military service would be the best chance for him to do so."

"John served his country to the fullest, fulfilling both of his goals," she added.

In addition to these two couples, Matthew McQuinn, 27, and Jon Blunk, 26, died saving their girlfriends in similar ways. Their girlfriends Samantha Yowler, 26, and Jansen Young, 21, did not respond to requests for comment.

http://news.yahoo.com/women-survived-the...topstories.html
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:29 AM

SB brings up ALL good points/suggestions. I don't think one needs to be a gun expert to have an opinion. While I don't know a lot about guns I do think and agree with background checks, training,, etc. Granted, we'll NEVER stop everyone but we may prevent some horrible event like Colorado and the others.

About a year or so ago, a cable channel ran a program on gun shows. They had a reporter posed as a gun buyer. He went to the gun show talked to the guy behind the counter about guns and picked one out. He asked if they did background check and the guy said yes. The "fake" buyer said, we'll you'll probably see something derogatory in my background. The guy behind the counter told him (loosely) "we can get around that."

Anyway, what I find really upsetting by most of the Right & gun owners is that it seems that even the mere discussion seems to be off limits. It's spun into "taking away 2nd amendment rights" and NOT as a matter of regulating. People buy into it and thus I have no doubt the matter is closed and NOTHING will be done. frown

Anyway,gun owners have their precious 2nd amendment right but we all also have our precious 1st amendment right as well. AND, I am trying to be as calm/kind as possible on a subject that I do feel strongly about. wink

TIS
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:37 AM

TIS, unlike me, you always manage to make your point calmly. Must be that angelic side!

I know that the guns used in three of the most famous and deadly of these shootings, Columbine, Virginia Tech and now Aurora, were all purchased legally. That tells me that there's every chance that something is wrong with the process.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
TIS, unlike me, you always manage to make your point calmly. Must be that angelic side!

I know that the guns used in three of the most famous and deadly of these shootings, Columbine, Virginia Tech and now Aurora, were all purchased legally. That tells me that there's every chance that something is wrong with the process.


SB,

And I believed you mentioned in above post, Holmes purchased a huge amount of ammo on-line (don't remember exact amount). I don't know if there's a procedure to check/question or whatever but yea, that sounds off to me as well. confused

TIS
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:50 AM

Well TIS, at least you acknowledged the 2nd amendment. In doing so, you might also acknowledge that additional federal regulations are unlikely. That means that further regulations will only be imposed by states. That's pretty unlikely too.
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
TIS, unlike me, you always manage to make your point calmly. Must be that angelic side!

I know that the guns used in three of the most famous and deadly of these shootings, Columbine, Virginia Tech and now Aurora, were all purchased legally. That tells me that there's every chance that something is wrong with the process.


to tell the truth would they have found anything on the records for the columbine shooters and holmes? if i remember right the shooters from columbine had no police history nor mental history that was documented. maybe you could argue age since they were still high school students. holmes from what has been reported was the same thing. either way virginia tech could have been avoided if there was a background check of police and mental records.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 02:58 AM

Just a thought to build off Bam's...Holmes purchased (for what I understand) a HUGE amount of ammo on line which is legal I guess (?). IF there were any checks/balances/regulations in place, could have they checked him out; gone to his apartment and actually had busted him before he killed all those people? confused


TIS
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 03:00 AM

both of the shooters in the columbine massacre were underage at the time of the shootings i believe and as a result somebody had to purchase the weapons for them, which was against the law. see how that works. another issue which was hardly discussed was that at least one of the shooters, i think it was dylan clebolt, was on some sort of ssri(anti-depressant). these drugs have proven time and time again to cause terrible problems, yet its rarely looked at. bottom line if you ask me is that we need to hold individuals accountable for thier actions and understand that in a truely free society we have risks. sometimes they are terrible, but thats the price we pay.

one final example i can give is the OKC bombinigs. that man killed scores more, yet he didnt use any firearms. nobody pushed to restrict the sale of fertilizer after that. guns are an inanimate object and they are no more dangerous than the person using them. is it easier to kill people with a gun than with a knife? sure but the bottom line is that humans have been killing each other for as long as we have been around and its not going to stop if a tool is highly restricted. humans are also very adaptive and as soon as guns are banned knives will be the next biggest killer as they are in the uk. the rules that i live by are treat other people as you would like to be treated and be nice. its sad that its not the case but don't give up, people aren't evil for the most part, some of us are just fucking crazy and should be dealt with accordingly just not at the expense of the majority!
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Like I've said repeatedly here, I don't have a problem with law-abiding citizens obtaining weapons for personal use.

Law abiding is the key issue. People who want to ban all guns (mostly people who've never owned one) mislead themselves and others by assuming that a ban will end gun violence. Any law enforcement officer will tell you that the bad guys always get guns. Not a coincidence that Washington DC has the highest rate of gun crimes--and makes it practically impossible for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves.

I believe that states and localities have a right to use sensible gun controls to assure public safety. Rules differ by state because states have different needs for public safety. When I lived in NJ, I had to go through a lengthy, complex background check before I got a gun permit. Background check (federal only) took ten minutes in AZ. But I got what I wanted because I'm a law-abiding citizen.

In 2006, when I got my CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) permit here, only two homicides were committed by CCW holders. No surprise: Anyone who goes through the extensive training, background check and fingerprinting to get a CCW is by definition a law-abiding citizen.
Quote:
However, I do believe that every gun purchase should require a waiting period of no more than a few days to enable the government to perform a background check, and it should require a license. Maybe there should also be mandatory safety training to try and cut down on accidental shootings. That's certainly not unreasonable.

Some states and localities do require that.


Quote:
I would like to ask how one buys ammunition? Is there a limit? Do you need to show ID? Does it vary from state to state? I would like to know more before I could possibly try to offer an alternative to the way it's done now.

Again, it varies by state. NJ requires ID to buy ammo locally, but there are no checks for buying ammo mail-order. Mass., Alaska and Illinois ban mail order purchases--over-the-counter only. There are no limits to the amount of ammo you can buy mail order. Some people buy in bulk because they get big discounts for bulk--just like the discounts we get for buying the 55-gallon drum of extra virgin olive oil at Costco. wink

Quote:
Also, I asked a question several posts up, and I was sincere about wanting to know people's opinion. Since the USA is 4th in the world in firearm deaths per 100,000 people, is it because we lack gun control or are Americans more violent by nature???


Fair question. I don't know the answer. I think that violence is a big part of popular culture in the US. Recall that horror comics were banned in the Fifties because they were thought to warp kids' minds. The FCC and Hollywood's Code Enforcement Office periodically attempted to curb depictions of violence in TV shows and movies. Sex and nudity used to be banned in films. All of that censorship went away because, at the end of the day, people want that stuff. Go into any movie theater today and watch the trailers: they always show the "action" scenes, complete with bombs and guns, and they crank up the volume. Is that a cause of gun massacres? Did it influence the shooters? Who knows? I will bet that, as the Aurora case unfolds, we'll find that the bastard is seriously unbalanced.
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 03:05 AM

Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Just a thought to build off Bam's...Holmes purchased (for what I understand) a HUGE amount of ammo on line which is legal I guess (?). IF there were any checks/balances/regulations in place, could have they checked him out; gone to his apartment and actually had busted him before he killed all those people? confused


TIS


if there was something like the DEA for guns/ammo then yes they probably would have checked up on holmes or busted him. i mean people do get busted by the DEA if they buy so much cough syrup or what not for drug making.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 03:08 AM

Originally Posted By: BAM_233
if there was something like the DEA for guns/ammo then yes they probably would have checked up on holmes or busted him. i mean people do get busted by the DEA if they buy so much cough syrup or what not for drug making.
i dont understand what you mean by busting him? before he commited the crime? am i missing something?
Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/25/12 03:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Five_Felonies
Originally Posted By: BAM_233
if there was something like the DEA for guns/ammo then yes they probably would have checked up on holmes or busted him. i mean people do get busted by the DEA if they buy so much cough syrup or what not for drug making.
i dont understand what you mean by busting him? before he commited the crime? am i missing something?


i added that in because of the bomb equipment, and maybe tear gas.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/26/12 02:20 AM

FF, people will always find a way to kill. However, a lone knife-wielding madman can't slaughter a dozen people and wound dozens more. As for the Columbine killers, yes someone went to a gunshow and walked out with the weapons the same day. The ease with which these weapons are available frightens me.
Posted By: Lilo

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/26/12 11:34 AM

It is nice that despite the strong feelings on both sides people have generally been respectful of others' opinions.

Most gun homicides and shootings are carried out with handguns and not rifles, so the Federal AWB had little to zero impact on crime. Indeed as others have pointed out there's only a cosmetic difference between an "assault rifle" and any other semi-automatic rifle. My grandfather's M1 doesn't look like an "assault rifle" but it fires a more powerful round than the AR-15.

After the VT shooting there were tighter restrictions placed on mentally ill people making gun purchases. But as far as I know right now, the Colorado shooter hadn't been found mentally disturbed. So his purchases were legal. Maybe more information will come out later.

As far as the ammo purchases setting off a red flag, perhaps. The government already has the ability, with or without warrant to collect and collate a rather frightening amount of information on you. Is that a good thing? I don't think so. Do we want the government to take the next step and maybe under NDAA start to indefinitely detain people? Because right now it looks like the killer was law-abiding right up until the time that he wasn't. So even if some ATF/Homeland Security/FBI agent had noticed this guy bought 6000 rounds, what do we want them to do with that information?

I think there are some reasonable restrictions on the right to bear arms that both sides can agree on (ie. automatic weapons are already severely limited) but the fear is that people like Bloomberg seemingly don't think that citizens should have weapons, period.

I am not crazy about guns but they can be necessary tools for self-defense. I haven't done this myself but I do know people that will go through hundreds of rounds at the gun range in a weekend or even a single night. rolleyes

Short of repealing the Second Amendment, I don't see a way out of this.
I want to maintain the ability to defend me and mine. Can we do that while preventing crazy people or criminals from obtaining guns? If so I support.

Even with a six shot revolver, if someone really knows what he is doing he could put a scary number of bullets downrange in seconds.
Posted By: Lilo

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/26/12 11:49 AM

What is an Assault Rifle
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/27/12 06:59 AM

Hi TIS it is legal to buy ammo and guns online. My hub buys ammo all the time on line.
Posted By: Dapper_Don

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/27/12 11:23 PM

[/quote]

if there was something like the DEA for guns/ammo then yes they probably would have checked up on holmes or busted him. i mean people do get busted by the DEA if they buy so much cough syrup or what not for drug making. [/quote]

There is its called the ATF- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, but like most other agencies there budget continues to get slashed by the GOP so they are only able to primarily focus on major investigations of Bikers, Cartels, etc.
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/27/12 11:30 PM

one for the good guys, cops stop potential massacre...

http://gma.yahoo.com/joker-massacre-foiled-maryland-cops-144301805--abc-news-topstories.html

Posted By: BAM_233

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/27/12 11:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
[/quote]

if there was something like the DEA for guns/ammo then yes they probably would have checked up on holmes or busted him. i mean people do get busted by the DEA if they buy so much cough syrup or what not for drug making.


There is its called the ATF- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, but like most other agencies there budget continues to get slashed by the GOP so they are only able to primarily focus on major investigations of Bikers, Cartels, etc. [/quote]

thanks for the info dapper. yea im not surprised that the government did that. and, i doubt anybody will try to put money back into the agency.
Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/28/12 02:07 AM

So, I can buy as many bullets as I want with no oversight, but if I have a cold and have to buy a box of Sudafed, I need to show photo ID which is entered into a national database.
Posted By: olivant

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/28/12 02:45 AM

Neither the US Constitution nor the constitution of any state directly or indirectly addresses Sudafed or any drug. Pharmaceuticals are addressed by federal and state stautory law.
Posted By: Mignon

Re: Colorado Shooting - 07/28/12 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
So, I can buy as many bullets as I want with no oversight, but if I have a cold and have to buy a box of Sudafed, I need to show photo ID which is entered into a national database.


SB, We hardly ever agree about anything on here but I agree with you about showing ID just to get cold medicine.
Posted By: Mastronardo

The Dark Knight Rises - 08/17/12 02:24 PM

What really happened during the Dark Knight Rises premiere? We all heard about a man named James Holmes who went into a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, and starting shooting at the people inside. Well, here’s a different perspective from what the media is saying about the massacre, written by Grace Powers — http://usahitman.com/acsasu/
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/17/12 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
What really happened during the Dark Knight Rises premiere? We all heard about a man named James Holmes who went into a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, and starting shooting at the people inside. Well, here’s a different perspective from what the media is saying about the massacre, written by Grace Powers — http://usahitman.com/acsasu/

That's the most ridiculous "conspiracy theory" I've ever read in my life.
Posted By: fathersson

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/17/12 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
What really happened during the Dark Knight Rises premiere? We all heard about a man named James Holmes who went into a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, and starting shooting at the people inside. Well, here’s a different perspective from what the media is saying about the massacre, written by Grace Powers — http://usahitman.com/acsasu/

That's the most ridiculous "conspiracy theory" I've ever read in my life.



Sounds like a made for TV movie....See what Carrot Top is doing and we could start shooting this fall.

But, like they say the strangest things turn out to be true.... whistle

still would make a great novel topic.... lol
Posted By: Mastronardo

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/18/12 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
What really happened during the Dark Knight Rises premiere? We all heard about a man named James Holmes who went into a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, and starting shooting at the people inside. Well, here’s a different perspective from what the media is saying about the massacre, written by Grace Powers — http://usahitman.com/acsasu/

That's the most ridiculous "conspiracy theory" I've ever read in my life.

You’re awfully skeptic. Did you see Holmes in court? He was clearly drugged.
Posted By: ronnierocketAGO

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/18/12 03:27 PM

There's one problem with that conspiracy theory: It makes no sense.

Besides, if you believe in it, then it's obviously failed at what it intended to do if indeed you believe in that nonsense.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/18/12 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
What really happened during the Dark Knight Rises premiere? We all heard about a man named James Holmes who went into a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, and starting shooting at the people inside. Well, here’s a different perspective from what the media is saying about the massacre, written by Grace Powers — http://usahitman.com/acsasu/

That's the most ridiculous "conspiracy theory" I've ever read in my life.

You’re awfully skeptic. Did you see Holmes in court? He was clearly drugged.

It just makes no sense. If they (whoever "they" are supposed to be) were setting up Holmes as some kind of patsy, they certainly would have killed him at the movie theatre in a "death-by-cop" scenario.

This conspiracy is insulting to the people who lost their lives and all of their loved ones. It was obviously started by some anti-bank, anti-government nutjob who can't hold down a job and support himself, so he has to blame the banks for everything.

And Mastronardo,

You obviously didn't start this rumor, so I'm not addressing you personally smile.
Posted By: Mastronardo

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/18/12 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
What really happened during the Dark Knight Rises premiere? We all heard about a man named James Holmes who went into a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, and starting shooting at the people inside. Well, here’s a different perspective from what the media is saying about the massacre, written by Grace Powers — http://usahitman.com/acsasu/

That's the most ridiculous "conspiracy theory" I've ever read in my life.

You’re awfully skeptic. Did you see Holmes in court? He was clearly drugged.

It just makes no sense. If they (whoever "they" are supposed to be) were setting up Holmes as some kind of patsy, they certainly would have killed him at the movie theatre in a "death-by-cop" scenario.

This conspiracy is insulting to the people who lost their lives and all of their loved ones. It was obviously started by some anti-bank, anti-government nutjob who can't hold down a job and support himself, so he has to blame the banks for everything.

And Mastronardo,

You obviously didn't start this rumor, so I'm not addressing you personally smile.

Then why was he locked inside his car?

I appreciate your opinion and I meant no disrespect to those effected by the Colorado Massacre... But this conspiracy theory is like those that were made after the 9/11 attack. Everybody think differently.
Posted By: klydon1

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/19/12 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Mastronardo
But this conspiracy theory is like those that were made after the 9/11 attack.


Can't argue with you there. wink
Posted By: Five_Felonies

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/19/12 06:24 PM

i don't think that this was an inside job, but when things like this happen we always need to look deep into it and remember that anything is a possibility. false flag events have happened many times in the past and to think that our wonderful government is above that would be dangerous. i'm not sure how many of you here are familiar with operation northwoods, so check it out. here is the wiki article which gives an overview..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

here is the declassified documents, copy and paste...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
Posted By: olivant

Re: The Dark Knight Rises - 08/19/12 07:00 PM

Keep in mind that both criminal and governmental investigations of LIBOR by a multitude of nations commenced no later than 2008 and there have been any number of protagonists privy to LIBOR related information that have testified or otherwise provided evidence.
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