How Important Is a College Education?

I was just curious to see what some of the thoughts and opinions are regarding the importance of getting a college education.

Very important, for a variety of reasons:

1. College exposes you to books, subjects and people you wouldn't otherwise encounter--a broadening experience.

2. You need college training to qualify for work in many, many fields and professions.

3. You'll earn far more money in your working lifetime than you would if you just had a high school diploma. See here:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm

4. Whether we like it or not, this society, like all others, is elitist. People with college or advanced degrees have more status than people who don't. A college degree opens doors for you--socially, economically, professionally--that would be closed to a HS grad.

Well, most directly, it's as important as potential employers want it to be. We older Board members remember when a high school education could qualify you for many jobs. The number of such jobs has declined. Even many police departments want their recruits to have at least an Associates Degree or 40+ hours of college. As TB pints out, a college education can expose you to so much more than you'd obtain without it.

Today, more than ever, you are in a lot of trouble without a college degree. Blue collar union type jobs are fast becoming a thing of the past. Computers and the Internet are eliminating the need for jobs in everything from publishing (look at the recent Borders bankruptcy) to even the most mundane job like a tool booth collector (thank you EZ Pass).

My oldest daughter graduated the University of Miami this past December, and starts grad school at FIU in the fall. My younger daughter is in her freshman year at Penn State, and my son just started Stepinac High School. This is costing my wife and I a small fortune, but it's money well spent. I just thank God that all three of them enjoy the academic life .

College these days IS essential. Gone are our parents days of quitting high school and getting a fairly decent job. And, gone is the thinking that a H.S. diploma is enough.

Of course not everyone is college material but one needs a trade school, or to train in a particular field. I can't imagine anyone who only has a high school diploma being able to move ahead in today's world. With technology moving so quickly everyone will need to be computer savvy. And, that's just a start.

TIS

I totally agree with EVERYTHING that has been said here so far. A college degree is definitely a must these days. As a matter of fact most employers these days are looking for more than just a basic college degree. Many are now asking for the prospective employee to have Bachelors degrees.

So it really goes to show you how important a college education is in order to have a chance at making it in this world.

When I graduated from High School I just didn't want to go to anymore school. A four year college seemed so forever. It was my dear father who kept telling me, to get a little more than HS (he never finished HS). He thought it would be good to have some "extra" schooling. At the time, I didn't want to do it but I did as my father said. We compromised and I went to business college, although only for one year. To this day, I think of our going back & forth and my "know it all" attitude, and realize of course my dad was right. Education never hurts. Today, it is a MUST!

It'd be interesting to get input from any of our BB friends who are attending college. Anyone care to post what they are studying and/or their goals, college life, etc.?



TIS

It's important obviously but college degrees don't mean what they used to either, as Graduate school is becoming the new college. High school is only sufficient for those who have mechanical or technical skills not in need of furthur development in the University setting. It's not really necessary to expand one's education(economically speaking) in a college setting if one can already program a computer or fix a car. But I think the face of the modern day University is changing drastically in such technologically progressive times. Engineering and Sciences are the key for students seeking steady employment after college is over with, while the Arts and Humanities have never paid well and even less so today.

In fact, some colleges are trying to make studies in the Liberal and Performing Arts more relevant to modern life. After all, what's the point of sifting through 1,000 year old diatribes if they don't relate to today's modern problems? How superfluous is it for students to study the lineage and history of authors, philosophers, or poets who lived centuries ago? Not that I think a university should be 100% professionally oriented, but schools' inability to teach real life in drastically changing times is the cause of so many dropouts and God forbid student suicides (which occur every day in this country). Departments such as philosophy and literature are becoming little more than relics of the past.

And with the economy tightening and tales of graduates stuck in low-paying jobs with $50,000 in student loans, college doesn’t look like an automatic bargain. Over the past 30 years, the average cost of college tuition and fees has risen 250% for private schools and nearly 300% for public schools (in constant dollars). The salaries of professors have also risen much faster than those of other occupations. At Stanford, to take but one example, the salaries of full professors have leapt 58% in constant dollars since the mid-1980s. College presidents do even better. From 1992 to 2008, NYU’s presidential salary climbed to $1.27 million from $443,000. By 2008, a dozen presidents had passed the million-dollar mark.

DC, since I'm almost always surfing on CareerBuilder or Monster, I'm shocked to see that even some ads for Administrative Assistants ask for a Bachelor's Degree. I know police officers are even required to have at least an associates in Criminal Justice. I'm really surprised at how things have changed since I first entered the work force back in the 1980s.

My father was a NYC fireman. He started college and then dropped out. He was making $1,300/yr when I was born. He had to work multiple part-time jobs to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. The most unforgettable lesson he taught me was to finish college "if you don't want to end up like me." I had to work to help the family so I went to undergrad and grad school at night. Took me 12 years to earn my Master's, but it was well worth it. I'll always be grateful for my father's advice.

I decided to wait before weighing in on this, because I personally did not get a college education, did not want one at the time and was not persuaded into one by my parents...probably in part because they could not have afforded to send me.

After 30+ years of working and supporting myself and then myself & my daughter, I can say that I do ok, but would probably be doing better if I had college. But...what Frank Nitti says above is correct.

My 23 year old niece graduated college in 2009. After 4 years majoring in psychology, 2 years of applications and interviews, she is currently earning $13/hour and has a 2nd part-time job at a local mall. That is because she cannot get the kind of work she studied for without a graduate degree, which she currently cannot afford because she's paying off student loans. I have told her repeatedly to try employment agencies where she might end up with something that would pay at least a few dollars more an hour, but she doesn't seem to want to be stuck in an office job...says that is NOT what she spent 4yrs in college for and would rather work in a school/hospital which would more suit her education so far. Fair enough...but she is living at home, and seemingly caught in an endless circle which I hope she will somehow find her way out of.

While I still agree with all that a college education is certainly important...I can't help but wonder how many recent college graduates are in the same or similar situation.

As others have posted: the hurdles are higher now for college grads. Often an undergraduate degree alone is insufficient--employers can demand advanced degrees from applicants, whether or not an advanced degree is actually a requirement for a job.

When I was going to college, the classified job ads always had columns that started: "College grad wanted..." Companies like AT&T, Metropolitan Life, etc., would take any college grad with any kind of degree as a management trainee. Not today...

I'll graduate this May w/ a BA in film studies (some sort of honors attached, dont know exactly what the designation will be yet) and a BFA in film production from the University of Colorado. I never wanted to go here, the film school is a COMPLETE joke, and I was accepted into NYU but wasnt allowed by my parents to go (too young to legally decide for myself, yeah, I lied about my age when I was posting here years ago. Sorry.)

That may 'soil' my opinions here, but I always tell people, half jokingly, that I am putting myself into debt for 4.5 years of being miserable and for 2 worthless degrees. But 2 bachelors degrees from a joke of a film program, are, essentially, worthless in the workplace. What I'd ultimately like to do is write screenplays, a track which CU DOESNT EVEN OFFER. We have one class on screenwriting, which makes my application to MFA writing programs look highly suspect.

TB is right, I was exposed to all sorts of different things, BUT it was of my own accord, certainly not because of the school that I was exposed to these things. On that end of things, all I learned here was a confirmation of who I did NOT want to be; a daddy's money, So-Cal (no offense TIS) prick w/ no concept of reality, who can wreck his 2 year old BMW and Daddy will buy him an Audi. A leik, oh em gee, totally! sort of vapid idiot.

I have had some great experiences, but it has been in spite of being enrolled here. Those times have been when I was NOT anywhere near Boulder or the CU campus, like following the Bob Dylan tour for 4 years, to Kalamazoo MI or Lewiston, ME, and all the roads in between, and miles on my car. Then getting back after a week of driving around the country, back here to little LA, full of people who are clueless to anything besides drinking a case of Keystone Light and listening to pop "music" at the frat house, God, it was depressing.

Ehem, sorry for the rant. So yes, while I would say it is important, I dont necessarily feel I'm ahead, workplace wise.

College is overrated. We really could use more people at McDonald's let me tell ya..the other day I had difficulty finding an employee in there.

Hopefully college students will aspire to a bit more for a career.


TIS

I decided to try law school, but I could never in good conscience encourage our innocent youth to go down such a corrupt and destructive path.

As long as the situation at McDonald's is as it is then I will continue to urge them to forget about college and give McDonald's a shot.

I'm with you, Vinny. Why rack up tens of thousands in student loans when the food service industry is so attractive?? I mean, it's not like the pay sucks or the hours suck, or you have to deal with an ungrateful public that's waiting to sue you because you served them hot coffee hot. Education, schmeducation.

Do I get fries with that sarcasm?

Only if you get the value meal!

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm glad I have people like you in my corner SB. People who aren't afraid to stand up for what's right!!!

Education should be an end in itself.

I know a lot of people with degrees who don't know shit about anything other than what their degree is in. Which points us to two things: 1) there needs to be an integration of study and real life; 2) there needs to be an eradication of academic snobbery, ie., the elevation of the academic above the 'ordinary worker'.

Neither of those things are possible without wholesale changes to the society that accomodates such educational dysfunction in the first place.

The education system under capitalism is of course not removed from gross inequalities. That's obvious when you look at how some subjects are elevated above others, for the arbitrary reason of 'relevance to labour market'. But in the first place, you have to ask who has access to an education and how, and what that education actually constitutes.

There are various academic circles that are politically and morally repugnant, but have the official endorsement from the state.

The way capitalism is going, in an X number of years, there won't be any experts in any fields of interest or study, there'll just be a lot of people who know a little bit about everything, who know how to seem to know enough to get by on a conversational level.

"In the battle of ideas, weak ideas must be attacked." - Guy Debord

BTW, I graduated with a First in 'Film and English Studies' in 2009. In September I'm returning for a Masters in 'International Film'.

I'll be completing that with the view of doing a PhD, during and after which I'll be in a position to both teach other students and continue further study by way of writing, which incorporates getting published on areas you specialise in - which 'research' inherently demands and accomodates. I hope to continue more creative endeavours alongside the stuff that makes my living; I hope to live through the kind of revolution that would abolish the kinds of tensions, snobberies and inequalities I'm discussing here and to which I'm opposed.

It's interesting that for my application for my Masters funding - there are two scholarships available for my chosen course, and I'm up against not just Film Studies students, but Literature, Linguistics and Media students (and that's generous; some universities haven't been granted any scholarships, because they're not as officially highly ranked) - it becomes immediately obvious how broader, systemic deficiencies encourage the kind of careerism that's rampant throughout education and society as a whole; how as early as 14, children are having to think about what they want to do in terms of 'career', alongside education and whatever else 14-year-olds have to deal with. And I hear some people with the audacity to judge the same kids who, bewildered and pressured and without the support network of an educational system that is actually failing them daily, end up serving them burgers at MacDonald's (where else?), hating their bosses, being underpaid and overworked and generally falling into the same old same old broken nuclear family of capitalism...

Anyway, you find yourself writing research proposals with half an eye on what is more likely to get you funding; it becomes immediately more obvious how political agendas, governed by where the money is going to, determine how certain academic schools replicate a certain way of thinking. Capitalism begets careerism, often in spite of the person who becomes the careerist. How many people actually plan at an early age to teach Lacanian theory to 18-year-old fresher students? Not many if any is the answer to that. Most if not all will 'find themselves teaching in academia'. Staying inside academia, the academic risks removing themselves from social reality; not only that, but they'll do so because it is removed from an everyday grind. That's how horrific the economic state of society is, and that's why all kinds of horrible, fucked up snobberies are both established and developing as a result.

Death to capitalism and any of its apologists, I suppose.

What do we mean by 'free education'?

I never went, left school at 17 to start work. Worked ever since but never been remotely successful or made mega money. Lucky enough to have been in the same job for a few years now, got a good pension scheme going and my mortgage will soon be paid....but life is nothing but hard most of the time.

Hopefully my kids will all go on to college but that is going to cost them an arm and a leg as well. My eldest boy wants to be a builder, i have no problems with him learning a trade!!

When I was a manager with a very large science/technology company about 35 years ago, we occasionally brought on board a "college hire"--a graduate of a university science writing program whom we put to work in an entry-level position writing low-key news releases about our employees' promotions, retirements and service anniversaries. One of our college hires from the U. of Wisconsin science writing program worked out quite well. So, we asked him if he could find us another good candidate.

The guy he found for us was about 30 at the time, and had spent his entire adult life to that point at the University. He'd earned a Ph.D in Theoretical Physics, then decided he really didn't want to be a theoretical physicist after all. So he went back for another year and earned a Master's in Science Writing. And he applied with us, asking for $14k/year. We told him that we'd happily hire him, but the position didn't pay $14k--it called for $17k. He said he'd have to think about it.

A couple of weeks later, he called us to say that he'd decided to take a job as a staff writer for the University's science magazine--at $9k/yr.

Hey Capo,

Where or how does a PhD in Film (?) fit into the Marxist world?
Does Marxism have a place for "art" or individual creativity?

These are honest questions, no sarcasm or other ism/asm.

What do you mean by 'the Marxist world'?

What do you mean by asking 'does Marxism have a place for' art?

I can only answer vague questions vaguely.

I don't know if this answers your questions:

http://tinyurl.com/yzplexd

Great topic, DC. I agree with all of you on here that it is essential in today's world. A 4 year college degree today is almost a must. It is also amazing to learn and find out so much about yourself and others during the college experience. It helps you mature and understand how the world and businesses work.

Also, I guess I can add a little more to this. I started work part-time at a law firm during my senior year. I graduated last May and started working full-time, but with no benefits. It was $10 an hour. I had been applying to jobs since I graduated. I would only receive calls from insurance companies (that I didn't even apply to) that wanted me to sit at a phone and try to sell insurance all day. That's just not for me, so I stayed with my current job.

A couple of weeks ago, I finally got a call about an administrative assistant position. It has a lot of great benefits and my salary is an average entry level salary (30 k). However, I can earn quarterly bonuses that would make it 35-37k my first year. This week is my last week at the law office and I will be starting my new job next week. I am nervous about the new job and sad to leave all my great co-workers, but I assume this will be the next step in my career.

I guess my point is that I just believe a college degree is essential. This job I recently got hired for is most likely a position that definitely require a college degree back in the 60s or 70s. But hey, it's a changin world.

So good to hear from you Patrick! Sounds as though you are doing well. I wish you the best of luck on your new job and hope that this is the start of a successful and prosperous career!

Stay in touch.

For sure, DC. How you been?

I'm pretty damn good Patrick. Can't really complain. I can't believe that you have already finished college! Congratulations!

See,I always knew that you had it in you!

My goodness. Where have the years gone?

Thanks DC. I have no idea man. Time flies. I am going to be turning 23 in June. It's wild. Once I get settled in at my new job, I am hoping to start graduate school for my Master's in Secondary Counseling here at West Chester. I tried out history right after I graduated, but I just wasn't really into it.

GOOD FOR YOU PATRICK! EXCELLENT!

Tomorrow morning my wife, son and I will be attending a reception and open house for incoming students at the college he has decided to attend. He's going to major in business administration and finance and selected the school because of its reputation in this area. He also liked the fact that it is a smaller school within two hours of home. He was also fortunate to receive a pretty nice academic scholarship.

Back in 1984, my father got me a job making $50K+ a year right out of high school. It was pretty much an offer I couldn't refuse. I was a top student in high school too, and my mother was not happy that I chose the job over education. But what could I do? $50K back in 1985 was lot of money, especially to a teenager. 26 years later, I don't regret it. I've moved up the ladder, and make a lot of money despite my lack of a college degree. The days of getting a job like mine without a degree are over though. College is pretty much mandatory now if you want to earn a decent living.

Yeah, well, some of us weren't so lucky. Or maybe it was the field I had chosen, but it wasn't about the money. My first "career" job in counseling only paid $19.5k/year (about 1990) to start, but it was probably the best job I ever had (again, not monetarily). Of course after a career change some years later (unrelated to my college major) income more than tripled for a while. So I don't think it's necessary to have a college degree. At least not if you're smart enough to teach yourself.

You got to read this article:

Once the vast majority, [men]now make up just over 40 percent of the nation's college students.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41928806/ns/business-consumer_news

It was luck and politics. The job was what it was, but I was good at it. I did get to put my smarts to use when I moved up into management. Out of over 450 people that tested for the position I eventually got, only 9 of us passed the test. I was/am inline for another promotion, but with things shaky in NJ, I don't feel comfortable starting a new position at the bottom of the totem pole.

From time to time I let ya'll know some interesting stories about my students. Here's one from the fall semester.

I had a guy in an online class who failed to turn in November's assignments - three of them. So, I flunked him. He claimed that he had submitted the assignments. Well, the instructional system we use at the college doesn't lie. We had it examined and, sure enough, there was no evidence that he had submitted the assignments. Well, my boss said that in my syllabus I stated that doing the assignments is not an option, and that if you don't do them you will "probably" fail. She's right. It says that. It meant that if you don't do all the assignments because you were in a coma, I might exercise some latitude and let you complete the assignments when you emerge from your coma. Still, my boss said that "probably" might have been misinterpreted by the student. So, I said Okay. Change his grade to a D. She agreed. I'll let you know what happens next.

Just curious about something.

The student was already caught in a lie stating that he HAD submitted the assignments and then it was subsequently proven that he did not. So there was no misinterpretation because when the student deliberately lied, assuming that maybe everyone would think his work got lost in cyberspace...he wasn't really questionning the grade. Was he?

So shouldn't that alone negate the 'probably' issue? How can you (and your boss) you give a 'D' grade on work that does not exist? And how did the unsubmitted assignments fare against his other work throughout the course.

Should've failed him.

Well, the fact that he lied never came up. Assigning a D will lower his grade point average and will probably not transfer to any other educational institution. He'll end up having to take it over.

Well, it should have.

What you're telling us is that you failed the fellow because he failed to turn in 3 assignments. He then said he did turn them in, which was proven false.

You and your boss then decided to upgrade him to a 'D', because of a completely unrelated issue that he may have misinterpreted your definition of what would 'probably' fail him. Except he lied about it anyway. How could the lie NOT come up...it was the first thing you mentioned here!!

That's great. I don't know what the subject of the course is, but hope that all those who DID submit all 3 assignments (or even 1 or 2) were graded just as generously.

Nothing personal mind you...I'm just interpreting your post & really can't get around that deliberate lie, assuming the computer records can truly be depended upon. If he said he submitted the assignments when he knew he didn't...then it's because he KNEW he would 'probably' fail for not submitting them. Otherwise, why would he bother to lie about it??? He could just say, "You didn't say we would DEFINITELY fail for not turning them in, you only said we would PROBABLY fail! What about all my other work?"

Oh, well...no skin off my nose. Can't wait to read what happens next.

I didn't press it. To tell you the truth, I just didn't want to debate or argue the point and if the Dean got involved, this thing could have dragged out into the summer.

I don't blame you, am sure you have more important things to attend to. (Although teaching is one of the most important professions there is.)

It was a bad decision. At least he'll have to re-take the course.