Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas

I'm curious as to what Atheists and Agnostic do during Christmas. If there are any on the Gangster BB, do you treat it like any other day of the week? Do you go to work, do you go to a movie, do you party? I would hope you don't buy gifts for other people because the gift-giving has it's tradition in the Christmas spirit, which is based on the gifts of the Magi (three wisemen) who visited Jesus. Or do you view gift-giving as strictly secular with no connection to the birth of Jesus? Your thougths please.

Theres nothing to do but stay in. Everyone celebrates it so the movies are closed. Can't go there.

Really?

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Opening On December 25th, 2008 :

Bedtime Stories

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Marley & Me

The Spirit

Waltz with Bashir

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I don't know what cinema Cardi's referencing, but all three of my locals are closed on Christmas day.

I'm an atheist. I give gifts, and receive them. I think the commercialisation of Christmas is as "new" as Christianity is outdated. And that's as loaded an answer as the opening question was.

I say that clinically, without need nor want of argument. (Though there's a debate to be had should anyone wish.)

I am surprised that cinemas (or movie theaters to us) are not open in other areas. It's very common to go to see a movie on Christmas Day. When I was a kid we always had a big dinner at my grandma's house, and then someone would take the kids to see a movie. We always went during most holidays (Well, the kids did). The movies DC refers to are movies that will debut on Christmas day in local movie theaters. I guess we do things differently here in the U.S. It would seem very strange if all movie theaters closed.


TIS

Spirit Movie to debut on Christmas Day 08…
May 7, 2008 · No Comments
Lionsgate has decided to move the premiere of Frank Miller’s adaptation of Will Eisner’s The Spirit from January 16th, 2009 to December 25th 2008.

There are over 37k movie theaters in the US. As DC's and my post here point out, there are any number of theaters that are open on Christmas Day and films that have premiered on Christmas Day.

And by the way, Christmas is also a national holiday recognized for the goodwill and familial qualities that it engenders. Belief in a higher power is not a prerequisite to observing the spirit of the holiday.

That cinemas open on Christmas Day in the US shows the extent of its commercialisation; that people go to the cinema on Christmas Day shows the ordinariness of it, in terms of outdatedness - and I speak for the US, that most capitalistic (and Christian) of countries.

Money talks; as does, in other ways, familial emptiness.

Trying reading TIS' post above. The movies have been open on Christmas Day since I was a kid.

That some people dwell in the drool of their own vapid lives on Christmas Day can be the result of many things including their chosen alienation.

So if it's a family tradition, as TIS said, for families to take their kids to a movie on Christmas day, then it is familial emptiness? Even though the kids might love the tradition and look forward to it, regardless of the commercial motivation behind the theaters? If people enjoy paying money to see a movie on Christmas day then I don't see the problem with people having a good time doing it.

Refer to the first sentence too, not just the second. There are two points that compliment one another. On the one hand, them being open shows just how much of a leech Hollywood (capitalism wretchified) is, and how anti-Christian it is... on the other, that families go to see films on Christmas Day show how Christian they are; Hollywood's narrative and economic tendencies are very Christian - though if it were that Christian, staff would have a day off on this so-called "national holiday".

Like I said, money talks.

By the way, everyone: ^^^ best film of the year (so far).

And, predicting accusations of self-defeatism, Christianity in itself is self-defeating. Hence why my two points contradict one another.

Capo, I don't understand what the theaters being open has to do with Christianity. I have lots of friends who are Jewish. Are they anti-Christian if they want to go to a movie on Christmas?? That's as silly as me being accused of anti-semitism if I go to a movie on Passover. It's not MY holiday, just as Christmas isn't a holiday for someone who isn't a Christian.

As for "celebrating" the holiday if you're an atheist, I've said in the past that it's a lie. I have a friend who is Jewish and she tells me that she "loves celebrating Christmas". I told her that she doesn't. Christmas, by definition, is the celebration of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. If you don't believe that, you can't celebrate Christmas.

You can celebrate lights and trees and presents. It's not the same.

I saw the trailer today and was absolutely awe-struck. Top in my priority now.

From a different angle, Capo, you are sounding very similar to MaryCas in your criticism of what Christmas has become. It is a commercial holiday that's lost it's true meaning. I agree with both of you.

Don Cardi, I'm not American.

I definitely can appreciate the meaning Christmas has to Christians, As I was raised in a church till I was 11 and have read the Bible a few times. But, It is commercialized completely now, I think some non-Christians look at Christmas as a time to spend with their families and be thankful and giving.

I mean to Christians, wouldn't the Christmas tree, Santa clause and flying Reindeer be false magic and in some ways demonic. Santa if anything, is there to take away the "true" meaning of Christmas.

Also, It was originally a Pagan holiday that the Catholic church combined the two together.

So, I don't think it's wrong for non-Christians to celebrate the holiday in their own way.
Also, I'm not an Atheist, I do believe in a Creator, Just not the same way as religious people do.

While there is custom to bring gifts when you go visit a new born here for the first time, as is over there, though it is actually before the mother gives birth, here for our new year we give gifts or just cash to our youngsters. And our new year is in the Spring, and has been celebrated even longer than the birth of Christ. This custom of gift giving on New Year's Day has no religious significance whatsoever. Many traditions that are integrated in Christmas have come from German winter festivities and are older than Christianity.

It's in good spirit to start a new year exchanging gifts. I don't see why anyone should claim the ownership of this custom.

As for whatever day we could have off and spend it however we like, that day would be a great day for me, I don't really care why it is a holiday. Sadly we don't have Christmas off here and even our Christians celebrate birth of Christ on Jan 6, so I would be working.

This combining was done as a ruse so the Romans wouldn't find cause to arrest more Christians.

My dentist who was Jewish went to a Broadway show on Christmas Day. He said the traffic was light and it was easy to get around.

We all seem to agree that Christmas has become more of a secular holiday, but do Atheists give presents and say "Merry Christmas"? And if they do are they disrespecting the origins of the celebration?

I was expecting this question, as we had the same discussion last Christmas.

Religious people will be offended even if an atheist says "Happy Holidays" and exchanges gifts.

But that doesn't answer the question, no matter how many years it is asked.

Atheists don't respect the notion of God. So, if you feel that they are not respecting the religious origins of this celebration, you might be right. What's the new revelation here? It doesn't interfere with you believing what you want to believe. Does that answer you question?

I just came home from a birthday party and had to drop off some of the kids friends at their houses, and one of the kids had Christmas lights in the shape of a big '$' on the front of the house and nothing else. They are a funny family so I wasn't surprised to see that.

Am I offended? A little. Why? Because it is NOT a secular day. It's called CHRISTMAS and if you don't believe that it is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of God, then you can't "celebrate" Christmas. As I said earlier, you can celebrate presents and lights, but you are NOT celebrating the spirit of the holiday.

That doesn't mean that someone who is of another faith can't enjoy it or come to my house to participate in our Christmas Eve Feast of the Seven Fishes, but they can't celebrate the essence of the holiday.

I can go to a Seder and enjoy observing it, enjoy the rituals, the history, the food and its meaning, but I'm not "celebrating" Passover because I'm not Jewish.

Perhaps it's the word "celebrate" that is my personal problem.

Ugh. Why can't everyone just do their own thing and not worry about anyone else and how or what they celebrate whatever the hell they celebrate. The essence of that holiday has been lost by many of the same Christians who complain about it anyway.

BINGO.... we have a winner here.

I don't know if it's the word "celebrate" -- I "celebrated" Seder with friends once, and I'm not Jewish. I celebrated with them, and with all interest and due respect for it. I'd gladly share in the celebration of any holidays with those who normally practice them -- in fact, I welcome it to learn more about different cultures and beliefs. I really don't think I'm disrespecting their beliefs by my presence in their celebration. And while there, sure, I'm celebrating it whether I personally believe it or not, because it's not about me, it's about them and their beliefs and festivities.

A majority of self-proclaimed Christians don't celebrate the true meaning of Christmas either -- unless you count that one hour in church per year as "celebrating" -- so how can we possibly exclude non-Christians? Most everyone I assume celebrates Easter, but I bet most people don't even know what it means. I don't care if atheists color eggs and eat chocolate rabbits. I don't care if Buddhists put up Christmas trees and sing Silent Night -- and I'm sure pagans don't care if we Christians enjoy their All Hallow's Eve every October 31st while dressed up like hideous evil creatures.

IT'S ALL GOOD.

It's only not good when people start disrespecting other people's beliefs, or prohibiting them from celebrating their holidays. I personally welcome diversity and want to learn what I can from it. But all this nit-picking uptightness about public displays is a disgrace.

It's a shame that Christmas has become a hugely secular holiday beyond its original Christian (and previously pagan) roots. Everyone should celebrate it how they see fit, how they enjoy it, and how they spread joy to others -- whether they're Christian or not. What's more Christian than sharing... including such a joyous holiday?

For some it's Christ's Mass, for others it's Santa Claus and Rudolf. And for many, it's BOTH. Sauseege his own.

I like how you put it in perspective Geoff.

No, to me that's the difference. It's either a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, Son of God, or it's not. That IS Christmas.

Would I EXCLUDE a non-Christian from my Christmas table? That would sort of kill the whole meaning of it, wouldn't it?? My daughter is dating a Jewish boy. She's going to his house for Chanukah and he's coming with us to my brother's for Christmas Eve. I hope that they both learn something from being exposed to other faiths.

I plan on buying him a gift; however, although he will be celebrating WITH us, he's not going to be celebrating Christmas. And that's as it should be.

To me, you have to fully embrace the significance of the holiday in order of the holiday in order to celebrate it, but that's MY interpretation.

Maybe it is just semantics then... lol

Yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah.

Everyone celebrates something in their own way.

BTW - Christ's last supper was a seder.

Or it is the fact that the day in the calendar is called Christmas. People can have it off and exchange gifts or even just have it off. That's all the reason one needs to think Christmas is merry.

Personally I can't care less about spirits, origins or whatnot. There's no winning with some religious people. If you say "Happy Holidays!" it is offensive. If you say "Merry Christmas!" it is offensive as well.

Maybe they should change the name in the calendar. Then only the approved crowed in selected parishes could celebrate it the way it is intended to, with all the spiritualism that's needed and can be approved by a priest.

You know what? Afs is right. There is no winning this debate, which could go on forever. I stated my opinion.

Whatever everyone celebrates, I hope that they have a happy and healthy one, surrounded by those they love.

Hey Fred, how's Wilma?

Wow, this is a lively thread

Now, even though i believe in God i don't look on Christmas as a solely religious holiday. I have kids and so to me Christmas is the most special time of all,to be able to spend time with them and other family members is great(remember we do not have Thanksgiving).

Also my job requires me to work over Christmas sometimes,so when i do get the time off (as i have this year)it makes it even better!

As for the cinema argument?

Everything in the UK shuts down at on Christmas Day. You are lucky to find a pub open

But i am sure if cinemas did open people would go.

Just out of curiosity though. In the US are cinemas open on Thanksgiving?

Everyone knows I'm a practicing Catholic, with a healthy respect for other religions, especially Judaism, so I'm not even going to get into this loaded debate, except to say, If you're an Atheist, that's your business. Just don't pick Christmas week to start an argument here, because it's just not right.

Coincidentally, THE GODFATHER PART III opened on Christmas Day, 1990. I was 31 years old at the time, hardly a kid, yet I had to see it that day (as I'm sure so did many other board members).

I picked up my brother, who was still living with our parents at the time, two of our friends, and we went to the 12 noon showing up at the Hawthorne Multiplex in Westchester County.

We all got to my parents house at about 3:30. Everyone was festive, happy, a little drunk, and they didn't even miss us. Except for the movie itself, it was a great Christmas.

I am not quite getting this thread.

Everyone is entitled to celebrate Christmas any way he or she wants. In the USA it is both a secular and a religious holiday.

For many years when our kids were too old to believe in Santa, we would have a big dinner and arty on the 24th, go to midnight mass, and then come home and open presents. Then we'd slep in on Christmas day and do something that afternoon....usuallly involving going to see a movie.

So I guess we combined both the religious and secular aspects of it.

Saying an athiest cannot commemorate Christmas in some way is like saying a white person should not take off of work on MLK Day.

Another reason that Christmas Day has become almost afterthought (in my family), is that Christmas Eve has always been the more sacred night for us. The Italian tradition, the fish, Midnight Mass, etc...

As DT points out, by Christmas afternoon, we really just want to veg out a little bit.

The holiday season, starting with Thanksgiving, can be the loneliest time of the year for people without families, homes, etc. Suicide rates go up during the holiday season.
That's why, for some, going to a movie and having a dinner out on Xmas can be close to a life-saver.

This year has provided me with a profound insight about some of this angst that comes with the hoidays. For economic reasons I had to cut back significantly on gift giving, and instead of running out and buying "stuff" for people, I bought things like goats and chickens for third world countries, and put it in the name of the person to whom I was giving the gift. It made me feel good, and it was good to my wallet. We get way too consumed with "stuff" and I think that adoration of materialism is so in conflict with the true apirit of the season, it is bound to depress.

My husband and I decided long ago that we really didn't need more stuff. We have a nice house, plenty of food, and our needs are more than sufficiently met, which leaves us better off than a lot of people in this world.

We decided a few years ago to give each other the gift of time. We take a night or two and go off together. We stay someplace close to home, like Manhattan or Atlantic City, but it's a nice way to recharge and talk TO each other instead of AT each other as we run from one thing to another.

Very very true.

While you're eating your massive meals and giving each other products etc, there are people suffering. So Instead of bickering about the right and wrong reasons for celebrating Christmas, remember how lucky you are!

As often happens, discussions of religion and politics can produce division instead of bringing people together.

I think that during the holiday season, people should open their homes and hearts to those around them. It is only through education and exposure to other cultures and beliefs that such divisiveness can be conquered.

I still can't stand the idea that Christmas, a very holy day in the Christian religion, has become a secular holiday. It shouldn't be. However, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't share.

Amen to that.

At least Wal-Mart learned their lesson and abandoned their "Happy Holidays" campaign from last year, in favor of the more traditional "Merry Christmas."

Good God! I actually agree with Bill O'Reilly about something. Quick, get me some aspirin.

Has Hell froze over PB?

I dunno, Miggie. I'm afraid if I take a nap, I'll wake up listening to banjo music, with a hankering for hillybilly food.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee............

Hmmmmmmm PB you do that eerily well.

I thought he did #2 even better

Thate would be after he squealed like a pig.

I recieved this today.

*Twas the month before Christmas**

When all through our land,**Not a Christian was praying**Nor taking a stand.**See the PC Police had taken away,**The reason for Christmas - no one could say.**The children were told by their schools not to sing,**About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.**It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say** December 25th is just a ' Holiday '.**Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit**Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!**CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod**Something was changing, something quite odd! **Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa**In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.**As Targets were hanging their trees upside down** At Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.**At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears**You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.**Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty**Are words that were used to intimidate me.**Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen**On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton !**At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter**To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.**And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith** Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace**The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded**The reason for the season, stopped before it started.**So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' under your 'Dream Tree'**Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.**Choose your words carefully, choose what you say**Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS

What is the significance of two asterisks ** throughout that post?

I am guessing to indicate a space

like

this

Well, the Senate, nor anyone else, can take away your faith. That's the nice thing about faith. It's yours and it's personal. You can't legislate faith. What the government CAN do is enforce the Constitution and separate Church and State.

I'm teaching the minimester and, as I have done for many semesters, next week I will show to my class a scene from a movie that I treasure: The Bells of St. Mary's. The scene is where Bing Crosby and Ingrid Bergman watch the grade school kids rehearse their Christmas play about the birth of Jesus. It is in B&W and is one of the most precious scenes in cinema. That scene captures what Christmas is and should be about.

I remember that scene, though I am not really a fan of that movie.

O Come All Ye Faithful,
Joyful and Triumphant.

Amen to that.

I'm agnostic, but I guess I celebrate. But, I think it's mainly just because my family celebrates. I don't really embrace or celebrate the meaning of Christmas nearly as much as the idea... Which I guess would be to just be a decent person and treat everyone as such, but I think that's something we should all practice everyday.

I think, in the end, it's an excuse to get a kick out of my gigantic and dysfunctional hilarious family.

That's why I never want to go to my girlfriends house for Christmas, but I end up sitting back with her cousin and laughing at how crazy all the women, of all ages, are when they get together. It's no wonder there are so few men in the family.

The Philadelphia mob?

[Mig]AMEN! [/Mig]

A good point, perhaps, but yes. Christianity refers to one god. Jews are as anti-Christian as Atheists.

And Jews are polytheistic?? Since you're so open to learning, perhaps you should take a theology course.

Wait... Jews don't believe in Christ being the son of God so that makes them anti-Christian, right? I think what Capo said was correct.

What in the world are you talking about?

No, he originally said that Jews going to the movies on Christmas makes them anti-Christian, which made little or no sense. If I go to the movies on Passover, am I an anti-Semite??

As for the prefix "anti-", it depends on your meaning. It's connotation is quite negative (at least to me) and means that you OPPOSE something, or you are prejudiced against something. I don't think that Jewish people are generally OPPOSED to Christians because they don't share beliefs or go to the movies on Christian holidays.

Jews and Christians. Or maybe constitution. Or may be gas prices, who knows.

All of the world's problems are linguistic, it seems.

And SB is right; "anti-" brings negative connotations.

It's not necessarily meant to mean "actively against", here; but different beliefs in the world cannot, by definition, if they want to take themselves seriously, allow for any other theistic possibility. As I said earlier in the thread, theists are self-defeating.

Fall back on the "different strokes for different folks" banality, but that's about as self-dishonest as the belief in the first place.

But maybe that's a linguistic problem in itself; the term "belief" is quite a wooly concept.

At any rate, Merry Christmas; and here's to better gas prices next year.

Ah, another post from Capo about how totally superior and cool it is to be without faith, and, apparently, to be him.

Thank you for dropping by to mock the other members of the board for the banality of their posts and, seemingly, their existence.

Without you to shine a light into the darkness of our lives on occasion, think how very sad and empty our lives would be.

Wishing everyone here a lovely holiday season, although, according to Capo, if you don't celebrate Christmas, I, in my self-defeating Christian way, hate you.

Hate's a strong word.

and Love is just a four letter word.....like Hate, but I prefer Love as I'm sure SB does, and I Love her. Peace on Earth, Good Will toward men (and women). And Jesus gave us the eleventh commandment, love one another. What so ever you do for the least of your brothers, that you do unto Me.