Something To Think About...

Right on, right on...

Here is just something that most folks--

--Even "cool" or "progressive' or "enlightened" folks--

-- Just do NOT take the time to really THINK about!!!

Like, exactly HOW did that cow or pig or chicken that was once a living, feeling, soul-possessing creation of GOD--

-- End up as a greasy artery-clogging lump of charred flesh on a plate???

I am SO sick and tired of people who CLAIM to be animal lovers--

-- But they keep right on EATING THEIR CORPSES!!!

I think it is because there are so many addictive chemicals (steroids, hormones, antibiotics, growth-enhancers) that they inject the animals with nowadays... when you stop, you go craving and withdrawing from the CHEMICALS.

People always say "I LOVE the TASTE!!!"

Let me tell you-- When I quit eating flesh-foods in the early 1980's, "they" did NOT make it easy to do!!! You had to go to an expensive $$$ "health-food" store to get the good stuff if you did not want to just live on peanut butter!!!

But NOW, it is EASY!!!

You can go into ANY major "super-market" and find whole aisles FULL of meat-substitutes, soy milk, veggie burgers, meatless frozen dinners and ALL KINDS of good stuff-- Right down your street!!!

And most of them taste BETTER or EXACTLY LIKE the animal-counterparts!!!

So if you had a choice---


NOT if you lived in the wilderness and HAD to eat whatever you could just to survive--

But if you could CHOOSE to live your life better and healthier WITHOUT eating dead animals--

What would YOU choose to do!?!?!?!

To put it in somewhat of a George Carlin analogy, humans are nothing more then savage jungle beats, that have sneakers with lights in the heal.

Do you really think humans will stop eating meat just because they can make a meat looking dish that tastes like shit? It's natural. I eat all kinds of meat and I am far from ashamed. My favorite? Capicola. What is it? Slicings from a pig's shoulder and neck.

I love dogs and cats, everything else is fair game. Hypocritical? Yes. Honest? Yes.

I went to a deli last week and asked the waiter to suggest something. He suggested a tongue sandwich. I was grossed out thinking about eating something that came out of an animal's mouth.

I ordered a fried egg sandwich.

I haven't eaten meat since I was about six and realized what meat was; but I've never felt the need to change others. Yeah, it's pretty fucked up and pointless to eat meat when we don't need too... But as long as I don't have to eat or even touch it, I'm fine (touching it--even cutting into it--is the worst... Makes me feel physically ill).

Although, you know who piss me off? PETA. They're just Vegan terrorists. They put animals above humans, which is completely fucking warped. Humans and animals should both be treated respectfully and granted their right to be. PETA give vegetarians a bad name, if you ask me. I don't eat seafood, I don't eat meat, and I only eat eggs when included in a recipe (IE baked goods), but please--keep PETA the fuck away from my house.

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That was just mean.

They both look disgusting, though. I never caught the whole appeal on meat; it looks, smells, and tastes disgusting. "I'm so hungry! I could just bite into a giant bloody, chewy slab of meat! Oh how I love the smell of cooked flesh!"

Never got it.

This looks so delish.

I was a strict vegetarian for about 25 years. That was three years ago. Since then I have different types of meat once. I ate chicken maybe thrice or so. And some egg product like omelet a bit more. Recently, on the last day of my summer internship, all the co-ops were taken out for a lunch by our manager. The popular choice was sushi, and I ate raw fishes too. I come from a family where it is not permitted to eat meat/eggs according to religious beliefs. But since I am no longer a believer, I have tried to break my taboo. Having tasted beef, chicken, fish etc, I don't like any of them. I am a vegetarian on 99.9% of occasions. In India where I am from, unlike here in US, there are hundreds of great tasting vegetarian dishes and I love them. I am not against meat consumption or killing animals. I don't care so much about animals. But I am against people who claim to love animals, but justify eating meat because either it is for food (not pleasure) or because of the reason that they are bred for that specific purpose. They would go on and on about fur, cosmetics, tiger skin, dolphins etc, but would not mind eating meat

I never understood why those who choose not to eat meat still want to PRETEND to eat meat.

Imitation hot dogs? WHY??

Be proud of yourself if you choose not to eat meat -- don't freakin' PRETEND to do it

That's because most livestock is bred specifically to be eaten. If no one ate meat, those animals wouldn't even have lived. In fact, many species wouldn't even be around right now if they weren't meant to be eaten or used.

Ever see a "wild" dairy cow?

I love animals, and I feel for every single one of them. Really, I do! I, personally, could never physically kill one to eat it. But most food-item animals would never have been born if they weren't meant to die. Carrots and spinach, too, by the way.

I take more offense to some cultures abusing and eating animals usually considered as house pets. THAT disgusts me to no end. Cats and dogs being mistreated makes me sick. Regardless of some cultures who may disagree with me, at the same time, I allow others to disagree with ME that livestock is meant to be eaten, and are only alive TO be eaten.

The biggest problem, in my eyes, is not WHAT we eat, but how much we -- as a society -- WASTE. Pretty sad to me. I was always taught to eat however much you want, but eat what you take. Like buffet signs. But it's true. There's nothing worse than wasted food with all the starving people in the world.

Okay, I will stop rambling now.

Would you accept it if someone specifically bred certain number of dogs just for killing? One could also say that those specific set of dogs wouldn't have been on earth if not for that one guy who decided to breed them (although only for killing)

You know, this got me thinking... There is something really messed up about just tossing a piece of uneaten meat in the trash, considering where it came from. Just think about it. You're throwing another being's flesh away so it may be disposed of at a waste site. That strikes me as incredibly disturbing and completely messed up.

How does eating it make it any better. Having killed, you eat it, throw it, do anything else - nothing changes the fact that it was killed. And like the first post mentioned, we are not talking about facing starvation in jungle where we have to kill. Eating is just as bad as throwing it. But that is not what geoff referred to probably, he makes a point about people wasting when many are starving, not specifically meat.

I'm glad LLC agrees with me; in fact, with the logic I presented, I can't really argue with svsg either. I'm mentally mature like that. But svsg... I, personally, see a difference between a beef cow, or chicken, or pig -- specifically bred to be eaten -- than anything related to a pet. I think breeding dogs specifically for dog fights or killing (of anything) to be much worse. But that's just me. Well, not just me, but probably MOST civilized people.

But I see your argument. I just don't agree with it.

If you're a vegetarian yet have no problem breeding dogs specifically to "pull a Vick" or whatever, then how's that any better?

Quick summary: Most animals today (looking at quantity) are probably alive to begin with to be eaten. Otherwise, they wouldn't even have lived at all. Is it a horrible thing the way they're slaughtered? Probably. Most people don't see that part of it - they just order their buckets of chicken or burgers or dogs....

But I still have a hard time w/ (literally) dogs, or cats, etc. Most civilized families include dogs and cats as family members -- literally -- and THAT is my problem, that some cultures don't see that line...

ok, you have a sentimental attachment for dogs and cats as you consider them as pets. How about fishes?

Two points to be considered for fishes:
1) They are not bred. Fishes (or many other sea food) caught in sea just happen to be there on their own
2) Fishes are common as pets. Aquariums, fish tanks or jars are also part of civilized world. Maybe not the exact species, but enough for the sake of sentimental association.

I'm not an animal lover.

On the contrary... "farm-raised" fish are specifically bred -- without the (supposed) "mercury problems" in real ("natural" = polluted)) waters...

Secondly, as far as all scientists know... fish have no emotions or feelings. And there's never been any fish species, as far as I know, even nearly on the verge of extinction... but...

Are there a lot of households that keep tuna or salmon or whatnot as pets???

No it is no better. I am not a vegetarian today for moral reasons. I used to have some morals once upon a time As I told before, I am a vegetarian by habit and don't find meat tasty or necessary. I was just presenting an argument for the sake of logic. Humans have civilized very recently in the time scale of actual human evolution. They were hunter-gatherers first and began cultivating very recently. Some primate species including some human cultures are cannibalistic. So, I don't think vegetarianism is very natural for us. But we got over a lot of our animal instincts because of culture. No one accepts cannibalism today. Movies as recent as in 70s had real animal killings, but today you cannot make them. Maybe two hundred years later, the society will perceive meat eating as uncivilized. Who knows!

Well, as long as you admit it's a personal decision on your part (that seems questionable even), then we're good.....

Now fishes have no feelings or emotion ? Apparently you haven't seen Finding Nemo, where the father fish swims across continents to save his son. But no, you don't want to listen to all that. Carry on with your cruel practice of eating fishes, they aren't going to be extinct soon. As they say, there are lots of fishes in the sea

You don't have to tell me; I've been a strict vegetarian for eleven years. I eat dairy, but that's it. No meat, no seafood. The entire situation is absolutely fucked up. Biting into another being's flesh after cooking it, etc. It's all very strange. If this were 500 BC, and we were not present the luxury of mass-processed vegetables, fruit, wheat and the likes, then fine, Go eat a ferret or whatever to survive. But it's not. We're very much so capable of finding alternative sources of food that are less harmful to the ecosystem and life. But society doesn't want to. It's just another quarrel I'll bring to my grave.

I'm not one to tell someone what to do though. I don't make it a point to stop others from consuming meat; but I still don't understand it. The idea of meat itself isn't just unsatisfying, it's repulsive. Or that's how I see it. I can't picture myself keeping meat down without vomiting it back up (insert sexual innuendo here).

Oh, and I don't care if an animal lacks cognitive thought or emotion; it can still feel physical pain.

What seems questionable?

First off... there is MUCH evidence of vegetation (especially trees) having what could be considered "awareness" of their environment... they know when their neighbors are in despair, like during a forest fire for instance.

Listen, I really don't care who eats meat or not - there are a few things even I find repulsive, albeit rare! lol -- so how can I say anything? The point is, I don't mind if someone disagrees with me... or most of the Western World for that matter ... just as long as it's not hipocritical....

I still didn't get an explanation of tofu dogs or veggie burgers, btw

I've never had a veggie burger, and I don't want one. Like I said, the taste of meat makes me feel ill.

And you proved this, how?

Of course they surely "feel" *something*... but listen, I studied this shit for 8 years in college...

The saying goes... fish are never board, because they're too dumb...

Any mammal (for instance) would get totally bored swimming in circles all day, every day... but fish don't' appear to...

They may feel *something*, but I think pain is a condition that is explained more by *why* it's inflicted upon you, and in that case, fish don't know, well, anything....

Have you ever watched the reaction of a dog after someone hits it? Or the reaction of a mouse after getting trapped--but not killed--in one of those spring-operated traps designed to snap its neck or spine? They whimper and squirm. They feel discomfort.

When I was about 10, my dog was hit by a truck, but it did not die immediately. Two of its legs with dislocated, and its lung was punctured by a broken rib. It made several uncomfortable shrieks and cries among other sounds and motions that indicated it was in pain.

Animals feel something, and it sure as hell isn't comfortable. This goes for anything with nerve endings.

Please re-read what I wrote concerning house pets. I was talking about fish for chrissakes...

Alright, but what I said still stands; If fish have nerve endings, then they should be able to feel pain.

Fishes' nerve endings aren't the same as mammals' never endings... Unless you were taught differently in your neuroscience classes...

Jerk.

But regardless of physical pain, aside cognitive thought... What gives us the right to take the life of another species for our own gain? We are obviously the most advanced creatures on earth by means of both emotion and cognitive thought, and we also happen to be the most socially and technologically prosperous(perhaps the only). We have secondary means of receiving food and nutrition. What logical point does it serve to continually kill off other animals for our own use?

Fish do experience pain, according to:

http://www.pisces.demon.co.uk/pain.html

or for a more general treatment of the subject,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain#Pain_and_nociception_in_other_species

Apparently you haven't even read The Bible? There's the start right there!

I'm not interested in reading fiction.

OHHH!!! OHHH!! DISS!!! MAJOR DISS!!!

I own. No, really. My penis is gigantic.

*yawn*

And your penis is tiny.

Animal proteins?

They're called manufactured vitamins, foo'

So do you go to chinese buffets?

Sorry could not resist - I am with you this one.


However, I do accept others views as well. My 15 year old daughter has been a veggie for 4 years now.

So what are your definitions of "animal" and "lover"

There is no way in hell I'd give up eating meat. A good steak is part of my menu at least once a week. Right, wrong, or indifferent...be damned everything else. What can I say. I'm a meathead.

My daughter does not eat meat and she eats all this protein shit. It tastes awful. Of course, she can eat what she wants, but I cannot understand how she can eat that boring, tasteless food all the time.


TIS

Here you go:

Animal: n. beast; living organism which is neither plant nor human.

Lover: n. one who loves; one who is loved; one who is involved in a sexual or romantic relationship with another; fan, devotee, one who is enthusiastic about something.

I eat meat because it tastes good. End of story.

So if someone is a lover of steak does that mean that they are enthusiastically involved in a sexual relationship with their steak?

So then....

.....We can conclude that you will not have sex with a beast (I'm heart broken!)

.....We cannot conclude from your statements above if you will have sex with a dead organism or some sort of plant

Not necessarily, but I don't rule out the possibility. For instance if someone masturbates on their steak before eating it, it could be a sign that they are in sexual relationship with their steak. I would like to go into more detail, alas, I might be actually start thinking and I'd sworn I'd not think about this something that I'm encouraged to think about...

I used to have more faith in your judgment. The only thing that one can conclude from my previous post is that I'm not devoted to living organisms which are neither plant nor human. Therefore it won't be hypocritical if I eat them.

That being said, although that was not clear in that post, I'll not have sex with you, because of entirely different set of reasons.

Hey Hey Hey I am ecstatic that you ever had faith in my judgement

I was simply taking your statement and definitions to develop the conclusions

Yeah, and that's the reason why I'll not have sex with you. You have a way with taking things and twisting them, you giant beast.

You don't like twisting?

Were you ever twisting baby? No, it is his twisting that is a little too much for me.

Well, I just hope my "twisting" isn't a little too little for you.

I'm willing to re-evaluate in future.

It must be tough taking them for a walk.

I tried twisting again like I did last summer
I tried twisting again like I did last year
You remember when things were really humming
So, it's okay - let's twist again like we did last year

Ew, no. I've tried most of the substitutes, and they're all pretty much disgusting. I'll stick to my grilled cheese and Cheerio's, thanks.

I wouldn't want to throw around the term "meat lover," but sure. Why not.

This thread gives me the desire to consider cannibalism...

There's nothing I like better than going out for dinner wearing my mink coat and my leather pants, sitting down at the restaurant and ordering up some foie gras, followed by a big ol' porterhouse steak - rare, please.