Don Corleone and Luca: Scary

I don't have the text with me right now but I believe that after Vito has murdered Fanucci, Clemenza is busting his chops a little bit about the money and Vito says something like "Look I'll pay you back. How much was it again?" and starts counting out the money and smiles at Clemenza and Tessio. They decline the return of the money. The novel reads something (paraphrasing) along the lines of "Vito Corleone was not then aware of the impact his smile had on people. He smiled as if there was a private joke only he got". But obviously that intimidated both Clemenza and Tessio.

Similarly Vito was able to impress or intimidate Luca Brasi, who was famously uncaring about anyone's life, even his own. When explaining this to Michael, Vito said that a Luca's fear was not that he (Luca) would lose his life but that you would be the one to kill him.

Again though what would make a Luca choose to follow (or fear) Vito? I mean Vito got him out of jail but what else could explain the apparently legendary loyalty granted to Vito?
Luca is apparently so extremely loyal to his Don that no one -friend or enemy -would ever believe that Luca would turn.

At the same time the possibility that Luca had turned was evidently enough to give hardcases like Sonny and Clemenza the heebie-jeebies. And despite this legendary loyalty even the Don is nervous around Luca, and doesn't want to meet with him at the wedding, even though presumably he had okayed the invite.

So what did the Don have that could cow men like Clemenza and at least temporarily Luca? I don't think the Don was more personally violent than Luca..

I don't have the book handy, but I think the Vito-Clemenza exchange was about the gun, which Vito couldn't return because he had disposed of it.

I think that Vito's insight into Luca was that Luca suffered from low self-esteem to the point that Luca was essentially suicidal. Vito says that such people go through life starting fights in the hope of being killed. By treating Luca with respect rather than fear, Vito earned Luca's devotion and created a relationship that Luca did not want to see end in his own death.

I'd say the Don wasn't even as personally violent as Clemenza either, but he did have the courage to do what Clemenza and Tessio wouldn't and that was kill Fanucci. I believe that the novel states that after Vito kills Fanucci that Tessio and Clemenza avoided him for several weeks and then came to him in obvious respect. I think at that point the two of them realized that Vito had the foresight and cunning that they might have lacked. I don't think Vito gave the two of them any evidence of his future skills before murdering Fanucci.

Luca is obviously a much more complex character than both Clemenza and Tessio. To be honest, I don't have an explanation for Vito's handling of him at this time because I haven't read the book in awhile and can't even find my copy. I am listening to the audiobook presently so perhaps I can provide some insight in a few days.

Great explanation.

Puzo was vague about why Luca chose to follow Vito after the Filomena affair, except to say that Luca chose to fear Vito. But later, Michael asks Vito why he chose "an animal like that." If memory serves, Vito replied that "some men go through life shouting 'kill me, kill me.' Such men can be useful to you..."

nice thread huh?

it's cool for us to discuss and delve into it but things left unsaid like that in movies and such are a classic, efficient device. how did Vito earn Luca's respect? we don't know and that's the cool thing about it. you can make up your own background.

it's like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction or the russian guy from "Pine Barrens" (Sopranos)

Yeah. It's interesting and maybe as you point out it's better left unexplained. Everyone reacts to Luca as if he's a two legged rabid Cane Corso.

So for Vito to bring him to heel so to speak, Vito had to be even scarier than we know.

I believe, it's something else. Imagine how it feels being Luca. Everybody hates or fears you. And then, when you're really down, somebody treats you like a friend, shows understanding and respect.
Vito made Luca important, he paid him more money than he could earn anywhere else.
Seems that Vito radiated omnipotence. (Even Genco believes in the end, Vito would be able to stop death.) So whatever Luca expected from life, he believed (probably rightfully) he'd get that from Vito.

Vito may have read "How to make friends and influence people".

I've suggested that before:
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=534828

That's a coincidence then. That topic was made years before I came to this board.

Great explanation always i was looking for this type of explanation.

Fixed it for you!

Luca Brasi is one of my favorite characters in the film, more so than in the book. I think the actor Lenny Montana gave the character heart, soul and humanity that was not conveyed in the book. My favorite part in the movie is Luca's fateful encounter with "The Turk," Sollozzo. What fascinates me about the scene and character of Luca Brasi is that his fate is sealed the moment he refuses to shake Sollozzo's hand. Luca will never shake the hand of the man who dares to kill Vito. That is why I like Luca:he would rather die than even contemplate the betrayal of Vito. And its this loyalty that gets him killed. Vito and Luca are old school Sicilians who live by the code of honor. The death of Luca spells the doom of Don Vito Corleone. Death before dishonor, that is the code that binds Luca and Vito.

Luca's fate was sealed anyway.

...and Vito sealed it when he sent him on that ridiculous mission to "make them think that you're not too happy with our family."

Had Vito not done so, I wonder how Sollozzo would have gotten rid of Luca since it seems thathe had to do so.

Vito basically gave Sollozzo the ultimate change to get rid of his biggest and strongest supporter. Maybe there was something about it that we don't know. Maybe Vito used Luca as a pawn as he was becoming disposable? Probably not, but I find it an interesting theory nevertheless.

Both Luca and Vito should have been dismembered alive: one for burning a baby alive, the other for helping to cover it up. What they did really stands out even among all the mafia murders they committed. I know its off-topic, I just can't help it every time I remember those 2.

That's an interesting opinion for someone who is strongly against the mafia; its activities and methods.

Well, I may have been exaggerating, but still... Maybe I just was angry because nobody of the main characters in the novel got any punishment from the law. What bothers me is that there are people in real life who actually like the scumbags. I mean, the book and the movies are interesting and realistic, but the characters (Vito, Luca and Michael especially) are really despicable.

I agree that Luca wasn't a likeable character, and that's an understatement. He got what was coming to him. Vito was punished by his own criminal world in the form of his son getting murdered and himself getting shot at. Michael was punished likewise. It doesn't have to be the law that punishes.

I would have loved more in the movie (maybe Godfather II) about the genesis of this relationship. It's a nice tease in GFI that Luca was this ultimate Grim Reaper, but the only time we see him he gets taken out...

Luca would have had to be gotten rid of, simply because the plan was to always kill Vito; remember the last family who tried had their Don killed by Luca, and Luca went after the Irish guys who shot Vito the last war.

Sollozzo genuinely may have wanted a guy like Luca in his operation, but as Luca says he would never go against the Corleones. If Luca had been left alive and then the hit on Vito happened, Luca would have turned on Sollozzo in a heartbeat (in the novel Sonny says before he finds out about Luca that he was going to sic him on Sollozzo and Tattaglia).

Luca had to be taken out because otherwise he would have been an unleashed hurricane.