I wish more folks had seen it so I could discuss it here. Anyway I really think that the show should have won some Emmys. The finale was ...impressive.
Greatest American television series ever made. I'd love to drop "American," but I haven't seen any non-American television drama series yet. I wouldn't even know what U.K., French, Italian, or Candian series that holds that distinction. Anyone have recommendations?
"There aren't intelligent television shows" is a common complaint. Well, The Wire is an extremely intelligent show that at the same time has humor, wit, and action/thrill value. In other words, it's intelligent entertainment; it's not a damn dissertation or thesis.
I'm surprised this show hasn't taken off on this site. It does delve deeply, and I mean deeply, into American and European organized crime - drug war in Baltimore and the international aspect of smuggling. Secondly, I notice quite a few of Law and Order fans here. I see no reason why those fans wouldn't enjoy the police and legal procedural aspects that is a huge part of The Wire.
Part of the attraction of The Godfather, The Sopranos, and other mob movies is that they grant us access to a world that most of us wouldn't have in a million years. The Wire does the same.
As for the series finale, the only other satisfying and great series final I know of is Six Feet Under's.
Greatest American television series ever made. I'd love to drop "American," but I haven't seen any non-American television drama series yet. I wouldn't even know what U.K., French, Italian, or Candian series that holds that distinction. Anyone have recommendations?
"There aren't intelligent television shows" is a common complaint. Well, The Wire is an extremely intelligent show that at the same time has humor, wit, and action/thrill value. In other words, it's intelligent entertainment; it's not a damn dissertation or thesis.
I'm surprised this show hasn't taken off on this site. It does delve deeply, and I mean deeply, into American and European organized crime - drug war in Baltimore and the international aspect of smuggling. Secondly, I notice quite a few of Law and Order fans here. I see no reason why those fans wouldn't enjoy the police and legal procedural aspects that is a huge part of The Wire.
Part of the attraction of The Godfather, The Sopranos, and other mob movies is that they grant us access to a world that most of us wouldn't have in a million years. The Wire does the same.
As for the series finale, the only other satisfying and great series final I know of is Six Feet Under's.
I couldn't have said it better. It was always a cult hit though. Maybe it will get wider appreciation on DVD. I enjoyed The Sopranos immensely but I enjoyed The Wire even more-thus my signature quote from Wee-Bey..
Yes, it does show gangster activities. It also shows the effects of those activities, how good people and bad people on both sides of the law get caught up in institutions they can't control and make compromises.
It also links together widely disparate criminal groups -some more greedy and vicious than others-some just trying to make a (dishonest) buck. It shows folks from the white importers, for whom drugs are just one business of many, to the interlocking major Black organizations, to the slowly dying waterfront unions, down to the street level thug.
But ultimately The Wire is really about the city of Baltimore-though it could be any large city.
What I like most about it is that it doesn't neatly divide people up as good or bad. It's also got the strongest writing on TV as well as some of the best acting...
It's not the only thing the show is about, but yes, organized crime is maybe 80%-90% of the entire series and even the other 20%-10% is still tied to - in that it affects and is affected by - organized crime.
Lilo and Yogi broke it down concisely.
Trivia: law enforcement in NY said that drug crews in NY were trying to copy what the crews in The Wire were doing.
Another fun fact: Police rank-and-file, FBI agents, and lawyers praise the reality of The Wire.
Just popping in without looking at other posts (due to spoilers), to say I finished season one in a few days. It's very good.
My thoughts:
Warning, Spoiler:
Greggs should have died. Key cops should be as expendable as key villains; the scene where she gets shot is masterfully done, but it won't have any emotional impact for me on a re-watch knowing that she survives (despite the slim probability). Minor niggle, though. While we're on niggles: Freamon getting with Shardene? C'mon!
Looks like Avon is going to be out for at least a while now; liked the slow-mo of him leaving the courtroom - one of my favourite moments of the season was when he made Daniels and McNulty in slow-mo in "The Game" episode.
I'm very reluctant to look at which actors play which characters, because I might come across major spoilers for seasons to come; even IMDb tells you how many episodes each actor is in, and I'd be able to work it out whether they're around for long or not. So, bear with me:
Favourite characters are McNulty, Daniels, Stringer and Bubbles. Also fascinated by any scenes with Rawls, Burrell and Phelan. The actors playing Rawls and Phelan are excellent; as is the guy who plays Stringer. The latter episodes, and the increasing emphasis on corruption at higher levels, are brilliant: in many ways, these big guns are the real baddies of the show. McNulty's outburst to the "empty suits" at the Feds meeting is admirable at the same time as frustrating; Stringer's charismatic enough for me to like him, while the men in suits on the right side of the law are just fucking sleazebags; love the scene wherein Daniels walks out on Burrell and Clay Davis.
I like the constant references to "the game", and the moral and political (the latter determine the former) conflicts that come with it. Since much of the characterisation of the show is developed via and within the workplace and people's careers, there's much to be said about existential dilemma in most of the characters. I love it.
I feel for McNulty when he finds out Rawls is after his badge, but then I feel (perhaps even more) for Bubbles when McNulty gives him money to get back to CI work on the street (if Greggs wasn't incarcerated, would that have happened?). That moment of resignation when McNulty says "You sure?" to Bubbles about giving Greggs's money back. Ya gotta feel for the guy, despite how fucking cool his strut is.
Oh, and you know what I love? That sudden crescendo of the opening title music after each initial scene. Forgive me, but when I first heard the music, I felt it was a tad cheesy; but no: love the bossa nova. Gets you in a great mood.
Pleasantly surprised to see Tim Van Patten directing the season 1 finale, too. Also noticed Omar from "Army of One", the season 3 episode of Sopranos.
Warning, Spoiler:
On directing: also like the casual tracking(/crane) shots throughout the show; there's one in one episode that follows an orange cable from Omar's boy's corpse up into Wallace's place; and the commotion with which "The Hunt" opens, with the camera tracking through all the different characters.
Very De Palma-like.
Also: the ultimate character I love to hate is Levy. Fucking sleazebag.
In a somewhat ironic twist of fate, The Wire actor Christopher Clanton was stabbed on March 23, 2008.
The Wire actor Christopher J. Clanton is recovering in a hospital after he was stabbed in an attack in Baltimore, Maryland, on Sunday. The 22-year-old, who plays Savino Bratton on the hit TV show, suffered a knife wound to his chest and buttocks when a fight broke out at the Overlea Caterers Inc. social hall in the early hours of Sunday. Police were called to the scene and officers were forced to use pepper spray to disperse the 30-strong crowd, according to local newspaper the Baltimore Sun. But Clanton, who was taken to the nearby Hopkins Bayview Medical Center for treatment, claims he was not directly involved in the brawl. He says, "Mayhem broke out. I was trying to get out of the way. I wanted to get past one of the guys that was involved... It escalated from there." Clanton's injuries are not thought to be serious and he is expected to be released on Tuesday.
It's a sad reality in Baltimore. The inner city Middle School picture is very much like Season 4. Remember the beating of the city school teacher that was videotaped a few weeks back? That was in an inner city Baltimore School. Very scary. The WIRE was very reflective of how it really is in Baltimore.My husband is from there and grew up in the Fells Point section in Baltimore and my mother in law retired from City Schools in 2002 and a big factor was the violence in the schools and no one does a damn thing about it.
I love the show as well. I think the first season was just as good as any. I like how they focused on the dealers, the junkies, the cops,inocent victoms, the politics involved. how the drugs are bought, packaged, and sold. everything is top of the line. great show.
This show is an amazing achievement. For sheer narrative pace, momentum, intricacy, everyone interested in creative writing or writing for the screen should watch it. For social relevance alone, I genuinely think it's unsurpassed. As far as police procedurals go, its authenticity is unsurpassed. Gritty, realistic and utterly compelling; watch it also if you're a fan of court cases, political hierarchies, capitalistic institutions and urban structures, the decay of the working classes, chain of command bullshit and the drug runners (sellers, addicts, kingpins, dealers, etc.).
As far as portraits of failures in grand policies and the destructive process(es) of capitalism (degradation of human life, people treated en masse and not individually, the impossibility of chasing a career without some sort of compromise in day-to-day honesty) go, I can't think of anything more devastating or convincing.
Without doubt, the greatest thing I've seen so far this year (that includes films, too; each season here is like a long film, and the series itself constitutes a coherent, 60-hour epic). Inspirational isn't the word.
I fired through seasons 2-5; for those who are thinking of watching the show, do not hesitate. Seasons 1 and 2 are gripping, but it's seasons 3 and 4 that takes it to the highest levels of artistry.
This should definitely be moved to the general Film/TV forum.
i think season 2 was my favorite . you still have the barksdale investigation and then they add the whole thing with the docks and the Greeks and prop Joe. great series i have seasons 1-3 on dvd and 4 & 5 on the dvr
without a doubt one of my all time favorite tv series. i would say my favorite seasons in order would be 2, 1, 3, 5, & 4 . really wish there was a season 6. got to love Bodymore, Murderland
Cucksocker, why'd I press one of those buttons??!!!
Blabblecakes has been trying to get me into this series for weeks, and I've actually been watching -- and enjoying -- it via Netflix. I'm almost through Season 2. I really liked Season 1 in the PJs a little more than Season 2, but it's still pretty damn cool. I look forward to catching up to the latest season eventually.
Blabblecakes has been trying to get me into this series... I'm almost through Season 2. I really liked Season 1 in the PJs a little more than Season 2, but it's still pretty damn cool.
I'm glad you are enjoying it so far, Geoffypuddin'. Like I said before, and I think most here will agree that season two, while very good, is a little bit of a detour. At least in that it strays away from the inner city. But I just finished season three and it's my favorite. I can't wait to start 4 and 5.
By the way, you said something about "catching up to the latest episode" but you know the series has ended right? 5 seasons total. There won't be any more.
I'm glad you are enjoying it so far, Geoffypuddin'. Like I said before, and I think most here will agree that season two, while very good, is a little bit of a detour. At least in that it strays away from the inner city.
I've seen it twice now. Felt the same as you on the first viewing, totally disagreed (with myself) on the second.
I don't think it's a detour, because it's certainly necessary, if Simon and co. want to really paint a portrait of a city. It's not "inner city", sure, but the corruption and the bullshit politics of the core really does affect the periphery, too.
Simon's not skirting around the edges; here we see the slow death of the working class as a result of corruption elsewhere. The stats game, the political compromises, the lack of self-honesty in favour of carreerism; all of that leading to the lack of funding, year after year, at the shipyards; and that lack of funding meaning the guys can't get the canals dredged, which means not enough ships are coming in in order to make a living; then you get guys like Ziggy and Nick turning to drugs for their money, and you get guys like Frank trying to keep things going but getting mixed up in horrible shit because their economic needs make them at the mercy of those in power. Bullshit runs downhill, and those at the bottom of the pile suffer most.
Season four is the greatest thing I've seen this year.
I've seen it twice now. Felt the same as you on the first viewing, totally disagreed (with myself) on the second.
I don't think it's a detour, because it's certainly necessary, if Simon and co. want to really paint a portrait of a city. It's not "inner city", sure, but the corruption and the bullshit politics of the core really does affect the periphery, too.
Simon's not skirting around the edges; here we see the slow death of the working class as a result of corruption elsewhere. The stats game, the political compromises, the lack of self-honesty in favour of carreerism; all of that leading to the lack of funding, year after year, at the shipyards; and that lack of funding meaning the guys can't get the canals dredged, which means not enough ships are coming in in order to make a living; then you get guys like Ziggy and Nick turning to drugs for their money, and you get guys like Frank trying to keep things going but getting mixed up in horrible shit because their economic needs make them at the mercy of those in power. Bullshit runs downhill, and those at the bottom of the pile suffer most.
Great points. I guess it feels like a detour because, for the most part, the scenery, people, attitudes are different. Docks instead of the projects, mostly white union workers instead of black drug dealers, etc... The Wire really is about the city of Baltimore and it makes sense to show the legitimate working class turning to illegal activities as a result of the corruption higher up.
The more I think about it the more I want to revisit season two. This show definitely deserves a second viewing and I'm not even done with it!
It deserves several viewings. Unfortuneately uptil now i have only been able to watch the first 2 series twice. I will get round to the last 3 for another viewing some day.
This year, seeing the end of the Wire and the Sopranos?
To me season two was different because of the scenery but as others mentioned above the actual story and the overarching theme was the same. The guys in the union and on the docks were making some of the same bad decisions for seemingly good reasons as the guys in the projects or on the streets. Everything was connected at some level.
And the Horseface character looked like Clemenza's twin brother..
And the Horseface character looked like Clemenza's twin brother..
SEASON 2 SPOILERS:
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I love how he stole Valcheck's van and had it shipped to every port so the dock workers could take a picture to send back to him. I would start laughing every time Valcheck would sit at his desk and pick up the envelope. His reaction each time was hilarious!
Speaking of Valcheck, him getting punched by his son-in-law (Prez) cracked me up as well. I wasn't expecting that at all!
Anyone notice Horseface from his earlier Sopranos cameo? He's Coach Molinero, Tony's football coach from school, as seen in the season 5 episode, "The Test Dream".
If more people had watched when it was still on we might have gotten another season. The series finale was only seen by 1.1 million viewers. In comparison, the series finale of The Sopranos was seen by 11.9 million viewers.
My favorite scene from season 1 is Wee-Bey negotiating his sentence. Just the way he runs up his body count while acting so nonchalant was great. I love at the very end where is he more upset about them not having potato salad than he is about facing life in prison or death row. (it begins around 3:10)
I like how Wee-Bey "took one for the team" in order to protect the organization. His love for his fishes and his family was a contradictory part of a character who was , at the end of the day, a pretty lethal human being.
Ok. There's a lot of character development, particularly with Cutty, Stringer Bell and Major Colvin. I really liked Season 3. Hope you finish it soon...
Ok. There's a lot of character development, particularly with Cutty, Stringer Bell and Major Colvin.
Carcetti and the whole political side of things as well.
I forget which episode it is exactly, about 6 or 7, where the show suddenly takes off. Season 3 was my favorite until season 4, which I haven't finished but is already my favorite.
I know Geoff made reference to "shorties" in the Gifts thread. That's the kind of stuff we need to talk about here!
I and my colleague (who I introduced to the show) regularly use the word "suction" in the context of our several levels of management and who wields how much influence
JG, in ep 11, Stringer and Avon each saw their actions as strictly business and as strengthening the organization. Do you think that both of them were correct?
What's with people not understanding how to use spoiler tags in this thread? A major season five spoiler has already been ruined for me thanks to this thread, why ruin anything for other people who haven't seen the show?
Just put: *Season # Spoiler* before you post. Please.
JG, in ep 11, Stringer and Avon each saw their actions as strictly business and as strengthening the organization. Do you think that both of them were correct?
I really have to see things more than once to analyze responsibly (I'm a little dense lol). For instance, I'm still not 100% exactly why the "OH, SNAP!!", but don't post that here... But when it comes to the business they've chosen, I can't help but think there's also at least some personal aspects.
Blib: Where? Now I don't wanna read back! haha. But if you PM me with it, I can include the spoiler tags... I'm sure by Season 5 I'll have forgotten anyway!
What's with people not understanding how to use spoiler tags in this thread? A major season five spoiler has already been ruined for me thanks to this thread, why ruin anything for other people who haven't seen the show?
Just put: *Season # Spoiler* before you post. Please.
Which post(er) are you referring to? I didn't post any spoiler material on Season 3..
Okay, I overreacted. But referring to a specific episode (11 of season 3 in your case Lilo) and mentioning anything at all can make someone predict what direction the show is going while leading up to that.
I don't think Lilo (or hopefully I) said anything that'd give anything away... at least nothing specific... How the hell else are we supposed to discuss this??
Season/episode specific spoiler warnings... then say anything you want. If someone is dumb enough to read after the spoiler warning then that's their own fault.
I'm sorry if I'm being a stickler about it, but like I said I had a major spoiler ruined for me because someone here didn't use a spoiler tag, and because I love the show so much I feel strongly about it. I'll stop bugging now.
Yeah, I think you overreacted Blib. A spoiler would be posting clips from the show or discussing the whys and wherefores of specific actions characters took, describing those actions in detail and discussing what happened, what the writer's or actor's intent was and so on.
I didn't do any of that.
Talking very vaguely about unspecified actions that two characters took , without detailing who these characters are in the show or what they do is not a spoiler. From what I wrote all anyone who hasn't seen the show knows that there are two characters named Stringer and Avon. Just like all that anyone who hasn't read Great Expectations knows there are two characters named Pip and Miss Havisham...
I've been lagging on season five. It's good so far, but I don't want to reach the spoiler someone gave away earlier in this thread. I wish I didn't know.
Watched 4 more episodes last night, and tonight hopefully will watch the last 2 of Season 4.
Which leads me to this:
While packing for my trip to Florida, I was looking for a pack of matches to take in my carry-on bag since lighters aren't allowed. Now, I found a pack of matches from RUTH'S CHRIS STEAK HOUSE. Isn't this where "Bunny" Colvin took the kids for a fancy dinner???
Have I been to one? I don't recall having ever been to one, whether in NJ, NY or Baltimore or anywhere else for that matter! If I was there, I sure would like to be reminded of it -- but if I wasn't, then how the hell did I get these matches????? I've never heard of the joint before seeing it featured in The Wire!!
Edit: Hmmm, I wonder if I went to the one in Annapolis??
I really liked it -- I can't decide if I like S3 or S4 better, but those are my two favorite so far. Then S1 then S2 -- and we'll see about S5 when I get to it.
Believe me, if you went to a Ruths Chris, you would remember paying way too much for an overhyped steak that doesn't even have the decency to be served with a baked potato.
The BBC has finally decided tp show the Wire over here now. So something like 7 or 8 years too late the BBC are ridiculously over hyping it and everybody is walking around talking about this "brilliant new show". Somebody at work had the gall to tell me about it and that i should watch it cos it was right up my street??
I watched it years ago fuckwit was the response to that
I started Season 5 last night and watched the first disc (3 eps). So far so good, but we'll have to see how it compares. I'm still sad it's the last season to watch.
I'm re-watching season 3 for the first time. Two eps in. Forgot it was so slow starting (though no less fascinating; its pace is in stark contrast to the last three episodes of season 2).
Finished up Season 5 tonight -- I liked the extended last episode, and the entire season overall. Hmm, now to think about how I'd rank each of the seasons. Will have to think about it. But all in all, thank you especially to Blib for getting me hooked on such a fabulous show, probably the only series that could rival The Sopranos!!
I thought that the last episode did a great job a wrapping up each character. I liked how some of the characters ended up taking the place of others, like how
Click to reveal..
Sydnor is the new McNulty, Dookie is the new Bubbles, and Michael is the new Omar. My favorite moment of the last episode is when Slim Charles shot Cheese and said "that was for Joe" and no one had a problem with it. I also liked how Valcheck became Commissioner (very fitting).
Here's the final montage if anyone wants to see it again. I love how they brought back the season 1 version of the theme song (my favorite season).
I just wanted to bump this thread. Currently Watching season 3. This show is fabulous.
Me too. Season 3, episode 7.
Finished watching it in a few days after that post. Lost lots of sleep over it, but when I got hooked, there was no way out. The best show I've seen, hands down.
In season 5, there are two things that I don't understand which might be sloppy writing or a strange way of character development. Both go in the same direction.
Warnung! Spoiler!
1) Kima Greggs is shocked when she hears from McNulty how he and Freamon manipulate the "homeless murders" to get manpower and equipment to actually do real police work. After one day or so she tells Daniels about it. She soesn't even give McNulty a chance to fix it. After all the things McNulty has done for her and the trust that has been buit between them, I don't find that believable from her. 2) Even more strange, I find the behavior of Herc. First, he gives Marlo's number to Carv to run that drug boss down. A few weeks later, he betrays Carv and tells Levy about the wire on Marlo. I don't see anything causing Herc to change his mind.
In season 5, there are two things that I don't understand which might be sloppy writing or a strange way of character development. Both go in the same direction.
Click to reveal..
1) Kima Greggs is shocked when she hears from McNulty how he and Freamon manipulate the "homeless murders" to get manpower and equipment to actually do real police work. After one day or so she tells Daniels about it. She soesn't even give McNulty a chance to fix it. After all the things McNulty has done for her and the trust that has been buit between them, I don't find that believable from her. 2) Even more strange, I find the behavior of Herc. First, he gives Marlo's number to Carv to run that drug boss down. A few weeks later, he betrays Carv and tells Levy about the wire on Marlo. I don't see anything causing Herc to change his mind.
What do you think?
Answers spoilered below
Click to reveal..
1) Everyone is ethically challenged in different ways. Kima beat Brodie (IIRC) b/c of the asault on a fellow police officer. That aside she has always been by the book and tries to do the right thing by the book. So to make up crimes and lie to other police officers crosses a line for her. She also recognized that it wasn't so much about solving crimes as it was about McNulty's destructive and actually untrue need to prove that he's smarter than everyone else and stick it to the higher-ups.
2) I think that having been (correctly) drummed out of the police force for actions that he and others had done previously to less well connected citizens, Herc's attitude is that he's now looking out for Herc, first and foremost.
Good, what you write about K., I understand. But if it's true what you write about
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Herc, then why does he give Marlo's number to Carv at all?
I'm not sure.
Click to reveal..
There are two ways of looking at it. One -and considering Herc's relatively low intelligence I think this is more likely is that IIRC he was hanging out with Carver and felt bad about how things went down and wanted to help someone who was his best buddy. In addition he missed police work. Working for a notorious drug defense attorney has to be somewhat irritating/humiliating for Herc.
The second and less plausible explanation imo is that Herc is nowhere near as dumb as he appears. He is excellently placed to play both sides against the middle. Both the cops and the defense attorney think he's a mole who will feed them inside information. So he gave the number to Carver to get his renewed loyalty/friendship and then gave the tip to the attorney for the same reason. It may be a while before the cops or the attorney figure out that Herc is using them both.
Also noticed Omar from "Army of One", the season 3 episode of Sopranos.
I knew that was gonna happen
But when it comes to the business they've chosen, I can't help but think there's also at least some personal aspects. 
