THE DARK KNIGHT

Some cirtics have been comparing this film to --- dare I say it---- The Godfather.

I had the privilege to see it two days ago, and it is certainly the best film so far this year, brilliant acting, astounding music, great filming and a nuanced social commentary about good vs. evil that in fact approaches the majesty of FFC's masterpiece. I'll withhold judgment as to whether a comparison to the GF is apt, but I donot hesitate to say that not since GFII has there been a better sequel.

Heath Ledger's performance lived up to all the hype, and his character will go down as one of the greatest in the histryof cinema.

I say to everyone RUN to see this picture.

I Didn't like it. Over hyped in my opinion. My Aussie friend did a good job, But all the hype is misplaced I reckon.

The comparisons are valid. As far as being one of the great modern crime dramas, it clicks on every cylinder imaginable. I simply can't but into words how sublime and satisfying those two and a half hours were. I've loved Batman all my life, and I used to worship Jack's Joker and watch the Burton films non-stop...The Dark Knight obliterated any nostalgia I had towards the earlier films because it's EASILY the best Batman film ever, and it's not even close. Begins was definitely a stepping stone towards greatness but this film executed on every level imaginable. Not once while Heath Ledger was becoming immortal on that screen did I even remember that he was dead or that it was even him on the screen...he BECAME this role and any dream or expectation I had of my favorite character perhaps ever being brought to life again was surpassed and electrified. Ledger gave one of the greatest performances I've ever seen, period.

This film exceeds the hype and is as satisfying as "that" gangster picture, although I don't really see the comparisons. Forget that the source for TDK is a comic book, because it makes no difference. It's majestic and explosive on the level of "that" movie.

Freddie C.'s response
TIS's response
Pizzaboy's response

I usually hate comic book movies and avoid them like the plague. This one looks interesting.

I have the same reaction as Whisper. If so many people like it, there must be something I must have missed. Any first time batman viewers here? I am. I haven't seen/read any of the batman stuff before. So that makes me farthest from the Batman fans like DA.

Well there you go.

I think all those BB.Net/FCM personalities who loved DARK KNIGHT, also liked the earlier BATMAN BEGINS, which is the foundation that DARK KNIGHT was built upon.

To put it another way, imagine seeing THE GODFATHER PART II without seeing the first one. You're missing something in the process.

You are right RRA, I didn't want to watch this first, but got carried away by the hype and couldn't resist the temptation. I guess I myself spoiled my entertainment

I caught the late show last night and I must say it was ok however that is all I can say. Considering how much hype there was surrounding it I was expecting much more. Course I'm willing to bet most of the hype was due to this being Heath's final completed film.

I must admit Heath Ledger did a good job playing the Joker, and he revived his image in my eyes after he did that other piece of sh*t film that I don't dare bring myself to say.

Like most Sequels this one does not match up to the original. Now as for some of those critics comparing this to the Godfather those critics need to have their heads examined by numerous professionals.

I quite enjoyed The Patriot, bad history aside.

Even where the British are shown as Nazis?

You mean Brokeback Mountain, the film about two homosexual cowboys and the "forbidden" relationship they carry; concealed due to the fact that they lived in a world filled with the kind of prejudice that oozes through your post? Did the love scenes make you squirm? Did the thought of lustful sex between two men madly in love make you feel so uncomfortable in your coonskin cap that you had to get up, take a few laps and stretch? Why so serious?

Did you see it?





Why? Now, I would like you to really elaborate on this one. I want to hear some reasons...a solid foundation; because frankly, you're just too much fun.

Ditto!

BTW, this movie has reached IMDB #1 movie of all time.

Have you seen it? If you have not, you really need to shut the fuck up.

As a fan of Batman for my entire life, no material has ever delivered on the character quite like this and thus clicked on every level for me. For me, it's definitely on the level of "that" gangster picture in it's majesty and grand scale. Emotionally, it's as charged for me as "that" gangster picture and I'm putting on the level. K? That cool with you?

Why should anyone shut the fuck up? He's as entitled to his opinion as anyone else. You can disagree with it and state your reasons why you disagree with it, but you have absolutely NO right to tell anyone to shut the fuck up.

It's obvious from your passion for "much, too much fun" that you are as intolerant of differing opinions as those you claim to speak against.

No no no, it's obvious that he has not seen it and has no intention of seeing it and therefore his opinion is nil on everything related to this film.

Before we start ranting and raving about rights (an all-too-easy horse to straddle)...

That's taking him quite literally, to be fair. As literally, perhaps, as you may say DA took The Iceman in the first place, when the latter said critics needed their heads looked at by numerous professionals for putting this on the same platform as The Godfather.

To be fair, though, there's much more chance of The Iceman actually meaning his meaningless sentence literally than DA meaning his. And DA's quick retort to Olivant was justified. "Ditto!" is more or less licking the winnits of shit out of somebody's arse regardless of their taste.

(Refer to this recent thread for more bullshit. And you needn't defend people's right to an opinion; if you do, please encourage alongside it that they validate their opinions with some reasoning, instead of peppering threads with comments they don't in any way back up. There's a reason why DA is "intolerant" of Olivant and The Iceman, and has let svsg and whisper's reserved responses to the film slide.)

Anyway, we really ought not waste our time picking out the logical fallacies of someone who types stuff like this:

Babe, thanks for common sense statements.

But DA, your rantings and hyperbole are characteristic of a peurile and frustrated mind. Still, don't feel lonely. You have those characteristics in common with a few others who post to this Board. You have found some solace in parading around in your Batman costume and imaging your heroic exploits as you madly attack your keyboard. But, take a break. Just return to the bathroom one in awhile and try to finish what you started.

Ad hominem.

Meaningless drivel.

Address the issue DA brought up with you:

No.

Phew, I'm glad I quoted you before you made the conscious decision to add this to your post:

OK... Don Andrew, olivant - cut it out now. If you feel the need to attack each other, take it off the boards.

Stick to the argument at hand - whether or not you liked the movie (and fod God's sake give some reasons to explain "why").

I think that all Capo is trying to say is, Reserve your judgement until after you've seen it. That's hardly an unfair thing to ask. Actually, it makes quite a bit of sense.

No further debate needed.

Now shut the fuck up.

On a lighter note, how about Angeline Jolie as Catwoman??

MEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.............

You too, Mick!!

Yes, me too. I posted that while you were posting yours.

----------------------------

I can't wait to see this film. Nolan is probably my favourite director working in Hollywood.

Did you see it yet, SC?

Ah, you probably went to see MAMMA MIA this weekend and waxed nostalgic about the days when you had hair (the '70s).

I saw this film mainly because I loved what I saw of the previews with Ledger as the Joker. It intrigued me. Now, like I said I am NOT a Batman fan, and most likely won't necessarily go see any other follow-up Batman films, unless it seem appealing. Now Superman, that's another story. Ha ha ha...Don't know why, but I'd more likely see a Superman movie than a Batman. Go figure!!

Anyone notice that tv is showing all the Batmans this week? Not only that, they are showing probably all Ledger's movies as well. I started watching one last night with Ledger, it sounded pretty good, but unfortuantely it came on very late and I couldn't watch it. I forgot the title but he was a Priest and it dealt with the supernatural from what I gathered.

Poor guy would have been walking on air with the reviews his Batman performance is getting. Definitely his true "recognition" as an actor. What a shame.

TIS

I definitely want to see it, but am waiting for the crowds to die down. One of my daughters went to the opening and absolutely loved it. Actually, she still hasn't stopped raving about it. My younger daughter tried to go with some friends on Saturday, but couldn't get in. I'm sure it will be playing for a long time, so I'm hoping to wait a week or so.

Capo, is it playing in the UK?

It comes out here on Friday.

I don't like seeing films in packed screens. I've done my fair share, and much prefer being one of only a few people there. The first screening on Saturday morning might be a good bet for me.

I might want to see it with a crowd on a second viewing, but definitely not on a first. Sometimes it's fun to share the experience.

I believe that's THE ORDER, from Director Brian Helgeland, which Fox took away and re-edited.....and I've never seen it, but people tell me that it's quite terrible. Maybe Fox should let him present his Director's Cut, because his original edit of PAYBACK (released last year) was badass great fun.

TIS, I've noticed "Batmania" on TV as well, for Jetix(aka Toon Disney) has been playing alot more BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES (brilliant smart program from the 1990s) non-stop, which is cool for a fan like me.

I haven't yet seen TDK (believe it or not) but I tell ya, Heath Ledger is probably a lock for a Best Supporting Actor Oscar nomination...and win? Unless some stronger candidates come forward....

Hi RR,

That's it, "The Order". I hadn't heard of it, and saw maybe the first half hour (although nodding out) . It didn't seem bad, but I never really got to see it get off the ground. I might try again if they repeat it.

As far as an Oscar for Heath goes, I heard one critic (or commentator) note that nobody who had passed away had ever received an Oscar? Maybe a "special" award, but he says no oscar. That doesn't seem right, but maybe.

He said however, Peter Finch was one who did but I forgot the circumstances as to why he did and which movie. He also noted that Spencer Tracy was up for an Oscar for "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" (he died during the filming). He noted that Tracy did NOT win but instead his Co-star Kathrine Hepburn won. So, I don't know why one would be not included if the performance is worthy. I think he will be at least nominated though.

TIS

What happened to Finch was, during the Awards Season, when Finch was up for NETWORK, he was in contention for Best Actor, but Robert DeNiro was racking up the hardware for TAXI DRIVER....then Finch died, and the sympathy momentum swung to him.

Finch was excellent in NETWORK, and you can argue he did deserve the Oscar. Then again, DeNiro sort of became a living legend with DRIVER, yeah?

Then don't forget James Dean, who had two Oscar nominations for two different movies in two different years after he died...and lost twice.

I think for Ledger's chance for the Oscar, it'll have to be that unless some 5 other serious contenders come along during the fall/winter movie season, or the hoopla over TDK fades by then....I just don't know.

Of course, Johnny Depp got similar universal praise for being Captain Jack Sparrow in PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN, even from people who hated the movie...his Oscar chances were written off, but Disney got behind that campaign with some hard cash, and boom, Depp got a nod for Best Actor, his first(believe it or not.)

But he lost to Sean Penn for MYSTIC RIVER.

I think the film's come out too early for any Oscars.

Capo,

You mean "too early" in terms of a "time line" set by the academy or "too early" in the sense that many other films will follow and this may be forgoteen (so to speak?) and/or get more competition?



TIS

I think he means the latter, for UNITED 93 came out in April 2005, did great reviews...then got forgottten/swamped by other movies. Same with last year with the brilliant ZODIAC, which got zero noms*.

But to counter Capo's logic, which is traditional wisdom, may I point to SILENCE OF THE LAMBS.

It came out in February 1991, and about 13 months later, it won the Best Picture Oscar.

*=Which was a travesty, methinks.

Just hearing on the news that Bale just got arrested for assault. Still sketchy, but they say his sister and mother turned him in.

According to the report, Christian is not known for a bad temper or anything. I know nothing about him or his personal life. Anyway, just thought I'd let you all know. At first impression, he strikes me as soft spoken and easy going.


TIS

Maybe he and Ledger bought into the nihilism and darkness of the movie too much.

Some reports are now saying it wasn't an actual "assault" but verbal assault, which is actually in the UK law books. But who knows what is going on.

Only thing I know is, THE DARK KNIGHT is a masterpiece, and I can't believe we finally have gotten a fully mythical tale of the Hero, without resorting to the goddman routine action plotting, the first since Milius' excellent CONAN THE BARBARIAN.

They just had a short story on this on MSN, asking if this assault, with Bale more or less turning himself in, was a publicity stunt. The reply from the reporter was, (and I agree) that it was not. This movie was so popular it didn't need something like this to get more publicity. I'm sure sometimes these things are planned, but honestly don't think it's the case here.

That being said, I am glad if it's "only" verbal assault. Not that it's a good thing, but, just the thought of physically attacking your own mother (not to mention sister) is kind of disturbing to me.

TIS

TIS, here is what I wrote at AwardsDaily. Its not a formal review, but a quick blurb:

THE DARK KNIGHT (2008) - ***** out of 5 - Masterpiece

So much to say, so instead I’ll say this: The myth of the goodness and evils of the Hero Cult, we have finally gotten at the movies without resorting into the goddman action plotting heroic dynamics that plagued even BATMAN BEGINS…..the first since Milius’ awesome CONAN THE BARBARIAN.

And its official: Sir Ridley Scott, sorry to tell you this mate, but you’ve just lost your crown as the King of British Film, and Christopher Nolan, as the new sovereign, you hereby are now a MASTER.

A MASTER filmmaker is one who’s cinematic vision is unique, easily identifiable to a film buff, and one worth waiting years for to get a new motion picture from. When a movie has “A _____ Film,” its a goddman trademark, and people will pay simply to see what you’ve brought to show the rest of us.

Congrats Mr. Nolan, and now lets hope this opening weekend’s record has given you the muscle to get Universal to greenlight your next movie THE PRISONER. Bring it on!

Nice review RR. What do ya bet (you probably already know) that there is another Batman project in the works as we speak? Money always talks.


TIS

I've been avoiding everything that has to do with The Dark Knight because I want to see this movie so bad and I don't know when I will get to see it! When I noticed it has a 9.5 on IMDB and is #1 all time I just about told the kids to go beg for money on the street corner because we're going to see this movie now!

Of course there is no way it will stay at #1 all time... It can't possibly be better than The Godfather or dozens of other classic movies right?

Literally right after I posted that it changed to 9.4 on IMDB. So it's already going down.

Can Michael Corleone or Andy Dufresne fly?

No. They can't. I see your point.

I don't think it's better than The Godfather but it is a classic of it's genre in the same way. It's a masterpiece in the same way that Godfather is.

Technically, can Batman? Doesn't he sort of glide?

Either way I'm pretty sure if Michael Corleone or Andy Dufresne jumped off the top of a building they would fall straight down. Very quickly. Batman can glide, so obviously The Dark Knight is a better movie.

I'm with you, Blib. Sound reasoning and all that.

I didn't know he could only glide. Imagine batman jumping off the roof of a skyscraper and trying to reach a window somewhere on the opposite building. If he misses it somehow, he has to to glide all the way down to ground and then climb up to the roof again

It is back to 9.5 as of this posting.

We know Michael Corleone can't fly. Thats why he took the train.

It's inevitable, I assume. But if it becomes a clusterfuck possibly like SPIDER-MAN 3...Mr. Nolan, don't bother.

Yeah, but the question is: Will there be a Robin?

Well I finally saw this movie Monday night. I like some of you weren't that eager to see it for two reasons: (1) I thought BATMAN BEGINS was overhyped (it wasn't a bad film, it just wasn't as great as people made it out to be) and (2) I was tired of hearing about it on a day-by-day basis on the Internet. However, after seeing it, I do have these thoughts (in no particular order):

1) Health Ledger DEFINITELY deserves nothing short of at least an Oscar nomination
2) I would not at all be surprised to see THE DARK KNIGHT garner a Best Picture nomination
3) This is easily the best Batman EVER!
4) This is one of the best, if not the best (too tough to decide) comic book films ever made
5) Go see it in theaters
6) I'd love to see a Joker spin off movie like they're doing with Wolverine and Magneto.
7) I might see it again in theaters

No! Bale already said he wouldn't do it if Robin was part of the storyline. Now in terms of villains, who do you guys wanna see in #3? Personally, I'd like to see The Riddler and Catwoman (sans Halle Berry)

Angelina was born to play Catwoman.

I wouldn't mind seeing her play Catwoman

Too bad its not as good as FANTASTIC FOUR, right?



$200+ million in 5 days....thanks for the advice.



I don't think Heath Ledger will be available.



Ditto!

She certainly breeds like a cat.

Cats adopt foreign babies for publicity?

Cats are attention whores, in case you don't know.

If there is, I hope they give us some explanation about why there is a Robin. Otherwise the existence of Robin will only remind us of Heath Ledger and his role in Brokeback Mountain.

How about Al Pacino as Black Mask?

There will NOT BE A ROBIN. Hell, Bale has said it himself that he won't fucking do a 3rd movie if that shit is being done.

Also, tying homosexuality with pedophiles? How clever.



Thing is, can Pacino play a gangster?

Jake Gylenhall as Robin.

See the irony?

Well said Irishman. Definitely the best Batman movie ever made. It'a about time that they made a movie that showed the REAL Dark, cynical, vigilante side of Batman. The way that The Batman is in the comic books. The reason that he's known as The Dark Knight.

Ledger steals the show. His portrayal of the Joker is totally DEAD ON! He captures the exact characteristics that the comic book Joker has. He's the dark, cynical and homicidal maniac that the Joker is in the comic books.

And the makeup of the Harvey Dent / TWO FACE character is outstanding.

I really enjoyed this movie!

Not only that DC, but the Joker is such a cunning villain. He's always in control, even when it appears he's not. Everything has already been planned, nothing's left to chance.

Since I assume you have me on IGNORE...

How about that great ending monologue? Seriously, that was the icing on the goddman cake for me.

As for Ledger, how about that scene when Joker is on top of a mountain of money, he slides down like Scrooge McDuck, and sets it on fire. What a wonderful visual that defines the Clown Prince of Crime.

Really, a great cast that totally delivered the bacon home besides Ledger, though he got the more flashy memorable part.

I'm going see it again tomorrow.

Don't have you on ignore Ronnie. Not at all.

The parts that you point out were really good parts and good acting on Ledger's part. No question about it.

But I really did love the (now I'm paraphrasing here) "I'm gonna make this pencil dissapear" scene! Brilliant!

And the clapping scene is also a great peice of acting. Typical getting the point across without uttering a word.

Great stuff.

You're right, the pencil scene is CLASSIC.



Ledger WILL get an Oscar nomination at the very least.

My girlfriend and I saw it on opening night. We went kind of early to avoid the long lines that were bound to occur for the later shows.What an OUTSTANDING film. So many great moments (the pencil and "I just want my phone call" scenes pop into my mind instantly.)While Ledger definitely stole the show, the rest of the cast also did an outstanding job. There's really nothing more I can add that hasn't already been said. An instant classic!

XDCX, what is up my friend!?

Here's my short response to the film.

The Dark Knight
Christopher Nolan 2008 | USA
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While Bruce Wayne encourages District Attorney Harvey Dent as the new heroic face Gotham City needs, Batman's role as vigilante guardian comes under threat when a new violent force, the Joker, comes to prominence.
--------------------
Neither as subtle nor as morally ambiguous as it takes itself to be - or, at least, as the hype suggested - this is a film that, when the dust settles (let's be honest), will be known more for being Ledger's last completed performance than for genuine greatness. As the Joker, or Nihilism personified, Ledger makes the most of an unusually thin script, inflecting his contrivedly whogivesafuck dialogue with a facial and bodily commitment that helps distract from the strained hipness of it all. It's a performance to woo the romantics, but the Oscar hype is premature. As for Bale, who is by now used to carrying films on his own, he's more exciting to watch as Bruce Wayne in a Lamborghini than as his titular, masked alter-ego, which is probably in large part due to the silly, gruff voice he suddenly succumbs to when suited and booted, and to the fact that the Batsuit itself is a victim of elaborate over-design. Other factors, as well as these, bring the film close to the campiness it intends to eradicate: the early sequences between Lucius Fox and Bruce Wayne bear a telling familiarity to the recurring, predictable episodes between 007 and Q from the James Bond films; and the moments (few and far between, but present nonetheless) of romantic innuendo and would-be emotional attachment bring it closer still.

But two things save it. Firstly, the production design allows for on-location filming (Chicago substitutes for Gotham), that lends an anonymous, industrial realism to the setting (as opposed to the overwhelming if impressive stylisation of the Burton films). Secondly, and more noticeably, Nolan's ever-reliable feel for narrative pacing and momentum is what makes this a superior comics book adaptation (as with Nolan's two previous films, Lee Smith edits). The opening grips one from the off, with a musical undercurrent running through various viewpoints of a bank robbery, and the film's most exhilarating set-pieces thereafter work in the same way: meaning is established through cross-cutting, in the same way that made the many twists of The Prestige so riveting. His camera moves a lot, too, mostly in swift, smooth circles round static characters or tall, empowered skyscrapers; the former shot either at head-height or from low angles, the latter from the heavens, encompassing a world at once personal and immediate, yet unstable in its quest for justice or morality.

How do you compare it to BATMAN BEGINS?

I'd need to see that again, really.

I'd rank Nolan's films thusly:

1. The Prestige (2006)
2. Memento (2000)
3. Batman Begins (2005)
4. Insomnia (2002)
5. The Dark Knight (2008)
6. Following (1998)

I think.

Such low preference for Following? We can use a different/new thread for this if you want to discuss further.

Why do people have a problem with his "Batman voice"? I think it makes it more real that he actually changes it than to just use his normanl voice.

It makes sense to change your voice when you talk to people that know Bruce and Batman.

I agree, but I guess people just don't like that raspy voice. Not everyone can be Kevin Conroy.

You know it didn't bother me so much, but my daughter kept wondering why his voice was like that. It did sound a little strange, but I just assumed it was because Bruce Wayne was disguising his voice.


TIS

It's a good film. I like it. I just think all the others are better.

A different question: What percentage of the people who see this film will know of it in relation to Christopher Nolan?

I just got back from seeing The Dark Knight. eh... My first reaction was that it is over-hyped and if Heath Ledger were still alive there wouldn't be any mention of Oscar nominations (but people would still think he was a great Joker).

Maybe I'll feel different once the whole experience sinks in a little.

EDIT: As of right now I liked Batman Begins much more.

You crazy.

If you have an IMAX around you, I recommend going to see it there.

It made no difference during the film to me if Ledger was dead or alive. That performance is going to be iconic even if he was alive.

I agree, I did not even know it was heath ledger while I was watching. I liked his role very much and later found out to my surprise that he played the role

Ha ha ha ha!! That's wonderful!!!

Reading some of the posts regarding this movie being over "hyped". I can only speak as a non Batman fan who ONLY saw the movie because I was fascinated by Ledger's performance. The only other Ledger film I've ever seen was "The Patriot" and that's it, so it wasn't him per se'that drew me to this movie but rather the character. The story itself wasn't bad, but the effects and action were great AND Yes,the joker absolutely blew me away. I think he "made" the film. I doubt whether I'll see anymore Batmans though. Yet, I do think that Leger does deserve some kind of recognition. If not an Oscar, then I don't know what? He was excellent though.

Off topic kind of but regarding Christian Bale's arrest. I know nothing about him either, BUT I heard last week that he was not very close to his family, but his mother/sister got mad at him because he wouldn't loan them 200,000 for a business venture. I also heard that in England you can get arrested for "verbal abuse" and he claims that's what this was.... yelling & screaming.
Man, how'd you like to have your personal fights made public? The price they pay.

TIS

"Business venture" = drugs (but lets define the term called dope and you think it mean funky now, no...)

Bring on Batman 3

by Mike Krumboltz

"The Dark Knight" is still on the tip of everyone's tongue. But now, instead of folks breathlessly asking each other if they'd seen it, talk has turned to speculation over Batman's next foe. Who's it gonna be?

iVillage is reporting that the Caped Crusader may take on the Riddler in "Batman 3." According to the rumor mill, Johnny Depp might sign on to play the nefarious super-criminal. But caveat emptor—this could be just as false as the one about Crispin Glover playing the Joker.

Slashfilm notes that there are additional possibilities floating around. For instance, Phillip Seymour Hoffman may play the Penguin or Angelina Jolie could don Catwoman's skin-tight suit. Truth or fiction, fanboys around the world must be having a heart attack at the mere possibility.

Still, the "official" rumor mill is just one of the ways superfans are checking in on the next Batman flick. Many seek the scoop themselves. We've noticed impressive searches on "batman 3 rumors," "dark knight sequel casting rumors," and "batman's next villain."

That last query is very telling. People clearly want to know the answer, but we doubt even the filmmakers have decided. To that end, may we offer the studio execs this humble piece of Search-informed advice: Go with Catwoman. She's far-and-away the most popular baddie and there are already a slew of searches on possible cast members including Jessica Biel, Amy Adams, and, wait for it, Maggie Gyllenhaal. Do fans think Rachel Dawes, Bruce Wayne's one-and-only, was really the Catwoman all along?

Maybe they should quit while they are ahead lest we end up with Sofia Coppola playing Catwoman and George Hamilton playing Lt. Gordon after a Gary Oldman contract dispute.

Funny you say that. I could definitely see George Hamilton on the old Batman series as a cheesy, sun tanned villain.

Knock Sofia's acting ability all you want (I won't argue), but she has become one of the most bankable directors in Hollywood.

No question about Sofia's directorial skills. What is she working on now?

Biel can't act her way out of a paper bag after thrown into the river.

And that fanboy casting of Depp for Riddler? Aint gonna happen. I'm betting $50 invisible bucks on it.

Then again, Catwoman is a good idea. I mean why not for THE CAPED CRUSADER?*

*=$100 says that will be the title for #3.

Maggie isn't the cat woman type.. Maybe Dog Woman. She can act but she's not the looker Cat Woman is.

I still think they should not make another one.

Yeah, Maggie did get hit with the ugly stick.

No love for Maggie? I think she's cute or would you guys rather have seen Mrs. Tom Cruise?

While Maggie is probably the better actress, Katie Holmes is much prettier.

I'll give you that but I don't think Maggie's unattractive. Between her and Katie, Katie's got her beat, but Maggie's no dog either (at least IMO)

But Maggie is a better actress by leaps and bounds.

MAGGIE for the win.

Well, THE DARK KNIGHT is #1 for the fourth straight weekend here in America, edging out the expected new champ in the latest Judd Apatow production in PINEAPPLE EXPRESS.

You all realize that by sometime next weekend, TDK will have made more money than the original STAR WARS did, to become the #2 biggest hit in American theatrical history?

which is the first? Titanic?

What else?

I Still need to see this

IRON MAN star Robert Downey Jr. on THE DARK KNIGHT:

"My whole thing is that that I saw 'The Dark Knight'. I feel like I'm dumb because I feel like I don't get how many things that are so smart. It's like a Ferrari engine of storytelling and script writing and I'm like, 'That's not my idea of what I want to see in a movie.' I loved 'The Prestige' but didn't understand 'The Dark Knight'. Didn't get it, still can't tell you what happened in the movie, what happened to the character and in the end they need him to be a bad guy. I'm like, 'I get it. This is so high brow and so f--king smart, I clearly need a college education to understand this movie.' You know what? F-ck DC comics. That's all I have to say and that's where I'm really coming from."

http://www.moviehole.net/200814729-interview-robert-downey-jr-2

More Batman 3 rumors

My problem with another Batman is replacing the Joker. Ledger did better than I expected even with all the hype.

I don't think they'd replace him. They'd move on to another villain(s): The Riddler, Catwoman, The Penguin, etc.

How can a villain just disappear without any resolution? Batman left him alive and he wasn't captured...

Easy, they could simply write him off with a line of dialogue or just make no reference to him at all. I feel moviegoers would expect their to be no Joker since Ledger's death so I think a lot of people would understand if they wasn't any mention of him or if they simply wrote him off

FWIW

I heard today from my favorite L.A. radio station that per Michael Caine, there will be another Batman. I am not up on Batman nor do I know many of the characters, but Michael Caine said that they were seriously considering Johnny Depp to play the Riddler (one character I kind of know). He's so versatile, I think he'd be perfect. :)They also mentioned another star to be added to the cast, and I can't think of who it was. Nobody I was real familiar with but you guys probably would be. I don't have a link or I'd provide one.

Oh, they aso said it wouldn't be til 2010, so I suppose anything can change by that time.


TIS

I read that too TIS. He basically confirmed the Johnny Depp/Riddler and Philip Seymour Hoffman/Penguin rumor

If It's got Depp I'm going to see it. Depp doesn't do too many bad movies.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman, that was the other guy. What other films was he in? I don't know who that is.



TIS

Not a problem. IMDB is a great tool for answering these types of questions. It's basically an encyclopedia for movies.

DARK KNIGHT Returning To Theaters In January

---

I've been meaning to see it again so this will give me another chance to see it in theaters since it's coming to DVD in December

I was wondering about that. It'll be on my Christmas list.

I still haven't seen it, I will get it on DVD, although, it does sound pretty good

FINALLY saw DK tonight!

As I mentioned on Facebook: Very good movie! The extras disc left a lot to be desired, though (waste of time, for the most part). Ledger was terrific, but Bale was a bit disappointing -- especially his Batman voice. WTF was with that? Overall, tho... very good!

Well duh, you really think they wouldn't leave the good shit out of the SE DVD down the line to strain our credit even more?

It's a racket...and dammit, I'll pay into it myself. We all are fucked by it.

Geoff, what did you think of the ending?

Geoff

I was curious as to your opinion. I never was a Batman fan (still am not) BUT it was the previews of the movie with Ledger that drew me to the theater. He was fantastic and very creepy. Plus I liked the cartoonish looking shots of the ciy and the chase scenes I wondered about Bale's voice too. I have know idea why he spoke like that. It does seem rather strange that nobody picked up on it's "weirdness" while shooting the film.

TIS

I just put it at the top of my Netflix queue. However, I keep forgetting to return the last movie, so I'm not sure how that's going to work if I don't get to the FRIGGING MAILBOX!!

My daughter saw Dark Knight in the theater and absolutely LOVED it.

Gotta run, but I just heard Ledger is nominated for Golden Globe.




TIS

Which was the extent of TDK at the Globes, which surprised quite a few people.

I still haven't read or heard a convincing positive reaction to the film yet. It's politically abhorrent, intellectually vacuous, and determined to invest "seriousness" into would-be fun. It doesn't work at all for me. None of it rings true, literally or allegorically. Take it on the terms it aspires to be taken, and everything pretty much falls flat.

The Dark Knight is overrated and shit. If heath hadn't died it would have been just another movie.

"Oh Heath died, his last role, what a great film the best ever"

Grow a spine you trouts.

Who asked you? Go back to your elitist website full of immature teens

Whispers right, the Dark Knight is overated.

I don't know what publications you read, but it got rave reviews from just about everyone. Ledger's performance imho ranks close to Brando's iconic performance in The Godfather.

So your comparing Batman to Don Corleone?!

Whats the world coming to?

I think most of us here prefer Godfather 3 to Batman!

Yeah, the film dips significantly when he's not onscreen, the same way The Godfather sort of wanes when Brando's absent. But Brando's is a great performance in a fine ensemble; Ledger's the star attraction in a weak pool. And I see no reason why his performance must be put on the same platform as Brando ahead of every other great acting display out there, much less a year after Daniel Day-Lewis's performance in There Will Be Blood - that pretty much obliterates everything around him.

There's more to The Dark Knight than Ledger's performance though. It aspires to social relevance, to political realism, to psychological plausibility; none of which can possibly be achieved in the fictional city of Gotham. In order to achieve any of those three things, you'd have to change the fundamental elements - ie. an urban environment in which the high levels of crime are in flux with all other social and economic factors leading to it; also, a hero who doesn't dress as a bat as a result of violently being orphaned as a boy.

I've read my fair share of critical writing on it; it didn't make Sight & Sound's top ten, but a few contributing critics have it in their personal top five (January issue). Again, their reasons aren't convincing enough for me; they find great enjoyment in the film but either ignore or fail to notice its (reactionary) political ideologies or self-defeating 'artistic' intentions (which arise from commercial needs, not artistic ones). Ebert loves it, of course - never a good sign.

But all the praise amounts to vague buzz-phrases. The film could have been amazingly fun, but it shoots itself in the foot with all the "omg anarchy is evil" bullshit. It's empty, artistic dishonesty.

There's a fuller discussion here, from which much of my opinions on the film stem.

I think TDK is a pretty horrible movie. The movie played out exactly how I thought it would leaving me yawning and not really paying attention to be honest. As for Ledger's performance? It was pretty good but the man was getting paid millions for the role so hopefully he would be alright.

I bought the DVD for my son for Christmas. He saw it three times in the theatre, and it's his favorite movie. He's not usually impressed by films, so I'm looking forward to watching it with him. I haven't seen it.

I'll probably give it to him before Christmas.

I thought it was a very good movie. Ledger makes for the world's coolest villain as The Joker.

I think looking for social and political commentary in this movie is pretty pointless but it entertains like many movies can't.

Didn't you also call MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE 3 "creative"?

Since when is Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, and Michael fucking Caine a weak pool?

Don't take IMDB so seriously.

Also, Heath was terrific, regardless of him dead or not. Considering how weak the Supporting Actor field is this year, he probably could have contended for an Oscar if he hadn't croaked.

Unless you can provide 5 better, more worthy nominees.

While I think there are many times that Oscar winners who have passed on get a sympathy vote and win the statue, I don't see Ledger's performance that way.

Like I said, I was never (ever) a Batman fan, nor can I say I was ever a Ledger fan (not that I disliked him mind you). As a matter of fact beside Batman, the only movie I saw with him was his first with Mel Gibson (can't think of the name of it).

It was the quick shots of him in the previews of the film that drew me to actually go to the theater and pay money to see a Batman movie. He made the film IMHO. I only can say I was not disappointed. I looked forward to every scene he was in.

Of course I am not the movie buff that many of you are nor do I see movies at the theater on a regular basis, BUT as far as I'm concerened Ledger earned AT LEAST a nomination for what I think was an outstanding performance, dead or alive.

TIS

You're thinking of THE PATRIOT.

Also, may I just ask TIS why you don't like Batman so much? From the posts I've read you've seem to emphasize your point that your not nor ever have been a fan of Batman like he's the plague or something. Just curious.

Hi I12

I don't mean to imply that I detest Batman, but rather that I never was into the early tv show nor could I get into any of the movies. I think I saw the very first one (with Michael Keaton), but that was because others wanted to see it. My impulse is to say maybe the premise of Batman, BUT

On the other hand, I love Superman, so I don't think I'm prudish or unimaginative. Can't really put my finger on it, but would venture to say that DK will probably be the last Batman movie I see. Go figure!!


TIS

You gotta admit Jack Nicholson was the draw for that one -- he was great!

Yes! The original was probably the best until BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT came out.

Ok, now it makes more sense. I've always preferred Batman to Superman. I don't know, for me, Superman just seemed like he could never be defeated and where was the fun in that? Batman, is a human being with no superpowers. He uses gadgets, brute strength, and his intelligence to get by.

Okay. A pool of ordinary performances. They all do what is required of them, but that's not much: the script is awful.

It's impossible to transcend its comic book origins. And that's in no way a dent to comic books; but it is an honest claim as to comic books' silliness. If anyone wishes to argue how Batman comics aren't silly, good luck...

I remember several of that film's scenes as being vaguely inventive, yes. And edited to perfection; as an action film, I enjoyed it very much.

But, in short, your original question isn't relevant, to be honest. M:I 3 never aspired to be taken seriously.

No.

Looking for social and political commentary in this movie should be pointless (it's a Batman film, after all), but I'm just approaching the film in the same way the director and producers did. If you want to understand a film as best you can before deciding on its worth, authorial intent can't go ignored.

And everyone who likes the film either do so despite its politics, or because of them.

Vague promotional phrases such as "The Joker is pure evil"; that kind of stuff. You really can't make a psychologically, politically or socially realistic film with that sort of jargon behind it.

And, as I said, you can't ever approach a Batman film seriously; and that goes for the makers as well as the viewers.

The makers have (fatally) approached it in all seriousness. Nolan directed The Prestige; he's far too talented to be wasting time on this franchise (in the way in which he is). Don't be so intellectually or artistically dishonest.

(I'd be interested in how anyone refutes this.)

Capo 3==D

svsg 3========================D

So, svsg has a pencil dick?

BIG pencil.

That doesn't prove anything. A spaghetti string could defeat you both.

Finally got to watching this on Saturday.

I think it lived up to its hype. An awesome show!

I bought this with my Christmas money. Watched it again, the Joker makes this movie.

Absolutely! A great performance. I hope he gets an Oscar nom out of it

Ditto that!! I know many will probably give a "sympathy" vote, but I sincerely think Ledger's performance IS oscar worthy. I hope he wins.



TIS

I watched Dark Knight for the fourth time today, and can't get over how much I enjoy this movie! My cousin was the one who first showed it to me, then I got my parents and friend to watch it. I've never been much into Batman or any of the comic book heroes, but I feel like I could watch this again and again. I have my "classic" favorites when it comes to movies, but not too many new ones stay with me like this one has.

Absolutely, it's the Joker that does it for me...what a memorable character and a great villain. I thought this was only a trend for me with mob movies, but again I find myself rooting for the 'bad guy.'

I know, I watched the Batman TV show with Adam West and had a Batman bike once but I never got into comic books and I love this movie! My only complaint would be how the ending with the Joker just left us hanging (ha-ha).

I've only seen The Dark Knight once, but I got it for Christmas so I hope to watch it very soon.

Batman has come along way. This has to be one of the funniest Batman moments ever:

Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb...

Another thing that annoyed me about The Dark knight was the constant flaunting and talking about knives from the Joker, But he never bloody uses one in the film!!!!

Heaps of scenes he's got the knife out looking like he's gonna cut someone, but nope, never does. Use the bloody knife if you love em so much, Joker!!

Oh and yes, that video above, had me cracking up. What a stupid scene.

"Holy heart failure"?

Haha, yeah, I enjoy his onscreen time so much that, knowing that's the last we see of him is kind of a letdown - but I guess it's supposed to be like that, where we don't know just what ends up happening. I like the line he gives Batman, though: "I think you and I are destined to do this forever."

My little cousin's into Marvel comics, so once I learn all those characters and can impress him with my knowledge, I'll move to DC and figure out the background on these guys. haha All I ever read was Archie Comics, which I loved.

Let me guess Gina, after Archie Comics you probably read the tiny little comic strips in Bazooka Joe bubble gum?

I can't tell if you're being serious or mocking me...

I don't know why I'd never thought to mention Archie Comics here before - I even ordered subscriptions and kept them for the longest as a collection...until I foolishly sold them at a garage sale when I thought I'd outgrown them. Jughead was my favorite character.

That video is hilarious Blib

In all seriousness, that clip is about as serious (and fun!) a Batman film can be. The Burton films are good, too, but their style makes them no more "serious" in tone.

It's just silly fluff that people should enjoy watching. I can't do that with The Dark Knight; nor should I, if I wish to take its makers' intentions seriously.

...but let's see the year out with a toast to inverse snobbery!

I have seriously forgotten each and every scene of Dark Knight. A truly forgettable film.

Ya know what else is forgettable?

After watching DARK KNIGHT again on DVD, I'm convinced that Catwoman will be in the inevitable 3rd Nolan/Bale BATMAN picture. Now I assume everyone and their dead relatives has seen TDK by now, so don't bitch about the spoilers. Just click elsewhere, and don't look below.

I mean think it, Bale lost the only possible love of his life, and now as a wanted-cop killer, he's more effective as a crime-cleaner, but still down in the dumps emotionally. Thus the ole femme fatale dynamics with a Catwoman, new psychopathic freak villain, but can she be something else?

It worked for BATMAN RETURNS, and again here, just with a different twist: Remember BATMAN BEGINS when Bale was going to assassinate his parents' murderer, but was beaten literally to the punch?

Well, what if Bale had succeeded and gotten his revenge? Well, that's Catwoman...someone wronged who loses sight of the big picture, and becomes a brutal vigilante, or the Anti-Batman, which Bale could have become without that ninja training and flexing out his philosophy and shit.

Also, Catwoman is the only major Batman villain of which you can automatically have dynamics set up, as I said earlier. If with Joker its Order vs Chaos, then with Catwoman its Fate vs Free Will, or Redemption vs Inevitable?

Finally watched it last night. While there were enjoyable moments, I was a bit let-down. I found the movie bloated. I think it could have been trimmed down. There were times when it seemed endless. I wanted to like it more than I did, but there were actually certain parts where I dozed off.

I have to agree with others here who found Bale's Batman voice annoying. What the heck was THAT all about? I am a definite Bale fan, but I didn't find him engaging at all. He's the kind of actor that pulls your attention to him when he's on-screen, but not this time. At least I could stand to listen to him when he was Bruce Wayne.

Yes, Heath Ledger was a very good sociopath, but was it really such a "dark and evil role" that it drove him to drug use and accidental suicide???

Well think about it. Wouldn't someone in that whole city recognize eventually how both The Batman and Wayne have a similar voice? Hell this possibility is compounded by advances in technological, specifically the recording kind.

Plus, I think it's supposed to be an inhuman voice, like what kind of a person orders a pizza over the phone with it?

Maybe it did or didn't work for you, but that was the idea.



Why do people keep insisting on that bullshit story? The dude was just your usual druggie who unfortunately overdosed.

Yes, I understand all that. Just because it was different doesn't make that voice any less annoying. And as for "technological advances", it would still match on a voice print, so he just annoyed everyone for no good reason!

That the makers would go to the trouble of adding plausibility to someone's voice when he already dresses up in a bat suit to terrorise baddies late at night is nothing short of hilarious.

Sweetie, I never argued that.

Did you ever comment about that for BATMAN BEGINS?

I mean this complaint isn't exactly new, though there's been more TDK than BB.

I like the Dark Knight, because I watched it as a film and I didn't try to over analyze it for plausibility or directorial intent. Pretty silly, I know.

Ha.

I think it's pretty silly fighting like this over a movie. For goodness sakes, it's not that serious.

That being said, I loved the movie, and will buy it in the future. Heath Ledger was awesome. So was Christian Bale, Aaron Eckhart, etc. I too don't wanna analyze it to death. It is just a reaally good movie. (In my opinion. )

"As a film"? As opposed to what?

That's a meaningless truism, and about as mediocre an argument as I've heard (and I've heard it several times elsewhere, too).

Cue: brief, weak rant on how films are for entertainment purposes, and that anything that finds "deeper meaning" (whatever that means) is watching films for something that they're not supposed to offer.

To paraphrase Marx, The Dark Knight is the opium of the (uneducated) masses.

I suspect this is because the film does not - cannot - hold its own under closer scrutiny.

Question: why do people post questions and analyses over on the Godfather forum, but refuse to look at The Dark Knight in the same way?

I love how quick the Godfather comparisons for this film were killed. And how its fans say, "It's just a ('reaally good') movie", nothing more, nothing less.

I found it hilarious in Batman Begins, though not as objectionable because the overall tone of that film wasn't as insidious or pretentious as The Dark Knight.

In commercial terms (not artistic terms), it makes sense that Begins leads to Knight. First, tame, solid film: success; now let's blow them all away with pseudo-intelligence (and dead actor).

They died down? Says who?

If anything, TDK is more a comic book movie attempt at HEAT, or 3-4 dynamic larger-than-life people in a saga set in one giant ass city.

As for GODFATHER, well I think it was Kevin Smith who called TDK the GF2 of that genre, and I think he's got a good argument for it.

What the fuck is the difference between self-importance and pretentiousness, beyond mere subjectivity?

Me. Look at this thread.

What?

On what grounds, quality alone? Thematic grounds offer nothing in the way of a comparison; aesthetically, they're worlds apart. I can only assume you mean in terms of technical quality, then; I can think of many films that are technically accomplished.

Very few of my problems with The Dark Knight are on formalist grounds.

I don't see how this question relates to any of my own; nor how it may in any way be a defence of The Dark Knight.

Self-importance and pretentious aren't very far away from one another; I think The Dark Knight is pretentious in its self-promotion of "serious psychological drama". You can't make serious psychological drama out of the Batman character. You can't make socially relevant and politically sophisticated drama out of Gotham City, either, for that matter.

We've been through this.

In other words, you don't have an answer.



Why, because you said so?

Oh please continue arguing on my behalf. Put any words in my mouth you see fit to help you argue against yourself.

Also, did you mean opiate of the masses?

All movies probably crack under close scrutiny. They're movies. None are perfect. And like I said, it's not that serious.

What you expect from the same guy who liked M:I 3 and its "vague creativity."

I mean I sorta liked that flick, but WTF does that term mean anyway?

Films are serious if you're passionate about them. You took the time to draw Elvira and Tony Montana... why? You were obviously serious enough about Scarface to take the time to turn them into a drawing (art). How is that different than taking the time to discuss movies (art)?

EXACTLY. It's only as serious as one is willing to take it.

I mean THE GODFATHER, when Brando has his great speech about why the Mob shouldn't deal narcotics. I mean even logic at the time would clearly state how silly that whole scene's idea is, because Mob will do anything for good money, and don't have any sort of ethics.

BUT, we loved that character, loved that movie, loved that mythic universe within it, we take Brando's unheeded advice to heart.

No, I did, and do. I don't see how your question - "what is the difference between self-importance and pretentiousness" - is related to whether or not The Dark Knight is pretentious.

Not because I said so per se, but I have said so, and nobody has argued against it. The only arguments that people have thrown back at me is that this is a film, and is therefore not to be taken seriously. That's as laughable as it is weak. Try and convince me how one can make plausible psychological drama out of the Batman character. Try and convince me Gotham City is a plausible fictional environment that can in someway mirror our own society.

That's what I'm getting at.

And saying, "Why aren't they, because you said so?" is equal to saying, "Why doesn't God exist, because you said so?"

There's no argument there. At all.

Ha, sorry. I was just jumping ahead because it's a tired, old argument that keeps popping up. "It's just a movie, deal with it". If that's the case, if we were to remove th author from any work, we could find enjoyment in pretty much anything; but we'd be ignoring its insidiousness.

It's a clear case of "dumbing down" for the sake of enjoying a movie. That we need to dumb down to enjoy the film is sign enough of its pretentiousness (because if we were to watch it in all seriousness, it'd reveal itself as utter shite).

For the record, I never felt the need to dumb down for the Burton films. I like Batman, a lot; I just don't see the need in making it more "adult" - which, in essence, is an impossibility.

("Why is it an impossibility? Because you said so?" LMFAO.)

Opium, opiate; it's been translated as both. (I don't speak German.)

'Nuff said on that, though. I wouldn't want to get into semantic pedantry.

Well, for me it's different because I am drawing these characters, but I am not getting into heated arguments to the point where I'm telling people to "shut the fuck up". I mean, all that isn't necessary. I do agree that if I love something enough to devote time to watching it constantly and writing stories about it(which I do) then yes, I do find it serious to a degree. But not to the point of cussing at someone or verbally insulting them because they don't agree with what I think about it, you know? It just comes to the point when you say to yourself, is it really worth getting that riled up over a movie, and when you look at the big scheme of things, no it isn't. I can enjoy it and devote my time to it, discuss it, but I don't need to get into fights about it.

Batman bent a gun in the movie. This is totally a serious movie.

haha

omfg, I luv this movie so much, my favorite film of all time now!!!! I watch it like a thousand times!

OMG!!! like, highfive!!