WESTERNS you just watched Discussion Thread

Next week, James Mangold's highly-reviewed 3:10 TO YUMA, a remake of the 1950s movie and starring Russell Crowe and Christian Bale, will open in theatres, and I was inspired.

I created that ACTION thread for us action fans, well what about Westerns? Write up what western pictures you liked or hated, who would win in a Wayne/Eastwood shoot out, whats the last good western?

Hell, use this as an excuse to geek over Sergio Leone's great movies, or John Ford's works, or even something as fun-junk as SILVERADO, whatever. Just ride it into the sunset....

SILVERADO (1985) - ***1/2

I LOVED this movie as a kid, but now grown up I've come to terms with reality. Its a really good generic western.

Writer/Director/Producer Lawrence Kasdan effectively tried to do for the western genre what George Lucas and Steven Spielberg had already done for the space opera and adventure serials. Except instead of wrapping up genre-conventions and cliches into a purified masterpiece like STAR WARS and RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, Kasdan's SILVERADO ends up like TEMPLE OF DOOM: Very open about itself, and openly admitting of being good B-movie material created by A-level talent.

Effectively, Kasdan saw thousands of western episodes on television, hundreds of western movies, and cobbled together a pastiche script of moments we've all seen before. His heroes and villains are recognizable & predictable.

Yet what makes SILVERADO work is that the actors go full-fledged into their conventional genre roles, and have superb organic chemistry with each other. You buy the friendship between the tough badass Scott Glenn and the intelligent-if-unlucky Kevin Kline. You buy the fact that despite being a screwup, you (and the heroes) still care about the wreckless outlaw brother Kevin Costner. Despite the script-convenience, you accept that this trio would accept the sharp-shooting and righteous Danny Glover into their adventure.

This movie practically was the break-out picture for Costner's career. He plays his part with such vigor and earnesty. When we hear the possibility that he died, the feeling we get is that of lamentation. If Costner or anyone else had dropped the ball with such a character, I would have cheered at this news.

Instead, he earns the right for us to care. By the end of the decade, he was one of the biggest stars in Hollywood, and a decade later he would make several historic bombs.

The weakness of SILVERADO is within some of Kasdan's genre-exercises. While Jeff Goldblum is nice while he lasted, that character is useless script fat.* After we have Scott Glenn settle his feud with his enemies in the climax, Kline's duel with his friend-turned-enemy Brian Dennehey is an after-thought, and lacks the suspense or drama that was needed to make the sequence effective.

If anything, a better ending should have been that the law-enforcer would have been spared and flees into the desert. Thus the cop and criminal switch places, for which in the Wild West, there is no difference between them, save for a shiny metal badge.

Yet as the heroes ride itno the sunset, one yells "we'll be back!" I would have been very much up for a sequel to see these 4 again.

*=Though I wonder if Kasdan wrote all that up just to explain why Glover would have a knife in jail.

John Wayne is the Best IMHO. I could watch his movies everyday. A couple of my fav's are:


Walter Brennan who played Stumpy just cracks me up.
John T. Chance: Stumpy!
Stumpy: What?
[Stops playing harmonica]
John T. Chance: They don't need any help with that tune.
Stumpy: What's the matter? Is it getting through to you? Yiuk, yiuk!
[cackles]



James Caan is in this one.
Cole: Now just a minute, son.
Mississippi: I... AM NOT... YOUR SON. My name is Alan Bourdillion Traherne.
Cole: ...Lord Almighty...
Mississippi: Yeah.


Jacob 'Big Jake' McCandles: You can call me Dad, you can call me Father, you can call me Jacob and you can call me Jake. You can call me a dirty old son-of-a-bitch, but if you EVER call me Daddy again, I'll finish this fight.


Eula Goodnight: Just to whom do you think you are talking, Mr. Marshall?
Rooster Cogburn: You is to whom I think I am talking, Ma'am.
Eula Goodnight: It's true that you are larger than me... but only physically.
Rooster Cogburn: In this case, my dear lady, that is enough.
Eula Goodnight: Do you mean to tell me that you are prepared to use brute force?
Rooster Cogburn: That is exactly what I mean to tell you.
Eula Goodnight: [pause] Oh.

I'm glad you started this thread RRA. I've been seeing the commercials for 3:10 to Yuma and have been trying to figure out when it's going to open in theaters. I really want to see it! I'm a big western fan, in fact Unforgiven (1992) is my all time favorite movie.

A western I recently enjoyed was The Proposition (2005) starring Guy Pearce. It takes place in Australia, and is a brutal movie with sudden graphic violence. There really isn't anything pleasant about the movie and I wouldn't recommend it to any casual western fans, but if you enjoyed Unforgiven then you might like this one.

I'm hoping 3:10 to Yuma will be on the same level as the two movies I mentioned. Christian Bale looks like he is going to be really good in that part.

I watched BLAZING SADDLES the other night, does that count?

Why not JG? Actually I think Gene Wilder's character as The Waco Kid could probably take down an entire army of John Waynes and Clint Easwoods.

I also like these 3 movies

Hey Miggy! Months ago I watched the Lonesome Dove TV miniseries on DVD, then the movies - I thought they were great!

Those are great movies Geoffy. The locations they use are simply breath taking.

Broken trail is another really good western! I forgot about that! I haven't seen Open Range, I'll have to rent that one.

Those are some recent movies. The John Wayne ones are older and I like them. But how about High Noon or Red River in B&W? And, of course, The Magnificent Seven - "Generosity. That was my first mistake." Said by who? By who? If you didn't like him in GFIII, you'll love him in TMS!

For my movie money, "Shane" is the pinnacle, followed by "Unforgiven" and "Hombre."

Hombre is another one I've been meaning to see. I read the book it's adapted from, by Elmore Leonard and loved it.

I'm a big fan of westerns. Some of my faves are Clints "Man with no name trilogy"(although technically his character does in fact have a name in each one)Pale Rider, High Plains Drifter, Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid, The Outlaw Josey Wales, Tombstone, Wyatt Earp(yeah most people don't care for it, but I like it)












The above 3 movies are the best westerns ever made IMHO, plus they tower over any John Wayne western.

My old man was a massive Westerns fan,he loved John Wayne,i remember watching all those movies with him as a kid!
Obviously i am a big fan of Clint as well but my favourite western would be "The Wild Bunch".
An absolute classic!

P.S. I liked Lonesome Dove also

I don't hate Kasdan's WYATT EARP. I understand what he was trying, but it just doesn't work.

But surely you put The Magnificent Seven way up there, right?

Why not the better original, SEVEN SAMURAI?

The samurai movie is the western for Japan, yo!

Oh yes of course....
And Shane as well.
I forgot about those 2

Nothing to add here as I haven't watched a Western in a long time, but since some people are naming their favorites or what they consider to be the best Westerns, I'll just mention:

Budd Boetticher's Seven Men From Now
Anthony Mann's Man Of The West

Two of the greatest Westerns ever by two of the greatest directors of Westerns.

Did anyone see 3:10 TO YUMA?

LONESOME DOVE is one of my favorite movies ever. It's also Robert Duvall's favorite role ever.

Other than that I recommend SHANE. If you can get past the annoying little kid then you're in for a treat. You should get REALLY wasted before and during the movie, though - but then again, you should get REALLY wasted before and during all cinematic viewings.

I'm hoping to see it in the theater before it leaves. Have you seen it yet RRA?

BRAVISSIMO!!!

I'm with Mig about John Wayne. His westerns are my favorites, but we (Mig and I) have different favorites.... mine are:

Stagecoach, The Searchers, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, and his trilogy (Rio Grande, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Fort Apache).

Non-Wayne favorite westerns include:

High Noon, Shane, and The Magnificent Seven.

"Stagecoach" could have been set in almost any other time/place. Its a wonderful story of almost all our emotions and Wayne's breakout role.

"The Searchers" showcased Wayne as an actor (surprisingly good) in an action packed drama that rates (IMO) as the best western ever made.

"The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" is a truly wonderful story about unrequited love and has Wayne at his macho best in his steak and potatoes tough guy role.

Oh yeah, review is coming.

You know whats funny? That exploitation-throwback FOUR BROTHERS was practically a remake of SONS OF KATIE ELDER, except instead of cowboys & The Duke, its cars and Marky Mark.

*Ice, in his best "little Joe" voice*


"..He'd never have shot you if you'd seen him!!! He'd never even have cleared the holster, would he, TB/SC?!?!?

JG's got things for you to do!

And Mig wants you!

I know she does!

Come baaaaaaaaaack......."


*Insert Classic Western Ballad Here*

How about "The Big Country" with Charleton Heston and Gregory Peck? A pretty good western for my money.

My mom & dad would be in agreement with you on this one Mignon as they both think John Wayne westerns are the end-all be-all of westerns.


I've seen some of John Waynes films the only one I can handle is Chisum. Other than that forget it, just can't sit through them they're plain/boring

John Wayne was great.

Well that maybe but John Wayne still couldn't hold a candle to Clint Eastwood.

I disagree with that. IMHO I would rater watch John Wayne. Clint's movies don't keep my attention.

I havn't seen many John Wayne films,but i would say he was the man. The "Godfather" of westerns.Clint is great also..

Wyatt Earp and Tombstone.

How dare you disagree with me on this.


But what you say about Clints films not keeping your attention, John Wayne's films have the exact same effect on me.

But if I'm watching a Clint western man I can't keep my eyes off the tv. If I have to leave the room I'll pause the tv or DVD player so I don't miss a thing. Even though I've seen all his westerns more than once.

I agree with Iceman completely about Clint vs. Wayne westerns. When I'm flipping through channels and see a Clint Eastwood western I can't change the channel! John Wayne on the other hand, while I give him credit for a great career, usually helps me fall asleep on the couch.

There is something about Clint Eastwood in a western that just makes me want to be a cowboy in the old west. Unforgiven is my all time favorite movie, but I enjoy all of the westerns I've seen him in.

Hey, pay respect to the Duke.

Or don't, fuck him.

But just know that unlike the Duke, Lee Marvin did serve his country in World War 2 in the Pacific and not be a Draft Deferent.

That's why Marvin is fucking awesome. He's a real tough man's man and he backed it up.

I can count more Eastwood westerns I like to watch compared to say Wayne westerns, but both have their quality works.

Across genres or just westerns?

Across genres.

It's far too good a movie for you to like it, Blibble!

I like a few great movies

There is a Clint movie I will watch from beginning to end. It's not a Western though. Heartbreak Ridge.

Back on topic.

JOE KIDD (1972) - ***

I can't believe that I actually never heard of this movie until weeks back. I mean, a Clint Eastwood western that I had not seen? I read more about it, and the credentials for JOE KIDD are ridiculously potent.

You have Clint in another western where he speaks little, is pretty cynical, and shoots a lot of people. The awesome Robert Duvall, in the same year of THE GODFATHER, is the villain. The director is John Sturges, who shotsuch seminal classics like THE GREAT ESCAPE and the remake THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN. The screenplay is penned by legendary crime/western writer Elmore Leonard.

I mean, with such great talent involved in the same movie, it's got to be good, right?

Anyway, JOE KIDD starts out really good, with Eastwood in jail. He's being arraigned at the courthouse when he is stuck between a rock and a hardplace as Mexican bandits wage war on Duvall the corrupt ranch-owner, who stole their land. Clint shoots a few of them up to save his own ass.

They respond by stealing his horses and beating the crap out of Eastwood's pal. He joins Duvall's vigilante posse to get his property back and kick some ass in retribution. Too bad he finds out too late that Duvall and his mercs are the wrong people to ride off with....

You've seen this movie before. Eastwood deals with some mean gunslingers with his wit and quick reflexes. Duvall is a greedy bastard who'll spill alot of blood to enforce his deed. There is the pretty femme fatale among the bandits that Clint falls for. Their Castro-esque leader (John Saxon) fights for a sympathetic cause, but what a total prick. The climax rains with bullets between Clint and the bad guys.

Hell, the third act where rancher Eastwood ends up escorting an outlaw to a point of destination for $1000 is a plot point recycled from Leonard's own short story "Three-Ten to Yuma," itself the basis for two movies.

I could complain about how movie's second half is too simplified for its own good or that Duvall's character is Clint-fodder, but you know what?

I don't care. JOE KIDD is a solidly entertaining western where for ninety minutes the cast works good, I got my action fix, and I had a good popcorn fun time. It's practically the ERASER of its day.

no country for old men was good, not as enjoyable as Fargo.

I thought about getting Once Upon a Time in the West, but was'nt sure if I would like it. But considering its got Claudia Cardinale in it, it don't matter!!

I say check it out, because its a great Sergio Leone classic masterpiece...but don't expect a shoot-em-up like his Eastwood pictures.

Just watch it, and take in the visuals and Morricone's mesmerizing score....because Once Upon a Time ago In The West.....

Has anyone here seen The Halleljuhah Trail?