Extra Virginity-Olive Oil scandal

For millennia, fresh olive oil has been one of life's necessities-not just as food but also as medicine, a beauty aid, and a vital element of religious ritual. Today's researchers are continuing to confirm the remarkable, life-giving properties of true extra-virgin, and "extra-virgin Italian" has become the highest standard of quality.

But what if this symbol of purity has become deeply corrupt? Starting with an explosive article in The New Yorker, Tom Mueller has become the world's expert on olive oil and olive oil fraud-a story of globalization, deception, and crime in the food industry from ancient times to the present, and a powerful indictment of today's lax protections against fake and even toxic food products in the United States. A rich and deliciously readable narrative, Extra Virginity is also an inspiring account of the artisanal producers, chemical analysts, chefs, and food activists who are defending the extraordinary oils that truly deserve the name "extra-virgin."


interview with author
http://www.eyeonitaly.com/podcast/episod...th-tom-mueller/

Some say if we had olive oil, windex and duct tape we will be happy. I am not one of those.

NO MORE VIRGIN

?????

I thought Windex was the cure-all for Greeks.

They say that about all three.

Thanks G, gotta read this.

Good one, gets!

Thanks,Mark.

No disrespect to Greeks. Every group has a cure all. For Haitians, it's either Cerasee plant or Barbancourt rum.

Nobody should be offended by that, gets. Everybody who gets that reference knows it's from that comedy, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". The old man sprayed Windex on anything that was broke, hurt or ill.

By the way, they are making a sequel due out in March.

http://www.today.com/popculture/nia-vardalos-returns-my-big-fat-greek-wedding-2-see-t55076

Mark,

The original was pretty good. They might have waited too long to do a sequel.


Wanted to ask you guys (and gals) what brand(s) of olive oil does your family use?

Been using olive oil based soap for years now. Castile soap has an olive oil base and I use the Dr Bronner's ones. A "tree hugger" friend of mine was promoting the health benefits of this stuff for years. Last year I got rid of all lotions and just use mixes of either olive oil with an essential oil....or vitamin e oil with an EO.

Gets,

Are any of these soaps the one you use? I have never heard of castile soap but I will definitely look into it, all the chemicals and stuff in the body wash I use (Dove men) is kind of scary.

The brand I use for cooking which I got from my mom is https://californiaoliveranch.com/olive-oil-101/our-olive-oil/

Dude,

Yes.the crazy labels.There are some bootleg brands with similar names but Dr.Bronner makes the better soaps. I made the switch to avoid the chemicals in the soaps I was using also.Might be the placebo effect, but I feel healthier since making the switch from soap, dishwashing liquid, and detergent with all those chemicals.

You can read comments/reviews about the different scent versions that they make, but you can get the sample or small bottles of all the varieties and decide which suits you.There's also an unscented version.

I've also bought handmade castile soap bars.


thanks for the EVOO recommendation.I don't use it cook that often, but when I do, I want to use high quality oil.

I use Filippo Berio Olive Oil.

And I'm an enormous fan of Dr. Bronner's Peppermint soap. I keep a big bottle of it in my shower.

Thanks, Helen.

I keep peppermint, tea tree, and eucalyptus versions around during yard work season.Gets the grime,dust, and pollen off.


Thanks in advance to anybody who recommends an EVOO. Please note in your reply if you are NOT of Italian heritage though. If your nonna wasn't Italian, I'm not reading your post.

I do see the Dr. Bronner at the market so I will pick some up.

Of you don't mind what brands do you use for you dish and detergent.

Maybe I read it wrong do you use Dr. Bronner for shower dish and detergent?

Dude,

I use a combination of Borax, a Dr. Bronner's product called Sal Suds, and home made laundry detergent from local sources.

I won't lie, I do keep bleach around, but try not to use it.
I used to write this stuff off as hippy nonsense, but it's not just the foods we eat that are harming us....also the grooming/cleaning products.

recently the FDA banned chemicals found in anti bacterial soaps for consumer use

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots...bacterial-soaps

I can definitely recommend the Dr.Bronner's soap, but might want to do research about which dish/laundry products work better for you and how hard the water is in your town.

You can try hydrogen peroxide on things that you would normally use chlorine bleach on. It works in a similar fashion but is much less harsh

Thanks Helen,

going to look for higher concentration peroxide because the drug store variety doesn't seem strong enough. My lungs thank you for helping me break the bleach habit.

I got Dr. Bronner lavender castile soap for the shower and eucalyptus bar soap for the sink, both smell nice I have noticed my akin feels different when I rinse off not a bad different just hard to explain, I do like it though.

Also switch my to Tom of Maine for deodorant and noticed I no longer have the irritating red ring my old deodorabt gave me

Dude,
Some people dilute the liquid soap. There's a whole community of DrBronner's users out there with tips,recommendations,etc. If you skin feels dry, might want to see what the Bronner's army says about dilution ratios.

How is the Tom's deodorant? I had the same concerns about the natural deodorants that I first had about the bleach alternatives, that they wouldn't be strong enough.

I use the Arm&Hammer deodorant...which is a halfway step towards using fully natural deodorants. I know you work out, so if the Tom's holds up to an active guy, I think I'm gonna load up during the holiday season sales.

Thanks for suggestions Gets.

Tom's in good the Dove I used before was stronger but it seems to get the job done. If I go straight from work to run or workout then I need to reapply it

For those who use olive oil for the health benefits, you may want to rethink your position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4WD8Bm7s_I

F1,

Thanks. I've read articles promoting both sides of the debate. I watched this video and have to dig deeper. How much olive oil is consumed in study if there are comparisons to cheesecake and burgers which are at least 2-3 ounces?

Gets, I can't answer that, but I think the point of the study is that no oil is healthy, just that some less unhealthy than others. Extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil cause arterial inflammation, but not as much as other oils. It's possible that there is some rare oil that is healthy, an oil that hasn't been subject to as much study, but it's not one of the major oils that are commonly used. From other studies, meat, chicken and even fish cause inflammation too. So does dairy and sugar. That's why the physician who puts out these videos promotes veganism. I recently started veganism and I've noticed some positive results, but I need to give it more time before they show up in lab tests.

A raw vegan diet in my opinion is the beat way to go that being said I don't follow any strict diet regime, I eat a lot of vegan meals but every now and then I will have fish of chicken plus I love cheese. If you can keep up strict good job why did you choose vegan?

Dr. Michael Greger convinced me. He and his team go over thousands of studies every year and when he does a video presentation he shows you the studies. As we get older we get more issues with inflammation along with general health issues. He gives out the details to improve overall health and for specific medical conditions. There's just no arguing with the science.

I'll admit it's not easy for me. I love Chicago-style pizza, I love Carl's Jr (Hardees) and In-N-Out and Wendys and Five Guys burgers. I love bbq steak. Love McDonald's French fries. I love big machaca and chorizo burritos and carne asada tacos. Love lasagna and spaghetti with Italian sausage. I miss all that, but if I want to lose weight and improve my health then I gotta give all that delicious food up. I'm sure it'll be worth it in the end.

I haven't tried this (I'm always down for a good cleanse) but I was looking up a dressing recipe and came across this last night. Different websites have said it is good for inflammation, weight loss, heart health, anti bacterial, anti viral

http://secretrecipesaarthi.blogspot.com/2015/01/heart-blockage-cure-apple-cider-vinegar.html?m=1

You gotta be careful with the apple cider vinegar. Too much -- which isn't a lot -- can possibly cause bone depletion. It's very strong stuff.

There's a calorie-free no-oil brand called Walden Farms. You can find them at health food stores and online. A lot of regular grocery stores carry them too.

I haven't heard that maybe with a diet high in calcium and potassium you can avoid that, ACV has so many benefits it is hard think of giving it up, I use Braggs, I didn't think about the fact that some vegans don't eat honey so maybe it isn't the right recipe to post

I didn't say to give up the ACV, only to keep the doses small. I use it myself.

For what it's worth, I'm only doing veganism for my health. I'm not a fanatic about it who pushes an agenda. After all, if Jesus ate fish, who are we to argue? LOL. So if there's new evidence (hypothetically speaking) that says eating cheesecake and hamburgers is good for you, I'm going to Carl's Junior or In-N-Out and ordering one of each.

Thanks,F1. Good luck with the switch to full vegan. Have you done it gradually or cold turkey ?or rather.....


I cannot dispute what the study in the video shows. I have read about some of the health benefits of using actual EVOO over other oils. I think diet, lifestyle, genetics, and even climate have to be taken into consideration when the consumption of any food is discussed.
As I've mentioned in the food section before, several members of my family have fallen to food related diseases. Majority of them had poor diets where they grew up,but it was countered by the lifestyle,climate,etc. They came to America as adults and within 10 years they develop illnesses, partially because of change in lifestyle and climate but also because of the way food is grown and processed here.
They had poor diets and were on their way to health problems eventually but the process was sped up when they moved here and didn't adapt.


The podcast in the first post here is talking about essentially the "bootlegging" of EVOO....counterfeiting of it. You are right that there is probably no fully safe and beneficial oil but I'd say for cooking purposes real EVOO is one of the better choices.

Extra Virgin Olive Oil does have health benefits when used on salads and veggies.

(WASHINGTON-AFP) - The secret to the Mediterranean diet may be in the salad.
Eating unsaturated fats, like those in olive oil, along with leafy greens and other vegetables creates a certain kind of fatty acid that lowers blood pressure, scientists said.
These nitro fatty acids are formed when consuming spinach, celery and carrots that are filled with nitrates and nitrites, along with avocado, nuts and olive oils that contain healthy fats.
Nitro fatty acids appear to inhibit an enzyme known as soluble epoxide hydrolase, which regulates blood pressure, said the research in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a peer-reviewed US journal.
The study was based on experiments in lab mice, and was funded by the British Heart Foundation.
"The findings of our study help to explain why previous research has shown that a Mediterranean diet supplemented with extra-virgin olive oil or nuts can reduce the incidence of cardiovascular problems like stroke, heart failure and heart attacks," said Philip Eaton, professor of cardiovascular biochemistry at King's College London.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/scie...ssure-1.1829223

I gradually moved into it. Dairy was the last thing to go. I love cheese and cream for the coffee. Now I use unsweetened cashew milk, almond milk or flax milk (none are quite as good since they don't have the thickness of cream). If I go to Starbucks I just use Splenda and pour it into a large cup of ice because they don't have any unsweetened alternatives.

Sorry about your family falling prey to America's diet, but it takes a combination of education and willpower. Junk food is made to taste good, and if it's cheap that's even better. American culture pushes fried foods and desserts. I remember when I was young and watching TV and a commercial for Twinkies or some sugared cereal came on and the actress kept on saying how "wholesome" the product was. I asked myself, "What does wholesome mean?" It was some corporate-created buzzword to make parents think there is some healthy aspect to the garbage they were selling. Anyway, assuming the relatives you wrote about are still around, it's not too late to turn things around. What some of these studies say is that by avoiding the crap and eating healthy the body will repair itself, or at least try to. But some people don't want to. I shared some information with my mother-in-law and she didn't listen; she died from a combination of diabetes and cancer last year.

BTW, it looks like the healthiest oils are (in this order): Algae Oil, Avocado Oil, then Extra Virgin Olive Oil.

That study about olive oil and nitro fatty acids used GENETICALLY MODIFIED MICE, not human subjects, so we don't know it's applicability in humans: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle...y-acids-healthy

A report from earlier this year from UC Davis warns against using any oil: http://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/05/why-you-should-opt-out-of-olive-oil/#gs.ke7j4fo

This article from 2011 also raises concerns: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-larrowe-bergersen/olive-oil-health_b_816011.html

Not Carl's Jr. but some good stuff
http://greatist.com/eat/veggie-burgers-even-meat-eaters-will-love

F1,

Rest in Peace to your Mother In Law.Thanks for the condolences for my family members who are gone.

It's the rare person who can change lifetime eating habits,or any long time habit, so however well intentioned you were with the advice , human nature being what it is it would be a tough sell.

My Family fell,not to junk food, but to heavily processed versions of the food they grew up eating back home. Cheaper, lower quality hormone feed cuts of meat, over processed table salt and spices, frying everything in whichever brand oil that's on sale and there it is, voila.

The consumption of soda WAS a big part though,(which they definitely did NOT drink as much of back home) and probably contributed to some of the diabetes problems.

What I tried to explain to some of them (when they asked) was that although you THINK you're eating the same way everybody in your family did for generations, you are NOT.Your eyes are deceiving you. That's the thinking "oh my grandma ate like this and lived to be 98" or "everybody eats this way" and they think it's normal.

90% of what you ate back home was locally grown and not genetically modified.

AG,

thanks for the link.medical community goes back and forth about EVOO but that link is along the lines of the positive things that have always been said about it.

Dude,
good link. Would you believe that I once ate a Mushroom burger and halfway through I forgot what it was and thought that it was a turkey burger. Think it was at Cheesecake Factory .

Gets and Faithful

Faithful1, --
Soon they will prove that study with the mice. But I agree with you how the avocado should be considered superior to olive oil. The health benefits are astonishing.

The health benefits of consuming cold-pressed EVOO are in the phenols. These phenols drop systolic blood pressure. By consuming cold-pressed EVOO (about three tablespoonfuls) daily with leafy greens which are high in folate, antioxidant vitamins and potassium, a person will be 40% less likely to develop heart disease over and average span of eight years. 30,000 women participated in this study in Italy.

I understand that genetics do play a part in the Italian study. In my own Italian-American family many of the men and women followed the Mediterranean diet and lived until their mid to late nineties. My own Great-Grandma lived one month shy of 98. My Great Aunt 97, Great Uncle 99, Grandma 94 and all her sisters died SAME age SAME week, days apart. (Of course different years) Alfanos have good genes

It is also what you OMIT from your diet, like red meat and saturated fat that can help make a difference.

Not to sidetrack the thread but continuing the non gmo vegan health discssion, I recently got new vitamins. Some people are for vitamins some arent so of you are these are vegan organic non gmo gluten free whole food with no fillers

https://www.gardenoflife.com/content/pro...-mens-multi-40/

I didn't get the Men's 40+ but since I'm guessing most of you are either 40+ or closer to 40 than myself I provided it instead of what o got

In chemistry and nutrition class we learned that there really is no difference in getting your nutrients from vitamins compared to food. But they say if you eat a healthy diet then your body gets all it needs from food. Remember the U.S. fortifies a lot of the foods we eat with vitamins and minerals. Note: Eating fruit and veggies give you more fiber which is the only difference in eating the actual food compared to taking a supplement.

If you take iron, for example, then follow it up with vitamin c because the Vit C helps you absorb iron. Vitamin D inhibits iron absorption so do not take together. The doc told my Dad who was in his 70's at the time to take Elderberry extract, 1000 mcg of B12, and Vitamin D 5000 units daily. For women, they recommend drinking skim milk three times a day to meet their calcium needs. Supplements work also. Vitamin A is the ONLY vitamin that you need to be careful with because you if you take too much you can cause serious problems.

Some of my uncles and cousins have been taking vitamins since their early 20's. And I mean like 10 vitamins a day. They SWEAR that it keeps them healthier. So far so good. They're in their 60's, 70's, and the oldest is 87. The 87 year old only drinks distilled water. I've never heard of doing that but he and all his buddies drink it lol. As a kid, I took a multi vitamin and Vit C daily. We also had to drink freshly squeezed orange juice, skim milk and eat a banana EVERY SINGLE DAY. So far so good.
(Peaches have MORE potassium than bananas out of the peel)

AG,

Good points. The podcast and links hammer home the point of the simpler the method for extracting the EVOO, the better it it for people. All the extra steps greatly reduce the health benefits.

I had a post years ago here about the "Roseto effect" about the remarkable lifespans of people in a close knit Italian community in Roseto,PA . Besides the community ties, what I got from reading the story was that many of the people grew their own food and shunned the so called "American diet".
It all reinforced your points about the importance of what you eat and what you don't eat.

Sounds good, Dude.
I think supplements can be great when you can't eat the way you want to. Gonna look into these vitamins. Sounds like they got rid of the fillers that vitamins are clogged with and that pass right through you.
Would you believe that when I was lifting hardcore, we were so focused on avoiding the garbage that they add to food that we ordered cases of baby food to supplement our diets?
Not a joke post. We read about bodybuilder Gary Strydom doing it, so we all tried it out.

@ AG
Like I said some people are for them some aren't. My nonna turned 96 last month and she attributes it to three things: vitamins, red wine and being a good liar lol. That is part of the reason why I take them.

Having a well balanced diet is key to good health but sometimes it is difficult to get all the nutrients so o take vitamins in an attempt to get the vitamins and minerals I may not get. My diet consists of a lot of raw veggies, low fat food and as little processed food as possible that being said I fail sometimes.

@Gets

Supplements should not replace nutritious food but are good we you can get enough from you food, since by the time the hits your plate the food has lost nutritional value. The baby food is crazy though probably ate a lot to get you caloric intake up.


@F1 or anyone who cares
I made this last night, very good soup the ginger giveaway it an interesting flavor bit it is still good
http://www.eat-yourself-skinny.com/vegan-sweet-potato-and-lentil-soup/

96 Wow I like your Nonna, God bless that woman! Dude, it sounds like you have a very healthy diet. That's great!!

@Gets I used to make my own baby food. Blend sweet potatoes or carrots, then freeze them in ice trays. Defrost and heat a tiny bit.

Dude,

ordered some of the MyKind vitamins.2 month bottle.
Last time I took a multi vitamins was some Centrum years ago.After 2 weeks....I started feeling worse, so I stopped taking them.


AG,
Sweet potato was what bodybuilders were getting in baby food bottles. Your way of making baby food is a good idea. Wish we would have thought of doing that all those years ago. I got tired of cleaning out my blender. I should have just made a bunch and froze it like how you did.

People laugh in my face when I tell them the story, but my skin has never been clearer than when I was doing the baby food thing. I guess legally they couldn't add garbage and junk to baby food the way they do to regular food.


I use to carry around jars of baby food and wheat germ.

@AG
I still take vitamins so maybe not as healthy as I could lol

@Gets
Hopefully you do not have the same response to these.

That soup does look good. I have most of the ingredients, but I think there's always room for a little artistic variation.

FYI, I made a pretty good ramen soup earlier today. Very easy to make and the way I make it, healthy.

1) Fill a 3 quart pot with approx 1 qt of water;
2) Open up one package of ramen noodles and throw away the flavor packet (full of sodium and other bad things), then put it in the pot;
3) Add one bag of sliced peppers and onions (available at the 99 Cent Only Store or Dollar Tree);
4) Season with Mrs. Dash (or equivalent), pepper, Bragg Liquid Aminos (very low sodium alternative for soy sauce), Tapatio or Tabasco hot sauce, curry powder, chili powder, dried vegetable flakes (includes oregano, parsley, carrots, etc);
5) Add handful of washed and sliced mushrooms;
6) Heat on low light, cover and bring to boil

Tasted delicious. Next time I'll add some Tempeh and additional veggies.

Dude,

I'm sure they won't. I've never reacted well to Centrum vitamins. They are full of filler materials.


F1,

Sounds like a good recipe, I especially like the adding of mushrooms. I have never heard of the soy sauce alternative you listed.

You can buy Bragg products at health food stores. I highly recommend them.

This is off the subject but I'm sure you guys won't mind. When I was making my own baby food of mainly carrots and sweet potatoes, I myself was eating them every day. So, for about 6 months that went on. That year I had my annual eye exam. The ophthalmologist said that my eyesight improved. It usually gets worse, as I have been wearing contacts for near sightedness for years. I asked him if he thought the beta carotene Vitamin A had anything to do with it. And he said well, they have never proven it. He didn't want to give me an answer. So I told him Doc, I think I just proved it worked for me.

I'm still blind as a bat so no matter how many veggies I eat, I still need my contacts and glasses But it did improve my eyesight that one year.

AG,

I was reading the story and hoping that you stumbled upon some cure for poor eyesight.

I took a Grape Seed Extract supplement a few years back, and I think it slightly improved my eyesight.

Gets, I wish there was a cure. I found some info on what is recommended:

The National Eye Institute and other vision experts note that a healthy diet is an important factor in eye health. Researchers have found that certain nutrients with antioxidant properties are beneficial. These include carotenoid compounds such as beta-carotene, lutein and zeaxanthin, and vitamins C and E. Zinc and omega-3 fatty acids are also important for eye health.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifest...th/bgp-20095574

I am trying my little experiment again and have been eating carrots, sweet potatoes or leafy greens every single day. Worth a shot.

AG, that sounds like a healthy experiment. Sweet potatoes, kale, spinach, watercress, beets, and black beans and black rice are among the healthiest foods a person can eat.

Of the ingredients for eye health you mentioned, lutein and zeaxanthin are among the two that I most hear about. Bilberry is another.

So far so good with my experiment. It's sweet potato night

WHAT'S WRONG WITH MCDONALDS? EVERYBODY EATS AT MCDONALDS?
PEOPLE WHO EAT AT MCDONALDS LIVE LONGER!

I prefer Carl's Jr. I can make a better house burger at home Remember this video on McDonald's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08c0BXTVpfs&sns=em

Carl's Jr is da bomb. When I'm driving and I see a Carl's I have to move away cuz the urge is so strong. Have a serious weakness for those charbroiled, juicy burgers. Now let's drop the topic of burgers before I'm overwhelmed with the need to make a burger run

Faithful1, Carl's Jr. is pretty much the only fast food place I cannot resist. Did you have to go on a burger run that night? lol

I resisted, AG. Gotta lose some weight by eating healthy, been hitting the gym. Once I've reached a goal I'll take a day off for a burger or a pizza. So many choices for burgers...Five Guys...In N Out...The Habit...Carl's Jr...yummmm...

I just moved to Orange, between Orange Hills and Villa Park, so there's a lot of new choices for pizza. Since I'm a deep dish guy, I've got to put off a few pounds first. Looking forward to those reward days!

Faithful1, I like The Habit too. Never had Five Guys. Is that like Two Guys in Jersey?
You live pretty close to me. Just over the hill and around the corner. There is one place I ABSOLUTELY LOVE over by you. It's on Santiago Blvd. The place is called Rockwell's and let me tell you, they have thee BEST cakes. Chocolate curl cakes they sell with the Venetian cream and strawberries are soooooo GOOD. My mouth is watering just thinking about it They have good food too but I go there for the bakery. Have you ever been there?

I wonder if deep dish pizza is good here, is it? I'm a thin crust pizza lover so I wouldn't know.

Don't worry about those few pounds. Just think of all that good food you'll be missing out on lol

I was in Walmart the other day, and spotted a big (51 oz.) bottle whose label blared, EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL--and it was only $5.45. I looked closer at the label and saw, in small letters above EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL, "sunflower oil and..." The label on the back said, "80% sunflower oil, 20% extra virgin olive oil." What a fraud.

I buy extra virgin olive oil at Trader Joe's. They have a good selection of fine product at reasonable prices.

What a fraud, for sure!! It's a good thing you are a smart shopper and look at the labels. I also buy my olive oil at Trader Joe's. It's not like I can go down to an Italian market down the street like back east. I get the cold-pressed evo. But they didn't have the exact one I usually buy the last time I was in there. So, I had to buy the cold pressed olive oil that also had olives from Spain. Take a look at the bottles. If you do not read it carefully then you can buy something you don't want and get duped.

Comparison.

TB, I buy Bellucci and in smaller quantities since it loses alot of its flavor over time. I'm going to try a California brand one of these days.

Two Guys in Jersey where the food is so good that no one ever complains about it...or else!

Five Guys is a chain that's growing and they have really good burgers. I know there's one on Tustin and Katella in Orange, and others in Fullerton, Tustin, Brea and Huntington Beach. None in Anaheim Hills or Yorba Linda yet.

Haven't been to Rockwell's, but I've passed it by several times. It's in the Ralph's shopping center. I'll have to think about it. I'm not as into sweets as I am into meat, and I've been holding off on the meat.

For Chicago-style pizza, Rance's in Costa Mesa was really good. There's also Tony's Little Italy in Placentia.

Have you been Barolo Italian Cafe on Newport Avenue in Tustin? It was supposed to have been the place where L.A. mob guys hung out in the 1990s or so. Real authentic Italian food.

Lol That joke you made about two guys was pretty funny. Two Guys was a discount store in Jersey. (Two Guys from Harrison) My Dad would always make jokes about that store.

If you're not that into sweets then maybe you should skip Rockwell's.

Some of the food trucks have really good burgers. I wish I could remember the name of the one I liked. I think it was Monster Burger. They'd all park at the high school lot every Thursday to compete.

Red Robin had a tasty burger my girlfriend and I split. It was so delicious that we wished we had ordered our own. Farmer Boys burgers are good. And their fried zucchini are just perfect.

Rance's Pizza-- That's right I keep forgetting to go to Rance's to try it out. I'm hardly ever down in south county.

I don't think I've ever been to Barolo's. We used to go to De Luca's in Whittier back in the 90's.

And so far with my carrot, sweet potato, and olive oil experiment, I notice that my skin looks healthier and feels much smoother. But my eyesight is the same lol

I can talk about food all day long

AG,

that side by side picture you put up is great. I GUARANTEE that countless fights/arguments were caused by that deceptive labeling

wife" why didn't you pick up the stuff I asked for?"

husband "what are you talking about?..I wrote it down...extra virgin olive oil FROM Italy, so there...leave me alone"

F1,

Have you been able to maintain the vegan lifestyle this holiday season? The reason I ask is, had a buddy who was diagnosed with diabetes so whenever we all went over to see him...we'd bring over food that he could eat and eat along with him. Just to show that support.

Now, it's unreasonable to expect people to do that for family holiday meals. So,did you have to fix a special plate at Thanksgiving?

lol Gets. Definitely can start up an argument, that's for sure. The labels are so misleading.

The other day I picked up orange juice. I didn't notice that it said High Pulp. So when I started drinking it I got a mouthful of pulp lol just like Grandma used to make. Nobody wanted to drink it so I just strained it and it's good as new. I put masking tape over the high pulp part and said I bought a new one lmao and everybody's drinking it.

AG,

You gave your family the Pepsi Challenge for Orange Juice.

My wife made me a special plate LOL. There were a couple times I did eat something with meat in it because of circumstances. Going out is hard because without the meat and dairy there's really nothing there. One place I can do is Chipotle. I usually get black bean and brown rice burritos with avocado. Flame Broiler is doable too. (Don't know if they have these in the rest of the country.)

I do get cravings for Carls Jr and In-N-Out sometimes, but despite their awesome flavor, there's a feeling I get after I eat their burgers that isn't good. My skin will feel greasy and will feel sort of run down despite enjoying the flavors. If I go to Subway and get a breakfast flat bread sandwich with egg whites and no cheese I don't get that feeling of being run down.

F1,

The important thing is sticking to it. The occasional meat or dairy isn't a problem because you're not on a diet, you've changed your eating habits for the long term.

There are a handful of Chipotles out here and tons of Tex-Mex types of places. Person can eat very healthy for little money at these places.

Find out if any of the burger joints out there have Mushroom burgers...if prepared well...they taste pretty good.

Gets,

Yes, it's more of a lifestyle. One of the problems with those mushroom burgers is that they may cook them in oil or butter, which defeats the purpose. It has to be vegan style, which is harder to find. There are some vegan places out there, but they're usually way overpriced. If I go to Subway and want it without the bread, they charge $1.75 more! They charge you more money for less food! At least at In-N-Out they charge you less if you skip the bun and eat it protein style. So that's the kind of thing we run into. It's worth it in the long run, but basically you have to prepare your food early.

If you want snack food you can cut up some apples, seedless grapes, celery, broccoli, cauliflower and/or carrots mixed with some nuts and put it in a bowl, but it has to be eaten within a few days before it rots. Dried fruit works too, but a lot of the dried fruit in the markets are sugared, and even on the dried fruit without sugar they are calorie heavy. A lot of trial and error, so maybe I'll come up with something else in the future.

lol Gets.

Faithful1, years ago I used to eat at a place in Fullerton called Skinny Haven. Too bad it closed. Ever eat there? They had very healthy entrées. Have you eaten at Rutabegorz? They have a pretty decent selection for vegetarians. There's a place called Mead's Green Door cafe that caters to vegans. Do you know about that place, it's in Orange.

AG,

I remember Skinny Haven. Haven't heard that name in years. I may have gone there once or twice, but since until recently I lived in the Huntington Beach area I didn't make over there much. I've heard of Rutabegorz, but not eaten there, same with Mead's. A place I really enjoyed was Greenleaf Gourmet Chopshop at the SOCO mall in Costa Mesa. The food and atmosphere were both great. If you're ever out there it's worth a stop.

I was so sorry to see Skinny Haven close. Rutabegorz is a little bland imo. But I haven't been there in about two years so maybe they spiced up their menu a bit. I'll have to try the place in Costa Mesa you mentioned.

Dude,

Just finished the 2 month supply. Definitely a thumbs up.

Gets,

Glad to hear you liked them

I use Berlucci's. I buy a small amount so that I can use it up in a timely manner.

Been a while but Dr. Bronner is always in my house now, I have been using it to make my own body wash, using this recipeso thanks for the recommendation Gets.

In regards to deodorant, I have been using Sams Natural for the last 2 months, which works better than Toms of Maine in regards to lasting scent

@ F1

How is your vegan or vegetarian diet going and how is being a grandfather treating you?

Been strongly thinking about giving up meat and dairy entirely.

Just food for thought for anyone else pondering the idea http://plantbasedonabudget.com/

Thanks for the recipe,Dude.

I know it's an old thread, but Health never sleeps!!!

I recommend for Heart/Circulation Health Black Elderberry Gummies...