hard to believe the season already started. Ive got to read about the additions that were made but your predictions sound about right. In fact...the Spurs would/could have beaten the Warriors last year.
I think that this is the year that Duncan's body wears down and gets injured.Despite them trying to limit his minutes and maybe move him to the 5..Father Time is undefeated and I think he finally catches up to TD.If that happens...Spurs lose in second round.
I hpe NBA clamps down(no pun intended) on the blatant dirty fouls like what the Celtics play did last playoffs to injure Love and cost the Cavs the title.
The Warriors went 37-4 in the first half of the season if they keep it up they may beat or at least equal the Bulls 96 season. Curry has been phenomenal, the team looks lost without him. Curry vs Lebron - https://vine.co/v/iOLI17QnvVL
Anyone following the ESPN NBA 100 of all time? They did a top ten for each position but that didn't interest me much since it was mostly obvious what they'd come up with. They have released 91-100 so far:
100.Shawn Kemp 99.Kevin Love 98.Gail Goodrich 97.James Harden 96.Bobby Jones 95.Marc Gasol 94.Mark Price 93.Lenny Wilkens 92.Nate Thurmond (should be a lot higher) 91.Maurice Cheeks
the alltime sports rankings are usually laughable..as the 100 to 90 nba list you posted from espn is...
would be more interested in the position rankings though..
with the rules changes...basketball between different eras is so different that even position ranks are skewed
Curry is a great player in modern nba....with perimeter friendly rules....but in 80s and 90s....he'd get knocked around and flattened if he drove to the rim.
1.Lebron 2.Bird 3.Dr J 4.Durant 5.Baylor (should still be above Durant) 6.Pippen 7.Hondo 8.Barry 9.Worthy 10.Wilkins
PF:
1.Duncan 2.Malone 3.Dirk 4.Barkley 5.Garnett 6.McHale 7.Pettit (should at least be above McHale for his impact on the game) 8.Hays 9.Pau (seriously?) 10.Rodman
PG: 1.Magic Johnson 2.Oscar Robertson 3.John Stockton 4.Stephen Curry 5.Isiah Thomas 6.Chris Paul 7.Steve Nash 8.Jason Kidd 9.Walt Frazier (below Nash somehow) 10.Bob Cousy
Gary Payton and Walt Frazier are 2 of the top five complete players regardless of position to ever play basketball. So GP not cracking the top 10 is a joke.
PG: 1.Magic Johnson 2.Oscar Robertson 3.John Stockton 4.Stephen Curry 5.Isiah Thomas 6.Chris Paul 7.Steve Nash 8.Jason Kidd 9.Walt Frazier (below Nash somehow) 10.Bob Cousy
Gary Payton and Walt Frazier are 2 of the top five complete players regardless of position to ever play basketball. So GP not cracking the top 10 is a joke.
Agreed. Glad you mentioned Frazier there, most seem to overlook him because Reed won all of the awards.
Funny you mention Clyde Frazier being overlooked. He had one of the alltime great performances in sports history the night the Knicks beat Lakers in game 7 for the ring. 39 points and 19 assists. Overshadowed by the clip of Reed limping out of the lockerroom before the game.
I'm pumped for the NBA playoffs. One of the big reasons is that I am taking my son to his first playoff game on Sunday - Cavs vs. Pistons.
At the start of the season, my prediction was Spurs vs. Cavs in the Finals. Despite the 73 wins by Golden State, I am not backing off that prediction. In fact, my opinion is that the 73 wins puts even more pressure on GS in the playoffs. I could easily been wrong, but I just think the Warriors have expeneded a tremendous amount of mental energy between winning the title last year to getting the 73rd win this year.
Memphis upset the Spurs a few years back in the playoffs, so that's a matchup to watch. Also..Lamarcus' finger is still banged up...and I don't think he has any heart so worth noticing whether he shows up in the playoffs.Not sure if Ginobili is healthy either.
Glad you and your son can catch a home playoff game. If JR Smith and Kevin Love show up, Cavs have a chance in the finals. Tired of seeing Jersey native Smith shrink in big games. Watch out for Detroit though, Stan Van Gundy is an excellent coach, so they may steal a game or two.
Memphis upset the Spurs a few years back in the playoffs, so that's a matchup to watch. Also..Lamarcus' finger is still banged up...and I don't think he has any heart so worth noticing whether he shows up in the playoffs.Not sure if Ginobili is healthy either.
Glad you and your son can catch a home playoff game. If JR Smith and Kevin Love show up, Cavs have a chance in the finals. Tired of seeing Jersey native Smith shrink in big games. Watch out for Detroit though, Stan Van Gundy is an excellent coach, so they may steal a game or two.
I agree this season went by in a blink of an eye. If they could ever figure out the $$, I'd like to see the season shortened to 50-55 games.
I didn't realize that Aldridge was nicked up. He has to be thrilled playing for the best coach now that he is a member of San Antonio.
My biggest wish is that the Cavs stay healthy. Love's injury last year really hurt them from a depth perspective. Many here forget that Kyrie sat out much of the Atlanta series & was hobbled in the Chicago series too. So those two voids were a huge help to GS in the finals. Hope GS gets some reciprocation this year.
GS getting major reciprocation,Goombah. Steph Curry's ankles...literally his Achilles Heel , hahahaha
How did your son enjoy the game? How were the seats?
I like the length of the regular basketball season. I was upset when they expanded the first round of playoffs to best of 7. I liked the best of 5 opening round, really forced teams to transition quickly into playoff mode or they could easily lose a short series. Four full rounds is too much basketball.
Opening night is tonight Cavs vs. Bulls. The Warriors have their ring ceremony. What are your predictions for the season?
Eastern Conference Finals: Cavs over Bulls Western Conference Finals: Spurs over Warriors Finals: Cavs over Spurs MVP: Anthony Davis
Wow, these were some bad predictions! Bulls didn't even make the playoffs and Anthony Davis was sidelined most of the year. Hoping my Finals prediction comes true.
We had a great time getthesenets. The Cavs organization does a great job distributing stuff for the fans that any kid would appreciate: a towel to wave, a playoff t-shirt, and a wristband that lit up at various points in the game.
I have a sneaking suspicion Steph Curry is playing possum. I think his ankle is not as bad as GS is portraying it and that they're simply giving him the rest he didn't get in the push for 73. It's a sad commentary that Houston can be beat so handily by GS without Curry playing.
Curry is snakebitten. He slipped on a wetspot on the court not one second after a Rocket slipped and slid in exact spot.
Curry has been fragile other than last season. The same with Chris Paul, who broke his hand last night. That will seriously derail the Clippers chances of upsetting GS while Curry is out.
those are tough breaks but nobody feels sorry for teams with injuries....2/5 of the starting lineup for Cavs missed most of the Finals and Bron almost single handedly carried them to the ring. btw, Cavs play Celtics in next round....is the thug who broke Love's shoulder still on the roster?
those are tough breaks but nobody feels sorry for teams with injuries....2/5 of the starting lineup for Cavs missed most of the Finals and Bron almost single handedly carried them to the ring. btw, Cavs play Celtics in next round....is the thug who broke Love's shoulder still on the roster?
I don't have an ounce of sympathy for GS. While I respect Curry as a shooter, I dislike that nobody plays him physical. He's small and should be knocked down a few times. Hard.
Kelly Olynk is the guy who took out Love last year. Ironically he has missed recent games with a shoulder injury. I think Atlanta will advance past Boston, but neither will pose much of a threat. I'm thinking a Cavs-Heat Conf Finals will be a good matchup.
and you're right about Curry. Modern NBA has rules which promote perimeter play and players.
Not sure how old you Getthesenets, but if you watched the 80s/90s NBA teams like the Celtics & Lakers, later the Bulls & Pistons, would have destroyed Curry. Imagine a Rick Mahorn elbow to Curry, or Robert Parrish making Curry wish he never drove the lane.
don't even have to rewind that far back....the Oakley/Mason/Derek Harper Knicks of the mid 90s would have found a way to knock him around.
The no-handcheck rule is basically the Derek Harper rule..as he'd use that all the time to push offensive player out of his sweet spot.
I still think Curry is a phenomenal talent and the Warriors system and roster are great. I think Curry would be an all star scorer in any era but that he wouldn't have the ability to absorb the punishment of earlier eras of NBA and go deep in playoffs.
I was a Celtics fan(during the playoffs) in the 1980s..subconsciously because KC Jones looked exactly like my dad, so I remember that era VERY well.
When you look at the slightly built high scoring perimeter players of 80s...like Alex English or George Gervin....you see that Curry could have been prolific scorer too, but the rough stuff in the playoffs would have neutralized him.
I think Durant benefits from playing in kinder gentler NBA too.
Well put about Curry's talent. It would translate to any era. I just think he would've been smacked around a lot more 20 years ago. I'm not a fan of the current players hugging each other and all being so friendly. I loved the fierce rivalries between the Lakers/Celtics, Pistons/Bulls, and Sixers/Celtics. Do you remember Tree Rollins biting Danny Ainge?
You & I would have been sports enemies in the 80s. My favorite player was Dr. J. Other than 1983, Boston usually had the 76ers number. I think 1983 was the last year that the NBA Finals were shown on a delay. Hard to imagine now.
Thanks for bringing up Philly/Boston rivalry..often overshadowed by the rivalries that came later but as nasty and heated as ANY sports rivalry. True story, I went on a school trip back in the day out of state....I had on the old school 6 pack basketball t shirt with the celtics inside the pack...EVERY single person from philly who was there approached me almost on some bloods/crips stuff like "why do you have that shirt on?"
I rooted for the Nets during the reg. season and the Celtics once the playoffs started.
NBA has come a LONG way from the tape delay era, and the perimeter friendly rules are along the lines of making the game more fan friendly and exciting. I respect it, but like you pointed out, I get upset when reporters compare Steph to past greats. Jordan won those rings going through the bad boys and then the Riley coached Knicks. The things that happened in those series would draw half season suspensions today. hahahaaaha
Just seeing this now. To be honest, at the beginning of the series, I thought it would go six games. I felt like Atlanta gave its best shot on Friday night and still came up short. Cleveland played sloppy for much of Sunday, but still eeked out a win.
The Toronto-Miami series just got more interesting with each team hit by the injury bug.
Atlanta has same problem this year as last....no legit go-to guy.
The Channing Frye move is gonna pay off for Cavs in next two rounds...makes them more versatile and they don't have to live and die by whether JR Smith is knocking down shots.
The Cavs bench is much better this year than last season. Even though he's been hampered much of the season, Mo Williams is an improvement over Mike Miller at guard. And Richard Jefferson is an enormous upgrade over Shawn Marion. Frye took the roster spot of Varaejo and is contributing in a big way.
J.R. Smith is most effective when he is the 3rd or 4th option. When the Cavs were forced to have J.R. be the #2 scorer in the Finals, it was a disaster.
Not sure what it says about GS that they needed Curry to score 40 against Portland. Of the teams remaining in the playoffs, Portland is by far the worst.
those(portland) guys came to play last night....and Shawn Livingston got ejected (officiating this year is just as bad as last year) SL is super frail.....if you hit him his body buckles...unlike Lebron who absorbs hits without budging. Anyway...SL gets hit across the head while he's shooting a layup...he weighs maybe 180 at 6'7" so of course his head jerks back. More games equals more work for the refs so ref was officiating the game in favor of a longer series.
The Cavs bench is much better this year than last season. Even though he's been hampered much of the season, Moe Williams is an improvement over Mike Miller at guard. And Richard Jefferson is an enormous upgrade over Shawn Marion. Frye took the roster spot of Varaejo and is contributing in a big way.
J.R. Smith is most effective when he is the 3rd or 4th option. When the Cavs were forced to have J.R. be the #2 scorer in the Finals, it was a disaster.
Agree....except for RJ....dude played for the Nets ....superathletic guy (in his youth) but extremely limited with NO heart. When motivated, he can be a decent defender though
The Cavs bench is much better this year than last season. Even though he's been hampered much of the season, Moe Williams is an improvement over Mike Miller at guard. And Richard Jefferson is an enormous upgrade over Shawn Marion. Frye took the roster spot of Varaejo and is contributing in a big way.
J.R. Smith is most effective when he is the 3rd or 4th option. When the Cavs were forced to have J.R. be the #2 scorer in the Finals, it was a disaster.
Agree....except for RJ....dude played for the Nets ....superathletic guy (in his youth) but extremely limited with NO heart. When motivated, he can be a decent defender though
Is Mo Williams hurt?
Jefferson knows his role here. Why I said an enormous upgrade over Marion is the RJ is playing well enough to allow LeBron to get some rest. Marion was running on fumes last year and was very ineffective.
Mo Williams has been battling a knee problem since December. He sits out for long stretches of games and then comes back for a couple. But he filled in at the beginning of the season when Kyrie was recovering. If he can get healthy, he's an effective spot scorer off the bench. Dellavedova is better defensively than Mo, but Delly is not much on offense.
Who do you think gives Golden State more matchup problems in the Western Conf Finals? I think Pop's coaching is a huge advantage, but Westbrook will make Curry work way harder than he has so far.
good points. I haven't watched much of the Cavs during regular season but what you said made sense. If Lebron sits...offense runs through Kyrie and RJ being out there doesn't hurt the team as much as on-last-legs Marion.
Spurs are a bigger threat to Warriors. Pop and the Spurs are like the Patriots(without the cheating)...great coach, versatile players, and the big 3 have proven to be clutch players. Aldridge will FEAST on the Warriors big men(for first three quarters...then he will vanish in 4th).Problem for the Spurs is that big three are on THEIR last legs...and KL and LA have not proven to make clutch plays down the stretch.
OKC will be the more exciting matchup but they don't run plays down the stretch..Westbrook and Durant just perform magic .Plus I think GSW can hide Steph on defense...the other OKC guards are scared and don't want to shoot...so you can put Iggy,SL on Westbrook and hope to wear him down that way. OKC just doesn't play good basketball. They win despite that....but often blow games because of it.
I love your insight, Getthesenets. You are very knowledgable.
The Patriots comparison is very interesting. Part of why I asked the question has been, as you pointed out, the poor play of Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. But Leondard and Aldridge are carrying the team now. I have similar concerns about OKC that they are only Durant & Westbrook. No team should have to rely on Dion Waiters, which is why I think LeBron & Kyrie were thrilled to get rid of him last season.
I heard a very interesting point on the radio last night coming home from work. If the Spurs do advance, look for Popovich to be lobbying the league and its officials to watch for all of the illegal screens that Draymond Green sets. Much like the quick illegal picks the Patriots have been running for years...
Thanks Goombah,..just bouncing my thoughts against your great insight.
Wait...Dion Waiters played for the Cavs..last year? Add him to list of Boobie Gibson,Mario Chalmers,etc...marginal talents who will NEVER see a double team or even honest defense because they've played with Lebron and still cannot be trusted to hit wide open shots.
Popovich and Spurs are the greatest modern sports franchise..period. The point about him lobbying for calls early does make sense. Draymond always sets moving screens..so does Bogut. Pop is well respected so he will be able to influence the refs. Draymond is a hot head and the refs have it in for him,SL, and the Warriors....so I see more bad calls against them as playoffs progress.
Yes Waiters was drafted year Cavs drafted Tristan Thompson. He wore out his welcome within 3 months and was in 3 way deal when Cavs acquired Shump & JR Smith. Great deal for Cavs.
Spurs might not make it out of OKC tonight. This would be a huge upset given how good the Spurs looked this season.
Don't feel too bad, Getthesenets. I had the Spurs going to the Finals when the seasno began. And I'm sure many of the so-called experts did not have San Antonio losing to OKC. What's stunning to me is that the Spurs lost one game at home all season and then lost two in this series on their home floor. Then throw in how easily the Spurs won Game 1 of this series.
Do you see Popovich retiring any time soon? I wonder if both he and Belichick will decide to leave once Brady & Duncan are done playing. Both coaches are forever linked to these two legends and it seems tough to imagine them coaching without their stars.
Yeah, Goombah..Spurs are almost invincible at home..and then a switch goes off and they lose home playoff games. And for all of the Spurs consistency over the years....this was their best record ever....????
Weird stuff.
Never thought about Pop retiring. I think though both he and Belichick are tied to their one in a million star players, I think it bothers Bill to be so linked with Brady and rings. Remember, he failed as a coach in Cleveland...and until the Jets knocked out Drew Bledsoe....he was on his way to same results with the Patriots. :)I see Bill coaching after Brady leaves and trying to get one ring without Tom....just to prove that he could do it.
Speaking of replacements....If the Spurs thought that Aldridge was Duncan 2.0...they were wrong.Duncan has heart and made a career of showing up big time when his team needed him most. Before Duncan..spurs would have great records and flame out in playoffs because the Admiral had NO heart. Aldridge is not a big time player....he spent his career playing out of the spotlight with no pressure on him.
I would disagree with labeling Belichick as a failure in Cleveland. He took over a 3-13 team, cut a fan favorite QB (Bernie Kosar), and won a playoff game in 1994 over Parcells. The Browns were poised to have a great season in '95 and then Modell announced the team was moving halfway through the season.
I do remember David Robinson's critics labeling him as soft. And until Duncan arrived, the Spurs always flamed out in the playoffs. Alridge may turn out similar.
Nice win by OKC in Game 1 last night. GS will definitely win Game 2, so it will be up to OKC to keep the homecourt advantage that they seized.
I defer to your knowledge about the Browns. I forgot that Belichick was there during that entire uprooting the franchise mess. I just looked at his coaching record there and drew a conclusion.
The admiral was my favorite player of that era...strength,speed,agility...perhaps the greatest athlete to ever play center. Smart, decent family man...on his way to being one of the greatest centers ever....but NO heart...I'm convinced that he never recovered from the time Olajuwon demolished him in the playoffs.
David Robinson and Navy beat my hometown Cinderella team, Cleveland State, in the 1986 NCAA tourney. Navy edged out CSU in the Sweet 16 with a 1 point victory. The highlight of the run was #12 CSU upending #5 Bobby Knight's Indiana team. A kid on our school bus had a mini portable TV and we saw the end of it.
If it were not for Michael Jordan, I think the NBA Finals of the 1990s would have been dominated by Ewing vs. Olajuwon.
That's one of those 10 point plays, box score will say it was 3 points(basket and foul shot)...but it deflated the Raptors to the tune of 10 points.
Has Lebron regained some of his athleticism? That play was from his his early career repertoire. From back when he'd throw pinpoint passes through traffic only to have Carlos Boozer bobble them.
That's one of those 10 point plays, box score will say it was 3 points(basket and foul shot)...but it deflated the Raptors to the tune of 10 points.
Has Lebron regained some of his athleticism? That play was from his his early career repertoire. From back when he'd throw pinpoint passes through traffic only to have Carlos Boozer bobble them.
Agree 100%. Even though that play happened in the 2nd quarter, it essentially ended the game. The Raptors just played out the string the rest of the game.
I'm cautiously optimistic and it's only one game. But Toronto looked exhausted last night. Too many easy, close shots for the Cavs. Toronto kept Cleveland off the 3 point line, but traded that for a ton of dunks and layups. I do expect Toronto to look better once the series shifts to their homecourt. But it may not be enough to keep this series past five games.
LeBron is as fresh now as I've ever seen him. He has logged significantly less playoff minutes this year and does not have to carry his team. I think LeBron's back was really a problem last year and it impacted all parts of his game. But LeBron looks like he's 25 right now and his confidence in his teammates is very evident.
What's your honest take on coach Tyronn Lue*? Or is that a fair question since they haven't been challenged in the playoffs...yet?
I ask because, he doesn't have the cache of an established coach, but I thought he should have been lobbying for closer officiating of the rough stuff after game 1. Refs have been terrible this playoffs, and the parts that I watched...Raptors players were doing fake tough guy tactics. I respect hard playoff fouls and the no layup rule but I saw somebody knock Lebron in the head...keystone cop refs had a huddle and ruled it a regular foul.
*If Coach Lue wins a ring, Iverson stepping over him in the Finals will be the SECOND thing people think of when they see his face.
I'll be the first one to admit that I was not in favor of firing Blatt. It's not a criticism of Lue, but not an endorsement of Blatt either. I thought - and still do - it was a move to appease whiny superstars. And at the time, I thought it was just convenient for the players to place the blame for uneven play on Blatt. I think Blatt was good for the team he was hired to coach - before LeBron returned. He took a team to the Finals & then had a 30-11 record. But for many reasons, Blatt never had the respect of his team.
IMHO, the NBA - more so than MLB & the NFL - is less reliant on a coach. For examples, see GS from the past two years, Miami, & OKC as prime examples.
Having said all that, Lue HAS made a positive impact. It took awhile, but he has found two good rotation sets. The players respect him as an ex-player. Lue stood up to LeBron & challenged Love. He has not panicked when the Cavs have been down & hasn't over-used LeBron like every other coach LeBron has had. Lue came highly recommended by Doc Rivers, so he has the possibility of being a very good coach. And possibly putting the Iverson image forever in the rearview mirror.
Goombah, I also thought it was a weird move to fire a coach who was just in the finals and who had best record in conference.
Last year, despite the injuries..Bron almost willed his team to victory....but Kerr made some lineup changes that Blatt couldn't adjust to...but I can't think of any coach who loses 2/5 of starting lineup....2nd and 3rd scorers..and wins more than one game in any series much less the finals.
Jury is still out on Lue's coaching skills, but so far he hasn't F'd it up.
I like Lebron as a player but his disrespect of head coaches is consistent throughout his career. I think he likes no name/low profile coaches so that he gets the credit when team wins ring. Coach without a name is easier to disrespect too because he knows the front office won't back up a coach who stands up to him.
Some of his teammates from his first run in Cleveland talked about how he openly flouted rules under Mike Brown. Compare that to the Spurs , where Pop will chew out Tim Duncan if he has to.
I agree - LeBron is a coach killer. Any coach without a backbone is afraid to stand up to him. It remains to be seen whether Lue has one, but it's encouraging so far.
I will never like LeBron after what he did in 2010. By far, the thing that I dislike the most is his constant whining every time he is called for a foul. In Miami, he tried to get Spoelstra fired, but Riley & Wade had more credibility because of their previous rings.
Last year was a testament to LeBron's greatness. Kerr should have been fired had they lost to the Cavs. Cleveland was forced to play a 7 man rotation, so all GS had to do was run them up and down the court. Even with the 7 players, Shumpert essentially played the Finals with one arm. So to take GS to 6 games was nearly miraculous.
************ Back to 2016, Draymond Green should be suspended for Game 4 of the Western Conf Finals for his kick to Adams. The refs have been terrible all postseason and should have tossed him from Game 3. But the league office needs to step in and say that the refs blew the call and suspend Green.
Glad to see the ESPN announcers for the Cavs-Raptors game call out the league for this decision. Usually they are such lackeys that they just act as parrots for the commissioner's office.
What is really unfortunate is that GS will get the calls tonight so that the series can be tied 2-2. Without Green and his moving screens, elbows, and flailing, OKC would definitely go up 3-1. Let's hope the Thunder's hot shooting continues and they win anyway.
Tim Donaghy made some comments at start of playoffs hinting that there were shenanigans going on. Media dismissed him.
Watching some of these calls and non calls this playoffs...Goombah, as your fellow Clevelander, Arsenio Hall, used to say....these are "things that make you say hmmmmm?"
it's a pic from a regular season matchup from last season in Philly.
I'm gonna try to watch the next complete Cavs game to see what kinds of adjustments they make.
They should play Mozgov so that he punishes the small frontcourt of Toronto. Cavs are trying to be midwest version of GSW rather than exploiting their advantages over Raptors.
I get the sense the Cavs will try to really disrupt Toronto's backcourt. The Cavs will dare the other Raptors to beat them. I also see the Cavs playing Frye more to draw Biyombo out from underneath.
The Warriors look done. I think they'll win Game 5 at home, but putting Adams on Curry at times was a stroke of genius. Curry is not used to have a 7 footer on him and it has disrupted his shot. Draymond Green looked foolish again last night with all of his turnovers. He's played small this series.
didn't watch the game, but in the highlights ,just like you said..Cavs were harassing the backcourt into multiple turnovers.
Draymond is a fake tough guy. Good skilled player who fits into their system but severely undersized as a power forward/center. If the Warriors have a lead...opposing teams aren't going to feed the low post player and abuse DG because they don't want the lead to balloon, but if the score is close...that's a matchup ripe for exploitation. Small ball doesn't work if the warriors are behind.Bogut and Festus are fouls waiting to happen.
Still not sold on Thunder...and think Warriors have a rabbit to pull out of their hats. But my predictions have been laughable in playoffs so far.
The GS offense has some similarities to the 99-01 Rams "Greatest Show on Turf." Conditions have to be just right for the offense to work. For the Warriors, it's no coincidence that Curry has had poor output in the games Green has been struggling mightily. Without the illegal moving screens set by Green, Curry is not getting as many open looks.
You're not sold on the Thunder? Maybe it's my damaged Cleveland sports psyche, but OKC looks invincible now. I feel like they're clicking at the perfect time. But maybe they just matchup well with GS.
Should be an epic series if it's LeBron/Kyrie vs. Durant/Westbrook. I really, really hope the Cavs can bring my city a championship.
Green should/could have gotten T'd up at least 3 times last game. He's daring the refs to toss him out of a game. NBA office is looking silly now for not giving him the suspension. They did get to stretch the series out though, which is what the NBA seems to care about primarily.
Thunder still doesn't run plays in crunch time.
Cavs should close out tonight and might have to play a team that had to go to 7 games.
2 straight years.....and 6 straight years for Lebron.
Thank you, kind sir.
The Cavs played the last two games like they should. Lowry was amazing in Game 6, but the Cavs had 80+ points from the Big Three and good contributions by RJ, Frye, & JR. Cavs are in much better health than this time last year. It should be a fun Finals, no matter who the Cavs face.
The GS offense has some similarities to the 99-01 Rams "Greatest Show on Turf." Conditions have to be just right for the offense to work. For the Warriors, it's no coincidence that Curry has had poor output in the games Green has been struggling mightily. Without the illegal moving screens set by Green, Curry is not getting as many open looks.
Meant to reply to this in earlier post. Interesting point comparing GSW to that Rams team. Patriots(in addition to cheating by possibly having tape of rams walkthrough) slowed them down by jamming the receivers at the the line...neutralizing their speed advantage. Thunder's scheme of not switching on pick'n'rolls, throwing an athletic big(SA) on Curry, and the refs limiting the illegal screens has slowed the fluid movement of the Warriors. It worked and has slowed down GSW. That small ball stuff only works if they have a lead....otherwise you can exploit their lack of size.
I hope Coach Donovan has another trick up his sleeve because I think refs will call the game so that the NBA has a big payday in a Memorial Day game 7.
That was a meltdown of epic proportions by OKC. I think they lost it much more than GS won the series. In the end, OKC was a two-man show vs. a much deeper Warriors roster.
It will be interesting to see whether GS is truly on a roll or whether they expended a ton of energy just to get this point. I think that they were expecting to face San Antonio in the WCF and took OKC lightly. That approach almost cost them the series.
If I am Ty Lue, I send one of my scrubs to bait Draymond Green into a fight. Then he gets the automatic suspension.
This Cavs team is vastly different than the one GS boat raced off the court in mid-January, let alone the team Cleveland fielded in the 2015 Finals.
Love is the pivotal player in this series.GSW has nobody who can handle Love on the low blocks. That's one of their weaknesses. KL is bigger than Draymond and more agile than Bogut/Festus. He's also a good passer.
Run the offense through KL on the high or low post.
One of the reasons why OKC couldn't beat these guys is that their offense was predictable.....iso KD or RW.....now they are facing iso LBJ or KI.
If KL shows up and plays like he says he's capable of playing, Cavs can beat these guys. You can shoot from the outside when you have to, but gotta be able to set up plays in the halfcourt offense..and you need a post player for that. Last year Mozgov was abusing GSW until they started swarming him when the entry pass came in. Love is a better passer/decision maker than TM.
I would add the Cavs missed 28 shots inside the paint, including 12 points within 2 feet. Then they focused on stopping Curry & Thompson at the expense of giving up at least 16 points to a wide open Warrior beneath the rim.
I'm not a gambler, but would put $$ down that the Cavs win Game 2. LeBron is 9-0 since 2009 in Game 2. If the Cavs do lose tonight, then the series is over.
Interesting that they missed 28 points in the paint and GSW doesn't have a shot blocker except Festus. Never mind trying to shoot layups....as Bill Walton would say "throw it down"...especially against the undersized Warriors
Draymond is still allowed to swipe for the ball...hitting Cavs player in the arms/hands with no foul called...refs are terrible
Coach Lue has to make adjustments,Cavs can beat these guys.
I think those close range misses were a combination of getting fouled and just not finishing. The refs have been terrible, but across the board not for or against one team. Although Curry is as fragile as a teenage girl, so he gets more calls than LeBron.
I think the Warriors are in the Cavs' heads. As a fan that is extremely frustrating. I agree with you - the Cavs can win this. But the Cavs need to dictate the tempo and hope to draw fouls. They also have to stay at home on defense - way too many times not recognizing the switch in Game 1.
Interesting that they missed 28 points in the paint and GSW doesn't have a shot blocker except Festus. Never mind trying to shoot layups....as Bill Walton would say "throw it down"...especially against the undersized Warriors
And on cue, Bogut blocks 5 shots in first quarter of game 2. :)So much for my basketball expertise.
I'll sit out the rest of the series with my analysis...eheheh
I think those close range misses were a combination of getting fouled and just not finishing. The refs have been terrible, but across the board not for or against one team. Although Curry is as fragile as a teenage girl, so he gets more calls than LeBron.
I think the Warriors are in the Cavs' heads. As a fan that is extremely frustrating. I agree with you - the Cavs can win this. But the Cavs need to dictate the tempo and hope to draw fouls. They also have to stay at home on defense - way too many times not recognizing the switch in Game 1.
agree with all of and especially the draw fouls part..attack whoever Steph is guarding
The series is over. I was so disgusted I shut it off with 6:00 to go before the half. If Silver had the balls to suspend Green last round, GS wouldn't even be here.
The series is over. I was so disgusted I shut it off with 6:00 to go before the half. If Silver had the balls to suspend Green last round, GS wouldn't even be here.
I see what you did there.
Lue has to justify the contract they gave him, because Blatt wasn't outcoached like this last year....even undermanned.
Until yesterday, I had not been this embarrassed watching the Cavs since LeBron quit in Game 5 of the 2010 series vs. Boston. I will never forget his phantom elbow injury and starting shooting free throws left handed.
What I saw in Games 1 & 2 was a Cavs team scared to play. The depleted roster of Thompson, Dellavedova, LBJ, Mozgov, & Shumpert played with 100 times more heart last year than this year's team at full strength. In the first two games, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, & JR Smith have shrunk under the pressure. Thompson has been forced out of the lane and then has been rushing to get back into position, with absymal results.
If I were Tyronn Lue, I would shake up my starting lineup and start Shumpert or James Jones in place of JR Smith and Channing Frye for Love. I would also play Mozgov when Bogut is in the game, even if that means starting Moz. These moves would strengthen the second unit and may actually stop the bleeding with the starting unit.
Don't be surprised if Lue does exactly what you suggested, because his way isn't working.
With all the bizarre turns this playoffs, don't count Cavs out just yet. One key injury or ejection can turn this entire thing around.
One thing for sure, Kyrie and Kevin need to play like the superstars they think they are.
Getthesenets,
I don't see Love playing Game 3 from the concussion in the previous game. Still not sure how he was elbowed in the head and no foul was called.
If Lue is stubborn, then he will insist on his way . I think he's smarter than that, but I don't know if it will matter. David Blatt had his critics for sure and some of it was justified. It's easy to forget that the Cavs were nearly up 3-0 in last year's Finals. But what will it say if the Cavs get ousted in 4-5 games with a full roster and David Blatt took GS to 6 games with effectively 7 players last year? The defense has slipped considerably from last year. And look at LeBron's lack of offense in the first two games comparied to the monster he was in the '15 Finals.
The Cavs have also stopped running offense. It's basically four guys sitting on the three point line while either Irving or LeBron try to drive. The defense just sits back and waits to converge. The Cavs offense is most effective when it snaps off quick passes and players are in constant motion. None of that has happened in the first two games.
If I were Lue, I would set the tone in the first five minutes. I would send out an expendable player to smash Green with an elbow or forearm. If he can get away with thuggery, there's no reason for the Cavs not to dish it back.
Agree. The perimeter clearouts that Cavs run...or that OKC ran last series won't work against the Warriors for a few reasons.
One....the shooters floating at 3 point line are SCARED....so the defense isn't playing them honestly (you don't have Mike Miller or Shane Battier out there)
Two....the scorers have the ball so defense is keyed on them the entire play (imagine having a high iq veteran pg who has the ball and your scorers are off the ball ?)Defense is keyed on stopping the scorers ,so pg can exploit the defense. For all the talk about all the great pgs in the league...give me an old veteran pg in clutch situations...he'd make the right play
Three....outside of Steph...entire Warrors team are interchangeable 6'6" to 6'9" long athletic wings who can switch on picks n rolls....so you can't even run pnr's
I agree the Cavs have been playing scared. I would add that GS is not respecting LeBron's jumper, so they will leave him alone at the arc and take their chances of him driving. So far, it's worked well since they are blocking his shots or he's missing contested layups from point blank range.
I had no feel heading into Game 2. I know the Cavs are not going to win the series, but I will be much more upset if the Cavs do not show some fight.
It's 3rd quarter of game 3 and Cavs are definitely fighting back. Crowd should be much louder though.
James just caqught the alley oop dunk and the roof should be blown off....
I thought the volume on my tv was not working.
With the lead, Cavs should be trying to draw fouls...get GSW in the penalty and shut the door on GSW..but they are shooting jumpers instead. why?
I think the quietness came after a terrible 2nd quarter by the Cavs. They went away from everything that worked in the 1st quarter, at least on the offensive side. I also think that many, including myself, realize that no lead is safe with GS. A lot of Clevelanders were waiting for the other shoe to drop. I didn't feel like the Cavs were not going to lose until the alley oop.
I'm not sure of the true number, but I lost count of how many drives LeBron didn't finish at the rim. It had to be at least 14 points. I don't understand how so many of those shots are not falling. I think that's why he started resorting to his jumper. By the 3rd quarter, LBJ drove a few times to the hole only to pass.
I was so hoping Klay Thompson was knocked out of the series when he collided with Mozgov. I loathe Thompson's fake tough guy persona.
Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the win. But I won't get overly excited unless the Cavs take Game 4. I hope Lue has the guts to have Kevin Love off the bench to maintain the athleticism of Richard Jefferson in the starting lineup. And the Cavs did a great job of limiting Bogut and Green's effectiveness in Game 3.
I hear you about no lead being safe against the Warriors,Goombah. Cavs shooting jumpers early in shot clock, even with a big lead, plays into GSW hands though. That's how they erased leads playing against the Thunder.
force the small ball warriors to play halfcourt defense, and you can expose the right matchup.....and more importantly..get klay and steph in foul trouble...those other gsw guys scored a lot of points in the first 2 games...but klay and steph are the closers ..the guys you want sitting down because of foul trouble.
You mentioned RJ being a big upgrade from Shawn Marion earlier in this thread and you were right...and it paid dividends.
Bron is missing shots on drives, to me, for the same reason that Channing Frye almost elbowed KT's head off last night...gsw is allowed to reach and smack people across hands and forearms with no whistle. KT had fouled CF after he got a rebound....refs act like they didn't see it, so he cleared space with elbows. Refs then called a tech on frye for "physical taunting" or some other garbage. Bron is getting his hands and armed smacked around on drives(no whistle) and it's throwing him off.He's strong enough to power through hat stuff if he goes all the way to the hole and dunks it, but on pullups....it's throwing off his balance a bit.
You mentioned RJ being a big upgrade from Shawn Marion earlier in this thread and you were right...and it paid dividends.
Bron is missing shots on drives, to me, for the same reason that Channing Frye almost elbowed KT's head off last night...gsw is allowed to reach and smack people across hands and forearms with no whistle. KT had fouled CF after he got a rebound....refs act like they didn't see it, so he cleared space with elbows. Refs then called a tech on frye for "physical taunting" or some other garbage. Bron is getting his hands and armed smacked around on drives(no whistle) and it's throwing him off.He's strong enough to power through hat stuff if he goes all the way to the hole and dunks it, but on pullups....it's throwing off his balance a bit.
That's a very astute point. I have thought LeBron has been getting hacked, going back to the 2015 Finals. But I also attributed that to my having a definite bias toward Cleveland and thinking the refs were screwing us. I'm glad to see it's being noticed, just wish it was by the officiating crews.
I fully expect Love to come off the bench for Game 4. And I think Kerr will adjust to Jefferson. It's up to Lue to counter adjust. Moving LeBron to the #4 against Green was a good move by Lue. LeBron is a matchup nightmare for Green. I also think the Cavs should go after Green and try to either get him into foul trouble, or better yet try to bait him into a flagrant foul.
Delly is the only guy who could bait DG into a tech...and if they guard each other on some kind of switch, you might see Delly do just that.
It's not just you noticing the fouls...outside of AI, who guard Lebron pretty well and has mastered getting clean swipes at the ball as defender is pulling up, gsw clogs the lane and everybody reaches or grabs Lebron as he's moving...refs don't call it and if not, gsw is smart for continuing to do it.
Also...no scoring big man in there for Cavs....no Mozgov. Bron, by instinct and basketball iq, drives to the lane to either score or dish. With a scoring big man in there for the Cavs....Bron would either draw the opposing big man and dish it to TM..or the defense would collapse when he drives giving TM an easier chance for rebound . As it is now...before Game 3, Bron drives into the lane against his defender....gsw players stay at home and maybe reach at him...defense doesn't collapse and gsw big man starts boxing out the moment Bron shoots.
Both teams have depth but I think Cavs have better variety of talent, so Lue has more options for adjustments. Before Mark Jackson mentioned it..I didn't know that RJ played for GSW recently...but if you notice...he fits the mold of most of their players....6'6"-6'9" athletic wing player...he can switch on anybody gsw has..even the centers because he's strong and has bulk to him. He's the Cavs version of Iggy and he's giving them fits now.
Allegedly NBA is looking at groin shot that Draymond threw at LBJ.May be suspended. It should be multiple games because he hits people in balls all throughout. the playoffs.
This suspension is nothing more than a ratings grab by NBA. Putting GS at a small disadvantage for a home game. If they really wanted to punish GS, Green would've been suspended for two games vs OKC. But the NBA couldn't risk having its teddy bear player (Curry) not play in the Finals.
The Cavs choked away Game 4. Lue stupidly burned his guys out playing LeBron, Irving, & Smith the entire 2nd half. LeBron cannot win without Wade or another alpha dog.
Shumpert has never looked worse than during this series. He played with one good arm last year vs. GS and was exponentially better. I have no idea what has happened with Kevn Love.
For one game at least, LeBron found his alpha dog in Cleveland. I'm not convinced that the Cavs can win Game 6 even at home. Hopefully Bogut is done for the series and Green will try to do too much after his suspension.
I'm not the biggest K Love fan, but I think he's getting a bad rap. He does not match up well vs GS. Then again they give lots of players fits. He's also coming off a concussion after being elbowed in the head. Not making excuses, but the guy is 18 pt/10 reb player the rest of the time.
I think Lue must figure out how to integrate Frye & Mozgov to go with a 9 man rotation. The 7 player rotation will kill the Cavs - just look at last year. All of the bench can spell the starters for a few minutes.
Love's skillset should make him a lot more useful in this series than he has been. Lot of the roster are specialists..and one dimensional players...so you play them as situation dictates...and yank them if they aren't performing in the one thing they do well. KL can do so many things, ideally he's supposed to be eating GSW defenders up.Who on that roster can guard him? He's just shrinking under the pressure.
I agree, expand the rotation...let Mozgov bang the GSW "bigs" around
Love's skillset should make him a lot more useful in this series than he has been. Lot of the roster are specialists..and one dimensional players...so you play them as situation dictates...and yank them if they aren't performing in the one thing they do well. KL can do so many things, ideally he's supposed to be eating GSW defenders up.Who on that roster can guard him? He's just shrinking under the pressure.
I agree, expand the rotation...let Mozgov bang the GSW "bigs" around
Love is shrinking under the pressure there's no denying. His Game 5 play was particularly puzzling given Green's suspsension. But Green is a matchup nightmare for Love given Love's slowness.
I still need you to tell me the lottery number for Thursday because baiting Green into that tech might have altered sports history, and you're the only one that I read ANYWHERE talk about using that tactic.
I still need you to tell me the lottery number for Thursday because baiting Green into that tech might have altered sports history, and you're the only one that I read ANYWHERE talk about using that tactic.
I'd like to take credit, but here's more likely what happened. The league got much more bad PR than it anticipated for its inaction with Green's kicks in the OKC series. Then Green hit LeBron in the groin. Had it been anyone but LeBron, the NBA would have again looked the other way. But the league realized they could win by suspending Green and extending the series, thus generating more revenue.
My dream scenario for Game 6 is that someone deep on the Cavs bench drop kicks Green in the groin. Or Green slips on the floor and accidentally kicks Curry in the packagae, thereby killing two birds with one stone.
I agree with the league's motivation. I give Lebron credit for the crafty vet move of baiting DG and then speaking about the altercation to the press to draw attention to it. You are right that if it wasn't Lebron.....there wouldn't have been a tech levied AFTER the fact.
If you recall, and time really does fly, last year...Mike Miller left the bench after an altercation between Lebron and Bogut during the Finals....and because no reporter mentioned it...NBA didn't sit Miller for the next game.
NBA front office and refs are making a mockery of the rules going on two years straight. The Lebron-DG altercation happened RIGHT in front of a ref..and it was after DG set a MOVING SCREEN..and then held Bron's arm to keep him from going around him...
sets illegal screen at 1:20..REF is RIGHT there...you've been calling this out for weeks,Goombah.
The game AFTER DG should have gotten tossed for kicking Adams....he was blatantly doing fake tough guy tactics....as though he was untouchable...I think now with the hammer coming down on him....he'll tone down the nonsense for fear of getting another T.
I think the Cavs will go after Green early since he'll be playing center with Bogut out. It's incumbent upon Cleveland to get him into early foul trouble. That frustration may lead to a technical, or better yet, a flagrant.
The other strong possibility is that Green plays timid and doesn't fould, thereby giving LeBron and/or Kyrie easy shots at the hoop.
Cavs should dominate the boards. GSW is going to continue to reach in on driving players as long as refs allow it...they will do it more now that Bogut isn't available.
I'd play lineup of KI,LBJ,RJ,KL,TT for key stretches.....with RJ hounding Klay on defense.
Glad that refs have been called out by Van Gundy on national tv for getting lot of calls wrong..including getting fooled by AV and his flops. DG is under the microscope and I dn't think he's the same player without the fake tough guy antics (and the illegal screens he ALWAYS sets)
If NBA does what it 's supposed to do...which is to suspend the player who threw something that hit a fan.....I'll watch part of game 7....standing on my head.
Kerr's comments about the officiating are true. But he conveniently overlooks all the ticky tack calls against Cleveland. Love got his 3rd foul early 2nd quarter on a play where he grazed Green. Another Cav hacked him. Then how about the Varaejo flop in Game 5 where Dellavedova gets whistled.
GS reminds me of entitled children. Then again, Kerr, Thompson, & Curry all grew up that way.
The biggest takeaway is Iguodola's back. He had absolutely no lift and was not the same guarding LeBron as he had been. If he can't go, or is limited, that spells trouble for GS's smaller lineup.
Cavs have momentum and I think the Warriors are a little panicked. Doesn't mean anything, but I think the pressure is much more on GS.
"Never Stop. Never Stop fighting until the fight is done"
"You got an all out prize fight...you wait until the fight is done and there's one guy left standing. And that's how you know who won"
I'd say last night's win ranks up there with Giants beating undefeated Patriots in the Superbowl. Down 3-1 to team with best regular season record....and 2 X MVP.
This summed up my feelings about GS at the beginning of the series. I'll admit they were tougher than I gave them credit for and that 73 wins was no accident. The Cavs just out physicaled GS in the final 3 games.
Yes I did, Getthesenets. I texted my boss 30 minutes after the game to request to attend. I took my son & it was a very enjoyable day. He snapped pretty good pics while sitting on my shoulders.
Thanks Getthesenets. It's been great talking hoops with you. I thoroughly enjoy your perspective.
What do you think will happen with Durant? I hope that he goes anywhere but Golden State. Although I think having 3 big scorers might be difficult to make everyone happy when there's only one ball.
I can't think of where KD might land. Veteran, high IQ point guards don't grow on trees...but if OKC can land one...KD's best chance for a ring is team he is on now.
Think he might have outgrown the small market Thunder though and wants to play on a bigger stage.
You're right about him potentially messing up the chemistry of GSW.
I agree the point guard spot is tough. Earlier this week, Mike & Mike were saying that Westbrook's contract with OKC is up next year. I think that's where the choice gets tougher for KD. If he thinks (or knows) that Westbrook is bolting, do they stay for one more try in 2017?
I wonder whether San Antonio might be a better fit, particuarly if Duncan retires. Then there is a young nucleus of KD, Aldridge, and Leonard. That's a powerful big three, even though KD & Leonard play the same position. They might just go with a small lineup to match the speed of GS. It could even put KD in the pivot at times.
Remember the 2004 L.A. Lakers? The supposed super team with Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton, & Karl Malone. They clashed all year and pulled it together enough to make it to the Finals. Then they were summarily dismissed by a true team, one devoid of any superstars: the Detroit Pistons.
Will this work in Golden State? Who knows. But whether they wanted it or not, the pressure will be tremendous starting the day Durant signs his name to the contract. Rightly or wrongly, the expectation should be 75 wins and a title. Anything short of that is a failure.
It also makes GS transform from media darlings to overnight villians. Now there will be vitriol for Curry, KD, and Thompson. Green will not only have to share the ball more, he'll have to be share being hated.
I said it during the playoffs and it bears repeating. If the NBA had the guts to suspend Draymond Green for his multiple kicks to Steven Adams, then we're not having this conversation. GS would have been eliminated in the Western Conf Finals.
The NBA's inability to suspend Green is a mistake of historic proportions. If OKC wins that series while Green served a 1-2 game suspension, Durant stays. Then GS's regular season is rendered even more meaningless than losing to Cleveland. The non-suspension FOREVER altered the path of two franchises and has made the NBA virtually uncompetitive. At the very least, it further solidies the belief of many that the NBA regular season is a complete waste of time.
I also think the Durant signing was a bit of a hedge against Curry's fragile health, combined with Thompson & Curry shrinking in big moments. These guys will need to play big minutes particularly since they depleted their once deep bench.
Lastly, where is that entitled wind bag of a wife of Steph Curry? Don't hear her chirping about the NBA being rigged now that things are going her way again. She doesn't have the first clue about adversity.
good post. Green must have felt untouchable after NBA was scared to suspend him because the VERY next game....as he scored on OKC bigs he would run down the court right in their faces flexing his puny arms( things that draw technicals in modern nba)
I'd say the past 3 years...three incidents have altered sports history. Celtics guy injuring KL in last year's playoffs ( no call on the floor when it happened)....Green not being suspended this year against okc, and Bron doing the crafty vet move and stepping over DG and baiting him into a move that forced the nba to suspend him.
refs and front office of NBA are inconsistent and it's a running joke. If Bron doesn't trick DG...Warriors are 2 time champs for sure. If KL doesn't get hurt last year, maybe Cavs are 2x champs. if DG has to sit, maybe okc wins ring this year.
Mrs. Curry talking about rigged outcomes, hahahahahahahahahahah. Steph raked Bron across his arm trying to steal the ball, that is a foul......they did it all series and perhaps she started thinking it was a legal play because refs chose not to call it all the other times..hahahahahahaah
If Warriors replace the guys they lost with high hoops iq defensive minded guys, they will be back in Finals next year.
What I like about GSW loading up is that it forces other teams to be active in off season. You can't keep last year's roster and convince your fanbase that you are serious about trying to win an NBA title after KD joined the Warriors.
Some of the local sports talk guys had worked themselves into a lather thinking Wade was coming to the Cavs. I didn't buy into it because no feud is worth leaving $17 million per season on the table. Cavs could pay $3 mil and the Heat offered $20 mil. I would have been really upset if we traded Love for a 35 year old two guard with bad knees.
That said, I was pretty shocked to wake up and read Wade signed with Chicago. I thought this was all a preamble to make Riley sweat a little. I get that Wade is from Chicago, but I don't see that he greatly improved his chances of winning another title. Wade must be convinced that Bosh is never going to be the same/be able to overcome the blood issue OR Wade felt slighted by the Heat organization.
I think he felt slighted by the Heat.He's actually THE most important player in the history of the franchise. Easily their best draft choice, Finals mvp, he help recruit Bron and Bosh.
Oh well, Chicago is a top 3 media market so perhaps Wade is trying to set himself up for post playing career,or for front office or part ownership.
What do you hear about Ray Allen coming out of retirement? I say why not? Steve Kerr and Robert Horry sat on benches and hit key shots in playoffs to win rings for years....why not Ray?
I just read about Allen this morning. LeBron went after Allen hard in the 14-15 season to try and lure him to the Cavs. I know I am biased, but I am trying to say this from an objective standpoint. Why would Allen choose GS over Cleveland? GS has too many 3 point shooters. They need someone to offer a variety. That's what killed them in Game 7 especially - no offense when the 3's don't fall.
Good point.But, the weather in Cleveland during the winter though. In January, RA will be starting his car to go to practice and think "I gave up NBA retirement for THIS?
I think NBA players still resent Cavs ownership for how they treated Lebron after his first exit. LBJ was able to be a bigger man about it and he brought his hometown area that ring , but I think that rubbed a lot of players the wrong way.
Riley's treatment of Wade is going to have a similar effect when Heat tries to land players in the future.
I'd like to see Green kick an international player. Then all hell would break loose on the court.
You had an interesting point about players resenting Gilbert. I hadn't really thought of it from that perspective. It's clear LBJ and Gilbert are only working partners and LeBron does whatever he can to distance himself from Gilbert. But I guess I overlooked how influential LeBron's feelings about Gilbert resonated with many in the league.
If you recall, the way the Bulls front office handled Phil Jackson and MJ following the second 3peat made a lot of players wary of signing with the Bulls. And that was mainly a money issue , if I recall...with Phil and the organization not agreeing on either money or length of contract.
If you win ring(S) and don't get taken care of by the franchise, what makes unproven guys think that organization will treat them right if they sign.
Bulls were terrible for years and had to build up team through the draft.
Gilbert's words were personal....and I didn't even catch the full story....and it alienated superstar, star, and even good players from thinking of joining the Cavs. Gilbert's words turned out to be a lot of huffing and puffing because under his watch and without Bron....Cavs didn't do anything.
With Bron (and the players that he helped recruit) and KI....2 finals appearances and 1 ring in two years.
Good analogy with the Bulls. Hard to believe that dynasty ended 18 years ago. They could've had another legitimate superstar if Rose didn't battle so many injuries.
Your points about Gilbert are valid, but LeBron is not blameless. Especially when he was here the first time. He NEVER recruited players to the Cavs between '07 and '10, which was the contract he signed after his rookie deal expired. Part of it was that he didn't have the championship cache at the time to attract marquee names. But the other big part was why would a superstar commit to a 4-5 year deal in Cleveland without knowing whether the best player would bolt? LeBron's public lack of commitment was why he was stuck with lesser talent like Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Shaq at the end of his career, etc.
What was even more revolting was watching LeBron recruit immediately upon signing in Miami. I think that was just his way of sticking it to Gilbert for the letter.
thanks for the inside story about Lebron. You add a lot of great info to these Cleveland topics. Apparently national sports media gets a lot of these Cleveland stories wrong....like the story of Love getting traded from last year..which you debunked quickly.
That's a valid criticism of Lebron. I think some of it was ego and Bron thinking that if he could drag those assorted parts to the NBA finals,like he did in '07 that his career was gonna be a cakewalk with rings galore. That he could do it by himself. I think some of it was immaturity, not understanding that winning teams are not about star power but COMPLEMENTARY talent.
That's a great call about Bron instantly recruiting in Miami, to spite Cavs ownership. I think a lot of these trades and moves are brokered by players and not GMs. I Wade is hurt because he is most responsible for bringing Bosh and Bron in, taking a back seat and a pay cut to do so, and then not being shown any respect later. Heat treatment of Wade sends message to players to not sacrifice for your team and fans to win rings, to take care of yourself because team doesn't give a F about you in the end.
I completely agree that Riley took advantage of Wade. When they came together in 2010, Wade had already won a ring. He should've taken a back seat to no one then. Can't fault him for being a good guy and taking a bit less so that the organization could pay LeBron & Bosh. But the minute LeBron left in '14, Riley should've shown Wade the respect with the paycheck.
Then again, maybe Riley was taking a page out of Belichick's philosophy. How many dozens of Patriots are shown the door and not overpaid? And maybe Riley saw the lunacy of the Lakers in paying Kobe huge sums at the end of the career when Kobe was a shell of himself.
But no doubt Riley could have handled the situtation better. Riley should've made sure Wade played for Miami his entire career.
At the end of the day, all parties know that business decisions have to made ,but Wade made the point to leak the fact that Riley never met or spoke with him. That's the disrespect part. Wade took a pay cut at the height of his peak/earning power to benefit the organization. Wade's value at this point isn't what he would think, but Riley has to be a man and have a face to face discussion with him.
Leaking that Riles didn't even do that is a big F you to the Heat as Wade leaves. That will haunt them in years to come recruiting players.
Good point about the Belichick approach.Patriots do show everybody the door, great line btw, as long as Brady is there and every other part can be replaced. I thought that Wade was "Brady" on the Heat...at least since Bron left..so letting him go signals they are completely rebuilding.
* Any young person, reading this..that's a pic of Don Nelson, architect of the Hack-A-Shaq . Mavs used the technique...Shaq bricked all the foul shots...in post-game..Shaq called Nelson a clown for using the tactic..so next time they played Nelson came out with a clown nose on...Shaq is a great showman so he hugged Nelly and placed the clown nose on himself.
* Any young person, reading this..that's a pic of Don Nelson, architect of the Hack-A-Shaq . Mavs used the technique...Shaq bricked all the foul shots...in post-game..Shaq called Nelson a clown for using the tactic..so next time they played Nelson came out with a clown nose on...Shaq is a great showman so he hugged Nelly and placed the clown nose on himself.
I never knew the back story. When I used to listen to Jim Rome 15 years ago, I remember him referring to Nellie the Clown. But I never knew why. That is hilarious.
Thanks for posting the context Getthesenets.
I just noticed in your profile when you joined the BB. I think that was a day or two before LeBron made the Decision 1.0. Fortuitous timing!
How does Silver not realize that he was a MAJOR factor in Durant going to GS? If Silver showed any guts and suspended Draymond Green for multiple kicks to the groin of Steven Adams, KD never leaves OKC. Why? Because a suspended Green means that OKC advances to the Finals. No way does KD leave a team after dispatching the greatest regular season team of all time.
NBA has egg on their face after DG got arrested for assault in the off season. Innocent until proven guilty, BUT...we documented how DG felt emboldened to crank up the fake tough guy act AFTER the league chickened out from suspending him.
This assault arrest seems to a continuation of that act.I hope the police report of the altercation comes out. If it involves somebody getting hit in the crotch area,I'll fall out of my chair.
Not suspending DG altered sports history for sure. I don't understand Silver's comments. GSW wasn't the team that could offer KD the most money, he just went there because he felt that was his best chance to win. How do you fault teams for being attractive to star players? Knicks have the money, Madison Avenue, and the Garden....and nobody who is smart wants to play there.Not always about the money.
I cannot get excited about Team USA, particularly when Green is on the team. Not to say that I'm rooting against them, but Draymond Green is a horrible reprsentative of the USA and of NBA basketball IMHO.
meant to ask you....did the convention manage to leave your city in one piece?
Between the deep Finals run and the RNC, that's a lot of money pumped into the local economy this year.
Also, I was told by a guy from Cleveland that as happy as the people are about the ring, that it's a football town first and foremost and that if Browns ever win Superbowl...the celebration would dwarf what happened this year. Agree or disagree?
meant to ask you....did the convention manage to leave your city in one piece?
Between the deep Finals run and the RNC, that's a lot of money pumped into the local economy this year.
Also, I was told by a guy from Cleveland that as happy as the people are about the ring, that it's a football town first and foremost and that if Browns ever win Superbowl...the celebration would dwarf what happened this year. Agree or disagree?
Hi Getthesenets,
Luckily, I had plenty of vac time so I took off the week of the RNC. By all accounts, it went off without a hitch. There was one protestor who burned a flag, but also stupidly managed to catch themself on fire. Other than that, the police outnumbered the protestors significantly.
Yes, Cleveland is a football first city. NE Ohio and the state have long football traditions. It goes back to Paul Brown and his revolutionary innovations. Then you have some storied high school football programs, along with Ohio State. Recent history aside, the Browns of the 1950s and early 60s were as dominant as the Patriots/Spurs runs of present day.
This is to take nothing away from what the Cavs did, but if the Indians or Browns ever win a title, the parade will be 2 million. Both the Indians & Browns go back 3-4 generations, whereas the Cavs came into being in 1970. I'm not holding my breath on the Browns any time soon, but the Indians under Francona have a good shot this year and for the next 2-3 years.
This is to take nothing away from what the Cavs did, but if the Indians or Browns ever win a title, the parade will be 2 million. Both the Indians & Browns go back 3-4 generations, whereas the Cavs came into being in 1970. I'm not holding my breath on the Browns any time soon, but the Indians under Francona have a good shot this year and for the next 2-3 years.
Goombah,
not sure if you're a gambling man but you seem to write things and then they happen.
Also, do you think the GSW can beat the Cavs this year? What changes did you guys make in off season?
This is to take nothing away from what the Cavs did, but if the Indians or Browns ever win a title, the parade will be 2 million. Both the Indians & Browns go back 3-4 generations, whereas the Cavs came into being in 1970. I'm not holding my breath on the Browns any time soon, but the Indians under Francona have a good shot this year and for the next 2-3 years.
Goombah,
not sure if you're a gambling man but you seem to write things and then they happen.
Also, do you think the GSW can beat the Cavs this year? What changes did you guys make in off season?
On that premise, I am feeling that a million dollar lottery winning is in my grasp within the next 6 months.
The Indians bullpen has been incredible so far this postseason. They are following the model Kansas City used the past two years. The difficulty now is that the Indians' rotation has been decimated. Salazar may be available should we advance to the World Series.
I'll be interested to see how the Cavs come out in the first 2-3 months of the season. I'm hoping that they still have the eye of the tiger, but my fear is that they do not.
Tristan Thompson is dating a Kardashian, which hasn't ended well for any of her exes. Mo Williams & Dellevedova are gone and we lost Mosgov. I like the addition of Dunleavy and we have Kay Felder, who is 5'9" and being compared to Boston's Isiah Thomas. It should be a good team, but I'm not sure enough to win the whole thing. They'll probably represent the East again, but I think they could lose to San Antonio or Golden State.
I'm hoping Golden State underachieves like the year the Lakers added Karl Malone & Payton. They'll be good, no doubt, but we'll see how well they share the ball. I can see Draymond & KD clashing, along with Thompson pouting if his touches decrease.
I'm still in shock. Indians bullpen has dominated two of the biggest hitting lineups. I just hope it continues for four wins in 2016. Then followed by an Ohio State national championship in January!
Now you're just being greedy,Goombah. You've been right so far about basketball, baseball, and (pro)football teams , so we'll see how it turns out. Magical year for Cleveland sports.
I saw that Ernest Byner was at the Cavs parade. Did Kosar and Marty Schottenheimer come back too ?
I know Kosar & Jim Brown were at the parade. But I don't know about Marty. That would've been a nice touch. The whole thing with Byner was great. I had no idea he rec'd death threats after the fumble. He was genuinely hurt by the play for s long time, much like Bill Buckner. It appears that the Cavs' title exorcised those demons.
It was still a great year, and if anybody offers me that two of my area sports teams make it to finals in same calendar year I'd take it 10 out of 10 times. OSU is still technically in the BCS hunt.....so maybe 3 area teams play for championship.
With the Cavs win, Cleveland fans are basically playing with house money when it comes to sports titles this year.
Know of any deals in the works before the trade deadline for the Cavs?
*also what is the reaction to Cleveland guy Oakley getting tossed from MSG?
Hi Getthesenets,
I hope that all is well with you!
Nothing major from what I hear from the various beat reporters. It sounds as if Love's knee might be a serious concern. But the Cavs are strapped and really cannot make an impactful move. I'm still scratching my head why LeBron complained a few weeks ago when he knows fully that a big trade can't happen.
The Oakley reaction has been very much in his favor, not just locally but nationally. We are glad to have the good Dolans running the Indians rather than the disaster that is the Knicks. They've been dysfunctional since the Isaiah Thomas fiasco, followed by Carmelo and Phil Jackson.
I'm sure Oakley is not innocent in all this, but it appears (for now) that Dolan has the thinnest skin this side of Donald Trump.
All is well, thanks.Hope all is well with you too. Times flies and in a few months we're going to see the 3rd year of the Cleveland Basketball Invitational aka The NBA playoffs.
I always have to ask you come trade deadline time, a few years back the national sports guys were floating half truths and lies about Cavs trades....and you called BS on those rumors, and you were right.
What do you think of Cavs' chance to repeat and who poses the biggest threat to them?
If Oak isn't getting any support locally, speaks volumes about him and this incident. I find Dolan funny. He was acting like Ted Dibiase(the wrestler) The Million Dollar Man , the other day...."Everybody has a price" He gets bad press for booting out Oak, so he has LJ and Sprewell sitting next to him in a nationally televised game. Great PR move.
No, what I meant Oakley IS getting supported locally. I meant to say that the NY Dolan is the one getting criticized. I just figure Oakley must have said something to get thrown out of MSG last week. It could have been something little but who knows.
Since my last post, I heard Love is out for six weeks after knee surgery. I heard a rumor that we may get Bogut, which I think would help. Cleveland has zero rim protection this year and I think they miss Dellavedova as the backup point guard.
I have my doubts about the Cavs repeating, but the regular season is such a bad barometer. They got to the Finals in '15 with a decimated roster, so it's just a matter of being healthy and playing hot at the right time.
It's difficult to pick against Golden State given their depth. But one thing they have been blessed with the past 3+ years is good health. Odds are that the injury bug will catch up with them sooner or later. Durant looks like a beast, so let's see if he can bring that to the postseason.
One thing Cleveland showed the rest of the league last year is that Golden State does not like it when their opponent plays physical. Curry and Thompson took a lot of hard fouls and were taken out of their rhythm by Cleveland's defense. If San Antonio or Houston could do that too, they might sneak by GS in the playoffs.
thanks. people in this area love Oakley but the reaction has been mixed.Knicks are a circus act, a sideshow now.
Thanks for Cavs update. Bogut on Cavs would be hilarious. GSW is strong but Draymond is the weak link. He's a hothead and can be tricked into doing stupid stuff come playoff time.
So what do you make of the Durant injury Getthesenets? My take, without seeing ESPN or any tv on it, is that it will be eerily similar to when Curry slipped in the first round of the playoffs and sprained his MCL. KD will be back, maybe not for the regular season, but for the postseason. What will be interesting is whether it negatively impacts their seeding or their quest for homecourt.
Bogut is signing with the Cavs. I think the Cavs have a solid 1-10 once they get JR Smith & Love back. This will be the deepest Cavs team I have seen and certainly rivaling the deep bench GS had last year.
Goombah, First I heard about this injury was reading your post.Haven't watched GSW much this year but I it will be a more difficult adjustment to KD, then Steph.
Steph played point guard, but he's not really a traditional point..Livingston is, and on a team full of shooters with championship experience...it was smooth transition.
I'm assuming KD replaced Harrison Barnes in lineup..and not sure who his backup is since Barnes is gone.
I'm old enough to remember when Bogut was a decent player, pre injury. I like the pickup and thought Cavs should have kept T. Mozgov, who was a good payer for them. Think there's an element of gamesmanship in the pickup of Bogut..as the pickup of Anderson V. was for GSW last year. Refs won't allow Bogut to plsy the goon role against GSW like he did to Lebron in past finals. He'll get tossed for breathing on Curry. I like the depth the Cavs have....they match up well with whoever comes out of the West....including the Spurs.
Goombah, First I heard about this injury was reading your post.Haven't watched GSW much this year but I it will be a more difficult adjustment to KD, then Steph.
Steph played point guard, but he's not really a traditional point..Livingston is, and on a team full of shooters with championship experience...it was smooth transition.
I'm assuming KD replaced Harrison Barnes in lineup..and not sure who his backup is since Barnes is gone.
I'm old enough to remember when Bogut was a decent player, pre injury. I like the pickup and thought Cavs should have kept T. Mozgov, who was a good payer for them. Think there's an element of gamesmanship in the pickup of Bogut..as the pickup of Anderson V. was for GSW last year. Refs won't allow Bogut to plsy the goon role against GSW like he did to Lebron in past finals. He'll get tossed for breathing on Curry. I like the depth the Cavs have....they match up well with whoever comes out of the West....including the Spurs.
I agree with you about Mozgov. But the Lakers offered crazy money so I can't fault the player for cashing in. Moz didn't matchup well vs. GS, but no team should build to play against one opponent.
I think GS signed another Barnes in the wake of the KD injury. My best guess is that having Durant out will help the guards. Curry has been mired in a slump, so this will help him get some more shots.
This is one of my fave times of the sports year. Spring training, March madness, and meaningful NBA and NHL games.
thanks for the update..didn't know GSW signed Matt Barnes. I like the pickup...he was on the GSW the last time an 8 upset the 1 seed in playoffs when they beat the Mavs. Solid player, and will make opposing teams think twice about trying rough stuff with Curry.
I think Curry can go back to mad bombing now that he's not making a concerted effort to share the ball with KD.
I respect the competitive nature of these guys but I think that they lose perspective when they risk their lives to play a game, long after they've achieved financial security. Alonzo Mourning is another one. He had life threatening kidney problem....and returned to the sport.
I hope both Aldridge and Bosh stay away and live long productive lives doing other things. If they love the game so much, get into coaching.
I gave a toast at a wedding once & said "may you stay together did death do you part, or until T-mac makes it out of the first round......whichever is longer"
I gave a toast at a wedding once & said "may you stay together did death do you part, or until T-mac makes it out of the first round......whichever is longer"
I think Memphis can upset San Antonio as well. They did a few years ago. I wouldn't mind seeing it personally, but, as of now, over a 7 game series, my money would be on the Spurs.
I hope I'm wrong and Oklahoma City stuns Houston and Westbrook outshines Harden so the MVP can be a lock for him. As of now, I'm not at all sold on Cleveland repeating. The team has been in a downward spiral for at least the last month or so. I still think they can come out of the East, but as of now, going up against a team like Golden State, I don't see it being very competitive.
Since the Grizz upset the Spurs that one time..think it was 8 beating a 1 seed.....I pick them each time they face off in playoffs...and they always get swept by Spurs.
Like an idiot though, I'm gonna pick Memphis again.
Cleveland didn't end season strong, but unless injuries occur..I see them going 7 games with GSW in finals...and anything can happen.
i think the 3 year grind, adding new pieces, choking last year, and durant not being great in the clutch.....all catches up to gsw this year
I respect your basketball acumen Getthesenets. But I'm having a tough time agreeing that GS will not win it all. They've heard all the choke jokes for a year and have a strong nucleus bolstered by KD.l
The Cavs will not make it out of the east. I think they're defense is abysmal and will catch up to them in the ECF. If they somehow advance to the Finals, it will be over in 5 games, much like LeBron's loss to SA in '14.
thanks...my hoops prediction success rate is pretty bad.
I just don't believe in GSW anymore....they folded...and they added a player who was part of an epic collapse in the WCF when his team folded.I think Durant is a great regular season player...but I've seen smaller guys guard him in key stretches in playoffs and give him problems.
Cavs lollygag through the reg. season because the East is weak. Eastern Conference is full of pretenders..and when Cavs are forced to actually play...they step up tie and time again against Raptors,Hawks or whoever is supposed to upset them in playoffs.
Cavs are your team, so I believe you when you say they've taken a step back and are bad on defense. If it were a few years ago with the best of five opening round...maybe some team could catch them sleeping and knock them off, but I just don't see any team in East being able to beat them 4 times.
That's a tough situation that Thomas is in. Bulls have quietly built a very solid team. They make playoffs every year...even when Rose was there and injured..they'll be a tough out.
Last times #1 lost in first round were Dirk's Mavs one year to pre-Curry GSW...and Spurs to Memphis a few years back.
I mention Dirk's name because he got his MVP award at a podium, during the second round after Mavs got bounced.
Spurs losing to Grizz was a huge upset..and Spurs haven't loss a single game to them in playoffs since then
You're right Getthesenets. I feel horribly for Isaiah Thomas. Chicago looks to be matching up extremely well with Boston. Wade, Butler, & of course Rondo are making things tough on Boston.
Thanks for the correction - I figured that couldn't be right. It's almost impossible to fathom a Pop/Duncan team getting ousted in 1st round.
Wow the Bulls took two in Boston to put all kinds of pressure on the Celtics. When was last time an 8th seed won? I'm guessing Knicks in '99?
I agree. I'm very surprised they're going back to Chicago down 0-2. I know Thomas is dealing with his personal issues. I'm just surprised nobody else has stepped up. And this was a team who before the playoffs began said they were being disrespected as a #1 seed. Here's the reason why. I would love to see Chicago finish them off at home!
pacers are chumps....i turned off the game when they were running cavs out of the gym..up by 20...at home....and somehow lost?
I had the first half on in the background and didn't really sit down to watch until late 3rd quarter. Pacers were unconscious shooting in 1st half and went cold 2nd half. Cavs played no def 1st half and played well 2nd half.
Getthesenets, the most interesting thing was that Lu benched Kyrie & Love for the 4th quarter. They're all saying the right thing now, but I wonder if there will be a long-term impact of this decision. Hopefully it will be a wake-up call that those two need to play defense.
Blonde, if Cavs closed out the game without Kyrie and Love.. then LeBron pulled another rabbit out of a hat.
Goombah, I like the move by Lue.He yells at and sits LeBron sometimes,so surely Ky and Love aren't untouchable.Coach just reminded them that they need to commit on both sides of the ball.I think since they won last year that it's an easier pill to swallow for those guys.
I thought the Grizz could upset, but I pick them against Spurs almost every year and they lose again and again.
Haven't seen much basketball this year, so maybe basing this on past years....but I like Wizards backcourt and always liked Gortart....Celtics are gonna have problems
SHAME on the Thunder....they live and die by whether Westbrook's jumper is falling....
I HATE the modern NBA....what ever happened to post play?
low post....even the mid post....and running actual plays?
I like Coach Pop, but I think he sent the goons out there last night to try to draw techs or get Rockets ejected/suspended.
Spurs are a class act 99.99% of the time but , if you recall...another D'antoni team was giving them fits and about to win a series,The Suns...and then Robert Horry cheapshots Steve Nash....Stoudemire leaves the bench...suspended..and Spurs turn the series around.
Don't send scrubs out there to injure players or get them tossed.
I HATE the modern NBA....what ever happened to post play?
low post....even the mid post....and running actual plays?
You and me both. The league and the game have really gone down hill for me since Michael Jordan retired for the second time in 1998. Ever since then, it just hasn't been the same for me. My beefs are:
1) Centers have no outside game. I remember growing up watching Patrick Ewing, Rik Smits, David Robertson, etc. These guys could shoot and even make free throws.
2) The Hack-a-Shaq that puts the worst free throw shooter on the line and slows the game down to a crawl. Not to mention all of the timeouts during the last 5 minutes of a game. The last 5 minutes of a game can last up to 45 minutes with all of that crap!
3) Little changes like a backcourt violation is only 8 seconds now, rather than 10.
4) Ugly uniforms. What infuriates me more than anything is how more and more, the away team wears a white jersey and the home team wears a dark jersey. I have to figure out who's the home team based on the logo at center court, rather than what jersey the team is wearing. Football is the only game where a home team wears a dark color and the visitors wear a white color. Now the NBA has so many of the stupid, ugly jerseys that they want to sell, more times than not, they have the home team wearing a dark color. And don't even get me started on those horrendous volleyball jerseys too!
5) Sponsors on jerseys. Yes, beginning next year, NBA jersey's are no longer sacred. They will allow advertisers to put their logo on all of the teams jerseys. I mean really, how much is enough? It'll roll out slowly, but before long, they'll wind up looking like NASCAR drivers and will look absolutely ridiculous. This is NOT the league I remember watching growing up. It has done a lot to expand itself, especially globally, but due to these items above, these are just some of the reasons why I really only watch during the playoffs (and it's usually either the conference or NBA Finals).
I HATE the modern NBA....what ever happened to post play?
low post....even the mid post....and running actual plays?
You and me both. The league and the game have really gone down hill for me since Michael Jordan retired for the second time in 1998. Ever since then, it just hasn't been the same for me. My beefs are:
1) Centers have no outside game. I remember growing up watching Patrick Ewing, Rik Smits, David Robertson, etc. These guys could shoot and even make free throws.
2) The Hack-a-Shaq that puts the worst free throw shooter on the line and slows the game down to a crawl. Not to mention all of the timeouts during the last 5 minutes of a game. The last 5 minutes of a game can last up to 45 minutes with all of that crap!
3) Little changes like a backcourt violation is only 8 seconds now, rather than 10.
4) Ugly uniforms. What infuriates me more than anything is how more and more, the away team wears a white jersey and the home team wears a dark jersey. I have to figure out who's the home team based on the logo at center court, rather than what jersey the team is wearing. Football is the only game where a home team wears a dark color and the visitors wear a white color. Now the NBA has so many of the stupid, ugly jerseys that they want to sell, more times than not, they have the home team wearing a dark color. And don't even get me started on those horrendous volleyball jerseys too!
5) Sponsors on jerseys. Yes, beginning next year, NBA jersey's are no longer sacred. They will allow advertisers to put their logo on all of the teams jerseys. I mean really, how much is enough? It'll roll out slowly, but before long, they'll wind up looking like NASCAR drivers and will look absolutely ridiculous. This is NOT the league I remember watching growing up. It has done a lot to expand itself, especially globally, but due to these items above, these are just some of the reasons why I really only watch during the playoffs (and it's usually either the conference or NBA Finals).
1) To a large degree, I agree the NBA started its decline when Jordan left in '98. But the other major contributing factor was when David Stern started to allow players to enter the draft after 1 year of college. Players are still raw with their talent and many are not ready for the NBA. This, more than anything else, has contributed to the decline in play IMHO.
2) I also cannot stand the friendship shown between players on different teams. I loved the 80s/90s when the NBA had fights between Dr. J and Boston, Tree Rollins biting Danny Ainge, and fill-in-the-blank incidents with Detroit.
3) I hate that players feel they have to shake hands with their teammate after every free throw.
4) I watched about 20 minutes of Game 1 of the Cavs-Raptors. Nearly the entire time neither team ran offense. The only approach was to chuck 3-pointers.
I know that I sound like "get off my lawn" guy. But the quality has gone down immensely. Right now, I think MLB is the best thing going. I thought the NFL really declined last year and will continue declining because 1/2 the league has medicore-to-bad QB play. This stems from QBs running the spread and from the shotgun in college. The learning curve from the NCAA to the NFL is too great for many of them.
I too have switched loves to baseball (love my Yankees). And yes, there's no more rivalries in the NBA any more and it's a shame. I never agreed with the NBA's rule to not allow high schoolers to jump pro anymore. My attitude has always been, if a team wants to take a chance and draft them, let them. They're hurting/limiting the players earning potential. What happens if the player goes to college and suffers a career threatening injury? The same could happen in the NBA but at least they're getting paid for it.
Also, I never agreed with capping players salaries. You're going to tell me a player like DeAndre Jordan should be making the same amount of money LeBron is!? No way! They're limiting them with these max contracts. Another reason I like baseball. If a team wants to spend $300+ million on a contract for one player, let them. It's up to them to figure out how to field the rest of their team and how to spend their money. I just don't agree with telling a player, ok, you can only make this much money. It's insane while the owners and the league are making out like fat cats.
last night...Rockets/Spurs....I kept forgetting which team was which...Rockets had grey volleyball jerseys as the home team...and only way I remembered who they were was because of Harden's beard.
NBA should be ashamed for grossing so much money globally and STILL placing team logos on jerseys in the future.Only justification is greed. And I wonder what kinds of conflicts it will cause with existing endorsements. Some of the Dream Team members famously covered up the corporate logo of the team usa warmups as they got their gold medals because it wasn't the sneaker they wore/endorsed.
Goombah,
I think the lack of college experience has contributed, and that teams no longer apprentice players. John Stockton,Gary Payton...did not start right away...they sat behind vets and had better understanding of the game when they became starters. Now you have guys with maybe 2 years of division 1 experience becoming NBA starters right away, and overall play suffers.
as for your point about reliance on 3 pointers, which I couldn't agree with more, watch this clip where tv show shows Steve Kerr's comments about 3 pointers BEFORE he came a coach....and the footage they added to it.
I didn't. If the Finals are Golden State and Cleveland again I'll watch but I haven't watched any of the playoffs thus far. It just hasn't interested me much.
I saw the last 7-8 minutes at the restaurant we were at. IMO that SA blew that lead & Khawo is hurt, this will not be much of a series. I like Pop, but he's overmatched having two of his stars hurt.
Have you seen enough of the Cavs so far to make a prediction about the Boston series? Do you think Kelly O. is going to try the goon tactics again?
Irish, for a guy who doesn't watch many games, you're doing well with the predictions. I didn't think Celtics were for real.
Have any of you seen the play that injured Leonard for good? I like an respect Coach Pop, but Bruce Bowen was NOTORIOUS for doing the exact same thing, so it's funny to see Pop call out another player for it.
I saw the replays and based on what I saw from SportsCenter this morning, it's looks like LaMarcus Aldridge tried to pull the same thing on Kevin Durant last night.
Have you seen enough of the Cavs so far to make a prediction about the Boston series? Do you think Kelly O. is going to try the goon tactics again?
Irish, for a guy who doesn't watch many games, you're doing well with the predictions. I didn't think Celtics were for real.
Have any of you seen the play that injured Leonard for good? I like an respect Coach Pop, but Bruce Bowen was NOTORIOUS for doing the exact same thing, so it's funny to see Pop call out another player for it.
A healthy Cavs will be a nightmare matchup for Boston. Thomas is their biggest threat and I think Cavs will contain him. The scary thing for opponents is Smith & Kyrie have not really found their shot yet.
Yes I am very concerned about Boston thuggery especially in Game 2. Olynk never was adequately punished IMO for what he did to Love two years ago.
Irish, Yeah L.A. did that on purpose.Spurs are a class organization 99% of the time, and because of that...press gives them a pass for the dirty stuff. Aldridge has some kind of heart condition and actually shouldn't still be playing, so I kind of cringe when I see him on the floor. He's not a prime time player though, even when he was healthy...and the frustration of not being able to live up to expectations lead him to do goon tactics.
Goombah, I agree with you....that we haven't even seen the Cavs running on all cylinders. If Love continues to show up....they can sweep Boston. I think there will be some type of ugly fan incident in Bean town if the Cavs get up by a lot early.
Weird seeing Deron Williams come off the bench. He fell off as a player, but I think he's a natural pg...would like to see him and KI on floor together
Really depressing that Kawhi got injured, pretty much guaranteed to be Cavs-Warriors 3 now. I'm a Celtics fan so would of course prefer them to make the Finals but i know they have no chance unless injuries were to suddenly pile up for the Cavs, the Spurs were the only hope for something different.
Oddly this will be the first time the same NBA Finals has happened 3 years in a row. It nearly happened a few times: from 57-61 the Russell Celtics played the Pettit Hawks four times in five years but the Lakers played the Celtics in the middle of that to stop three in a row. Then directly after that the Celtics played the Baylor/West Lakers four times in five years yet again the Celtics played the Wilt Warriors in the middle of that. Then in the 80s the Celtics played the Lakers three times in four years from 84-87 with the Rockets stopping three in a row in 86. So this has been the most repetitive time in NBA history pretty much. Hopefully i'm jumping the gun and either the Celtics or Spurs can somehow pull out the win but i doubt it.
Not been crazy about the playoffs this year, there has been some high quality play/series but it's just felt like it was set on a path and barely deviated from it; the Rockets Game 1 against the Spurs got me excited but then that fizzled out...meh. It's a shame as i thought the regular season was very good.
It's funny. If two 16-0 teams in different conferences were to enter the NFL playoffs, it would make the whole postseason electric with the possibility of them meeting in the Super Bowl OR the possibility of a massive upset. Yet the opposite is happening in the NBA - the two most dominant teams (regardless of record) in their likely clash in the finals is making the road to the finals anti-climatic. Difference between single elimination vs best-of-seven.
Good comeback by the Celtics, but if the NBA doesn't GTFOH with the bad refs trying to extend the series....I'm gonna go nuts.
During the comeback,Bron drove the rim multiple times to force refs to call the obvious fouls...refs want another game check for their buddies.....so they swallowed their whistles.
Goombah, I agree with you....that we haven't even seen the Cavs running on all cylinders. If Love continues to show up....they can sweep Boston. I think there will be some type of ugly fan incident in Bean town if the Cavs get up by a lot early.
Weird seeing Deron Williams come off the bench. He fell off as a player, but I think he's a natural pg...would like to see him and KI on floor together
I was at the Q for the watch party of Friday's game. I've never seen anything like that. Everything the Cavs shot went in and nothing Boston shot went in. It looked like an 8th grade team playing the 3rd grade intermural team.
The Cavs played down to the level of their competition much of the year. Game 3 was an example of that and it cost them a very winnable game at home. The Cavs did not run offense all that much and relied too heavily on the three pointer. But as Getthesenets said, LeBron drove expecting to be fouled and there were some no calls. No excuse to blow a 20 point lead at home when your opposition is minus its best player, regardless of refs.
Deron Williams and Irving will likely never be on the floor together because of their defensive liabilities. That's why LeBron is in with the 2nd unit, although I'd rather see him get a few more minutes of rest.
I have tickets for Game 4 and had been hoping to see them clinch. But I fully expect the Cavs to take it back to Boston up 3-1. Love has been on fire.
Enjoy the game,Goombah!!! Hopefully Cavs close them out in Boston. For the quest for the ring, I guess the loss was a good thing...wakes the entire team back up.
This was the most of a game I watched of the Cavs during these playoffs. You are ABSOLUTELY right about DWill and KI backcourt,
In fact, you probably laughed when I wrote it, because you know their weaknesses
D. Williams and Irving don't commit on defense. Williams has no excuse because he's not logging major minutes. As for their perimeter defenders....? Shumpert and Smith are STILL making brainlock defensive mistakes in clutch moments. Those guys are decent defensive players who commit,BUT those bad moments must make Cavs fans go crazy.
I agree with your point about the reliance on 3s....that's a league wide problem. So once your shooting touch drops, and you keep firing 3s early in the shot clock ..with no plays called, you open up the door for the other team to creep in the game
When you get a chance....please give us a rundown on what game 4 was like live.
It had the makings of being a Boston blowout. The Cavs came out and played zero defense and had a real tough time making shots. They were getting booed going into the locker room and deservedly so.
I know that this will sound homer-like, but the refs were awful. They called ticky tack fouls and then missed blatant hard fouls. The section I was in went quiet when LBJ drew his 4th foul midway through the 2nd quarter. Only two of his four fouls were legitimate, but then he could have easily been called for a few fouls in the 2nd half. LeBron's size continues to be to his disadvantage as he regularly gets mugged going to the hole.
The Kyrie end of 3rd quarter buzzer beater was the dagger IMO. Irving went down in front of our seats earlier in the 3rd quarter and I thought he blew out his knee. He immediately clutched his leg, so it was a relief to see him get up. KI's drives to the hoop and the English he puts on his shots are incredible.
The atmosphere was great. I had never been to a playoff game this deep into the postseason.
When the Cavs need a bucket...the past two games..Bron lowers his head and drives to the rim..gets hacked by multiple people and refs refuse to call fouls. NBA doesn't want players to flop, but if you don't, the refs aren't forced to call fouls. Lack of foul calls also leads to bad blood and rough play in a series.
Bad officiating and makeup calls and non calls the entire game. On the dunk that Bron missed...when Love threw the pinpoint outlet pass, Al Horford basically crosschecked him.....ref was right there...no call.
*After the game, when Love was talking to TNT crew.....they showed a tweet saying that Kevin Love is the best QB in Cleveland.
I thought it was over when Kyrie went down, and I instantly thought of you in the arena gasping for air. Glad when he got up, and started aggressively driving to the rim. Also glad when they started posting Lebron up on the blocks.
I went 2-0 in round three (14-0 overall). Finals prediction:
-Golden State over Cleveland
I at least hope this is a good series and not a sweep or 5 game series. I'm hoping it goes at least 6 and I'll be happy for Durant if he's able to get his ring. I'd be happy for LeBron and Cleveland too if they went back-to-back.
Irish & Blonde, Let's hope it lives up to the billing. Only competitive series that I noticed was Boston/Wash.
Camarel, That's a good stat about this being the first three-quel NBA finals. I would have lost that bet if somebody told me it hadn't happened before.
Anybody think GSW is at a disadvantage by not having Kerr out there on the floor to make on the fly adjustments and drawing up plays?
I think as the series wears on, Kerr's absence will be notable but not so much initially.
If I was to bet on the series, I would be inclined to wait after Game 1 and then get odds and bet Cleveland. I expect the Warriors to win tonight but for Cleveland to rebound and pull out the series. The key for me is the LeBron-Durant matchup and I expect LeBron to wear him down and figure him out over the course of the series.
The game was close in the first half but Golden State came out too strong in the 3rd and Cleveland played no defense. It seemed to me the layoff affected Cleveland but not Golden State. Cleveland didn't score it's first points of the second half until four minutes into the third quarter, while Golden State was going on a run.
Tristan Thompson was completely outmatched in Game 1. I shut it off at halftime. GS got so many easy uncontested buckets that I knew once they started hitting jumpers the Cavs were done.
Nobody other than Kyrie & LBJ scored for the Cavs. I expected more out of Korver and Love. I think Lu needs to bring in Frye to spell Thompson so that GS has to not bog the middle. Otherwise this series will be over quickly.
Cavs can't do anything with Bron resting, and he can't play the full game.....so I think you might be right,Irish.
However, the pressure is on the Warriors. Tristan played well last game, RJ on KD was a good adjustment..and Kyrie Irving is in full attack mode and GSW has no answers.
And in full deja vu moment....relative of a Warriors player is AGAIN....outright accusing the nba of rigging the game ..this time Draymond Green's mother is doing it.
also let's see if NBA suspends Pachulia for the groin punches.
Cleveland definitely came out more aggressive yesterday, but I don't see Cleveland winning in Oracle Arena. That's one of the toughest places to win in. Golden State does not want to go back to Cleveland for a Game 6. Look for them to strike early and hard like Cleveland did in Game 4.
I was so disgusted after the way Cleveland gave Game 3 away that I did not watch Game 4. Sounds like a horribly officiated game. I did check the score a few times last night and felt that no Cavs lead is safe. I fully expected the Cavs to get blown out in Game 4.
I think Cleveland's approach has been all wrong this series. They should have attempted to slow the game down rather than play a track meet. The Cavs are more physical and that is to their advantage in a slower pace.
I don't expect the Cavs to win Monday, but I'm glad GS didn't make it through the playoffs undefeated. If the Cavs can somehow win 5, then this will go 7.
Lived up to the billing.Cavs fought but were too tired at the end.
gotta cut/waive Shumpert right away.....he's useless out there. JR Smith finally showed up. Korver wilted in the spotlight.Deron Williams is another useless player who made rookie mistakes the entire series.Love showed up half the time, but blew too many open looks.
Lebron is a magician to have carried THIS set of guys into the Finals.
Cavs got nothing from their bench. Refs blew one when KD put a hand on LeBron's face during a dunk. Should've been KD's 3rd foul mid 2nd qtr.
Unless something drastic happens, it's hard to imagine these teams not meeting again next year. This would be terrible for the league as a whole.
I could see Tristan Thompson moved in effort to obtain Paul George or Jimmy Butler. I would also like the Cavs to pursue Wiggins. He has the chance to be the East's version of Khwai Leonard.
Yes. Blatant missed call. How do you get hit in the face on a dunk with no call? Would have had to sit Durant with 3 fouls and DEFINITELY would have altered how the game played out.
Wiggins is who they moved for Love,right? It was a good move at the time because Cavs were making title run and you go with the proven guy over the rook. That's a good comparison to Leoanrd because from what I've seen...Wiggins has to tools to be that kind of all around player.Hope he has heart to go along with that talent,like Leonard does.
Cavs bench players have NO heart...Bron is going to take the blame whether they hit or miss wide open shots and these clowns choke ANYWAY.
Shumpert was in the corner for a wide open three and hit the G.D. side of the backboard.
I think NBA gms have to actually earn their money now. Fans can tell whether teams are just trying to sell game tickets/jerseys or trying to build contenders.Should be a busy summer for the teams that really want to win .
Yes, Love was dealt for Wiggins. I agree that the deal had to be made - always take an All-Star over potential. But Wiggins is coming up on the end of his rookie deal next year. LeBron should recruit the kid hard. Wiggins came out of college as a premier defender and his offense was just a bonus.
Cavs GM Griffin doesn't have a contract. There is serious speculation he won't be back. Not sure if it's Gilbert or if Griffin wants the challenge of building a new team.
Cavs got nothing from their bench this entire series. Korver shrunk, Williams and Shumpert threw up bricks and played no defense, and they kept roster spots for guys like the other D. Williams and James Jones without them seeing any playing time.
If I were Dan Gilbert, I would take the approch that LeBron could bolt after next year. It's time to give him a bench of 10 deep of legitimate players, along with an emphasis on defensive minded players.
The Cavs didn't lose because Golden State hit massive amounts of three pointers but because of the plethora of easy shots. While Klay Thompson struggled most of the postseason scoring, he made up for it with top notch defense.
Just heard on the radio by a long time Republican sports announcer saying that The Golden State Warriors have declined the invite to the White House. I thought the guy was going to be angry, but nope he is a life long fan of the Magics and can not stand Trump in the White House. I would not be surprised if he was pressured to make some type of an apology, but he is from that old school thought of mind and represents his own views. He did say the refs were blind in a couple of the games.
I don't think it would classify as being fired if Griffin leaves. My sense is that he wants (justifiably IMO) to be paid as a top executive. Dan Gilbert prints money, so I would be surprised if it ends up being a standoff about money.
I also think Griffin wants to build a team, which is why he was looking at Atlanta. But they hired a GM, so there's not a lot of jobs out there.
In the past 3 years, the Cavs have gotten player deals done late (Thompson, JR come to mind), so this may be the same thing.
If I were Griffin, I would look for an exit option since this team will have its cupboards bare in 3-5 years when LeBron retires. The "win now" approach has left them with practically no assets.
What moves do you think Cleveland needs to make to get past Golden State next year? In my opinion, they don't have the roster depth that Golden State does. Korver no showed and JR Smith had some good shots but those 2 guys aren't enough in my opinion. I wonder if Cleveland would entertain trading Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony? The Knicks want him gone and Melo wants a chance at a ring. Even if they made the trade straight up, I don't think it'd be enough to beat Golden State in a 7 game series because of Melo's defensive limitations. Been hearing Paul George's name thrown around as well but even with him I still don't believe it'd be enough.
If the Cavs gave up anything more than a #2 pencil for Carmelo, it would be too much. He's a me-first guy who can't play a lick of defense. The only guy on NY I would consider for Love is Porzingas.
I wouldn't give up Love because where do you replace the rebounds he provides? And as a #3 option in the offense, he's still a great scorer vs. 28 teams in the NBA - just not vs. G.S. I would see is Chicago would trade Jimmy Butler or Indiana Paul George in exchange for Tristan Thompson and either Shumpert or J.R. Smith. I would also like to see the Cavs pursue DeMarcus Cousins.
While he didn't have a good season, I will give J.R. a pass this year. He and his wife had a premature baby that was born at one pound. The baby is still fighting, but that has to be a gut wrenching experience for any parent.
How about a crayon for Carmelo? Carmelo is a throwback to the early 80s when high scoring SFs dominated the game. I agree that you cannot win with him....because he's a scorer and that's it.
Good luck to the Cavs GM for getting what he thinks he deserves. The perception is that you take water add Lebron and stir and teams will contend. Cavs' struggles when he first left...and the Heat's struggles once he left seem to point to that, so coaches and GMs who work with him won't get their credit.
I feel for JR and what he's going through.
When the mini scuffle broke out in the last game..there were 3 Jersey guys there ,who all know each other out there talking trash....I wanted JR to smack the fake tough guy West. JR is a guy you want with you when it hits the fan.
Here's a hypothetical for you guys - If you're Cleveland and you have a chance to trade Love for an unnamed player who will make you a weaker team against most opponents but will make you match up better specifically against Golden State, do you make the trade? (I'll ignore specific debate about whos and hows for now)
I like Love's skill set..but this was the only year that GSW were vulnerable..either to growing pains of adding superstar to team of stars or to the Spurs beating them or wearing them out in WCF. Parker and Ginobili are finished or on last legs...so as great as Leonard is..Spurs aren't serious contenders anymore.
GSW have to be favorites going into the next few seasons.
I think with a weaker Eastern Conference, you'd have to pull off the trade. Might take you more games to win the berth to finals but as constructed now, no team can match up with the Warriors.
I like Love's skill set..but this was the only year that GSW were vulnerable..either to growing pains of adding superstar to team of stars or to the Spurs beating them or wearing them out in WCF. Parker and Ginobili are finished or on last legs...so as great as Leonard is..Spurs aren't serious contenders anymore.
GSW have to be favorites going into the next few seasons.
I think with a weaker Eastern Conference, you'd have to pull off the trade. Might take you more games to win the berth to finals but as constructed now, no team can match up with the Warriors.
I would have to agree for the most part, Gets. I think GS has to be the favorite next year, but I think they still have some vulnearability and the league is too fluid to project multiple years out. Consider that Curry is fragile - he's had ankle and knee issues; Durant hasn't exactly been the model of health over the past 5 years; Kerr's status as coach is iffy at best; and I think Klay Thompson will be doing a lot more pouting as his numbers continue to decline. Then throw in that they'll lose Igudola and Livingston this offseason.
I agree, Gets, that the Spurs are on the decline. But as long as they have Popovich, they are a threat. Even though I know you criticize him, Aldridge is still a Top 25 player. If they land Chris Paul to replace Parker, then they could be right back in the thick of things.
If the Cavs gave up anything more than a #2 pencil for Carmelo, it would be too much. He's a me-first guy who can't play a lick of defense. The only guy on NY I would consider for Love is Porzingas.
I wouldn't give up Love because where do you replace the rebounds he provides? And as a #3 option in the offense, he's still a great scorer vs. 28 teams in the NBA - just not vs. G.S. I would see is Chicago would trade Jimmy Butler or Indiana Paul George in exchange for Tristan Thompson and either Shumpert or J.R. Smith. I would also like to see the Cavs pursue DeMarcus Cousins.
While he didn't have a good season, I will give J.R. a pass this year. He and his wife had a premature baby that was born at one pound. The baby is still fighting, but that has to be a gut wrenching experience for any parent.
No way the Knicks would trade Porzingas. Melo wants out of New York and New York wants him gone so they can focus and build around Porzingas. Melo wouldn't give you any D, but he can spread the floor and be a #3 option for them. Hang around the 3 point line and hit 3's. I personally believe Melo would have a greater impact on the team than Jimmy Butler. George might be the best option but even with him, I still don't feel that's enough to overtake Golden State.
[quote=getthesenets] Then throw in that they'll lose Igudola and Livingston this offseason.
I'm hearing Durant is going to take less money so Golden State can resign these guys and Durant will make up the difference on the next contract. He seems committed to wanting to continue to win and keep this team together. I'll give him that that he's not going to cry about a few million dollars and would rather keep the team together than grabbing as much money he can for himself.
I would have to agree for the most part, Gets. I think GS has to be the favorite next year, but I think they still have some vulnearability and the league is too fluid to project multiple years out. Consider that Curry is fragile - he's had ankle and knee issues; Durant hasn't exactly been the model of health over the past 5 years; Kerr's status as coach is iffy at best; and I think Klay Thompson will be doing a lot more pouting as his numbers continue to decline. Then throw in that they'll lose Igudola and Livingston this offseason.
I agree, Gets, that the Spurs are on the decline. But as long as they have Popovich, they are a threat. Even though I know you criticize him, Aldridge is still a Top 25 player. If they land Chris Paul to replace Parker, then they could be right back in the thick of things.
I definitely see your points...especially about Klay....teamwork,winning rings,etc is good but a young elite 2 way player in his prime is going to be the hardest guy to keep happy. When a team wins....other teams can generally poach their talent by offering obscene amounts of money and/or chance to showcase your talents fully. I think Iggy and SL, basically journeymen at this point who've found and perfected their niche roles in the league are gonna be harder to poach. They won't find replacements for those guys if they do leave.They fit the system perfectly. I think playing together is going to lessen chance of Steph of KD injuring their frail injury prone bodies. They blow people out of the gym early in games so less wear and tear during reg. season.
I have to agree with you about Pop/Spurs....he drafts and develops players as well as anybody in the league. Those young guys on their bench came into games against GSW with NO FEAR, so they are true Spurs. Aldridge is scared of the big moment. He,Carmelo, and Love to an extent are/were stats compilers. They played for years in low pressure situations and scored a lot of points and got lots of boards...but in high stakes moments they fold. Goombah, do you remember on Bron's first go round with Cavs....when they got Antawn Jamison ? That guy was scared in the playoffs and helped Lebron's decision to leave. LA is gonna get points/boards but even though he's bigger and better than ANY front court player that GSW has...he was a non factor once KL got hurt.
No way the Knicks would trade Porzingas. Melo wants out of New York and New York wants him gone so they can focus and build around Porzingas. Melo wouldn't give you any D, but he can spread the floor and be a #3 option for them. Hang around the 3 point line and hit 3's. I personally believe Melo would have a greater impact on the team than Jimmy Butler. George might be the best option but even with him, I still don't feel that's enough to overtake Golden State.
Irish,
For a guy with as much offensive talent as Melo, he's very limited playing off the ball.I don't think he could be a spot up shooter. He's not afraid to go to the post, so that could help the Cavs but you can't win with Melo.He's a high volume scorer and that's it.
I think the Cavs should get some young swing men who are defense minded and not try to land a big name offensive star. They need more depth and for Bron to be able to rest on defense. They also need a post presence.
No way the Knicks would trade Porzingas. Melo wants out of New York and New York wants him gone so they can focus and build around Porzingas.
I understand that completely. I just meant that Porzingas is the only Knick worth anything. I wouldn't trade him either. Carmelo is the albatross around the Knicks, having taken the throne from Isaish Thomas running the organization into the ground.
Originally Posted By: getthesenets
I think Iggy and SL, basically journeymen at this point who've found and perfected their niche roles in the league are gonna be harder to poach. They won't find replacements for those guys if they do leave.They fit the system perfectly. I think playing together is going to lessen chance of Steph of KD injuring their frail injury prone bodies. They blow people out of the gym early in games so less wear and tear during reg. season.
I have to agree with you about Pop/Spurs....he drafts and develops players as well as anybody in the league. Those young guys on their bench came into games against GSW with NO FEAR, so they are true Spurs. Aldridge is scared of the big moment. He,Carmelo, and Love to an extent are/were stats compilers. They played for years in low pressure situations and scored a lot of points and got lots of boards...but in high stakes moments they fold. Goombah, do you remember on Bron's first go round with Cavs....when they got Antawn Jamison ? That guy was scared in the playoffs and helped Lebron's decision to leave. LA is gonna get points/boards but even though he's bigger and better than ANY front court player that GSW has...he was a non factor once KL got hurt.
I had forgotten Antwan Jamison, which is why nothing memorable is in my mind about his time here. He was part of a bad supporting cast: an overweight, last-legs Shaq; Delonte West; Drew Gooden; Mo Williams; Wally Szerbiak. No wonder LeBron never won prior to 2010.
In re: GS, I thought I read that the contracts for Iggy & Livingston were up. Since they need to sign Curry to the max, they won't have enough $$ to pay their bench guys.
For a guy with as much offensive talent as Melo, he's very limited playing off the ball.I don't think he could be a spot up shooter. He's not afraid to go to the post, so that could help the Cavs but you can't win with Melo.He's a high volume scorer and that's it.
I disagree. Melo was amazing in the last Olympics (and at times, carried that team) as a spot up 3 point shooter. He won't like getting the limited number of touches he may, but, he'd get his wish to compete for a ring.
In re: GS, I thought I read that the contracts for Iggy & Livingston were up. Since they need to sign Curry to the max, they won't have enough $$ to pay their bench guys.
Durant is going to take less money so Golden State has money leftover to sign Livingston and Iguodala. He wants to keep the team together and continue to win. The money for him will be made up in the next contract after next season.
I forgot who was on the roster back then, wow. All these years I blamed Jamison for Cavs losing in playoffs that year. Those names you mentioned sounds like the roster that Iverson carried to the Finals before.
How many more years do you see Bron playing? How many more years as a top tier player?and do you see him bolting again or retiring as a Cav?
Irish, I caught some Olympic games over the years, and I do remember Melo dominating . If he's the leading scorer on Team usa, he was getting a lot of touches in addition to the spot up 3s.It will hard to transition into being a 3 point specialist. He's talented and a mismatch for any defender but I'll have to see him buy into team basketball to believe it.
Don't get me wrong, the ball will definitely stop with Melo. I just think with LeBron or Kyrie driving to the basket, they can force the defense to collapse, thus creating open 3's for Melo.
I don't believe LeBron is leaving Cleveland. A coworker of mine thinks he may and I know he wants to win but he already left Cleveland once and was vilified for it. True he's brought them a title, but I just don't see him leaving. He wants to stay there and win. He'll have a talk with Gilbert about adding more pieces (similar to what he did before the trade deadline). Those words are ringing true now that he needed more play makers on his team.
How about Melo coming off the bench for instant offense? Do you go as far back as the bad boy Pistons? Vinnie Johnson was the designated scorer on the second team and the role suited him well.
I think you can extend Bron's peak and career by bringing in a quality backup. Melo isn't Bron but he can damn sure score points.....so Bron can actually take a break.
As far as Bron leaving, you might be right. This offseason, we will see how serious the Cavs are about winning another title. They should be able to poach some stars from the West who know they have NO CHANCE to win the WCF. Over the past 3 years....all types of trade rumors surface about Cleveland. Goombah usually has to come in and give us the actual rundown because espn and national sports outlets ALWAYS get it wrong.
I never thought about him coming off the bench. Maybe that role will suit him then? He'll obviously play fewer minutes but he could take the game over when LeBron is resting. I guess it'll just be up to Carmelo how badly he wants to win if he's willing to that arrangement. But they still need someone to start because LeBron and Kyrie aren't going to do it on their own.
I wonder if Dwayne Wade would come to Cleveland as well? I thought he had an opt out after his first year? I would have him come off of the bench. Save his minutes and he's a scorer as well (but definitely on the downside of his career).
How many more years do you see Bron playing? How many more years as a top tier player?and do you see him bolting again or retiring as a Cav?
Irish, I caught some Olympic games over the years, and I do remember Melo dominating . If he's the leading scorer on Team usa, he was getting a lot of touches in addition to the spot up 3s.It will hard to transition into being a 3 point specialist. He's talented and a mismatch for any defender but I'll have to see him buy into team basketball to believe it.
I see LeBron trying to play until his oldest enters the NBA. So about 4-5 more years, unless LBJ experiences a sharp decline.
I could see LeBron leaving after next year. Not highly likely, but definitely a possibility. He might look at the Cavs as he did the Heat in 2014 - old and with limited financial options. The one thing the Cavs have in their favor is Kryie & Thompspon are both still young. Off the court, LeBron's oldest is starting high school within the next 2 years, so that might sway him to stay in Cleveland.
I hadn't considered Melo as a backup option. That's intriguing.
Irish - I don't see Wade coming to Cleveland. He wasn't willing to play for less last year and signed with Chicago. I think Wade is content with 3 rings and now wants to play where he grew up.
interesting points, especially about Lebron wanting stability for his family. I see it like, if Bron never plays again....he is stamped, certified, as a winner and an alltime great.The greatest ever at his position. His best performance was the first time he collided with GSW with Kyrie gone after first game and Love out for entire Finals. Literally almost willed his team to a ring without the second and third scoring options.
Harder sales pitch for team trying to land his services/talents. Only thing they could offer is better weather.
Irish,
I laughed it off when I first heard it, but I keep hearing that rumor. It's stupid because you can definitely build a team around KP. Power struggle between Phil Jackson and KP's management. Here's the thing, if you had a competent front office...you might pull the trigger if some fool GM offers you multiple years worth of picks. But trading a budding star player (who can ACTUALLY play) for 10 years worth of top picks won't mean anything if you have the current front office, they'd find a way to F it up.
They've been finding a way to F it up. Since 2000 the Knicks have won ONE playoff series. In 17 years, they've won one! And then they draft Frank Ntilikina from France? Who!? They pass up on Dennis Smith, Zach Collins, Malik Monk, among others. What are they doing there?
They've been finding a way to F it up. Since 2000 the Knicks have won ONE playoff series. In 17 years, they've won one! And then they draft Frank Ntilikina from France? Who!? They pass up on Dennis Smith, Zach Collins, Malik Monk, among others. What are they doing there?
They are trying to one-up the Chicago Bulls on who can fuck up the most, and still make money out of it. Both franchises and fans are going to suffer for years to come.
interesting points, especially about Lebron wanting stability for his family. I see it like, if Bron never plays again....he is stamped, certified, as a winner and an alltime great.The greatest ever at his position. His best performance was the first time he collided with GSW with Kyrie gone after first game and Love out for entire Finals. Literally almost willed his team to a ring without the second and third scoring options.
Harder sales pitch for team trying to land his services/talents. Only thing they could offer is better weather.
Barely a week later and all that is off the table. It would not surprise me in the least to see LeBron leave after next season now that Gilbert has fired Griffin. And the longer Chauncey Billups contemplates, the less likely he will sign on to be Cavs president.
In 12 years, Gilbert is on his 4th GM and I've lost track of how many coaches. Mike Brown (twice), Byron Scott, David Blatt, and Ty Lue. I'm sure Lue's days are numbered given Gilbert's past history.
You know all this time,I thought Gilbert was a born and bred Cleveland guy...or at least an Ohio guy. The public letter to Lebron was classless but I thought it came from a native son who was genuinely hurt by the "Decision". Gilbert is a clown.
I didn't know there was that much turnover in the front office.Franchise is in disarray. Had Lebron not had a change of heart, Gilbert would have run the Cavs into the ground.
He's the NBA version of NFL team owner,Dan Snyder.
You know all this time,I thought Gilbert was a born and bred Cleveland guy...or at least an Ohio guy. The public letter to Lebron was classless but I thought it came from a native son who was genuinely hurt by the "Decision". Gilbert is a clown.
I didn't know there was that much turnover in the front office.Franchise is in disarray. Had Lebron not had a change of heart, Gilbert would have run the Cavs into the ground.
He's the NBA version of NFL team owner,Dan Snyder.
I think Gilbert is from Detroit. I'm positive that LeBron being from here is the only reason he returned. Otherwise he would have stuck it to Gilbert in 2014.
I think Gilbert is from Detroit. I'm positive that LeBron being from here is the only reason he returned. Otherwise he would have stuck it to Gilbert in 2014.
Goombah,
I saw some type of webseries that Lebron shot in a barbershop...with his business associates(who Phil Jackson called a posse) and Draymond Green of all people. He said that his mother and his wife told him NOT to return to Cleveland because of the bush league antics that Gilbert pulled, but he wanted to go back and win there.
Like you pointed out about Billups not accepting the GM offer yet, the bad business practices that Gilbert uses are coming back to bite him. I don't recall a guy with no front office experience turning down or dragging his feet about a GM job offer.
Until you pointed it out, I didn't think about the coach turnover there either.I thought the David Blatt firing was a one off.Mike Brown coaches there twice? Reminds me of when George Steinbrenner would hire and fire manager Billy Martin as often as he changed his socks.
Are the sports reporters and media going after Gilbert hard? sports people in NYC metro area go hard after coaches,gms, owners and try to make them accountable at least.
I think Gilbert is from Detroit. I'm positive that LeBron being from here is the only reason he returned. Otherwise he would have stuck it to Gilbert in 2014.
Goombah,
I saw some type of webseries that Lebron shot in a barbershop...with his business associates(who Phil Jackson called a posse) and Draymond Green of all people. He said that his mother and his wife told him NOT to return to Cleveland because of the bush league antics that Gilbert pulled, but he wanted to go back and win there.
Like you pointed out about Billups not accepting the GM offer yet, the bad business practices that Gilbert uses are coming back to bite him. I don't recall a guy with no front office experience turning down or dragging his feet about a GM job offer.
Until you pointed it out, I didn't think about the coach turnover there either.I thought the David Blatt firing was a one off.Mike Brown coaches there twice? Reminds me of when George Steinbrenner would hire and fire manager Billy Martin as often as he changed his socks.
Are the sports reporters and media going after Gilbert hard? sports people in NYC metro area go hard after coaches,gms, owners and try to make them accountable at least.
That's funny you mention Steinbrenner. That's exactly what I thought of, although Mike Brown would have to be hired/fired a few more times.
Chris Broussard was on the local show this morning. He insists that Billups to the Cavs is a done deal, but that he's recruiting players since he's not officially under contract. I'm not sure I buy that, but it's an interesting possibility.
The local media seems to be anti-Gilbert by about a 65-35 margin. Most agree that the timing of firing Griffin (just before the draft and 2 weeks before FA begins) was poor. They also say that Gilbert does not value a GM.
Gilbert does get a pass for being the only Cleveland owner to win a title. But I've heard it said many times that if LeBron was not from here, Gilbert would be seen in a worse light than Browns owner Jimmy Haslam. I'm not sure that is even possible.
Dude just wrote in the shoutbox that Phil Jackson was FIRED!!!!
First good move they've made since drafting Porzingis. I love Phil, but the results were what they were. According to his estranged wife, Melo wants to stay in New York to be close to his son. Now that Phil and the triangle are gone, I don't see him going anywhere until his contract expires in 2 years. He wants to win in New York. I'm just wondering, is the Phil firing something that couldn't have been done BEFORE the draft!?
This is gonna be an active thread this summer.....
Teams cannot just stand still and expect to beat GSW so it begins
Chris Paul traded to Houston.
Yes, it'll be an interesting offseason but I'm not worried about Houston. Paul and Harden aren't enough to get that team through Golden State. Plus, I think Paul's just a rental and will be gone next offseason when he's a free agent.
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My favorite player was Dr. J. Other than 1983, Boston usually had the 76ers number. I think 1983 was the last year that the NBA Finals were shown on a delay. Hard to imagine now.
