I think its time to start a new thread for the 2014 season. We carried over the 2013 thread with a few entries, but what the heck...the days are noticeably getting longer, they are tossing balls in Florida and Arizona,A-Rod is out of the picture (thank God), the Yankees got Tanaka and players have been flip-floppin' teams and Jeter announced his retirement. With participants dwindling on the BB, I think we can fold the Yankee thread into this one. What say, PLAYBALL!
Let's start with discussion that came from yesterday's announcement that Derek Jeter will retire after this year. No baseball fan can dispute that Jeter will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. But it's interesting to see where his place will be in history.
I think we can discuss where Jeter fits in within the past 25-30 years and all-time. Part of my argument is prompted by what I heard on ESPN this morning and it was an interesting conversation. Jeter has been a very good fielding shortstop, much like Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel, Barry Larkin, and Cal Ripken. But Jeter was not just a defensive wizard like Smith & Vizquel because Jeter was anything but an offensive liability. It was his offensive production that made him great. So in that regard, he has similarities to Larkin & Ripken. Going back further into the 70s and 80s, Jeter can be compared to Robin Yount.
I think what set Jeter apart from everyone but Yount was the clutch hitting, particularly in the playoffs. Jeter's numbers benefited from the expanded playoff formats, whereas Yount played only when there was a 5 game ALCS and the World Series. And Yount's Brewer teams came nowhere near the level of the supporting cast Jeter has enjoyed with the Yankees.
I hope Jeter is healthy enough to play a full final season. I'd like to see him go out strongly rather than end his career due to injury.
I agree, Goombah. I think the other two things that set Jeter apart were his complete commitment to the sport. When he played, he always gave 100%. The other is the absolute joy he brings to every game. He truly loves baseball, and that was conveyed in every single game.
Add that to some of this legendary plays, like the Mr. November play, the Dive and the Flip, and you have to agree that he belongs in the history books.
If you were to define Jeter's career by one accomplishment I think it would be getting his 3,000 hit with a home run and going 5 for 5 that day. As a fan, Jeter made watching Yankee baseball enjoyable. He arguably had more intangibles than any player of his era.
Add that to some of this legendary plays, like the Mr. November play, the Dive and the Flip, and you have to agree that he belongs in the history books.
It's Jeter's "bad luck" to be a Yankee. He doesn't even crack the "Top Four" of "Greatest Yankees" (because of their rich history of great players). But who would? (after Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle)
If you were to define Jeter's career by one accomplishment I think it would be getting his 3,000 hit with a home run and going 5 for 5 that day. As a fan, Jeter made watching Yankee baseball enjoyable. He arguably had more intangibles than any player of his era.
That's the thing - he has several career defining moments. For me, it's the flip play against Oakland in the playoffs. It was a play that you can't possibly plan for and must possess true baseball instincts to accomplish.
I also respect Jeter's humility. I think his approach to the game was always one of understanding that no players is bigger than the sport. It was a pleasant contrast when playing next to the most arrogant and self-centered player in recent memory.
IMO, the flip play was so amazing because Jeter quite literally appears out of nowhere to flip the ball to Posada.
And although they lost that World Series to Arizona, I still love the midnight hit on what had just become November 1, 2001. It was wonderfully healing for people from NY at that time, to have something to distract us from what had just happened to our city.
He's going to settle down with a nice girl, have 12 kids and gain 100 lbs. Probably have some cooking product....like the George Foreman Grill. The Jeter Tub 'O Ice Cream.
Mike Trout will likely renegotiate his contract in March. Word is that can possibly have the richest contract ever - $300 million. Last year he made $500,000.
When he is 35 the Yankees will sign him to a 10 year deal worth $78 billion.
He's going to settle down with a nice girl, have 12 kids and gain 100 lbs. Probably have some cooking product....like the George Foreman Grill. The Jeter Tub 'O Ice Cream.
Nah, he's like Tommy from Goodfellas. Jeter settles down with a nice one every night and then goes to his mom's for a late night dinner with his buddies.
Mike Trout will likely renegotiate his contract in March. Word is that can possibly have the richest contract ever - $300 million. Last year he made $500,000.
When he is 35 the Yankees will sign him to a 10 year deal worth $78 billion.
When does Trout test the free agent market? It will be really interesting when he does.
Mike Trout will likely renegotiate his contract in March. Word is that can possibly have the richest contract ever - $300 million. Last year he made $500,000.
When he is 35 the Yankees will sign him to a 10 year deal worth $78 billion.
When does Trout test the free agent market? It will be really interesting when he does.
Trout still has 3 years left on his original deal. He just broke into the majors in 2011 and won AL Rookie of the Year in 2012.
I prefer that he sign with the Yankees no earlier than age 38.
Trout is a good player to sign to a 10-year deal due to his age but can we realistically say that any 10-year deals have worked out? The A-Rod Texas deal was insane for the amount of money and the time it was signed in (I'm sure they could have gotten him for a lot less money) and his last deal with the Yankees is the worse in baseball history. Pujols is looking like he's going to be overtaking that however with his 2 poor years with the Angels and Cano's numbers are going to go way down in SafeCo Field (also he'll be 41 when it expires).
If Trout does get 10 years and it doesn't work out (due to injuries, a decline in his stats, etc) hopefully teams will stop handing out those types of deals because they just don't work out. It's a very long time to guarantee money to any player.
Honestly, I'm surprised Ubaldo Jimenez and Ervin Santana haven't signed yet. I think the hold up is over a team losing a draft pick more than the money. They are good pitchers - not great but not scrubs either.
Honestly, I'm surprised Ubaldo Jimenez and Ervin Santana haven't signed yet. I think the hold up is over a team losing a draft pick more than the money. They are good pitchers - not great but not scrubs either.
Jimenez scares off potential suitors because of his inconsistency. The Indians traded to get him and thought they were getting the player who started the All-Star Game as a member of the Rockies. Then he came to the AL and was consistently inconsistent for the next 2.5 years. It wasn't until after the 2013 All-Star break that Jimenez really excelled. Without him, the Indians would not have gone on the tear they needed to make the postseason.
But if he wants 4 or more years at 12-13 million, he will not get it. He needs to recalibrate his salary expectations or sign a 1 year deal and prove that the second half of last season was no fluke. His mechanics have been smoothed out with the arrival of Francona and pitching coach Mickey Calloway.
I agree. Both pitchers need to come down in their salary demands. And I absolutely agree that Jimenez has been inconsistent during his entire time with the Indians with the exception of after the 2013 All-Star break. If I were him, I'd sign a 1-year deal, prove that last year wasn't a fluke and get a better deal next offseason.
Santana's likewise been inconsistent. His ERA will either be over 5.00 or under 3.50. Too all over the place. I'm just saying I'm surprised that they haven't taken what's been offered to them already (as I'm sure they've had contract offers made). I think they're going to get a deal similar to Matt Garza or less. They're not gonna get even half of what Tanaka got so if they think they're going to, they need to reevaluate it.
Trout is a good player to sign to a 10-year deal due to his age but can we realistically say that any 10-year deals have worked out? The A-Rod Texas deal was insane for the amount of money and the time it was signed in (I'm sure they could have gotten him for a lot less money) and his last deal with the Yankees is the worse in baseball history. Pujols is looking like he's going to be overtaking that however with his 2 poor years with the Angels and Cano's numbers are going to go way down in SafeCo Field (also he'll be 41 when it expires).
If Trout does get 10 years and it doesn't work out (due to injuries, a decline in his stats, etc) hopefully teams will stop handing out those types of deals because they just don't work out. It's a very long time to guarantee money to any player.
Honestly, I'm surprised Ubaldo Jimenez and Ervin Santana haven't signed yet. I think the hold up is over a team losing a draft pick more than the money. They are good pitchers - not great but not scrubs either.
I really wonder with these teams giving out those really long term contracts. The most a team should give is 7 years, especially for players like A-rod and Pujols who would decline after year 4 or 5 of their deal.
It's free agency: you always pay for past and not future performance. Mike Trout may be the exception depending on when they ink the deal (because the assumption is he'll continue to produce at or near where he has the past 2 years). I've heard it could be upwards of $300 million which is absolutely INSANE for any one player!
It's free agency: you always pay for past and not future performance. Mike Trout may be the exception depending on when they ink the deal (because the assumption is he'll continue to produce at or near where he has the past 2 years). I've heard it could be upwards of $300 million which is absolutely INSANE for any one player!
I know and understand. Just 10 years for the guys like A-rod or Pujols who will pass the age of 40 when that contract is almost up. It's more understandable with Trout, and I hope he has a really great future.
My apologies SB. Around this time of year we get that cabin fever. We're jealous of Sweeney Murti at Spring Training. You hate the snow, I hate the rain. We are longing for the smell of spring; longer days; warm sun. I'll be nice.
I don't think they'll make the playoffs this year again however. They lost AJ Burnett and didn't add anybody. I'm predicting the Giants and Nationals to have turnaround years.
Pirates have no need to add. They are young and most of their roster is improving with experience. Their pitching staff will be as good and they are loaded on the farm. If they need a hitter or two before the deadline, they are in the best position to get the pick of the litter.
The Reds and Cardinals will be tough, but the Pirates are young, talented and seasoned as they've now proven they can win consistently in the stretch run.
The Phillies picked up Burnett, who wouldn't have been a frontline starter for the Bucs.
Pirates have no need to add. They are young and most of their roster is improving with experience. Their pitching staff will be as good and they are loaded on the farm. If they need a hitter or two before the deadline, they are in the best position to get the pick of the litter.
I plan on seeing the Pirates at least twice this summer. Once at their wonderful ballpark and once at Wrigley Field. This will be be my first trip to the historic Cubs home stadium and I am really looking forward to it.
Pirates have no need to add. They are young and most of their roster is improving with experience. Their pitching staff will be as good and they are loaded on the farm. If they need a hitter or two before the deadline, they are in the best position to get the pick of the litter.
I plan on seeing the Pirates at least twice this summer. Once at their wonderful ballpark and once at Wrigley Field. This will be be my first trip to the historic Cubs home stadium and I am really looking forward to it.
Two outstanding parks. PNC Park in Pittsburgh is the finest park, in which I've ever seen a game. I try to catch a game there when the Phillies are in town.
Not at all. I definitely expect the Yankees to have a turn around year. They won 85 games last year and were in the running for a playoff spot until the last few games of the season. This was a roster riddled with injuries to Jeter, Teixiera, Granderson and A-Rod (not to mention the worst season of CC Sabathia's career).
I definitely expect CC to bounce back. I'm not sure how many games Jeter will play but I expect Teixiera to be around longer than 15 games. Yes they lost Cano but don't forget they added McCann, Ellsbury and Beltran (not to mention Mashahiro Tanaka). I don't believe it's far fetched at all to say they can make a run at the AL East crown, despite what the "experts" say.
Toronto's going to be on the bottom looking up, followed by Baltimore. I would have put Tampa as a playoff team but I believe they're going to trade David Price before the July trade deadline and they just lost their closer to the Mariners (plus their achilles heal - offense - will continue to give them problems until they can better protect Myers and Longoria).
For his final year, Jeter will bat .350, hit 25 HRs, steal 24 bases, get 215 hits, fielding pct. .996, win MVP, drive in 3 winning runs in the World Series; after retirement he will marry Miss Universe then be elected President in 2016 running on a new party - The Yankee Party! Oh, Yeah!
For his final year, Jeter will bat .350, hit 25 HRs, steal 24 bases, get 215 hits, fielding pct. .996, win MVP, drive in 3 winning runs in the World Series; after retirement he will marry Miss Universe then be elected President in 2016 running on a new party - The Yankee Party! Oh, Yeah!
In the alternative perhaps we should be hoping that he's still walking on two feet by August.
On a bad day Jeter is better than any of those wimpy Phillies on their best day, especially that pseudo-short,stop crying, J-Roll. Thank God Jeter doesn't need one of those asinine pseudonyms. He is just JETER. (You know I love you Kly).
Kly, What's your feel on the Fillies? They are 5 and 12 with the lowest amount of runs scored. Does Sandberg have enough talent to work with?
This team should only win 75 games, tops. Hamels should be ready in a few weeks, and with Cliff Lee they should be the bright spot. They have a few young hot prospects and a couple of promising young players from last season, but they'll find it tough to compete with the Braves (The New England Patriots of MLB) and the Nationals. There's still a crack of the whip left in the aging veterans, but not enough to win consistently over 162 games.
I like Sandberg a lot. There will be no complacency on the team, and the p[layers, other than Rollins, have responded well to him.
Kly, What's your feel on the Fillies? They are 5 and 12 with the lowest amount of runs scored. Does Sandberg have enough talent to work with?
This team should only win 75 games, tops. Hamels should be ready in a few weeks, and with Cliff Lee they should be the bright spot. They have a few young hot prospects and a couple of promising young players from last season, but they'll find it tough to compete with the Braves (The New England Patriots of MLB) and the Nationals. There's still a crack of the whip left in the aging veterans, but not enough to win consistently over 162 games.
I like Sandberg a lot. There will be no complacency on the team, and the p[layers, other than Rollins, have responded well to him.
Hamels should have been traded. He's getting paid a lot, he's a whiner, prone to get injured, and doesn't act as a team player..remember how childish he acted in that one game
So the Yankees have made it official and made Michael Pineda the 5th starter for the rotation. A lot of people seem to be counting the Yankees out this year but my only concern at this point is the bullpen. The rotation will feature Sabathia, Kuroda, Nova, Tanaka and Pineda (who will be on an innings limits). Plus there's Phelps, Warren and Nuno waiting in the wings should an injury occur. The offense beefed up with the additions of Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran (not to mention the returns of Jeter and Teixeira).
My oldest son is a junior business and finance major in college, and completed a project in a statistics class involving run variations in major league baseball. Part of his findings was that 89% of any team's runs can be predicted strictly by OPS, and that batting averagealone did not bear a significant relationship to runs. He also used OPS and three other factors to determine a team's runs to 94%.
There was one team that habitually scores a much larger number of runs each season than their OPS would suggest: the St. Louis Cardinals. A large part of this is because they tend to do better than the rest of baseball in one crucially important, but often overlooked statistic: BA with runners in scoring position. This is not a random stat determined by luck. Rather the Cardinals have a pattern, my son found, of frequently getting a batter to first base when that base is open with other runners on second and/or third. There is a statistically better chance of a batter driving in a run with a runner in scoring position when first base is occupied.
The paper also found that base stealing for most teams produces a negligible effect on overall runs as the average SB percentage around the league makes the stat a wash.
Anyway, my son was an intern last year for the Pittsburgh Penguin farm team and he discussed his project several times with people in the office. He got a call from a friend that a member of the Pirates front office (a friend of the guys with the Penguins) was in town and asked to talk to my son and look over his paper, which he did. A few days later they called and offered him money...not for the report, but for his agreement only not to publish it or share it with anybody for three years.
Wow, interesting stuff klydon! I know he can't but I'd be interested in reading it when he's able to.
He didn't accept the money yet. I saw the report last year, but it didn't include anything about the new stat.
He will likely work something out with them, but they did invite him to meet some of the people in their business and statistics departments and watch a game this summer from the owner's box. I asked him if they'd let him bring a guest, namely me, and he said they probably would, but added, "But, Dad, I think I should do this alone."
Hearing him say that gave me more happiness than going to a ball game.
Very nifty Kly. BTW, what is OPS? Stats can be intriguing sometimes, but NOT the stupid stats that broadcasters throw out, "he's batting .325 with runners on second in the first 5 innings of a day game when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing in from right field if he's wearing Nike socks." And what is worse when they cite a record of one team against another for the past X years, e.g. "for the past ten years the Yankees have a .672 winning percentage against the Orioles." Statistically, that number has no relevance to what will happen that day.
So the Detroit Tigers have extended Miguel Cabrera to a 10-year contract worth $292 million with 2 vesting options after that worth $30 million each (meaning it could push the total to $352 million).
While, I'm not going to argue Miguel Cabrera is one of the two best players in the game (along with Mike Trout), he's 30 years old, doesn't play good defense or run particularly well. Once he stops hitting, this will be a terrible deal. They didn't seem to learn their lesson when they signed Prince Fielder to a 9-year contract worth $214 million and then traded him after only 2 seasons to the Texas Rangers. I wonder what this is going to do for them in terms of resigning Max Scherzer now? True, the Tigers are now out from under Fielder's contract with the exception of $30 million, this new Cabrera extension, plus they extended Justin Verlander last year for 7-years at $180 million (at some point the money has to run out, right?).
Bad move IMO for the number of years. There isn't one 10-year deal that has worked out well in the majors (just ask the Yankees - Alex Rodriguez, the Angels - Albert Pujols, and ask the Mariners in a few years - Robinson Cano).
Agree completely with your assessment Irishman. Cabrera is great, but will not be great for more than 3 of the 10 years of this contract. His skills will decline and his large build will likely bring about back problems.
I would have thought that the Tigers were smart in unloading Fielder's bloated contract. Now they're committing to Cabrera, a fantastic talent, for even more money than Fielder. And that should pretty much guarantee Scherzer will not be able to sign.
I would have expected this move from the Ford family owning the Detroit Lions, but not from the Tigers.
As good as Verlander has been, what are the odds he keeps up his domination for the next 7 years? He already showed some signs of slowing down last year. Hard throwers don't last nearly as long as junk ball throwers like Cliff Lee.
When he passes Yastrzemski, then Yaz, old #will be officially #8.
When I see anyone with #8, I think of three players, Yaz, Willie Stargell and Joe Morgan (who selected #8 because of Stargell).
Wow, what a list of players. Yaz and Pops Stargell were unbelievable talents. Morgan was a vital part of the Big Red Machine infield, but was often overshadowed by teammates Johnny Bench & George Foster.
When he passes Yastrzemski, then Yaz, old #will be officially #8.
When I see anyone with #8, I think of three players, Yaz, Willie Stargell and Joe Morgan (who selected #8 because of Stargell).
Wow, what a list of players. Yaz and Pops Stargell were unbelievable talents. Morgan was a vital part of the Big Red Machine infield, but was often overshadowed by teammates Johnny Bench & George Foster.
Don't forget Yogi Berra (and don't forget that he won the MVP THREE times).
Aside from the circus of replays we have the first controversy of the 2014 season. Yankee pitcher Michael Pineda had a dark substance on the palm of his pitching hand while pitching in last night's game. The Red Sox claim that it appears to be pine tar. Pineda claims it was just dirt that he applied because of sweaty hands. Was it pine tar? Maybe. But it sure as hell wasn't dirt.
Anybody see the Pirates/Brewers fight? Not sure what set Cole off but you can hear him saying something fu**ing or fu**er after the guy got the triple and then from there it was all out craziness.
I didn't see that game. But what has happened to my Pirates? I thought they'd dominate the division this season. Well, as it always does in baseball,it comes down to pitching.
Too early as of late. Pittsburgh has a lot of potential. They have Gregory polanco coming up too. He can be a fire starter for you guys. And you have Jameson Taillon and that one other pitcher coming up. Taillon is almost ready but the other guy(who is a top prospect in the mlb)has potential.
I didn't see that game. But what has happened to my Pirates? I thought they'd dominate the division this season. Well, as it always does in baseball,it comes down to pitching.
No fear, oli. The standings don't really taske meaningful shape until Memorial Day. The Brewers are off to a blazing start and will be competitive throughout. The Bucs will be at the top of the pack when the dog days come.
I cheered for him. I don't see the beef really. As long as he doesn't grip about not winning, I'm fine with Cano and I appreciate everything he did for us.
Did anybody see this phenomenal play by Bautista? What's even more amazing is that it was the 2nd consec night he threw the batter out before the runner reached 1B. Reminded me of Expos great Andre Dawson.
My boys are really rolling this year. Surprised by the power they are displaying. Don't think anyone expected that at all. Picking up Hudson and Morse proved to be huge moves that have payed off big time. Everything seems to be clicking for them. Hoping everyone can stay healthy. I don't think the Dodgers are going to be much of a problem.
My boys are really rolling this year. Surprised by the power they are displaying. Don't think anyone expected that at all. Picking up Hudson and Morse proved to be huge moves that have payed off big time. Everything seems to be clicking for them. Hoping everyone can stay healthy. I don't think the Dodgers are going to be much of a problem.
The Dodgers are paper lions. They should be playing better than they are, but that was the case last year, and they became the best team in the second half. I wouldn't necessarily count on that to happen this year. I don't think Mattingly is the right manager for that situation. The team has too much drama.
The Giants on the other hand are proven winners, who have now overachieved twice recently to win championships. They are very much like the Cardinals of the past ten years. They may not take themselves seriously, but they take the game seriously.
It looks like those Dodgers have a clubhouse full of players arguing over who is the biggest star. They shoulda seen it coming when you try to sign the best available players money can buy and put them on one team.
Great game against your Mets last night PB. Are you guys happy about picking up Bartolo Colon? He Kept us off the board (and the bases for that matter) last night. Final game of the series this afternoon.
1. The distribution of power teams has definitely shifted westward as the East divisions are playing sub-.500 ball. The traditional powers look weak. The Red Sox don't have the fire or competitiveness of last year; the Yankees appear old and punchless; The Rays can't score; the Phillies can't win and the Mets have little after David Wright. Even the Braves are struggling to create distance from these rusty teams and the Nationals are in their second consecutive year of being predicted to light the world on fire, but barely creating a spark.
Meanwhile the exciting teams live in the central and west: Oakland, San Francisco, Milwaukee, and Detroit. Even the Angels and Dodgers and Cardinals offer more excitement than the East.
I thought the Manny Machado incident and Oriole game against the A's offered an appropriate metaphor for the difference between east vs. west.
2. There are more exaggerated infield shifts for batters than I have ever seen in one season, and why not? Batters don't have enough skill and versatility to beat the shift. I remember the Reds in '77 putting on a huge infield shift for Rich Hebner, a left-handed, dead pull hitter, who was a pretty good hitter, but never going to smell a batting crown. He went 5 for 5 as he bunted 3 grounders to the vacated third base, and aimed two soft grounders through the vacated spot. He was never a bunter, but there was a time when every hitter was expected to be able to lay one down. As a result there were rarely exaggerated shifts employed.
Hitters today, when faced with shifts that leave the entire left side of the infield open are much more likely to ground out to right field where the second baseman is, than even consider taking it the other way even when a homerun is not needed.
They may not take themselves seriously, but they take the game seriously.
Kinda like those 1993 Phillies of yours .
Beards, bellies and biceps. That was my favorite Phillie team in my life.
Of course it was. We were both still young in 1993. And don't think that's not part of it!
I turned 29 that year and my first child was born during the season. The Phils had finished a distant last the previous year, and instead of bidding to get Barry Bonds in the free agent market, they used the money to get Jim Eisenreich and Pete Incaviglia to platoon, and Wildman Danny Jackson and David West.
I don't think there's been such an eccentric cast of characters to fill a roster when you add these guys to Mitch Williams, Dave Hollins, Dutch Daulton, Lenny Dykstra (whose son lives near me for the moment), Curt Schilling, Wes Chamberlain, Todd Pratt and John Kruk.
We recently had the 40th anniversary of Hank Aaron's record breaking homer, and today marks the 40th anniversary of a lesser known would-be homer that never was.
On this date in 1974 in the Houston Astrodome Dave Cash walked and Larry Bowa singled to lead off the first. Mike Schmidt launched a shot heading far beyond the centerfield wall. However, it struck a speaker dangling 120 feet from the ground above deep centerfield. It hit high off the speaker and bounced to the shallow part of the outfield. After discussion, as this contingency was not specifically contained in the ground rules because it was deemed impossible) it was ruled a single.
Cedeno claimed in his long career he never saw a ball hit like that one, and it was estimated that it would have gone 525-600 feet.
The speaker was never again hit by a batted ball though it was removed shortly before the Astrodome was closed.
I turned 29 that year and my first child was born during the season.
I turned 34 during that World Series, Klyd. So I guess I have five years on you. I had two small daughters and my son came along on '95 .
Originally Posted By: klydon1
I don't think there's been such an eccentric cast of characters to fill a roster when you add these guys to Mitch Williams, Dave Hollins, Dutch Daulton, Lenny Dykstra (whose son lives near me for the moment), Curt Schilling, Wes Chamberlain, Todd Pratt and John Kruk.
I don't remember a cast of characters like that before or since. Those great A's teams from the '70s had a few characters, but nothing like those Phils .
Bill Clinton Tried to Strong Arm Yankees into Fighting Drug War, Documents Reveal
Declassified documents from the Clinton Administration show the zealousness of the former president’s war on drugs.
According to newly released declassified documents, former President Bill Clinton sought the help of the New York Yankees and its then-principal owner George Steinbrenner in fighting the war on drugs.
The documents were written by then-Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, now the embattled mayor of Chicago, and show how the administration in a sense tried to muscle the sports franchise into helping wage the war on drugs.
It was 1995 and the Yankees had just signed Darryl Strawberry to a short-term contract despite the all-star slugger testing positive for cocaine just months earlier. Emmanuel had been discussing the issue with Larry Brown, who was then the Director of the Office of National Drug Policy under Clinton, and expressed in no uncertain terms the administration’s displeasure with the signing.
“I have been working with Director Lee Brown on his statements about Darryl Strawberry and the Yankees,” Emmanuel wrote. “He did a very good job representing our principles and explaining why we oppose a two-time drug user being admitted back onto the field.”
At the time, the Clinton administration was seeing a precipitous drop in violent crime since its peak in 1991 and wanted to do everything it could to continue pushing those numbers down.
Emmanuel’s document listed three demands specifically targeted at the Yankees: one, they wanted Strawberry to perform community service with young people; two, they requested that the team set up some kind of “franchise-wide standard,” though what that meant was never explained; and three, they wanted Steinbrenner to contribute financially to a drug program of Brown’s choosing.
While the documents remained classified for almost 20 years, the Clinton administration did publicly chastise the Yankees at the time of the signing. “The Yankees have struck out by signing Darryl Strawberry,” Brown said at the time. “They are sending the worst possible message to the youth of America: That if you use drugs, you can be rewarded with big money in big-time sports.”
Apparently, Steinbrenner ignored the administration’s demands and went on to win two World Series with Strawberry, while Clinton went on to oversee a steep decline in violent crime despite the Yankees’ non-compliance.
2. There are more exaggerated infield shifts for batters than I have ever seen in one season, and why not? Batters don't have enough skill and versatility to beat the shift. I remember the Reds in '77 putting on a huge infield shift for Rich Hebner, a left-handed, dead pull hitter, who was a pretty good hitter, but never going to smell a batting crown. He went 5 for 5 as he bunted 3 grounders to the vacated third base, and aimed two soft grounders through the vacated spot. He was never a bunter, but there was a time when every hitter was expected to be able to lay one down. As a result there were rarely exaggerated shifts employed.
Hitters today, when faced with shifts that leave the entire left side of the infield open are much more likely to ground out to right field where the second baseman is, than even consider taking it the other way even when a homerun is not needed.
I couldn't agree more. It is SO frustrating to see these guys keep hitting into the shift. Lay a bunt down and try to beat it. Force the team not to shift on you or just continue to drop bunts. The Yankees NEVER do this and it just kills me watching the shift gobble up ground ball after ground ball for outs.
Hitters today, when faced with shifts that leave the entire left side of the infield open are much more likely to ground out to right field where the second baseman is, than even consider taking it the other way even when a homerun is not needed.
I couldn't agree more. It is SO frustrating to see these guys keep hitting into the shift. Lay a bunt down and try to beat it. Force the team not to shift on you or just continue to drop bunts. The Yankees NEVER do this and it just kills me watching the shift gobble up ground ball after ground ball for outs.
Nice to see Mike Schmidt on hand to watch Jimmy Rollins pass him as the Phillies all-time hit leader. Even as a Mets fan, I loved Schmidt. Classy guy, tough as nails. Best third baseman I've ever seen .
Just read that former hitting great Tony Gwynn died of cancer at age 54. What a great player and too young to be gone.
Probably the best hitter I have seen in my life time along with George Brett.
.338 career avg. over 20 years of pro ball with the same club. the stat that really got me other than the career batting avg. was Gwynn only had 434 strike outs his entire career. Only good stories about this guy off the field too.
Just read that former hitting great Tony Gwynn died of cancer at age 54. What a great player and too young to be gone.
Probably the best hitter I have seen in my life time along with George Brett.
.338 career avg. over 20 years of pro ball with the same club. the stat that really got me other than the career batting avg. was Gwynn only had 434 strike outs his entire career. Only good stories about this guy off the field too.
In hearing some of the tributes to Gwynn yesterday, these jumped out at me:
1) Gwynn had one game in his MLB career in which he struck out 3 times in a game. Hacks like Mark Reynolds sometimes do that twice in the same week.
2) Gwynn was hitting .394 in 1994 when MLB cancelled the season due to the players strike. He was the closest to hitting .400 since George Brett in the early 1980s. It's a shame the strike hit because Gwynn had a real chance to break .400.
Just read that former hitting great Tony Gwynn died of cancer at age 54. What a great player and too young to be gone.
Probably the best hitter I have seen in my life time along with George Brett.
.338 career avg. over 20 years of pro ball with the same club. the stat that really got me other than the career batting avg. was Gwynn only had 434 strike outs his entire career. Only good stories about this guy off the field too.
I've been a baseball fan since the early 1970s, and the best pure hitters I've ever seen were Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn, and then I put Wade Boggs, George Brett and Pete Rose just behind. Between Gwynn and Carew I'd give Gwynn the edge.
Gwynn was one of the first hitter to study films of his hitting and he did it effectively and extensively. He became close friends with Ted Williams, another San Diegoan, who may have been the best pure hitter of all-time, and the two discussed hitting at length.
Not only did Gwynn rarely strike out, but he didn't hit many pop-ups or dribblers either. With two strikes he changed his approach (which isn't done often in today's game), but still always seemed to square up on pitches.
Another fun stat: Against the celebrated trio of Smoltz, Glavine and Greg Maddux (Hall of Famers and a future HOFer) Gwynn hit .381, and he faced these guys a lot. It didn't matter how good a pitcher you were; if he saw you enough, you were his.
[ 1) Gwynn had one game in his MLB career in which he struck out 3 times in a game.
And the lone pitcher who fanned Gwynn three times in a game was none other than Bob Welch, who died several days ago.
Klydon, you always find great nuggets like this. That is a strange coincidence. I remember Welch's playing days, but didn't realize until his passing how long he lasted in MLB. In my mind, I equated Welch as a Dodger, despite his later success with Oakland.
[ 1) Gwynn had one game in his MLB career in which he struck out 3 times in a game.
And the lone pitcher who fanned Gwynn three times in a game was none other than Bob Welch, who died several days ago.
Klydon, you always find great nuggets like this. That is a strange coincidence. I remember Welch's playing days, but didn't realize until his passing how long he lasted in MLB. In my mind, I equated Welch as a Dodger, despite his later success with Oakland.
I remember his huge year in Oakland with Dave Stewart, but the first thing I think of about Bob Welch is his rookie year when with two out in the bottom of the ninth he struck out Reggie Jackson with the tying run on base. He also was one of the pitchers off whom Jackson hit one of his three homers in the final game.
I had to look up the game where Gwynn struck out three times against Welch. It happened on Monday, April 14, 1986. Welch struck out 12 in 9 2/3 innings, but didn't get the decision. The game was tied, 2-2, after nine. Mariano Duncan homered in the top of the 10th to put the Dodgers ahead. Gwynn led off the bottom of the 10th by reaching second on an error by Ken Landreaux, who had just entered the game. Welch retired the next two batters without Gwynn advancing before pinch hitter, John Kruk, singled to tie the game.
In the 11th Bruce Bochy won the game with a pinch hit homer to lead off the inning.
Not only was it the lone game, in which Gwynn struck out three times, but it was the only game in Padre history where they had a pinch hit rbi to tie the game in extra innings and a pinch hit rbi to win it in the following inning.
To continue this unofficial theme of branching out from the topics based upon the context of the previous post, I will use Ken Landreaux. I remember him making a nice run at the unbreakable Joe DiMaggio 56 game hitting streak. I thought for sure that Landreaux's streak of hitting safely in 31 straight games would rank much higher than it did. I knew Pete Rose reached 44 games, but I had no idea how many were ahead of Landreaux. The most recent highest streak was 38 games by Jimmy Rollins between 2005-2006, which is only good enough for 8th place all-time.
Goombah, I have a bit of a remote connection with one of your Cleveland Indians, Michael Brantley. His dad (Mickey) played a few years with the Mariners in the late 80s, and was from the same hometown, Catskill, NY, as one of my roommates in Boston, Larry. Larry's brother was a friend of Mickey Brantley, so often when the Red Sox were in Boston in '88 or '89, he'd set us up with tickets.
I never met Mickey, who had a couple decent years, but he'd always leave Larry a message as to where we can pick up the tickets and for what day. We'd sit in a section where some of the players' wives and family would be, and on one occasion Mickey's wife introduced herself to us. She was with her baby, who had just started to walk. The baby boy was Michael Brantley, whom I held on my lap for a little bit.
I recently heard Michael Brantley interviewed and only when he mentioned his dad, did I put two and two together.
Yankee Old Timer's Day is on right now and I feel ancient. I'm older than half these guys .
I know the feeling.
I used to love watching these annual games when I was a kid. Joe D. was always the last player announced and then Mrs. Lou Gehrig and Mrs. Babe Ruth were introduced from the stands. The crowd would always go wild.
Yankee Old Timer's Day is on right now and I feel ancient. I'm older than half these guys .
I know the feeling.
I used to love watching these annual games when I was a kid. Joe D. was always the last player announced and then Mrs. Lou Gehrig and Mrs. Babe Ruth were introduced from the stands. The crowd would always go wild.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I remember those games on Channel 11 vividly. Those two old broads (and I mean that affectionately) were beloved by the New York fans .
Goombah, I have a bit of a remote connection with one of your Cleveland Indians, Michael Brantley. His dad (Mickey) played a few years with the Mariners in the late 80s, and was from the same hometown, Catskill, NY, as one of my roommates in Boston, Larry. Larry's brother was a friend of Mickey Brantley, so often when the Red Sox were in Boston in '88 or '89, he'd set us up with tickets.
I never met Mickey, who had a couple decent years, but he'd always leave Larry a message as to where we can pick up the tickets and for what day. We'd sit in a section where some of the players' wives and family would be, and on one occasion Mickey's wife introduced herself to us. She was with her baby, who had just started to walk. The baby boy was Michael Brantley, whom I held on my lap for a little bit.
I recently heard Michael Brantley interviewed and only when he mentioned his dad, did I put two and two together.
That's a nice story Klydon. Brantley is a core player for the Indians and seems to be well-grounded.
I have been out of town for the past few days. I was able to fulfill a sports bucket list item on the trip. I made my first visit to Wrigley Field. Topping it off was to share the visit with my family, especially my young son. We actually saw the Cubs play the Pirates on Friday. There were a good number of Pitt fans at the game.
Goombah, I have a bit of a remote connection with one of your Cleveland Indians, Michael Brantley. His dad (Mickey) played a few years with the Mariners in the late 80s, and was from the same hometown, Catskill, NY, as one of my roommates in Boston, Larry. Larry's brother was a friend of Mickey Brantley, so often when the Red Sox were in Boston in '88 or '89, he'd set us up with tickets.
I never met Mickey, who had a couple decent years, but he'd always leave Larry a message as to where we can pick up the tickets and for what day. We'd sit in a section where some of the players' wives and family would be, and on one occasion Mickey's wife introduced herself to us. She was with her baby, who had just started to walk. The baby boy was Michael Brantley, whom I held on my lap for a little bit.
I recently heard Michael Brantley interviewed and only when he mentioned his dad, did I put two and two together.
That's a nice story Klydon. Brantley is a core player for the Indians and seems to be well-grounded.
I have been out of town for the past few days. I was able to fulfill a sports bucket list item on the trip. I made my first visit to Wrigley Field. Topping it off was to share the visit with my family, especially my young son. We actually saw the Cubs play the Pirates on Friday. There were a good number of Pitt fans at the game.
I got to thinking about the game and found the box score on baseball reference. I remembered it was a Friday night after we had a final exam and were blowing off some steam before the last final. Mickey Brantley homered and doubled even though they lost.
I'm sure you'll fondly remember Wrigley Field, especially since your son shared the experience with you. Wrigley is a place where you not only watch a ball game, but you can also feel a real sense of history. It's nice to hear that the Bucs are having some of their fans follow them on the road.
Yankee Old Timer's Day is on right now and I feel ancient. I'm older than half these guys .
I know the feeling.
I used to love watching these annual games when I was a kid. Joe D. was always the last player announced and then Mrs. Lou Gehrig and Mrs. Babe Ruth were introduced from the stands. The crowd would always go wild.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I remember those games on Channel 11 vividly. Those two old broads (and I mean that affectionately) were beloved by the New York fans .
And re the Widow Gehrig: "The Pride of the Yankees" is a wonderful film, and probably the greatest baseball movie ever. But they took a lot of liberties. For instance, in the film Lou's mother and wife came to care for each other. In reality they hated each other's guts. They were tied up in lawsuits with one another until the day Gehrig's mother died.
And re the Widow Gehrig: "The Pride of the Yankees" is a wonderful film, and probably the greatest baseball movie ever. But they took a lot of liberties. For instance, in the film Lou's mother and wife came to care for each other. In reality they hated each other's guts. They were tied up in lawsuits with one another until the day Gehrig's mother died.
One of the biggest was that Lou Gehrig was such a prince and so much a goody-two-shoes. In reality he and Babe Ruth had been estranged due to a fight over a woman. They had started to become somewhat friendly again at the end.
And re the Widow Gehrig: "The Pride of the Yankees" is a wonderful film, and probably the greatest baseball movie ever. But they took a lot of liberties. For instance, in the film Lou's mother and wife came to care for each other. In reality they hated each other's guts. They were tied up in lawsuits with one another until the day Gehrig's mother died.
One of the biggest was that Lou Gehrig was such a prince and so much a goody-two-shoes. In reality he and Babe Ruth had been estranged due to a fight over a woman. They had started to become somewhat friendly again at the end.
If that's true I'll eat my hat.
See what I did there? Remember the scene on the train?
I'm sure you'll fondly remember Wrigley Field, especially since your son shared the experience with you. Wrigley is a place where you not only watch a ball game, but you can also feel a real sense of history.
I have a Wrigley story -
Back in September, 2004, a few us GBB members met up in Chicago for a get-together. We decided to take in a Cubs game and went to Wrigley. Geoff, LaDolceVita and Don Sicilia had gotten seats in the outfield stands while I decided late to attend and bought seats for me and my friend on the first base line (between first and home). My friend was a little afraid of the possibility of getting hit by a foul ball but I told her to relax and enjoy the game. Well, in the eighth inning a foul ball was popped our way and coming right at us. I stood up, along with all those around me, and just watched the ball come right into my hands (as everyone else was reaching for it). I caught it, and started to sit down to show the ball to my friend when I saw she was covered by two guys who had been sitting behind us. I pulled one of the guys off her and sat down and showed her the ball. That's when she started screaming, looking at my hand. Blood was pouring out, getting all over my pants, and she started freaking out. Apparently, the idiot behind me had tried to catch the ball in his plastic beer cup and that had split, cutting my hand.
As luck would have it, the only first aid station in the ballpark was only a short distance away and the ushers rushed me over there. They were able to stop the bleeding but I had to go to the hospital (by cab) to get stitches.
We called Geoff to let him know what was happening (and to let him know we wouldn't be meeting up with him after the game) and his only concern was if I kept the ball.
See what I did there? Remember the scene on the train?
I'll start calling you 'Walter Brennan'. (he used that line when he thought Gehrig was guilty of having an affair with a woman, when Lou was actually umpiring a baseball game for kids). The eat the hat scene may have been true, though.
And re the Widow Gehrig: "The Pride of the Yankees" is a wonderful film, and probably the greatest baseball movie ever. But they took a lot of liberties. For instance, in the film Lou's mother and wife came to care for each other. In reality they hated each other's guts. They were tied up in lawsuits with one another until the day Gehrig's mother died.
One of the biggest was that Lou Gehrig was such a prince and so much a goody-two-shoes. In reality he and Babe Ruth had been estranged due to a fight over a woman. They had started to become somewhat friendly again at the end.
Very true. Look at old films of Ruth crossing the plate after a homerun. Gehrig is usually coming to the plate to bat, but the two seldom even looked at each other, let alone exchange a handshake. Gehrig also hated Ruth's lifestyle.
And a generation before that the celebrated Cub double play combination of Tinker and Evers hated each other.
I'm sure you'll fondly remember Wrigley Field, especially since your son shared the experience with you. Wrigley is a place where you not only watch a ball game, but you can also feel a real sense of history.
I have a Wrigley story -
Back in September, 2004, a few us GBB members met up in Chicago for a get-together. We decided to take in a Cubs game and went to Wrigley. Geoff, LaDolceVita and Don Sicilia had gotten seats in the outfield stands while I decided late to attend and bought seats for me and my friend on the first base line (between first and home). My friend was a little afraid of the possibility of getting hit by a foul ball but I told her to relax and enjoy the game. Well, in the eighth inning a foul ball was popped our way and coming right at us. I stood up, along with all those around me, and just watched the ball come right into my hands (as everyone else was reaching for it). I caught it, and started to sit down to show the ball to my friend when I saw she was covered by two guys who had been sitting behind us. I pulled one of the guys off her and sat down and showed her the ball. That's when she started screaming, looking at my hand. Blood was pouring out, getting all over my pants, and she started freaking out. Apparently, the idiot behind me had tried to catch the ball in his plastic beer cup and that had split, cutting my hand.
As luck would have it, the only first aid station in the ballpark was only a short distance away and the ushers rushed me over there. They were able to stop the bleeding but I had to go to the hospital (by cab) to get stitches.
We called Geoff to let him know what was happening (and to let him know we wouldn't be meeting up with him after the game) and his only concern was if I kept the ball.
Fun times and a good memory.
That was one of the greatest stories I've read in the sports forum.
I never got a foul ball in a major league game, but I did see a woman catch two fouls...on consecutive pitches.
The closest I came was on the last Sunday of August, 2001, I think, I was at old Vet Stadium watching the Phillies and Giants. We were sitting in the second row of the second level just between home and first. I was carrying two trays of food and drinks from the concourse and was just entering the seating sections to get back to my seat when a Pat Burrell foul was coming right to me. As this was at the top of the ramp to enter the sections, I was the only one who had a play, and it would have been a can of corn if my hands weren't full. All I could do was move my head and let the ball bounce off the concrete façade just above me.
My boys were 8 and 6 at the time, and they had their gloves and caps and were just staring at me, open-mouthed in disappointment. They chowed down the pretzels and nachos and gulped the soda, but they'd rather that I threw the trays down and caught the damn ball.
I'm watching the Yankees right now and Michael Kay just made an EXCELLENT point. They're celebrating the 75th anniversary of Lou Gehrig's speech today. The Iron Man. 2130 straight games. Tough as nails and all that jazz.
And Jacoby Ellsbury, all of thirty years old, needed the day off because he's tired. Much irony?
Now I realize that because of prenatal drugs and advances in medicine and training techniques that today's athletes are bigger, stronger and faster in almost every way. But don't tell me that they're made of the same stuff as the old timers. Because they're not.
And Jacoby Ellsbury, all of thirty years old, needed the day off because he's tired. Much irony?
Now I realize that because of prenatal drugs and advances in medicine and training techniques that today's athletes are bigger, stronger and faster in almost every way. But don't tell me that they're made of the same stuff as the old timers. Because they're not.
There are many recent coddling conventions in baseball in the past 20 years that have become commonplace, but were unheard of in the 70s and earlier.
And one of them that cracks me up is resting players because of a day game after a night game. I can't imagine Pete Rose or even catchers like Carlton Fisk and Johnny Bench being told that they can't play because they just played 15 or 16 hours ago.
Pitch counts are another. Once a pitcher approaches 100 pitches in a game there seems to be grave concern among coaches and broadcasters that he's going to self-destruct. In the '75 world series Luis Tiant was pitching to Joe Morgan with a 3-2 lead in the ninth with the tying and winning runs on base, having thrown 140 pitches. Despite the righty-to-lefty match up there was no thought of pulling Tiant, who retired Morgan.
And similarly, if a closer today, God forbid, has to get more than three outs for a save, it's almost as though he parted the Red Sea. It used to be that if a reliever entered the game in the 7th with a lead, he was expected to finish it.
Of course, there are some external factors that have modified coaching perspectives in the lasrt generation or so of baseball, but player expectations have been lowered quite a bit.
LMAO at resting players the day game after a night game. Go put in a double shift on a construction site with the night crew, then try to turn down the day shift the next day .
Not to mention that up until twenty years ago it wasn't unheard of to play doubleheaders on a Sunday afternoon after a Saturday night game. But don't get me started about the virtual elimination of doubleheaders .
That's funny, Goom. I'll tell you, though. I'm really getting tired of it now. And I've always really liked Jeter. But they're acting like Jesus, The Buddha and Moses are all retiring from Heaven.
And I personally think it would have been nice if he retired last year with Mariano. Just imagine Cooperstown in July of 2019 if he did.
That's funny, Goom. I'll tell you, though. I'm really getting tired of it now. And I've always really liked Jeter. But they're acting like Jesus, The Buddha and Moses are all retiring from Heaven.
And I personally think it would have been nice if he retired last year with Mariano. Just imagine Cooperstown in July of 2019 if he did.
Had Jeter done that with Mo he would have had to share the spotlight with him. Not his style and I'm a big fan of his! Just enjoys the lights on him. My opinion only
That's funny, Goom. I'll tell you, though. I'm really getting tired of it now. And I've always really liked Jeter. But they're acting like Jesus, The Buddha and Moses are all retiring from Heaven.
And I personally think it would have been nice if he retired last year with Mariano. Just imagine Cooperstown in July of 2019 if he did.
Had Jeter done that with Mo he would have had to share the spotlight with him. Not his style and I'm a big fan of his! Just enjoys the lights on him. My opinion only
Oh, absolutely. That was more than likely the motivating factor.
LMAO at resting players the day game after a night game. Go put in a double shift on a construction site with the night crew, then try to turn down the day shift the next day .
Are those the same guys who walked 5 miles to and from school, uphill both ways....in a snow storm? Or were they the guys who slept on the job site while their buddies covered for them, which they all took turns doing.
LMAO at resting players the day game after a night game. Go put in a double shift on a construction site with the night crew, then try to turn down the day shift the next day .
Are those the same guys who walked 5 miles to and from school, uphill both ways....in a snow storm? Or were they the guys who slept on the job site while their buddies covered for them, which they all took turns doing.
LMAO at resting players the day game after a night game. Go put in a double shift on a construction site with the night crew, then try to turn down the day shift the next day .
Not to mention that up until twenty years ago it wasn't unheard of to play doubleheaders on a Sunday afternoon after a Saturday night game. But don't get me started about the virtual elimination of doubleheaders .
my father had to work 7-14's one summer so Yale could get there dorms done...almost killed him...
Mary I get what your saying and i did a lot of sleeping the summers i worked there, mainly because i was Little Bear's kid but ive seen these guys work crazy shifts in terrible conditions. i remember working under the street in the tunnels and it was over 150 degrees. 15 mins in 5 mins out. god im glad my uncle got me an office job.
AC in the summer and heat in the winter...better than being on a ladder in january or a boiler room in july.
Yes, they did. Pirates have been very hot even though they lost a tough game to the Cards last night. The Pirate/Cardinal matchup has provided baseball's best games over the past two years.
i was the kid who would watch the whole game. guess if it was a curve or fastball...is he going to steal? yelling at the announcers...the whole 9.
now i can barely watch an inning. maybe because i have 2 yr old who turns 3 in august and a one year old just a few weeks ago. i just dont get into it like i used to. by the time i put them down my wife and i just crush the couch and dont move.
tell you what i miss...TWIB with mel allen...loved it
I moved to South Jersey 7 years ago from Rockland County, NY. We had the YES network and watched a lot of Yankees. I move down here and the YES network was available, but when it was time for the games - blackout. Its Philly country down here. I watch games on occasion, but even watching the Yankees on Fox, TBS, or ? is painful. The game has gotten slower and the announcers worse. I remember going to a Yankee game and be driving up the Major Deegan at 10 pm.
Hey Kly, what do you think about Sandberg? Another year? Incredible how the hitting has dropped off so drastically. And the pitching. Battle for the basement with the Mets.
Hey Kly, what do you think about Sandberg? Another year? Incredible how the hitting has dropped off so drastically. And the pitching. Battle for the basement with the Mets.
Yes. I like Sandberg and realize that he is saddled with a team of declining veterans. Sandberg has made some odd strategic moves during games that have backfired, but I don't mind the aggressiveness. While winning has been inconsistent under Sandberg, effort hasn't. The team plays hard for him. He was a great motivator and winner in the minors and soon those guys he managed will be moving up to fill roster spots.
Dominic Brown is probably the least productive starting player in the game, and they have a lot of dead, aging payroll weight, like Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins.
The pitching staff is ok with Hamels and Lee, once he gets off the DL, as a solid 1-2 punch. And the bullpen had an unbelievably good June. But the middle relief won't hold up as it's young. Papelbon surprisingly is having as good a year as he's ever had. he just doesn't get as many save opportunities as he should, but he has saved about 19 of 21 games with an ERA of about 1.20, which should have won him a spot on the all-star team.
The biggest problem is GM. Amaro, Jr. has acquired a lot of mediocre talent. There are some promising prospects in the minors, but not as much as there should be. There should be a lot of interest in Chase Utley, Papelbon, and Lee at the trading deadline, and I think the team should move the first two and maybe Lee if they can replenish the farm.
And a generation before that the celebrated Cub double play combination of Tinker and Evers hated each other.
You're a Pa. guy, Klyd. Did Bonds and Bonilla get along?
I'm having a senior moment and I can't remember if they had a similar falling out .
I just happened to see this for the first time now, pizzaboy.
Bonds and Bonilla were very close friends during their time in Pittsburgh and later on. With Andy Van Slyke in center they made up one of the greatest outfields in the past 40 years.
Both Bonds and Bonilla didn't get along well with Van Slyke.
And a generation before that the celebrated Cub double play combination of Tinker and Evers hated each other.
You're a Pa. guy, Klyd. Did Bonds and Bonilla get along?
I'm having a senior moment and I can't remember if they had a similar falling out .
I just happened to see this for the first time now, pizzaboy.
Bonds and Bonilla were very close friends during their time in Pittsburgh and later on. With Andy Van Slyke in center they made up one of the greatest outfields in the past 40 years.
Both Bonds and Bonilla didn't get along well with Van Slyke.
That's it! (as I snap my fingers). I knew I remembered something about bad blood in the outfield .
I think CC Sabathia may actually be finished. When athletes who have battled weight all their lives start having knee and back operations, it's never a good sign. He's actually pretty svelte right now, but I think the damage is done. But I'm not a doctor. Time will tell .
And a generation before that the celebrated Cub double play combination of Tinker and Evers hated each other.
You're a Pa. guy, Klyd. Did Bonds and Bonilla get along?
I'm having a senior moment and I can't remember if they had a similar falling out .
I just happened to see this for the first time now, pizzaboy.
Bonds and Bonilla were very close friends during their time in Pittsburgh and later on. With Andy Van Slyke in center they made up one of the greatest outfields in the past 40 years.
Both Bonds and Bonilla didn't get along well with Van Slyke.
That's it! (as I snap my fingers). I knew I remembered something about bad blood in the outfield .
To their credit they put aside differences to play very well together. The Pirates in the 70s and 80s always seemed to manage to put together terrific outfields. Dave Parker/Al Oliver/Richie Zisk, and then Omar Moreno and Bill Robinson/Mike Easler joined Parker for the World Series team in '79. They also had Lee Lacy, one of the finest pinch hitting outfielders of the era.
I think CC Sabathia may actually be finished. When athletes who have battled weight all their lives start having knee and back operations, it's never a good sign. He's actually pretty svelte right now, but I think the damage is done. But I'm not a doctor. Time will tell .
I think his days as an effective starter are over. Some guys can play in their 40s, but to do that you have to start taking care of the body in the 20s.
The Pirates in the 70s and 80s always seemed to manage to put together terrific outfields. Dave Parker/Al Oliver/Richie Zisk, and then Omar Moreno and Bill Robinson/Mike Easler joined Parker for the World Series team in '79. They also had Lee Lacy, one of the finest pinch hitting outfielders of the era.
Oh yeah, Klyd. I remember those Pirate teams VERY well.
I saw Pops hit an absolute moonshot off Seaver when I was still in high school. And coincidentally, Stargell hit the first ever home run at Shea back in '64. Very classy guy.
"When I played, there were 600 baseball players, and 599 of them loved Willie Stargell. He's the only guy I could have said that about. He never made anybody look bad and he never said anything bad about anybody." ------- Joe Morgan
The Pirates in the 70s and 80s always seemed to manage to put together terrific outfields. Dave Parker/Al Oliver/Richie Zisk, and then Omar Moreno and Bill Robinson/Mike Easler joined Parker for the World Series team in '79. They also had Lee Lacy, one of the finest pinch hitting outfielders of the era.
Oh yeah, Klyd. I remember those Pirate teams VERY well.
I saw Pops hit an absolute moonshot off Seaver when I was still in high school. And coincidentally, Stargell hit the first ever home run at Shea back in '64. Very classy guy.
"When I played, there were 600 baseball players, and 599 of them loved Willie Stargell. He's the only guy I could have said that about. He never made anybody look bad and he never said anything bad about anybody." ------- Joe Morgan
Stargell also hit the farthest ball in the 30+ year history of Veterans Stadium, and the right-field seat where the ball landed was specially painted Pirate yellow. I once sat in the seat and looked at home plate and my jaw dropped when I considered how far that ball was hit. He's also, I believe, the only player to hit a fair ball out of Dodger Stadium...and he did it twice. That windmill batting warm-up in the batter's box must have worked.
Joe Morgan actually wore #8 for his career in admiration of Stargell. I don't think a classier player than Stargell has ever put on cleats. The Pirates and Phillies were fierce rivals in the 70s. And in 77 and 78 they had close finishes for the division. In 78 there was a brawl right before the all-star break and going into the final weekend the Bucs had cut a large Phillie lead to 4 games with a 4 game series in Pittsburgh between the teams. The Pirates swept a doubleheader on Friday with 2 strange walk-off wins, and on Saturday Stargell hit a first inning grand slam off Randy Lerch, who actually hit two homers himself as the Phillies managed to rally to win in a slugfest.
During the televised locker room celebration Stargell came to the Phillie club house and congratulated each player and coach. I was 14 and was stunned by this level of sportsmanship at this moment of a bitter rivalry.
One of my regrets about living in Texas is that I was not in Pittsburgh to participate in the celebratory atmosphere of the city during those glorious days. When I think of the some of the crap that populates the ranks of professional sports these days, I long for the Willie Stargells and Clementes of yesteryear.
One of my regrets about living in Texas is that I was not in Pittsburgh to participate in the celebratory atmosphere of the city during those glorious days.
Too bad. They really missed you. Rennie Stennett was asking for you and everything.
Speaking of the Pirates, my 8 year old & I did a day trip to PNC yesterday. I love going to that stadium. Our seats were in the shade, the Bucs came back after falling behind early, and we had a great day being together. One of my favorite things in life is getting to watch baseball with my son.
PNC is consistently rated as the best ballpark in the country. Of course, living so far away, I haven't gotten to visit it during the season. I think I'll make plans to do so next summer on one of my trips to Pittsburgh.
You can't spend a better day than taking your son to a ball game, goombah. And I said it before that PNC is hands-down the finest park, in which I've seen a game. In a few weeks my son is going to get to see a couple of games there from the GM's box. Lucky bastard.
You can't spend a better day than taking your son to a ball game, goombah. And I said it before that PNC is hands-down the finest park, in which I've seen a game. In a few weeks my son is going to get to see a couple of games there from the GM's box. Lucky bastard.
It's a haul from Ohio, but I would love to visit the Cardinals stadium at some point. I'm fortunate that within 6 hours, these parks are within driving distance for me: Nationals, Reds, Indians, Tigers, Cubs, Whitesox, & Brewers.
For my money, I would have to agree with you Klydon that PNC is the nicest park.
I saw the Clemente statue on the outside. Who was the other statue - Willie Stargell?
I saw the Clemente statue on the outside. Who was the other statue - Willie Stargell?
Yes, and sadly Stargell died after a long illness on the morning that the stadium opened. His statue was unveiled only a couple of hours after the announcement of his death. It was a very bittersweet day in Pittsburgh.
You can't spend a better day than taking your son to a ball game, goombah. And I said it before that PNC is hands-down the finest park, in which I've seen a game. In a few weeks my son is going to get to see a couple of games there from the GM's box. Lucky bastard.
Completely agree on PNC Park being a great park. I only lived in Pittsburgh for a year, but that was a fun year, and what a great city.
You can't spend a better day than taking your son to a ball game, goombah. And I said it before that PNC is hands-down the finest park, in which I've seen a game. In a few weeks my son is going to get to see a couple of games there from the GM's box. Lucky bastard.
Completely agree on PNC Park being a great park. I only lived in Pittsburgh for a year, but that was a fun year, and what a great city.
I saw the Clemente statue on the outside. Who was the other statue - Willie Stargell?
Honus Wagner.
There is indeed a great statue of Wagner, and in addition to Clemente and Stargell, perhaps the best statue is Bill Mazeroski, running wildly, arms spread and holding his cap after hitting the walk-off homer to win the '60 series. There are also statues of Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige, and of course, Pittsburgh icon and devoted fan, Mister Rogers.
I saw the Clemente statue on the outside. Who was the other statue - Willie Stargell?
Yes, and sadly Stargell died after a long illness on the morning that the stadium opened. His statue was unveiled only a couple of hours after the announcement of his death. It was a very bittersweet day in Pittsburgh.
Oh my goodness. I knew that Pops passed away, but I did not know the history with the timing of the statue. I always loved watching him, Blyleven, Dave Parker, and Garner play on those late 70s/early 80s teams.
It's been a long time since we posted on this thread even though the sprint to the playoffs has commenced.
Olivant, I've been watching the Pirates, who are losing too many close games. With the Phils buried, I'm pulling for the Bucs, but they can't seem to put enough wins together. Yet they are still in the hunt as Atlanta and Milwaukee have struggled.
My son got to watch a couple of Pirate games last month from the general managers box as a guest of the team. My son had done a paper in his statistics class last year dealing with new ways to collect and evaluate data to get a more precise picture of a player's or team's offensive value, it was sent to the Pirate front office, and as a result he was invited with a couple of other students from other colleges, who did projects of interest.
They got to spend an hour with Andrew McCutcheon, who was on the disabled list. He thought McCutcheon was a very nice guy, who knew an awful lot about the general science of statistics.
Kly, you're right about the Pirates. The same thing happened last season. In addition, they run hot and cold.
Nice experience for your son. Along those lines, when I was a kid my Dad arranged through a friend for me to meet with Bobby Bragan who managed the Pirates. He gave me an autographed baseball. But for the life of me I can't remember if it was autographed by the Pirates or the Houston Colts. He was a coach with the Colts for awhile. In any case, I don't know what happened to that ball, but it would probably be worth a small fortune today.
I hate to say this because in my mind they're still the same hated division rivals they were before realignment. But the Cardinals are the closest thing the National League has to the Yankees as an organization. Classy, competitive every year, the whole nine yards. I hope they win it all this year.
I hate to say this because in my mind they're still the same hated division rivals they were before realignment. But the Cardinals are the closest thing the National League has to the Yankees as an organization. Classy, competitive every year, the whole nine yards. I hope they win it all this year.
I hate to say this because in my mind they're still the same hated division rivals they were before realignment. But the Cardinals are the closest thing the National League has to the Yankees as an organization. Classy, competitive every year, the whole nine yards. I hope they win it all this year.
Glad to see the Pirates make it for the playoffs in consecutive years. Andrew McCutchen is one of the best players in the game and seems like a good role model. It's also good for MLB to have teams like KC, Anaheim, & Washington all in contention after not being in the postseason last year.
The Pirates have been one of the hottest teams these last few weeks. I hope it carries over into the playoffs. I don't watch baseball as much as I used to, so I don't know how to gauge playoff chances, momentum, etc.
I hate to say this because in my mind they're still the same hated division rivals they were before realignment. But the Cardinals are the closest thing the National League has to the Yankees as an organization. Classy, competitive every year, the whole nine yards. I hope they win it all this year.
I agree. I like the Cardinals and they're everything you say: classy and competitive every year. Was really disappointed they didn't win it all last year. Wouldn't mind seeing the Nationals or A's make some noise this October either.
I hate to say this because in my mind they're still the same hated division rivals they were before realignment. But the Cardinals are the closest thing the National League has to the Yankees as an organization. Classy, competitive every year, the whole nine yards. I hope they win it all this year.
I agree. I like the Cardinals and they're everything you say: classy and competitive every year. Was really disappointed they didn't win it all last year. Wouldn't mind seeing the Nationals or A's make some noise this October either.
I was happy they lost last year . I would really like to see the Nationals or Pirates win.
I agree. I like the Cardinals and they're everything you say: classy and competitive every year. Was really disappointed they didn't win it all last year. Wouldn't mind seeing the Nationals or A's make some noise this October either.
If you would have asked me two months ago, I had the A's a shoe-in for the World Series. Then they trade Cespedes, upgrade their rotation, and then go on a huge slide. But they're still getting in and have a chance.
Nothing beats the MLB postseason - can't wait for it to start.
Of course. Class act. Arguably the best modern day SS of all time. I'd probably rank him in the top 35 all time for best players. Still better than pete Rose(inside joke for anyone who has read my Jeter vs rose forum)
I really think the Angels will dominate the playoffs. Nobody in the AL or NL can stop them. It's not that they're that great imo, it's just that the competition this year just isn't that impressive. Unless the As step it up.
I really think the Angels will dominate the playoffs. Nobody in the AL or NL can stop them. It's not that they're that great imo, it's just that the competition this year just isn't that impressive. Unless the As step it up.
I like the Angels as well, but I honestly won't be surprised if they cool off during the playoffs and get knocked out.
It could happen. We've seen it before. Where big time hitters in the regular season suddenly shrink in the postseason. Like miguel Cabrera for example. At least as of late.
It could happen. We've seen it before. Where big time hitters in the regular season suddenly shrink in the postseason. Like miguel Cabrera for example. At least as of late.
Yup, and I believe this would be Trout's first time in the postseason. Going to be interesting on how he performs.
It could happen. We've seen it before. Where big time hitters in the regular season suddenly shrink in the postseason. Like miguel Cabrera for example. At least as of late.
I'm not a Tigers fan, but Cabrera is a bad example. If anyone from the Tigers shrunk in the playoffs, it was Prince Fielder. Cabrera was playing hurt the past two years.
Other glaring examples of stars playing poorly in the postseason are A-Rod & Barry Bonds.
It could happen. We've seen it before. Where big time hitters in the regular season suddenly shrink in the postseason. Like miguel Cabrera for example. At least as of late.
I'm not a Tigers fan, but Cabrera is a bad example. If anyone from the Tigers shrunk in the playoffs, it was Prince Fielder. Cabrera was playing hurt the past two years.
Other glaring examples of stars playing poorly in the postseason are A-Rod & Barry Bonds.
Glavine and Maddux are another pair -- both had losing records in the postseason.
The other day I said that I was rooting for the Cardinals. I changed my mind. I hope the Royals catch fire and win it all. A repeat of the '85 World Series would be pretty sweet .
The other day I said that I was rooting for the Cardinals. I changed my mind. I hope the Royals catch fire and win it all. A repeat of the '85 World Series would be pretty sweet .
It would be really interesting to see a Pirates-Royals World Series.
I was pulling for Oakland and was disappointed that they lost (the last time I checked the score it was 7-3, Oakland). I don't know how they lost (I still haven't seen the highlights). I'm rooting for San Francisco tonight.
I was pulling for Oakland and was disappointed that they lost (the last time I checked the score it was 7-3, Oakland). I don't know how they lost (I still haven't seen the highlights). I'm rooting for San Francisco tonight.
Great game, Irish. Look for the highlights online. The walk-off hit in the 12th was an all timer (for Kansas City, anyway ).
I went to bed at the same point. It was a good win for Kansas City. Whether it was Oakland or KC, I don't see the Angels being challenged in the Divisional Round.
Not sure if Billy Bean hasn't run his string in Oakland with another playoff loss. This year was especially tough after trading their best power hitter and then playing terrible for the last half of the season.
While the major damage was done after Scherzer was pulled, it is not a good sign for Detroit to lose a game he started. He's by far their best starter with Verlander clearly on the decline. Thankfully for Tigers fans they have David Price, but they will need him to win 2 games in this series for Detroit to have a chance.
tough loss for the angels, their bats went silent. they better start hiting or their going to find themselves out of these playoffs in a hurry. one thing they can do is not play Hamilton again, hes never earned the money they paid him. they need to get rid of him, Anaheim crowd booed him pretty good Thursday night.
well, there go the angels down the tubes. their big hitters cant produce, they had a great year now down 2 zip to Kansas city. dodger manager don mattingly should get fired for not pulling Kershaw earlier, the kid got tired. even great ones get tired.
A Wainwright/Kershaw matchup is one of the few games you expect to see a 10-9 final score.
I'm very surprised to see Kansas City come in and snag both games on the road. It would be nice to see them finally make a run, but they've played three extra inning games in a row, haven't much for offense and still have Ned Yost as manager.
The novelty of these extra inning playoff games has officially worn off. I've eaten twice, and I'm into my third bottle of wine since the Giants-Nationals game started.
If they keep this crap up, the Cardinals/Dodgers game is going to finish before the Giants/Nationals.
Unbelievable. I just said the EXACT same thing to my Dad. He's almost 85 and an old Harlem guy, so he's been a Giants fan all his life. Anyway, he's with us while he recuperates from hernia surgery and we're watching the game together.
A Wainwright/Kershaw matchup is one of the few games you expect to see a 10-9 final score.
I'm very surprised to see Kansas City come in and snag both games on the road. It would be nice to see them finally make a run, but they've played three extra inning games in a row, haven't much for offense and still have Ned Yost as manager.
I hope the angels start hitting, if they don't its going to be a long winter for the angels.
im a usc fan, and, I got my head handed to me. Arizona state 3 td passes in the last 3 minutes, the last one was a hail mary, its going to take a while for me to get over that one.
I really think the Angels will dominate the playoffs. Nobody in the AL or NL can stop them.
Ahem .
The Angels had the best regular season record in MLB and are swept in the first round. The Nationals, the team with the best NL record, is one game away from being eliminated in the first round. The Nats loss is even more stunning considering they lost an 18 inning marathon at home. Not sure how any team could recover from that.
well, this wont mean anything to you youngsters. but when I was a kid there were 16 teams in baseball, 8 in the american 8 in the national. the winner of each league went to the world series, how very simple it was. now the regular season doesn't mean squat. look at the angels 1- 240 mil first basemen gets 2 hits. I- 140 mil outfielder goes 0 for 14. trout gets 1 hit. these clowns are getting millions to produce,and if they don't the owners shoulnt have to pay them. and ,I forgot Kershaw, you know, " the second coming in L.A." fails big time. why don't they earn their money!!
well, this wont mean anything to you youngsters. but when I was a kid there were 16 teams in baseball, 8 in the american 8 in the national. the winner of each league went to the world series, how very simple it was. now the regular season doesn't mean squat. look at the angels 1- 240 mil first basemen gets 2 hits. I- 140 mil outfielder goes 0 for 14. trout gets 1 hit. these clowns are getting millions to produce,and if they don't the owners shoulnt have to pay them. and ,I forgot Kershaw, you know, " the second coming in L.A." fails big time. why don't they earn their money!!
I scoffed when Kershaw got his money last offseason. But then I looked at his numbers a bit closer. In six full seasons (discounting 2008), Kershaw has not had an ERA above 3.00. In the past two seasons, his ERA was under 2.00! The guy was 21-3 this year with a no-hitter. He is one of the best pitchers of the past 30 years, so I'll give him a pass for a couple of bad postseason outings. In an era where stadiums heavily favor the hitter, what Kershaw has done is nothing short of incredible.
I feel really bad for Mattingly. Even though I'm a Mets fan, he was one of my favorite players of that era. And he seems to be just as snakebit as a manager as he was as a player.
goombah, Kershaw is one of the few that earns his money. hes simply great in the regular season. but, cant seem to put it together in the playoffs, hes the reason the dodgers made the playoffs, but mattingly left him in too long in game one, he should have pulled him sooner. like the angels the dodgers cant put it together in the post season. look at their payrolls the highest in baseball.
goombah, Kershaw is one of the few that earns his money. hes simply great in the regular season. but, cant seem to put it together in the playoffs, hes the reason the dodgers made the playoffs, but mattingly left him in too long in game one, he should have pulled him sooner. like the angels the dodgers cant put it together in the post season. look at their payrolls the highest in baseball.
I really can't wait to see how the ALCS and NLCS series go. Hopefully not as lopsided as the previous series.
I think it's fascinating that the two teams who have rep'd the NL in the past 4 World Series are squaring off against one another. Should be a fun AL & NLCS.
I'm happy to see the Royals back in the World Series, but I can't help but feel bad for Buck Showalter. This guy got screwed by the Yankees after a lifetime of service (He may not have won four World Series, like Torre. But make no mistake, he would have won a couple with that team). And since then the guy is just snakebit.
But like I said, it's great to see a team like the Royals back in the World Series after almost thirty years. And I love it when a small market team gets the big market owners scratching their heads like this.
This is possibly the best postseason in baseball history thus far, and four-game Friday two weeks ago may have been the single greatest day of playoff baseball with the orioles coming back late to sink the Tigers, the Giants holding on to beat the Nats, the Cardinals mounting a furious comeback to shock Kershaw and the Dodgers and then getting the last out of the game with Puig on third, and the Royals going extra innings to beat the Angels.
These series really mark a return to pure baseball where the games are played and won on the bases, not determined by chemically induced slugfests that marginalized the role of pitching and defense. I love these 2-1 type games where every base runner is crucial and teams make moves to advance him or stop him. In the recent past base runners usually just waited to see if batters could drive him in with a homer.
I got to see the Giants play the Pirates in the wild card game, and on the following day I went to see the o's and tigers in Baltimore. It's really enjoyable to see the energy of postseason baseball.
I like the Giants, but am hoping that the Cardinals come back to win their series. St. Louis is the best baseball town in America, and it would be nice to see another KC-St.L series so that the Cards can get revenge for Don Dekinger.
This is possibly the best postseason in baseball history thus far, and four-game Friday two weeks ago may have been the single greatest day of playoff baseball with the orioles coming back late to sink the Tigers, the Giants holding on to beat the Nats, the Cardinals mounting a furious comeback to shock Kershaw and the Dodgers and then getting the last out of the game with Puig on third, and the Royals going extra innings to beat the Angels.
These series really mark a return to pure baseball where the games are played and won on the bases, not determined by chemically induced slugfests that marginalized the role of pitching and defense. I love these 2-1 type games where every base runner is crucial and teams make moves to advance him or stop him. In the recent past base runners usually just waited to see if batters could drive him in with a homer.
I got to see the Giants play the Pirates in the wild card game, and on the following day I went to see the o's and tigers in Baltimore. It's really enjoyable to see the energy of postseason baseball.
I like the Giants, but am hoping that the Cardinals come back to win their series. St. Louis is the best baseball town in America, and it would be nice to see another KC-St.L series so that the Cards can get revenge for Don Dekinger.
I, too, would like to see a Cardinals-Royals rematch. Hopefully the WS will match the great level of play that we've enjoyed to this point. Will the Royals run out of gas in the WS like the '07 Rockies? Or will their magical run culminate with a championship? It's great to see a downtrodden franchise have their chance after 29 years. I would have preferred to see the Pirates make it from the NL, but two small market teams was unlikely to happen.
yes, 8 times russ hodges 1951. I was 8 years old heard it on the radio. when are these managers going to pull their pitchers when they don't have the stuff. mattingly did it twice with Kershaw, now this clown metheny leaves wachah in, when any fool can see the kid dont have it. those managers get good money to manage, why don't they learn about pitchers!
Of course. I was being sarcastic. It's only the most famous home run call in history .
My Dad's a big Giants fan. He's an old Harlem guy so he grew up rooting for them. Then when they bolted for La La Land he couldn't forgive them for a lot of years. He naturally became a Mets fan (as did a lot of the old Giants and Dodgers fans). But he started to come back around a few years ago when Bonds retired. He loathed Barry Bonds .
Anyway, they went almost sixty years without winning a World Series, and now they have a shot at their third in five years .
The Giants and the Royals next week. Imagine KC sweeping the World Series, now that would be something. A's did not make it, but neither did the Angels or the Dodgers.
I think the six day layoff will kill any momentum the Royals had. The Rockies took a similar path in 2007 -- won a do-or-die game, then swept the Division Series and the Championship Series. Then they sat idle for a week, and looked lost in the World Series.
I think the six day layoff will kill any momentum the Royals had. The Rockies took a similar path in 2007 -- won a do-or-die game, then swept the Division Series and the Championship Series. Then they sat idle for a week, and looked lost in the World Series.
Have they always had that long of a break between the Championship series and World series or is it because it was a quick series they have longer to wait?
It looks like that's the downfall of clinching too quickly. In 1985, the LCS was extended to seven games, and there were only six instances of LCS sweeps:
1988 Oakland over Boston 1990 Oakland over Boston 1995 Atlanta over Cincinnati 2006 Detroit over Oakland 2007 Colorado over Arizona 2012 Detroit over New York
Out of the six teams that swept the LCS, only one won the World Series.
In 1988, Oakland clinched on a Sunday, and the World Series started the following Saturday. Oakland lost the World Series 4-1.
In 1990, Oakland clinched on a Wednesday, and the World Series started the following Tuesday. Oakland was swept.
In 1995, Atlanta clinched on a Saturday, and the World Series started the following Saturday. Atlanta won the World Series in six games.
In 2006, Detroit clinched on a Saturday, and the World Series started the following Saturday. Detroit lost the World Series 4-1.
In 2007, Colorado clinched on a Monday, and the World Series started the following Wednesday. Colorado was swept.
In 2012, Detroit clinched on a Thursday, and the World Series started the following Wednesday. Detroit was swept.
pb. bobby thomsens hr in 1951 was the greatest hr in bb history. giants fans went nuts. what a great place ny was in the 50s dodgers, giants, yankees, I hated barry bonds also. well, I gotta go with the royals, you know [team of destiny] like the 69 mets.
Can't complain Orioles and Buck out....still blame him for 1995 not using Mariano for more than 2/3 inn game five vs Sea. Brought in black jack McDowell...wtf...Mattinglys last game...
Game 1 of the World Series was a dud. KC was out of it by the middle of the 1st inning. SF tattooed Shields and took the crowd right out of the game. If KC loses Game 2, this thing ends in 4 games.
Game 1 of the World Series was a dud. KC was out of it by the middle of the 1st inning. SF tattooed Shields and took the crowd right out of the game. If KC loses Game 2, this thing ends in 4 games.
October 16th:
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
But I have a feeling the Giants are going to steamroll the Royals in the World Series. Just a hunch.
Game 1 of the World Series was a dud. KC was out of it by the middle of the 1st inning. SF tattooed Shields and took the crowd right out of the game. If KC loses Game 2, this thing ends in 4 games.
October 16th:
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
But I have a feeling the Giants are going to steamroll the Royals in the World Series. Just a hunch.
"I could be like the General Manager of a baseball team. Or a color man. You know how I'm always making those interesting comments?"
I really don't have a dog in this fight but my guy Jake Peavy pitches for SF tonight. Hated to see my White Sox trade him away but I will root for him especially if it fattens up Pizzaboy's escarole rubber banded in his pocket!
I heard today that game 1 is the lowest rated Game 1 in World Series history. Oh, the state of baseball is suffering. In ten years there will be about 10% Americans playing the game. Americas past time is becoming a victim of cyber games and television $$. I heard an expression today that I never paid attention to - drop-ins. e.g."and that home run was sponsored by AT&T....". Every camera shop has a corporate logo in the background. America's past time is truly about making money and that ideal has taken over the game.
I heard today that game 1 is the lowest rated Game 1 in World Series history. Oh, the state of baseball is suffering. In ten years there will be about 10% Americans playing the game. Americas past time is becoming a victim of cyber games and television $$. I heard an expression today that I never paid attention to - drop-ins. e.g."and that home run was sponsored by AT&T....". Every camera shop has a corporate logo in the background. America's past time is truly about making money and that ideal has taken over the game.
pb. bobby thomsens hr in 1951 was the greatest hr in bb history. giants fans went nuts. what a great place ny was in the 50s dodgers, giants, yankees, I hated barry bonds also. well, I gotta go with the royals, you know [team of destiny] like the 69 mets.
Not a fan of Baseball myself, but i've enjoyed following the History of the Game; so i had to look up this "greatest hr in bb history". Of course the guy was born in Glasgow .
Only joking of course he moved to the States when he was two and it seems that the HR was actually bad for him since it was all he's remembered for, even though he apparently had 8 Twenty HR seasons.
pb. bobby thomsens hr in 1951 was the greatest hr in bb history. giants fans went nuts. what a great place ny was in the 50s dodgers, giants, yankees, I hated barry bonds also. well, I gotta go with the royals, you know [team of destiny] like the 69 mets.
Not a fan of Baseball myself, but i've enjoyed following the History of the Game; so i had to look up this "greatest hr in bb history". Of course the guy was born in Glasgow .
Only joking of course he moved to the States when he was two and it seems that the HR was actually bad for him since it was all he's remembered for, even though he apparently had 8 Twenty HR seasons.
Thomspson grew up right here in New York, on Staten Island. He was a natural for this city. And he did fine after retirement, Cam. He and Ralph Branca were always in demand at MLB sponsored events and outings.
About twenty years ago I bid to play with them in a foursome at a Teamster golf outing up at Westchester Country Club, so I got to play with them and my Dad. My Dad was thrilled, of course. But I was pretty awed myself. Two nicer guys you never met. Bobby Valentine was there, too, that day. This was before he came back to manage the Mets, though. He's Branca's son-in-law. He's a nice guy, too, even though he does come across as a jerk on television sometimes.
pb. bobby thomsens hr in 1951 was the greatest hr in bb history. giants fans went nuts. what a great place ny was in the 50s dodgers, giants, yankees, I hated barry bonds also. well, I gotta go with the royals, you know [team of destiny] like the 69 mets.
Not a fan of Baseball myself, but i've enjoyed following the History of the Game; so i had to look up this "greatest hr in bb history". Of course the guy was born in Glasgow .
Only joking of course he moved to the States when he was two and it seems that the HR was actually bad for him since it was all he's remembered for, even though he apparently had 8 Twenty HR seasons.
Thomspson grew up right here in New York, on Staten Island. He was a natural for this city. And he did fine after retirement, Cam. He and Ralph Branca were always in demand at MLB sponsored events and outings.
About twenty years ago I bid to play with them in a foursome at a Teamster golf outing up at Westchester Country Club, so I got to play with them and my Dad. My Dad was thrilled, of course. But I was pretty awed myself. Two nicer guys you never met. Bobby Valentine was there, too, that day. This was before he came back to manage the Mets, though. He's Branca's son-in-law. He's a nice guy, too, even though he does come across as a jerk on television sometimes.
As i've already said i'm not a fan of Baseball, but i'm really interested in the history of it; your post about your Dad being a NY Giants fan before they moved to SF, reignited my interest in it so thanks.
I pretty much went into the deep end and started reading certain Baseball forums, an interesting thread that i came across on one was named something like: "Baseball History you personally witnessed". Some guy claimed that he witnessed a Rookie Greg Maddux, strikeout Mike Schmidt. This is the comment and link to the thread.
In 1987 I was off work for most of the summer on a health-related issue. Although I was a Chicago White Sox fan, I went to a lot of Cub day games that year. The one I remember most was a game with the Phillies. I was sitting in the second row directly behind home plate. It was a weekday afternoon game in late September, and the Cubs were in last place, so good seats were easy to come by. Late in the game, the Phillies sent up Mike Schmidt to pinch hit. He wasn't in the starting lineup that day.
The Cubs' pitcher was a rookie who looked impossibly young and scrawny to be in the big leagues, but he struck out Schmidt on three pitches that darted away from him at the last possible moment. Schmidt just dropped his bat on the ground and stood in the batters' box staring out at the mound. I'd never seen such a nasty curve from such a raw rookie. I mean this kid looked like the batboy. His name was Greg Maddux and I knew that day I'd seen something special.
yeah, cam it was one for the books, n.y. was the center of the world, when it came to baseball in those days.
go royals!
Well they did have 3 of the Pennant contenders for the first 50 years of the WS, in the B Dodgers, and NY Giants and Yankees. The last 50 years has been California dominated; with the success of the LA Dodgers, Oaklank Athletics, Angels and now the SF Giants.
no, it hasn't been all California dominated, the Yankees, the red sox, the cardinals, Baltimore, Philadelphia. those teams you mentioned from 1964 to 2014, have won 10 world championships I believe.
no, it hasn't been all California dominated, the Yankees, the red sox, the cardinals, Baltimore, Philadelphia. those teams you mentioned from 1964 to 2014, have won 10 world championships I believe.
Dominated may have been a strong word to use, but yes 10 in the last 50 years is a major achievement for any State other than NY State which has had 9 over the last 50 years; in Baseball. The Royals-Giants game is the 110th Series, the fact that the Yankees alone one 18 of the first 60 World Series' not to mention the NY Giants or Brooklyn Dodgers wins.
oh, yeah I see you've done your homework now,the Yankees have won the most world series, and I believe the cardinals are second in most series won.
I grew up in L.A. and we had the triple a pacific coast league. until 1958, there was no major league team west of st. Louis. and 5 cities had 2 teams each up until 1953. and only 8 teams in each league. so the east dominated baseball for over 5o years!
I heard today that game 1 is the lowest rated Game 1 in World Series history. Oh, the state of baseball is suffering. In ten years there will be about 10% Americans playing the game. Americas past time is becoming a victim of cyber games and television $$. I heard an expression today that I never paid attention to - drop-ins. e.g."and that home run was sponsored by AT&T....". Every camera shop has a corporate logo in the background. America's past time is truly about making money and that ideal has taken over the game.
Tragic. Honestly. Just tragic.
My opinion is that Bud Selig has done a lot to kill baseball. More specifically, Bud Selig's greed. He has placated sponsors and gone for the quick buck rather than try to develop the next generation of fans. For those old enough to remember, Selig was initally an interim commissioner in the early 90s. Unfortunately, his stay has lasted nearly a quarter century.
When I was growing up, MLB playoffs were on TV in the afternoon when I came home from school. As a kid, baseball was my favorite sport and I got to see many games both in-person and on TV. But now, despite some Divisional round games starting at 5:00 p.m. EST, most postseason games start at 8:00 p.m. during the weekday. Why? Because TV sponsors can charge more money in primetime. While this is directed at today's consumer, it is alienating the 10 year old kid who may love baseball but 1) can't stay up late during the school year and 2) is not in position financially to be a customer for another 8-10 years. It's completely short-term thinking by Selig and MLB.
This cumulative effect leaves far fewer kids interested in baseball. So we are seeing the results of declining attendance, rapidly lower TV ratings, and less interest in America's pasttime.
oh, yeah I see you've done your homework now,the Yankees have won the most world series, and I believe the cardinals are second in most series won.
I grew up in L.A. and we had the triple a pacific coast league. until 1958, there was no major league team west of st. Louis. and 5 cities had 2 teams each up until 1953. and only 8 teams in each league. so the east dominated baseball for over 5o years!
Yeah no doubt the East, AL and especially the Yankees have dominated Baseball from the start pretty much. Stll the state of California has won 10 potentially 11 if the Giants win this one, compared to NY's 9 over the last 50 years. The closest to those two is probaly Missouri who has had 6 potentially 7 if KC win this one.
Out of interest do the Royals have a player who is among the best in the league, or are they just a well rounded team?
I would suspect that they are well rounded, with a great deal of luck, which is a key ingredient In their success thus far.
Reaching the World series without losing a game has to be more than luck. Possibly some of the other teams had more injuries, but i don't think that alone accounts for the Royals winning a Pennant without losing a game and them being 2-1 against the Giants so far.
Ugh, really depressing to hear about the death of Cardinals top prospect Oscar Taveras. This is the third player that organization suffered through with in 12 years I believe. RIP.
Last night had shades of Game 6 between the D'Backs and NYY. A blowout win by the team down 3-2 to force Game 7. It'll be interesting if Madison Bumgarner pitches in relief at any point in Game 7 ala Randy Johnson from '01. The big difference is that the Big Unit went about 7 innings in Game 6 and then came in for 2 innings of Game 7.
Regardless of the outcome, it's been a terrific World Series.
goombah.... the giants are out of pitchers, look for the royals to take it all tonight.
its been a great series.
That's a good point. But I remember in '99 Pedro Martinez coming in relief against Cleveland and throwing 5 no-hit innings. So I could see Bumgarner having an impact.
Historically, the home team has a huge advantage in Game 7. I'd say KC has the momentum, but the Giants have won it all 2 of the past 4 seasons and cannot be counted out.
well, baumgarner is as good as it gets, and, of course we could see those giant bats come alive. but, don't you think
they might be asking too much of baumgarner. he hasn't had much rest. the money should be on the royals.
No question. But he has all off-season to rest. Not to keep harping on the 2001 WS, but I believe Schilling went in Games 1, 4, & 7. This is what makes legends out of players. Gotta ride the horse(s) that got you there.
Right. Schilling went Games 1, 4 and 7 and Randy Johnson went Games 2 and 6. After those two, there was a significant dropoff in quality starters on that Diamondbacks squad.
Right. Schilling went Games 1, 4 and 7 and Randy Johnson went Games 2 and 6. After those two, there was a significant dropoff in quality starters on that Diamondbacks squad.
Right. Arizona realistically had a 2 man rotation of Schilling & Johnson.
Arizona won the first two games. Then the Yanks won the next 3, including Games 4 & 5 in extra innings in dramatic fashion. Arizona exploded for a 15-2 win in Game 6, much like the Royals-SF game last night. If we get a Game 7 that is half as good as 2001, we'll be in for a real treat.
By Anthony Castrovince / MLB.com | @castrovince | 1:40 AM ET
KANSAS CITY -- The day they buried Dan Purtell, his friends and family gathered in a bar in Binghamton, N.Y. They shared the stories of a life fully but all-too-shortly lived. They cried, they hugged, they laughed and they drank. And then the clock struck 8 p.m. ET, and all eyes turned to the television sets hanging above. And they rooted for the Royals and their hero, Jeremy Guthrie, in Game 7 of the World Series.
It was just two weeks earlier that the Royals had clinched this Series berth. For Dan, a 35-year-old lifelong Royals fan fighting a cruel and unwinnable battle against the cancer that would soon claim him, the moment was bittersweet. Dan turned to his wife, Serena, and had tears in his eyes. "I've waited my whole life to see the Royals go to the World Series," he told her, "and I'm on my deathbed." Were the world a little kinder, Dan would have lived to see Game 7. Were this story a little sweeter, the Royals, behind a Guthrie gem, would have won this World Series. But we know too well that the world rarely cooperates with our vision for it. And as human beings facing that great unknown, all we can do in the unfair, unrelenting moments that remind us of our own fragility is search for some sort of solace and sense of community. For Serena and all of Dan's family and friends, Guthrie, with just a few minutes of his time on the phone shortly before the start of this Series, had helped provide that. So to them, no matter Wednesday's result, he will always be a star. Dan knew the end was near this month. He had received his devastating diagnosis -- Stage 4 colorectal cancer -- in June 2013. Time was fleeting, the treatments increasingly desperate and hopeless. This postseason run by the Royals -- the team he had adored his whole life as a sheer function of the fact that his beloved Uncle Jimmy loved them -- was not a rescue, but it was a welcomed diversion. Loved ones scrambled to come up with ways to somehow connect a dying, devoted fan to his favorite team one last time. A friend had a friend who worked in the community relations department of the Orioles, Guthrie's former team. That friend had Guthrie's number. A request was made, a favor was asked, and on Oct. 19, two days before the World Series began, the phone in Dan's hospital room rang. "When I spoke to him," Guthrie said, "I knew he was very close to the end of his life. But there was no sign of that. All he could talk about was baseball and how excited he was for the Royals and for the players he roots for. To have a family that's touched by that, that's impactful. That's real life." Guthrie said this in the immediate aftermath of Game 7, a game in which he took the loss after 3 1/3 innings of work. He was frustrated. Maybe if he could have just one pitch back from the second inning, when the Giants took the game's first lead. Or the fourth, when they took its last. Maybe if Madison Bumgarner had made just one measly mistake to these Royals hitters. Maybe if Alex Gordon had been waved home in the ninth. The what ifs will linger for as long as any of these Royals let them. But not even this game -- a Game 7, a signature moment in sport -- compares to the weight and the waves of life itself. Speaking about Dan, in a quiet clubhouse where the Royals somberly began to pack their bags, Guthrie kept things in proper perspective. "I think each one of us will wake up in a couple days," he said, "and the hurt from the loss will go away, and we'll realize -- whether it's Dan or another person that's been touched by this whole experience -- ballplayers in this spotlight have these opportunities, and a very small act goes a long way." Guthrie's small act did just that. And five days after he hung up the phone with his new favorite player, Dan watched Guthrie turn in a strong effort in the Royals' Game 3 victory in San Francisco last Friday night. "He was trying to hang on for the whole game, in and out," Dan's brother, Brian, said. "When they won, there was definitely a smile on his face. He loved that." It was early the next evening when Dan took his final breath. The Royals lost that night. "It was actually kind of fitting," said Kara Nanni, the high school friend who had made the Guthrie connection happen. "All of us Royals fans -- and we're Royals fans because of Dan -- were in mourning that night." They remain in mourning for the man who touched them with his wit, his intelligence, his genuine goodness. Dan was a preschool teacher who worked with children with special needs. He met Serena years ago at a summer camp for people with disabilities, where they both served as counselors. She loved nature, he loved baseball. They supported each other's passions by mapping out road trips to ballparks and national parks. Dan, in fact, had a goal of visiting every Major League facility. He hung a pegboard map in his house on which each stadium was marked by a pin. Sometimes, his younger brother would accompany him on a trip, and Brian would always find himself walking ahead of Dan. "I'd say, 'Why are you walking so slow?'" Brian said. "He'd say, 'I'm just taking it all in!'" Dan made it to 22 of the big league ballparks. His friends are already arranging road trips, beginning next summer, to finish the final eight for him. Serena delivered Dan's eulogy Wednesday. She told the assembled crowd that one of the last times Dan was truly happy was this past March, when the two of them traveled to Surprise, Ariz., to see the Royals play in the Cactus League. And as an October nobody could have seen coming played out, Dan was watching, rooting for, loving his Royals, even as time ticked out. "I'd like to think," said Serena, "that maybe his death was a way of securing a seat right in front." This is a story with a difficult ending. Serena is too young to be mourning a lost husband. Dan's parents, Terry and Joan, should not have had to bury their son. Brian should not have lost his brother, Kara should not have lost her friend. And maybe, if you believe in blessings from above, the Royals and Guthrie should not have lost this game. As always, though, the end is only what we make of it. And that's the lesson that Dan's widow carried with her on the day of Game 7, on the day she buried the love of her life. "One thing Dan said to me a lot was that he had so much left to do," Serena said. "So I would like people to do good things for him."
I hope the younger fans grasp just what they saw this kid do in this World Series. It just doesn't happen. It's a once in a lifetime thing to see, if that. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
I hope the younger fans grasp just what they saw this kid do in this World Series. It just doesn't happen. It's a once in a lifetime thing to see, if that. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
I thought whitey ford, sandy Koufax, curt schillings, and jack morrris, bob Gibson, were great in the world seies.
but, this kid was smoking. of course it helped baumgarner a lot when the royals kept swinging at balls 8 ft high out of the strike zone,
I hope the younger fans grasp just what they saw this kid do in this World Series. It just doesn't happen. It's a once in a lifetime thing to see, if that. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
I thought whitey ford, sandy Koufax, curt schillings, and jack morrris, bob Gibson, were great in the world seies.
Thanks for proving my point. How often does a Koufax or a Gibson or a Whitey Ford come around?
Acknowledging that this kid did something that's once in a lifetime doesn't diminish what those guys accomplished all those years ago. It actually highlights what they did because it's been so long since we've seen a performance like that.
Does anyone know when this seasons MVPs are supposed to be announced? I looked them up thinking they'd be given by now, this long after the season is finished. Does this mean that unlike the other Sports, the PostSeason factors into the voting?
Does anyone know when this seasons MVPs are supposed to be announced? I looked them up thinking they'd be given by now, this long after the season is finished. Does this mean that unlike the other Sports, the PostSeason factors into the voting?
cam, im not sure if the post season factors in or not, my read on it is, it should not. the award is given for what that individual accomplished during the season. if his team didn't make the playoffs, he still can be the mvp.
Thanks guys. So i read Trout and Kershaw are favourites, does everyone agree with those too? I also read an article on Trout being weaker than he was the last two seasons (particularly defensively), but the fact he was going up against a prime Carbrera stopped him from winning it.
It's also a bit weird that Kershaw won the Triple Crown in 2012 and failed to win it but he's fav now. I suppose he was better all round this year and more important to his team?
It's also a bit weird that Kershaw won the Triple Crown in 2012 and failed to win it but he's fav now. I suppose he was better all round this year and more important to his team?
Nope.
They just realize that they fucked up two years ago. This is tantamount to Scorsese winning Best Director for "The Departed," when he should have won it for both "Raging Bull" and "Goodfellas."
It's also a bit weird that Kershaw won the Triple Crown in 2012 and failed to win it but he's fav now. I suppose he was better all round this year and more important to his team?
Nope.
They just realize that they fucked up two years ago. This is tantamount to Scorsese winning Best Director for "The Departed," when he should have won it for both "Raging Bull" and "Goodfellas."
You're a film buff, Cam. That was for you, kid.
Thanks for that PB, my favourite Taxi Driver would've worked better though .
Obviously i'm just starting to get into the Sport so i can barely discuss the Sport with you guys, but Kershaw looks unbelievable imo he seems alot rarer than someone like Trout. No idea why but i've been alot more interested in pitchers than Position Players, and from the limited footage i've seen the only more impressive pitches i've seen have came from Greg Maddux. The way Maddux' pitches changed direction at the last possible moment is incredible, it's the sort of thing that Steroids wouldn't have had much effect on because it was just pure talent.
Maddux was a beast. Very very smart. Looked like a mad scientist up on the mound. He like kershaw however, didn't do all that great in the postseason. Still wound up getting a ring though. It's good that you're getting into baseball. It's never too late to starting getting interested in America'so past time. You should check out some of Pedro Martinez's highlights sometime. At his peak, he was probably the greatest of all time. Next to Koufax's peak of course.
there were a lot of pitchers who started off great, and went into drugs, Dwight gooden comes to mind, if he would have layed off the drugs he would have been sensational.
That is a strange coincidence. I remember Welch's playing days, but didn't realize until his passing how long he lasted in MLB. In my mind, I equated Welch as a Dodger, despite his later success with Oakland.
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