Top 25 Baseball Players

IMO:
1. Hank Aaron
2. Babe Ruth
3. Barry Bonds
4. Willie Mays
5. Pete Rose
6. Ty Cobb
7. Eddie Murray
8. Sammy Sosa
9. Rickey Henderson
10. Rafael Palmeiro
11. Stan Musial
12. Lou Gehrig
13. Cal Ripken
14. Cap Anson
15. Honus Wagner
16. Joe DiMaggio
17. Ted Williams
18. Carl Yastrzemksi
19. Tris Speaker
20. Mickey Mantle
21. Frank Robinson
22. Mike Schmidt
23. Reggie Jackson
24. Mark McGwire
25. Rogers Hornsby

Two questions, Don Jasani.

Is your list in any particular order? No pitchers?

Yeah, best at the top in descending order. I thought I'd leave pitchers for another thread.

OK, hitters only; I'll limit my list to ten:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Ted Williams
5. Henry Aaron
6. Rogers Hornsby
7. Stan Musial
8. Jimmie Foxx
9. Frank Robinson
10. Roberto Clemente

I dont have time to list my top 25 right now, but I dont see how you think Palmeiro even deserves to mentioned in the same breath as hitters like Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, and Joe DiMaggio. He is good and has had a very consistent career. He deserves to make the HOF. But he isnt on the same level as those others I mentioned earlier.

C - Ivan Rodriguez, Josh Gibson, Mike Piazza
1B - Lou Gehrig, Raphael Palmiero, Albert Pujols
2B - Nap Lajoie, Rogers Hornsby, Roberto Alomar
SS - Alex Rodriguez, Cal Ripken Jr, Ozzie Smith
3B - Mike Schmidt, Scott Rolen, Brooks Robinson
OF - Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Vladimir Guerrero
OF - Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Ken Griffey Jr
OF - Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle

one more... Pete Rose

Adding to your list:

C - Jorge Posada, Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra (though he could be outfield too )

2B - Phil Rizzuto

OF - Gary Sheffield, no question.

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As far as Palmeiro being #10, no way. I don't see him beating out anybody else below him on the list...

I have a few problems with making these kinds of lists....

I don't think I'm qualified to comment on how "great" players were if I never saw them play. I became a real baseball fan in the early 60's. I saw plenty of Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, for example, but how can I compare them with, let's say, Williams, Musial, and Dimaggio, whose careers I just missed, or from an even earlier era, Ruth or Cobb?

The only way to compare them is through their statistics, which have to be looked at and evaluated in the context of the era in which they played.

Two examples:

The late 1920's and early 1930's were a great era for hitters. Many Hall of Famers compiled their amazing offensive statistics during this time.

In 1930

The National League's league batting average was .303
The league E.R.A. was 4.97
The American Leahue batting average was .288
The league E.R.A. was 4.65
Bill Terry of the NY Giants hit .401
45 major league regulars hit .300 or better

Compare that with 1968

The N.L. batting average was .243
The league E.R.A was 2.99
The A.L batting average was .230
The league E.R.A. was 2.98
Carl Yastrzemski led the A.L. in batting average, hitting .301
Out of 74 pitchers who qulaified for the E.R.A. title, 49 had an E.R.A. of 3.00 or lower
Seven had an E.R.A. of less than 2.00, led by Bob Gibson's 1.12 and Luis Tiant's 1.60

My point is, isn't Yastrzemski's .301 in 1968 nearly as impressive as Terry's .401 in 1930?
But nobody remembers Yaz's 1968 as a "great" year.

In 1930, Lefty Grove led the A.L. in E.R.A. with a 2.54. the guy who finished second was at 3.31.
In 1930, Dazzy Vance led the N.L. with 2.61. The guy who was second was at 3.76.

Aren't Grove's and Vance's performance in 1930 nearly as impressive as Gibson's in 1968? But nobody remembers them as having great years, either.

Now, we're in another big offensive era, 1994 to the present. How will today's players be evaluated? How do we evaluate the stats of Pujols Guerrero, and A Rod? Sure, they're the best hitters today, but how do we know if they were better hitters than guys who played in a time when offense was less predominant?

It is hard to compare players of different eras, especially with the "live ball", small parks, etc.. Of course, the cream always seems to rise to the top and there are a few that come to mind that always make the list. I have trouble with players I don't know a lot about - Rogers Hornsby comes to mind. I have an uncle that tells me he is the greatest 2nd baseman ever, but in my mind I'll take Joe Morgan.

1st Lou Gehrig
2nd Joe Morgan
SS Alex Rodriguez or Derek Jeter
3rd Mike Schmidt
Catcher Johnny Bench
LF Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays
RF Hank Aaron
DH Babe Ruth (I'm guessing Ruth wouldn't mind the DH rule)

For pitchers I'd like Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, and Greg Maddox (I know there are great old timers like Mathewson and Cy Young, but I think I could win with this team and rotation!) Give me Nolan Ryan and Dennis Eckersly in relief and I'm ready to play.

The perenial "who's the greatest" opinion poll. You can really only evaluate players as rated against their peers. Babe Ruth exceeded all comparisons. There were whole teams who didn't hit as many HRs as him.

Back in the old days, the fielders used way smaller gloves, which had to have raised batting averages.