Crime Doesn't Seem To Pay for The Sopranos

Throughout the series, money seems to be the driving factor for many of the characters, be it legit folks or guys in the "Family".

One thing I notice is the inconsistency in the incomes, one minute they are able to buy diamonds, expensive trips, cars, place heavy bets, and in the next minute are bickering over something like a $1200 restaurant bill.

So let's investigate:

Tony - Possibly broke by the end of the series as his top earners were all dead and suffered from a debilitating gambling problem.
Jackie Sr - Possibly broke as Rosalie mentioned there was nothing left after the funeral
Junior Soprano - Very broke as he had no money left after years of trials and lawyer fees and ended up in a state asylum.
Paulie - Always broke and resorted to robbing old ladies to make his kick-ups to Tony
Silvio - Will be broke due to the hospital stay
Vito - Became broke as he was outed
Carlo, Patsy, Ray Curto - Always had problems earning
Johnny Sac - Assets frozen or seized by the Feds. Died broke and penniless. His wife had to move in with her daughter
Big Pussy - Left Angie with scraps and she ended up selling Kielbasa samples at the supermarket.


I mean, is all this risk of having your loved ones potentially murdered, receiving long prison terms, or getting shot/stabbed really worth it? The guys I mentioned were top earners based on the show's dialogue.

You make a good point,Nino. One of my favorite scenes in the series was when Paulie had just scored a bunch of cash and we see him cutting out coupons from the newspaper.
I agree with most of your examples,but I don't know about Sil's hospital bill. Several times in the show Tony mentions that different peoples hospital bills will be covered by health insurance from one union or another.
Also Sil was a legitimate business owner(the Bing),so he may have bought some decent coverage since he could show legit income. If he croaked, then I would imagine he had enough life insurance(also legitimately bought)to pay the bill.
The only thing that could screw him up would be to linger in a coma for so long that the insurance would run out and he would wind up like Junior,except on a machine.

Unless of course Gabrielle figured to cut her losses and pull the plug.

It never payed anyone except the actors and staff! Remember it was make believe; some people think it's real lol

Except for Tony's massive house of course which he seems to be able to afford even as a capo, yet Uncle Junior and the likes of Paulie are living in small shit holes lol.

Junior with his moldy old sweaters and hes a boss....

Nope there is no money in it. Especially in the heroin business no money at all.

Do they all have to live in million dollar houses?

Do they all even no how to live rich or want to?

What they don't want to do is work a 9 to 5 job

What they want is hot women on the side

Actors are like that my friend Johnny is an actor'. He is an old fat bastard you should see the women he gets

Years ago women wanted to get in the club' they were told they had to see them first. Back then they were just starting to shave their pussy

They had to shave them and wear skin tight Capri pants so you could see their [BadWord] through the pants



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I mean the Sopranos in this regard seems like an accurate reflection of the Mob.

As in everything I've seen about the Mafia they do very well for themselves until the end when they ether end up dead or are brought down by the Feds leaving them penniless.

The Sopranos also seems to show that mobsters in both the show and real life don't seem to grasp the concept of stashing money out of the fed's grasp for a rainy day. Thus leaving their families broke as well after their gone

I agree that for the most part, the show is accurate in the portrayal of mobsters' finances. With the exception of Tony's mansion (which he somehow had custom built as a captain) everyone seems to be living fairly modest. Also, smart gangsters don't show their wealth like that..draws too much attention from law enforcement. With respect to Paulie, the coupons thing is just showing his weird personality..he was like a neurotic senior citizen.

Maybe Tony's dad had a nest egg that he left to Tony when he died. Put that together with what he was making legitimately at Barone and what he had coming to him illegitimately and I could see him having enough to get that house built. Plus, I'm sure he had some hookups he could take advantage of for the construction of it.

I am going to disagree on this one. Tony was not broke and we only see a small portion of his family (they only really show the membership of two crews). Rosalie Aprile seemed to live very comfortably for the entire series run (France trip and that house come to mind). Junior only became broke because through his Alzheimer's he likely forgot where the lion's share of his savings was. Paulie clipped coupons and extorted old ladies because he was a frugal shortsided petty crook. That was part of the humor in his character. No where is it ever indicated that Sil is a brokester. Vito left with a duffel of cash and there is no way of knowing whether that was all he had or not, but his widow continues living in that house. Carlo, Patsy, and the other Capos ONE TIME had to be lectured about their lack of production (Something any decent sales manager or small business owner will tell his middle management from time to time). Johnny Sack did to an extent go broke. While the feds seized many assets including his Maserati and vintage Wurlitzer (lol), there is no indication that his wife was destitute (other than her having to work a part time job to help out). Puss did leave Angie with very little, until she got off her lazy ass and took the reigns of the small business he left her.

The ranches, two story, and split level houses that DiMeo family members are seen living in did not look like pieces of shit to me, just middle class American homes.

At the end of season 6, Tony was complaining about heating the pool and ran into big money problems which caused him to reach into his own stash to make up for the gambling losses. Carm's Dad built Tony's house, so maybe it was a gift/present for him. Vito and Ralphie were long gone at that point, so his cushion of easy money was gone. AJ's mental asylum stay was 2K a day in which Tony pissed and moaned about.

Rosalie openly admitted to money problems after Jackie Sr. died, but she could have gotten some type of death benefit once her husband passed on.

Sil wasn't a Boss, he did well, but who is running the Bing in his absence? Probably no one close to his bookkeeping acumen. Paulie maybe? Imagine how much a hospital stay for comatose patient would run you?

Paulie constantly had money woes and often complained about his Mother an the retirement community which was 8K a month. Towards the end he nearly fought Chris over a measly 1200 restaurant bill.

Junior went broke or in the process of going to the poorhouse once his plot to take out Tony failed and he lost much of his territory and power. Once the RICO trial started, he was getting fleeced royally by his lawyers with their appeals, discovery evidence, and "Wrigley Fuckin' Field" invoices. Remember when his Lawyer casually mentioned a basic analysis of Wiretap info would run him 400K? That is only what we saw of his fees. 6 years of that on a reduced earnings would drive him literally into the poorhouse. We always saw Junior begging Tony for more points so he could pay for his medical bills....Oh, right, yeah, the out-of-pocket medical bills with the Cancer....Junior had no money.....


Bobby couldn't even afford to help with Uncle June staying in the retirement center.

In the Episode "Chasing It", Jenny had to move in with Allegra because the Feds left her with nothing....80-85% of his assets which was 6 million which leaves 1.2 mil left for Jenny....whoa, lest not forget the wedding, which was 500K...700K left, then taxes, lawyers, fees, Sallie Mae Loans, yeah, John was toast. He tried to liquidate some assets (like the property in New Orleans), but fell through. The fact that he had to trust a man in another Family and not Philly showed how desperate the situation was for him.

If Vito was so rich, Marie wouldn't have begged Tony for a 100K to move to a new location. If anything she could have put the house up for sale and got out of there.

Rats, War With NY, Murder, and Tony's bad decisions certainly brought an end to financial prosperity.

I have to disagree with you Nino.

1) Tony - Hesh estimated his net worth at under $5 million (and he scoffed at this, as a boss should be richer). This was during his period of big gambling. By the end of the series it is reasonable to estimate that he has around $5 million put away. Even if it's just $3 million, that's plenty of money. Given that he was a boss, there were plenty of people kicking up to him that we never saw. Also, he never had expensive trials.

2) Jackie Sr - When asked if there was enough money after his death, Rosalie says "Sort of, not really". Which to me sounds like somebody who has enough money to get by but just wants more. Probably not rich but she was living and not working.

3) Silvio - He undoubtedly has health insurance. His wife will have enough of money to get by on without working.

4) Johnny Sac - He sent Tony to liquidate his portion of that Southern company that profited from the hurricane in Katrina (it was hundreds of thousands of dollars if I remember). Point being, he still had some money and owned parts of companies that the Feds and his own mob family did not know about. Ginny got to keep the house and her 401k, or something like that. She will not be rich but she will get by.

The rest of them I basically agree with you on.

Griping about money problems doesn't arise to the level of actually being poor. My old man bitched about everything from rising costs in the Construction industry to 9 dollar charges on my itemized "student charge" bill in college and we were anything but broke. Definitely disagree that it arises to the level of "certainly".

The reason why they didnt have money saved was because most of it was dirty. Thats why they bought expensive cars and properties as liquid assets. Also possibly because half of them didnt have wives and the other half had but cheated on their wives, so they wouldn't care. I would also believe paying e bail or a lawyer would take a toll on their stash.

Tony ever have a lot of money, the same with others that you named but they are fuckin' stingy so don't want to pay anything. It's normal on organized crime because this people love the money so don't like a shit when they need to pay something.

Like in "The Legend of Tennessee Moltisanti," when Larry Boy drops word that there's indictments coming at the wedding. So many of the crew went back to the bridal purse to retrieve their cash gifts, in case they had to lam it.

I would say that most of the soldiers, and perhaps even the captains like Paulie, lived a life similar to Henry Hill in "Goodfellas." Look at all the cash he came into in that movie and he had nothing but the $3,300 Paulie gave him at the end.

The point is that most of these guys spent the money faster than they earned it. Maybe Silvio, Tony, & a few other guys "saved for a rainy day." But let's face it, none of these guys were terribly bright. Most of them made the money and had big expenses and/or flaunted their superficial wealth.

Tony, as boss, had a nice cash stream flowing in. But it was very evident during a few points in the series when he felt the pinch in his cashflow.

Agreed. The quick money fueled lavish spending, which caused greater risks to be taken to keep up. Exhibit A -- Big Pussy and heroin.

it doesn't seem that too many of them have the kind of money that would set them up for life. Tony i think is ok because his kids are already grown, he's already put one through college and the other can get a job if he really wanted to. I don't think he would be hurting for money if he had to go to jail or on the lam. The only things he has to maintain personally is his home, wife. think he would generally need cash coming in regularly to maintain his lifestyle i.e. mistresses, gambling, eating and partying.They do need the illicit cash coming in or else they might aswell just go work at the front jobs and collect a cheque every month.

Didn't Carmela's father build their house?

Hugh did build the house (Tony mentioned it to Tony Blundetto in Marco Polo), which sort of explains how Tony and Carmela had such a large house despite him be a capo in Season 1.

" Italians seemed to be more content spending money than having it."

Italian gangsters usually dressed up in fancy clothes and jewlery, like I said before, liquid assets.

Not to nitpick, but those are material goods. Liquid assets are things than can be easily liquidated for value -- cash, gold, etc.

Boats, flashy clothes? That's harder to turn into value when time is of the essence.

Rolex President watches are ideal. Quick sell they are like a wearable bank CD's. Cash is the best unless you're Joe Massino he had a lot of Gold Bars!

For some odd reason, I'm having a Flavor Flav visual.

Actually, Hesh said he thought that Tony "Minus assets, was under 6" - meaning $600,000. In other words, once you took away the house, cars, and other assets, Hesh figured Tony had maybe $600k in liquid cash. This, he figured, was largely due to Tony spending it as fast as he made it. Tony was a millionaire but much of it was tied up in property and what not.

The same thing could be said for Johnny Sac, who's total net worth was estimated at $5 million.

It was one of those things that made The Sopranos very realistic. These guys didn't have that mythical "Don Corleone money." Guys who reached the upper levels, like Tony, Johnny Sac, Carmine, etc. had some good money, but it was in the 7 figures. And could quickly vanish when business wasn't going so good. And most of their guys - the average mobster - was more or less middle class.

Thanks for jogging my memory on something related....

When Vito went into hiding in New Hampshire, Tony was lamenting to Melfi about how Vito was a great earner and helped out tremendously when Tony was in the hospital. Melfi called BS on it and told Tony he had implied earlier that he had "millions of dollars" and questioned how the hospital stay could have cost so much. Tony stammered around some excuse, but the veneer was certainly off.

Yes indeed, we are in season 6 here:
Tony at this point:
- Lost his biggest earners: Vito and Ralphie
- Drained from the Separation from Carm (ie Spec House and paying her monthly expenses)
- The Tony B. situation certainly caused cash flow problems between them and NY

Captain of the Goodship Lollipop or not, Tony seriously considered bringing Vito back remotely to work out of AC and get that nice residual to keep up with the lifestyle.

That's another thing, how much and how long do the widows and spouses of these guys get taken care of financially? They obviously can't leave a will that says "Look in the birdfeeder for inheritance" as the Feds can probably seize it. Being in jail or dead obviously cuts into your earning power.

I think the whole widows and orphans program had its expiration. Rosalie had complained to Carmela in Season 4 that Jackie didn't leave her enough, and look how quickly Tony gave Vito's wife the hook. Christopher's mother lived very modestly (of course, she might have simply sunk the money in Wild Irish Rose).

Even with Angie, Tony giving her control of the body shop relieved him of significant legacy costs.

I might have touched on it in another thread, but when Tony was in the coma in Season 6, the attitudes of Paulie and Vito are quite telling. Both were dragging their feet on kicking up the $200,000 from the Columbian drug score, until Tony woke from his coma. Then those two are figuratively tripping over one another to get Tony's share over to Carmela.

Had Tony passed, Carmela would not have seen dime one from that score, and I doubt Silvio could do a thing about it.

There have been capos who have been earning the mega money. look at sammy gravano. super earner whilst he was a soldier

Tony is very asset rich. that house would be worth 4-5 million at time. he says he got it for 1.2 million in 1990s

he had cars, property about is well as that offshore stuff

Tony must have been a great earner to have top new york guys wanting to associate with him. When the series started he was getting called and a genius and a star in the mob

He probably was a rising star, but aside from Ralphie/Vito with the Esplanade business, who was really a good earner?

Then on the other hand, it wasn't as bad as Sonny Black's crew with Lefty breaking into parking meters.

tony got a "once of a lifetime" score in first season from them columbians. he had the car racket with italy. many construction rackets like HUD. Barone.

bread and butter income like loansharking an protection. bookmaking in nfl was a great earner for him

True, but to consider:

- Tony went on the rant to the capos at the beginning of Season 4, inquiring why there was no growth in revenues. Tony was quite angry with Ally Boy, who was letting ventures die on the vine.
- Clear back to the Pilot, there was concern about the garbage business diminishing. Not only did you have the Kolar Bros. moving in, but then in the last season, Dick Barone died and sold out.
- There was less cash flow on the construction rackets than previously, especially on the no-show jobs. When Paulie was in jail, there was a spat between Little Paulie and Ralph on the number of no-shows that could be spared. In Season 6, Phil and Tony were arguing on the number of no-shows (the meet at Costco) that could be divvied up.
- There was probably good money coming in on the cars to Italy, however, the FBI was aware of that racket clear back to when Pussy was alive (Pussy lied and told Lipari that Ray Curto had the operation).
- Port thefts were becoming more difficult because of the increased terror scrutiny.
- Even traditional income streams like protection were becoming difficult because of gentrification and local businesses being replaced with corporate stores. When Burt Gervasi and Patsy Parisi stopped by the new Starbucks clone, they were flat out rebuffed on joining the protection association. There's a mob worse than LCN, and that's corporate finance and accounting.

You got it right, corporations have essentially driven many of the blue-collar jobs overseas or simply eliminated their use which directly impacts people in "a certain line of business".

Ray Curto really wasn't joking or lying when he was saying the economy was the cause of diminished family returns. Even those Italian Hitters scoffed at the idea of a weaker American Dollar after their business with the Ukranian in Queens.

The decline of the dollar is the root of all these problems.