Would Tony or Silvio have ratted?

Tony and Silvio always seemed haunted by having to kill Salvatore "Big Pussy" Bompensiro. He was a guy they grew up with, like a big brother, and was respected and tough and loyal--But he was a rat. But then again, this wasn't the first rat they ever dealt with nor the first rat close to them. But killing Pussy is the only murder Tony and Silvio ever actually feel bad about; It's only murder they seemed to carry around in their consciences and wished thy didn't have to commit.

Consider how easily Jimmy Altieri was disposed of, with no mercy and no respect for his corpse, despite being guilty of the same crime. Consider that Tony orders Adriana's murder with little sadness over it and Silvio coldly executes it, with some cruelty, even though most considered her to be almost family.

Do you think the reason Tony and Silvio not only felt bad about killing Pussy but regretted is because inside they knew they'd have probably made the same decision as Pussy, if they faced the same circumstances?

Tony and Silvio, as we're told, never really did HARD time. Little stints here and there, but nothing big. They were also big family men who loved their kids and wanted the best for their kids, and they weren't that far in age from Puss.

If say it was Tony or Silvio cornered in '98 with a minimum sentence of 30 years in jail (in essence a death sentence), I can't imagine either of them not at least CONSIDERING flipping. Both had kids who were still in High School, like Puss, kids who needed them around, kis who needed to be guided the right way; Pussy's own motive for ratting was to stay around to ensure his kids got into good colleges and didn't end up like him; Like Puss, I don't think Tony and Silvio probably would want to see their grandkids from behind bars. I can't imagine Tony would want to go to jail with AJ at 13 and Meadow still in High School--Knowing that with him behind bars they'd never go to an Ivy League School and that AJ might fall into some gang and end up like him.

Do you think that their sympathy for Pussy, and their giving him a relatively dignified death, comes from the fact that, besides loving him like a brother, they knew deep down that if they had been placed in that piss poor position--rat on your friends and get to have a life with your family, don't rat and spend pretty much the rest of your life in jail--they would've made the same decision as Pussy?

When you think about it, Pussy, Silvio, Tony, and Jackie Aprile Sr all wanted the same thing: They wanted good, respectable lives for their kids, far away from the Mafia and did what they did to provide for their kids.

Only one of those guys was ever actually put to the test of what came first, Family or family: Puss.

Interesting point. I think you're right; they probably did figure that the guy had no choice - for all the big talk about Omerta and "our thing" and keeping quiet, 30 years isn't something to scoff at. I'm willing to bet that's why they gave him such a dignified death instead of just whacking him like any other mook a la Jimmy Altieri (who was a Capo himself, I don't recall if Pussy was actually a capo or just a button man), because they knew he he had no choice. Neither did they in killing him, which is why Pussy relegated himself to his fate.

Puss was a Soldier, a made guy who had served in Tony's crew and had also served as a Soldier under Tony's father Johnny Boy.

Pussy would've been promotded to Capo/Underboss in Season 2 if Tony's subconscious didn't "know" that Puss was a rat. All throughout Season 2, Tony, deep down, knows Pussy's a rat, but doesn't want to confront it and the outcome of finding it out, so he buried it...until that fever dream. As such Paulie got the promotion instead. Had there been no suspicion, Pussy would've made Underboss or Consigliere.

At the time of the beginning of the series, Junior, Ray Curto, Paulie and Pussy were the guys who went back in the family the longest. All had been associates or made guys since the '60s. All the other guys didn't come up till later on, in the '70s and '80s.

Right. So I think that's why Pussy got a "dignified" death (inasmuch as being shot multiple times by three of your best friends and having your body dumped in the ocean counts as "dignified") instead of just being whacked outright like Jimmy was and being made clear as a rat (and having Chris call a bomb threat to his wake just for shits and giggles); Jimmy might have been a Capo but he was just a guy in the family with a rank, he wasn't close to the Street Boss and other long-time guys like Pussy was.

Sort of like Sal Tessio's death in the first Godfather. We see all of the other Dons be wiped out in a bloody blaze of glory and vengeance, Carlo strangled to death for his treachery...But Sal Tessio's betrayal is handled with dignity, even when outed he's treated with respect (Cicci saying to Tessio "Excuse me, Sal" as he pats him down), with a quiet march to the car and to his death off screen. Because he'd been the Don's friend for so long he got a dignified death.

Pussy was sort of the Tessio of the Family, the stoic sort of stone wiseguy who'd been around since "the beginning", was more level headed and smarter than some, and beloved...And he fell by making a deal with the Enemy because he thought it'd allow him to continue eating.

I can't see Anthony giving everybody up and giving his children the father of a rat. Anthony grew up and his dad hated rats same as Junior Soprano. I can see Sil giving it away, He wasn't much of a fighter.

I gotta disagree. The only thing which stopped Junior from flipping when he was busted was he'd have to admit Tony was the real boss--He pauses, considers the idea and his ego and pride wouldn't allow it.

if season six [part 2] never happened and instead tonys crew gets taken down, tony is looking at serious time. any guy in the whole series can implicate him. even aj can get him on gun charges.lol. hes looking at life plus 100 at best. he takes one look at the people who have ratted on him, larry barese, ray, gene ponticorvo. he then looks at meadow, who he loves above all things in the world. and shes crying becuase she will never be able to see her father again. and he realizes there is no honor in the life, there is no one left. who does he have to impress? paulie? patsy? new york? he looks back at the judge and says 'fuck it'. he gives up anyone and everyone he can so he even has the slightest chance to see meadow again.

can you see tony loving 'the life' more than his daughter? i dont think so.

Sol maybe. Tony no way

Right now, it's impossible imagining Tony or Sil flipping but if they were in the same situation Pussy Bonpensiero was in, they would have likely ratted.

more chance of tony ratting then silvio. tony is very selfish so if he was given life or rat i would say he would rat personally.

They'd both rat. We'd all rat. If you're still youngish and you've got kids and you're facing 30 years in the can theres something wrong with you if you don't rat.

I always find the fiercely loyal guys the strangest. The unwaveringly loyal ones are usually the psychos. They happily kill and manipulate for a living but they'll lose their freedom forever to keep their buddies out of jail??? Fuck that!!!

He may not rat but i wouldn't trust a guy like that not to put a bullet in my head over something innocuous like a spilled drink. He clearly isn't a sane, rational guy.

Omertà only makes sense when you fear the consequences of telling more than the consequences of not telling. Whether thats because you fear god (the making ceremony), fear yourself (guilt/suicide) or you fear your gang, those are only excuses for not ratting. Other than that, as nice and idealistic as it sounds, Omertà is a concept for psychos and goes against everything that comes natural to our basic animal instincts.

Wasn't Tony a rat?

Yeah they whacked him first series.

Technically he ratted on those Arab guys.

Sil would've flipped. He got hit because he was late & unprepared; going in the back reaching for his gun while being shot he should've kept it on him, this was CODE RED for Christ sake. Get a sholder holster or something jeez.

My point being he played the strong silent type but was weak after all.

Only way I would have flipped is if my family and I are in the witness protection program a la Henry Hill.

I would never do what Pussy did - be in the game wearing wires, etc in an effort to take down the big score. Too much risk.

I feel Tony would rat before Silvio

Easier to picture Tony entering the courtroom and getting on the stand,testifying. I can also see Silvio's face as he's at the defense table while Tony points to him for the prosecution.

It would really depend on Tony's love for his family.Even though Tony is really not a decent human being,he might take a jail sentence to give Meadow the chance to achieve her goals.She is really the only bright spot in the immediate family. Carmela has no ambition and no future, and A.J.'s career path and lack of any employable skills will land him in a middle management position rigging carnival games. Meadow is his little girl,and a constant source of joy. To rob her of a future by making her live in hiding would kill Tony,and I believe that he would sacrifice his freedom for her.
On the other hand,if Tony does flip,I see him having no problem looking Sil right in the eye from the stand.

If Sil decided to rat,I think he would do it as a practical decision. He is usually the coolest head of the group and if he did flip,I think he would have a major problem looking Tony in the eye as he testified.

Nobody can know or not because he's fake and him ratting or not depends on Chase deciding

Mr. Eyes;
Excellent point.Check and mate.

I think for a guy to rat is worse for his family then just doing the time like a man. Think about it, yeah, your away for a while, but your family is still in the same place; and they don't gotta droop their head when they walk outside. Whereas, when a guy flips, his family alot of the time has to pick up and leave their whole lives behind them. And if they stay; they cant walk around with their heads held high.
End of the day, being a rat is only for the mans sake; he can justify in his head however he wants, but when it comes down to it, its just as detrimental if not more to force your family to move and change identities than anything else.

No chance..

Why not?

No offence Nicky but you shouldn't be posting in this part of the site then because 90% of the Sopranos threads can be boringly answered with a response like yours.

Not true at all

Why is it not true?

I looked through the topics on the first page and maybe 5 were hypothetical questions like this one.

After reading through the first page myself you're right, but sttill you shouldn't post on hypothetical threads if you don't like them because it ruins the discussion some people enjoy on these types of questions.

Fair enough