If Ralphie Didn't Fight Back . . . .

Do you think Tony would have killed him anyway?

I see no upside to the murder.

Ralphie, scumbag that he was, was a tremendous earner, and never showed the slightest inclination towards becoming a rat. And with Carmela constantly nagging Tony about money, I think he would have kept Ralphie around for awhile.

So if Ralphie just stood there and denied doing an the insurance job on Pie-O-My, and didn't raise his hands to Tony, do you think Tony would have killed him anyway?

Did he go over there with Ralphie's fate sealed, or was it truly spur-of-the-moment?

Anyone?

I think Ralphie's fate was sealed from the moment he killed the stripper and Tony was just looking for an excuse. I think at that moment anything Ralphie did or said would have just been seized upon as justification. Even if he had done the human equivalent of a dog rolling on its back and baring its neck in submission, he was done.

I think that Tony was at least going to give Ralphie a stern confontation - maybe shove him around a little and provoke a minor altercation. With Ralphie all but admitting to setting the fire and constant insubordination, Tony was then going to give him a beating. When Ralphie fought back aggressively and sprayed the bug spay in Tony's eyes - that was it. Tony completey lost it and that sealed Ralphie's fate.

I agree. Tony was just itching to put Ralph down. After the confrontation between the two after the discovery of the strippers body behind the bing, Ralph was living on borrowed time.



Alot of folks, including my girlfriend, feel as if Ralph did admit to setting the fire, but I never bought it. It could have been Ralph, but the way that Joe Pantoliano delivers he line "but so what if I did?" (or something along those lines) in reference to whether or not he set the fire was always interpreted by me not as an admitance of guilt but as an act of defiance. Ralphs rationality being that even if he did set the fire (which for arguements sake lets say he didn't) he couldnt be touched for doing so because Pie-o-My's death earned them both money, something Ralph was very good at doing.

In "University", when Tony hits Ralphie behind the Bing!, it's not because he's killed Tracee but because he casually shrugs it off as just another by-product of This Thing Of Ours: "It's my fault she's a klutz?" In "Whoever Did This", the moment at which Tony hits Ralphie is after the latter questions Tony's emotional investment in an animal, referring to the fact he eats "beef and sausage by the fucking car load".

Both times, Tony lashes out in response to being faced with his own moral contradictions and having them exposed. That the first of these scenes happens in front of others and that the second scene is private shows that it's not about 'saving face' for Tony, it's something much more simple and childlike. When forced to face his own emotional immaturity, he turns to violence. We see him do it time and time again with Melfi whenever she approaches anything resembling 'progress' in Tony's therapy.

Ralphie is a hoodlum in extremis; worse than merely a loose cannon, he's rational with it. He's very clever, and it's a great, intelligent performance by Joe Pantoliano.

Tony is a highly dysfunctional, self-destructive character; he kills Christopher too without much calculation. In the Season 6B episode "Remember When", he also tries to force Paulie into admitting to something he already knows but doesn't care about (the Ginny Sack joke), so that he can justify killing Paulie for becoming too porous under pressure - an increasing worry with the FBI chasing would-be informants - but when Tony sees the scenario through and has to finally deal with his own irrationality, he settles for a babyish compromise: he violently throws a bottle at Paulie for him to catch - you can liken that sort of reaction to when he punches the wall in "Whitecaps" when Carmela tells him of her fantasising over Furio.

I don't think Ralphie was 'living on borrowed time' anymore than anybody else living on Tony's periphery, and I don't think the reason for this 'borrowed time' is anything to do with Tony's moral logic. The ambiguity as to who Tony is referring to when choking Ralphie to death and saying, "She was a beautiful little creature, what did she ever do to you? You fucking killed her," is telling: Tracee or Pie-O-My? Does it even matter when the reasoning is so irrational anyway?

Great insight Capo de La Cosa Nostra.

I feel that,given Tony's downward spiral in the second part of season 2,if the show had continued,it was only a matter of time before "getting clipped for wearing the wrong shoes" as Albert Barese put it would have become a strong possibility.

Though I agree with most of what you say here, you have to remember that Tony hated Ralphie, and therefor was in more danger of getting whacked than anyone else.

I actually don't think he hated him any more than he did anybody else at any point in the show. And by the point of "Whoever Did This", the "University" thing is dead and buried, mostly due to Ralphie progressing to Tony's highest earner. Money speaks.

I agree with Mick.

I think that Tony---due to his childlike temper---was capable of killing anyone in his criminal life on the spur of the moment. I think that Ralphie was at the point where, due to his son's condtion at the time, wasn't going to lay down to one of Tony's tantrums. And if he didn't have Justin weighing on his mind, he probably wouldn't have even argued the point with Tony. But he was full of remorse over his son and just didn't give a shit anymore. And it cost him his life.

I agree with Lilo. Once he had killed the stripper Ralphies' days were numbered!

If you re-watch the final two episodes of Season Three, even by that point the whole Tracee thing is water under the bridge. Ralphie tells Jackie Jr. that years back he was part of the quartet that included Tony, Silvio and Jackie Aprile, Sr. Though he's new on the scene as a character in Season Three, Ralphie and Tony have a history. I doubt that would all go to waste over a girl who was quite expendable to both of them.

Tracee's murder is only the catalyst by which Tony finally lashes out at Ralphie after the latter has been pushing buttons with his generally irritating behaviour. For Tony, it's more of a legal worry than a moral issue - a dead body on Bada Bing! grounds ("You disrespect this place") is a major inconvenience to him. That's how these guys think.

Tony never hates Ralphie for killing Tracee; in the same episode in which Tracee is killed, Tony's own indifference to her existence is quite obvious. Tony's disdain for Ralphie in the episodes following "University" is much more childish: it's because he doesn't want to lose face after having hit Ralphie, a made guy, in front of others; it's because he doesn't want to concede that he was wrong to do so; finally, it's simply because Ralphie refused a drink Tony offered him in symbolic apology.

Tony's 'disdain' for Ralphie is just plain stubbornness - it's often what makes him a respected, feared leader, but it's also what makes him an asshole.

By the end of Season Three, Tony is favouring Ralphie over Paulie in sit-downs. The whole shock of Ralphie's murder in "Whoever Did This" comes from the very notion that Ralphie's days were not numbered.

Good points Mick but the real reason Tony killed Ralphie was because it was in the script.....so he had to do it

Haha, yes, I suppose so.

Tony was obviously close to Pie-o-My. (I love that scene in the barn where Tony just sits with the horse and a couple of the farm animals as Dean Martin's "My Rifle My Pony And Me" plays in the background.) But I think Capo's right: ultimately, Tony's reasons for killing Ralphie were simply an extension of his erratic, irrational sociopathic personality.

I watched this episode again earlier today. When Christopher arrives at Ralphie's place, Tony immediately denies killing Ralphie himself and - knowing fine well the transparency of his argument - tries to preach to Christopher, not rationally, about how much of an asshole Ralphie was.

He knows it's an absolute irrational act on his part and that Christopher rightfully sees it that way.

I've always felt that scene mirrored the scene in "The Knight in White Satin Armor," where Christopher helps dispose of Richie's body.

"Whoever Did This" is a great episode, and it - like many of his scenes in general - belongs to Joe Pantoliano. He's dead for the episode's second half of course - though even posthumously the wig gag is a hoot - but before then we get to see the full range of his acting. Calling Paulie's mother, the desperation of his face as he runs to call 911 for Justin (that tracking shot is brilliant!), his reconciliation with Rosalie, and his final scene... He's one of my favourite characters in the show.

Narratively, it's a somewhat contrived set-up having Ralphie prank-call Nucci then have his son hospitalised then having Tony tell him of Valentina then having him accused of something (I'm convinced) he didn't even do and then of course, killed. It's contrived because it's obviously meant to create both a moral ambivalence in the viewer toward Ralphie, and also with the emphasis on Justin's accident nobody expects him to be murdered by Tony.

Saying that, it's strengths lie in the editing, directing and acting, as ever. Two seemingly insignificant shots forewarn us early on of two major scenes later in the same episode. The first of these sees Ralphie lying in the bath when the maid frantically tells him of Justin's accident - his impatience with her suggests he'd much rather bathe in peace than be disturbed by her, regardless of the immediacy in her voice; as it turns out, absurd irony sees Ralphie's corpse chopped up in that very bath. The second scene is when Tony physically restrains Ralph in the hospital after the latter tussles briefly with his Justin's mother and her husband; Tony is both the literal and physical voice of reason here - later, in Ralphie's kitchen, he's the absolute loose cannon that takes a life without much thought or regret.

You don't think Ralphie was responsible for torching the barn, Mick?

I don't know if Tony would have killed Ralphie purely due to the Tracee scenario. I think without doubt Tony was disgusted by the act and wouldn't have cared too much if Ralph were to pass naturally...
I genuinely think it was Tony's love for animals (and in particular Pie-o-my) and Tony's manic depressive rage that killed Ralphie.
It was clear Tony disliked Ralphie but I think if almost anyone had killed Pie-o-my (hurt an animal for money) for insurance money and also caught Tony in a manic depressive/rage state/mood, they more than likely would have faced the same fate. How many times did we see Georgie the barkeep copp it for little annoyances?
Tony's bad moods = danger for anyone in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think he would have been killed anyway. His fate was sealed as soon as Tony went to go see him. I dont think Tony initially had that intention. But deep down, he knew he was going to kill Ralphie.

I seriously think it was a "heat of the moment" thing. Obviously Tony hated Ralphie, But I doubt he had plans on taking him out. Ralphies smart mouth sealed his fate.

I think that is right on. Plus Tony's compassion for animals throughout the series is well noted. Melfi even points out that Tony has shed tears for animals but not for humans.

Exactly. And that plays a significant role throughout the series. And this specific event just proves that.

I 100% agree.

I always felt it was a spur of the moment thing. Tony wasn't sure, but then Ralphie grew tired of the inquiries and started taunting him. Next thing you knew they were fighting and that was it. But this murder bothered me more than any of the other killings in that show. Not because of the brutality or anything like that, but because of losing this character. Ralph Cifaretto was to me, the most interesting guy on that show.

I agree. You may have detested the character, but you definitely missed him after he was gone.

Ralphie: Mrs. Marianucci Gualtieiri?
Nucci: Yes?
Ralphie: Hi, this is Detective Mike Hunt, Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania police department. Do you have a son Peter Paul?
Nucci: Oh, my God! What happened?
Ralphie: He's all right, ma'am, but I'm afraid he's in a little trouble. We found him in a public men's room in Lafayette Park. Ahhh ma'am, I don't know how to put this delicately...he was sucking on a cub scout's dick!
Nucci: What? No, it's a mistake.
Ralphie: Ma'am, I wish that was all, but, uh, we also had to have emergency surgery performed upon arrival at headquarters, after discovery of a small rodent in the rectal passage.
Nucci: OH, MY GOD!

Thinking about that scene makes me miss him too damn much. Shame on the producers for killing him.

A gerbil ma'am...