Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL

I just wanted to be the first to post the start of this last episode thread.

Remember we thought Made In America was going to be the title of the first episode? Anyway, kind of late to speculate, but interesting title. I wonder what it implies. Someone new gets made? I can't wait!!

TIS
http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/img/homepage/season06B/img_ep86_03.jpg

Episode 86
I'm no numerologist, but you cannot ignore the potential significance.

Used as a verb, to "eighty-six" means to "ignore" or "get rid of"
Another theory has it that this is rhyming slang for "nix." Interestingly, this seems to be an American coinage, unusual for rhyming slang.[1]

Another explanation is that Chumley's, which was a famous 1900s New York speakeasy, is located at 86 Bedford St. During Prohibition, an entrance through an interior adjoining courtyard was used, as it provided privacy and discretion for customers. As was a New York tradition, the cops were on the payroll of the bar and would give a ring to the bar that they were coming for a raid. The bartender would then give the command "86 everybody!", which meant that everyone should hightail it out the 86 Bedford entrance because the cops were coming in through the courtyard door.
The term came into popular use among soldiers and veterans to describe missing soldiers as 86'd. Rather than describe buddies missing in action, it was slang to describe the MIA as violating UCMJ Sub Chapter X Article 86.

Another explanation is the possibility of a simple variation of the slang term deep six, which has identical meaning, and is simply meant to describe the approximate depth of a grave.

86 (number)

Over 35 years later we are still commenting on the Trilogy. Are we going to do the same re the Sopranos? I wonder what its shelf life will be.

The Sopranos will be talked about like the way I Love Lucy is talked today. With the show now airing on A&E, The Sopranos got millions of new fans. The show will be the goldstandard of television for years.

What about on these Boards though?

It'll be talked about for 86 years here (see second post above).

Yea, and if I'm still around in five or ten years, some newbie will say to me, "Hey TIS, who's your avator?"


(To the powers that be, thanks for adding the Possible Spoilers to the thread title. I should have thought of it.)

TIS

I have read so many possible spoilers,

Who knows what will happen, but it should hopefully make for great television.

Last episode Tony was draining the pool. Remember my finale scene about Tony sitting by the empty pool when the ducks return? Could happen.

Olivant, in your scenario, is Ade dressed in a duck costume perchance???

The idea of that quacks me up.

Don't encourage him.

James Gandolfin looks past The Sopranos.

James Gandolfini Looks Past 'Sopranos'
By FRAZIER MOORE, AP Television Writer
4 hours ago

NEW YORK - There was no decisive moment, no seismic shift, no ceremony when James Gandolfini put "The Sopranos" behind him. But he has. Comfortably.

"I was told that it would be a transition," he says and shakes his head. "Not much. It's very calming to move on."

Gandolfini, of course, had played gangster-in-therapy Tony Soprano _ earning raves, clout and unsought celebrity _ since the HBO drama premiered in January 1999.

Now there's only one piece of unfinished business. The finale, which airs Sunday at 9 p.m. EDT, will bring to a close a saga as powerful and oddly relatable as anything ever seen on TV. This conclusion, however satisfying or disappointing, will surely leave "Sopranos" fans wanting more.

But not Gandolfini.

"The character has been with me for so long," he says, "it's a relief to let him go."

No wonder. For 86 episodes, Gandolfini submerged himself in that fiendish, tormented character. He channeled the dark world of "Sopranos" creator David Chase. He was regularly summoned to his own psychic danger zone. All in all, the experience was "wearing," he says.

There also was a physical toll. "The Sopranos" revolves around Tony, which meant Gandolfini had an exhausting workload.

"But in a way, being tired helped me play the character. If the guy had to look good and be handsome and happy, the hours we worked would certainly not help. They helped ME a great deal," he laughs. "I was allowed to be grumpy and tired and look like (crap)."

That was then. Whatever awaits Tony in the series-ender _ prison, death or some sort of escape _ Gandolfini has already laid him to rest.

Time after time, Gandolfini felt the end at Silvercup Studios in Queens, and on locations such as Tony's home turf of northern New Jersey. All during April, members of the large "Sopranos" cast would shoot their last scene with him, then leave forever. Then he'd shoot a last scene with another cast member, who would disappear.

"There wasn't any grand finale," he says.

Or was there? Gandolfini suddenly remembers his last scene alongside Steven Van Zandt, who since the beginning played Tony's loyal consigliere Silvio.

"This is no indication of my feelings toward anyone else, but, for some reason, that really hit me when he left. Wow!"

Speaking to a reporter at HBO headquarters last week, Gandolfini, who recently signed a production deal with the network, was taking a break from screening footage for a documentary he's making about U.S. soldiers in Iraq who recover from near-fatal injuries.

Dressed casually in short sleeves, chinos and running shoes, the 45-year-old actor is down-to-earth and deferential, yet remains a formidable presence even without Tony's cockiness and mobster cred. His voice, while reflecting his New Jersey background, is richer, more robust than Tony's astringent delivery.

Though famously press-shy ever since "The Sopranos" blindsided him with stardom, Gandolfini has consented to this rare interview. Nursing coffee from a foam cup, he shares nearly an hour in agreeable give-and-take, only drawing the line when one too many questions delves into his acting technique: "Oh, please! Who gives a (crap)!" he scoffs. "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be abrupt."

He misses no chance to deflect credit toward his colleagues.

"I might be in a lot of scenes, but the crew is in EVERY scene," he points out. "The crew is there 16 hours a day, every day.

"And the cast totally propped me up in many scenes. After three or four scenes sometimes I was adrift, and because (the editor) could cut to such other good actors, they were there to help me."

It was a two-way street, according to Michael Imperioli, who played Tony's hothead nephew Christopher, now dead (thanks to Tony's cold-hearted intervention) after a car crash a few episodes ago.

"Every time you go and do a scene with this guy," Imperioli said at the start of the season, "he manages to give 105 percent. That rubs off. That makes YOU work harder."

"I had the greatest sparring partner in the world, I had Muhammad Ali," said Lorraine Bracco, who, as Tony's psychiatrist Dr. Melfi, went one-on-one with Gandolfini in their penetrating therapy scenes. "He cares what he does, and does it extremely well."

Saying goodbye to the crew and his co-stars _ yes, that was hard, Gandolfini concedes, even if saying goodbye to Tony wasn't.

Also hard: no more of those magnificent "Sopranos" scripts.

"Good writing will bring you to places you don't even expect sometimes," he marvels, meaning himself, and how the material could catch him off guard and take him somewhere new, even as he was performing it.

"It's a ride that I was along on, with everybody else," he says.

And like everybody else, he can't help feeling appalled by Tony's brutish misbehavior. After shooting a scene where Tony did something despicable, Gandolfini would sometimes upbraid his own character.

"I would shake my head and say, God, what a _!" Whereupon he helpfully substitutes his unpublishable outburst with a family friendly version: "What a jerk!"

So what's the truth? Does he like this jerk who was part of him for so long?

"I used to," he says. "But it's difficult toward the end. I think the thing with Christopher might have turned the corner." That was a soulless display: Fed up with his nephew's shortcomings, Tony pinched shut the nostrils of the gravely hurt Christopher, ensuring he would choke to death.

But wait! Gandolfini thinks a moment, and more of Tony's recent misdeeds _ not homicidal, but clearly depraved _ come to mind: "Maybe the gambling thing with Hesh. And maybe the thing with Tony Sirico (as Paulie Walnuts) on the boat.

"It's kind of one thing after another. Let's just say, it was a lot easier to like him in the beginning, than in the last few years."

But back then, maybe it wasn't so easy for Gandolfini to like himself. Early on, he felt a stronger kinship with Tony, mostly stemming from "that infantile temper that I certainly possessed much more of when I was younger."

Meanwhile, the writers fleshed out Tony by cribbing from Gandolfini _ in particular, his temper.

"In the first year, maybe they would see that sometimes when I have anger, it's very funny. So they go with that. When I break something, it's funny. So they're gonna put it in again. And then I realize that I'm continually breaking things. So then I'm getting more angry because I have to continue breaking things. And then they decide, `Well, we've broken enough (stuff).'

"It was a learning process for all of us, I think."

All in the service of David Chase's vision. Pantomiming the pull Chase exerted over him (like everything on "The Sopranos"), Gandolfini playfully hooks his index finger in the corner of his mouth as if he were a trout at the end of Chase's line.

A decade ago, Gandolfini was certainly hooked when he read Chase's pilot script. A little-known character actor in his mid-30s (and the son of working-class parents who had grown up in Park Ridge, N.J.), he knew Tony was a role he was born to play. He also realized the cards were stacked against a beefy, balding, little-known actor landing the role.

But four years earlier, he'd made a brief appearance in Tony Scott's comically bloody thriller, "True Romance": a two-fisted confrontation with its star, Patricia Arquette. That performance won him his audition for Tony.

"True Romance" was also Edie Falco's first peek at the actor with whom she would be wed cinematically as Tony's wife, Carmela.

"I sort of knew the name James Gandolfini," Falco recalled. "Then I watched the film, and he's in a scene where he beats the living daylights out of a woman. I thought, `Ohhhhhhh, OK. Welllll, let's see how THIS goes.'"

And how did it go? "It was maybe the most perfect working relationship," she said.

Now it's over. One concluding episode, shrouded in secrecy, remains to be aired. The Soprano home has been struck from Studio X at Silvercup. And Gandolfini, now done with Tony, is looking ahead to other roles, perhaps as Ernest Hemingway in a film he's developing for HBO.

"I don't even think I've proven myself, yet," he says. "The Tony character was from New Jersey, I'm from New Jersey _ there's not a lot of stretching going on, here." Then he pauses, reconsiders, gives himself some credit. "In some ways, there is." He shrugs. "In a LOT of ways.

"But I have yet to begin the fight, I think."

It sounds like he's very content to say goodbye to Tony Soprano.

People here said they lost all respect for Tony for what he did to Christopher. It appears he feels the same way.

Yeah, I noticed that too Beth. It's nice that Gandolfini has an open minded view of the character, that he can detatch himself enough to not feel sorry for him.

Until I read that article, I never realized that you rarely saw Lorraine Bracco unless she was interacting with Gandolfini. Those must have been tough to film.

Btw, 45???!! He's not aging well, is he?

Ade is not in my pool scenario. However, she is lurking in the shadows around Satriale's.

I'm not buying most of this, but I actually like it.

That'd work for me if it pans out.

Well, this fits with some pictures one Board member posted earlier this week and someone else's reference to an ice cream parlor. But there could be alternate endings filmed.

I am doing sooooo good not opening or listening to any spoilers. I can honestly say, so far, I have no inclination of how the series will end. I know there is a lot of speculation, and I am curious on some of these spoilers that you guys have posted, but with only two days to go, I can wait.


TIS

You sure you don't want to know the spoilers Tissie? I'll bribe you with some pork chops and spare ribs.

Well, stop at the store and grab some more grub, and I'll fire up the grill. I'll give you a few days to get here.

TIS

I highly doubt the episode would open with that scene, without any buildup. Some of the ideas are pretty interesting though.

James Gandolfini is on Inside the actor's studio now.

(It's an old episode. It was from about 2 years ago).

EDIT! James says how some real life wiseguys talk to him about the authenticity of the show. One actually got mad at him when he wore shorts in a cookout. He said dons don't wear short. Who knew.

I got this from on high, so it must be true.

AJ joins a seminary and Meadow becomes a nun. Carmela joins Opus Dei along with Tony. They convert everyone to peace and love. However, as time goes by different religious factions emerge and they end up killng each other.

Damn! Now you ruined it for me!


TIS

It must be a Jersey don thing.

They played a clip from Gandolfini's role in The man who wasn't there with Billy Bob Thorton. At one point in the scene he cries, "I don't know what to do", or something to that affect. I half expected Billy Bob to get up and slap him and yell, "You can act like a man".

That was actually in an episode from season 4. Carmine Sr told Tony at a barbecue at his house that a don doen't wear shorts.

I really think the shorts are central to Tony's psyche. There's a part of him, the part who reached out for therapy, that wants to be the guy next door, wearing the shorts and barbecuing. An American everyman. Then there's his dark side, which always wins out.

IMHO, that's why Gandolfini was cast. He really looks like the guy next door (when he's not killing people). I think they deliberately didn't cast the guy with the dark eyes, olive skin and thick black hair, for that very reason.


Gandolfini is certainly Italian-American, but he's got an everyman look to him. That's what makes him perfect in the role.

Maybe Carmine was playing the real Don. James said he actually does get feedback from the real mafia, and one actually told him they don't wear shorts.

I'm sure he does. I was just speaking of Tony's desire to be a "normal" guy.

BTW - I've seen wiseguys wear shorts to Long Beach, with black socks and white shoes.

And I'm not kidding.

Better hope his fellow wise guys don't get wind of that. He might get whacked just for that.

I never saw the movie The Mexican, but in it Gandolfini plays a gay hit man. Too bad Vito never knew of that crew..haha.

YO NOVICE. You slipped under the radar - First Post - a good one; very observant. I was aware of the Chumley's story as it relates to "86". Great NY story. Hang in. It takes a few posts before the folks here realize there is a newbie on the boards. Check out the rest of the board, you will be pleasantly entertained.

No, he's not. He looks 10 years older than that. It's the weight. Hopefully, for his own sake, he'll lose it now that the show is over.

Pizzaboy, you took the words right out of my mouth! I've read articles in the past that said Chase told Gandolfini and Van Zandt to gain weight. Van Zant has gained 45 pounds since the pilot was shot, I'd say Gandolfini is in that area too. Maybe those layers of fat slowed the shot fired Junior, thus saving Tony!

Tony gets shot by Melfi.

In the episode of Inside the Actor's studio Gandolfini was on he indicated how through the years he's been small and fat. He said for the character of Tony Soprano it works when he's heavier. Be it the way he walks or folds his arms it really changes the character when he's heavier. I think that makes sense.

I think we've the last of Melfi, Smitty.

A half hour into the show. I wonder who's died so far.

this is boring...

40 minutes into and this show sucks!

loved the series, but the ending sucked big time.. Big booo

I wonder how long it'll take before someone puts it on youtube.

So what happened?

for a minute i thought my power went off there at the end, i nearly freaked out!

dumb!

There must be millions and millons of people watching this tonight and I'm telling you that this was a big fuckin disappointment. Fuckin Chase should be hung up my his balls and beat with a baseball bat.


Chase just fucked us all..big time!

WHAT HAPPENED fathersson?

Wait.. so what just happened.. that was the ending??

Nothing happened. Just ended with them in a resturant, Tony, Meadow, AJ, Carm..

Mead couldnt park her car.

The tension was so high and BAM!

I actually thought it was kinda cool in a way. I'm glad it wasn't all wrapped up in a nice neat package - this isn't Seinfeld.

And if there ever is a movie, we got plenty left to work with.

(DAMN! The Russian didn't return!)

I cant believe I stayed up for that shit!!!

I really hope it's over. I think a movie would be disappointing.

This was a chance, the viewership was the highest tonight and nothing.

I loved this series, but that was total crap, not cool, not nothing, it totally sucked.

I was loving the episode up until the final scene where there is NO conclusion! The scene where Phil gets killed was outstanding. I think it's clear that there will be a movie.

I take it neither did Ade.

I've added Chase to my list of people who I will kick in the balls if I ever run into them. He is right up there with OJ Simpson.

i'll say i was tense, i kept thinking the one guy with the hat was either from new york out for revenge...or was a fed getting ready for a sting.

What the fuck...

Seriously.

Hey, Bob made an appearance with "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding".

I want to break my 61" HD TV right now.

so....who thinks a movie will come out of this?

Wow, not good in the least...possible setup for things to come, or a big FUCK YOU to the audience? Crime don't pay, huh? What sorry, weak BS.

Movie? I doubt it.. It will be pre-Tony.

James G is working on something now and supposedly has something lined up.

I think I read the earliest he can start a movie is like 2010

Loving It? ? ? ?

This was worst them making us wait 18 months between seasons.
Build us up for this? Talk about a royal screwing.

If Chase makes a movie then people should not show up for it

what was that????

that whole last scene in the restaurant i thought something would happen either with that guy who walked in front of aj, or meadow...but nothing

but something about it i kinda liked idk

i hope there isnt a movie that would hurt the series

I have almost the same feeling now that I had when I got about 1/4 of the way into reading "The Godfather Returns".

Chase Is Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was Tony dreaming all thus? Wasn't he in the resturant in the clothes he wore to see Junior in and saw himself seating there?

So, Carlo flips, but we don't see any of it. Phil gets shot and then has his head crushed by a car, which I think Plaw would have loved, after the whole Frank Vincent thing. Paulie's superstitious. AJ sets fire to his car and becomes a movie executive. Meadow can't parallel park and is marrying Patsy, Jr. Tony might be indicted and Carlo might testify.

Did I miss anything??

Now I'm all kinds of confused. Were you all watching the same show?

that's true ryno....i did notice that it seemed like he might have been wearing something else.

Carlo is going to testify.

9 PM is your bedtime?

Anyway, please. I think Chase is great. He films three different endings, the other two probably being a happy and sad one, and with all the "what'll happen to Tony?" hype, he simply left it to your imagination. Tony may have gotten killed, may have been happy, and maybe the feds built their case to finally bring him down.

So what if you didn't see it? It's your call, and let's be honest, not one of us watched those last few minutes and didn't have a racing heartbeat. Chase played with our emotions like a violin, and then took the wind out of us, without giving in to expectation.

im not going that far, but there is something about that ending that i liked, jus lost by having no conclusion

Does anyone else think that the DVD is going to include several different endings, and will sell millions?

Chase must die!

How long do you think it will take the dvd to come out?

No, I think they were rushed in an ending and couldn't decide if a ending should let Tony be killed, arrested, so they did this one. It was horrible. Chase is good, but he shit the bed here and it's funny people can't admit it.

I find it hard to believe they had several different endings, it would be like second guessing yourself.

its just a life goes on ending.

Fuckin' awesome ending!!!!!

I thought my cable went out at the end.... but the suspense was real!! Think about it - ANYTHING could happen or NOTHING could happen... just because Chase doesn't tell us what happens makes it all the better.... WAY TO GO, DAVID!!!

Did they ever said what happened with her and Finn?

Ade pulled the plug on the last two minutes when the series WAS really tied up.

BTW - That cat and Christopher freaked me out.

I hope your joking, after all the lead up, this whole epsiode sucked. The war ended up being a joke. Phil's guys are going to turn on him like that?

I still say Tony dreamed all this as he entered the joint in the clothes he visited Junior in.

It would have been better if he just woke up and Kevin Finnery.

I was highly disapointed. For a show to be as awesome as it was at one time to go out like that...

Anyone who thinks this was rushed needs to stop pushing their disappointment. Chase said he always had an idea on how it would end. Because of the hype that builds a cult classic, he wanted to kill it.

I like how the last thing heard is Journey, "Don't stop!"

Am I to take it that the show just stopped, and you don't really know HOW it ended?

There were some terrific moments. The scene between Janice and Tony was wonderful. I also loved the scene between Tony and Sil. No need for words, was there??? And AJ mispronouncing Yeats made me laugh.

However, I don't like the way that they dismissed Tony and Melfi. After seven years, that was a disservice to both of them.:(

It will be interesting to see how ratings would be for a movie after this? I am sure there will be major blowout about this in the media.

Well, if Sil's in a coma.............haha.

yes

Line of the night goes to Agent Harris when the other agent tells him Phil got capped. ahah Oh man, that was hilarious.

Also, I love how many people David Chase just pissed off with that ending. It was perfect.

Well i don't think he originally wanted tony to die anyways. I had read somewhere a few years ago, after Nancy Marchant died, that chase was originally planning on ending the series with Livia's death. But due to Nancy's untimely death the whole series changed its course. Man sometimes i think about how different the series could have turned out if Livia was still around.

Exactly right Vercetti.

Not joking at all.... its Chase's style NOT to tie things up and he didn't sell out at the end. I'm happy for that!!

Those last few minutes were as suspenseful as anything I've seen on tv. I think a lot of people will think that. Kudos to Chase for giving our collective imaginations some exercise.

BTW - Who is to say that all those "suspicious" looking guys in the ice cream parlor aren't really Tony's bodyguards? Who is to say that they simply don't like ice cream and happened to be there at the same time as Tony? Who is to say that they weren't there to whack Tony?? We'll never know now, except for the deep recesses of our own imagination.

Beth, You see Carm, Tony and AJ all arriving and sitting down at the restaurant. Different people are sitting around, you don't know if Tony should be worried about them or not. Tony tells Carm that Carlo is supposed to testify against him. AJ wants onion rings, and Meadow is outside trying to parallel park, which takes her about 5 tries. She finally parks and walks across the street to the restaurant, the bell over the door of the restaurant jingles, and the screen goes blank.

I know you're joking!~

Tension at the end? More tension when Paulie walked into the Bing at it was empty.

I think I'm I'd be on the bandwagon with the others who are pissed.

I don't know what to think, really. I'm not sure to be pissed off or what anymore.

I've had some time to think about it, and I'm starting to accept the ending. I guess I was hoping for some kind of definitive closure, but instead will have to use my imagination.

Thats OK.... those who are pissed didn't see the show either.

Who didn't think we were going to get a GF III ending with Meadow taking a bullet meant for Tony, when she walked in?

No, I am not.. You keep saying Tension at the end. How could someone get shot when Tony walks in and is watching himself there?

This episode sucked, It will be ripped in the media tomorrow as it was probably the highest watched show tonight.

I wouldn't touch the movie after this performance, just sad two of you can't see what others are saying, especially after the huge build up.

Thanks Chase for all the years, but of that is the best you can end with, good riddance.

"Who will you run to"

"Don't Stop Believeing"

"I gotta be me"


All the songs that Tony focused on when looking at the juke box.

That was exactly the ending I was anticipating.

What was the meaning of the title, "Made in America"?

Personally I like to think Tony eventually falls and somehow it carries onto his family.

I think one of the best things about the Sopranos is how much relaity is played into family alone. Think of all the things Tony and AJ have been saying lately. Tonight AJ said "You always with the drama!" just like Livia. I think one of the series biggest points is how family is passed down, whether they're good or bad things, and with AJ loving the fire of his car, I think he's going down the path of a sociopath.

I think Chase overall tried to use this series simply to convey ideas. He conveyed his own feelings (He was in clinical depression, sleeping 18 hours a day and playing drums, similar to AJ), and his views on the world. Think of Luxury Lounge where all the expensive stuff was free, and how it tempted Chris into movies.

I think Chase put a lot of himself into it, especially AJ's rant about us being distracted by fantasies. I don't think it was meant to be like some of his favorite films like The Public Enemy where there's a rise and fall. I think he simply used a series to show a slice of life and ideas, with no definite end.

Notice how, almost immedeatly before each member of the family walks in, someone walks in ahead of them. Bodyguards for each family member?

My friend just put in in good terms.
Tonight's show was like wating all month to get laid. But instead of getting your rocks off you get thrown on the bed and buttfucked by a biker gang.

Hmmm... I was thinking the same thing about you.

Read through these "Sopranos" threads and you'll always find differeing opinions on the shows.... thats to be expected. We, obviously, have different viewpoints on this show and thats alright...

Ending was Awesome no better way to wrap it up then a family dinner with the Sopranos b/c after all it is a family show.

And that's a possibility. Meadow was going to sit next to Tony. Also think of the way it ended with "Don't stop!"

With all the tension it made a upbeat song sound almost like a warning.

The scene with Uncle Junior and Tony made the episodes one of the best i have ver seen. It looked like tony was going to cry when he was there with Junior

And as I pointed out in another post,

"Who will you run to"

"Don't Stop Believeing"

"I gotta be me"


All the songs that Tony focused on when looking at the juke box.

All have meaning for what took place and was happening if you really think about it. Almost everything that has been going through Tony's mind throughout the entire seven years.

I think I saw his eyes watering.

That scene got to me Uncle junior is so helpless in that prison and tony saw him as an helpless old man who is rotting.

this better show up on limewire or youtube sometime this week.

AJ "sold out"..... all of a sudden his life had some direction (the movie thing) and he snapped out of his depression and didn't give a shit about the environment anymore.

How did it end with Tony and Junior. Is Junior completely out of it mentally?

thats how every season ended the family being together

Kind of like the opposite of the Godfather movies which all start with some sort of party.

The reviews for the final episode are going to be either love it or hate it. There won't be any in between.

It seems like he doesnt recognize anyone who was close to him

I thought the last time we saw Uncle Junior (with the cat sitting on his lap) would be a fitting farewell to his character... I now think tonight's "goodbye" is even better - we last see Junior as a blabbering idiot with no memory. Very sad but very fitting.

Well, one thing's for sure...I thought I caught a little rift in continuity/reality when Tony walked into the door of the diner and "saw himself" sitting at the bar, looking out, so I MUST REWATCH THIS EPISODE AT ELEVEN PM...

And Chase has guaranteed himself a raving-and-ready audience for the Next Step, if he decides to continue the storyline in any way.

And when I say the ending SUCKED, I mean, of course, it sucked FOR ME. I'll give it another watch, for Phil's demise and Paulie's Kitty alone...the ending deserves a little study, perhaps...and I agree about the level of suspense in that last ten minutes...selah.

Okay,
Bobbo

She was sitting at the counter!

Look, several of us had posted that we thought the finale could very well be anti-cimatic. Well, it was. I for one was not disappointed. Tony continues on. We know that he may be in for another rough time, this time with the law. Afterall, he's been on that edge for the entire series. Carmela, in love or not, stays with him. AJ has gone through his messed-up period and is now moving down the right track. Meadow is pursuing her law degree and will be wed soon. An American family; an American life.

Another thing, I thought the guy at the counter and Meadow's problem parking the car and the two black guys walking in were all going to give us a slam-bang ending. It didn't, but it wasa great suspense.

I agree with Just Lou..I remember curling up with The Godfather Returns and 1 hour later I was thinking this book really stinks..same with this episode..by 9:20 I knew we had been had..ENOUGH WITH AJ ALREADY....we all deserved a two hour episode with Furio, the Russian and Carmella realizing what happened to Ade....time to rethink my HBO subscription...

At first Tony doesn't believe Junior is really out of it, but he then realizes that Junior really has lost his mind.

did anyone see chase on the bus towards the beginning?

i really wish the whole "ducks flying into the pool" thing that almost everyone wanted to happen had occured.

or was at least filmed so we could watch it on dvd:)

Another brilliant Chase move :

All season long he had us speculating that Tony might flip because he kept showing us Tony talking to agent Harris. And what happens? Agent Harris actually flips, giving Tony inside information that he had!

What writing!

For me, the cat staring at Chris' picture was the highlight of the finale. That was so cool.

Mine was Juniors and Tony little talk

I agree DC, i definitly thought Tony was gonna flip to Harris, especially when you see Tony get into the car with Harris near the start of the episode.

I have to agree there. Agent Harris "flipping" was funny and brilliant. Especially his reaction to Phil's death.

I caught that also. Seems to be just a rift in continuity.

THe LIttle skit they had about the show combining the other HBO show was really good

I doubt that was un-intentional.

So what is Butch The new boss of the family? i can't see him as a boss

Off topic for a second - we (our board) just set a new record for online users at one time.... we just had over 30 "anonymous" users (non-registered members or those who didn't log in) checking out "The Sopranos" forums.

If I'm in charge of marketing, about a month before Christmas.

hey what skit? i'm confuzzled?

I forgot, what did Harris say about Phil's death?

You're back from your MENSA meeting already??

8 years of my fricking life for that! WTF!!!

No. Little Carmine. He played this one beautifully.

A cat was staring at Chris' picture? Man, that would be priceless to see.

And some are still confused as to what happened.

The more I think about how Chase ended this show, the more I like it. Chase did this superbly!

With the happiness of his favorite football team scoring a touchdown, he said: "damn, we're going to win this thing!"

Don Cardi i agree an amzing ending just keeps you guessing so which do you guys think is worse in the Aprile crew? Carlo stand up guy one day then FBI rat fuck the next or Vito being gay?

That's two records broken today. I think I broke a record in the salary cap game with a -43 for my ps.

All i know is that i will be revisiting the first season tonight. I sort of miss seeing all the boys on the sopranos together. Big Pussy, Jackie Aprile, Mikey Palmice.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Maybe some should put a little thought and imagination into the finale... My VERY FIRST reaction (for like a few seconds) was like WTF?? (First, WTF happened to my cable, then, WTF happened to the ending). After a few seconds, I was like, "wow.... how powerful, and open-ended - we can take what we want from it, life goes on..."

And if the DVD set comes out with Clue endings - all the better! Cuz we'll have like 6 months to mull over it, and then see what could've happened in different ways.

The more I think about it, the more BRILLIANT I think it was!

And you have to admit - people are talking about it, for sure!


I thought the same thing!

I bet HBO will be the big loser here. Now that it is over the rest of the HBO lineup is very weak.

A few episodes ago Phil Leotardo was carrying on about the spelling of his (last) name.... now you spell it "SPLAT!".

To those of you not in the New York area.... all the local tv stations are airing the late news and they're all carrying stories about the finale. Many of them are reporting from "The Bada Bing" where they aired the show to a tremendous audience.

It seems about 50/50 (as to who liked it and who didn't).

So when the final DVD comes out will Chase leave the ending as is, or will he do everyone justice and have the last couple of minutes of the show on it?

I have a question.
So if Paulie wasnt working for New York, why didnt Phil Leotardo put bounty on his head with all the other New Jersey crew?

because new york only wanted to kill off "management" and obviously Paulie isn't management. He's just become a capo now.

My initial reaction? WTF???? I am so disappointed and confused. The ending was in no way, shape or form anything like I had visualized. I really was left thinking what the hell happened. I wasn't sure if Chase expected us to "assume" that something happened by such an abrupt ending or what.

Some good scenes; Tony realized Junior totally lost it; AJ still has a couple screws loose; I love the cat staring at the picture of Chris and how it bugged Paulie. Janice joking about getting in shape to find another husband.

I found myself wondering/worrying that in the end scene, when Meadow was trying to find a parking space, that either she was gonna be saved because of the time it took to park, or be killed. The two guys in the restaurant, I thought, were gonna do the "hit", but that didn't happen. Then the freakin' screen went dark, and I'm thinking my tv went out, but no, it was over.

I did notice the songs Tony was looking at, and I don't recall that if in the very first episode of the show, if it involved the family at the table, thus ending with the family together. However, all and all, that still doesn't cut it. I was very disappointed in the finale.

Yet, I guess I'm very protective over our little crime family, because I didn't want anyone in the family to get killed, especially the kids, so I'm glad that didn't happen. However, it would have made for one great (if not very sad) ending. I think it could have been much better.

I'm rambling because everything's popping in my head at once.

TIS

But this brings up another question, if Paulie is only becoming a Capo now, then what sort of bump did he get in season 2?

No he has been a capo not of the biggest money making crew tho

The hit was ordered on the "executives" only.... Tony (boss), Silvio (consigliere) and Bobby Bacala (underboss).

but paulie was underboss. bobby was just a capo.

I couldn't believe that Bobby was ranked higher than Paulie.

Paulie just became the consigliere now... he had been a capo before.

Thanks, yeah now i remember. Chris took over his crew while he was in jail during the fourth season.

I think Paulie was ranked higher but he didnt have the brains he was an enforcer more than a thinker

So the rumors of Tony leaving and giving the family to Paulie are untrue.

well while tony is in trial Paulie will prob. be running the family

I think I'm with TIS on this one...I mean, TV is ENTERTAINMENT! In my opinion (and I absolutely hated the show personally), but the finale of SIX FEET UNDER was a lot better of an ending for a series...as a viewer, you want to get a little closure and say goodbye, not jump out of your chair and check the satellite receiver! I was all but positive I'd see the "721--searching for satellite signal" message there at the end!

No knocks on Chase, he gave us what he wanted us to see, and set up the posibility of some continuation, down the road, but...

I expected a little more in the area of catharsis, or conclusion, or...something.

Okay,
Bobbo

What, there's a probelm with me thinking the episode was good? I thought the ending was odd but not awful, it could have been better.

The restaraunt scene was a microcosm of Tony's life. At any point, anyone could kill him.

Uncle Junior was just on Channel 2 right now (NY), and coming back up -- the newscaster who-or was "reporting" that "most fans were disappointed" after checking out AOL forums - please - AOL users?

If Paulie was never a thinker, then why would Tony have him be consigliere. And another thing, consigliere to what crew. Who's left?

People still have/use dial up? Someone should inform them that it isn't 1998.

i still think Paulie may have been working for Phil Leotardo. it' s a possibility.

Chase was channeling el hombre Andy Kaufman those last few seconds methinks.

I kid, but still.

Paulie was a capo for awhile. None of their titles were "official" but since the birthday fight between Tony and Bobby we see Bobby sitting in on all the Family decisions (making him an underboss).

who esle would he had made Consigliere patsy? Little paulie Tony wasnt lefted with alot of options

My channel two is CBS. I'm guessing most fans are disappointed.

Had this been the end of an episode, and not a season, it wouldn't have been a let-down. Maybe we (myself for sure) were expecting too much. I don't know. I'd still see a movie. I still love the show. Just didn't like the season finale.


TIS

Btw, I forgot about Sil. We are to assume then he IS still alive?

Channel 2 (WCBS-NY) said Uncle Junior was coming back on the next show starting in a minute: Sports Sunday

okay. but still, if bobby was wanted dead, it would only make sense to kill Paulie, who had equal if not more influence.

Because of his experience.

When you see the show you'll notice that Tony looks to Paulie for his "input" before he agrees with Bruno that the war should be over. Paulie nods his approval.

I have and use dialup, because it's all that's available in this little rural area I live in...um, why would that bug you? And what's it got to do with the final episode of the show, Hoss? Why you breakin' my balls, man?

I guess this would be an instance where a lot of the spoilers were wrong. One had his wife saying she pulled the plug, another said you just see his monitor flat line.

Paulie really didn't have more influence..... remember that Tony came close to killing him... Tony held him in lower regard than Bobby.

Are we to assume that Patsy is now one of the higher ups in the family? He must atleast be a Capo since Tony was going to give him Espeland.

I wasn't busting dial-up users - it was more a knock on AOL Forums members

Its Chase's version of "who shot JR"?

"Who kills Tony"? (guy who walked in with him or other guy at counter or the black guys or none of the above)
If Tony is killed - "When does Tony die"?

I thought it was more misleading than superb.... too cutesy with the many different directions. Eh...

As someone's who only a casual observer I find this surprising. Paulie to me would have the higher power, as I always saw him more as a high rank member of Tony's crew, and Bobby just as Junior's babysitter. I could see Paulie being hurt that Bobby outranked him and go into a Fredo rant, "I was stepped over. It's not how I wanted it".

Probably is... ESPECIALLY considering that Tony and Patsy may soon be related by marriage (of their kids).

I just read that HUNTER who shows her face and her huge nose is David Chase's daughter. Is this correct?

In the prior episode one of Phil's crew mentioned that Bobby was only Junior's driver but a lot has changed this season... We see him sitting with Silvio and Tony on several occasions discussing Family business (including one in which we see Bobby and Paulie almost coming to blows - when Paulie questioned who sanctioned the hit on Phil).

Tony came within an inch of killing Paulie earlier this year.

Didn't Bobby just make his bones when he killed that kid in Canada. To me, it just seems like Rocco outranking Clemenza.

Here's a story that was just linked to my local newspaper. Phil was run over by Meadow's SUV?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainmen...-home-headlines

regardless, i find it suspecious that paulie was up for getting whacked.

no one else finds this concerning?

Yup....

to see the real ending you have to pay I bet.

Beth,

It wasn't Meadow's SUV, it was Phil's wife's SUV. She was driving it.

The writer put it well saying that this finale ended with a "to be continued feel" to it. I think that's what sums it up. I assumed as all of us did, that many minor storylines just wouldn't be resolved but thought there would be more of a "splash" type ending.

TIS

BTW, JL, weren't you the one who predicted that this could very well end non-climatic? You were right.

Uncle Junior excerpts from Sports Sunday:

"David Chase wanted that to keep suspense / it was a shock / my wife and I liked it / I think Chase left us with an "unresolved resolution" / the family had become more together again after each season / a Sopranos movie would be wonderful / Junior losing it? That's up in the air / I enjoyed playing the character very much / I doubt if Tony would've turned state's evidence / he wanted to keep his family together / I'm a Yankees fan since '52 / I wanna do movies or maybe a TV show, perhaps a talk show"

I KNEW the name was familiar (on the closing credits)... check out who played Patsy's wife.... its Donna Pescow. She played the gal chasing John Travolta in "Saturday Night Fever". He she is some 30 years later.... you can still see the similarity.

Now (on the left); Then (on the right):

Have a drink or smoke a doobie, FS

Wow, I kept staring at her and I knew I knew who she was, but couldn't place her. I was too in shock to pay attention to the credits. Man, she's put on a few pounds hu?

TIS

I remember her from the Disney show "Even Stevens".

Yeah...

Who did she play on that, the mother? I didn't even recognize/notice her...

Edit: Never mind, just saw SC's pics. Weird, didn't even notice... pretty funny difference in roles, tho!

Haven't we all.... Wait a scond... YOU haven't, TIS!!

(I updated my above post with some pics of her).

very ugly girl.

This last episode was wrong on so many levels. While some may equate it to genius on the part of Chase, I feel as if its revisiting when Geraldo Rivera opened up Al Capone's vault live on TV only to find nothing. Chase (whether this was well thought out or not) did a great injustice to not only the series and its fans of all these years, who really only watched out of loyalty, not because it was actually any good, but it really was a dis-service to the many actors and their careers who appeared in this series. Now forever when they go to get a role, or say "I was in the sopranos" people will only say "oh yea, that show that never gave a real ending" and it will be a trivial pursuit pop culture question like the Zima malt beverage, not a great series it could have been. Overthink/credit Chase's genius all you like, but everyone deserves better than this, especially the actors and production crew that put up with Chase all these years -- whether it keeps us thinking there is some alternate ending OR if its just "life goes on", or if its a cheap ploy to recontinue it in the movies and/or on some other form... it was weak and no level of genius can justify this episode. As far as I am concerned, the show ended with the previous episode, THAT was a better ending if you really wanted leave people guessing.

PS - Like many of you on this bb, I too was waiting for the Russian with the plate in his head and Furio to show up, even if symbolically.

Thats my 3 cannoli worth of comments lol.

She also was in a tv show, in the 80's I think. She was a mother of a teenage daughter named "Evie" I think. My daughters use to watch the show all the time.

Anyway, back to the finale. Look at the bright side....we still have so many unanswered questions that there has to be a movie.

TIS

How did Junior get so much worse from the 3rd episode to the last one?

Thanks for your 3" cannol'

You watched the show "out of loyalty"?????

Your post is your opinion, of course, and you're certainly entitled to it. I disagree with everything you said though.

I loved the episode and the ending, the tension is so high and you wonder if Tony gets whacked or if we're just paranoid.

Paulie was working for phil and no one seems to get that.

What the heck are you talking about?????

I can't SWEAR to it but I'm fairly sure that the scene in which Bruno was talking to Phil (on the phone as Bruno is walking down the Little Italy street) was filmed on Mott Street directly across the street from where Vito Corleone was gunned down.

Phil ordered hits on everyone in tony's crew except for Paulie. Paulie was up there in the family, high enough that he should have had a price on his head. it doesnt make any sense to me AT ALL that there was no attempt on Paulie's life.

Well, it's already been mentioned that Paulie isn't really "upper management" and also he's not exactly the thinking man's wiseguy.

Not taking out Paulie would benefit New York. He, i imagine, would probably be next in line if they had managed to kill Tony. And him not having the brains Tony has would mean he'd have no ambition and wouldn't try and get in New Yorks way.

Who was the respected neutral guy that set up the meeting

he WAS in management and is married to Tony' sister.
he was an obvious target.

Paulie? As in, Paulie Walnuts?

hahaha, man im an idiot.
well put

No, I didn't call you that.

Don't sweat it.

Even though it's the end, I'm still happy because I have alot to discover, since I started out very late in the Sopranos game.

Right at the time when the sets are starting to become a little less expensive too.

so did anyone else notice Tony went in the resturant in the clothes he had on when he saw Junior and saw himself sitting there?

I saw Tony sitting there but not Junior. Have to see it again.

maybe there is some sort of meaning to Tony seeing himself in the restaurant that we're missing

Did anyone find it interesting that when Tony and Meadow were in the restaurant, that Meadow tells Tony the reason she decided to be a lawyer was because of how they treat Italians and all the times she saw the police take Tony away??? She's gotta know and has so much as asked Tony about his business and him being in the mafia? She can't be that naive.


TIS

She's somewhat naive because she grew up "in the life" and is in denial about the extent of her father's involvement. Didn't you see the look Tony gave her when she said that?

i havent seen the earlier episodes, but have seen meadow ask "are you in the mafia?" in various trailers.
what is tony's response to the question?

There's only one street in Little Italy now, so no doubt... tho isn't that scene shot in what's now Chinatown (last time we went)?

Phil didn't have a hit put out on Carlo either, and he's a Capo too.

"We decapitate the management and do business with whoever's left."

Mott Street.... its all Chinese now but was considered Little Italy.

Max users online was: 81 @ 10:19 PM (tonight)

Still doesn't beat the record on the previous forums, which was well over 100 -- but that total isn't showing up there any more... nor the date...

Well yeah - Little Italy used to be like 40 blocks -- not as "little"

As for Paulie's new job - I don't think it's Consigliere - Sil is Consigliere... Paulie mentioned all the names of his (dead) predecessors, including Ralphie and Ritchie and Vito, and even Gigi! ( ) He's just running a real crew now, as opposed to whatever the hell he was doing before...

He was acting in the role of consigliere when he accompanied Tony to the sitdown with Bruno. Tony later asked him to be skipper of Ralphie's old crew.

Season 1, Episode 5 I think..."College"

"There is no mafia!"

Where, oh where to begin...

On a gut level, it was one of the most disappointing things I've ever seen on television (as far as show finales go). But, I'll get back to that in a moment.

It was technically well-crafted, manipulative, and seemed that Chase was showing off (since he also wrote and directed the episode). I really was expecting something more as far as plot and character resolutions. I guess that we should at least be glad that the Phil Leotardo situation ended with (as SC would say) a SPLAT. I did feel incredibly manipulated and then I, too, thought my cable signal had gone out. Like almost everyone else, I was waiting for something that never happened.

So, the whole wrap-up is really telling us, "Nothing's really changed; life goes on."

On reflection, I guess the biggest thing we were concerning ourselves with was: will Phil get whacked before Tony does? And now that Phil is dead, the immediate threat to Tony is over. So, I guess Chase wanted to have his fun at our expense as far as the rest of the episode. Story-wise, nothing else really mattered or called for any sort of resolution except the Phil problem. Fair enough. But, that's why I said that on a gut level, I was disappointed. I was waiting for something to come out of all those red herrings we were thrown and...it ended up as a great big fat Mafiosus Interruptus.

That was my gut reaction.

The ending "works" (if I can call it that) only when you reflect upon it. Tony will probably go to trial, Uncle Junior's too-rapid descent into dementia will continue (helped, no doubt, by the probability of his being over-medicated), Meadow will get married, Sil will remain comatose, etc.

But because I have to "reflect" on the ending to "appreciate" it on any level at all, it still doesn't change the incredible feeling of let-down and disappointment I had when viewing it for the first time. This is one audience member who doesn't care to be toyed with unless there is a real payoff before the final credits. (Maybe that's why I like Alfred Hitchcock's films...)

As an aside, I recognized Donna Pescow immediately. She went to high school with a bunch of friends of mine at Sheepshead Bay High School in Brooklyn (she was class of 1972). Interestingly enough, the other female lead from Saturday Night Fever, Karen Lynn Gorney, has also been on The Sopranos (but I was never able to spot her - anyone remember who she played?). I think that 1980s series she (Pescow) was in was called Out of This World - she played a mother whose daughter was fathered by an alien (outer space, not "undocumented").

Signor V.

In my opinion, I found this episode truely brilliant. Like it has been said, this isn't supposed to be wrapped up in a nice package, that's not how life really is. The show is simply a slice of Tony's life, not his definate rise and fall.

Another idea that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the way it was filmed and the way Tony looked at those men in the restaurant may be to show that Tony, the rest of his life will never be secure. He will always suspect that man going to the bathroom, or the two guys at the counter.
I really enjoyed the ending and you have to face it, no matter what Chase did, he couldn't please everyone...and I doubt he wanted to..

Watching it again, and Tony def sees himself at the end. Nobody talked about this, but what does it mean?

Is he really who he thinks he is?

That'd be about right.... she was a few years behind me in school (I graduated SBHS in '69).

Valid point. If every loose end were tied up in this last episode, it would have come off as unrealistic and unbelievable.

Still, I felt that the end sequence was leading up to something, and by not getting much of anything after all that build-up, I couldn't help but feel that I was left high and dry.

Signor V.

That was "Angie", on ABC in, like, '81 and '82. She was this waitress who married a doctor (played by the male lead from the AIRPLANE movies) and had an overweight sister with "man problems." It was a hit sitcom when I was 11 or 12, I think. The overweight sister went on to become some sort of bodybuilder/HOT girl, and I don't remember her being in much after that...good eye, guys! ((My old lady spotted her immediately--"That's John Travolta's little stalker girlfriend from SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER, isn't it?"))

Maybe along with all the other people he has to watch out for in the restaurant, he is one of them. His own worst enemy at times, etc.

Oh, and a question...

Is Carmine Jr the boss of NY now? Seemed that way to me, since he's always at these meetings and Butch and the other guy ain't boss types.

Since this was the last episode, Nobody is the boss.

NY may be hanging now.

So if Paulie was talking about those who previously held the position he finally agreed to take (Ritchie, Ralphie, Vito, Gigi) -- are you telling me those guys were Tony's Consigliere?? Nah. They led a specific (and unlucky-in-leadership) construction crew.

At the same time, I, also, cannot believe how that's a higher position that what Paulie already had....

the diner scene needs to be put on youtube.

Screw youtube, and screw David Chase.

I watched this episode again, closely, and there are no clues, and there is no payoff, and they just failed to come up with anything climactic, whatsoever.

In TV-talk circles, people mention "jumping the shark," in reference to how stupidly bad and unclever "Happy Days" got, as a TV show/sitcom. What David Chase (the writer AND director of this "momentous, final episode") has done is to FAIL TO JUMP THE SHARK. What a ripoff. And any of you guys who praise Chase for fucking up to this extent are little fanboys for doing so. Yes, indeed. What sorry, weak BS this is. Selah.

Okay,
Bobbo

In that case, you should be happy!

I'm sorry J, but I am NOT happy; what a letdown. What a ripoff. What a FAILURE TO ENTERTAIN. "You should be happy!!!!!!" Man...are you high, right now?!

Sir, no-sir, I am not happy. This was no way to let this fall. Last week, we were commenting on how weak-and-inept the Jersey crew were, and then--BINGO!!! That's because the show's creator is a fuckin' ASSHOLE!!!!! Well, in the words of John Lennon, "Congratulations." And you're on defending this tripe, eh? I'm losin' respect, and FAST, old buddy.

You talkin' to me? Are you talking to ME??

Sauseege his own, of course - we all have opinions...

And, what I fail to say, is I could be wrong in my prediction that the whole world (meaning the audience from last night's finale) will wake up in the morning JUST AS PISSED AS I AM at the lack of conclusion and/or closure of this episode. One little fanboy said, "Chase played this one superbly!" Give me a fuckin' break, please. And I'll shut the Hell up; agree to disagree, okay?

Okay,
Bobbo

I loved the ending!

It didn't need any closure... life often doesn't get it, why must a show??

Here's a rather good article on last night's finale. Its copied from Eonline.com:

The Sopranos Neither at Rest nor Peace
by Natalie Finn
Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:59:37 PM PDT

(SPOILER ALERT: This is a recap of The Sopranos' series finale. This is spoiler central.)

Was that supposed to mean lights out for Tony Soprano? Or did the crew just run out of film?

No, the picture and sound on your television set didn't cut out at the most inopportune moment possible. The Sopranos brain trust intended that the last thing you hear, after six spread-out seasons and 18 Emmys, be the words "don't stop"—as in, "Don’t Stop Believin," the classic Journey tune that played in the background as the final moments of the revered HBO drama played out Sunday night.

No matter that a shady-looking possible assassin who had been eyeing Tony all night (immediately making you think, Are we supposed to know who that is? Is he from season one?!) had just gone to the men's room, or that Meadow was breathlessly running through the door at Holsten's (best onion rings in the state, Tony says, a foodie 'til the end), after having had a randomly tough time parallel-parking outside, to meet up with the rest of her family.

And so what if Paulie "Walnuts" Gualtieri looked suspiciously troubled in all of his scenes—we're left wondering why. Was he ratting out his longtime crew to the Feds or, almost as bad, to New York? All we know is that he's the same crude, wily-eyed egomaniac that he was on day one.

Even Journey didn't make it all the way to the credits, which uncharacteristically rolled by silently after a completely abrupt fade-to-black as Tony looked up, ostensibly to see Meadow coming in. The point is, he'll spend the rest of his life—however long or abbreviated—glancing up to see who's walking through the door, and with what intention.

But that's how The Sopranos creator and executive producer David Chase envisioned the ending to one of the most smartly written, well-acted and layered TV series in history. So that's what we got.

The series mastermind has said that, when he was shopping his idea about a depressed mob boss with mother issues who's trying to maintain his grip on two types of "families," he was more concerned about maintaining creative control than about winning a pickup.

Thanks to HBO, however, he got both—bloodthirsty viewers be damned. In fact, Chase told the Washington Post recently that he pretty much had tonight's episode all figured out in his head about three years ago.

"There were not many changes from what I originally envisioned...It has all been planned out, we always knew exactly where it was going, but within that framework, we left a lot of room for each episode to have its own character and to invent stories that would fit in with the continuing story—if that makes any sense," Chase said.

Critics may have been divided over whether Tony getting whacked was the only way this series could conceivably end (meaning, most assumed that Tony was gonna be eating vinegar peppers with the fishes—or in prison). But, running over the long list of possibilities for this series' swan song, the more melodramatic options seem almost silly now, considering Chase's penchant for mining the seemingly mundane for humor, violence, irony and universal truths.



The show—so rewarding and simultaneously frustrating to watch at times—wasn't groundbreaking because of the graphic sex and violence, the liberal use of profanity and the head-in-a-bowling bag moments—although none of that ever hurt as The Sopranos became the most all-around successful show in premium cable history.

It was the combination of shock, awe, dark comedy, tragedy, suspense, normality and abnormality and sheer absurdity mixed with eerie familiarity that won Chase comparisons to Dickens and Shakespeare.

So, despite the fact that The Sopranos' 86th episode didn't feature an elaborate Godfather-style revenge sequence or prove that what goes around comes around, as far as our murderous yet beloved antihero is concerned, or otherwise mete out a lot of heavy-handed poetic justice—minus Phil's literally mind-blowing demise—the ending was, in fact, as producer Brad Grey told the Hollywood Reporter, done "elegantly and probably exactly the way it should" have been done.

Try telling that, however, to the thousands of disgruntled viewers who reportedly swarmed HBO's Website afterward, most of them complaining about the lack of closure, not to mention the dearth of rolling heads.

Of course, the public's demand for nonstop action of the whacking variety is understandable, after having been made to wait nearly two years for season six to begin, and then another 10 months for the final nine episodes to kick off. That's just mean. People were peeved enough that they had to wait a mere four months to see what was in the hatch on Lost.

But, once you stop and consider these, none of them seem quite right when you think about the direction the show has taken in the last couple seasons:

* [Insert name here] blows Tony away—karmic, yes, but luckily Chase knew that we didn't really want this to happen, even though it would have been a real gut check.
* One of the other Sopranos is killed accidentally—too Godfather: Part III. But it almost looked as if A.J. was toast when his SUV caught fire, didn't it? How could he miss the leaves!
* Tony has a massive coronary—see above.
* Tony goes to prison—this isn't Seinfeld.

Instead, we got the type of episode that closed out the first half of season six, way back when on June 4, 2006. Subtle, brilliantly acted and somewhat discomfiting, with a healthy dose of signature Sopranos payback.

With the deaths of the characters nearest and dearest to our hearts having occurred in the last few episodes, giving us more time to ponder the moral implications, Chase left a fan-friendly slaying for the finale: Phil Leotardo's exit harkened back to the days of Ralphie's beheading and Richie Aprile's Hefty bag burial.

After being whacked in the traditional sense by one of Tony's goons, the increasingly power-hungry newly minted boss of the Lupertazzi family ended up as road-kill when the SUV he had been riding in, with his grandchildren strapped into their car seats in the back, rolled over his head after his wife jumped out of the driver's seat to call for help.

The camera panned away, but the sound effects were enough. That, and the fact that a random bystander meekly said, "Oh, s--t," and another young man standing there projectile-vomited.

Vintage over-the-top Sopranos gross-out.

Meanwhile, the past few weeks gave us plenty of people to mourn. It's okay to admit if you shed a tear or two when one of the following met his maker.

Christopher Moltisanti's unheralded murder at Tony's hands was a fittingly pathetic end for this brutish yet uncomfortably endearing aspiring filmmaker. Bobby "Bacala" Baccalieri's death was plain sad, considering he was an alright guy who had only just made his bones at the behest of Tony, and only because his boss was trying to get back at him for whipping his butt in a fight. Silvio Dante, while always likeable (but maybe that's only because he looked like he had walked out a Dick Tracy comic strip), was still a murderer, and he is now lying in a coma, his gravity-defying pompadour ignominiously deflated. Paulie, meanwhile, was just too all-around nasty to die.

So, with Tony's crew whittled down to nothing already, Chase left The Sopranos' finale wide open for more what-ifs and even more philosophical musing.

In other words, the series ended as it began. There are problems still to be solved; Tony is still a dangerous, paranoid sociopath who might go to jail (we did find out that Carlo has turned rat and an indictment is imminent); Carmela is still stoically burdened by what she knows and yet still doesn't know enough, such as the truth about Adriana (Edie Falco will have to settle for a fourth Emmy for turning in one of the most complex small-screen characters, ever); A.J. is still a spoiled brat (the Army would have eaten him alive); and Meadow is still looking for the normal person's way out, which currently comes in the guise of constitutional law.

Hence, Tony Soprano's story continues. Unfortunately, we don't get to be a part of it, but, as A.J. reminds his dad in the series' dwindling moments, sometimes you just have to look back and focus on the good times.

SEE! PAULIE WAS WORKING FOR NEW YORK!

I have watched the show from day one and can't believe what we saw last night. I thought that I lost the picture on my TV as well until the credits rolled. I wonder what Chase was thinking. That was the WORST ending to a series that I have ever seen. Phil gets killed and then run over, his head must have looked like a watermelon after it is dropped. Sil is still in the coma. I thought he was going to make a recovery. It was nice to see poor Uncle Junior once again. Why did Chase ruin this magnificent character with a pathetic storyline. One of the senerios I read stated that it was suppossed to be Phil leotardo who shot Tony and not Uncle Junior. Michael Imperoli knew last year that his character was on the way out.

And who says that they were actually hitmen? They just as easily could have been bodyguards for Tony and his family. We;ll reallly never know.

PERSONAL INTERPRETATION! That's what makes Chase so smart and what made this ending so good.

They were Captains.

Gigi was a Captain. Ritchie was a Captain. Vito was a Captain. Ralphie was a Captain. Paulie was promoted to Captain a few seasons ago, when he and Tony meet in front of the Lou Costello statue.

So all Tony was doing in this episode was turning what was lastly Vito's crew over to Paulie.

Silvio was actually Tony's Consigliere and Bobby was thrown into the position as underboss. Both were put out of commission in this little war, so Tony turned to his captain Paulie and used him as his consigliere/underboss in this episode.

A dis-service? This show , if anything, gave a handful of wannabe actors a chance that they probably would have never gotten again. For the most part most of these actors would have went on with their bit part appearances in B movies. Some may have never even been given a chance to appear in a TV show, let alone a movie, if it weren't for this show.

This show gave many of them their 15 minutes of fame.

Even Mike and Mike in the morning are discussing The Sopranos finale. Golic thinks it will go down with Seinfeld as one of the worst series finales ever. Greenley is comparing the ending to the story "The lady and the tiger".

I heard Frank Rich of the NY Times this morning who said the ending was great!!! Then again, they showed some fans who said the opposite and it was a big disappointment.

I re-watched the ending again last night when it came on the second time (didn't get to see the whole thing again), and gotta say this much, it "was" suspensful as we wondered what would happen. DC is right, the men in the diner weren't necessarily hitmen, but we were led to believe so. We wondered who would get hit in Tony's family, and even if everyone would get hit while eating dinner. Then, fade to black and the let-down.

The very good thing IMHO, I think Chase & Co will be more inclined to make a movie or a few continuing tv episodes to satisfy all the disgruntled fans. Until then, lousy ending and all, this will remain one of my favorite all-time tv shows.

TIS

I really doubt that Chase is concerned about disgruntled fans.... he isn't interested in tying up the storyline for the sake of those who feel it necessary. Why doesn't everyone get that????

BTW - It wasn't a lousy ending... it was a GREAT ending!

*IF I COULD JUST GET A WORD IN, PLZZZZ*


I do NOT think this series is anti-climatic!!!

Chris, Aide, are dead. So is Sil...uhm, kind of. So is Pussy, so is Bobby. Yet Junior, Tony, and Paulie are still alive. THAT'S the show. Why did Sil not make the "cut" yet Paulie did? "Who's going to get whacked" has been one of the running themes of the series. Enjoy thinking about it - PLUS - Tony and Carmela STAY TOGETHER! THAT'S the show. How the hell did that end up happening!? Enjoy thinking about it...

Pussy and a regular job will do that for you.

Another review calling the finale brilliant!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/10/sopranos.finale.ap/index.html

This one called it a "perfectly imperfect finish:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/arts/television/11sopr.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

By ending it this way, Chase gives EVERYONE what they want.

If you want to imagine Tony and his family murdered at the table, you can.

If you want to imagine Tony getting indicted and Carlo's testimony sending him away, you can.

If you want to imagine Tony completely victorious in his battles with depression AND against his mob cohorts, you can.

If you want to imagine AJ as the next Spielberg, ok that's just stupid.

The only thing I had any problem at all with was Melfi's dismissal. The character AND Lorraine Bracco deserved better.

Bottom line, it's only a tv show. I think that's what we all get out of this.

I never watched the show and last night was NO exception, though all the recent hype did make me curious about the finale. Since they've been discussing it all morning on Curtis & Kuby (77-WABC) I figured I'd check in & see what all you BB-ers thought.

Ron Kuby referred to a past episode where Tony asked someone what they thought 'the end' was like. That person answered that you don't hear the shot that gets you. One of Kuby's theories is that the sudden cut to black (or blue) indicates that unheard 'shot' that finally gets Tony.

Kuby also continually compares this finale to the ending of GFIII where we do see Michael Corleone dropping dead after losing literally everything that meant anything to him...either directly or indirectly through his own actions. By the time the credits roll, we KNOW it's over. He (Kuby) would have preferred a more satisfactory closure to The Sopranos instead of everything being open to speculation. I think that's a fairly reasonable expectation for a fan to have.

Take care,
AppleOnYa

No way.... she dropped a patient (Tony) because of her ego... she's a [BadWord].

That's what I meant SC. I don't think her character was given any justice by dropping Tony.

Thats not Chase's style.... fans of him liked his shows partly because everything wasn't always tied up into a neat bundle.

That aside, its nice to see you back here. I hope all is well.

That IS interesting!

But can you plz delete this before Olivant reads it?

Don't worry about him. He's too busy crying over Ade. The realization is finally setting in.

It only took 3 years.

Ditto. Chase doesn't owe us anything. We pay our money and we take our chances.

Posted by SC:
Thats not Chase's style.... fans of him liked his shows partly because everything wasn't always tied up into a neat bundle.

*****
Possibly...however, even the sound of a gunshot just before that cut to black (or blue) might've been helpful. At least that would indicate that somebody was hit.

Apple

Hey, there are plenty of Board members plus other series' fans who believe that the "real" ending will be on the DVD or in a movie. Soooooooo...

OK OK.

I loved the ending, it was perfect for The Sopranos. David Chase wasn't going to tie up every story line, I don't know who could expect that after watching the show for 85 episodes and expect this one to be different.

I DID not know THAT. [/Johnny Carson voice]

I agree with Pizzaboy. I think that Melfi and Tony were too important to the show and to one another, that her actions were too out of character, and that I believe that it was a cheap thing to do. As PB said, both Melfi and Bracco deserved better.

Aw shucks Miss Babe, I like you too.

First Apple, welcome back. Hope all is well with you and your daughter.

Now in regards to the ending. I believe that Chase did NOT let us hear a shot to purposely leave the interpretation to the viewer. The last 5 minutes were extremely suspenseful. Some saw those guys walking in as hitmen. Others may have seen them as bodyguards. Others, just as normal diners in the restaurant who we magnified because of the suspense filled theme of that scene.

The one guy walks into the bathroom as Meadow finally gets the car parked, causing her a delay in sitting at the table. Fade to black. Silence. Does he come out of the bathroom thinking that Tony is sitting all alone on that side of the table? Does he come out shooting and hit Meadow instead of Tony as she slides next to him at the table?

Or were these guys bodyguards. If you re-watch you will see that each guy walks into the restaurant seconds before one of Tony's family memebers walks in.

Or did it end, as others have already pointed out, with the real family being together, just as many past seasons have ended?

I think that it was brilliant of Chase to cause all that suspense and then cut to black and silence. Personal interpretation for all that watched.

The final five minutes to me represent the danger that is always present in Tony's life. He has to look over each shoulder knowing that someone could cap him in the head.

The dinner scene also represents the story of the Soprano family continuing as usual. We just get to watch anymore!

I agree that the show ended just as it has existed - Tony never knows what lies ahead, if the next person to walk in the door will be the cops, his killer, whatever.

PB, then why don't you answer my PMs??

Possibly, but as was also discussed on Curtis & Kuby earlier this morning...the time for interpretation/speculation is BEFORE the finale, not after.

Those who are calling Chase's final cut 'brilliant' remind me of the people who go to art show and fawn over the stroke of a brush or shapeless sculpture because they think they're supposed to...otherwise let on that they aren't as hip & sophisticated as everybody else. (Anyone ever read 'The Emperor's New Clothes'...???)

Series finales, especially for shows of this stature, are in general quite difficult because expectations are so high that you never really satisfy everybody (except in the case of the final 'Newhart' which is a true classic...). But loyal fans deserve some kind of closure even if they don't necessarily like what they get.

For those who feel there's a movie or dvd coming...what would it possibly contain? The entire final episode PLUS what happened during the mysterious cut to black (or blue)? If that ended up being the case then it amounts to a HUGE ripoff and insult to the diehard fans who now have to WAIT god-knows-how-much-longer and then PAY to see the ending they expected last night.

But I personally don't think that's the case. I think it's over.

Like I said...no skin off my nose since I've never watched the show anyway. But based on what I've heard/read so far this morning, Chase copped out big time.

Apple

Thats funny.... those who are calling it a copout (and NEED closure) remind me of people with no imagination at all. They have to be spoonfed pablum or else their bowels get twisted out of shape.

Wasn't the guy at the diner watching Tony the same guy who played Dave Scantino's brother-in-law in season 2? Dave Scantino was the friend Tony busted out for his business.

Anyway, I just rewatched it, and I think the biggest thing everyone missed tonight is AJ quoting Tony at the diner after complaining about his work.

AJ: "Remember the good times."
Tony: Oh, you're gonna get smart now?
AJ: No, didn't you say that once? You gotta remember the good times.
Tony: I guess it's true.

AND



Buffalo bagels!!

Who is Melfi?? God?? She's not capable of being lesser than what she SHOULD be??? Its not possible that she's as frail and as human as the show's other characters?? Why?? Because she's a doctor??

Yeah, it was out of character for her to "turn" on Tony, but her ego got the better of her and she fucked up. EVERY other main character on the show had some issues and she just lasted longer (at being an OK gal) than the others. MAYBE some of Tony rubbed off on her.... but I wouldn't say she deserved better (and certainly wouldn't say that Lorraine Bracco did either).

Posted by SC: "...those who are calling it a copout (and NEED closure) remind me of people with no imagination at all..."




Thanks...I had really missed using those Smilies!!

Imagination is a wonderful thing...but I suppose those who needed NO CLOSURE wouldn't have even bothered to watch last night's finale (supposedly on the edge of their seats) after all these years/months of anticipation.

I suppose they wouldn't have even required a 'finale', as opposed to the series simply ending.

All you Soprano fans, imagine away...whatever you decide happened, you KNOW you're not wrong!!!

Apple

Chase did a wonderful job of "inventing" all these great, interesting charcters and developing them over the years. Of course I tuned in last night hoping to get one final glimpse at them but I don't feel "robbed" that the series ended without a definite act of closure.

IF Chase had gone that route THAT would have been a copout.

OF COURSE, the finale was brilliant! Chase pulled out a FEW more directorial tricks and kept us on pins and needles until the VERY end. The public wanted and EXPECTED something special from Chase and they got it.

Is Tony dead or alive? This WAS such a wild ride. God, what a show..

Amazing how most predictions were so wrong. And now people can argue about how it really ended.

Oh yes, great scene.

Tony is a smart guy - the type of guy you would want your daughter to marry - unfortunately he's in the mafia.

He's a product of his society. He did what he had to do, the same that we ALL do. I'm sure he can die happy knowing that his grandchildren will have more choices in their lives than he did.

So your opinions are based on hearsay?

It's great that many of us made predictions and speculated on this finale and then Chase does something completely different with it. It now opened up some good discussion here with some really good comparisons and ideas of how each of us viewed the ending differently. An ending that provokes some interesting thought and debate. Good stuff.

No, SC, not that Melfi is God. It's that the way her character has been developed over the years, I couldn't imagine her doing that to a patient, especially one that she had treated for as long as Tony. I don't think that it was in character, and that it was a cheap copout.

Obviously, Chase wants us to believe that she gave in to peer pressure, but I personally found the storyline completely unbelievable. First and foremost, I can't imagine a therapist blurting out a patient's secrets: A. In front of them and B. At a dinner party. The man would have lost his license!! Secondly, I think that it was out of character for Melfi to be so cruel to a long-time patient, especially one whose son was so recently institutionalized for depression and attempted suicide, who also had a history of depression.

Sorry, I didn't buy it. It seemed cheap and contrived, and thrown together at the last minute. Not only did the character and the actress deserve better, but so did the audience.

Basically, yes.

Because since about 6:00 a.m. I've already heard plenty of Soprano fans say they were unhappy with the final blackout (or blue-out).

In addition, of course...to the several others (Emperor's New Clothes) who seem overly fond of the word 'brilliant'.



Apple

Or...is it possible that one could genuinely like the episode?

Anyone who doesn't find The Sopranos to be brilliant should probably(imho) proceed in finding something to talk about that they DO find brilliant. Last night was a big night for some.

~CYA later Honey.

The more I think about it, the more depressing the ending was. It's as if Chase was mirroring Livia's words, "It's all a big nothing".

These characters have developed so much in the past 8 years of the show, just to be cut off like that. But there never really is closure for anything in life, so I guess that's what Chase was trying to convey. Still sad though.

Do you have a problem with women SC?

I find it funny how people say Chase doesn't care about disgruntled fans. Do you realize ratings are a big part of this guys job especially for future shows and how well he does. I listened to only two people on the media talk about this today and both were upset and also said if their is a movie they wouldn't touch it. One worked in NY and said they probaably wouldn't be a movie.

That's complete bull. If there's a movie everyone will run to watch it, so they should really stop with the bullcrap.

I hope there's not a movie or anything. This was a fitting ending and Chase doesn't need to back down because of disgruntled fans. Jimmy Gandolfini for sure probably doesn't want to touch the Sopranos for a while anyway.

I just think that letting everyone make their own interpretation was a very generous way for Chase to end it.

I just thought of something.

A few episodes back, when Bobby and Tony are sitting in the boat talking about killing and death. Doesn't Tony say something like "When you die everything goes black?"

Yup, big time foreshadowing.

Just like Livia's it's a big nothing.

Steven Van Zandt was on the local classic rock station, and he said to check out the credits.

Nicky Leotardo was sitting at the counter. There you go people.

Taken from another forum re: last night's episode -

"

Tony DID get whacked. The only question is by who. Remember first Tony's comments earlier this season about getting whacked (which were also replayed either last week or the week before). Tony said something to the effect of "you don't see it coming, you don't feel nothing, everything just fades to black". That was your ending.

As for the who, take note of the credits for the folks in the restaurant at the end. The guy at the counter that goes to the bathroom is Nikki Leotardo, phil's nephew. The black men are the same ones that shot Tony in season two, but only clipped his ear. Oddly, the boyscouts were in the store last week when Bobby got it, so they are going to have some issues, but my money says it wasn't the boy scouts.

My money says that based on the title, "Made in America", it was the trucker with the hat that read "USA". The same trucker who was the brother of the trucker that Christopher robbed and killed in season two...he was the guy that had to identify the body. It's all in the credits.
"

I'll have to watch it again fatherson, but if you're right, you're one sharp cookie.

Here's what director Kevin Smith had to say in his blog:

He forgot you, Geoff.

Doesn't he know that you came out of Jersey?

Nicky Leotardo sitting at the counter? Interesting. He was definitely suspicious (the only one, IMHO), but the credits simply say "Man in Diner" (Jimmy Spadola) and "Man in Members Only Jacket" (Paolo Colandrea) -- neither actors have IMDb entries, nor necessarily point to Phil's family (that I can tell, altho the resemblance is striking)... I don't even see a Nicky (or Nikki) Leotardo in IMDB...

If what FS posted is true, wouldn't it be just a little weird that ALL those characters ended up in a diner at the same time?

The shirt Tony wears in the diner in the final scene looks like the shirt he wore in The Sopranos pilot episode. As well as the shirt he wore when he was shot by Junior.

While raking the leaves, Tony hears the sounds of the family of ducks flying overhead. The ducks were the catalyst for Tony's anxiety attack in the first episode.

Well, Steven Van Zandt said to check out the credits...who knows though.

If that's all true then Chase really is brilliant. It gives us that much more to think about.

Off topic - Whatever happened to Frank Pellegrino's character? Maybe he took back Chase's table at Rao's.

I guess when they decided to base Harris on Lin DeVecchio, they decided that one FBI character was enough.

"Fuck the haters: that show's still the best thing to come out of Jersey since Bruce and Jon Bon."

I like Kevin Smith.

JG, I just read that Paolo Colandrea owns a pizza place in, I believe it was Philly. A talent agent or casting agent was in the place and saw his photo, and thought he looked the part. He was paid $3,000 for his appearance. I'll try to find the article and post a link.

Edited to Add: For olivant, I've read that the cat was supposed to be Ade reincarnated, given its obsession with Christopher's photo.

What kind of closure did you want to see? Did you want to see Tony get two in the back of the head? Did you want to see Carmela or Meadow get gunned down? AJ killed?

People keep talking about closure. You were given closure with Tony and Uncle Junior (which btw I thought was such a moving scene). There was closure in a sense. The family was together. In the end they were once again out there being like the average American family that was Made In America.

It was a show about family.

I watched it in disbelief, and watched it again at 4:00 a.m.
It is a brilliant ending. We saw a slice of Tony Soprano's life...we never saw what went before and maybe (unless there's a sequel or a movie) we will never know what happens to Tony.
For sure it will keep us talking about him.

Oh, I'm not even going to touch that one!

Jukebox Songs: Very Interesting

First page:

Second Page:

First Closeup:

Then:


Journey's "Any Way You Want It" strikes me as being just as important as "Don't Stop Believing" to describe the series finale. And while there are some song titles of doom and gloom, I can't not notice "I'm Alive" and the Live version of "Magic Man"...

Just like The Waltons.

They're both part of the same hypocrisy!

Someone just posted this in Kevin Smith's blog:
"And what about the lyric "Workin' hard to get my Phil???"

I'm with you on this one Geoff. That's exactly what the credits said.

"John-Boy" Walton.

What a great wiseguy name!

"Jim-Bob was a pimp."

Did he say that Nicky Leotardo WAS at the counter? Or did he just say to check the credits because Nicky Leotardo is listed in the credits?

Man in Diner : Jimmy Spadola
Man in Members Only Jacket : Paolo Colandrea

Another interesting reply on Smith's blog:

The only Leotardo I noticed in the credits was Patty...

He basically said to check the credits, but it appears now that it still doesn't list them.

This is the best scenario of the ending I have read and I agree.
While we were in suspense of what would happen in the last minute or so, we truly saw and felt how Tony lives each day.

Looking at every individual with suspect, never knowing where or when it may come from. The good times with the family are too few and to far between, but the struggle of trust, deception, and deceit are always present in Tony's world.

Woke up this morning got yourself a gun

Crime does not pay

Bravo Chase

Yeah, I agree. We became Tony for a few minutes. Also, I like the idea of the audience getting whacked.

This show is so amazing.

One interesting thing that I haven't heard mentioned: early yesterday, before the final episode aired, our local newsradio station (WINS) mentioned the upcoming finale and had a couple of seconds of Lorraine Bracco talking about it. She claimed she had shot a couple of scenes for the final episode but said she didn't know if Chase was going to use them or not.

Makes me wonder...

Signor V.

There definitley were alternate endings shot, I'd expect that out of Chase.

Don't get me wrong I liked the episode a lot, but that was the war I've been waiting for all this time? Geez, it just didn't seem like it was made to be the last season.

But I like that the guy from 'Band of Brothers' slipped in and killed Phil!

A few weeks ago I posted about this. Supposedly each member of the cast was given either a final script, which only included the scenes that they were in, or alternate scripts, a different one to each cast member. And the rumor at the time was that Chase shot something like 4 different endings. This was supposed to have been done so that no one, not even the cast, would know which ending was going to be the real ending. Done obviously, to stop any info from leaking out before the airing of the finale.

Whats all this about no ending? I think its pretty clear that Meadow for all her education is lousy at parallel parking.

Maybe they should have sent her to run over Phil's head!

So the black out can either mean that Tony was shot dead in front of his family or that he is Kevinfinity waking up..

Do I have THAT much right?

It can mean either of those two things or probably a hundred other things.

To me, that's the beauty of the ending. If I want to imagine Tony lying dead, face down in a bowl of onion rings, his family looking on, mouths agape, I can.

If you want to imagine him living to 80 years old with the ducks returning to his pool, then it's your right.

It was very clever.

There has been many episodes that have ended with a screen going
black ( in fact maybe every ) the big change last night was the
audio going off. If the screen went black and the song continued through credits
it would be typical

Fair enough, fair enough. A number of things could have happened. Maybe nothing happened. I guess it's up to us the viewer. But then again isn't it always up to us? Yes, it is.

No one wants to see Tony get gunned down in front of his family.

That was Frank John Hughes who played Bill Guarnere in BoB. I didn't want closure from the show but I have also been a fan of the shield which is still running very strong due to great writting. I wonder what Chase was thinking. Last week it looked like we were going to have a Scarface ending[Tony with the machine gun all alone]

You hit it right on the head, Ice.

I take this as Chase saying "it's up to you how you want it to end." And I'm grateful for that.

It is, after all, only television.

Its NOT television..... its HBO.

You're right. And as much as I DESPISED Phil, I hated that he got it in front of his wife and grandchildren.

But you know what? That's what these guys are about and that's what made the show so realistic.

Wiseass.

Tony called A.J -"Joe College"- a cpl of seasons back. I was slightly freaked out by this! Despite it ONLY being television.

There's no doubt about it that Tony Jr. would avenge his father ala Michael Corleone. Well...maybe. I dunno what the hell we're talking about anyhow.

I was watching Tucker, or one of those cable shows just now, and the interviewee said all the characters you see in the diner characters invited back who at one time or another threatened Tony's life. Did anyone notice that?

Everyone is talking about a movie, but remember, the show is only 14 episodes away from reaching 100 and being syndicated - which means a LOT more money for the network and the actors.

As for the ending, I liked it.

I think the cat could either symbolize Aide ressurected, or, since Paulie was freaked out by it, a rat stalker. That would mean either Chris or Paulie were rats.
I think AJ was happy when the car blew up because Tony told him to shape up and take care of it in the same conversation when Tony gave him the construction job. He met Blanca the next day. So, the car blowing up was AJ finally getting over Blanca.
I think Paulie is a rat. I know its in Sirico's contract that he not be a rat, but thats the thing - you dont know. Why else would he turn down a chance to make more dough? And, did anyone else see Paulie zip up his jacket after a meeting with Tony? Maybe a loose wire, no? Haha.
I loved seeing Phil get it, just not in front of his family. He was a total prick though.
I loved Agent Harris rooting for Tony!
I loved the scene with Tony and Junior!! Give them both Emmys!
I didn't like how they never touched on the Melfi situation. Looking back over the past couple of episodes, who was made to seem more evil? I'd saw definately Melfi- casting Tony off in a time of great need for selfish reasons.
Now to the vague ending- At first, I thought my damn power went out....I actually liked the ending. While I don't love it, it was fitting in my book- I have a good imagination, so I can fend for myself.
I think a cool way to end it would have been for an assassin to open fire, miss, and Tony pulls out a gun and kills him. Meadow runs in, and Tony, in a dellusion, shoots and kills Meadow.


We should start a thread and see all of our opinions on the ending!!!

Apparently the whole thing with the people in the diner was bunk...

See. Told ya!

The show is already syndicated on A&E, isn't it?

This isn't a typical show like a sitcom that ran 4 and a half seasons that ended up on the fringe of syndication. Besides, they're making an absolute fortune on the dvd sales.

I really doubt there are plans to do another 14 episodes just to get to 100.

Didn't I see this on FRIENDS?

Phoebe's mother reincarnated on as a cat?

Oh shit, I just gave myself up as a FRIENDS watcher.

About the whole possible Nicky Leotardo thing, if that guy at the counter was gonna shoot Tony, why didnt he just walk up and do it? There is only one advantage of going into the bathroom and thats that Tony would be caught off guard - but Tony wasnt paying that much attention to him anyway. On top of that, how would he be certain that Tony wouldnt leave?


Ah, its all in good fun now anyway.

Maybe the gun was taped behind the toilet. The box and, and, and the chain...

If what FS said was true, then I think it symbolizes the fact that for Tony Soprano, EVERYONE is a potential enemy and he always has to keep his eye on who gets up from a table, or walks into a restaurant, because that person might blow his brains out. Maybe it WAS Phil's nephew or the two guys who shot him.. or maybe it was done to illustrate that point; to him, everyone looks like a possible threat.

In fact, I think the entire ending symbolizes that: Tony mentioned that when you die everything goes black. The abrupt ending was meant to show that Tony never WILL know when his end is coming, because it can come from pretty much any avenue. He has to be paranoid for the rest of his life, always looking over his shoulder. He can try to be a family man, a loving husband to his wife and a loving father to his children, but everywhere he goes, he has to be wondering if he's going to get whacked and never see it coming.

I agree.

It just shows that even a mundane occurence like going out for ice cream can be so much more when you live in such violent circles. It can be death or it can be rocky road. You never know.

YES, FS ALREADY POSTED THIS POSSIBILITY.

OTHERS SUCH AS DA AND DC HAVE TOUCHED ON IT AS WELL...

I've just read and heard that scenario is probably bunk though.

At Satriale's Paulie declines Tony's offer to take over from Carlo, saying everyone who's had that gig has died prematurely. Tony ridicules his superstition - and finally sways him when he says he'll have to give the job to Patsy. "Prick. You always know what to say to me don't you?" says Paulie as he accepts the job.
- From the Sopranos' HBO site.


Never mind. Paulie took the job.

The only thing we know is what we see on screen. That's what Chase has given us. The genius of this particular script is that we the viewer get to "decide" what happens to "Tony" despite the fact that we "know" what happens to "Tony."

*Sigh*

I just watched the credits in slo-mo and there is no "Nicky Leotardo" named. Also, its possible that guy at the counter was just glancing over at the bathroom and not Tony.

Paulie switched sides and went to the all-powerful and all-mighty New York Cosa Nostra. The Jersey crew(under Paulie)still exists, but it is after all only a glorified crew...at least thats what Phil called it.

In making this switch, Paulie served as Tony's angel of death. To the Italian people/human race, that's a very religious, sacred, close relationship. And remember, Paulie is always seeing ghosts and sh*t. He is the shaman, perhaps a Judas of sorts. Paulie fulfilled what the fates willed them ALL...Tony would "understand" that..

And he did it all at 3 o'clock.

Where's Olivant when I need him?!

Anyone reall the exact episode (possibly in Season #2) in which Tony gets shot at after he leaves Melfi's office?? (by the black guy who shoots at him while Tony's in his car).

Who else is going to be watching the ending countless times besides me?

I dunno but I posted a thread regarding the Naples assassins...the ones that Tony hired and ordered to kill on behalf of John/NY.



Well...forget about some of that of course but the fact that the assassins meet w/ John and Anthony tells me that Tony was set up to take the "fall" the whole time. There was some kind of treachery set up by NY...they played this one beautifully. The assassins playing both sides of the NY/NJ fence is proof of that.

The Assassin's Pens
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=382661&page=2#Post382661

That's the episode where Tony leaves Melfi's office and then stops to by some juice and two guys shoot at him. That would be
Season 1 / Episode 12 titled "Isabella"

Thank you, DC!

You're welcomed SC!

Some of the news programs are now showing the actual ending clip. I must say I'd be pretty pissed. To have it just stop with no warning. I don't know. I've never been a mystery buff. If we're all supposed to come up with our own conclusion as to how it ended then olivant can say that it was Adriana who walked in the front door and she hired all the guys to kill Tony.

Was this one of the guys at the coffee shop (in the final episode)?

Olivant: Et tu, Bethe?

You're right. olivant COULD say that. In fact, olivant WOULD say that, but he'd be wrong.

**************SPOILER********************8

Here is the final scene on youtube for those, like me, who didn't see it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bphuuLi17SU

Well, I wanted Melfi to call Tony and apologize, and ask for his help in killing the man who raped her in season three. I wanted the Russian to return and kill Paulie, and I wanted the FBI to take Tony and have Ade, Silvio, and Carlo testify against him (Ade would obviously be still alive, and Silvio, a rat all along, would snap out of his coma just in time to testify).

Seriously though, I never expressed dissatisfaction with the ending. You need not jump to conclusions. I liked the ending, and I liked what Chase did. It reminded me of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid", in a weird way.

Johnny Salami??

"Sopranos" ends in crescendo of ... nothing

I just watched the credits backward and they read "Adriana lives."

By the way, who was the guy that shot Phil?

I think that was Walden.... a soldier in Carlo's crew. (He's seen with Paulie talking about the cat).

"How the f**k did you get a name like Walden?"



Paulie was classic last night.

Anyone up for a good laugh the Pine Barren boys episode is on again now on A&E.

Boy, I've been wanting to add my two cents all day but can't get to the BB at work. I did read the Sopranos site on HBO this morning and boy, there were so many pissed off viewers that the site crashed for a while.

Just to be clear however, I still love the Sopranos. It was my favorite show, and I'd be the first to see a movie or anything else Soprano related should that be the case.

However, I find myself disagreeing with many of my friends here that I usually agree with, and although I do hope to watch it again, am extremely disappointed in the ending. It seemed as though Chase couldn't think of an ending so he left it up to us. That just wasn't enough for me.

I've said more than once here, that I don't have to have violence and/or whacking in every episode and still feel the same way. But, for God's sake, he could have thrown us a bone. (i.e. a gun in the pocket of one of the suspicious restaurant guest; or like mentioned on another blog, the cat from nowhere with a wire; Meadow being followed). Hell, I don't know, I'm not a writer, but I sure as hell could have come up with something better than Chase did last night.

Btw, I've read the talk on blogs and here, about Tony/Bobby on the boat and how Tony says in the end "everything goes black." Yea right! How many times in the years have we speculated, "maybe this line meant something" or did you catch that line, or that look, or whatever, only to find 99.9 percent of the time it meant nothing. So we are to conclude that these little things all of a sudden meant something? I don't think so.

I don't think I'm too stupid, but to now have to analyize everything Tony and crew said or did to now mean something, without any kind of a clue, is stretching it. I don't share the opinion, nor can I see for a fact what many are saying and what and FS posted the blogger saying "Tony is dead." It certainly wasn't clear to me.

The ending diner scene was so tense and had me on the edge of my seat anticipating, and that was so cool.....until the fade to black. I just can't buy it.

Ok, I'll rant some more later. God, I'm still gonna miss that show though.


TIS

I think the "bone" was the death of Phil. It would have been criminal (no pun intended) to have left that unresolved. But as for that whole ending in the diner, I still feel we were "boned".

Signor V.

How ironic? or is it?

Episode 86.

Tony 86'd?
The Viewers are 86'd?

Meh.... are we to believe that Meadow walked in as Tony got whacked along with whole family and she viewed this?

I found this comment in the Sopranos site this morning and e-mailed it to my home address so I could post it. Lots of different theories out there. I don't remember the trucker they mentioned killed in season two.


"Guys, they just had the trucker on Howard Stern, and he point blank said that the ending was all a dream.

Note: Tony walks into the diner and sees himself already sitting there, that's when the dream starts.

The trucker is the brother of the trucker that was killed in season two by Christopher. He's sitting at one of the tables...this is in the credits."

One of the guys that was sitting at the bar was Nick Leotardo--this was Billy Leotardo's son, Phil's newphew. Again in the credit..listed as "guy at the bar".

The Boy Scouts that were in the show, were the same Boy Scouts that were at the train shop where Bobby was killed.

Interesting, eh? Tony was dreaming he was with his family, but all his enemies were still there at the same place they were.

That being said - the fading to black could be him (Tony) snapping out of his "dream"

What do you guys think?


TIS

Wasnt it Walden? The one Paulie was making fun of for his name.... "WALDEN".... he was doing arm curls when Tony asked him to give him and Paulie some privacy.

Very well could be. Can't be confirmed or denied, although that would explain the vision of Tony seeing himself at the table. We'll never know, thanks to that ending. I'm starting to grow cold towards it.

Interesting... but why so much focus on Meadow outside trying to park? If its Tony looking in at himself sitting in Diner surrounded by all enemies

I think the guy's full of crap.

First off, if the MAIN actors didn't know exactly what the ending would be, how the hell would some glorified extra know? And how in the hell would Tony be able to dream about people he never actually SAW since he wasn't there to witness the truck driver or the cub scouts...?

Please - that's ridiculous.

Tony appeared to "see himself" due to (IMHO, and until I am convinced otherwise,) a bad edit. Whether that edit was intentionally purposely ambiguous or not, I don't know...

Sort of like the ghostly image at Vito's funeral?

I would think Chase and his editing team would figure practically half the world would be watching this episode to not let something sloppy like that fall through the cracks.

Times like this I especially miss Plaw's input -- he'd set us all straight!

Next thing we know, Tony is at Southfork taking a shower!!


TIS

Yeah, he'd surely figure this all out. And roll his eyes in disbelief that the rest of us didn't get it.

And can someone explain to me why the boy scouts would be an enemy?

Are they gonna kill Tony for failing to protect his brother-in-law and traumatizing them?

What did I miss? I don't recall Tony seeing himself. When did that occur?

When he walks into the restaurant he looks over at his table and a second later he sees himself.

I can't believe I missed that.

If you blink you'll miss it pretty much.

I just replayed the scene several times, and I don't see him "seeing himself". When he's looking at the table, there is nobody sitting at the table. He does go from standing in the door, to sitting down at the table in a split second though.

You're right, JL. Tony walks in, looks around (and doesn't see himself) and then must sit down when the camera flashes back and shows him sitting in the booth (a few seconds later).

Here in order:

Tony walks into the diner and looks in (and doesn't see himself):



The camera focuses in on Tony's face:



The camera then shifts back towards the diner (AFTER Tony sat down):

^^^^^^^ to me, that's a bad edit -- unless it was intentional.

the diner scene and phils death still arent on youtube.

"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Home Box Office, Inc."

(understandable I guess, but still...)

Been hearing about rumors for a possible movie but I don't know.

I actually thought it was a good ending.

yah, saw three or four posts that had been removed.
theres all kinds ofsopranos clipsup there, why would they remove these ones?

I still think it's the greatest ending ever to the greatest show ever.

Coming into the finale I was SURE I would be ultimately disappointed with the series as a whole b/c there would have had too many DEAD ENDS in the narrative. An infinite amount of possible plot/character scenarios that would have been left dangling in space..

Well...Chase planned it that way. By not showing us an ending he leaves open the possibility for these "infinite amount of possible plot/character scenarios" that I speak of.

It's up to the viewer to decide what happens. And this concept is ORIGINAL, CREATIVE and just plain REVOLUTIONARY.

Make no mistake about it, though. Tony IS dead. But it's kind of like the whole "tree falling in the woods" adage. If no one's around to hear it does it really make a sound? Does it really happen? The audience doesn't actually see Tony get shot ...so it didn't happen. But it did..

"Tony is the first to arrive at Holsten's for a family dinner. He sits in a booth and plays a song on the jukebox, watching the door. Carmela enters and joins him, asking about his meeting with Mink. He tells her Carlo's gonna testify and she takes the news with a sigh. AJ arrives next, complaining about the more mundane tasks of his job but quotes old advice from his father: "Try to remember the times that were good." Meanwhile, Meadow struggles to parallel park outside. Customers come and go - a shady looking guy who's been sitting at the counter enters the restroom. Finally parking the car, Meadow runs inside to join her family, just in time for dinner."


-HBO



HBO makes it seem like life just goes on. Aside from refrencing the "shady looking character" once, they pretty much lead a person to believe that life just goes on.

David Chase speaks!

Posted by Alan Sepinwall June 11, 2007 10:50PM

What do you do when your TV world ends? You go to dinner, then keep quiet. Sunday night, "Sopranos" creator David Chase took his wife out for dinner in France, where he's fled to avoid "all the Monday morning quarterbacking" about the show's finale. After this exclusive interview, agreed to well before the season began, he intends to go into radio silence, letting the work -- especially the controversial final scene -- speak for itself.

"I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there," he says of the final scene.

"No one was trying to be audacious, honest to God," he adds. "We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds, or thinking, 'Wow, this'll (tick) them off.' People get the impression that you're trying to (mess) with them and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them."

In that scene, mob boss Tony Soprano waited at a Bloomfield ice cream parlor for his family to arrive, one by one. What was a seemingly benign family outing was shot and cut as the preamble to a tragedy, with Tony suspiciously eyeing one patron after another, the camera dwelling a little too long on Meadow's parallel parking and a man in a Members Only jacket's walk to the men's room. Just as the tension had been ratched up to unbearable levels, the series cut to black in mid-scene (and mid song) with no resolution.

"Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there," says Chase, 61, who based the series in general (and Tony's relationship with mother Livia specifically) on his North Caldwell childhood.

Some fans have already assumed that the ambiguous ending was Chase setting up the oft-rumored "Sopranos" movie, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

"I don't think about (a movie) much," he says. "I never say never. An idea could pop into my head where I would go, 'Wow, that would make a great movie,' but I doubt it.

"I'm not being coy," he adds. "If something appeared that really made a good 'Sopranos' movie and you could invest in it and everybody else wanted to do it, I would do it. But I think we've kind of said it and done it."

Another problem: over the last season, Chase killed so many key characters. He's toyed with the idea of "going back to a day in 2006 that you didn't see, but then (Tony's children) would be older than they were then and you would know that Tony doesn't get killed. It's got problems."

(Earlier in the interview, he notes that his favorite part of the show was often the characters telling stories about the good ol' days of Tony's parents. Just a guess, but if Chase ever does a movie spin-off, it'll be set in Newark in the '60s.)

Since Chase is declining to offer his interpretation of the final scene, let me present two more of my own, which came to me with a good night's sleep and a lot of helpful reader e-mails:

Theory No. 1 (and the one I prefer): Chase is using the final scene to place the viewer into Tony's mindset. This is how he sees the world: every open door, every person walking past him could be coming to kill him, or arrest him, or otherwise harm him or his family. This is his life, even though the paranoia's rarely justified. We end without knowing what Tony's looking at because he never knows what's coming next.

Theory No. 2: In the scene on the boat in "Soprano Home Movies," repeated again last week, Bobby Bacala suggests that when you get killed, you don't see it coming. Certainly, our man in the Members Only jacket could have gone to the men's room to prepare for killing Tony (shades of the first "Godfather"), and the picture and sound cut out because Tony's life just did. (Or because we, as viewers, got whacked from our life with the show.)

Meanwhile, remember that 21-month hiatus between Seasons Five and Six? That was Chase thinking up the ending. HBO chairman Chris Albrecht came to him after Season Five and suggested thinking up a conclusion to the series; Chase agreed, on the condition that he get "a long break" to decide on an ending.

Originally, that ending was supposed to occur last year, but midway through production, the number of episodes was increased, and Chase stretched out certain plot elements while saving the major climaxes for this final batch of 9.

"If this had been one season, the Vito storyline would not have been so important," he says.

Much of this final season has featured Tony bullying, killing or otherwise alienating the members of his inner circle. After all those years viewing him as "the sympathetic mob boss," were we supposed to, like his therapist Dr. Melfi, finally wake up and smell the sociopath?

"From my perspective, there's nothing different about Tony in this season than there ever was," insists Chase. "To me, that's Tony."

Chase has had an ambivalent relationship with his fans, particularly the bloodthirsty whacking crowd who seemed to tune in only for the chance to see someone's head get blown off (or run over by an SUV). So was he reluctant to fill last week's penultimate episode, "The Blue Comet," with so many vivid death scenes?

"I'm the Number One fan of gangster movies," he says. "Martin Scorsese has no greater devotee than me. Like everyone else, I get off partly on the betrayals, the retributions, the swift justice. But what you come to realize when you do a series is you could be killing straw men all day long. Those murders only have any meaning when you've invested story in them. Otherwise, you might as well watch 'Cleaver.'"

One detail about the final scene that he'll discuss, however tentatively: the selection of Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" as the song on the jukebox.

"It didn't take much time at all to pick it, but there was a lot of conversation after the fact. I did something I'd never done before: in the location van, with the crew, I was saying, 'What do you think?' When I said, 'Don't Stop Believin',' people went, 'What? Oh my god!' I said, 'I know, I know, just give a listen,' and little by little, people started coming around."

Whether viewers will have a similar time-delayed reaction to the finale as a whole, Chase doesn't know. ("I hear some people were very angry, and others were not, which is what I expected.") He's relaxing in France, then he'll try to make movies.

"It's been the greatest career experience of my life," he says. "There's nothing more in TV that I could say or would want to say."

Here's Chase on some other points about the finale and the season:

-After all the speculation that Agent Harris might turn Tony, instead we saw that Harris had turned, passing along info on Phil's whereabouts and cheering, "We're going to win this thing!" when learning of Phil's demise.

"This is based on an actual case of an FBI agent who got a little bit too partisan and excited during the Colombo wars of the '70s," says Chase of the story of Lindley DeVecchio, who supplied Harris' line.

-Speaking of Harris, Chase had no problem with never revealing what -- if anything -- terror suspects Muhammed and Ahmed were up to.

"This, to me, feels very real," he says. "The majority of these suspects, it's very hard for anybody to know what these people are doing. I don't even think Harris might know where they are. That was sort of the point of it: who knows if they are terrorists or if they're innocent pistachio salesmen? That's the fear that we are living with now."

Also, the apocryphal story -- repeated by me, unfortunately -- that Fox, when "Sopranos" was in development there, wanted Chase to have Tony help the FBI catch terrorists, wasn't true.

"What I said was, if I had done it at Fox, Tony would have been a gangster by day and helping the FBI by night, but we weren't there long enough for anyone to make that suggestion."

-I spent the last couple of weeks wrapping my brain around a theory supplied by reader Sam Lorber (and his daughter Emily) that the nine episodes of this season were each supposed to represent one of the nine circles of Hell from Dante's "The Divine Comedy." Told of the theory, Chase laughed and said, "No."

-Since Butchie was introduced as a guy who was pushing Phil to take out Tony, why did he turn on Phil and negotiate peace with Tony?

"I think Butch was an intelligent guy, he began to see that there was no need for it, that Phil's feelings were all caught up in what was esentially a convoluted personal grudge."

-Not from Chase, but I feel the need to debunk the e-mail that's making the rounds about all the Holsten's patrons being characters from earlier in the series. The actor playing Member's Only guy had never been on the show before, Tony killed at least, one if not both of his carjackers, and there are about 17 other things wrong with this popular but incorrect theory.

Alan Sepinwall may be reached at asepinwall@starledger.com

NJ.com -- David Chase speaks!

Actrually TIS, David Chase has always said that from the moment he finished writing the first season, he always knew how he was going to end this series when the time came.

"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Home Box Office, Inc."
_________________________________________
Holy crap. Chase has spies everywhere. He's done that before. A few days after the Blue Comet episode I looked for Bobby's murder scene and it was up there, but I got that same message when I tried to pull it up. Oh well. At least I got to see this scene before big brother shot it down.

I'm in the camp that liked it.

That being said, I cannot believe how many people hated it. The online and AP polls are showing like 2 to 1 AGAINST the ending, with alot of ignorant people cursing David Chase like he was Osama.

It just goes to show how many people tune in just because they want to see violence.

Someone above demurred about life goes on. But it does. We move through life from event to event. What was supposed to happen to Tony and his family? Well, keep in mind that this was a fictional story based on life. Life is full of variables. Not all those variables are dramatic and conclusive.

On one hand, I get what Chase was trying to do: not spell everything out, leave it open to the audience's interpretation, doing it his way, not being confined by boundaries.

On the other hand, a LITTLE closure would've been nice.

Hey, I'm not a watcher who needs everything tied up in a nice little bow. Where did Furio go? I don't mind not knowing. What happened to the Russian in the Pine Barrens? It's fine to leave that a mystery. In real life, you seldom get total closure and have resolutions to everything. In real life, you have loose ends. In that regard, I totally get what Chase was doing.

HOWEVER, this show is ultimately about one guy: Tony Soprano. He is the focal point. Without him, there is no show. He is the main character, the one all the other characters revolve around. At the very least, just a little closure about the MAIN CHARACTER would have been nice.

But since it is open to interpretation, here is mine: I think Tony got killed right at the end, probably by the guy who was eyeing him in a funny way from across the restaurant and stepped into the bathroom. Recall the first episode on this season, where Tony and Bobby were talking about getting shot to death: "You probably don't even hear or see a thing when it happens."
I think the blank screen before the silent roll of the credits was Tony's death.

Thanks for that!!!!

And yet Chase is being crucified for that.

Chris -

Your commentary on the show was sorely missed this past year. Hope all is well with you and the family.

They showed it again last week as a reminder and a clue to us for the end.

I think we saw the death of Tony Soprano the only way that it could have been shown.

I think that we saw the LIFE of Tony Soprano the only way that it could have been shown.

Ah what a life it was...

Hi, SC. The wife and daughter are doing incredibly well! Thank you for asking.
In addition to a busy family life, work (two jobs with a total of 70 hours a week) has been horrendous, leaving me precious little time for any leisure activity, such as having fun on this board! I am in search of a better job as we type, so hopefully I'll have a single 40 hour a week job and a semblance of normalcy.

As for "The Sopranos", I do applaud Chase's guts for ending the show like he did. I also understand his motivation to do things his way. I understand his not having the need to wrap up every loose end and tie everything up in a neat little package for everyone's consumption.

My examples of Furio and the Russian are what I mean. So many people keep on complaining about the loose ends throughout the tenure of the show, but that's life! Life is full of loose ends.

Leaving the fates of the other characters in a shroud of mystery is absolutely cool. I just think Chase went a LITTLE too far in leaving the fate of THE MAIN CHARACTER completely unknown.

I think a click and a bang out of nowhere and a total blank screen for a few seconds while seeing things from Tony's perspective would have perfectly conveyed the fact that Tony is dead, while still leaving the WHO? WHAT? WHY? HOW? open to interpretation. I think that would have been a better way to end the series. It would have given us SOME closure while still leaving things unresolved, mysterious, and controversial.

Based on Chase's many references to GF during the series, one might make an argument that Tony got whacked in Holsten's.

(Who can ever forget the undertaker's words to Tony after Livia's death?)

Two things that stand out in my mind are the man going to the bathroom (we never see him come out, do we?) and Tony's line about the onion rings being "the best in the state" - both bits certainly echo the Michael/Sollozzo sitdown.

But the ambiguous ending will always annoy me, particularly because I felt the rest of the episode was very well-written and things were moving along at a nice clip. To hear Chase say (regarding the end scene) that "it's all there" seems almost like a slap in the face. In other words, if we can't immediately read his mind and see things as he saw them, then - what? We're idiots? Chase certainly knew people would be arguing over the end scene, so he goes off to France and conveniently refuses to discuss what the ending means (and implying that we should have already figured it out).

Gimme a break...

Signor V.

I agree with DC on this point.

Those last paranoid, frenzied moments in the ice cream shop showed us life from Tony's point of view. Always looking always his shoulder, never at peace, not knowing exactly when it's gonna all come crumbling down but being unfortunate enough to know that it inevitably will.

It's quite possible that those were the last moments of Tony's life, it's also just as possible that they weren't. What's certain and what Chase conveyed is that every moment of Tony's life is like that. There's no peace when you live that life. Crime, while undeniably quite profitable from a financial point of view, just doesn't pay.

Bravo David.

This will put the Phil's Nephew rumor to rest as the guy at the counter was a pizza shop owner.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-06092007-1360360.html

He's a pizza shop owner in real life. His persona in the show is still in question. Although it appears, and I agree that he's a "nobody". This also seems to back-up the reports that no violence was ever filmed at Holstens. So those looking for a bloody ending on the DVD when it comes out, might be out of luck.

Can you imagine the business he will be getting now at his pizza shop? Har far is it from New Brunswick

Yeah. ...And I wonder how many onion rings Holsten's is selling?

Someone made a point in regards to the cat in an earlier post ( can't recall who it was).

So I went back and re-watched the episode. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the cat was symbollically supposed to be Christopher re-incarnated. He stares at Christopher's picture, and one can easily make an argument that it could be Adrianna because of this. However he could be staring at himself, remembering when. But what really makes me lean towards it being Chris is the fact that the Cat totally annoyed Paulie. Just like Chris used to. The Cat got under Paulie's skin. Just like Chris used to. Tony loved the Cat. Just as he loved Chris. And when Paulie is sitting all alone outside of Satriale's, there's the Cat sitting right there also. Just like Chris and Paulie used to do.

I'm convinced that the Cat was symbolic of Christopher.

Everyone of the series' episodes ended with the screen going to black. All the episodes ended with viewers wondering what would happen to those in the episode and what would happen next episode. So, why all the lamentations about the finale? It's fiction. You can make up your own ending. Tony dies. Good. That's a good ending. Try that one. It'll live in your memory forever. If you get tired of it, change it. There's a million possibilities.

Wow! In all this mass confusion of posts going up every 30 seconds for the last couple of days, I just realized that you are posting again! Great to see you back. I've always remembered you for the excellent Sopranos posts that you've made in this thread.

Welcome home.

36 miles

Right idea, wrong person. The cat was symbolic of Big Pussy.

You really think so? If it was Big Pussy then why was Paulie so miffed with it? Paulie never really had any run ins with Big Pussy outside of the time that he wanted him to strip down to see if he was wearing a wire.

Christopher, on the other hand, always seemed to annoy Paulie. They were always at odds.

If it was supposed to be symbolic of Big Pussy, than why did they make the cat stare at Christopher's picture?

Duhhhhh..... pussy = cat.

Keyword: pussy

Then why was he staring at Christopher's picture?

*cough*It'sAJoke*cough*

Vince Curatola (Johnny Sack) was on TV a few minutes ago, and he said that he thinks Tony died. "Most likely" was his words. Then again, it is open to interpretation, as we all know.



The guy wearing a Members' Only jacket.....Members' Only was the name of the first episode of season 6, part 1, when Tony got shot.....

I was talking to your consigliere, not you.

IT WAS A JOKE!!

(Great, now he's doing a Greek Sicilan Mafia Don imitation).

A Joke.

Are you trying to amuse me? Are you trying to make me laugh? Are you a clown?

Oh, sorry, wrong thread.

one thing that hit me while watching the episode but i kinda looked over was sil in the hospital bed.

this whole seris every episode with sil we have seen his hair in that frozen slicked back, whether he be at his breakfast table or at the bing

in the last scene we saw with tony & sil, silvio hair was just like a regular joes (uncombed) which is the first thing i looked at when i saw sil in the bed. outside of the junior scene i liked this scence the best. it was two best friends meeting and no words were utterted and tony holds his hand, just as sil did when tony was in the hospital. classic

and earlier b4 the season started van zandt in one of the hbos specials mentionted the only constant in the show has been silvios hair

At least Steve Van Zandt liked the ending. I didn't know that was his real life wife who played his wife on the show.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I6ShHJcQ9Kk

Whoever it might have been, the cat was the coolest part of the entire episode and maybe of the entire series.

Time to look back on some great moments. I picked the best of Paulie Walnuts, as he always cracks me up. I can't help but chuckle listening to him say, "My mother's a whore".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CG8yzOeKUd4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yYexfzWjRDI

Honestly, I'm one of the people who felt it was a complete and utter copout ending. I believe Chase did it to leave himself a backdoor in the future if he ever needs money.


I don't find anything brilliant about shutting it off before we find out what happened to Tony. If I wanted to have to imagine up an ending, I'd have turned off the TV myself before the final scene. I watch the show to see someone else's imagination at work, not my own.

I discount the theory that Tony got killed because there's no indication that he got killed. There was no gunshot which despite what Tony and Bobby may have said, there would've been. And the people in the diner had no reason to want to kill Tony. Phil was dead, he constructed a peace with NY, there was no one left to kill him.

I don't believe we saw Tony get clipped through his own eyes. The last image we saw was of Tony himself, so how could we be seeing it through Tony's eyes if he's the last thing we saw?

Again, I felt it was a ripoff ending. It's a shame such a good show had to leave such a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of fans.

A finale that has obviously provoked a whole lot of thought and discussion as evident by the numerous discussions on these boards, other boards, various television outlets, newspapers and numerous radio stations.

I think that Chase accomplished exactly what he set out to do.

Pretty brilliant of him if you ask me.

I think people would still be talking about it no matter what the outcome was. If he had Adriana live and come back blasting through the door people would be talking about it still today. Would that have been brilliant?

Oh I don't disagree that it was brilliant in that sense, I disagree that it was a brilliant ending in the sense of ending a series. People are raising their arms arms up to Holy Chase and acting as if this is some beautiful ending which I just don't buy.

From a salesman and publicity sense this was pure genuis.

Well I for one am one of those who thought that it was a fantastically written finale.

I thought the finale was great.

I thought the ending was awful. Did you like the ending itself?

Sell your HBO stock. A girl I know works at Time- Warner and she says that people have been dropping HBO for the last few days at a record number. And when they ask if they would like one of the other packages to replace HBO the answer is almost alway NO!

Then they offer to let you keep HBO for the next year for a special price and people still say NO!

Actually I really loved the ending.

Initially, when it went black, I was like " What the f**k."

But then when I sat back and thought about the way that it ended, I felt that it was a really good ending.

Throughout the entire run of this series, I've always re-watched the episodes. And I've always found that when watching them a second time, I've picked up various things that I did not pick up on the first veiwing. And most of the times the things that I picked up on the second veiwing shed new meaning to the episode and made me realize that the episode was actually better than I had initially thought.

I've probably watched the ending to this finale a half a dozen times already. And each time I watch it, I like it even more than the last.

It's a pretty deep show writing wise with a lot of hidden inuendos and undertones. And many times that second veiwing makes you see those hidden inuendos for what they really mean to the show.

Same way with the GF. Everytime I watch it I pick up something new about it. I don't have HBO so I'm going to my inlaws for a couple days so hopefully it will come on while I'm there.

The best part of the show is when Paulie unbuttons his pants at the table................... the cat was Addriana.............

No Smitty, read my previous post about the cat. I don't think that it was Adrianna.

Here :

Someone made a point in regards to the cat in an earlier post ( can't recall who it was).

So I went back and re-watched the episode. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the cat was symbollically supposed to be Christopher re-incarnated. He stares at Christopher's picture, and one can easily make an argument that it could be Adrianna because of this. However he could be staring at himself, remembering when. But what really makes me lean towards it being Chris is the fact that the Cat totally annoyed Paulie. Just like Chris used to. The Cat got under Paulie's skin. Just like Chris used to. Tony loved the Cat. Just as he loved Chris. And when Paulie is sitting all alone outside of Satriale's, there's the Cat sitting right there also. Just like Chris and Paulie used to do.

I'm convinced that the Cat was symbolic of Christopher.

Maybe it was Pussy.

But back to the ending, what made it all that great for you? I was personally annoyed by how the ending left Tony's fate up in the air, is that the part you liked? IMO I go to watch a show to see someone else's imagination at work, I don't want to have to use my own. If I wanted that, I wouldnt've paid the price of admission.

It would have exceeded brilliant!

I like good writing that provokes deep thought and provokes the use of one's imagination.

I love movies that have deep meaning, or twisted plots.

In this article in the New York post it outlines the rest of the final scene that was supposedly shot. In another article somewhere it indicated James Gandolfini did not like the ending.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06122007/new...urray_weiss.htm

Here was Uncle Junior's interview on Sports Sunday.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KjhZb9UOj4c

Well that article answers the question about when the dvd comes out and about alternate endings.

I've heard that the shooting of alternate endings never took place. That there were alternate ending scripts given out to different actors on the show, but that nothing was ever shot except for what we were shown.

We'll see come DVD release time.

I can't seem to find, in that article, where it talks about alternate endings.

Well I can see how it provokes use of your imagination, but how does it really provoke thought? No matter what your theory is on what happened to Tony, it's wrong because at the end nothing happened to Tony. That's really the problem with that type of ending, it's one giant cliffhanger.

Matt Servitto, who played FBI Special Agent Harris, said Chase briefly kept the camera rolling after what amounted to Tony's final moment on screen - and that the extra footage appeared to clearly spell the end for the supreme Soprano.

"[Tony's daughter] Meadow got into the diner, sat down . . . The menacing 'Members Only' jacket-wearing man at the counter was a little bit more in play, and I think she's sitting there with the family kind of all together . . . and all of a sudden, the menacing man gets up, starts walking toward their booth. End of show," Servitto said.

"The scene cut as the [menacing] guy was advancing toward [Tony], as if he was about to shoot Tony. It was, I think, less ambiguous that Tony was going to get shot."

How would Plaw felt about the ending? Alot of you guys knew him beter than I did. Did he even watch the show?

Thank you Beth.

His Avatar?

Duh Don't know what wrong with my brain these days

I think you're hitting the moonshine a little too much lately.

Nah it's all the driving I've been doing these past couple of years

Sucking in all those gasoline fumes!

Thats a normal thing whenever "The Sopranos" finished its season in the past. The viewers would always return when the new season started.

(In other words - the vast majority of subscribers are NOT cancelling as a form of protest over the ending).

But, there is not going to be another season to come back to!

Understood. HBO and the cable companies expected this. Many of their subscribers took the HBO package solely because of "The Sopranos".

I got to re-watch again last night after getting over the initial shock of the finale and the beginning of a withdrawal of a Soprano free season. I can't disagree that the story itself in the finale was good. It kept me interested (well not as much as the first viewing of course). The guys in the diner weren't quite as suspicious the second time around. Leotardo's whacking was as good the second time around; Paulie and the cat added the usual slight humor to the episode. They showed enough of each of the "not so main" characters that we got to see where they were at this point.

I still got a rush during the last five minutes with the big build-up as the family one by one meets in the diner. Journey playing in the background added to the suspense as well. Meadow opens the door, the bell rings and Tony looks up...bada bing!!! That's it. To read more into and especially to assume that Meadow walked in to a massacre just doesn't cut it. I didn't see one thing to indicate that.

I think Chase has been (and is) so admired for his writing of this show, that it's hard maybe to accept that he could possibly fuck-up!! Years from now, I fear this will be as bad as the Dallas finale with Bobby in the shower. Time will only tell I guess.

Oh btw, I forgot which site I was reading but Journey was thrilled to have their music in the Sopranos. The article was not with Steve Perry, but another band member (can't think of who). Anyway, he said that the group has been "mum" knowing their song would be played at the end and seemed very pleased with how it turned out.

TIS

I just dont see how Meadow would be walking into a bloodbath. Family members dont get killed. Phil's wife was spared when she easily could have bought it.

That would be me! When I first subscribed, I told my cable company that I only wanted it for the Sopranos and would drop it after the series ends. However, I may keep it to watch the only other show I enjoy on HBO. (the movies suck on HBO. They replay the same old stuff over and over )

TIS

I can't believe you used that word. I don't know if I seen that word used by you before.

You should hear TIS' vocabulary when someone cuts in front of her on a breakfast buffet line!! Little children go crying to their mothers, sailors blush and little old ladies faint!!!

Wow!! Is it that surprising? I don't usually post that kind of language although I am guilty of using it at times. It just seemed to fit with the context of my post I guess.



TIS

I read the article too. Here it is.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070612/ap_en_mu/tv_sopranos_that_song

Tis, I want to party with you. We can bunk together anytime.

Ok, but just don't be messin' with my food in the buffet line or I'll woop ya!!


Yea that's the Journey article I saw Beth!!! I have been doing so much searching/browsing since the Soprano's finale that I lose track of what site's I've been on.

TIS

I'll be nice and even leave you the zucchini.

YOU?? Leave the zucchini for someone else?? Shocking!

I've been reading as much as everyone else, and I think that the camps are pretty evenly divided as to hated it/loved it. I think that the ending could best be described in Hyman Roth's words: This is the business we have chosen.

Tony's entire life is that scene in the diner. Who is going to walk through the door next?? You just never know.

i've been listening to the song "don't stop believing" for the last half hour and it keeps hitting me with the idea that tony probably did die when it all went dark.

But Chase did say that "its all there."

so i listened to the lyrics more carefully and the second half of the song, specifially the last two lines might sum up the ending


Strangers, waiting, up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching in the night
Streetlight people, living just to find emotion
Hiding somewhere in the night

Working hard to get my fill
Everybody wants a thrill
Paying anything to roll the dice
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

Btw, I know from previous posts that some members here have been checking spoilers and such on televisionwithoutpity.com. I've been trying to get on the site since The Sopranos ended, but have been unable to access the site. Did it crash after the finale???

Look, the last time you see Tony in the series for all eternity, he's alive and there is no immediate threat to him. The series ends and he is alive. That's it. There is nothing to indicate otherwise.