Season 6B, Episode 7 CONTAINS SPOILERS

Episode Title- "The Second Coming"

Plot Description- Phil refuses Tony's offer of a compromise; AJ worries about the world and his future; an affront to Meadow angers Tony.- TV Guide

Possible start of NJ/NY Mafia war?
Tony angry with a remark made about Meadow?
AJ still depresses (possible suicide)?

Maybe it's all going in the direction that so many of us have speculated it is: Tony's loses his family and, thus, everything.

It'd be poetic justice if that is true. (Up until last week's episode I don't think I would have said that).

Very "Godfather Part II" ish.

Sounds very Shakespearean. As I said in another thread, Shakespeare rarely gave us a happy ending.

We'll see.

By the way the "final nine" has gone it seems to me Chase intends on leaving a few loose ends in order to make a movie. Doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed, it's been great, but I doubt Chase leaves "The Sopranos" for good after this.

It all boils down to what happens to Tony. If he's gonna be around, they can make one.

IMHO - No Tony, no movie.

When you think about it, there are only two ways it can go: Tony gets his or he doesn't. Now, how he gets it or doesn't can happen in an infinite number of ways. I find myself wanting justice for al those he murdered, had murdred, or let me murdered. For me, that comes in the form of his loss of his wife and kids - their deserting him. he murdered Chris (Carmela) and he did not prevent Jackie Jrs. murder (Meadow). That leaves AJ. But Aj still has this rather pristine view of his father - he really hasn't thought of him as a murderer. So, knowledge of the former two murders could do it.

Well Duh...

I'm sure most of the immeadiate family will survive and one of Tony's main guys (Either Silvio or Paulie NOT both). Plus the FBI guys and KABLAM, you got yourself a movie!

I agree Olivant.

I've always felt that if Carmela and/or Meadow were to find out that Tony sanctioned Jackie Jr's murder, they would abandon him. However, over the last few years, Carmela has grown even MORE fond of her lavish lifestyle, terrified of losing it, and Meadow has drifted more into denial about her father. So who knows ?

Tony losing his family would be the ultimate punishment for him. I just don't know which way it's gonna go.

Well, per the finale I wrote and posted, that's the way it works out. That would be emotionally satisfying for me.

*GASP* Kidding....


I agree, its gotta go either Tony getting his or not. It will be very interesting to see which one and how.....

Anyone think that Phil Leotardo might just take over North Jersey? Remember last season Tony warned Chris that war with NY would be bad because they have over 200 soldiers? Phil could just have everyone killed and move his guys in to take over. I would hate to see Phil survive, but I think that idea could happen.

Well, there's really no percentage in a mass murder like that. Like Michael Corleone told Tom Hagen, their soldiers are businessmen. They'll go where the money is. Considering all of the dons that have been overthrown, murdered, etc. by other wiseguys, it seems to make little difference to the soldiers who leads them as long as he's fair and helps them make money.

The NJ family is small. They seem to have more captains then they need. It wouldn't be a fair fight and Tony knows it.

I think there are four Capos....

Carlo Gervasi
Bobby Baccala
Patsy Parisi (Since Chris is dead)
Larry Barese

Though Ray Curto and Feech LaMann were Capos too yet once they died their crews went away. I think the Aprile Crew is extinct by this point.

What about Pauli and Silvio? Does someone really know who all the captains are? If so, please list them.

Silvio is consigliere, that's been stated many times. Paulie is a capo for sure. Remember in season 2, he and Tony were in Patterson next to the Lou Costello statue, Tony told him way back then he was getting "bumped up."

There are way too many capos though, I agree with that. It's like all chiefs, no indians.

Isn't Carlo the capo of the former "Aprile Crew?" If I remember correctly, Gigi took over after Richie consummated his engangement, then Ralph took over after Gigi tried to pass some gas, then Vito took over after Ralph lost his head, then Tony bumped Carlo up since he was doing well at the ports after Phil came out of Vito's motel closet. Shh...what an unlucky crew to be captain of...its like a death sentance.

And dont forget good ol' wingdigs is a captain too!!

No, Carlo is head of Jimmy Alterlies old crew. He's been a Capo since season four. Carlo got control of Vito's areas such as Espeland Construction once Vito was a dead. It's stated on HBO.com that Paulie is Underboss. So I guess the hierarchy in the family are so...

Boss- Tony Soprano
Consigliere- Silvio Dante
Underboss- Paulie Walnuts

Capos
1. Carlo Gervasi
2. Bobby Bacala
3. Patsy Parisi
4. Larry Barese

Defucted Crews
1. Aprile Crew
2. LeMann Crew
3. Curto Crew

Oh, yes. Thanks for clearing that up.


Paulie an underboss?!?!?

Grazie.

Has anyone given any thought to the post-Soprano period? I'm already having a tinge of withdrawal. Is there rehab for this kind of thing or maybe medication? What will I do on Sunday nights? It was bad enough between seasons. Reruns only do so much. Oh, what hath Chase wrought!

Well I loved Deadwood and the creator of Deadwood has a new show called "John from Cincinatti". It premiers after the Sopranos finale . I'll give it a look.

AJ worries about the world and his future The world? Dare I speculate?

"an affront to Meadow angers Tony"???? I wonder who and what??? And what he'll do. Another whacking?

Don't know what to conclude, but I am curious.


TIS

Oh,, and yes Olivant, I have thought about the Sopranos withdrawal syndrome. It's the highlight of my Sunday night. I am really gonna miss it.

One more thing, with only three episodes left, and after last week's I'm done guessing but...don't you all agree that something big will probably happen in each of the final three episodes? I can't wait to be shocked.

TIS

I don't think Chase has much choice. He pretty much has to go out with a big bang in each remaining episode.

Only three episodes till Olivant finally realizes Ade is dead!

Feech at one point was the boss of what is now Tony's family -- Paulie talked about "the Feech LaManna days in the 1970s" two episodes ago.

It is supposedly called the "Lupertazzi Family," right??

I think also at this point, Bobby Baccala ranks Paulie.

The Lupertazzi Family is the NY Family...

Dunno what to make of tonight's episode.

I have to watch it again, but I'm confused.... did Tony beat up the right guy?? I thought Coco was the one who tried to stop Lupo from talking to Meadow....

(Edit: Never mind... I just re-watched that scene; Tony got the right guy )

Paulie's speech about today's kids getting poisoned by the environment (when talking about AJ) hit home... the Soprano Family is dumping all the shit (asbestos) whereever they want... of course its gonna leech into the environment.

Well, well, well. That was interesting. Some great moments. Tony as the protective dad, pulling AJ out of the pool and into his lap. First reacting with anger, and then with love, like many parents. Beating the crap out of the guy who talked to Meadow that way.

Some very funny moments as well - the most memorable? The tooth.

Btw, he and Carm seem to be throwing way more crap at one another lately.

Edit: SC, I thought of that as well, with the asbestos. I also thought it was interesting that they all had typical suburban kids: ADHD, depression, anorexia, and so on.

Right, Carmine Lupertazzi died a couple of seasons ago. I'm not sure about Paulie being underboss. I don't think that was ever mentioned. In any case, I don't think Bobby ranks Paulie at all.

Another good episode. AJ's suicide attempt, although maybe not totally shocking that he might be thinking suicide, still was an OMG moment. His haphazard attempt leads me to believe he really didn't want to do it. Did anyone else laugh when Tony runs outside and sees AJ with plastic over his head? Ha ha Tony says "AJ, what the fuck?" Cracked me up for some reason.

The sleezeball that approached Meadow (forgot his name) pissed me off too. I sure would hate someone talking to my daughter like that. But, yea Tony went over the edge there too with teeth in his pant cuff and all.

This episode was definitely more about family and with both the kids, especially AJ's experience, it's confirmed that in spite of being a dickhead, Tony does love his family.

Oh, and the Feds again asking about the MidEastern guys and Tony IDing them. It HAS to be Tony will if "caught" get a lighter sentence. I can't see the story developing in two more episodes, so conclude that must be the purpose of these quick questions by the Feds.

Anyone have opinions of how this Feech thing will end up. Oh, and one more thing, who is it that Meadow is dating???? Refresh my memory please.

TIS

Good episode tonight, not great just good. Looks like all signs of peace between NY and NJ are gone after Tony curb stomped Coco. AJ screws up suicide? I could have told you that! Tony ashamed of AJ, what a great father . Phil can't come down stairs to reconsile with Tony? He was acting like a 12 year old girl, yelling at Little Carmine and Tony. I see a major blowup between the two next week.

Only two episodes...what does Chase have in store?

By the way, for those who weren't watching HBO before the beginning of tonight's episode. They said that The Sopranos won't be on next week, but will return June 3. Nothing like stretching it out.


TIS

He's Patsy's kid.

Refresh mine: what Feech thing?

Could this be a GF setup: Michael Corleone takes on the family's enemies and is victorious. In the same mold, Tony takes on Phil and comes out on top.

They usually don't air new episodes on a holiday weekend.

Sorry, I meant Phil L. Don't know why Feech came out. Wasn't that him yelling out the window at the end? What is he up to?

TIS

The little Shah of Iran was afraid Tony would beat him up (if he came outside).

Phil will wack someone in Tony's family. Guarantee...

I think it may be Bobby

As for Phil shouting out the window, did anyone else get a Monty Python feel? If Tony had yelled up to Phil that he was there for the Holy Grail!!

Well, the previews show Janis for the first time in awhile. So, maybe Bobby does get hit. And what about Sil telling Tony that someone is playing both sides? Who? Carmine? Hey, and don't forget that Paulie once cozied up to the NY family.

Yea, I wonder too about who's playing both sides???? Paulie does come to mind though. As far as Bobby, could be, but I'd feel kind of sorry for him if he did get whacked.

TIS

I think it is Patsy playing both sides b/c he has a grude with tony about killing his brother and about being passed over for captain for chrissy.

If I were to choose one who fit next episode's guy who is playing both sides I'd pick Patsy, too.

Think of the possibilities that opens up .... Tony whacks Patsy, his son Patrick finds out and tells Meadow (or worse, kills Meadow)...

Anyway, kudos to Patrick for standing up to Coco; Finn would have shit his pants. Kudos to Tony, too, for pounding Coco.

Paulie hasnt said or been mention much outside of the coffee maker he gave tony. that has been his polt contributions in the last few episodes

Is there any truth to the rumor that next week's episode is 90 minutes, and the final episode might be up to 2 hours?

I saw on one website that the next episode (#85 entitled "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee") is 2½ hours long. Dunno how accurate that info is because it MAY be confused with an HBO special about Wounded Knee (which looks pretty good).

I thought the next episode was titled "The Blue Comet", and the final episode was "Going Home".

Next Episode - "Blue Comet"
Final Episode- "Made in America"

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee is an HBO special special, not the Sopranos. The final two episodes will be both be an hour long.

This was a so so episode. A.J trying to kill himself and Tony making the comment that the rope was too long was funny. Suicide is never funny and should be taken seriously. Carmela was a true ass having no sympathy for Tony or his illness which is no joke, she is even blaming him for A.J. since it is hereditary. Phil is acting like a fool. It was nice to see little Carmine again.

I know, I wasn't gonna speculate, but hey, sue me. , but knowing there are only two episodes left, does anyone feel that it'll end with:

1) Tony dying
2) Tony & Carm splitting
3) Tony helping the Feds with the Mid-Eastern guys will somehow spare Tony somewhat

TIS

My theory is that once Tony goes to war with Phil, New York will quickly kill most of Tony's men, leaving Tony alone. Tony will need protection and since he helped Agent Harris, the FBI could provide that. He spills the beans on what New York is doing, who they've killed and their buisness operations. Tony, Carmela,AJ, and Meadow go into Witness Protection.

I agree with BDuff to a degree. I think the Soprano family, mob family that is, will be pretty much purged. All of the signs are pointing that way. I think Tony will probably survive as a shell of his once powerful self. I don't know about him cooperating but you never know.

Pretty good episode. I liked Patsy's kid sticking up for Meadow, that was nice. I think Little Carmine will turn out to be the one playing both sides. AJ's suicide attempt was on alot of the spoiler threads on other sites but I think it may very well have been a lucky guess. You really had to see that one coming.

Meadow deciding on law school instead of medical school, to me, is her way of telling Tony that she is a Soprano. Not that she could ever take on a Lady Macbeth-Connie Corleone type of role in the family business, just that she has contempt for the criminal justice system, as does her family.

Tony's proud of her, he loves her, that's why I'm starting to believe he might lose her. Whether it's through her death or her finding out something terrible about him, it would be a fitting end to the tragedy.

I've always felt that The Sopranos were Shakesperean, I now feel they're a Shakesperean tragedy. Something terrible is going to happen. With just 2 more shows to go, I expect lots to happen in the June 3rd episode. The finale on June 10th should be something else.

How about Melfi's shrink refering to the study that theropy does not help a sociopath, but enables or justifies his actions.

Melfi may change her treatment approach and add to the spiral downward.

Did you notice her reaction to Tony when he said

"Why me , I'am a good person"

Best line of the season, and he really believes it

I still say that AJ is getting more and more to be like Tony. Going to therapy. Happy one week, depressed the next. Gets off seeing people hurt, is upset by it the next. Suicidal tendancies and now the kid has the "blame the mother" syndrome. Sound familiar?

I forgot about that line. It's actually very important. Last week Tony seems to have started to embrace his dark side instead of fighting it. This pretty much adds up to what Melfi's shrink said.

Either him or Patsy Parisi. Most likely Carmine, he is still in some way or another apart of the Lupertazzi Family and will have to remain loyal. Phil would have had him killed by now if he wasn't. As for Patsy, he's never liked Tony since he had Philly killed and gave Chris the vacant Capo spot even though Patsy had senority. Though I think both will be dead when all is said and done.

Well, Chase has certainly laid enough land mines along the way tokeep us guessing about any betrayals and certainly about whatwill happen. It must also be kind of a struggle for an author: how to end things. Does Chase make Tony a hero? Does Tony get what's coming to him as a bad guy should? As I posted above, when Tony is fighting off the "bad guys", I'm for him (like Michael killing the heads of hte five families). But everything changes when he is just being a criminal. I dunno.

i thought it was a pretty good episode. i cant believe no one mentioned the reference to Goodfellas: Tony walking up to Coco and beating him with the hilt of the gun almost exactly the way Henry did to that guy in Goodfellas. thats what i thoguht anyways. i wouldve killed him personally if it was my daughter but.... lol

It was mentioned that Frank John Hughes was in the episode. Who did he play? Hughes is known for his role as Bill Guarnere in band of brothers.

I was a little surprised that Tony went after that guy. Afterall, he is a boss. Anything could have gone wrong. But reality has to give way to screenplays, I guess.

That's exactly what my wife and I said to each other. At the very least, if he felt the need to do it himself, a boss still would have taken two goons with him...just in case.

Like when Gotti, then an already high profile capo, went after Romual Piecyk, smacked him around, and stole a measly $300 from him because he was beeping his horn ?

Yeah, real life mob guys are way to smart for stuff like that.

Tony Soprano playing both sides? ie. THE "Soprano"


LOL
I dont believe it... just threw it out there...hmmm

Good episode. Was that Italian or Arab music being played at the end? I dont know, since I am not either. Did anyone else get the sense that AJ might consider becoming an Al Quada or something of the sort? That might set Tony up for choosing between ratting on his son or going to jail.

Phil is being totally rediculous. Tony had a legit beef to beat the hell out of that guy. Phil might try to make Tony suffer (as he has said before) by killing one of his relatives. With Chrissy dead, it would be either Bobby or a member of his immediate family. If Phil hits Meadow, Tony is left with AJ, who has more than the average college kid's problems.

Tony should just whack Phil and instill Carmine as boss.....


AHHH A 2 WEEK BREAK!!!

Point taken PB. However, the Gotti situation was a spur of the moment reaction. You and I both know that if a boss felt that he had to handle something, like Tony had to handle, himself, he would have 2 or 3 of his men standing around to just make sure that no one else would interfere.

Maybe even Patsy, now that his son and Meadow have a serious relationship. I don't think AJ will turn Al-Queda, I think the class he is taking on the Middle Eastern fued is a metaphor for Phil and Tony's relationship.

This season the best acting job will have to go to Robert Ller. He has really surprised me, all his scenes are great. I remember when he was younger. I didnt think he could act, but now my opinion has changed.

Tony wouldn't have much say in who became a boss in New York. However, I think he is going to go after Phil, in a suicidal, "I don't give a fuck" kind of way.

Tony nearly kills the guy who insults Meadow and in a previous episode is laughing after paulie makes a crack about Chris's daughter working at the bing when she grows up into an adult.

"Senator, we're both part of the same hypocrisy, but don't ever think it applies to my family."

THE MAIN QUESTION EVERYONE HAS ON THEIR MINDS BUT ARE AFRAID TO ASK:

---will Tony give that guy back his stolen $300.00?

The guy who got the crap beat out of him for giving bad news to Phil's crew.

***
"Oh, Poor You!" Tony is becoming his mother. He quotes her most famous line many, many times in an episode.

Followed by... "My offer is this Senator... Nothing" (Phil to Tony)

Actually, I thought Tony was holding a box-cutter, and use that to stab Coco's face with. Then whipped out a gun from his holster to belay that other freak sitting at the booth.

solid episode jus watched it on ondemand. just more groundwork for the rest of the show. best part was tony beating the snot out of coco, i wouldve done the same. little carmine has to be the one playing both sides with both relationships with tony and phil.

will there be a ny/nj war which eliminates tonys men?

ive seen sil but where does he really stand in this whole ny situatiaon. hes there but not really involved. and always cleaning.

phil is going to whack someone but would he actually kill one of tonys kids? i dont think so

cant wait for the final episode

That would very interesting... if "dumb" Carmine comes off as the master planner and is using Leoretardo as a pawn. That whole bit about not wanting to be TOP DOG in the family a few weeks back at the golf resort. Then last night he comes away looking like a victim and fool. Good setup if that is in fact the case.

Maybe not one of Tony's kids. BUT, he could take out one of Tony's family members.

Which one of Tony's family members have we not seen really that much of, except for one episode this year? Janice. She's been pretty much kept out of the story lines, kept in the background.

Phil lost his brother, his sibling. Maybe he wants Tony to know what it really feels like.

What if he kills the rarely seen Barbara. It would be a blow to Tony losing his sister. But the show really wouldn't be affected.

Hmmmm. That would be more devastating to Tony than losing Janice! Barbara, the innocent sister that really never had anything to do with the family or it's buisness. I like that Beth.

I speculated that little Carmine may be behind all this over in one of the earlier topics about a Sopranos episode. I felt that way right after he met with Tony at the Country Club.

For someone who told Tony that he doesn't want anything to do with the family business anymore, he sure seems to pop up at the most opportune times during a conflict.

Tried posting this earlier but the damn computer crashed.

Some observations on AJ:

AJ's attempted suicide was, for me, a gut-wrenching scene to watch. But one avenue left unexplored (so far) is that his medication(s) contributed to his problems.

AJ was on Lexapro. I know Wellbutrin was also mentioned in a previous episode, but I can't recall if AJ was given this or not. It's well-known that people taking anti-depressants like these should carefully watch for any sign of suicidal feelings. In some cases, they have an effect opposite from that which they are prescribed for. Often several drugs are tried before the "right" one is found.

I wonder if AJ's anti-depressants were exacerbating his emotional problems rather than helping. I'm curious as to why his psychiatrist didn't see red flags. (Remind me never to end up on his couch.)

Also, in real life, these drugs (like Lexapro) take at least four weeks for any real effects to be felt (with the majority of people). I wonder how long AJ had been on the medication; sometimes time-frames are a little unclear on the show.

Finally, since he is now hospitalized, I wonder what drugs (if any) they are giving him?

Signor V.

I posted somewhere else: why is Barbara in the show anyway? She's had two lines the entire series.

I never really understood the purpose of Barbara either. And, if they plan to do anything with her character, they'd better get the lead out because we only have two more shows to go. I tend to think that nothing really important will happen with her.

What disturbs me: Have we really seen the last of Uncle Junior? I don't recall seeing him in the promos for the next episode. It would be a pity to leave him the way we last saw him. I hope Chase has something better in mind for Junior.

Things seem to be snowballing quite a bit toward the series' conclusion. I think that with all the plot elements going on, they might have been better able to tell the story if the season had been lengthened by a couple of episodes.

We might even see Chris and Ade in a dream sequence!

Signor V.

Hey All,
I don't have any cousins or uncles who work for the show... I'm not psychic, but after reading through a few spoilers and watching the last 7 episodes pretty closely, here is what I think happens in the last 2 eps... I predict a bloodbath... Steven Van Zsant eluded to this in an article... (http://blog.nj.com/sopranos/2007/05/a_sopranos_bloodbath.html)

The following are in no particular order, simply numbered to make life easier!

1) Bobby gets whacked at the start of the next episode outside a hobby store. This has been reported on many spoiler sites, and although Bobby can't be verified as the target for certain, logically who else could this be? NJ will respond by killing Butch... That guy has to go!

2)Wedding bells will not be in the the air between Patrick Parisi and Meadow! I think Chase threw this in there as a lead up during Tony and Patsy's talk last episode; to make it seem as thought things were finally patched up between the two for good. Meadow will be shot but not killed while driving Tony's car in NY while she's visiting her old law firm where she was a clerk for a reference... It will be an accident, as the new york guys will simply assume it was Tony. Meadow's new boyfriend Patrick Parisi will be killed in the attack, further aggravating Patsy, who will blame Tony for it, after what happened with his Bro... Patsy will turn coat and be the guy playing both sides... This will be the slow start to the war which will go into overdrive at the end of the next episode...

3) After Bobby's killing and Meadow's shooting, not to mention AJs having been commited after attempting suicide, Carm is going to have had enough and will finally realize Tony will get them all killed, she will then take the family away using the "rainy day" funds she and Tony discussed earlier this season... Tony will not know this until after they are gone... AJ may or may not go with Carm and meadow, he may just follow in Uncle Junior's footsteps and stay commited. AJ is the only story I can't seem to track... he's a tough one, but I know he ain't killing Tony... the only person I can see him killing is Jason Parisi in revenge of his father's betrayal... if this happens it will be Ajs introduction into a life of crime which we will never see. He has developping the same "numbness" or "what's the point" attitude Tony has struggled with and may very well follow in his fathers footsteps too... We'll see! Janice will probably go back to Seattle after Bobby dies after a long speech or something...

4) Dr. melfie will stop treating Tony, and Tony may or may not kill her... she's been dancing with devil for too long and something's gotta happen to her, my bet is that after all that has happened to Tony and is going to happen to him, he won't be able to handle this last bit of support being pulled out from under him and will pull a Christopher (when he killed the writer of "Cleaver") This will probably go down in the last episode, and Melfi's therapist's warnings will end up being prophetic... Either that, or Tony will almost kill her, but spare her at the last moment.

5) At some point Patsy will help the NY crew stage an attack, possibly at the Bada Bing or maybe arrange something at Artie's restaurant while some of the NJ crew dines and a few people are gonna die.. I think Patsy, Sil and Carlo are the best bets as far as main characters go in that shootout, maybe Artie too. Artie hasn't been around this season and I can see him going out with a "bang", so to speak, with one final appearence. Tony may or may not be there, but he will survive this either way...

7) In the last episode I think NJ will hit back and a slew of others will probably get killed here... I'm guessing a few of the NY guys, including Little Carmine, Tony's last ally in NY... and I'm thinking maybe Paulie gets it here too... he'll be loyal to the bitter end.

8)At this point I think Tony is going to realize he is running out of soldiers and Phil is gonna realize that taking down Jersey is gonna be a bit harder than he thought, and starts to second guess himself; this will be his downfall... Phil didn't want to become Boss originally, I think he knew he wasn't gonna be very good at it... Tony being tougher and much better thug will kill him... I have yet to see Phil get his hands dirty very much... he didn't even take part in Vito's killing, he just watched, and that was VERY personal... Tony will decide to take care of Phil himself and he'll bring his last remaining guys with him to do the job... Everyone but Tony dies in this last shootout... In a one on one fight, Tony's gonna smoke Phil... it'll be a good one, but Tony will smoke him... I think it will come down to those two at the end... everyone else will be dead, locked up, or have already left...

9) Tony then goes to his last sanctuary, the duck pond, only to find that the aspestos he was responsible for, has chased the ducks away... accept one...who is dead and floating by where he stands by the lake... This will be the last straw and with no place to go anymore, having been responsible for the destruction of his last sanctuary, the departure of his family and the deaths of all his friends... with no one left to turn to he will kill himself, taking the cowards way out. He said he'd never do that but it's ultimately how so many depressed people end their lives after all other support mechanisms fail. I think he will meet his end at the hands of his own demons... The same thing he critisized AJ for trying to do last episode. He will not be an idiot like his Son and will succeed where AJ failed... Followed by a montage of some kind, a sort of life flashing before Tony's eyes kind of thing thing, where we see flashbacks of different characters and events... I think he'll drown himself in the Duck lake in much the same way AJ tried to kill himself, or he'll blow his brains out. The show will end with a nice tranquil shot of the lake... A boatload of chaos, murder and evil followed by a moment of tranquility and beauty now that all is finally said and done...

As for Junior, I think Junior is done, he won't die, he's just gonna fade away and become a washed up mobster in a mental institution. He made his own bed and now will sleep in it for the rest of his days... I think his story is already wrapped up.

Also, The feds are just a distraction in my opinion and I think they really are too occupied with terrorists to really pay much attention to Tony at this point. The arrest to start off the season was also to throw everyone off the trail of what's gonna happen... I think everyone is gonna die or leave... But mostly die.

People who will NOT re-appear in my opinion are Furio and Adriana... they are done...

Like I said at the beggining this is all just my own speculation... What do you guys think?

Cheers,
G.

I think I'm tired of trying to figure out what will happen... I'll just watch and see.

Welcome to the boards.

I think its a fit ending to his character (seeing him sitting with the cat on his lap).

Thanks for the welcome SC! I'll be watching too, but part of the appeal of this show for me is trying to figure out what will happen; cause it's kinda hard to do!! Chase is a gifted writer.

I agree about Junior I think what we have already seen was a great ending for his character... I don't think Junior will be back either, I think his story is pretty much wrapped up, and I'd be fine with the way things have been left too.

Cheers,
G.

No doubt about that.... I've been trying to figure out what will happen since I've watched this show and I'm almost always wrong... this season is no different!

You may be right, SC. Interesting point. We had his confinement, his loss of bodily control, finally - what we last saw.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this was a sly nod to GF1 (Vito and the cat). The contrast in the two "Godfathers" does give one paws....er, pause.

Signor V.
(The Artie Bucco of the GangsterBB)

FYI: As I'm getting ready for work I'm watching this "Jim Kramer Show" (took Imus' place I guess). Anyway, coming up next Steve Schirripa from the Sopranos. Anyone interested tune in. Don't know if I'll be able to see the entire interview.



(The Artie Bucco of the GangsterBB) That's great SV!

TIS

Did Bobby, I mean Steve say anything interesting? I doubt he revealed anything...

I think if we've seen the last of Junior it was a fitting way for him to go out. Old and alone, the gangster retirement package.

I read those spoilers about Meadow. One does have her, in fact, dying, but who knows ? The Baccala shooting outside the hobby shop has been in the spoiler threads for months. Again, who knows ?

Whenever I discount a spoiler as ridiculous, that's when it's spot on, like Tony killing Christopher. I also read that Tony will kill himself but I'm not buying that for a minute. That would truly be ridiculous.

I don't care if they make a movie or not, but for reality's sake, I hope they don't kill off too many characters. I mean, more characters have gotten killed off on this show in 8 years than in a real life mob war (Colombo war of the early 90's notwithstanding).

I think Tony will have Phil killed, which will be a suicidal act. Let's face it, the character is a 5 family boss.

Like Travolta said in SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER, "there's ways of killing yourself without killing yourself."

I'm actually not too upset they're taking the week off. I can re-watch the first 7 episodes of the season again and see if I can figure out what Chase has in store for us. I doubt it.

Well said, war with the Lupertazzi's would be suicidal but almost inevitable at this point. Tony and Phil have giant egos that they put ahead of buisness and would sacrifice anything to keep it intact. Phil seems more eager to go to war, knowing he would crush Tony's family. Tony doesn't want to go to war because it prevents his people from earning, but he doesn't seemed phased by the thought of war with Phil. Many of Tony's "hierarchy" will be picked off, the FBI will most likley be his only way...or suicide.

Tony acted like a finnochio they way that he let Phil talk to him. No balls.

that's the funniest sentence I've read in a few days. thanks for making me snort out loud (sol) at work.

My take is that, no matter what, never let another boss's crime syndicate see you sniveling with humanity and compassion. Makes you look weak, and that's probably what prompted Coco to do what he did to Meadow.

You're right. The camera panned to Coco after Phil joked about Tony (and it showed Coco looking disdainfully at Tony). Tony HAD TO beat the shit out of Coco (if only to save face) and I'm glad to see he did .

Am I the only one who is beginning to hate Phil's little cronie Butch? That guy bugs the hell out of me!

everyone's saying (here and on other boards) that they hate Butch, Butch should get it, nobody likes Butch.

But not once has anybody stepped out of the politically-incorrect box to say that Butch is just a weird-looking dude with that lazy eye. I Said it! All Butchy needs is a Captain Bligh hat, a pipe, and a parrot on his shoulder.

[best Jim Carrey voice]Whack him![/best Jim Carrey voice]

off-topic:

I'm happy to announce my promotion today from "button" to "made member," as this is my 101st post.

back on topic:

if Bobby is walking out of the Blue Comet, might there be Janis and the kids with him on this particular occasion? That'll be enough to wreck Tony big-time. Janis has always supported her husband's train hobby, so the odds of her being there with him are good. Bobby's obsession with model trains are no secret, and Phil might use that knowledge to his advantage. Tony lost Christopher, look out. Now you're gonna lose your next Protégé, and one to grow on if Janis happens to be there.

Phil: "It's just business, Anthony."

Well, after that beating from Tony, Coco's face was the one that needed saving!

Or, maybe they should have retitled the episode Tooth or Consequences?

Signor V.
(Ducking and Covering)

A scene was, indeed, shot at this model train store: http://www.trainworld.com

Maybe the spoiler of Bobby getting killed outside of a hobby shop has merit to it, after all.

BTW - The Blue Comet was a direct train to Atlantic City many years ago. Lionel does, indeed, make a model version of it.

Not to sound like annoying or anything, but Im sure I'm not the only one who is a little disappointed that people are not making use of the "spoiler warning" mechanism....

Okay, point taken, but this thread has SPOILERS in the title, so it's already implied.

Phew, thank heavens. I thought I was going to get a reprimand on my first day as a Made Guy.

Made guys don't get reprimanded. They get sent for.

Good one! I just thought that the spoiler warning in the title applies to that episode, not future episodes. Good point though.

Right back at ya' kid.

There are no "Captains" on this board. What's the ranking system like here? You go from Button, to Made, to what? Some have made their own ranks, but I won't even go there...

There are capos buttmunker.

Considering that Chris was family and called Tony, uncle makes me wonder. I wonder if Tony ever found out that chris supplied meadow with X in the first season.

Doubtful. Parents are usually totally obvious to their kids doing drugs. And Meadow wasn't exactly a falling-down druggie, so nobody's radar was up. And Chris was just a paranoid fuck.

AJ, on the other hand...

I forgot about that. Chris was still a bit of a lowlife back then, not that he evolved that much, just a little.

Remember he wanted to date Meadow's friend Hunter (played by David Chase's daughter) ? She was like 16 and he was already in his 30's.

Anyway, he initially thought that mock execution, by Junior's boys, was payback for selling drugs to Meadow.

LET ME BE THE ONE!

It wasn't Chrissy who wanted Hunter...it was Brandon! Chris's partner.

You're right! I stand corrected.

But it was Brendan Falone, not Brandon.

I know, some assholes just have to have the last word.

Does anyone think the RICO case that the Feds have apparently been building against Tony since the series began will come into play these last few episodes?

I don't think the RICO case will come into play at all... I think it's just another example of Chase baiting the hook. I think the Feds are genuinely worried about the terrorists, its in keeping with the times. I also think the weapons charge at the beggining of the season was another hook he dangled to make things look like they may go in that direction. In the end, this is the Sopranos, not Law and Order... Live by the gun, die by the gun has been a major theme in this show, I don't see that changing now!

I doubt there will be much involvement by the Feds or much legal RICO mumbo Jumbo. unless they rescue Tony in the nick of time before he's about to get whacked or something by arrsting him... I doubt it though, otherwise I think it's just Chase leading us on, as usual!

Cheers,
G.

Actually it was Brenden Filone!

That may be true, but I infer from the SPOILERS warning that the spoilers would only relate to matters up to and including that episode. If I posted "Chris gets killed by Tony in part 2 of this series" on the Series 6 part 1 topics, surely that would be considered too revealing wouldn't it?

Unlike AJ, I'm not the "foremost authority." My views are simply and purely spectulation, and in no way, shape, or form conclude to any factual episode synopsys. I'm just a jerk in the peanut gallery, shouting out my own views for people to see that I'm alive. "Poor me," I don't get enough attention, so this is what I do.

But I am neither affiliated with David Chase, nor am I a relative. Just a fan of the show with silly opinions that should not affect next episode's outcome. I will likely be 1000% wrong anyway (I hope - even I don't want to know what happens in the next episode, I too want to be surprised).

well, how many posts before I become...The Santino Corleone of the Gangster BB?

Just kidding, I would never presume to upserp the boss of the Family with my indulgences. No disrespect.

Resume with the convo.

Remember what happened to Carlo when he thought that he had rid himself of Sonny!

Well-well,

I think Tony will, in a fit of rage, end Dr. Melfi's role; Phil's crew will end Meadow AND her new beau (AJ and Uncle June are done with this storyline, for good); and as the NJ crew goes to the mattresses (where we'll see the end of Sil and Little Carmine, "boco-polo-poco (whatever the fuck his name is)", Butchie, and Phil), Carmella will take out Tony, and begin to consolidate her own power in a Newly-designed Structure within the NJ arm of the New York Mafia.
And I think this'll be done using complete "flashback" treatments of how and why she was always better, and more wise, and most-prepared, and best-suited to carry the NJ arm into the Future. I think the only ones who'll win will be Carmella, her new underboss Paulie, and her new consigliere--Furio, who's been teaching her a thing-or-two long distance, for a while now. And Janis will remain as well: to, y'know, occasionally piss the happy people off.
"If the Family doesn't kill you, the other one will." Good night and good luck. Selah.

Okay,
Bobbo

That was good, but you lost me at Carmela.

Like someone else said, "this ain't Italy." Meadow ain't taking over, and sure as shit Carmela ain't, either. Heck, Carmela kept her head in the sand all these years, living in denial, et al.

Tony certainly didn't trust her, as he's never once confided in her. He knew he could not trust his own wife with his work. Ain't that a kick in the head, especially considering how Carmela grew up.

Carmela was no Kay Adams. Carmela's family was "knee-deep in the hoopola," to quote an album title by Starship.

You a writer for The Simpsons by any chance?

Hey BM,

That's what I'm saying, man: THIS AIN'T ITALY. And, y'know, it's only a theory...all of the lies and distrust and power plays and infidelities came to a head for Carm, back in Season 4; And I think Chase will "go back" to many of those scenes, and show us how Carm has been much more calculating in her approach to Tony, and All She Owns And Controls; just think about it. Of course, in Italy (or Sicily, where the traditional rubber met the road when it mattered), "once upon a NEVER," right? But this is Modern-day America, and the Eastern Seaboard to boot...Carmella will be revealed as some sort of Mister Ripley/Michael Corleonesque "mastermind" smack in the middle of the very last episode...in my Wiseguy opinion. 'S'all I'm sayin', skip. Okay?

Okay,
Bobbo

And,

Great respect to you, Don Cardi; never thought I'd be addressed in person by such as you, sir. I only hang about and lurk occasionally, of course, and I'm flattered that you'd humor me a storyline thought, or three, or four...

Thanks, and I won't forget it. Selah.

Okay,
Bobbo

Some day, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me. But uh, until that day -- accept this justice as a gift on this day.

NO FLIRTING!!

Well.. was he acting like a finnochio or was he excercising his "Corleone Cunning" and "honing his therapy skills" ?

Honing his therapy skills? Oh yeah, the same way that he honed them when he murdered Christopher.

He's a mob boss for land's sake! He represents a family and he sits there and let's the boss of another family talk to him like he's some kind of a street soldier who's serving under him. He acted like a pu**y with Phil!

And as far as Corleone cunning, I think that you have your characters and your movies mixed up. Tony doesn't even come close to a Corleone.

I couldn't agree more with Don Cardi.

Some of you guys give Tony WAY too much credit for his leadership ability. Is he a "tough guy?" I suppose he is, but he's a lousy leader of men and as a mob boss, he's starting to really come off as pathetic.

Corleone? Okay, they were a bit of a fairytale, too. But if you're gonna compare one fictional character to another and you're trying to make a Tony Soprano-Michael Corleone analogy...

PUH LEEZE!! Tony wouldn't be fit to watch the door at one of Tessio's card games.

I think that Tony Soprano knows this: what's the point of getting into a heated argument in front of everybody? Isn't it better to be perceived as weak, then to "spring" on your victim when the time's right.

Obviously Tony Soprano is no Michael Corleone, but Tony's no moron. I think he knows exactly how to play Phil, and coming off as The Sad Clown at the sit-down proves that.

Although...

He did show up without any protection to Phil's house "with hat in hand, on bended knee," and could have easily been whacked.

We know what Tony is capable of, we know he isn't a pussy. He came across as one, and was willing to walk into a potential House of Horrors with Little Carmine, so I don't know if Tony is working with all his cylinders. Tony would have zero reason to trust Little Carmine, who could indeed be working the fence. "Cooler heads prevailed," Phil shouted, and many people think this means that Tony would have been assassinated in that house. And Tony would have walked right into that ambush, too.

Little Carmine's loyality is with NY, if anybody, because of who his father was. Tony can't trust him. So who knows what's going on in Tony's head. Maybe he is a finnochio.

I can't imagine any mob boss actually killing someone in his own house, especially with the crime scene techniques available today. It would have been too over the top, even for this show.

They killed Joe Pesci's "Nicky Santoro" in someone's house in Goodfellas.

Maybe they didn't care about that person who owned the house. If he gets busted, fuck 'em.

It is easy to kill someone in your own house. Listen, this is how I do it: knock em out (no blood), lay their body on a plastic tarp, then stab them. The blood gets on the plastic, you roll up the body in said plastic, then take the bundle out like it was a carpet. Easy-peezie.

If he was as cunning as you and Scarfather make him out to be, than he wouldn't have beaten the shit out of the guy, who disrespected his daughter, in front of everybody.

But Tony was emotional, then. He "lost it."

Nicky Santoro was the character Pesci played in CASINO.

Ugh, I meant Tommy.

He did not "spring" on his victim as soon as he found out what had happened to his daughter. Had he jumped in the car, went over, and then beat the shit out of him, than I'd give him the emotion excuse. Not the case.

Didn't he, though? After Meadow told him, he got up. Carmela asked him where he was going, he said "got a meeting, with Sil," something like that.

I think it was a lie. I think, unless I'm forgetting a scene in between, he went directly from his house to visit Coco.

If Tony couldnt watch the door at one of Tessio's card games, then anyone else in Tony's crew couldnt play the role of the oranges throughout the Trilogy.

Uh, okay...I'll buy that for a dollar, Bob.

I'd have to watch it again to be 100% certain. You may be right. But for some reason I think that he didn't go over there right away. As a matter of fact, now that I am writing this, I remember that the incident with Meadow took place in the evening and when she got home, she told them.

It looked to me like Tony went there the next day.

But regardless, it's really a moot point because the bottom line is that Tony has been punking out with Phil and as each week goes by, he's become less and less like the mob boss that he is supposed to be. His uncle and his mother were right. He's a woos!

I dont really know what you meant PB, but I meant that no matter how far Tony is from a Corleone, anyone else in Tony's crew is a million times farther.

I agree, I was just kidding you about the orange analogy.

I can't believe that we are even having a discussion putting The Corleones and The Sopranos in the same conversation!

No disrespect, but you sure are a different Mob Boss in this Soprano thread as opposed to Godfather threads.

Anyway, when Meadow was telling her mother about what Coco did, Tony came down the stairs fully dreassed, ready to go out. Meadow doesn't live at home anymore, and she was out late, so the news had to wait until the next morning.

What is that supposed to mean?

Why don't you ask him to elaborate? He's good at that.

Well, its like what Warren Beatty once said: "The Golden Globes are for fun...the Oscars is business."

You are very serious on Godfather threads. On Sopranos threads, you're very light. Not a put-down, just an observation. It's cool.

Ohhh ok!

The Godfather is a serious movie. The Sopranos is somewhat of a comedy.

"I'm gonna go listen to some Tony Bennett records."

I also think that killing Tony wasn't in Phil's plans. Everyone's house is someones house, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Boss' house... The Boss wouldn't have it. Also, Goodfellas is set in the 70's and 80's before DNA testing, the Sopranos takes place in the "lovely" here and now!



They would care if it was the Boss' house!



Why risk it when he could have just as easily lured Tony somewhere else for the meeting? The "cooler heads prevail" line from Phil could have just as easily been made in reference to one of their previous talks where Tony made the same comment... I think he made that comment to Phil a couple of times before. That's how I took it, as more of a jab at Tony. But as usual, I could be wrong! You just never really know with this character!

Cheers,
G.

Fellas,

I think it was Leotardo who acted like the dripping labia-and-a-couple-of-sides, there (apologies, Stallionette). Screaming from his top-floor bedroom, into the street? Women do that. It's a man who comes to collect (or pay) when he knows he must, with no summons necessary, of course...and, of course, Little Carmine just happened to be a useful tool of "getting in and getting heard." That's a line from Puzo, NOT Coppola or Scorsese, y'understand.
And I'm beginning to replay that scene of Silvio with his wife, from a recent previous season--it's Season 6, Part I, isn't it?--where he's considering his stature of Possible Boss. Maybe Carm will bring Silvio along, too; anything's possible, I agree.
I really, really DO expect Carmella to wind up with a Joker's Winning Hand, here, and I expect our WHOLE PERCEPTION OF HER ROLE AND CHARACTER to change, quite quickly and dramatically. Carbonera for everybody!! The end. Selah.

Okay,
Bobbo

Whilst Tony was beating Coco he had a look in his eyes we've never seen before, pure uncontrolled rage. We've certainly seen Tony commit come brutal acts, but while he was beating Coco (and talking to Carmine Jnr about the incident) he had a look of uncontrolable fury in his eyes, whereas every other time we've seen Tony commit acts of violence he's looked composed and almost life-less, except, maybe when he killed Ralphie.

After this epiosde, i can't help but feel Meadow is in line for something terrible happening to her. After all...

"When they come at you, they'll come at what you love..."

2 Hours isn't much time for a NY/NJ war at all, Not too many shocking things can happen while remaining realistic. I wouldn't expect more than 2 surprising things.

Really? Seemed good enough in the Godfather where the war doesn't start till an hour into the film.

Hey Longneck,

Totally OFF the subject, here, but I really dig that Thompson quote...which book did that one come from? One of my favorite writers of all time; and by far the most intelligent stoner and gambling addict in the history of the West, may rest in peace. Selah.

Okay,
Bobbo

Tony Soprano and Phil Leotardo seem way more hand's on than Michael Corleone ever was. Do Mob Bosses really get their asses in line to be shot at?

And all the time Tony used to go down the driveway to get his morning newspaper. Seems to me there never was any "peace-time" for this man. How easy would it be to have a sniper poised to take an easy shot at a big white target? Heck, Tony would go down in a bathrobe without a gun, so if someone was there, all he could do is try and run his fat ass up that hill back to his house. BANG. No more Tony.

Guess its a good thing he doesn't go down to get his paper anymore. And Carmela has the audacity to ask, "what are you afraid of? What's down there waiting for you, Tony?" Dumb ass.

Tony is no Michael Corleone. Michael was cool and calculating. Tony is hot headed like Sonny Corleone and we all know what happened to him.

I know.

What I meant was, Michael Corleone was always in the background, "pulling the strings," as opposed to Tony Soprano, who is never in the background.

If there is a war on the last two episodes of The Sopranos, me thinks Tony will be right there with all the main characters. No behind-the-scenes, for this dude.

The Sopranos has a lot more characters than The Godfather and with the show going for 7 seasons things are a lot more complicated and harder to wrap up in 2 hours.

Things have changed over the years. It is probably true that some dons are more hands-on these days. Then it may be that Vito and Michael were more removed from the action than was typical for dons even back then. Afterall, they are idealized characters.

Im sure Chase has something in mind. I was listening to Howard Stern because Steve Van Zandt was on and he said that the last two episodes are extremely violent. More so than what we have seen on the show before....sounds good!

Many of the Dons that aren't in the shadows are in the can or dead.

Seems to be the case....

Maybe they can do a Sopranos movie where Meadow can be Tony's lawyer in his RICO case, and the disarray the family would be in under different leadership on the street.

Just rewatched this episode; Coco's beating gives me so much satisfaction. It also happens to be one of the few episodes where the Family and family are given a great sense of balance; they're basically coming together, colliding, with Tony having to tell his guys about AJ's suicide, and Meadow being drunkenly harrassed.

I must say (and the same can be said for season four, too), that the second half of season six is much better the second time round.

For what it's worth, I agree; I'm pretty sure that Meadow doesn't tell Carm and Tony about Coco until the morning after. Tony's coming downstairs the following morning all dressed up to go out, when she tells him. I don't doubt that he had a meeting with Sil, but he was certainly rushing out the house, perhaps not to sicken himself anymore with what Meadow was telling him. There's a scene between Melfi and Eliot after that, and then it goes to Coco's restaurant.

Fantastic episode, by the way. Tony bringing AJ out of the pool was one of the most heartfelt moments in the show; a much needed one, I think, in light of what Tony did the week before, when he killed Chris.

As for Tony being a wuss, I'm not sure; he's definitely not as stubborn as Phil, and he was at least man enough to lose face and go to Phil's house (admittedly after Little Carmine brought him to his senses).

Kills a guy "like a son" to him one week, then saves his son the next week.

Maybe that's why The Sopranos is so entertaining

Someone remind me. What was Christopher and Tony's actual blood relationship, if any?

I believe that Chris was related to BOTH Tony and Carmela, in different ways of course. I have to check the book, then I'll post it.

No blood relationship.... Chris was Carmella's cousin.

Right...and the reason Tony calls Chrissy his nephew was becuase Dicky Moltisanti, Chrissy's father, was like a father-figure and mentor to Tony.

Bricks for sale. Gawd, is nothing sacred..haha.

http://www.comcast.net/tv/index.jsp?cat=TELEVISION&fn=/2007/08/09/735550.html

They expect them to go for $25-50 apiece!!

I love "The Sopranos" as much as the next guy but thats ABSOLUTELY CRAZY! (I went to see the store a few years back).

Remind me. Was it in the last season that Phil got out of jail?

Didn't he first appear at the start of Season 5.

That is correct. In fact, that episode (Two Tonys) is on tonight on A&E.