Season 6, EP 5: "Mr. and Mrs. Sacramoni Request" **SPOILERS**

***Possible Spoiler Alert***
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Rumors floating around say this episode might be the turning point in the relationship between Phil Leotardo and John Sacramoni. Apparently John breaks down at his daughters wedding. Phil sees this a sign of weakness, and possible opening to take over.

Good.... I hope that fuckface Phil gets whacked!

"Johnny files a petition to attend his daughter's wedding and Tony hires a new bodyguard."

Frank Vincent told O&A this morning that his role is about to get bigger.

I can see where Phil might make a move on Johnny Sack. I think he is wondering about Tony also. Did you notice the quick look of befuddlement on his face when Tony said that there's enough garbage to go around?

I'm ASSuming at some point we're going to see NY vs NJ.

I thought we saw that last season. Tony killed Tony B to avert a war. IMHO he knows if he goes up against NY he will lost. Look how Phil put one of T's guys in the hospital. Also IMHO Tony is what holds his crew together, without him they would be finished.

I can't wait 'till tomorrow night. That and combined with Spring Break is great.

I had always assumed that Phil would become a major character at some point considering they went for a well-known actor to play what was at first a background role. I'll be glad to see Frank Vincent shine.

Sadly, my spring break doesn't start for another 5 days

Ladies and Gentleman, it is SOPRANO TIME!

Good episode.

BTW, does anyone here notice that every week this week, somebody has a shitty week?

First Tony being shot, then Sil not cutting out to be a boss in a humiliating fashion, then Paulie with his mother, and now Johnny Sac with his sister/wedding. Damn!

i think i may throw it out here and say that mr. johnny sac will not be with us at the end of the season. what do you all think? and all the layered things happening. vito and his gayness...phil and his treatment of tony after tony says no...now tony seemingly returning to form. and how about dr. melfi playing the roll of consiglieri.

How about the ending?

Was it me, or did it sorta backfire?

Speaking of which, what did JS and Tony say in code talk? I couldn't totally realize it.

Vito's right on the verge of being found out. And he's getting super paranoid.

i wasnt feeling this episode until the middle end, great though once again. the end with tony picking the biggest guy out of them all to beat on just to prove he was still the top dog was great. we are seeing someone who is obviously "weaker" in mind but smart enough to display his power to ensure his own safety and reputation.

Another good episode.

The scene with Johnny and Tony talking business with the relatives was funny, but seeing Vito dancing in the S&M bar was hilarious.

I think the best part of the episode was Tony's insecurities at the end, with him in the bathroom.

Man, I hate to "movie guess", but I can't help but wonder if Vito "checked himself out" at the motel...

Good episode, tho!

Great episode as always, but I find it a little questionable that Tony was able to beat up his bodyguard like that. The man was a lot bigger and stronger than he was, but then again he looked like he may have been more into grooming himself and putting on a show. Tony on the other hand has the experience and the fighting ability from the mean streets.

I liked Vito's little reference to Cagney with "Waddya hear, waddya say?"

That was bullshit ending. Tony couldnt stand to take off his shows, but is going to beat up his bodyguard. Reg he could cause Tony isnt small, but not after what has happened.

Vito is def dead.

hey look...i think it's definatly possible that tony could beat him up. besides what the fuck was the bodyguard gonna do? he would have had his head on a platter in two minutes if he tried to seriously hurt tony.

That was my thought too. I expected it to end with him killing himself. And yes, it was hilarious seeing him in the gay bar in that "get-up" ha ha

Actually I think Tony pulled off that "stunt" very well beating his bodyguard. I think it was clever writing having Melfi tell Tony that you can control how people perceive you and that particular advice stuck with him. I assume him getting sick in the bathroom was mostly due to his current shotgun recovery, but I think the crew bought it.

I don't quite understand though what it is exactly that Johnny wants him to do.

Also, the location of the wedding reception...is that a real hotel?? It sure was nice.

TIS

Paulie: Allegra means happiness in Italian Chris: What the fuck does that have to do with cold medicine.

lol I thought that was great

Johnny Sacks wants Tony to whack Angelo, the guy who supported Carmine Junior for power. He feels Angelo will find a new person to challenege Johnny Sacks rule over the family and poses a threat to his power. John doesn't want to know the order came from him, as it'll make his captains nervous. I thought this episode was great, and is one of the best episodes of the new season.

Johnny wants to Tony to kill Rusty Millio, not Angelo. Angelo was killed in season 5 by Phil, which is what set off Tony B and was the catalyst for THAT whole fiasco.

Didnt Angelo die last season? I though Phil and Johnny asked Tony to kill Rusty?

don lights...your thinking of last season. angelo is dead. Johnny wants tony to get rid of rusty millio.

Rusty(Frankie Valle) is the guy Johnny wants Tony to kill.

hate to see frankie vallie go though...they should have used him a little more if you guys know what i mean.

If it was a roach motel (where the roaches check in but don't check out) Vito must be a cockroach. :rolleyes:

Bye, Bye Vito.
If he was smart, he would of went outside and clipped the two when they went to get in their car.

Then again, I guess he didn't have room for a piece in that leather outfit of his!

A pretty slow episode but it wasn't without it's moments. Some thoughts and observations:

- Chris's cold medicine crack about Allegra's name was very funny.

- Johnny Sack's daughter Catherine is pretty nice lookin I think. (not Allegra the cow who was to be married, er...uh...I'm sure she's a great gaal, but she's not much of a looker).

- The whole scene where Johnny Sack was planning his daughter's wedding in jail was a riot I thought.

- Johnny Sack's GQ magazine comment was pretty funny also I thought.

- Tony and Johnny talking business at Allegra's wedding in front of the older hearing impaired relatives was needless to say quite amusing.

- Oh yeah, Jamie Lynn if you ever visit these boards, I am asking for your hand in marriage. I'm not having too much luck with mail order brides and dating services so please, consider my proposal. I will make you very happy and I know that you will make me very happy.

I know there's been some discussion and doubt that Junior might be faking his "dementia". Do you still think it's possible? I thought at first it might be possible, but I think tonight he seemed genuinely confused, and obviously wanted to go home.



TIS

Thats it. Its all about how others perceive you and Tony was definitely out to make a statement. He purposely looked for the baddest guy to pick on (so the others would be more intimidated). You saw the look of satisfaction on his face just before he threw up for the second time.

It'll be interesting to see how the gun buy goes down with the Arab guys.

Based off what we saw tonight, I can see Vito, Rusty, and maybe even Junior all buying the farm within the next 2 episodes. Next week looks to be very eventful.

As far as the episode caliber, I thought it was good. My ranking of the Season 6 episodes so far...

1. Members Only
2. Join the Club
3. Mr. and Mrs. Sacrimoni Request
4. Mayham
5. The Flesh Part of the Thigh (The only one I actually thought was bad this season)

Arab guys looked like Feds to me. Just wait and see.

I know the bodyguard was really buff and in shape. Tony is a big guy and not in good shape. Don't know if in reality a one on one fight between the two, who would win. However, in this case, Tony had the element of surprise on his side, throwing the first unexpected punch which gave him the edge. Did you see the shock on everyone's face? They were totally baffled. Then again, what do I know about fist fights?

TIS

One thing I was kinda curious about...when the guy started to try and fight back a little, no one else did anything. You would think that right away, they would step in and try to break it up or something, even right after Tony threw the first punch.

Nah, just because one has muscles doesn't mean they know DICK about fighting. Tony has had a good long experience with fighting, knowing how to throw the beatdown, and take punishment.

Besides, the bodyguard probably realized as well that with 6 wiseguys in the room, if he tried to seriously fight back, he would default for good on his gym membership.

Anyway, as for Chris....imagine if it turns out that he indirectly help fund/arm some terrorists? The irony!

Seems like Chris was getting a bit mouthy this week also.

and was that named inked over on Paul's shoudler that use to say Mother on his tattoo?

Oh, is that what the tattoo scene was about??? I didn't really notice or get the connection there. I had assumed Tony was checking everyone out deciding at that moment who was going to be his punching bag. :p Nice observation FS. I'll have to rewatch it.

TIS

you both are right!

The MOTHER tattoo was "modified" and Tony decided that Paulie was too old/worn down.

Did anyone catch what it said?

I thought it said "GOOD LUCK." I'll be watching it again when it's on in like 45 minutes...but at least that's what I was thinking that it said.

The bar over it said Good luck.
then the box in the heart below it was inked out.

Funniest line of the night: Tony asking Dr. Melfi for a mercy fuck.

Someone here was thinking that it was rude to ask for money to cover a gift.
How about Tony asking Johnny how much the wedding was setting him back!

Now that takes balls!

I believe that was "Leonard's Of Greatneck." A pretty famous catering hall on Long Island. I've been to several weddings there over the years, but none in the last few years, since they re-did the place.


Don Cardi

Best Sopranos i can remember in recent years was the near-death episode a couple of weeks ago. Finally Chase got something right with all his creativity... this episode on the coma/near death was very profound, I wish there were more quality episodes like this.

I think tony was checking other men's arms, seeing who had the most muscle, etc... he was picking out his prey... and its true... sure this 20-something kid could bench press more than anyone, but fighting is a skill and has NOTHING to do with strength... i am actually wondering if they crew knew tony is feeling a bit insecure/insuperior and he had to prove something to himself, that kid was easy prey... even still, old age is catching up to all of them... i think that was the main point of the episode... especially since they have all been talking about their ailments, silvio with the asthma attack, paulie saying he cant do chinups, vito talking about losing weight and living longer...

As for the whole vito thing... it made no sense, why should he, being a capo, fear the 2 young soldiers (if they were even of that status), a man like that would not be, or should not be intimidated by them, and if they mouthed off, they would have surely learned their place quickly with a message... so i am not buying it, seems like the writers were lazy on that one... could have been something more interesting there..

Well I don't know about that. What kind of explanation could he possibly offer in that situation, whatever rank he might be? I thought he mustered a decent one, the whole "joke" thing, but obviously there's little you can do there to avoid the truth.

Well, whattaya know! JRCX finally joins up after what, 5 years of invites? :p Welcome aboard.

Next weeks episode looked like they were having a funeral. "You are not going to believe this," states Chris. I have a feeling Vito killed himself.

I agree Paul! If not next week, it'll be soon IMHO. Vito is history. I imagine Finn will be relieved.


TIS

Don't be surprised if Vito is around a little longer than expected.

I don't think Vito commited suicide, sure, he is afraid that those two guys will say something, but I don't think that Chase would have another sucide so quick. Especially Vito.

Yes, you could very well be correct. It's totally speculation on my part anyway.

Thinking back to the scene when Carm told Tony to "watch" Vito last week, remember? Then, they replayed that portion before last night's show started. It could indicate (again speculation), that there will be an upcoming storyline where Tony will take heed to Carm's words. Exactly what it'll be is anyone's guess.

TIS

Does anyone have any insight into who those two guys that saw Vito at the gay club were? Who are they under directly? Vito is a Captain, these guys seem to be nobodys, but by the way that they talked to Vito it seemed like they were old friends, and one turns out to be gay.

Also, the fight between Tony and "penne arrabiate" was a great lead into Tony asserting his force. Just look at all their faces in shock.

Chrissy, Chrissy..this guy is always in a problem. His own crew shot him, heroin, adriana...a long line of mistakes which will eventually come back to haunt him. And if Chase does adds a dose of terrorism into the mix, only a long spiral down awaits the Soprano crew.

The last 20 minutes or so made this episode. Phil speaks very openly on his thoughts about John. Something that Tony can prey on maybe later, due to this favor that Tony agreed to now.

I am very disappointed however with the character growth of AJ so far, but hopefully I will be proved wrong. He is still the annoying little kid from season 1. The producers could have got the character maybe to hit the weights or something, I just find his whole character out of main storyline, which he should not be since he is Tony's son.

HIGHLIGHT OF THE EPISODE: No, not the earthquake at the end of the episode..had to get a ginny joke in...but Uncle Junior's few moments on camera. He is a sick man, and everyone fails to see this. I feel sorry for his situation, and I do not think Tony should allow this to be happening to his uncle. I thought maybe that his dreams about dementia would lead to a reconcile after his hospital time, but in the end, his stubborness remains on this fact with his uncle.

There are so many storylines to follow, and I look forward to next week.

Question to the FORUM: Do you think Meadow and Finn will break up or get married??

A presto

I don't agree with you in your opinion of Tony being stubborn by not forgiving Uncle Junior. You have to put yourself in Tony's shoes, HE WAS SHOT. Not to mention he almost died because of it. Also Tony already forgave Junior once for trying to have him killed how many chances should you give him? I think it should be noted that Tony probably hasn't seen or heard anything about Junior either I cite Carmela in the last episode pulling Junior out of the paper so that Tony wouldn't see.

There are a lot of storylines it seems. The two guys in the gay club that busted Vito, I thought were "collecting" money or something. I don't know their names though. Even in church he has to use the "f" word.

TIS

Highlight of the night, and you missed it.

The headline in the paper of the section carm removed

Don "Squirel eone" with that picture of Junior. Classic

Also I could'nt get over Vito in that get up at the bar. That hat LOL. It seemed like he did somewthing wrong to Chase and he purposely wrote that in to get back at him.

Meadow and Finn-No Fire-No Wedding.

Good Episode

I think Chris is going to report the Arabs to agent Harris, and something bad is going to happen. Either the Feds are going to talk Chris into giving up more than just the Arabs, or Tony is going to find out he talked to Harris and get the wrong idea.

I do not think Meadow and Finn will get married.

Also, I think Tony's fight at the end was due to the way Phil reacted about Johnny Sack. He wanted to make sure his guys didnt act that way about him.. trying reinstate his leadership and authority (not that Paulie will get "it", he has been drawing further away the last few seasons).
I also personally think Paulie will get whacked before Vito does.

Paulie has always been a bit of an odd ball, but sometimes its hard to believe that he's drifted so far from his former self in the last three seaons. season one through till the second last episode of season three had him being extremely loyal.

I know, he started changing when he got back from his stint in the Ohio prison. He felt slighted while he was in, felt he wasnt getting the proper respect due.

I maybe wrong (and probably am) but I see a major war between NJ and NY this season... thru this I see most of the major players getting taken out (Paulie, Sil, Tony, Phil, Vito, Johnny Sack, etc..) and the crew being run for the future by AJ and possibly Chris (if he survives that is)

AJ? Never....i think Meadow has a much stronger personality then AJ, and that should tell you about whether or not Aj can run the business. Tony's not getting taken out...and i don't know about this NY vs. NJ thing. We've been led to believe that's going to happen for a few seasons now. Besides ever since season four they've been making remarks on the show about how NJ is just a "glorified crew."

Vito is a moron... If he was hiding that he was gay, why would he go to a club that was being profitied by the MOB?

I will make a wacky projection.. Vito goes to the FBI and turns into a snitch.

I think that's just the reason they will make it happen this season. Because they have hinted at it and not paid it off, everyone is beginning to dismiss it and therefore I think they will pull it out.

I honestly never give Meadow much thought about taking over or being involved in the "family", but I can see it when I do think about it.

Antoni, I think you are right about Tony. He picked a fight to prove to himself and others that he still could get it on because of Johnny Sack crying and Phil's reaction to it. He looked at the arms et al to decide who he would take on. His bodyguard didn't fight back because you don't punch out a family boss if you want to live. Didn't you hear Sil telling him don't do it?

I'm wondering if we are missing the target. Could it be that a member of Tony's blood family is a target. You have the wedding of Sack's daughter, Tony talking to Meadow about getting married, and Tony smiling over at Meadow at the wedding. I wonder if this is a setup for her kidnapping or accidental shooting ala GFIII. When Carmel walked to the end of the driveway to get the paper, a hit or kidnapping was the first thing that entered my mind.

Interesting point to contemplate olivant. Let me modify it a bit.. whaddya think of AJ being the victim vice Meadow? Would help bring about the war and cement Meadow in the family.

Could be any one of them actually. What if Tony marries Meadow off to the son of another family instead of to Finn?

Do you remember that previews scene which shows AJ desperately running to a door to leave? It looks like it's some type of office like a police station or maybe he's trying to escape a hit.

the body guard actually did attempt to fight back by getting up and lunging at tony like a football player, arent those grounds for getting murdered?

goodfella i do not see the bodyguard returning to the show ever again. he is sleeping with the fishes.

In the season preview there was a seen with AJ in what seemed to be a hospital of some sorts with wired glass. I noticed the place Uncle Junior was in had the exact makeup of that place AJ is shown in. Watch both if you can, I think if you have OnDemand you can. Pay attention in the scene with AJ its very quick but try and look for a mantle in the right hand corner you can see one very similar in the scene I mentioned with Uncle Junior. -Take it easy

No way they killed him.

As Groucho Marx once said "i dont want to be a member of any club that would have me as one of its members". So once you stopped asking i figure i would check it out... besides i wanted to see if any one thinks the sopranos is as disappointing this season thus far as i do... the near-death episode a couple of weeks ago was brilliant, unfortunately that cannot carry the whole season...

I did catch the newspaper headline, i just thought the look on tony's face was more hysterical when AJ's girlfriend said she does not eat seafood because of toxins as she takes a drag from a cigarette...

Ah, I thought that had something to do with the sushi.

You are right, they would not kill that young musclehead, no reason to... he just was to be made an example of... and killing is a liability... a dangerous one... just like tony told him to chill when those guys cut him off on the road, same way tony will not go out of his way to draw any more attention t him than what he has... they kill when they absolutely have to, and killing for no reason just brings unwanted attention from the law/police... if there is not money involved, there is no sense to it...

I doubt they will kill T's new or should I say ex bodyguard. Look at George who used to work at the Bing, the guy T used to take his frustrations out on. I believe he is still alive but working someplace else.

Actually Mick, from what I understand it was Joe Gannascoli's suggestion to Chase to continue on with the Gay storyline. It was a way for Gannascoli to assure himself a bigger role on the show this season.


Don Cardi

Actually Mick, from what I understand it was Joe Gannascoli's suggestion to Chase to continue on with the Gay storyline. It was a way for Gannascoli to assure himself a bigger role on the show this season.

Don Cardi [/b][/quote]I am laughing just thinking about it. I guess an actor will do anything to increase a role or stay around. He looked like he belonged in "The Fat Village People:. If Vito killed himself that will be a letdown.

BEST line of the show
"my uncle tried to kill me agian"

how many of you can say that

Hey, I was just speculating on the reoccurence of the song "The Three Bells" by the Browns. This song is divided up into three parts, each part telling the story of Jimmy Brown.

In the first part they sing about how when Jimmy was born the chapel bells were ringing in celebration. The second part talks about how the church bells were ringing when Jimmy got married. Finally, in the third part, they sing about how a single bell was rung when Jimmy Brown died.

So in last week's episode, they played the first part of the song when Jason Barone was rowing his boat, to probably symbolize his youth. They played the second part in this week's episode when Vito went in hiding in the motel, possibly to make some sort of sly reference to his desire or love for men. I think in next week's episode they are going to play the third part of the song right before someone is killed, possibly Rusty or somebody else.

Vito we know won't be killed in next week's episode because he still has to be wowed by an act of heroism a few episodes later.

Hey now thats something, I had no idea. What do you think about this:

In the season preview there was a seen with AJ in what seemed to be a hospital of some sorts with wired glass. I noticed the place Uncle Junior was in had the exact makeup of that place AJ is shown in. Watch both if you can, I think if you have OnDemand you can. Pay attention in the scene with AJ its very quick but try and look for a mantle in the right hand corner you can see one very similar in the scene I mentioned with Uncle Junior. -Take it easy

Ok, by chance i just caught the end of the last sopranos, where tony beats his driver... you hear someone say "my arm", it could be the young driver he beat, or it could be tony, but i dont think it was tony, but he was also clutching his arm when he goes into the bathroom and limps away... i think it has some sort of significance of tony checking out everyone's arms, but tony had his right arm in a lock, i wonder if it was the kid yelling "my arm" because he was deep down just a pretty boy and worried about all his hard work on his arms/body being ruined by having it brokend and taking time to heal/rebuild, etc... maybe i am reading into this too closely, but there is an underlying theme here and i wonder if anyone else picked up on it...

maybe, did you see what i noticed? you don't think thats significant?

Muscle definition doesn't neccessarily equate with stronger. The strongest men in the world are bulky and "fat," unlike the kind of Olympic musclemen you see all the time. Tony's like a bull. And yeah, actual experience has a lot to do with it, too. Look at Bruce Lee-- he was probably one of the strongets men in the world in his day and he was like 5'7" and wiry.

Also, the little fight had nothing much to do with strength, anyway, but fortitude and reflexes.

good episode.

will re-watch it later and post some musings i will innevitably have.

till then gentlemen...adeiu.

Some of the guys yelled "Don't" at the bodyguard when he started to attack Tony. You don't hit a boss. But he didn't listen and instead went after him. Tony luckily caught up his arm and hit a couple of times in the stomach. Thus, he proves he's no Johnny Sack on a crying jag.

Jimmy Brown by the The Bells - that was one of my mother's favorite songs. I so love the choice of music. They combine oldies and not so oldies. Just another fantastic feature of a fantastic show.

When Tony is in the bathroom looking at himself in the mirror it sounds like he says, "I am back" I don't think the bodyguard got one shot in for Tony had him in an armlock. They both did collide with the refrigerator however.

WEDDING BELLS

beautiful song that i was shocked to hear in sopranos....and then twice! paulie...vito....NOW..... junior!!!

happy easter boys...

Tony had a 'Yoda' moment when he beat beef cake's ass....the producers finally gave us some insight into Tony's abilities....everyone in that room knew he COULD do it, but not after surgery and not against that young bull.

Tony is old school......and you are not

THE BELLS
thats what i meant....i love the weekends, (WINE) WOMEN AND SONG is a good philosophy!!!....someone is dying, and i think since the first two verses of "jimmy brown" have appeared with paulie then vito means its someone close to tony....


cheers to armageddon boys....I REALLY DO LOVE THIS SHOW

In a way, Jimmy Brown conveys the sentiment of "usual and customary". For those familiar with the lyrics, you get the impression that Jimmy Brown simply lived then died and that's its. Kind of like life in the Mafia - you are only as good as what you earn or until you are gone. Think about it. How often do we hear about Jackie?

I tend to skim read the first two pages of these threads, and then post my thoughts; too much second-guessing about the next episode, too much wanting to be proved right for my liking (not a bad thing, but I need to avoid spoilers at all costs with this show).

So, a very good episode; clever parallels between the two Families, here, both weakening, it seems, at the top: Johnny Sac incarcerated and crying at his daughter's wedding, and Tony collapsing over the undoing of his shoes - both in public, too. Subtle indications of it all going tits up, I think. The shit is certainly hitting the pan for everybody, it seems: people who don't have leaderships capabilities are getting too big for their boots, Tony is becoming more psychologically tormented every week, desperate to reclaim his firm grasp on his crew, and New York seems inert, despite Phil's ambition.

Vince Curatola proves with each episode he's in what a fantastic actor he is.

By the way, I think Buscemi's direction, for once, brought unnecessary attention to the creation of the series; normally I like--look for, even--some intertextual mark in stuff, but I thought the "6 Weeks Later" and reliance on dissolves and fades to further time and narrative seemed to run contrary to the pace of the show.