Season 6 Ep 2: "Join The Club" ***SPOILERS***

*****************CONTAINS SPOILER MATERIAL*****************


Tony encounters trouble during a business trip to the West Coast, and the New Jersey faction mourns the loss of another of their associates. Meanwhile, Christopher discusses terrorism with the FBI.


[ Just trying to be consistent w/ Subject --JG ]

He's going on a buisness trip even after what happened at the end of the first episode?

Apparently HBO decided to drop the whole "Is Tony dead?" thing.

This is on HBO.com...

I'm beginning to think the whole Tony getting shot thing was a dream (he ate too much sushi and had a nightmare).

I just hope the next 2 or so episodes aren't a dream sequence, while tony is in the hospital.

Now airing suckahs!

After seeing that doctor with the flashlight when tony looks at the copter, Im not ruling out the possibility that this is a dream we're watching.

Tony's having a hell of a dream.

I told you guys....in that spoiler-lific text from the first episode summary thread.

This is a dream, and other shit happens as Tony is out of action for now...

Tony fighting the Monkish Mob now.....

Hey, Paulie traded his Eldorado in for a CTS just like me.

Decent episode.

Now A.J. is out of college, swears blood revenge, and.....on his way to joining the family business as well?

Is Paulie trying to assert his authority early on, to make way for him to possibly become the Acting Boss?

i've just finished watching the episode and i've been trying to choke back the saddness. the scene were tony pulls out his tubes and carmala starts bawling nearly had me in tears. when a.j. promises revenge i definatly felt his anger. and when tony is sittying on the bed looking at the sunset i truly felt dispair. i don't know how this will end, but this episode broke my heart.

if this episode alone doesn't secure the whole cast and crew and emmy, then i don't know what good t.v. is anymore.

AJ = Michael Corleone?

I thought this was a very good episode. There was great acting all around, we also see Gandolfini's versatility, basically playing a whole other character in the dream sequences.

Can't wait till next week.

Looks like AJ will turn out to get even more annoying, especially if he actually does what he discussed in the hospital room.

I love Junior. "Take your ultimatums and stick 'em in your ass."

Just curious, does anyone remember Tony having a second sister, or am I forgetting something?

Yeah, Janice and the other one. I can't think of her name.

She appeared at Livia's funeral.

I will go the other direction, I thought this wasn't a great episode, it was very confusing. I just wish they would stay in one direction and keep going. The dream stuff gets people very lost.

I do think it sets up alot of angles.

thats barbara, the first episode i can remember her appearing in is in the 2nd season finale when tony and her are discussing livias living situation, but im sure she appeared before that.

Overall, a good episode. The dream sequences seemed a little more symbolic than anything else, like maybe the events themselves don't indicate anything, but they may have parallels to events that have/will take place in Tony's real life. AJ's speech about Junior has me really intrigued, and the power struggle for next week looks like it'll be fantastic.

When the episode first opened, and Tony was in CA, I thought "Oh no, don't tell me it's all a dream." :rolleyes: I couldn't believe Chase would use that storyline. It was clever how we were tricked in the beginning. When it flashed to the hospital, I was so glad I was wrong.

Another good episode IMO. Junior seems out of it (or is he??), I can see Tony's crew in turmoil as to who is going to take over, although didn't Silvio say he was??? And I agree as bratty as AJ is, I think perhaps this is his "wake-up" call and he'll at least attempt to follow-thru with getting even with Junior.

I too think that this was a touching episode. I found myself a little misty eyed when Carm was reminiscing in the hospital. Say what you will about her, and the fact that she gets everything she wants, and knew what she was getting into when she married Tony, etc.. It was obvious in tonight's episode that she truly loves Tony. Excellent acting too btw. She looked and acted worn and torn, like she's been thru the wringer.

On minor notes:

Did you notice in Tony's dream (coma) that his kids were little?

Did you catch Vito's remark on homosexuals when they were talking in the hospital?

When Tony was in CA and the copters kept flying low with the search lights.....happens all the time here. Just the other week I swear it was concentrated on my house only.

TIS

The dream sequence was symbolic of Tony's situation.

His identity being lost at the time, him being stuck, and stranded in a town of which he can't get out. It's symbolic of the coma he's stuck in.

I'm not sure about the dream segments. My family doesn't like them, and they bitch because they're "boring". Then again, when it comes to television, my family is very two-deminsonal. I like them every so often as a change of pace. Mainly interesting, and some times humorous. I stand indifferent with dream episodes.

Good post, TIS. I definitely agree with you when it comes to Edie Falco's acting in this episode especially. I felt very moved by her performence in the hospital. The little things too, with the dream, and what happened at the hospital were interesting.

Very good and unique eppisode. I agree with what everyone else said, but i just have one small thing to add. Was anyone intrigued when christopher and meadow were holding hands in the waiting room? That would be an interesting outcome if those two got together, and statistics show that mob princesses almost always end up marrying mobsters.

You KNOW it had to be a dream.... Tony Soprano dressing like that??? (very preppy in the blue blazer with light pants). Did you ever think you'd see TS wheeling around a piece of luggage? Did you ever really think someone would slap Tony in the face and he'd just yell about someone else stopping the guy?

Why'd they have to show Vito farting on Carmela's couch? :rolleyes:

Chris & Meadow holding hands??? Damn, how did I mis that? Yea that would be a turn of events wouldn't it? I guess that could become an intriguing storyline.

As far as the dream sequence goes, once I knew that Tony getting shot wasn't all a dream, I could buy into the fact that this is what he's "dreaming" while in a coma. A series of events (no wallet, ID, money, etc), basically losing his identity. When the doctor told him he had alzheimers, that was the icing on the cake. I am wondering if he'll wake up a "different" person????

TIS

Hi C.L.

You know what. I didn't even notice how Tony was dressed. But yea, he didn't have his usual Tony Soprano shirt on did he. As far as Vito farting...yea, AJ did that a couple seasons ago. Must be a guy thing.

Didnt see this posted, but when Tony was having his dream, did his wife he was talking to on the phone sound like Gloria Trillo to anyone else? I could have sworn it was her, but Im not sure.

One of the best episodes of The Sopranos that I've seen. This is why this television series is the absolute best today and nothing else comes even remotely close.

I like the fact that we got to see a nice guy version of Tony Soprano and the contrast of the reality of his life and how important and serious of man he is that his severe illness has severe and far reaching consequences. Although I was almost completely sure that it was a dream sequence, the first little bit of the episode threw me for a curve and this drew me into the characters as it always has...It's good to see A.J. develop a bit if only a bit. As with all good art, when someone watches The Sopranos he or she can see that a lot of thought has been put into each episode. As always, can't wait till next Sunday.

AJ really looked like a young Fredo in this episode. (Sorry, always thinking about GF4)

It sounded a bit like Gloria, but as soon as I heard the voice I thought of Charmaine. Remember they were together for a time while Tony and Carmela were broken up. Tony also fantasized about here a few times during season 5.

I was trying to think of who she sounded like. I thought she sounded a bit like Adriana, but I wasn't sure.

Small tidbits that build up a distaste for his character, because eventually he'll be the Judas. I felt nervous seeing him near Tony's room, due to his implications in the last episode. Besides, the series has been known to show everything you might see in real life in human interaction, farts included.

I loved when Carmella played Deep Purple while Tony was on the bed.

The only thing that could've made the episode better would be Radiohead's "How to Disappear Completely" or "Treefingers" playing while Tony's dreaming.

I personally think that it isn't a dream sequence and that Tony is in purgatory. My family since the death of my grandmother has always been wondering about such life after death and Tony I feel is in purgatory. He can't get out of where he is. He has lost his identity. The fires is costa mesa and that commercial all lead me to believe this.

What do you guys think?

You don't know the difference between a dream and real life? I think they made that pretty clear.

I wonder if the whole season will be like this Tony in a coma hovering near death. A.J talking revenge was funny. Uncle Junior in the can telling the agents where to get off was another riot. Either he will remain in jail or be killed for what happened. I still say this guy is faking it all the way. Finn hates dental school, who cares. The woman on the phone in the dream sequence did sound like Gloria Trillo. Next weeks episode looks good but we all know that from the episode trailers from two years ago.

Yes, Barbara. She was in maybe 2 or 3 episodes over the entire run. She was the sister who needed to get away from the mother and that life.

As for AJ, that scene resonated to me that when the chips are down, no matter how stupid the kid is, he's really his father's son.

That Uncle June is great! See what he told the cops? My nephew shot himself, he's mental and seeks mental help, or something like that. The old man is faking it. He knows exactly what he is doing. Crazy like a Fox!

I totally enjoyed the episode. I loved the biazzare messages that were sent by the writers. Tony dreaming that he was living the legitimate life. Yet no matter what, even as hard as he tries, he was destined not to be legit. He was destined to do things the illegal way. Great writing.

Edie Falco, in my eyes, secured an Emmy award for her performance last night. A very underated actress. Spectacular acting by her!


Don Cardi

As I mentioned earlier, I'm so glad that this wasn't all a dream. I don't know if any of Tony's dreams are suppose to have meaning for the story's purpose, but it's interesting to analyze it.

We all have our theories, as far as Tony's life, his idendity, etc. However, for further analysis, what do you think the bright light on the horizon would symbolize? Any connection with the bright lights on the helicopters that were flying overhead???

TIS

The bright lights, to me, have two meanings. At the beginning when he is walking and the helicopters are hovering over his head, and he looks up at them and the bright lights, if you look closely you can see a silouette of a doctor looking down on him with examination lights behind him. That was the first faint hint that Tony was dreaming while being worked on.

The second meaning, IMO, is that the bright lights and the helicopters overhead symbolize that he is facing death and looking up at God. Looking up at heaven.


Don Cardi

Another reference to lights, so to speak, is the news broadcast Tony was watching in the bar, showing the fires in Costa Mesa or Southern CA.

TIS

The fires in that scene represented HELL.


Don Cardi

Well, the worse possible outcome for Tony would be for him to wake a "born again", hanging out in the airports saying "Hare Krishna"(flashback to the 60's). Or worse yet, an extreme "right winger"


TIS

Ahhh, but I believe that scene was written to remind us of this GF son instead:

[Michael returns to the Don's room, at his bedside.]

MICHAEL : Just lie here, Pop. I'll take care of you now. I'm with you now. I'm with you...


That scene told me that no matter how at odds AJ has been with Carmela and Tony, he's really his father's son.

Life is a circle repent. Tony's mom drove his father nuts, and Tony grew up resenting her and becoming like his father. Carmela has driven Tony nuts over the last few seasons, and we see how much AJ resents her and in her own way how she is always all over AJ, driving him nuts too.

AJ is destined to grow up like Tony.


Don Cardi

Ok, so I'm consumed with Sopranos right now.

I was thinking of another theory. The way that this show is written, it can go in any direction.

What if we are being shown this part of the story (which we all think is Tony dreaming or hallucintating) two years into the future? Tony was shot. He survived the shooting and went into the witness protection program hence the new identity. Only subconsciencely he still thinks of himself as Tony Soprano. He's having trouble in his mind with accepting the new life and letting go of the old one.

Just another theory. And not really too far fetched when we're talking about David Chase and The Sopranos.


Don Cardi

Im kind of intrigued by the pergatory theory. In the end when he is sitting near the window and out on the horrizon you can see flashes of the sun, I think that means he is in a place where he is always between night and day. The sun isnt rising, but it isnt really setting either. Interesting.

With regards to AJ's vow of revenge, I think it makes for some very intersting storyline to come, but I really dont buy it. It was very out of character for him to make such a claim, and if he follows through on it, then I wont be a happy viewer.

I think those flashes of light were supposed to be the brush fires burning in Cosa Mesa; perhaps they're symbolic of the fires of hell that Tony fears.

A few random thoughts about last night's show:

1. The family that Tony speaks with on the phone from his hotel room isn't his "real" Soprano family - they're squeaky clean (much like the salesman that Tony is supposed to be mistaken for - Finnerty). The kids are younger, and their only "problems" are about soccer and throwing up - simple everyday things. That isn't Carmela's voice either (and I doubt its Gloria Trillo).

2. I'm still not 100% certain about Uncle Junior being totally insane. He seemed his old cranky self when being questioned by the shrink until his lawyer "coached" him with the reason he was being questioned. It was only at that point that he seemed to go overboard. The whole thing MAY be an act.

3. Vercetti made a good observation - we're slowly being shown a bad side of Vito Spatafore and thats probably leading up to him being shown as a Judas. (Vito is setting up Bobby Bacala for a fight over the crap game that was Junior's and which Vito is trying to gain control of).

4. Funny how the crew is fighting to show who loves Tony the most - Vito brought some food and wanted to drive AJ home - Paulie drove AJ home and wanted to buy Tony a stereo for the hospital room - Christopher actually bought the stereo.

5. Was anyone else secretly glad that AJ got so passionate about taking revenge against Uncle Junior? Its about time he felt passionate about something other than cars or video games.

the questions will be whether or no A.J. actually goes through with his promise. i don't know if he is capable of doing such a thing. i remember an earlier season where tony says that a.j. would never be strong enough for the business...but that meadow would. if he does it, do you guys think he'll be caught and arrested? maybe that leads to tony deciding to rat people out to save a.j. "friends will let you down, but family is always there."

MSN ran this interesting take on last night's episode, speculating much of what we are:

"As if in a sort of twisted, hall-of-mirrors version of Arthur Miller’s “Death of a Salesman,” Tony was reflecting on his own life through the salesman version of himself, imagining an idealized reality just as Willy Loman does."

"he was a salesperson living an apparently flatline sort of life. Arriving at a convention for work, he talked to his wife on the phone, and that woman was a bland, non-Carmela female;"

TIS


The Sopranos

This episode had a lot to do with the opening montage of episode 1. According to HBO.com, the lyrics of the songs played over that montage were from William S. Burroughs' "Seven Souls." The first part of which reads as follows:

"The ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls.

Top soul, and the first to leave at the moment of death, is Ren, the Secret Name. This corresponds to my Director. He directs the film of your life from conception to death. The Secret Name is the title of your film. When you die, that's where Ren came in."

And from wikipedia:

"Ren(name): A person's name (rn in Egyptian) was given to them at birth and would live for as long as that name was spoken, which explains why efforts were made to protect it, placing it in large amounts of writings. For example, part of the Græco-Roman Book of Breathings, a descendant of the Book of the Dead, was for ensuring the survival of the name. A cartouche (magical rope) was often used to surround the name and protect it for eternity. Conversely, the names of deceased enemies of the state, such as Akhenaten, were studiously hacked out of monuments."

In Tony's dream, he loses his wallet, his ID, and eventually, his name. Remember toward the end when he told the doctor his name wasn't Kevin Finnity, the doctor asks what his real name was, and Salesman Tony says something to the effect of, "what does it matter? I'm going to forget soon any way [in regards to the Alzheimer's]."

This could be the departure of Tony's first soul, his "Ren."

Also, if you go back and rewatch that opening montage, you'll see that AJ is shown when Burroughs explains the fifth soul:

"Number five is Ka, the Double, most closely associated with the subject. The Ka, which usually reaches adolescence at the time of bodily death, is the only reliable guide through the Land of the Dead to the Western Lands."

As Tony's only son, you could say that would make him his double and the most closely associated to him. Supporting this theory, at least in my opinion, is that AJ has reached adolescence at the time of Tony being shot (you could say he matured a lot in this episode). He also has the long hair, which resembles Tony's hair when he was that age as seen in the flashbacks from season 5 relating to him and Tony B. Carmela even made mention of how, when Tony was younger, his hair was long enough to "grab hold of."

Also, in this episode, AJ used a "poor you" on Meadow, something Tony has done numerous times over the years (something he obviously got from his mother). Then, if you go back a ways we know that AJ also suffers from the panic attacks that have plagued Tony.

So, if AJ is Tony's "Ka," the question becomes, how can he be "the only reliable guide through the Land of the Dead to the Western Lands" if he doesn't doesn't exist as himself in Salesman Tony's dream world?

Long post, I know, but I think David Chase is really getting at something deeper than just Tony dreaming about what his life could have been. There might have been more connections to the "Seven Souls" in there, but that's what I picked up on the first watching.

Oh, and another thing, the name of the bald Asian doctor that Carmela spoke with: Dr. Ba. From Burroughs' words:

"Number four is Ba, the Heart, often treacherous. This is a hawk's body with your face on it, shrunk down to the size of a fist. Many a hero has been brought down, like Samson, by a perfidious Ba."

Wow. Great observation.

Here's an article that clears up a few things:

http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/sepinwall/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/11428364021 23280.xml&coll=1

Chase says it himself: It's not a dream, it's purgatory (like where Christopher went while in his coma after being shot a while back?).

And, Salesman Tony's wife was just a generic voice, not Gloria or Charmaine.

This one has me puzzled. A stomach shot is one of the most lethal. Remember Lee Harvey? He was shot inthe stomach and was dead within an hour. Even if you do recover, it is slow. So, Tony is in rehab, but still the boss? I'm thinking that without his formidable presence, the stage is set for some internecine "disputes".

hello everyone. its been awhile since ive posted on here so i figure id stop in and see whats up and say hey.

I really like this episode. I was almost in tears twice durring the hole thing. Im hoping so much that Tony comes out of the coma. Cant wait til next week.

Interesting article Capitili! I wondered also about the FBI and Christopher possibly becoming their next informer. However, I can't see Chris turning traitor, at least not at this point. Sounds kind of funny now, but as the author indicates, these things are usually included for a purpose, and we are use to, and enjoy being surprised, so anything is possible. I think this whole incident will bring out a more mature AJ.

TIS

Welcome back Sicilian123

my predictions...somebody is gonna want tony's seat. this is where christopher steps up and trys to run things and possibly...i mean possibly...bring aj into the family. hey, he sounds pretty serious on killin uncle june, maybe its that time where he wants to b just like his dad. or he could possibly get caught doin it....if i heard correctly this is the season where tony wants to become legit. could this b the situation that makes him want to quit? but wait...u dont retire...remember last week? is everyone gonna b pissed? are they gonna go after tony? o god! i cant take it anymore! hurry up sundays!

You know, Chris has to be conflicted. He has this huge allegiance to Tony, but Tony did order the death of A. Also, remember how he and Tony B made fund of Chris at the restaurant. And also remember that Chris seemed ready to leave the life with A until he saw that transient family at the gas station. So, his conversation witht he FBI could be a prelude to a closer relationship with the Feds.

I still can't figure how they're gonna reconstitute Tony in such a short time. Maybe they will fast forward.

yeah i honestly think that agent harris is there for more then just the sandwhiches. something is up his sleeves, and i am also thinking they are trying to get a christopher. they might be hoping he hasn't let go of the ade thing.

I wish David Chase never converted The Sopranos from a Mob Drama to a Soap Opera.

Agreed. I still love this show a whole lot, and its still the best show on television by far, but it has changed a LOT since the first season.

well i'll say this much, with the exception of all of the fourth seaoson...and half of the third...the soparnos is definatly an amazing t.v. show.

first season is the best without saying. and the second follows. but the fifth i think was better the the third and fourth.

I personally think it's gaining more depth as it goes on.

The biggest difference right now between the Soparnos and a Soap Opera, besides the acting, is in a Soap Opera, Tony would be dead shortly because nobody in a hospital ever lives. In the Sopranos, everyone knows Tony is going to live.

1. Season 2
2. Season 1
3. Season 5
4. Season 3
5. Season 4

I think it's pretty unfair to call non-crime plotlines a soap opera. People expect this to be a 24/7 Goodfellas.

You're entitled to your opinion. IMO, they've turned the Sopranos in a Soap Opera.

Yeah, but I don't understand the reasoning of it. The only thing I see is that it shows family drama mixed in with the mafia drama.

I love how Sopranos mixes crime plot lines with non-crime plot lines. Thats what makes it such an amazing show. It would probably be just mediocre if it was a "24/7 Goodfellas." However, I think there should be more crime then non-crime and as of Season 4, that generally has'nt been the case.

Somewhere along the line, the show changed from a story about a crime family with a little family drama thrown in, to a family drama with a little Mob drama thrown in.

I don't know, I really don't have a problem with that. In fact, I love Chase's new direction with the series, especially focusing on Tony more.

Wow...what an episode!!!

IMO the finest work The Sopranos has put out so far. Edie Falco gave a superb performance. Gandolfini, as the sales man guy, was also superb...the smallest detail was thought about...his tone of voice for example was totally different and more socially acceptable than the coloquial manner in which TS speaks. His demeanour was also a lot less threatening and forthcoming, he didn't lose his temper, he bit his tongue with his wife, he was a lot more caring...despite the adultery (i guess all of us men are weak). He only swore ONCE in the episode. Emmys are the TV oscars right? Well Gandolfini and Falco deserve them...NOW.

Re: the rest of the series.

I agree there is a chance that TS remains in the coma for the whole season...and that the Mob side of things is taken up by the power struggle over New jersey. Vito, with NY on his side vs Silvio and the old school of Paulie, Chrissie and Bobby Bacalieri.

We would see Finnerty (who, for all intents and purpose, Gandolfini now is) trying to get home (wake up from the coma) and reach his family (represented as the voices on the phone). I don't necessarily think that TS will ever wake up and make it home. Or indeed, maybe "home" is his death.

AJ will definitely get mixed up above his head i think...and he will be put in his place very rapidly. Finn and Meadow will split...they bicker alot it seems. Finn might get a smack in the mouth from someone maybe. Chrissie is a definite FBI target....little hints are being laid...the first episode Chrissie said "i hope that parasite kills him"...ok so he isnt their friends of course...but the fact the writers have written Chrissie talking about them...and then a convrsation in Episode 2 says to me that SOMETHING is definitely afoot. The mention of Ade is also pivotal. Also...love it..."Oh The Sheriff of Nottingham"...i am at The Uni of Nottingham in England. wooo. hahaha simple things...simple minds.

The two arab guys in the Bing...They will do something to Junior to score points.

The hints are being laid. Bobby vs Vito. The Arab guys in the Bing. Chrissier & the FBI (who must be desparate to flip someone now that Gene and Ray Curto is dead). The "homo" thing with Vito. "I could be boss"...Again Vito.

Whoever calls this a soap opera...well...i dont agree.

Aaaaaaanyway...long post...but whatever....what an amazing show. I cant wait till next week...and i am not even in the usa!

funny moment in the episode the no one has mentioned...the fbi agents questions carmela about tony and jfk's assassination "you serious? my husand was 3 years old!"

Yea that JFK comment was pretty funny.

I can't see Tony staying in the coma though. I think he'll awake next week. I don't know if maybe he'll be different (a new person), or maybe he'll have amnesia. I think most likely he'll be changed, even if temporarily to some degree, feeling a near death experience or something maybe. Or, consider this, when Tony does awake and "if" he is the least bit not "himself", the rest of his crew will consider him incapable of heading the family, causing further unrest within the group.

What I do like about this show however, is with all the guessing & analyzing we've done in the past, the false impressions we've gotten out of previews, and the surpises whackings we've seen, something totally unthought of happens.

TIS

I agree DV. On Monday morning when I go to work, I hear people saying things like " The show sucked last night" and "What the hell was that, where are the killings?"

If we saw killings every week then IMO the show wouldn't be more than a weekly shoot em up, non plot show.

I personally enjoy the depth that the writers inject in the storyline and the sub plots. It makes the viewer have to use their head a little. IMO, after only two episodes, the writing has just been brilliant. This storyline can go a million different ways from here.

Is it Sunday yet?


Don Cardi

Interesting episode and article from the link on the last page.

Purgatory, will he return, can he return. Remember Chris went to the Irish Bar when he flat lined in hospital for a minute. Tony is in a different world unlike his dreams and seems like he going to be there a while.

People he knows are always in his dreams, the only thing he brought with him here is his name, and he may forget that by next week.

A couple of things.

You need a Federal ID to get in. That was said twice. Does it mean anything.

Some of the conversation in the Bar was hard to figure out and understand. Did anyone else experience that and was that the intention.

Only Tony Soprano would find a way to cheat on his wife even in Purgatory.

So far I like this season. This episode makes you really think. It's interesting.

Boy i just checked the message boards on HBO.com and they are lambasting "Join the club". I can't believe how they are ripping it apart. I thought it was fantastic and I went over there to try and find a little insight.

Tough Group.

Btw, if Tony really is in purgatory then I feel real good about my chances of getting into heaven. If someone like Tony doesnt go to hell then I think were all pretty safe.

From what I can tell from the previews, there seems to be alot of internecine struggle in store with Tony near death. Also, I can't figure out the FBI showing up twice now at Satriale's just for the food. I also wonder at what point Dr. Melfi will reappear. Certainly she's heard about Tony getting shot. And what was that scene about with AJ coming into Meadow's room and talking about the environment. Didn't that seem kind of off the wall?

On those forums, all those posters care about is how many people get "whacked" in a single episode. However, here, we are deep, intellectual thinkers, and we enjoy episodes which require a whole level of understanding deep, intricate foreshadowings and whatnot (insert literary term here ).

These two episodes are clearly the best two episodes ever back to back in a season of The Sopranos. Can't wait for Sunday!

I'll disagree with that.

How old is Tony? Actually 46? I wonder because in his induced coma he is hearing the voice of a Meadow that sounds much younger than she is; Carmela's voice also.

Tony, like his alter-ego, Kevin, is 46. Kevin states that when he's talking about his life with the salemen/woman. Tony was three years old when Kennedy was shot (1963), so we know he was born in 1960.

The family's voices on the phone aren't those of Meadow and Carmela.... they're of some imagined family.

Actually Tony's official birth I read is 1959, so it still applies to JFK's assassination.

I'll disagree with that. [/b][/quote]"The Sopranos" and "46 Long"

When Tony rings his family from the bar...before he realises he has lost his wallet and briefcase...the answermachine comes on. "Hi...this is the .........'s"

it isnt soprano they say!!!

anyone catch the name?!

Might this be important?!

No, they do say Soprano. Check it again.

oh my bad.

apologies.

reading the sopranos chat board over on hbo makes me think the majority of the posters are 12. They didn't get their fix of violence and all they can say is "its carp...big crap" or my favourite "Syl is fat..why is he fat?"

I really wonder if Tony will come out of the coma and if he does will he be the same. If this show is paralleling GF remember Vito after the attempted assasination. He never fully recovered. A.J with the long hair reminds me of John Cazale in Dog Day Afternoon.

No SC, the voices on the other end of the phone are Meadow's and Carmela's. As another member posted, the answering machine says Sopranos. Also, Tony asks Meadow about her brother and she says he puked. The voices sound much younger and the conversation indicates he's gone back in time to when everyone was younger. So, that's why I asked about his age.

Someone else posted about his recovery. As I previously posted, a stomach shot is almost always fatal. For Tony to recover, it will take a while meaning that the rest of his mob family should have plenty of time to do whatever it is that they will do. Also, it means that Tony may never be the same and therefore out of the Don business. Vito's recovery in GFI was from non-near fatal wounds.

Paulie had a great line when told AJ: "Van Helsing, let's go."

They're different voices, and IMO they represent different characters.

Finnerty's driver's license lists his date of birth as Feb. 25, 1959. Now, following Vercetti's correction (about Tony's year of birth) if that was supposed to be Tony's birthdate, too, it would have meant that Tony was 4½ years old when JFK was killed, not three as was stated by Carmela. (All websites I have found list the birthyear as 1959, as well).

Regardless, instead of splitting hairs about his exact age, I'm suggesting that Kevin Finnerty is Tony's coma-induced way of showing how is life may have been different (and somewhat boring) including having a different family.

I agree. Every call home has a different voice on the other end.

Just another mention of the incredible acting on display in episode two.

When Tony gets the room as Kevin Finnerty. He is obviously nervous, he is fidgety and his voice is a little croaky...like i said, obviously nervous that he is commiting fraud.

Compare this to the scene in Season 5 episode 11(i think) "The Test Dream" where he is committing a similar fraud at the Plaza. He hands over a credit card for a "Mr. Patraglia". He is in no way nervous...well he is when he sees Melfi walk through...but thats beside the point...and is confident and self assured.

Gandolfini in my oppinion showed his class and versatility in this episode. The scene where he wakes up and splutters out "where am i? where am i going?" is also superbly acted and shot. For me The Sopranos surpasses any other television drama for class of script, acting and direction. The end of this season is going to be truly mindblowing. I, as i know everyone reading must also be, am awaiting it with eager anticipation.

When I heard the female voice on the phone, I didn't think it sounded at all like Carmela, but "assumed" it was. When the young girl spoke, I thought it was a young Meadow. Now, I am wondering about this Kevin Finnerty connection. See, it pays to discuss these things.


Could it be that a "Kevin Finnerty" will show up, or the name will come up in future episodes??? Or maybe Tony will take on the personality of Kevin.

I am expecting him to come out of his coma this week, but we'll see. I am looking forward to it. I too, am one that doesn't have to have a whacking every season, and can get into this kind of storyline. Although, I love those surprise whackings.

TIS

Yeah, surprise whackings are always good.

I think Tony is on the other side. This is not a dream but limbo. He is at a point closer to death and able to really experience purgatory or limbo.

Think about where Tony is.

A traveling businessmen in a dead town away from his young children. He's going no where, can't get home, can't get in the meeting. He can't cheat on his wife because of how he feels for his wife. ( remember the I saw that look comment)
and he is going to forget his identity.

This my friend for a guy like Tony Soprano is Hell on earth.

Also the name Kevin Finnerty.

Kev-Infinnerty = Infinity

This is much deeper then a Dream

I think an old flame has been rekindled and I am hooked again. At least for this week

Yeah, the purgatory thing is a definate possability. But what will his mentality be when he wakes up? Will this make him go to the feds? Or will A.J.'s wanting vengance against Juinor going to get him killed turning Tony to the light side?

The ultimate shocking ending.....Tony wakes up from his coma feeling so guilty and repentent, that he is the next "rat"!!!!! We see him splling his guts to the FBI for clemency!! Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass? They wouldn't dare. :p Ya think?


TIS

If anyone taped the episode last week, watch the previews for episode 3 and hit the pause button when Paulie is shooting his gun. Notice the guy in the background...It looks like Tony holing a gun. His shape looks similar, maybe a bit weak-looking, and a little more pudgy...he is probably wearing a padded thing because of his hole in his stomach. Check it out!

Ok, I finally just saw the episode tonight...I know I'm late!!

So...if there's one thing we all know about the Sopranos is that whatever is shown on the screen means or represents something..

The holding hands of Christoper and Meadow really interested me..I think it has to mean something. Not neccessarily a Godfather III scenario :rolleyes: ....but something. And how about the Ahmed and Mohammed in the bing...will Chris make "a call"?

Great job dissecting the episode guys, I'm so thankful for these boards!

I'm 99% sure that's Vito in the background.

I'm 99% sure that's Vito in the background. [/b][/quote]Looks like we're both wrong. I know it was a stretch, but I took a shot.

Oh well. I would have bet it was Vito.

Okay, from the previews, it looks like Tony is about to get back in the driver's seat. But what about what has gone on among his subordinates and real family while in the coma? Alot of internal strife apparently came to the surface, alot of resentments, self-promotion, etc. I can't wait!

Hey im sure you all will agree with me that episode two and three of this new season was definatly very emtional. i downloaded the moby song from the end of the second season and it brings me chills because it reminds me of tony(kevin) sitting at the edge of his bed feeling hopeless and lost while we see out his window at the darkness with the light at the end of the darkness.

Yea, at first I thought the song was by Annie Lennox. But as you say, it is kind of melancholy and indicates the predicament in which Tony finds himself. But last week's previews indicate that the old Tony is back.

Talk about twisting emotions as if to ring water out of underwear...

Perhaps I've chosen the wrong analogy there, but I broke down when I saw AJ talking to Tony. Then I laughed my arse off when it cut to inside the ward and we actually heard what he was talking about.

A vastly underrated episode, I feel; Chase wrote it, so I knew I was in for a very complex one, and it seems the director, always influenced by Lynch and Twin Peaks, explores the most complex themes of the show in terms of dream and reality.

Edie Falco is the best actress I've ever seen.

Dark humour at its utmost; the dialogue between the made guys at Gino's wake was priceless.

Can't wait for episode 3.