They are going to hell.

Vito:
Mama:
Kay:
Michael:
Sonny:
Fredo:
Connie:
Apollonia:
Don Ciccio:
Hyman Roth:
Frankie Pentangelli:
Vincent:
Mary:
Khartoum:
Woltz:

Do you think they are going to hell? Why, or why not?

Assuming that we can play God and make that judgement:

Vito: Hell for murder
Mama: Purgatory, although she didn't commit any crimes that we know of, she knew of them and didn't tell the authorities.
Kay: Hell for the abortion and the bad jewelry.
Michael: Hell for murder
Sonny: Hell for murder and adultery and numerous crimes.
Fredo: Hell for adultery
Connie: Hell for murder and adultery
Apollonia: Heaven
Don Ciccio: Hell for murder and a bad moustache
Hyman Roth: Hell for stealing, lying, we don't know if murdered anyone directly.
Frankie Pentangelli: Hell for all the things Tom Hagen said they got him on and suicide.
Vincent: Hell for murder and bad taste in women.
Mary: Actors purgatory.
Khartoum: Horse heaven, he never did get to stud
Woltz: The deepest pits of Hell for cavorting with minors. What a pig.

Nope. Michael confessed his sins. His life is saved.

I think only Michael Should go to hell, bicouse vito started the business to protect his family, if he didnt do it they were be livin in the streets, and he revenge his fathers and mother massacre, but michael is ivel, he has no heart, no soul... how could he kill his brother, wich was stupid and weak, how?

i liked michael in the beginning of gf1, but in the end of gf1 and gf2 he was a cruel SOB!

Remember Godfather III?

in gf3 he was aconfused old man who just realised
what stupid things he did in his life!

...and realized what he did wrong in his life, confessed his sins, and therefore, if MC were real, he'd be sittin inside the Pearly gates.

Michael would definately be in heaven. No doubt about it. He's suffered enough in life. Plus, he confessed his sins and truly was sorry for what he had done. I don't see why he shouldn't go to heaven.

I agree with Mary Cas' view. Appollonia did nothing that we saw anyway, to deserve hell!!
And Mary - Incest most likely was her sin.


TIS

Fredo, because he bangs two cocktail waitresses at a time.

GoodFella

Why the hell would Khartoum go to hell?

He stained the sheets.

Because in his last race he bet with his head, not over it.

Vito: Hell. He's a mafia boss. Enough said.
Mama: Heaven. She had nothing to do with the family bissuines. She was just an ordinary wife and mother.
Kay: Heaven. She was the only truly inocent main character.
Michael: Hell. Do I need a reason?
Sonny: Hell. Murder and adultery.
Fredo: Heaven. Was never a main part of the mafia. We all have simpaphy for him....don't we?
Connie: Hell. Became involved with mafia in Part III when she could easily have stayed away.
Apollonia: Heaven. What did she do wrong?
Don Ciccio: Hell. Because he was the bastard who killed Vito's mother.
Hyman Roth: Hell. Murderer. Backstabing bastard.
Frankie Pentangelli: Hell. general mafia conections.
Vincent: Hell. Unnesissary violence.
Mary: Hell. For helping to kill Part III, and for pronouncing Corleone two different ways in the same speach.
Khartoum: That's the horse right? err Heaven.
Woltz: Hell. All producers do is make money. They have the power to bar popcorn crap from our movie screens, but instead they take the easy was out and release films like Tomb Raider, whereas truly great films hardly ever get a look in. And besides, Woltz was an asshole.

Well we got to remember that these guys are Catholics (the irony!). We know Michael eventually confessed, but for all we know, Vito could have confessed to his sins, especially in his old age, after he retired, even if it is somewhat out of his nature to....talk much...at all.
But remember: Mama Corleone went to Church every day to pray for Vito's soul, to "make sure he go uppa there...and not down there...". If someone prayed so much for her husbands soul, would he be redeemed?
Khartoum, oh yeah, he probably went to hell for numerous sex offences, tax evasion, and probably even drug running.
Woltz was a bastard, who exploited his actresses. Room 101!

i think that the best thing those women coulda done was to pray for the souls of their husbands. Its also interesting to say Mama Corleone would be in purgatory for her reluctance to tell authorities about her husbands crimes-now then wouldnt she be a bad wife and disrespectful to her husband by doing something like that? The Holy books always speak of the importance of ones wife to ones husband. so..who knows about that.. then again, i always wondered what Appolonia really thought Michael did for a living. I wonder if she truly knew. And if she did, she still would go to heaven, only considering she was a clean and devoted Catholic and her sins in life did not outweigh the good. Because she was too young, 16 years-old. Kay was the only one in my opinion who saw that what was happening was WRONG. She was the one who had the balls to get herself outta that situation, it took her awhile, but thats because she was being a good wife to Mike. All this talk about Heaven is making me nervous...I must go and think about my future..

Vito: Hell
Mama: Heaven
Micheal: St. Peter would take a minute, but probobly Heaven.
Sonny:Hell
Fredo:Heaven
Connie: Hell (She "made her bones" when she was like sixty)
Kay: Heaven
Appalonia: Heaven
Karhotum:Heaven
Vincent:Hell (First Cousin? Ewwwww)
Pantegili: Hell
Don Cicci: Hell
Woltz: An especialy fiery pit of Hell (grimy little SOB)
Mary: Hell
Hyman Roth: I can't say, I'm not Jewish

I think they should all be in Heaven, sans Woltz. He was a slimey bastard.

Woltz is a slimey bastard, but the others (among whom are murderers, adulterers, et al) are destined for the pearly gates?

I had a lengthy discussion over the weekend with my wife regarding Michael's confession and the fate of his soul. She is very deep into the Catholic religion, philosophically and intellectually. I asked her if she thought Michael would go to heaven after confessing to Cardinal Lamberto (quote above). She didn't think so for two reasons. On one count he might; he confessed but, was he TRULY sorry for his sins? We could assume yes, by his reaction and his later conversation with Connie. BUT, he would still spend lots of time in purgatory. On the second reason; he still condoned the actions of Vincent by omission. He didn't overtly know what Vincents actions were, but he knew the intent of Vincent and made no attempt to change the direction of Vincents actions - killing Lucchesi, Gilday, etc. In a sense he is guilty by being an accomplice. And as Lamberto said, "You will not change."

I don't think Mike was truly sorry, nor did he ever truly change his life. He told the Cardinal himself, "what's the point of confessing, if I don't repent?" Even after this confession, he continued in the ways of a mob boss.

And for bad hairstyles. No number of Hail Marys can make up for that.

I was going to make the point that Michael did confess, but did not repent. You're supposed to be truly sorry and make an effort to be better. But others have made these points so I'll just agree with them.

Go and sin no more!

i know this is a year old foram.

but its a good discussion,new comers could discus this.

Why does Vito go to hell? His business was formed in order to feed and protect his family. He was a very loving man.

thats true. but he could have done it another way,but i know what your saying

He protected the Italian people of New York by killing Fanucci and providing them with things forbidden to them by their government. He does not deserve an eternity in hell.

Khartoum gets eternity in limbo because animals have no souls. That's what the nuns in grammar school told us...

tony b.

I think those nuns are very wrong. (If you belive that. well everybody belives in different stuff so what can you do?) I belive that all animals go to heaven right after death. Also Why would Mama Corleone go to hell?

Vito:Heaven, he was the greatest don, the godfather
Mama:Heaven, she supported the Don throughout.
Kay:Hell for agreeing to marry michael in 2min.
Michael: Heaven, he was the most powerful gangster of his time
Sonny:Hell, bad don
Fredo:Hell, bad don
Connie:Heaven, better late than never
Apollonia:Heaven, what a bombshell she was!
Don Ciccio:Heaven, was a smart gangster till his eyesight became poor.
Hyman Roth:Hell, cunning guy
Frankie Pentangelli: Heaven, remembered his Omerta at the nick of the time and killed himself
Vincent:hell, bad don
Mary:hell, fell in love with her cousin
Khartoum:Heaven, poor horse
Woltz:Hell, @sshole

I don't know I'm not God. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

I think Michael was in hell, on earth, still alive...that must be the worst kind of hell? He was visited daily by demonic dreams of the horrors he had done to his family...killings of people, killing his father's son...He was being punished with sickness. He lived a long life and at his death he did not suffer, he just died. Nurses say when you are a bad person in life, you have a long hard death...but Michael just died sitting in his chair, being lonely and living with the horrible memories of his life.
As for Kay,she had an abortion and for that she goes to hell...she had no soul or taste in clothes.

vito: hell
mike:hell
sonny:hell
kay:havane
fredo:hell
nerl:hell
luca:hell

Kay will go to hell!
She is the most ugly charakter in the film!
She killed the unborn child who had never done any harm to anyone! And it was her own child! Michael, whom she accused of cruelty and murders, wold never think of such a thing! So she is the worst murderer of them all, most cruel and unpardonable! Hateful lousy brute. I regret he didn't kill her.

Amazing how, with all the coldblooded murderers throughout the entire trilogy, including Al Neri (who murdered a police officer to get to Barzini and a callgirl to set up Sen. Geary) and Luca Brasi (who threw a newborn into a furnace [novel] and was prepared to blow out the brains of a bandleader over a contract)...there are several who take on the ridiculous view of JustMe. That Kay is the worst of them all simply because of her abortion.

She did what she felt she had to do. It was a regretable decision...but it freed her from the virtual prison of being a Corleone wife.

And I think it was a damn good bit of drama.

Apple

Mike's life was hell, he repented his sins, his brother's death, the sins he did, everything. Michael would see heaven.

Well, if that is an excuse for murder - they all did what they felt they had to do . Al felt he had to kill Barsini's bodyguards (I'm not sure there was a policeman among them) because it freed him from their presence and enabled him to kill Barsini. He had to kill the girl to set up geary. Vito was ready to blow out the brains of a bandleader, because it freed his godson from contract. And murdered Fanucci because it freed him from paying money.
But none of them killed their own children only because they were obliged to sit several months at home for their own safety, or just got sick of their married life with the person they chose with their eyes open.
As to Brasi - here i must agree with you, he did the same. He killed his child because of the hatred he felt to it's mother. I didn't think about him because i thought about movie. Yes, their deeds are equally monstrous, and they will go to hell together.
I wonder, what right might she have to preach morals to Mike after what she did? And she could have no reason to accuse him of Mary's death, it was obviously an accident, but even if he would cut Mary's throat deliberately, she couldn't complaint, they would only be "quits" - as Vito used to say...

Get off your high-horse, JustMe...I'm just tired of this mantra about Kay. It's lame; always has been long before you came along to the Boards.

And she most certainly DID have reason to blame him for Mary's death. She may have blamed herself as well, for ever having brought children into that kind of world.

Apple

well first let me say how disgusted i am with some of you women going on about how kay is going to hell for abortion. i wonder if it's because of your religious beliefs, or your personal beliefs? i am catholic and i do believe that it is a woman's choice whether or not she wants to have a baby. i don't exactly agree with a married woman having an abortion, but nonetheless it was her choice. don't get me wrong, she's a bitch for doing it. but it's her body. let's take aways some of your rights to vote and see if you like that. take away your rights to wear any type of clothing you want and see how you fee. kay won't go to hell, she'll go to heaven along with mike. they both realise they made mistakes. and for true catholics who know that, it's never too late. mike could have been truly sorry the last second he was alive and it was enough for him to be forgiven. after all is that not why jesus came to earth? forgiveness of our sins, no matter how terrible. i dont' mean to preach or anything. and vito? well he did not believe hew as doing something wrong, if anything purgatory. he was truly protecting his family, and those around him. fredo was to innocent of a soul, he did bad things, but only because he was stupid. god does not punish stupid people. sonny is going to hell, because he truly did not care about anyone's life, other then those around him. and don't confuse that with what i said about the don...vito would protect anyone who came to him, unlike sonny. mama was a good wife and therefore is rewarded in the afterlife. the same with appolonia, and kartoum. but hyman roth is going to hell, so is don ciccio, and frankie(suicide is a big no no to god, lol, cause you can't repent). and i think im done with my preaching. now let's all kneele and say the lords prayer.

Aren't we forgetting Clemenza in this topic? I really liked his character in the films, but that guy is without a doubt going to hell. He may have been a loyal friend to Vito and the Corleones, but he's one of those guys (like Solozzo) who defines the term "Gangster". Clemenza, like Luca Brasi and Al Neri, could kill anyone in cold blood without thinking twice about it.

This topic is a really good one. I have often contemplated the thought of where these characters would be after they die, but I never actually got around to posting about it.

You're comment makes no sense. We are discussing Heaven and Hell which are religious beliefs and then you question why people think it is wrong as a religious or personal belief. Kay was a Christian in the movie (converted to Catholicism in the book) and therefore according to her religious beliefs unless she asks for forgiveness she will be going to hell. Just like some fo the guys. What makes you so disgusted about everyone elses opinions? The questions you pointed out are mute b/c they don't validate her situation just as Michaels tough life doesn't validate him killing his brother.

well if you ask a catholic female if she thinks a woman who has an abortion is going to hell and she'll say no. im just shocked that some of the girls in here would condemn her to hell.

Apple! I don't see any horse here, high or low, except the poor Khartoom.
If someone had said that she is a - well - what she really is before my coming to the boards, i'm glad. I wouldn't come if i wasn't sure there are many clever and interesting people here. And i can't find why are you getting mad. After all, there was nothing personal! (C)
That's a very fine reasoning - to compare the life of a human being with a cloth we wear! I only hope (for your soul )that you don't really mean that. It's not just her body or right to vote, if so - then we can chose not to have anybody alive, if we just - "don't want". Mike didn'd want to have a brother like Fredo - why don't you say then that he had a right to kill his brother, it was his choice, his vote?
And don't be disgusted so much - it's too strong an emotion for internet Take care of your health. I'm pleased, in my turn, with your having so wery independent opinions, different from mine - and that of church...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JustMe:
[QB] ...i can't find why are you getting mad. After all, there was nothing personal! (C)
[QUOTE]

Actually JustMe...from your initial rant about Kay it was YOU who appeared to be pretty mad at a fictional character from a movie adapted from a work of fiction:

Originally posted by JustMe:
Kay will go to hell!
She is the most ugly charakter in the film!
She killed the unborn child who had never done any harm to anyone! And it was her own child! Michael, whom she accused of cruelty and murders, wold never think of such a thing! So she is the worst murderer of them all, most cruel and unpardonable! Hateful lousy brute. I regret he didn't kill her.

Not too difficult to determine which of us is more !!

Best,
AppleOnYa

Why don't you ever think about Tom Hagen ? Is he going to Hell ?

No, Tom can never go to hell...his son is a priest.

If he was already dead and in hell prior to his son being ordained, then that was his ticket out.



Apple

You mean if my son is a priest, I am going to heaven too ? What about grandson ?

Sure...if you are a character in a work of fiction, you are played to near perfection by one R. Duvall, whose contribution is severly understimated, then written off for dead in second sequel in which your absense is perpetually lamented even 10 years layer...and your offspring happens to have chosen to do the Lord's work...then by GOD, you're going to HEAVEN!!

If you're just a regular guy who asks whacky questions on a Gangster BB Board while leading a life of crime...then I don't think relatives in the priesthood would be of much help.

But hey, I could be wrong...let us know when you get to the other side.

Apple

I meant that there was nothing personal against your praise of this character in my post. Against yourself. As for her - i really hate - not the fictional character only, but that arrogant fashion to think herself a judge,to decide
whether her son will live or she will kill him, just because of her convinience. That is not a fictional problem. But i am not in the smallest degree "disgusted" about your different opinion. I almost envy you: her presence on the screen does not spoil content you feel wiewing our favorite movie!

You said something extraordinarily

Brasi is defintley going to hell has he killed the horse in GF1

Guys, after what Apple wrote I thought it over, and I think that all members of the family will go to heaven. Andrew Hagen will pray for them all his life - so it's inevitable.

Yeah we all hope so

I think Mary would be first in line for hell because of unforgivably bad acting.

She'll have to compete with Tony...

ALL the characters, from what we are told, ARE GOING TO HELL, except for the baby that Kay aborted (murdered). NO ONE claimed Christ as their savior.

John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

All of the Corleones will be in heaven cause GOD is the ULTIMATE GODFATHER and HE will understand the situation

the horse and those who did not show friendship to the "family" will all be in hell

Im ganna sleep alot better now