Posted By: Turnbull
Tom's "family"? - 08/07/23 03:30 AM
The movies and the novel tell us that Sonny found Tom, as a child, wandering in the streets. He brought Tom home. He was raised in the Corleone home, and Vito treated him like a son, Sonny like a brother. Michael introduced him to Kay as “My brother, Tom Hagen.”
But, was he really “family” to the Corleones?
--Ever notice that Tom never calls Vito “Pop,” as did Sonny and Michael; or “Papa,” as did Fredo, or “Dad,” or “Father.” Nor did he call him “Godfather,” “Don Vito” or “Don Corleone.” In fact, Tom never calls Vito anything—he uses no form of address to the man who supposedly treated him as a son.
--When talking to Sonny, Fredo and Michael—his “brothers"—Tom always refers to Vito as “your father,” not “Pop.” “Your father wouldn’t want to hear this,” he tells Sonny after the shooting, when he wants to launch an all-out war. “They shot my father,” Sonny replies.” Tom tells Sonny, “If your father dies, you make the deal [with Solozzo], Sonny.” He replies: “It’s easy for you to say, he’s not your father.” “I’m as much a son to him as you or Michael.” Says Tom. Sonny just shrugs.
--In the flashback scene at the end of II, after Michael reveals that he’s joined the Marines, Tom says, “Your father and I have discussed your future many times.” Michael gives him the Dreaded Corleone Stare and intones, slowly: “You talked to my father…about my future…?”
--After the Tahoe shooting, Michael, setting up Tom to take over while he goes to Miami, NYC and Havana, says, “You’re my brother, Tom.” Tom practically breaks down in tears: “I always wanted to thought of as a brother by you, Mikey -- a real brother,” which to my ear sounds like Tom never thought Michael regarded him as a brother.
What’s going on here? What do you think?
?
Posted By: mustachepete
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/07/23 02:58 PM
It's certainly meaningful, and it runs back into the novel. As I mentioned in a comment on that board, when he's first introduced in the novel he's called "Thomas Hagen." Thereafter in the book and movie he's called "Tom" or "Tom Hagen," never Tommy or Tommaso. And the full name "Tom Hagen" is used in situations where it seems unnecessary, like when he's in the room and everyone there knows him. There's at least one instance where Puzo calls him "Tom Hagen" in three consecutive sentences. My thought is that Puzo, at least, was trying to present as something of a mechanical man, a robot that served Vito but wasn't a fully functioning person.
Posted By: Gudfadern
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/07/23 05:00 PM
Also from the flashback Tom says; "Pop had to pull a lot of strings to get your deferment".
Posted By: Lana
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/09/23 04:04 AM
Did
Sonny regard Tom as a
real brother?
really “family”?
Extracts: Sonny: “They shot my father,” “It’s easy for you [Tom] to say, he’s not your father.”
Well you just do what I tell you to do! Goddamn it!
If I had a wartime consiglieri -- a Sicilian -- I wouldn't be in this shape! Pop had Genco -- look what I got
(then, after exhaling)
I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. Ma made a little dinner -- it's Sunday....
Vito didn't take
consiglieri Tom into his confidence and kept Tom totally in the dark about the Baptism massacre
Again, Tom was not really “family” to the Corleones? or ?!!
Vito: Michael has all my confidence as -- as you do But uh -- there are reasons why you must have no part in what is going to happen
Michael: Yeah -- there's a lot I can't tell you -- but it's -- it's because I admire you and I love you that I kept things secret from you
Normal procedure, Barzini's
consiglieri would approach Michael's
consiglieri that “Barzini wants to arrange a meeting. He says we can straighten any of our problems out....”
Vito: Now listen -- whoever comes to you with this Barzini meeting -- he's the traitor. Don't forget that
If
Tom had been approached and Tom not a wartime
consiglieri -- believing it was a genuine offer! and took it to Michael -
- Then what happens?!
- why didn't Barzini get his consiglieri to approach Michael's consiglieri
- also Barzini had been chiselling Corleone territories and suddenly this Barzini meeting --
If Barzini had been smart! and gone through their respective
consiglieris could have thrown everyone off and may have been All over Red rover! for Michael. Barzini now the Top Mafia Don
Posted By: Capri
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/12/23 08:37 AM
he was not really “family”
If Tom had been approached and Tom not a wartime consiglieri -- believing it was a genuine offer! and took it to Michael - Job for Neri
If Barzini had been smart! and gone through their respective consiglieris could have thrown everyone off and may have been All over Red rover! for Michael. Barzini was slippin'
Posted By: Turnbull
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/13/23 05:27 AM
My thought is that Puzo, at least, was trying to present as something of a mechanical man, a robot that served Vito but wasn't a fully functioning person.
I came to somewhat the same conclusion in a thread I started in the "Novel" board a long time ago, Pete:
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=900431&Searchpage=1&Main=35815&Words=%2BDid+%2BTom&Search=true#Post900431
Also from the flashback Tom says; "Pop had to pull a lot of strings to get your deferment".
Good catch, Gud! Perhaps Puzo and FFC, taking pity on Tom, threw him one "family intimacy" for the last time we see him in the Trilogy.
Posted By: dixiemafia
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/14/23 12:09 AM
I thought Tom said Pop at least once, thanks Gud
Posted By: Evita
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/15/23 01:12 AM
I reckon Tom always knew he was not regarded as a
real son, a
real brother,
really “family” he is not Corleone blood
Carlo, a Sicilian marries into it -- treated like an outcast!
If Tom had been approached and Tom not a wartime consiglieri -- believing it was a genuine offer! and took it to Michael - Then what happens?!
He knew this Barzini meeting was coming. He said he thought it would've been Clemenza, not Tessio...
How he knew when he was out and was kept totally in the dark!
He was not present at the new Don Corleone hand kissing, by Clemenza and Rocco.
Interesting Neri didn't kiss Just shut the door in Kay's face
Also from the flashback Tom says; "Pop had to pull a lot of strings to get your deferment".
True Then goes on "your father has big plans for you."
Posted By: Lana
Re: Tom's "family"? - 08/20/23 04:05 AM
You are right!
"He knew this Barzini meeting was coming. He said he thought it would've been Clemenza, not Tessio..."
Tom's sixth sense!
How he knew when he was out and was kept totally in the dark!
Vito and all his sons, visited the dying
consiglieri Genco, he is not gonna last out the night
Vito's all his sons included Fontane but
not Tom