Pentangeli Meeting with Rosarto Brothers.

Sticking with the Pentangeli meeting with the Rosarto Brothers. Its my understanding that Pentangeli took over Clemenza's spot upon his demise (that was no heart attack). I would think that for a person to be elevated like that. They should be well experienced in the "life". With this being said. Why did Pentangeli tell his body guard Willie Cici to wait outside? He knew that the Rosarto brothers were bitter rivals. What caused this lapse of security? Especially with the meeting beginning with him be insulted with the C note?

Two reasons:
--He was being macho--trying to prove to the Rosatos that he wasn't afraid of them. And, they said to him, "I got nobody inside," which might have made Frankie look weak if he brought Cicci inside with him.
--It helped FFC set up the garotting scene--if Cicci were inside, they'd have had to kill him, too, which would have taken the focus away from Frankie and the cop coming in at the last second.

I agree with everything you stated. It definitely was necessary for him to go in the bar alone to maintain the storyline. Just seemed out of character for the head of family. You never saw Mike without Neri being close by.

A little off the subject, but I don't understand why Profaci wasn't able to take out Gallo after Gallo kidnapped some of Profaci's people (Profaci did manage to murder several of Gallo's crew and almost his brother). However, I guess it's not that easy sometimes. For example, Costello didn't take out Genovese and Castellano didn't take out Gotti (although he was able to take out DeMeo).

The two times, Neri was not close by Mike, dire consequences Dreadful indeed

1. 'abortion' Hotel Washington – Michael lost his wife [Rocco was no Neri]
2. Opera, Sicily – Michael's daughter got killed [Vincent was no Neri]

Clemenza promising the Rosato brothers three territories in the Bronx after he died, is a mystery and was rightly disputed by PentangeliWhy would Clemenza make such a promise? What did Clemenza owe the Rosatos?
Besides these territories are not his? as they would be owned by the Corleones yet Michael didn't seem fazed

Whilst I am sort of trying to understand! the Rosatos' C-note insult to Pentangeli, perhaps rubbing Pentangeli laying down to them, in his face, I am somewhat puzzled now as to why the Rosatos tried to kill Pentangeli?

Ola asked Fredo during his late night phone callThis doesn't sound like Roth / Ola instructed the Rosatos to kill Pentangeli?

Three territories promise is so confusing
Pentangeli I weltched? Michael they feel cheated Cicci No - No, that was no heart attack.

I too reckon Roth didn't order Pentangeli's murder also it looks bad for him that his partner tried to kill Michael's partner when he went to make the deal, at his request

What was Roth's connection from Miami with the Rosatos in New York?
He always kept a low profile and got away with it 300 million of it before shooting up the Don's bedroom

if Rosatos need to bring their boys So after Michael died in Havana, no muscle and Roth take back what Michael took and their business

I've posted many times that Michael was slippin' because he didn't suspect Roth's motives: Why would Roth, who lived in Miami and had business interests in Havana and Nevada, interest himself in a two-bit beef over three territories in the Bronx?

No, Roth didn't order the Rosatos to kill Pentangeli--he didn't have to. The key is the phone call Johnny Ola made to Fredo: "We [emphasis added] need some more information. Is Pentangeli coming alone [to the meeting with the Rosatos] or is he gonna bring his boys?' I'm guessing that, after Michael visited him in Miami, Roth contacted the Rosatos and told them, "Michael Corleone still supports me, and our deal. He's meeting me in Havana very soon. By the way, the last thing he said to me was, 'Frank Pentangeli is a dead man.'" That would have been taken by the Rosatos as a green light to whack Pentangeli while Michael was away and couldn't do anything about it.

No doubt Michael was slippin' blinded by Greed and taken in by Roth's promise as his successor even after Pentangeli's warning

I agree the late night phone call doesn't sound like Roth / Ola instructed the Rosatos to kill Pentangeli and as posted I too reckon Roth didn't order Pentangeli's murder

If the Roatos acted on their own to whack the caporegime of the top Mafia Don which wouldn't sit kindly with any Don
also it looks bad for Roth that his partner tried to kill Michael's partner when he went to make the deal, at his request

I can't see Roth telling them that he was going to whack Michael in Havana and Michael still had his own men and there was plenty he could do to avenge the murder

The questions still lingering
1. Why would Clemenza make such a promise? What did Clemenza owe the Rosatos?
2. How can he promise these territories that are not his?
3. Why even slippin' Michael didn't seem fazed

If, as I'm guessing, Roth told the Rosatos that Michael said, "Frank Pentangeli is a dead man," they'd regard that as a license to kill Pentangeli without regret from Michael. Since Michael sided with them on the Bronx territories, they'd see killing Pentangeli as logical and permissible.


Roth wouldn't need to tip his hand to the Rosatos--Havana had nothing to do with them. All they needed to know was that Michael said Pentangeli was a dead man, and that he'd be away from the US when they planned to whack Pentangeli.


Doesn't matter to the storyline. ,

How do you know they weren't his (Clemenza's and later, Pentangeli's)?

Do you mean, why didn't Michael seem fazed in Havana when he asked Roth, "Who had Frank Pentangeli killed?" If so: I believe that Michael regarded Pentangli as expendable. When he dispatched him to "settle these problems with the Rosato brothers," he was asking Frankie to put his head in the lion's mouth. If Frankie survived and settled the problems, so much the better for Michael--one less issue to trouble him. If Frankie was killed, more affirmation of Roth's perfidy. But, by the time of that scene in Roth's hotel room, Michael had already determined that Roth was a dead man.

I doubt Michael siding with the Rosatos / Roth, on the Bronx territories, can be regarded as a licence to kill Pentangeli

I can't see the connection as to how Michael siding with the Rosatos, on those three territories, makes outsiders Rosatos “see killing Pentangeli as logical and permissible"

Besides it is up to the Corleones to make Pentangeli 'answer' not small potatoes Rosatos

• Clemenza's promise

Whilst the why and how, Clemenza promised the three Bronx territories to the Rosatos after he died! “Doesn't matter to the storyline” as quite a few of our other speculative theories! it does remain an unsolved mystery!

My understanding these territories are not Clemenza's? or Pentangeli's? per se they would be owned by the Corleones under the Corleone Family and Caporegimes must run it like a Corleone
Yet Michael didn't seem fazed losing three territories, on dead Clemenza's promise....

Pentangeli, Michael's muscle, was too valuable to Michael and I believe that Michael wouldn't “regard Pentangeli as expendable”
My take, Michael didn't need any “more affirmation of Roth's perfidy”

Michael and Pentangeli's conversation

If Michael perhaps expected the Lion maybe to maul! Pentangeli but not kill him

I believe Roth was not a greedy man but of course if the Corleones' business fell into Roth's lap, Roth will take it Bonus!

aw-shucks! There goes all that drama, split second timing of the cop's arrival....Pentangeli half dead, scared stiff and calling out loud that Michael turned on him

After all the debating and how Roth played this one beautifully, it explains their surprised, panicked reaction

Tom's Roth engineered it makes no sense now

True Lana That's why I reckon Roth was so angry because it reflects poorly on him and then his soliloquy

Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
"Michael Corleone says Hello" is not quite "Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli" yet left in....