Coppola Denies Orange Symbolism

Probably been discussed here. I apologize if so.

Just watched a documentary on Reelz network called The Godfather Legacy. In it, Francis Ford Coppola denies any orange symbolism in The Godfather, saying an orange being present in multiple death scenes was merely coincidence.

I think he's lying. What do you guys think?

Doc airs again on Reelz, Sunday, 11am pacific.

One of the things that makes the GF Trilogy great is Coppola's fanatical attention to even the smallest details. There is no way those oranges appeared accidentally or coincidentally.

I agree with you Turnbull. It happened too often throughout the film for it to be coincidental. I have no proof and this is just speculation but I wonder if he was paying homage to the original Scarface where an X appeared somewhere on screen before someone got killed.

https://www.nytimes.com/1971/08/15/...t-of-a-home-movie-the-making-of-the.html

great article about filming the scene where Vito got shot. A couple of Mafia men were on the set but they weren't too impressed with Coppola's fanatical attention to detail. Here is a snippet.

Back on Mott Street, two Mafiosi assigned to observe the movie production were unaware of his arrival. For hours, they had been watching Brando getting shot. They had had innumerable cups of coffee and had adjusted their open-throat, hand-ironed shirts so often that their collars had begun to wilt. Neither of them had been impressed when they heard Brando was to play the godfather, so they watched his performance critically. They volunteered to grips, cameramen and extras that they would have preferred Ernest Borgnine or Anthony Quinn.

''A man of that stature,'' one of them said, pointing to Brando, ''would never wear a hat like that. They never pinched them in the front like that. Italian block, that's the way they wore them, Italian block.''

They did not like Brando's wearing his belt below his trouser loops either.

''He makes the old man look like an iceman. That's not right. A man like that had style. He should have a diamond belt buckle. They hall had diamond belt buckles. And a diamond ring and tie clasp. Those old bosses loved diamonds. They all wore them. Brando makes the guy look like an iceman.''

Check it out. Interesting read.

Coppola will just never admit it, like a magician never gives up their tricks.

Perhaps happy coincidences!

The Anniversary You Can’t Refuse: 40 Things You Didn’t Know About The Godfather
TIME has compiled the most interesting stories, anecdotes and tidbits from the film's production

What’s with All the Oranges?
by Gilbert Cruz @gilbertcruz March 14, 2012

Though some have interpreted the presence of oranges in various scenes as a harbinger of death to come (see the oranges that roll across the street as Don Corleone gets shot, the ones in producer Jack Woltz’s dining room, the ones at the meeting of the dons and those in Don Corleone’s garden), the reason for their presence is likely a more practical one.

In his book on the making of the film, The Godfather Legacy, Harlen Lebo writes, “For [production designer] Dean Tavoularis, oranges were simply another carefully chosen compliment to otherwise somberly dressed sets.

‘We knew this film wasn’t going to be about bright colors, and oranges make a nice contrast,’ said Tavoularis. ‘I don’t remember anybody saying, Hey, I like oranges as a symbolic message“

Sure, that's what lower-level Mob guys would think the Don should look like--if they were the Don. But, as others have pointed out, Vito deliberately kept up a low-key appearance in everything--including his way of dressing--the better to avoid attracting attention. It was part of his strategy to make people (especially enemies and potential enemies) underestimate him.

In the real Mob world, Carlo Gambino dressed and lived very modestly (recall the widely used photo of him being arrested with a hat with the brim turned up). He may have been the most successful Don of his era. Look where dressing fancy got John Gotti and Charlie Luciano.

According to Gianni Russo (Carlo in The Godfather) in the Godfather Legacy documentary, Vito is mostly based on Carlo Gambino. His control over judges and politicians is based on Frank Costello, and having an olive oil company is based on Joe Profaci.

Of course Coppola lies. For how long now has he been telling us he didn't have anything to do with GF III?

Yes. And, wanting his son to succeed him was based on Joe Bonanno.

Puzo put all those Dons in Vito's character. I think he was most like Costello, who was called "The Prime Minister of the Underworld" because of his gambling-based position and his political clout. He also eschewed drugs, as did Vito.

I don't blame him for not wanting credit for that.

Every couple of years I'll try again. Thinking maybe I missed something. Maybe I'm not watching for the right story lines or characters. It's just labor getting through that thing.

Yes, his lecture to Solozzo about politicians and judges turning on them if they got into drugs was right up Costello's alley, and this was the line of his that would ultimately lead to his demise as an influential boss.

Good point about Bonanno. Puzo definitely works the Sicilian monarchy angle into his writing. It's evident in The Last Don, too. I think it borders on fascination and deviates from reality, as the mob has pretty much been an enterprise since the commission was formed, but it makes for great story telling no less.

I think Carmine Lupertazzi Jr. on the Sopranos was based on Bill Bonanno, too. I think his war with John Sack was partly based on Bill's war with the other faction of the Bonannos. Especially how it ends. Carmine realizing he's just not cut out for it when bodies start dropping, then goes mostly legitimate, getting into entertainment.

Is anyone aware of when Puzo set pen to paper to compose his novel? I assume it was post 1963 after Valachi used the term Godfather in his Senate testimony.

As some have stated, Vito was a composite of sorts of several high profile Mafia Dons. However, overall, I believe that Vito was based mostly on Joe Bonanno/Profaci. As we sometimes do on this Board, we mix references from the novel and the film. So will I.

Vito brought Michael into the business as Joe brought Bill into the business; Joe strongly allied himself with Profaci, thus bringing the olive oil business into the mix. Despite Gambino's children, it was Bill's marriage to Profaci's daughter that was the basis for Connie's wedding. Magliocco, succeeding Profaci, moved against some of the Dons thus parallelling Sonny's tried and failed (in the novel) move against the families. Vito took over Maranzalla's empire just as Bonanno took over Maranzano's. The attempted Troutman Street ambush of Bill Bonanno parallel's the attempted ambush of Michael by Barzini. Gaspar DiGregorio's betrayal of Bonanno parallels Tessio's betrayal of Vito.

In any case, that's my analysis.

Thanks, Olivant. I agree the basis was probably mostly Bonanno, with some aspects of Costello, Gambino, and the "Americanized", business minded faction that typically put profits over Sicilian tradition. Someone here once said Puzo covered the Bonanno family for a NY paper. Don't remember who. I tried looking this up and couldn't find anything on it, although that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It can be difficult finding old, obscure newspaper articles. Puzo really has a zeal for the Sicilian faction of the American mob. You get the feel he wanted it to work that way. Maybe for a period of time for the Bonannos, it did.

Oli, according to Harlan Lebo, Puzo started writing the novel in the late '60s, so he certainly had "the Banana Wars" in mind. I think the strongest link to Bonanno was Vito's trying to bring his sons into the business as possible successors. I don't believe any of Bonano's contemporaries were trying to do that. But, Profaci, not Bonanno, was the olive oil (and tomato paste) king; Bonanno's biggest legit business was a cheese factory in Wisconsin. Bonanno's marriage to Rosalie Profaci was a cementing of dynasties; Carlo brought nothing to the marriage bed except his own mediocrity. The Bonanno/Profaci Royal Wedding was held at NY's Waldorf Astoria; Connie's wedding was held in Vito's compound. And, Charlie Luciano was the model for killing "Maranzalla" in the novel.

I am playing catch up. Philly's past Mob Boss Angelo Bruno was as low profile as you can get. Dressed very low key. Lived in a rowhome in South Philly. Got assassinated while sitting in his Chevy.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/03/11/philadelphia-mob-boss-home