Vito's wish for Michael

"I never wanted this for you, Michael...Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone..." I believe that Vito probably didn't want Michael to become the Don of the Corleone Family as it was under him. He didn't want Michael as another Vito. But, what did he want Michael to be and do as a senator or governor? A fighter for good government and clean elections? The legitimizer of the Corleone name, i.e., the anti-Vito? Or something more sinister? Your views?

It seamed to me, to be heart felt, of an old Man wanting the best for his favorite child.

So, I would say a clean solid Politician who would by being such, clean and polish the Family name.

TB, as I've opined elsewhere, I think that Vito's view of life was radically different from that of most people. Regardless of the reason(s) why, there was a component of that view that incorporated murder as an infrequent but totally acceptable strategy. What struck me (in the novel) was his apparent loathing of America. I think he looked at America as simply a tree from which he could pick fruit.

No, he apparently didn't want Michael to enter the family business IN THE WAY HE AND SONNY AND FREDO DID AND WERE EXPECTED TO (emphasis added). However, he did want Michael to enter it as an adjunct, someone who as Senator Corleone or Governor Corleone could aid and abet the Corleone's nefarious enterprise. Vito's and Michael's view of legitimacy was to earn respect from the community; it was not to leave murder and mayhem behind.

Remember what Michael said to his son before he left for Florida: "Someday you will [help me]". Those words were frightening. As GF II and III played out, Michael just could not let go and he had to be forced to let Tony go.

No question that Vito saw politics as a more legitimate form of crime. The power and influence that Mike would have wielded was the brass ring for the Corleones. I'm only speculating here, but maybe on a deeper level, Vito wanted some redemption (in his own mind) of his legacy. One son is a hot headed, psychotic leg breaker,and the other a dim-witted weakling. How nice to be able to reflect back on his life and take some solace in the fact that at least one son was the one "holding the strings".

Look at Vito's background. His family is killed by a Mafia don. He loses his job to Don Fanucci's nephew. He becomes powerful through murder and earns "respect" by protecting the disenfranchised in his neighborhood. His whole life is defined by violence, fear and power.

I think what he wants is for Michael and his descendants to not live in that environment. To have the ability to change things to the point where they can pull the strings so that the Don Fanuccis and Don Ciccis of the world are put out of business.

In short, I think Vito was a criminal (or deluded himself into justifying his crimes) because he had no other way to get ahead.

I don't think Vito meant for Senator Corleone or Governor Corleone to explicitly assist in the Family's criminal activities but rather to get the pezzonovante out of the way so people can live their lives and run their businesses without interference, fear or violence.

Woltz, I rarely disagree with you, but I heartily disagree with you about this.

Regardless of how one comes to be a murderous criminal, Vito was one lock, stock, and barrel. Just as Michael could a generation later, Vito could have abandoned his criminal exploits at any time. He told Michael that he knew that Sonny was going to have to go through all of this and, without much confidence in Fredo's abilities, Fredo would also. Why would they have to go through it unless Vito intended to perpetuate his criminal enterprise through the generations? Although he states that he never wanted that for Michael, his intention to have Michael hold the strings was Vito's admitting that Michael would be the other half of the criminal enterprise equation.

I find nothing to support any contention that Vito was a reluctant criminal who's only intention was to rid the world of the Fanuccis and Ciccis.

Good answers, all.
Sure, Vito would take paternal pride in Senator or Governor Corleone, and it might take some of the tarnish off of him (although, as Oli said, Vito didn't seem to care much about America or American values). But, I've always believed that Vito would want Governor Corleone or Senator Corleone to work for legalizing gambling in New York or the US as a whole, which would vastly expand and legitimize the Corleones' dominance in illegal gambling. Of course, illegal gambling would continue, as it does today in states that have casinos and offtrack betting. Sonny would be the head of an ever-decreasing "olive oil business" and provide muscle for Michael when needed. This would set up resentment/rivalrly between the brothers--an interesting situation for a new GF movie or book.

Look what happens to the James wood character in once upon a time in America. If he had the Corleone power in the illegitimate world as Michael did, he wouldn't end up in the back of the garbage truck.

I have a question, don't know if its ever been asked before.

What is everyone opinion on what Vitos' reaction would be to Mike killing Freddie ???????

The novel states that Vito could not bring himself to murder his son in law. I think that Fredo's murder would have put Vito in his grave. He would have been beyond grief not only for Fredo, but for the way Michael turned out.

To add to what Oli said, I think that Vito considered himself responsible for his family. If Fredo messed up, then Vito would see himself as responsible for giving Fredo responsibilities he couldn't handle.

Also, in II, Michael says to Neri, "I don't want anything to happen to him [Fredo] as long as my mother is alive." The same would apply if Vito were alive.

Another flaw in the story. Was Papa C. so delusional as to think that the crime record of him and his family would allow Michael to become a U.S. Senator.What would you do if you were opposing him in an election ? Maybe Mr. C. was hoping that Mike could get his brother frodo a job in the Post Office.

I agree with this. Despite Vito's contempt for politicians, he still believed in the institution of government, and the power that comes with it, and saw that as something to aspire to.

Good point but Michael was pretty much estranged from his family since joining the military and not involved with the family business at all. Being a military guy would have gone a long way to making him appear legit, but it would have been an uphill battle for him for sure.

I don't believe a political career for Michael in the postwar era would be as far fetched as you might think. Michael could have run for Congress by establishing residency in Vito's old Little Italy neighborhood, where the Corleone name was still magic. His status as a war hero would have helped him immeasurably. Winning a statewide office (Governor or Senator) would have been more difficult, but by then, he'd have established a solid record in the House of Representatives. And, his father's money, combined with his political influence and the fear factor, might have weakened or even intimidated his opponents. JFK's father, Joseph P. Kennedy, had a bad reputation as a stock manipulator and pro-Nazi, and it didn't seriously hinder JFK's path to the House, Senate and Presidency.

Excellent scenario TB. Even after the murder of Sollozzo, the execution of the Bocchiccio for that murder as well as Vito's political machinations would have greatly enhanced the chance of Michael's election.

Vito never wanted this for Michael yet Vito coached Michael to be the Don

Vito planned all the dirty work, killing of Carlo Rizzi and Moe Greene, the baptism murders for Michael to carry out after Vito's death thus leaving a murderous legacy for Michael

Vito could have handed the family business to Clemenza & Tessio and let Michael try to start a new life, away from this

Well, Vito had the choice to let Michael go and live his life, even a political career [if may still possible] away from this but dragged Michael into the crime business anyway

What was really Vito's wish for Michael indeed

Fair points, Lana.

You could argue that all of the things you cite were done after Michael killed McCluskey and Sollozzo, at which point Vito knew there was no legitimate path for Michael (hence his anger when being told about that in his sickbed).

Vito's actions towards Michael are somewhat contradictory. I feel that Michael was always Vito's favorite and he sincerely "never wanted this" for Michael. But he also isn't exactly supportive of Michael straying too far from the Family (joining the army, having an "American" girlfriend).

That's part of what makes the hospital scene at Vito's bedside so poignant. Is Vito's tear when Michael tells him "I'm with you now" one of happiness or sadness? I think some of both.

Vito says in the novel that a man has but one destiny. I think he ultimately accepted that Michael's was to succeed him as Don.

W, I interpreted that scene as Michael's telling Vito that I am a son who has not always acted like a son. I have refused to follow your direction; I've gone my own way. I still intend to go my own way, but the estrangement is gone. Dad, you need me now as a father may need a son and I am here for you.

In other words, as some have opined otherwise, I need not interpret Michael's words as Michael's commitment to the Corleone criminal life.

I've mentioned before, the book contains parallel experiences for Vito and Michael:

Michael, in the hospital: "For the first time since it had all started he felt furious anger rising in him, a cold hatred for his father's enemies."
Vito, after accosted by Fanucci: "But at that time all he felt was an icy rage that this man planned to rob him of the money he had risked his life and freedom to earn."

I think that feeling of cold anger or rage is the call to "one destiny" for both men. The book, though, contains multiple hints that Michael is essentially the second coming of his father, and I don't think the movie is necessarily committed to that notion .

Well, essentially, I agree with you. As I've opined in other threads, Michael had his father's intelligence (as the novel states), but he lacked his father's ability to make friends, to endear people to him. I don't imagine that any baker was going to donate pies to Michael's sponsored festivities like Nazorine donated to Connie's wedding. Michael was not as prone to violence (as a first choice) like Sonny was, but, as you point out, he felt the rage. I think it manifested itself (though disguised) toward Geary at and after the Communion meeting with him.

No doubt about it: complex relationship between Vito and Michael. As Michael said to Fredo in Havana: "It's not easy to be a son."

Both shared a desire to be considered "legitimate." Vito derived his legitimacy by providing "justice" to his fellow Sicilian immigrants. He bought politicians and judges, but the novel makes clear that at least some of that was based on personal favors exchanged between them. Michael simply assumed legitimacy because he regarded himself as no more corrupt than other powerful men. They got elected or appointed to high office and were considered legitimate, hence Michael was no different than them, and was "legitimate." No personal touch there.

Vito's speech at the peace meeting 'cleared' Michael of all these false charges!

Turnbull “does not believe, a political career for Michael in the postwar era would be as far fetched as [we] might think”

Turnbull is a good man and I believe him!