Did Fredo Know? (GFII Related)

Wassup guys this is my first post. I've seen all movies a total of about five or six times each, but i was justin wondering if you guys think that Fredo knew Michael was gonna kill that night with Neri. And another thing im not sure about, which is were Neri and Fredo that close to be going fishing in the first place? I think he knew and just accepted it, it was just ironic that it happened while he was sayin his Hail Mary. So what do u guys think?

Welcome, I posted this a little while back (with the same name) but I dont feel like finding it.I think that when Anthony was called back, Fredo knew, and he accepted it. He knew he betreyed his brother,even if it wasnt on purpose.He probably would have said Hail mary because that was his fishing secret, but it added a lot to the scene.Hope you enjoy your stay on the BB

No, Fredo didn't know.

Fredo was not the type to face death gallantly, especially after being led to believe that all was forgiven. He was a nice guy but a weak, spineless coward and that had not changed since his boathouse showdown with Michael.

If he had even the slightest inkling of what was about to happen, he would've never set foot in that boat.

Apple

First of all, I never considered Fredo & Neri fishing pals. Neri was after all, a trusted employee of the family and at that point probably had taken Fredo and Anthony on many a fishing trip out on the lake. I would guess was there predominantly to operate the boat.

And with regard to the Hail Mary, you might recall an earlier scene (and a previous fishing trip) where Fredo tells Anthony that this was a trick he had to catch more than his brothers, when they went out fishing as boys with their father. So I guess we can gather from that that he recited the prayer EVERY TIME he went fishing, not just this once before getting shot in the back of the head.

Apple

True, but after Tony was called back, I think he did have at least a slight thought, but he accepted it. Notice the way he says "Lets' go Al" What else was he going to do, run screaming off the boat and be shot in front of his nephew?

I don't think Fredo knew because he had a childlike mentality. maybe he thought Michael forgave him. But maybe he did know because Anthony was called back. You make a good point.

I agree with AppleOnYa and Patches. I think it's a stretch to think that Fredo knew, and it's
over-analyzing the scene. After all the time that passed since the argument with Micheal, Fredo would have been lulled into believing he was safe.
Also, he always lacked the killer instinct and street smarts that would have been required to
figure it out.

Very well said madewoman. I see we are on the same level---and @ Partagas-neither would I!

He had no idea.

When Connie called out that Michael wanted to take Anthony to Reno 'NOW', then Fredo was disappointed to have to let his nephew go but still interested in going fishing. So what was he going to say besides, 'Let's go, Al....'.

If Fredo had had even the slightest clue that this was all a setup he would not have had to run screaming but simply say to Al that he didn't feel like going without Anthony, would wait for another time, and get out of the boat. In that case, what would there be for Al to do? Even if Fredo appeared nervous and let on that he was suspicious, Al would not have been able to blow him away right then & there...!!! They had to be out on the lake where there would be little to clean up and the body could be easily dumped overboard.

Fredo didn't know, Michael and Al knew he wouldn't know, because they knew he thought he was now in the clear...and that was how they planned and accomplished the killing.

Apple

Fredo may not have been the brightest bulb in the box, but no way did he even suspect he was set-up and wouldn't have been stupid enough to continue the fishing trip had he known. Actually, I agree with Apple. When Anthony was called back, Fredo was obviously disappointed, but had no clue of what was to happen.


TIS

Hey there, TIS !!

Good call. Fredo was neither stupid enough nor BRAVE enough to have accepted and faced his death so gallantly. He proved that time & time again throughout BOTH parts I and II.

I'm not sure what makes some people think that trait would suddenly change at that moment on the boat with Al.

Apple

Apple, you seem to think Fredo is a sack of clay, with absolutly no human thought process.He was smarter than you give him credit for.Although he was able to be misled by Roth and the like, he had to have at least suspected something wasnt right. Would his father let someone who had betreyed/been misled to betrey/whatever the family not once, but twice; would his father had let someone like that go? He had to have realized that by now there was no way he was going to be the Don, and maybe in a way this was a relief, of not having to look over his shoulder all the time.
madewoman-Of corce we're over-analyzing the scene, but what fun would it be if we didnt?
BTW- This is that topic I started a while ago Did Fredo know?

I think your being a little overly critical on what Apple said. Fredo wasn’t very smart; this point is shown many times in Godfather Part 1 & 2. Can you name 1 thing Fredo actually did which would portray him as being smart or smarter than we give him credit for? I for the life of me cant, I can though think of actions which were stupid on his part.

- Fumbling his gun when Vito got shot - Okay anyone can get nervous but it didn’t look good on his part.

- Siding with Moe Green in an argument with Michael, the first sign of things to come

- At Anthony’s party, he could not control his wife, shows he was quite a weak man.

- Helping Roth & not realizing the repercussions of those actions

- At first telling Michael he didn’t know Johnny Ola, then later at the Superman show, letting his tongue be a little too loose gave away that lie.

- Not leaving with Michael after the New Year's Eve Party that maybe construed as a smart move because he might have thought Michael might kill him but we knew that Michael never planned to kill him until after his Mother died. So not leaving with Michael made the situation worse

- Believing that Michael had actually forgiven him, we all wanted to think "Yes, Michael can let this pass" but this was the 2nd time Fredo went against the family, if Fredo was as sharp as his brothers (maybe not Sonny) then he would have realized.

Sure there are others too but I’m sure from that compiled list we can agree Fredo was pretty dumb and not ‘SMArt’ as he described himself.

Well, gosh DSC...I wouldn't have used precisely those words, but gotta give you credit you come pretty close.

Had Fredo possessed a 'human thought process', perhaps he may have considered the consequences in assisting Roth in no matter how minor a way, in the negotiations with his brother. Perhaps he might have wondered, even asked...exactly WHAT was in it for him once he got them what they wanted. Perhaps he would've realized that something in it for him, ON HIS OWN, was virtually impossible whether working for Michael OR Roth.

Perhaps if Fredo posessed a 'human thought process', he might have become just a bit suspicious about simply being 'bumped into' by Johnny Ola, then being wined, dined and treated to Superman shows (playing upon one of Fredo's main weaknesses), and then eventually being asked to help them in dealing with Michael, his Don, his own brother....as if this never would've happened if it were not for their 'chance' meeting. Perhaps if even once he'd bothered to use a 'thought process' and put 2 & 2 together, he'd have come up with 4, pulled out and informed Mike that he'd been approached. Perhaps the gratitude and new found respect from Mike would
have been far greater a reward than any that could be offered by Hyman Roth.

But no....it was precisely because he did NOT posess a thought process that he was chosen as the perfect mark by Ola & Roth. They knew they could count on him to simply follow the carrot they dangled in front of him, and not look beyond or even on either side of it.


Of course he suspected something wasn't right. He was being asked to turn traitor to his Don. He probably knew it would be wrong to do so. But since there was something in it for him on his own...that didn't matter.

No 'human thought process'. Fantastic choice of words, DSC...couldn't have put it better myself.

Thanks,
Apple

This subject hits very close to Apples heart. I've notice that this one, about Fredo knowing or not seems to bring Apple to the front. She knows what she thinks and isn't afraid to defend her views. Every time someone brings this up again, she takes the time to set the record straight.
Good for her.

and even if the film has been out fifty years, they will bring these tuff question up. Mario is gone, FFC doesn't spill the beans. Some of these tuff question may never be answered.

And I'll be the old bag of wind still hanging around ready to answer them !!

Thanks for your input, fathersson....you're sweet!

Apple

I reckon he did know. Said it before and I'll say it again. The "lets go" bit to Al reminded me of Tessio in the first one, he knew he'd been caught and he left quietly. I like to view it as Fredo's one noble act

However, Fredo was not Tessio, not even close.... and quite frankly, his one 'noble' act (or at least as close to noble as Fredo could get) was hanging up on Johnny Ola that night he called for more information.

Apple

True, no one is saying that Fredo was going to invent the internet, and he was a pretty dull guy, but he wasnt THAT dull. Had he thought about it, no one just kidnaps another boss and doesnt hurt them. But with Fredo's already weak mind and his greed, it got in the way. Greed gets in the way of even the smartest people, Tessio, for instance.Although Fredo was no Tessio, being around the Mafia all your life doesnt teach you that they just forgive and forget. I'm sure that Fredo would have done the same thing to Mike if the roles were reversed. Fredo knew he wouldnt be forgiven so he made friends with Anthony to show himself, and hopefully Mike, that he was with the family know, and intended to be "good". But on the lake, without Anthony, he knew he was not in thier good graces. (Yeah this is old, so what)Even if he would have gotten off the boat and "gone another time" he still wouldnt have been allowed to leave the compound. he would still be there, and Mike could easily have had someone sneak into his house and kill him. Fredo knew there was no way out and accepted it.

Im not even sure if you would put it down to greed for the reason he betrayed the family. As he said to Michael, he wanted his own cut, not for the money but to show Michael yes he was useful to the family & could make his own way. He also said he was 'Overstepped' by his younger brother, he wanted to disprove the reason for that happening & show everyone he was better than what they thought of him.

And he sure did show them, didn't he.

He showed them all!!!

Way to go, Fredo...

AppleOnYa

Greed doesnt have to just be about money. You can be greedy for power.

Of course not, Tessio was the smart one

There was no escape for Fredo, he knew it. The ' lets go al', and the Hail Mary story just clinch it for me


He would never escape Michael. He accepted his death

So what are you saying? He knew he was going to be killed while fishing? Because his story about 'Hail Mary' was told many days if not weeks before his death. So what he knew that was the way he was going to die, decided to Anthony about it & then just accepted his imminent death? Was this a sign to Anthony of what his father had done & was capable of? Bit farfetched, there was no way he knew, I’m betting even if Al said “let’s go fishing” before he reconciled with Michael that he would not have suspected a thing.

What?... are you talking about?

He told Anthony the story as a tale from his childhood, obviously not telling Anthony he was going to die. Only when anthony left the boat did he realise he was going to die (in my opinion). He started to pray- he says becausehe did that when fishing, but really as his way of making peace with god. So..not far fetched, just an opinion.

And saying Fredo would have not suspected al asking him to go fishing when he was still not reconicled with michael is just plain silly.

Fredo was not the brightest, but he was not a complete moron

The only reason he 'accepted his death' is because he didn't know it was coming.

As for him not being a 'complete moron', maybe not but he didn't have to be one to not realize he was being set up.

Some who discuss this over & over may not take into account that WE know Fredo's fate only because we've seen the film over and over and over again. We know it's coming, we know WHEN it's coming and we're ready.

But there are many here, including yours truly, who were taken by surprise and completely shocked at what happened to Fredo after Michael had apparently let him off. Furthermore, the first time I saw it I too thought Mike was a heel, how could he do such a horrible thing...until watching the movie a few times and over a few years and coming to the understanding that Fredo did, indeed have to go.

If we didn't see it coming that very first time...why would the cowardly, weak, stupid Fredo? Are we all complete morons?

Because some of continue to feel sorry for Fredo, we give the character far more credit than he really deserves.

He didn't know.

Best,
Apple

Apple! How good it is to see you. I had no one to argue with all weekend!
The Hail Mary was simply a ritual, nothing more, nothing less.
I dont feel sorry for Fredo, he deserved it. I think some of us underestimate the character.

I agree he didnt see it coming... until Michael took Anthony away. Then, I believe he knew

Of course we didnt see it coming either, but then we were watching a film for the first time... Fredo knew his brother for his whole life, and what the family (especially under Michael) was capable of... and it all came together at that one moment. I for one knew the minute Al and Fredo went out on the boat something was going to happen

The only 'ritual' involved in Fredo's reciting of the 'Hail Mary' was the one he had used since he was a kid fishing with his father & brothers...as he had explained to his nephew in an earlier scene. Every time he said the Hail Mary, he caught a fish.

That's all it meant to him, this last time too...it was NOT a gallant facing of the moment of his death...since he didn't know it was coming.

When Connie called Anthony off the boat, he promised the boy they'd go fishing again 'tomorrow'...and that he'd catch a fish using their 'secret'.

If Fredo had even the slightest inkling that his life might be in danger once left along with Al, he would've gotten off that boat as quickly as he could. He trusted Al, he trusted Michael...he thought he was forgiven.

Nothing 'came together' at the moment Anthony was called away. If we just look at Fredo in just about every single scene, from both Parts I and II...leading up to this last one, it is so clear that he just did not have it in him to face and accept death so calmly and bravely.

Get with it, folks...he did not know.

Best,
Apple

I second Apple's opinion. There's nothing to suggest that Fredo knew his execution was coming.. the fact that his "secret" conveniently is reciting a Hail Mary is besides the point and serves to make us THINK he was aware.

i agree, i think fredo accepted his forgiveness during the embrace between him and michael. its hard to judge how much michael and fredo communicated between the moment of their mothers funeral and the murder of fredo.
anyone know if there was much that went on between them during that period? and how long of a wait it was between the funeral and fredos death?
either way, that murder was to top all murders. the murder of your own brother. as blind and clueless as fredo was in most situations, i dont think fredo would have ever believed that michael would actually commit to killing him.
robert

I can understand some issues being a matter of interpretation or opinion such as who would be the better wife, Appollonia or Kay; or who would be the better Don, Sonny or Michael; or the ever famous question, did Fredo need to be killed.

But as far as Fredo knowing or not knowing he was gonna be killed, I think we need to take a step back and rememeber our first viewing of the movie. I agree with the others that Fredo did not have a clue.

The Hail Mary thing was simply a prayer to catch fish, that's it. Heck, I remember my parents saying, say a Hail Mary that the weather is good for the picnic tomorrow, or I'd say one to get a decent grade on a test. Granted, perhaps not the most unselfish reason to pray, but I think we all tend to "pray" for little insignificant things.

If Fredo was so brave to accept his death, why did he run like hell in Cuba when Mike was telling him to get in the car with him??? He surely must have thought then his fate was sealed. He was petrified that he would get killed. Human nature makes us resist death.

TIS

You guys are all wrong...

The scene is pourposely done in this fashion to leave us, as the viewer, guess and wondering... we are left to decide if for ourselves much like we all wonder what the hell was in that case in PULP FUCTION.

It creates intrigue and there is no one single answer.

theres no one single answer, and yet we are all wrong?

Actually, there IS a single answer, and that is that Fredo didn't know.

I believe that is the way the entire scene was set up, there is no room for guessing or interpreting as long as one has paid attention to the entire rest of the film.

Fredo didn't know.

Apple

apple, read the post above mine........you may have misunderstood my post.
robert

No, Robo...I did understand your post in response to the one before it.

I just liked your wording and decided to latch onto it to continue with the fun...!!!



Although I'll admit I could've taken the same words from LCN's post, still I liked yours better.

Kissing up...
Apple

gotcha.....salud!
robert

Nah, he knew

I asked him just before hand.

referring to Fredo running in Cuba is relevant- he ran, yes, for his life, but when Anthony left the boat, he realised he couldnt run anymore

Some people are getting slightly wound up over this issue

I think LCN is right in terms of the way the scene can be left open to interpretation

As long as you understand he knew

If only it were that simple.

Sure are...if only they'd get a grip & accept the obvious which is that Fredo didn't know, they'd be so much HAPPIER !!!

Apple

Forget it Apple, He is only pulling your chain.

I know that, fssn...and I'm pulling his!!

Geez, people - try & understand I'm capable of having a little fun even amidst my unrelenting views on this particular 'topic'.



Apple

He did know. he was tired of runnung and knew he could run all his life and still not get away.He had to have known what tha mafia is capable of and he had to have known he could never truely escape.Death on the lake might have been a relief for him.He would no longer have to worry about his problems.

Ok now that I read what I just wrote, I think that might be giving him too much credit, but he DID know!

That's the most amusing theory I've seen yet!!

Thanks, DSC for injecting a special touch of humor into the thread!

Apple

someone help me out.....when was fredo ever running, other than in cuba?? i recall him having a meeting with michael, i recall him wanting to talk to michael at the funeral, and when the embrace took place i think he felt forgiven, michael wouldnt even be there if fredo was there, now they were holding each other. he had to have felt secured. if he indeed knew, AND WAS RUNNING, i really find hard to believe he would just accept it and stay on that boat without trying to kill neri himself and make a name for himself which he has been trying to do all this time. please tell me when he was running so i can try to imagine him being tired of it.
robert

I dont think we ever SEE Fredo actually RUNNING again, but if you feel your life is at risk staying in a certain place, you are going to leave.
Lets use Apple's plan for a minute- Fredo,upon Anthony leaving the boat, knows he's going to die(which he did know )He then simply gets off the boat.He now knows his life is in danger and is going to try to leave the dangerous place(the compound)Mike wont let him.Now that he's in that situation, he constantly has to look over his shoulder.
I'm not saying a brilliant guy like Freddie came up with this all at once. He knew when Anthony left, but if he truely did not want to face death, he could have thought this through and ended the trip early, before Neri had the chance to kill him.

Except that Fredo didn't leave the boat because he didn't know.

And again...you're giving this dimwit credit for having the following though process the moment his nephew is called away:

"Uh, oh...this looks bad I think it's a trap, Al's going to kill me once Anthony is out of sight. I'd better get outa here but WAIT...now I realize Michael wants me dead, but where am I going to go I know they won't let me off the compound oh, well it looks like there's no escaping it now I may as well let Al take me out on the lake, blow me away and dump my body overboard because it's gonna happen sooner or later and by the way I'll use that Hail Mary thing as a final prayer before dying instead of just to catch a fish...."

Yes, DSC - next time I watch the movie I'll look for all that on Fredo's face...since John Cazale being the excellent actor that he was, would surely have conveyed it.

To think what I've been missing all these years....

And by the way....once that boat hit the water, there was no escape for Fredo whether he knew or didn't know what was going on. This was gonna happen. Ending the trip early to prolong his life (had he known, which he didn't) is simply laughable.

Apple

PS - Fredo didn't know.

that was pretty damn funny

fredo didnt know he wouldn't accept being killed he'd run as far as possible if he knew he was gonna die.

Fredo does not know he is about to be killed.

The "hail mary" thing is only to make the scene more powerful. If he had told Tony that to catch a fish he always lets say sang a Johnny Fontaine song, then he would have died singing. It's only to make the scene more sad that he dies praying, Unknown that he's about to be shot.

I don't know anyone can think Fredo deserved to die.

I believe that Fredo did know, but not until Anthony gets out of the boat. Think about it... what has happened EVERY SINGLE TIME that Michael has suddenly changed travel plans at the last minute?? (Tessio, Carlo)... Fredo must have been on to that.

I think when Fredo realized that Michael decided to take Anthony to Reno all of a sudden, he knew his time was up. Like a lot of people have mentioned before, when Fredo says "let's go Al." I kind of got the feeling that he was resigned to his fate. At least Neri had the common courtesy to let him finish his hail mary before he shot him.

Of course, this is only my opinion, and my interpretation of the scene. Nobody knows for sure.

oh yes, the disclaimer.....very important!

I thought I said that he didnt have to go through this process all at once.He could have been out on the lake when his thought process finally wrapped up. If he had made the decision to run, he could have said,"Al, my jacket has a hole in it and I'm FREEZING (or something stupid like that)Lets do this some other time" and had Al pull the boat back around.

Helps avoid heated arguments. CYA, ya know?

What makes you think Fredo had any knowledge of how the deaths of Tessio & Carlo (or even Moe Green) were arranged?

By this time he had no involvement in any of the family business other than his Vegas duties. Also by this time, he had already taken sides "against the Family" at least once.

That he'd be in on details like last minute changes in travel arrangement is doubtful.

HOWEVER, for simple viewer consideration it IS a very good catch !!

Best,
Apple

Point taken...but if he had had this 'thought process' once out on the lake, do you really think he'd accept it all and calmly drop his line into the water and recited that catch-a-fish Hail Mary while waiting for Al to pump the bullet?

OR...being so brave and accepting in your opinion, would he have simply turned to Al and said, "OK, I know what's going on and I'm ready so let's just get it overwith, please make it quick and paiinless...".



If you think either one then you clearly do not understand the character.

And again...once the boat hit the water there was no escape. Even if he figured it out (which he didn't) and came up with some lame excuse to end the trip early, Al would not have complied. He had a job to do and he was going to do it.

Apple

PS - Don Sonny Corleone...your theories are getting so ridiculous that I'm beginning to think you're just pulling my leg to keep responses coming.

Which if you are, is fine because the weekend is near and I'll soon be away from the board for a couple of days and...I've really been having fun with this thread!!

So Apple, what your saying then is, Fredo didn't know???

Now, if I only knew your opinion as to whether or not Fredo "had" to be killed.

Another "neverending" thread hu?


TIS

Wow..... this is a bit of a thorny issue, and not one I'd really given any consideration to until now.

But I've got too agree that Fredo didn't know. After Michael supposedly "forgave" him, his relief is palpable, I truly think he believed he was back in the fold.

When he runs away from Michael, that is out of panic and confusion, and not knowing who to trust....Michael, Roth......the whole nights events had shook him up.

I agree that Fredo does display a look of resignation when Anthony leaves to "go to Reno" instead of going fishing, but I think that is probably more disappointment on Fredo's part, he had obviously planned a fishing trip with his nephew and that had fallen through. He probably also hoped that getting closer to Anthony would bring him closer to Michael. Besides, Fredo often had that "oh well" expression. If Fredo had sussed what was going on at that stage, he would have bolted. He is basically a cowardly character and its not really in his nature to face his death like some kind of samurai warrier.

Gosh, TIS...I really haven't made up my mind yet !!

At least one thing's for sure...whether he knew about it or not, he HAD to go!!

Apple

This just in!!!!

Empire Magazine "Did Fredo know he was going to be killed by Neri?"

Coppola "Yes he did. Myself and Mario (Puzo) clearly conveyed this with the line 'Let's Go Al'. The resignation in his voice says it all."

Empire Magazine " We weren't so sure."

Coppola " You must be stupid then"

What makes me think that Fredo had knowledge of how the deaths of Tessio and Carlo were arranged is the fact that those 2 murders happened BEFORE Fredo ever betrayed the family. He was still part of the family at that point. He knew Michael's style. Just because he was in Vegas doesn't mean he had no idea what was going on in his family, or about Michael's tendency to snuff people by changing plans at the last minute.

Look what happened to Vito when Paulie called in sick, and Fredo had to drive instead. Fredo knew that sudden changes in travel plans were a bad omen.

Has FFC never ever answered all these questions then, ever?

Gosh, do you really think it would've been conveyed to him all the way out there in Vegas that ..."Here's how we got Tessio and here's how we got Carlo..."???

Again, somebody giving Fredo credit for far more intelligence than he had.

And...I don't really think he DID know Michael's style. If he did, he may not have truly trusted he was safe with Michael in the first place, even AFTER that embrace at their mother's wake. He might've thought (with time to mull over it of course and not at that very moment... ), "Gosh, this was nice to reconcile with my brother...but I know Mikey it's not like him to let me get away with this just to be on the safe side I better make myself scarce."

And by the way...although the BIG betrayal with Hyman Roth was still years away, by taking sides against the family with Moe Green, Fredo had already shown evidence that he was not to be trusted with the more important aspects of the business. And after that, he never was.


Unbelievable...to say this would be similar to saying that everytime somebody in the movie saw an nearby, they should've realize they were about to be whacked.

What is 'bad omen' to the audience isn't necessarily a bad omen to the characters in the film.

Oh, and say...have I mentioned yet that FREDO DIDN'T KNOW ?????

Loving every minute...
AppleOnYa

****FLASH THIS JUST IN ******

FREDO DID KNOW! FFC says that Fredo did know that he was going to get wacked! The long kicked around thread has finally come to a close.

FFC says that Fredo did know that we was going to be wacked.....


...He looked ahead in the script! and cried to FFC that he didn't want to go out that way. "Anyway but that", he was quoted as saying. "How about a gun battle instead or I take a bullet saving Mikeys life to make up for my misdeeds".

Francis just shook his head and said- "NO"

Now you have it my friends. Another riddle solved!

Ok... i think it's time for you to relax, take a deep breath, and admit that all of this stuff you're saying is simply your opinion, and your interpretation of the scene. You don't know for sure, and neither do I. Nobody does. Stop taking this argument so personally, and give it a rest with the snide comments. mmmmkay?

OH No...Another set of feathers ruffled!

And you're loving all of it, aren't you fathersson.. ???

Note to Mickey....not sure what makes you think I'm taking the argument 'personally'.

Or even what makes you think it's an 'argument'!
At the very most, I would call it a debate.

What I'm doing is calmly (but with a smidgen of glee) continueing the 'discussion' by countering your points with points of my own...

...which by the way all lead to the conclusion, which is not open to interpretation...that Fredo didn't know...

Which, by the way I know for sure.

Now Mickey, I think it's time for YOU to relax & take a deep breath, and unless you can come up with more 'opinions' to contribute with, sit back and wait until 6pm Eastern time at which point I am absent for the next couple of days !!

Best,
Apple

LoL... thanks. Best laugh I've had all day. I'd point out what's so funny about it, but who has that much time?

I'm right, you're wrong. Fredo knew. End of story.

Good thing for you that Apple doesn't have a computer at home, or this would never end.


But children, you know you should all play nice together. Yes, Mrs. Clever!


Now if we could only make money off of this somehow.

Oh, but Mickey...you just admitted in a recent post that you didn't know 'for sure'. So now, it's obvious you're just having a problem accepting the facts. I trust when you've watched the movie a few more times you'll come around and figure it out.

But anyway, fathersson has a point. I'll make a deal with everyone and promise to not rehash this debate once I've returned on Monday, even if it continues over the weekend. I don't need to, since I for one am secure in the knowledge that...

...Fredo didn't know.

Apple
(ps - but I cannot guarantee what will go down b'tween now and 6:00 )

(holding fingers in ears) and singing....

LA LA LA LA LA I CAN"T HEAR YOU! LA LA LA LA LA LA

Fatherson, I am still trying to figure out your purpose here,are you even contributing? On another side note, Roach028, the starter of this thread has not been back.I think we scarred him away

Apple, do you mind(when you get back)telling me how my theories are getting rediculuos? The only one I can think of as being rediculous was the one I admitted was rediculous.(like my repeated use of the word rediculous? Sort of like your repeated use of the word Gosh )By the way, FREDO DID KNOW! He might not have exactally known Mike's style, but he knew the ways of the mafia.I dont care how stupid you are, you're around the mob all your life, youre going to pick up on certian things, like the fact that the mob doesnt EVER forgive family trators.
FREDO DID KNOW!

Oh My, The thread police have arrived!

I know my rights!

You need to offer an attorney if I so desire.

Sorry, If you don't understand my posts, but the people who need to do....so

Charge me or let me go!

^^^^^^^^^^^
You see, no relevence to the topic At least say FREDO DID KNOW!!!!
You can copy and paste it if you want.
FREDO DID KNOW!

Ok ok... Come on now... I didn't come here to fight. You have your theories, and I have mine. You'll never convince me that Fredo didn't know, and I'll never convince you that he did. Let's drop it. It's not obvious that I'm having trouble accepting facts... There hasn't been one fact stated in this entire post so far regarding whether or not Fredo knew. Just peoples opinions and interpretations, as I stated earlier. And besides, I was just trying to annoy you. LoL, sorry about that.

Fredo knew

I have a bigger question for all you people who are so sure of their answers.....

What real difference does it make if he knew or not?

Ive have spent quite a while reading this lengthy and argumentative thread, and being a relatively new member (although i used to post on the old messge board waaaaayyy back in the day)and may be inviting myself a lot of mickey taking but here go's

I, too believe that Fredo had an idea, he was a corleone, not the brightest apple in the tree, but then nor was Sonny for blurting out what he was thinking in pt 1 or Connies plain refusal that Carlo was behind Sonnys killing, at the end of the day Fredo was a human being taken in by a very devious man, and in the end of the film that way he says 'ok al' i just feel that he knew death was coming, one way or another. Just a thought but perhaps Fredo knew that he was going to die and didnt care i.e. he had nothing to live for and wanted to die? just a thought, later on im going to start a thread on my percieved Innocence of Fredo and Pentangeli.

BTW - No amount of ridicule or piss-taking will deflect my views! It all about opinions at the end of the day, nobody knows the true answers

Speak for yourself. This particular subject is NOT about opinions and at the end of the day yours truly and a few wise otherse do know the true answer, which is that Fredo didn't know.

But as promised before the weekend, I'll now stay out of the thread since there's nothing more to say to those who foolishly continue to dig for evidence to the contrary.

Caio...

Apple

A stubborn soul.

I too know the true answers, i bumped into francis the other day and he told me, so there!