If Vito had lived

Michael was planning the move to Nevada when Vito was alive. He refers to "the move" in the "fishtank" scene and tells Carlo that he'll be his "right-hand man" in Nevada. Questions:

1. Would Michael have moved the family to Nevada while Vito was living?

2. Would Vito have moved with him? Or would he and Mama have stayed at the Mall or in the NYC area?

Your thoughts?

I think Michael would have moved the family to Nevada with Vito's blessing. Vito I am sure would have supported Michael's desire to make the Corleone family legitimate. Vito most likely stay in NYC but not the mall. That's where I think he would feel most comfortable not under Michael and his people's nose.

Well TB, timeline debates aside, Michael tells the capos that the move will take place in 6 months. Vito tells the capos the Michael now th head of the family. So, the move was on.

Vito would have stayed in NY.

I think Vito would have moved to Nevada. He was mostly interested in gardening by then, and I cannot see him away from his children and grandchildren.

I agree. I also think it'd be dangerous for Vito to remain in the NY area after the Great Massacre. Someone in the other families would seek vengeance, for sure.

There is no way that Vito would leave NY. There is no way that paisan could have felt the least comfortable in Nevada.

In any case TB, he would have had Clemenza to protect him and those who sought to harm him were dead.

Couldn't the massacre not have happened while vito was alive?

I wondered about that, too, because Vito swore that he would not be the first to break the peace that was made at the Commission meeting. But Michael wasn't bound by that pledge. And, when he and Vito were in the garden together, Vito warned Michael: "Whoever comes to you with this Barzini meeting--he's the traitor." That tells me that Vito was in on the planning for the Great Massacre of 1955. And, since the Barzini meeting seemed imminent and Vito wasn't planning on dying, I guess the massacre would have gone ahead if he had lived.

I agree TB. The great massacre of "'51" would have happened regardless. There's nothing to indicate (even in the novel)that the massacre was contingent on Vito's longevity.

Oh no not this 51 stuff again. Its said 55 on Vito's tombstone

This is an example of the novel better developing this portion of the plot when compared to the film. At the end of the Commission meeting, Vito tests Tom to see Tom's reaction to Vito making the peace. Tom astutely replies that he cannot believe that Vito gave his enemies the victory they appeared to receive. Hagen said "so how can I approve or disapprove?" Hagen felt all the clues Vito provided to an upcoming day of reckoning.

Vito was merely making a tactical retreat in his decision to the Commission. Vito was formulating a complicated plan to exact his revenge for Sonny's death, which involved the safe return of Michael. With Michael returned from exile, Vito could keep his peace promise to the Commission while also using Michael to wipe out the other Family Dons. Vito knew that Michael was underrated by the enemy and that he could use this as a huge strategic advantage. In addition Vito knew that Michael would naturally want to avenge the deaths of Santino & Apollonia.

Also a result of the meeting as explained in the novel: Vito wasn't going anywhere. He gave instructions to Hagen to buy all the adjacent lots near the Long Beach mall. He instructed Hagen to do it slowly so as not to alert the enemy. Vito explained "I now wish to live in a fortress."

I agree Vito would have gone to Nevada, and lived with Mama on the compound. He would do his gardening and don't forget he liked to go fishing also.

It is telling that in the Moe Green scene Tom makes it explicitly clear that the Don is "Semni-Retired" and tht Michael was in charge of the family business. My guess is Tom started taking the "semi" out of it when he spoke about the family after that. For sure when he was in Vegas laying the groundwork for the move he made it plain to evryone that Michael was now the boss. In fact had he lived, my guess is he would have gone to the safety of the Tahoe compound before the massacre.

This should have been a "tell" to the other families that Vito could keep his pledge, but that Michael was not bound by it....EXCEPT...Michael brilliantly hid the true strength of the family, nd no one knew how powerful they were, nor how strong Michael was. Reminds me of another Pacino movie "The Devil's Advocate when Pacino advises that it is better to be underestimated, and to "never let them see you coming."