possible answer to drapes question

I know that we have all gone back and forth many times about the "who opened the drapes" question, but is it possible that one of the guys with Johnny Ola did it? When they all walk in, Michael tells Rocco to get Johnny's men something to eat and then they all leave the room. Then Michael sends Tom out and tells him to tell Rocco that they are waiting for him. Once Rocco comes in, there's noone watching these guys and one of them could have snuck upstairs to open the drapes. Is this a feasible possibilty?

Marco, it's possible that one of Ola's men opened the drapes, but it isn't likely. I believe security was tight at the compound despite the hundreds of people present. Note how Rocco keeps scanning the crowd. And, as soon as Johnny and his men arrived, Michael dispatched Rocco to get them some food. Maybe it was hospitality, but I bet Michael wanted to have them under surveillance, out of general cautiousness.
The reason that I (and perhaps many here) believe Fredo opened the drapes as part of his betrayal of Michael is because, as a member of the family, he could come and go in the house without being challenged by the guards that Rocco undoubtedly posted around the house to keep curiosity-seers (and pilferers) among the guests from entering.

Yes, Turnbull is correct in stating why most believe that it was Fredo. And let me add to that the fact that Fredo felt scared when he got the call from Johnny Ola;

"You guys lied to me -- I don't want you to call me anymore."

Now what did they lie to him about? What did he do for them? Logic tells us that he did something to help Ola and Roth and then after seeing that they attempted to kill Michael, Fredo got scared and realized that whatever he did, he almost helped them to kill his own brother. And to me, the only logical thing that he could have done which made him scared, after the hit attempt on Mike, was to open the drapes.


Don Cardi

Wrong. There are innumerable things that Roth/Ola could've told Fredo that he realized were lies immediately after the shooting.

1. That Michael was 'being tough' on negotiations.

2. That there would be something in it for him if he helped out.

3. That whatever he did for them (not necessarily open some bedroom drapes) would be 'good for the family'.

4. Whatever they said would be done with whatever information he provided...would've also been exposed as a lie once the shooting took place.

There's nothing they could've told Fredo that would had him agreeing to open the drapes to Michael's bedroom.

Although Marco's scenario is actually a good one and FAR more logical than the 'Fredo' theory...the question of the drapes is technically unanswerable and therefore ANOTHER flaw in the story for two reasons:

1. After living in that house for at least 4 years...Kay would never dressed for bed and then gotten under the covers without noticing the drapes were wide open.

2. No one, not even Fredo...would've been able to get in the room, open them and leave once Kay was there.

Apple

Well Apple, you say that I am "wrong" like you actually know exactly what Fredo did for Ola and Roth! Did you co-write the screenplay or something?

Quote

1. That Michael was 'being tough' on negotiations.
2. That there would be something in it for him if he helped out.

Telling Fredo that Michael was being tough on the negotiations, and that there was something in it for him, does not disprove my theory one bit. Perhaps these were some of the reasons that Ola and Roth gave Fredo for having him open those drapes. Perhaps they told him that there would be a kidnapping or something and they needed to see inside the house. Who knows what they told him to make him open those drapes.

And it was. That's maybe why Fredo told Ola, "you guys lied to me, don't call here...etc. etc." Once the hit took place, their lies to Fredo were exposed, and he realized it. What else could he have felt both scared and guilty of, at that point of the phone call from Ola, right after the shooting? What could he have done that made him perhaps realize that he almost got his brother killed? Open the drapes maybe?

I find it funny that you find the theory of Ola's men walking around the Corleone house and going into the Corleone bedroom to open the drapes far more logical then a family member, a brother, walking into the room to open the drapes.

But we ARE just speculating here. The subject is about the POSSIBLE answer to who opened the drapes. So I gave my reasons as to why I think that Fredo was the one who opened the drapes. No one is right or wrong.


Don Cardi

What I said was 'wrong' was your statement that:

"..the only logical thing that he could have done which made him scared, after the hit attempt on Mike, was to open the drapes..."

As I then said, there were MANY things that they could've lied to him about, that he could've done to help them...that would've made him piss scared after the hit attempt.

"..What could he have done that made him perhaps realize that he almost got his brother killed? Open the drapes maybe?.."

Possible. But it's FAR from the 'only logical thing he could've done' that would've made him scared.

So that's where you are wrong.



Sure, we're speculating and it's lots of fun. As with any topic we can make up all the background stories we want. But in this case, Kay's presence in the room whether before or after the opening of the drapes simply defies any 'logical' answer. We can speculate 'who' opened them, but logically because of Kay lying in that bed, they couldn't have remained open until Michael was conveniently standing in front of them.

And yes, due to the activity in the house that day, in a well orchestrated plan it would be possible for someone other than a 'family member' to infiltrate the house and make their way into the bedroom to open the drapes.

What's more interesting to speculate on (in my opinion) is exactly HOW Fredo helped Roth & Ola. Because I don't think it was to 'open the drapes'.

Apple

I also believe that, for lack of a better theory, that it was Fredo who opened the drapes. But if thats true, how did he not know it was going to be a hit? What did he think was the purpose of opening the drapes? I think Fredo is telling the truth when he says he didn't know that it was going to be a hit, but if thats true and he did in fact open the drapes, how could not have known?

VOTE
http://www.gangsterbb.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005964#000012

Mike and Kay are living on what is a gigantic estate obviously worth millions. They have guards, even guard dogs. But what they don't seem to have is staff - maids, etc. Curious. May we assume that they did have at least one maid and that it was the maid that opened the drapes or forgot to close them as evening set in?

Actually the maid turned out to be Paulie's cousin, and she called in sick the day of the communion party. You won't see her no more.

I'm sure others have seen this as well and considered its ramifications, but I thought I'd throw it out there since the topic is presently being discussed. I was watching the Bonus Materials disc of the trilogy DVD set out of boredom and noticed an interactive family tree in which you can select certain members of the Corleone family and read a one or two paragraph character synapsis. With regards to Fredo it mentioned he was murdered on the orders of his brother for providing Johnny Ola's men info about the layout of the compound.

I know it's widely accepted that Fredo opened the drapes, but what if all he did was provide them info about the compound, such as where Michael's room was at. That certainly would seem to be enough info to get the job done. After all, they had managed to elude or kill Rocco's security well enough to be stationed right outside Michael's bedroom window. They were obviously close to the window considering they were using fully automatic machine guns, guns which aren't made for shooting over great distances. Suppose the plan was simply to start blasting once the lights went out. I know they probably would have killed Kay, and maybe even one of the children, in the process, but I highly doubt Ola would have cared. The whole nobility of the Mafia for not killing innocents is proven to be a load of bullshit several times in the movie itself, i.e. Ciccio's men coming to kill an innocent 12-year old Vito, gunning down Tattaglia's whore along with him, or killing the Pope.

I see the reasoning for believing that Fredo opened the drapes, and it still remains a possibility. I don't mean to sound like my theory is absolutely correct and all others are hogwash, espeically since we have no way of knowing. I just think it is far too great a risk for Fredo to have gone into Michael's room to open the drapes. Michael didn't anticipate Fredo's betrayal, but he obviously had suspicions it might one day happen. As soon as the hit was attempted, Fredo was one of the people he immediately suspected could be the traitor. The seed of suspicion must have been planted before that night. With this in mind, I don't think there's anyway Michael would have given Fredo free reign around the compound. Just judging from the controlling nature of Michael's character, I highly doubt anyone other than himself, Kay, Anthony, Mary, and maybe Mama Corleone and Tom ever had access to his room where his wife sleeps and his children play with their toys. I think it's unlikely Fredo had access into Michael's bedroom and even more unlikely he was able to sneak past the men guarding the compound. I think it's much more likely Ola's men were able to silently kill the guards outside the window in the dark, which they obviously did, then it was for Fredo to be able to sneak past the guards in the well-lit, confined spaces of the compound.

Finally, I think you have to consider the source. There are some fantastic minds with regards to the movie, but if the movie makers claim Fredo leaked info about the compound and that was his betrayal, then it's kind of hard to argue with their opinion. I suppose the possibility exists that Fredo leaked the info AND opened the drapes as well, but if the movie makers think it important enough to reveal the actions of Fredo's betrayal, why would they only tell us half the story? Let the debate begin.

I almost forgot one more thing. It is widely believed here that Ola's men lied to Fredo about the hit by telling him it would be a kidnapping, not murder, hence Fredo's dialogue during the late night phone call. If all Fredo did was provide Ola with info about the compound, this fits perfectly with the kidnapping hypothesis. Just giving away the layout of the compound in order to snatch Michael would seem harmless to Fredo. Asking him to sneak into his brother's bedroom and open up the drapes would raise a red flag for even someone as simple minded as Fredo. Again, Fredo opening the drapes still is plausible in this scenario, but I think the idea of him simply supplying info about the compound seems more plausible yet.

Well, this is where a great deal of controversy originates (and many threads):
The indisputable fact is that opening the drapes was a key move in the planned assassination of Michael--FFC leads us right to it when he has Kay remark on the fact that the drapes are open, and the shooting begins almost instantly. I believe a majority of people here think Fredo opened the drapes, if for no other reason than he was more likely than, say, Johnny Ola's men to get into the bedroom without raising suspicion. Jimmy Buffer's point to the contrary isn't invalid, but Fredo remains the most likely culprit.

After that, the general consensus falls apart. Some people believe that Fredo didn't intend for Michael to be killed--he thought he was facilitating a kidnapping, and was dumb enough to fall for that line of BS. Others (full disclosure: including me) believe that he had to know it was gonna be a hit: why else would he open the drapes--so the gunmen could peeping-tom Kay as she undressed? And that controversy leads to another: did Fredo deserve to die? I don't want to stir up any of those again. Just use the "search" function if you want to follow up.

I have no problem with the Fredo opened the drapes theory. Up until yesterday, I was a firm believer. Once I saw the blurb on the bonus disc though, I couldn't help but be swayed a little. It just doesn't make any sense why the movie makers would tell us what Fredo did to betray Michael and mention nothing about the drapes in their explanation. Since we're discussing a fictional movie, there are always going to be plot holes, but the omission of opening the drapes in the explanation doesn't fall into that category. In trying to keep the audience guessing as to who the traitor was, FFC had to use as little detail as possible, hence the unanswered question of who opened the drapes. In explaining Fredo's betrayal after the fact, there was no such need for suspense, just a straight forward explanation, which is in fact given, but includes no mention of opening the drapes. Just when I thought I was out of the drapes discussion, the family tree pulls me back in!

Yes and no.

NO...because in the end he was 'sweet and helpless' and 'weak and stupid' as described by BOTH his siblings. While living on the compound having been 'forgiven' by his brother, he most likely would've been harmless, happy and loyal for the remainder of his natural years.

YES...because the bottom line, whatever the outcome...was that he turned traitor for nothing more than personal gain, nearly caused the death of his brother, the subsequent collapse of his Family, and probably his own demise as well, once the enemy no longer needed his services.

In my opinion (not intending to stir up another 'controversy')....YES wins hands down.

Apple

I was watching GF II on tv today and as I was doing so, Mike was talking to Anthony after the assault and Anthony asked Mike if he got his present - Anthony's drawing. This would mean Anthony was possibly the last and only one to have entered the room. He may have opened the drapes after being asked to do do by Pentangali. Although it was not shown as was so many other plot holes, Pentangeli may have asked Anthony to open the drapes for what ever reason - Frankie may have said something to the effect - " Anthony, your dad wanted me to ask you to open the drapes in the bedroom, so that he could look out on this beautiful night. He would have asked you himself, but he got busy with business. Don't say anything to him, he gets embarassed when he has somebody deliver messages for him. "

Ehhhh....I don't think so.




Don Cardi

I think it was Mary. I think she had a "daddy" thing and wanted Kay out of the picture.

The whole assasination thing doesn't make sense. Whoever opened the drapes couldn't guarantee that they would stay open. Others have pointed out that certainly Kay would have noticed them opened before Michael entered the room and closed them. I just can't believe a women would walk into her bedroom with the bay window drapes wide open with all the men around. Then there's attempting an assasination at the main house right out in the open. Then the assasins having to get away. Then, someone murders the assasins easily enough. Why not give an assassin a scoped rifle and have him pick off Mike from a distance? So, do we have one traitor or two, or more? So many questions.

Nor I. Also, in a deleted scene, Frankie is shown being very warm-hearted and generous to Anthony, very family oriented. It's a very affecting scene. There's no way Frankie could have been involved in that shooting.
Also, if Anthony had been asked to open the drapes, wouldn't he have told Michael after the shooting?

No one has mentioned Kay.

Very unlikely, of course, but possible.

Yea it was kay cuz she was so mad at Michael cuz it's been 7 years and he's still not legit yet. So she put a hit out on him. I'm sure she knew that Ola and his goons were there

I've been gone awhile. But has anyone ever thought that maybe Michael put a hit out on himself to start a gang war so he could take over everything? Stranger things have happend, no?

Could have done,but would have took out his own brother..I don't think so.

My question is: suppose the drapes hadn't been open. Was the light visible through them from outside? That may have been a better clue to the gunmen, assuming they (or an accomplice) was keeping track of MC's whereabouts, and the hit was planned for when he would return to bed. They sprayed the whole room, not just a sniper shot at Michael. So, ironically, if the drapes had been closed, Michael may have undressed and lingered around just long enough to be shot to pieces. But that last word from Kay triggered his instincts in the nick of time...As to who did open the curtains: put yourself in Anthony's shoes. He's waiting for his Dad to come up and see the drawing. He may have pulled the cord to get a look outside to see where his Dad was, or maybe to take a peak at some sounds he heard, whatever. A little boy's curiosity could be the unknown variable that the plotters could not plan on. (I wish I knew the outside of the house better)
I think the whole scene is author chosen for effect, not realism.

Take it easy Matlock.

Is it possible that FFC wrote a shi*ty script?

Shit*y script or not, I give you strict assurances that he did NOT intend for us to sit around and analyze the outside of the Tahoe house like the grassy knoll and Texas School Book Depository.

You are all wrong. It was Tom Hagen who was sick of being kept in the dark and not being treated as a "real brother."

I still say it was the gardener, Manolo.

It couldn't have been Manolo. Pacino shot and killed him when he found him with the sister.

Maybe, just maybe, it was Emilio.


Don Cardi

I'm thinking it was one of the Sierra Boys Choir, who didn't really believe that Michael was Mr. Wonderful.

Maybe it was Merle who was mad he didnt get the money for the trip on the Queen.

It coulda been Anthony, when he came in to put the picture on the bed???

I did not realize until this moment that it was Kay all along. She opened the drapes because this Sisssssilian thing thats been going on for 2000 years must all END!

It could have been. However after viewing a deleted scene, I feel that it was a conspiracy by Michael's immedeate family, put together by Mary.

Mary was behind it because she knew, that someday, she would be named the executor of the Vito Corleone Foundation and with her father out of the way, she could make a cool $100 million and Roth could make his $2 million. As a matter of fact there is a deleted scene in GFIII where Mary confesses to Anthony that she ran into Johnny Ola's boy in a beverly hills pre-school. And Little Ola told her that her father was being tough on some negotiations with his dad, and if she could help, there'd be something like $100 Million Dollars in it for her.

It was the smart move. Mary was always smarter.



Don Cardi

Al Neri's kid took her fishing.

Mary also knew with her father out of the way there would be no Godfather III, and she would neither be held up to national ridicule as a terrible actress, nor subjected to the heartache of a broken incestuous relationship.

For the movies sake i would go with Fredo. Kay may have changed her clothes in the bathroom and was too tired (it was a long day being in the party) to notice the drapes had been left open and when micheal wakes her up the whole thing sets in motion.

I also think Fredo didnt know it was going to be hit (somebody said something about a kidnapping, sounds plausible as fredo was stupid enough to think it would be harmless).

Even if one of the kids left the drapes open, for whatever reason Kay was too tired to notice.

Unless Kay opened them.

But she says to Mike why are they open when mike wakes here up, she isnt that stupid but being tired.... thats more plausible.

We've all agreed it was Anthony - the son of Satan

I'm going to be the black sheep and disagree

Forget it it makes more sense that Antonhy was the one who opened the drapes. I realsied after thinking it through.

So much for being a black sheep .