Bold or foolish moves?

Sometimes we judge decisions by their outcome and not by the situation they were made.
For example, the massacre (please, discuss the year in the other thread) was a plan with so many insecure whens and ifs that it was a very risky thing to do. What if Neri had failed on his way to Barzini, what if Carlo had smelled a rat, what if Barzini had turned sick and hadn't gone to the hospital, etc.?
The same thing with the killing of Sollozzo and McCluskey. It was so risky: witnesses, Sollozzo might have smelled a rat and killed Michael or McCluskey could have been a bit more aware, or someone might have recognized the Corleone man who placed the gun in the bathroom, etc.
Compared to those moves, it was relatively safe to send a man like Luca to the Tattaglias. Especially because he was given a lot of time. He didn't approach the Tattaglias directly, he hung around Bruno's bars. And one day, Bruno approached him. Even during the meeting with Bruno and Sollozzo he wasn't fast in agreeing with Sollozzo. So I say, it was a little risky, but not as much as some other things the don had done.

Killing all the Dons at one time was so risky that it could only have been the product of directorial license. Even one slipup, unforseen circumstance or delay would have derailed the entire plot and led to another protracted war. The novel, more realistically, has only Barz and Tatt killed that day. Moe Green got his much earlier.

I think Michael whacking Sol and Mac was much more plausible. Michael was a civilian at that point, Sol thought himself invincible with Mac alongside him, and planting the gun was not farfetched.

What was farfetched was Vito sending Luca to the Tattaglias with the story that he was "not too happy" with the Corleones. Every Mob guy in NY knew Luca was Vito's man to the death. And everyone knew that Vito could not possibly let Luca, "my most valued friend" (movie), a "man who could do a job of murder all by himself" (novel), ply his unique trade for another family. That's where the Don was slippin'.

I find this thread interesting and timely. I am currently in Spain on vacation and attended my nephew's son's baptism in a 16th century church. I was just telling my wife how this whole ordeal reminded me of GF2 the day that Michael had ordered the assassination of the heads of the five families. The priest asked my nephew the same questions the priest in GF2 asked Michael. "Do you renounce Satan?" It was very surreal.

Here are a few pics of the ceremony, along with a family photo of our own Spanish "crime family!"

Very nice! Congratulations!

Yeah, but only because we know the result. It could have been a very smart move. A trap for Barzini who considered himself to be smarter then Vito. And if every-one thought, Vito was getting old, then it could have been a plausible move for Luca. Look, he never said he was unhappy with the Corleones, he never worked openly against the Don. He pretended to behave the same way Paulie behaved. Looking for extra money.

As I recall in the novel Luca essentially says to Bruno that he'd never go against Don Corleone (to be expected, and something Bruno probably knew), but he indicates that he's looking for something to do on the side.

I think the only flaw with that plan was that Sollozzo and Tattaglia had planned to *kill* Don Corleone and so they *had* to get rid of Luca, not because they smelled a rat (with all due respect to Turnbull, I think it wasn't out of the ordinary for a man like Luca to want more money, and he was explicit about NOT being involved in anything that would go against the Corleones due to his respect for the Don - I seem to recall their discussion involved Luca being muscle only), but because they knew full well when they killed the Don (remember they didn't plan for their two guys to screw up), Luca would be after them out of revenge. Even if he was on their payroll for the drug racket, and the hit happened months or years down the road, he would turn on them in a heartbeat out of loyalty/respect to the then-late Don Corleone.

I'm pretty sure that the discussion to kill Luca must have been heavily debated, since having a guy like that on your payroll would be a great benefit, but Luca had to die to avoid repercussions for what was to come.

Keeping carlo out of the business was a foolish thing to do. It brought about the death of sonny

The smart part of sending Luca with his story is that he announced first hand to everyone that he would never go against the Godfather, making it believable that he is not coming in as a snake in the grass, but as a helping hand that would strike on command, for the right price of course. In the movie Luca is made out to be a loner, but in the book it says many times that he has a crew under him. Also the heads of the families being kill and the "baptism by fire" scenes are in GFI not GFII.

Luca had a crew? You'll have to cite those references. I don't remember them at all.

However, what the novel does make very clear is that Luca's loyalty to Vito was legendary in the NY underworld and he would never share that loyalty or any portion of it with another family. Sollozzo, Barzini, and Tattaglia knew this and would never buy Luca's cover story. The Don was slippin', indeed!

Luca used a group of men in the hit on the Capone killers, but it's ambiguous if it was a permanent crew. Isn't there something in the book to the effect that Luca's thing is that he can pull off a hit acting solo?

Exactamundo!

I think, the Tattaglias didn't really suspect Luca of being an infiltrator. It was Sollozzo who saw his chance of killing Luca, no matter what Luca's plan was.
The weakness (or slippery) of Vito was that he didn't foresee the power of the Sollozzo/Barzini/Tattaglia coalition.
Turning of Paulie, the hit against Vito AND Luca and the abduction of Tom were very well planned. It was simply bad luck for Sollozzo/Barzini that Vito survived. And it was good luck for Neri/Michael that Barzini died. (Even in the novel version of the killing, Barzini's bodyguards just froze, unable to help their boss, just like Fredo.)

In the book it talks about Luca having a place where he and his crew gambled all night long. Also when describing Luca's day to day it say something alone the lines of he sleeps till afternoon, has breakfast, makes his rounds to collect, spends time with a whore or two, and then either goes to a club or goes to his crews hangout a gambles all night.

If the don had any idea an attempt was going to be made on his life, he would have never sent Luca, cause like all of you have said, before you can make a move on the don you have to kill Luca. Vito didnt realize he was playing right into his enemies hand.

I think that if Barzini had survived that attempt, he would have been taken out soon enough regardless. As we've noted before, per the novel several Barzini and Tattaglia capos join the Corleones immediately after their bosses were hit. That, plus the degree of coordination required to pull off the hits, implies to that Michael had built up significant contacts inside the other families. I think the assassinations were just the final step in a strategic victory that the Corleones had won through the years.

No, the novel does not state that Luca had a crew. He gambled with crones.

Most soldiers in mob families have associates working for them and so had Luca.

It would be very helpful to the topic if you would read the book again. It specifically talks about Luca staying up gambling all night with his CREW at their HANGOUT. I will find my book and quote it for you if you would like. I also had no idea about Luca having a crew until i read the book, the movie acts like he is a loner that doesnt even talk to anyone but Don Vito. This is one of the many reasons why the book is better than the movie.

Are you sure? The passage I believe you're thinking of says "stayed up gambling with cronies" as previously mentioned. That doesn't necessarily indicate those guys were Luca's men, just other Corleone henchmen. Remember Luca's claim to fame was the he "could do a job of murder all by himself" so I don't think he had actual underlings; he probably had other button men he would work with if he needed to, but he wasn't like their capo.

Also says something of the nature that a neighbor moved out due to Luca and his crew staying up making noise gambling all night, or does it say cronies there too?

Definition of CRONY

: a close friend especially of long standing : pal

The mayor rewarded his cronies with high-paying jobs after he was elected.
<the criminal's cronies were also closely questioned about the illegal gambling operation>

If i had a crew, i would want it to be made up of my cronies.

In Filomena's "when you're a hundred" story about Luca in the book, they say "two of his men" assisted her. But that flashback occurred before Luca worked for Vito.

Crony is indeed also used to state that someone belongs to - or works with - a certain group or individual.