Frank Pantangeli

I always thought Frank was a loyal guy. He just got screwed over by Roth and The Rosatos. however Frank asked Mike if he could take care of them but Mike refused. That turned out to be a mistake because if the rosato's were taken out than Roth would have lost a lot of muscle to put a move on the Corleones. What do you think?

Mike had his reasons for stopping Frank taking out the Rosato's.

At first he had 'important business with Roth' that he didn't want disturbed.

Then he needed 'Roth to be completely secure' in their relationship so he could find out who the traitor in his family was. Worked too.

It's debateable. I understand he had dealings with roth and wanted him to be secure but at the same time roth pretty much outsmarted mike. Pantangeli was right vito may have dealt buisness but he was always cautious and didn't trust roth

Yeah Pentangelli was right.

I think at the specific times when Micheal told Frank to 'settle your differences with the Rosato's' it was the right decision.

Obviously considering what Roth was upto, you can look back on the decision and question it but I'm still not sure how removing the Rosato's would have helped the Corleones. They played quite a insignificant part in Roth's scheme in my opinion.

As someone posted above, Michael had his reasons which were more strategic than Frankie's rather parochial view of things. He did tell Frankie that if Roth saw that he interceded on the Rosato's behalf, then Roth would believe that their relationsip was still good. I don't know how much more plainly he could have explained it to Frankie.

Well they were his muscle. Without them Mike wouldn't have been brought to the Senate hearing

I doubt they were Roth's only muscle. They were pawns in Roth's plan, without them he would have used someone else.

Where were they when Roth was running scared seeking solace in foreign countries?

Mike could take out the Rosatos at any time and that's why he said to Pentangeli that he'd have to wait.

They where on the run too after they failed to take out Pentangeli.

You guys might find this topic interesting:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=589929

The Rosato Brothers represent just how thoroughly Michael's greed for Roth's Cuban gaming empire blinded him to Roth's treachery:

In a nutshell: Logically, why would Roth, who had no interests in New York, involve himself in a dispute between Frank Pentangeli and the Rosatos? And why would he take the Rosatos' side? Michael should have smelled a rat. I'd guess that he might have probed Roth about his interest in them, maybe not have been convinced. But then Roth, playing on Michael's greed, said, "Look, Michael, just do me this favor. It'll be good for our deal." That was all Michael needed to hear.

Shows that, as a form of 'muscle', they were hardly a threat to the Corleones.

Thanks for the link, giving it a read now. I love learning about deleted scenes!

They were a treat to Pentangeli, not to Michael. At least not directly. And I'm not even sure if the Rosatos saw Michael as an enemy.

Btw, the Rosatos are closely modeled on the Gallo brothers, including the scene when Pentangeli is nearly killed. The whole Rosato-Pentangeli conflict is based on the Gallo-Profaci conflict.

When i say muscle I mean they were pawns in his plan he used them because of their feud with Pantangeli. The rosato's were important in his plan because of their feud with Frank and he wanted to get Frank to turn informant

I suppose I can see where your coming from. When Micheal realised that Roth was the one who tried to have him killed, he should maybe have had the Rosato's dealt with, knowing that Roth may use them against him.

However, as noted above, he did have reasons for not dealing with the Rosato's, so he could preserve his relationship with Roth and then find out who the traitor in his family was.

Well I'm talking about in the beginning of the movie. Mike had no idea and wanted to work with roth on a deal. Roth just played him bigtime lol

Yes, I suppose Micheal was wrong to even want to work with Roth (and thus, the Rosato's), but that wouldn't have made for much of a movie

Wonder if Mike felt bad or any emotion about being wrong about Frankie , before he flips

Mike had just had his own brother killed. I doubt he was feeling much emotion then.

??
In what way was Michael wrong about Frankie? He knew right away that Roth, not Frankie, was behind the Tahoe shooting.

Michael ruthlessly manipulated Frankie. He scared the s**t out of him by visiting him unannounced. Then, when he told Frankie that Roth was the culprit, Frankie practically passed out with relief. So, when Michael asked him to "help me take my revenge," Frankie said: "Michael, anything..." That's when Michael asked him to stick his head in the lion's mouth by meeting with the Rosatos to "settle these problems." Michael couldn't lose: If they settled, it was one more worry off his mind. If the Rosatos killed Frankie, it'd be further confirmation of Roth being behind the Tahoe shooting. It was Michael at his most cunning--and most reprehensible.
That was the real injustice done to Frankie.

But, injustice or not, Frankie broke omerta and ratted out Michael to the Feds. He intended to bring Michael down with his affidavit and his testimony. He knew the risk he was taking. According to the code he swore to uphold when he was made, he had to die.

I agree TB. Throughout II, the last thing Michael is manifesting is remorse about anything.

Apologies if this has been discussed before but I just thought of a question... Why wouldn't Michael take Pentangeli into strict confidence and let him in on the ultimate plan? Wasn't Frankie the most trusted Corleone Family member in New York at that time? I am interested to hear the main reason why? Michael's fear of plan leaking? Obviously at the top of the list but why else? Thanks.

Well, I still say he had to feel bad about wearing that ascot.

Just somehting else to blame on Fredo.

Michael realized Frankie's limitations. Frankie even described himself as not having a mind for big deals. He was too spontaneous; Michael realized that too much information could overwhelm Frankie, or be misinterpreted by him, or not register with him at all resulting in unintended consequences.

Mark, if I understand your question correctly:

Michael had no need to tell Frankie about his Cuban plan with Roth (prior to the Tahoe shooting) because Frankie wasn't part of it.
He also didn't tell Frankie about his plan to kill Roth before the New Year because he hadn't thought that up until he got to Cuba, when he learned that Roth planned to kill him just after the New Year. So, when he told Frankie to just go along with him until he could find out who the traitor in his family was, he was telling Frankie about as much as he knew at the time.

Plus, as Oli said, Frankie wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and Michael had no incentive to tell him any more than he needed to know to be helpful to Michael.

Sounds like a natural for Frank "Can-o'-Peas" Pentangelli.

"Ascot? Ascot? No, he was wearin' it round his neck!"

Exactly right. He didn't understand, He didn't -- have Michael's brain -- uh -- for big deals.

Mike reminds me of Nicky Scarfo. His own paranoia is his downfall and he makes dumb decisions. I mean Roth pretty much owned mike throught Part 2 and he also helped turn a loyal guy like Frankie against him. I mean didnt mike realize that roth was gonna pull some shit at the sit down between Frankie and the rosato to make sure that Frankie thought mike turned against him. See without vito mike was a very flawed don