The Godfather Part III

I finished watching the Trilogy the other day, and I must say that despite the amout of criticisms I've read, I actually found GF III well done. It starts out as a reflection of GF I, that is, Anthony being like Michael was, wanting to go his own way, despite his father having his own plans for him. Vincent, like his father Sonny of course, is the hothead ready and willing to dive headlong into the Family. We also see the politics and intrigue of GF II present still, and Michael struggling to escape the Mafia life, because it has cost him so much already. The Trilogy has come full circle with the passing of the title of Don from Michael to Vincent, yet even in the end we see that nobody can completly escape La Cosa Nostra except through death. Plus by Vincent becoming the new Don, we see how someone who desired the position, i.e. Sonny, rather than someone who had it thrust upon him, i.e. Michael, handles things.

P.S. First post for me, hello everybody!

Hi welcome to the boards,Im also a fan of GF3,it doesn't deserve the critisism it gets

Welcome to the boards, LCN! Hope to see many thoughtful posts from you.
GFIII isn't a bad movie per se. It has some of the good elements of the other two. If I were rating it as a stand-alone, I'd give it 3 stars. The problem is that it is the denouement of a trilogy whose earlier two movies rate about fifty stars each.

I'd give it 8 out of 10 when it would be a movie on it's own.
When only comparing to Parts I and II, I'd give it a 4 out of 10.

I think it's probably because people had very high expectatons after watching the first two. The first two were brilliant films, but the third lacked the greatness of the first two. I'm actually quite a fan of the third film despite its criticisms ("EW" even named it one of the worst sequels of all time). As an individual film, I would give it about a 8.5-9/10. As a Godfather film, it's probably a 6/10. But still, one of my favorites. I was much more satisfied with the ending in Part III than the ones in Part I and Part II.

La Cosa Nostra -


Welcome to the boards. I happen to agree with you about GFIII. The movie has taken too much unwarrented critisim over the years, and is really not as terrible as many have made it out to be. I personaly enjoy GFIII.

Your post is a very good one and I sincerely am looking forward to your insights and views on The Godfather Trilogy.


Don Cardi

La Cosa Nostra

Welcome to the BB. The thing for me is I like pt.III but it is hard for me to understand the whole Imobile. deal. It's not my favorite of the 3 movies but when it comes on TV I'll watch it.

Just to echo the words of the others so far, LCN, so you don't feel alone in your views, especially if we start hearing from some members who say that GF III should have never been made, and then work their way downward from there.

On its own GF III is an excellent, if not great, film.

But unfortunately it can't help but be compared to the first two parts of the trilogy and, sadly, it's just not in the same class.

The problem is, for me at least, there's only one GF and GF II. Those two films stand alone in my mind as the two greatest cinematic achievements in history, so anything else, as good or as great as it may be, simply is not as good or great.

I was really disappointed in III probably it has to do with the fact that i watched the 3 movies in a row and i can't help but compare the last one with the previous two.

reasons for me not liking III (too many, but i'm only going to mention the ones i can think of right now):

-Vincent and the group of punks are very obnoxiously annoying
-no Tom Hagen
-not convincing: I don't believe Mike will let Kay have the children, I don't believe Mike won't remarry, I don't believe Mike will let Vincent be Don...
-Sophia Coppola...
-"I luv u, cuz..."

Well, the fact is that because it is named 'The Godfather, Part III', and is the 'final' installment of what has since been named a Trilogy, and was for so long desired and anticipated by fans of GF/GFII, it is going to, and should be, forever compared to the first two.

Just as GFII was and had to be compared to 'The Godfather'. Same director, producers, writers, much of the same cast, and a natural continuation (as well as prequel) of the story.

And while the main underlying story is indeed very interesting as pointed out by La Cosa Nostra in the opening post, there were completely avoidable factors of GFIII that helped to make it a lesser film and THAT is the shame. Such as:

1. The miscasting of Sofia Coppola; even with Wynona Ryder out, the part should've been given to a more experienced actress.

2. The fabrication of Vincent Mancini, when Michael had several other nephews (including at least one son of Sonny's) who if included in the story could have provided sufficient rivalry and intrigue with or without the presence of their bastard cousin.

3. The ridiculous love affair between first cousins.

4. The absense of Robert Duvall, and thus Tom Hagan, due at least in part (and shamefully) to salary disputes.

5. The casting of George Hamilton who, although quite debonair, easy on the eyes and sufficient enough as a B-movie actor, was simply unable to be taken seriously in a production of this magnitude. Hamilton's presense, perhaps even more so than Sofia's, was a detriment to the film.

6. The over-the-top acting of Al Pacino, probably the biggest disappointment of all after the subtle, chilling complexity of Michael Corleone in the first two films (especially GFII).

So yes, while 'on its own' it probably would be considered an excellent film, it will never really be 'on its own', unless remade someday featuring a Family NOT named Corleone, and a cast NOT led by Al Pacino, Diane Keaton, and Talia Shire.

Apple

1- Sofia? Agreed; she was terrible

2- Vincent? I liked his character. I found nothing wrong with the fabrication of new and interesting characters for the third installment. They did it in GF II with Pentangelli, Roth, Ola, etc. Vincent may not have been as interesting as Roth or Pentangelli but, as I say, I liked him and to me has was not one of the reasons III was a lesser film.

3- The love affair may be seen by some as ridiculous, but it was a rather unique and unexpected storyline.

I think the problem that people have with it is their overall objection in real-life to an affair between first cousins, rather than the cinematic portrayal of one.

4- Yes, the absence of Tom hagen was a major detriment to the film; in my mind, the biggest. You can't have a Godfather film without Tom Hagen. Case closed.

5- And George Hamilton as his replacement? Even sillier an idea than not having Tom in there. When you cmpare Pentangelli replacing Clemenza with B.J. Harrison replacing Tom Hagen, you have to laugh.

6- Al over the top? Nor really, IMO. The character was different. Michael, the man, had evolved. He wasn't meant to be chilling any longer. He was meant, I think, to be pitied - at least to the extent that you can feel pity for a first class son of a bitch like Michael Corleone.

Unique, unexpected and most of all, unnecessary. Just like Vincent. That character could have been implemented as any other of Michael's nephews...and while from what I can tell Connie is a supporter of Vincent throughout, it may have been interesting to see how she might have behaved if it were one (or both) of her own sons striving to one day become 'Don Corleone'.

But anyway, it's the way it is and too late to change anything and here we are some 15 years later still debating it just like various aspects of GF/GFII (Fredo didn't know). So in that way at least, it has earned its place as a valid part of The Trilogy!

Apple

I wish I could say I disagreed with you (just for the hell of it) about Fredo knowing but, much to my chagrin, I can't

Don't worry...I'm sure you'll get to disagree with me on something (and not 'just for the hell of it') in the very near future!!



Apple

Yes, The Godfather, Part III is flawed. But that makes me love it even more. Not more than the first 2 movies, but more than I should love it. It tried hard and succeeded on more levels than it failed. It could have been a lot worse, especially considering the amount of time that passed between parts 2 and 3.

And about the plot, I am wondering if it would have been more interesting to see Anthony make his way into the family, so that the trilogy would come full circle -- Michael was the one who was not supposed to become involved and now he experiences the same thing with Anthony. I imagine that the movie could have progressed the same way as it did, just with Anthony replacing Vincent for the most part and subtracting the love story, obviously. It was creepy enough with Vincent. I like the character of Vincent but I did feel it was a bit of a reach. All the sudden Sonny has an illegitimate son who can take over the family!

Other than that, I love the film. And the fan script I've been working on and off for about a year now involves Anthony becoming part of the family against Michael's wishes, amongst other things.

Puzo had a brother and sister do it in The Family so I think the Cousin thing was a little refreshing.

Refreshing if you happen to get kicks following the private lives of Puzo's relatives.

Ridiculous if you're going to put it in a sequel to not one but TWO classic films.

Apple

I think the incest relationship was supposed to prove a point, but whatever that point was, it ultimately failed to do so.

Good insight, I don't think anyone else has pointed that out before.

Pity Anthony follows through though whereas Michael gives in and joins the family business.

Thank goodness that he did join, otherwise we'd have no GF movie and these boards wouldn't exist!



Don Cardi

I dunno which I'd rather be: melancholy Don or mediocre opera singer.

Even a mediocre opera singer has to get some decent tail.

To be fair... it's the mediocre opera singer who makes the melancholy Don shed tears!

Maybe Michael was weeping because he was thinking, "He threw over law school for this strunz?

I'm watching GF3 right now and it's like I'm really seeing it for the first time, there are so many things I missed. Right now the part is on with him confessing to the cardinal..

That's one of my favorite scenes. That and when he kneels at Don Tommasino's coffin. Al Pacino was magnificent in those scenes.

I had never seen pIII until I purchased the DVD Trilogy a few months ago. I had to watch the first two before I could watch III. While it is not a horrible film, it certainly doesn't stand with I and II.

I agree with many of the opinions above on the Vincent character, although I think Andy Garcia was very good in it. There were so many options on who the successor to Michael could be, why create a totally new character?

You CANNOT have another installment of the Godfather without Tom Hagen! It gives you a horrible feeling when you realize he is not in the film right from the start. Tom is probably my favorite character in the first two films. It's very frustrating that it was all over money.
Couldn't they get someone better than George Hamilton? He seems so out of place.

Those are probably my two main gripes with it. I do like that Michael changes over time, allowing Kay to raise the children. I also like the ending. Having a major tragedy occur seems a fitting way to end the saga.

First post by the way, just found out about this great board.

I think the biggest problem with Part 3 is that its about the Corleone Family. If it were about a different Mob Family i think it would be a better movie - not that it isn't a good movie, but its weighed down by the anticpation you get if you have watched Parts 1 and 2.

Having said that - i would love to sit and do a comparison between the two movies. For instance - Joey Zaza and Don Fanucci both murdered at the same ceremony (forgive someone born Catholic - i can't remember the exact name of the ceremony) but Fanucci was killed in Part 2 with a certain amount of style by young Vito - Zaza is just brutally gunned down.

And the deaths of Vito and Michael - while both being similar (both men of violence dying in decidedly un violent circumstances) i can't help but be reminded that Vito dies while playing with his grandson and Michael dies, presumably an embittered old man.

I am sure there are other similarities between Part 3 and the other two movies.

Part 3, i believe, is on AMC again tomorrow night. I'll be watching.