Clemenza's role for GF2

I've read many posts here that Richard C. was supposed to be in GF2, and if following the script, it indeed would have been Clemenza ratting on Michael during the congressional hearings.

Is that the reason why Richard C. did not sign on to do part 2? That he didn't want the character of Clemenza to actually turn traitor? Or was it just money issues?

I've not read of anything to that effect. Maybe TB has. It was probably just money. But I doubt that the storyline would have been the same.

Nothing that I've ever read suggested that Castellano didn't play Clemenza in II because he didn't approve of Clemenza turning traitor. It was money, plus his demand that his girlfriend, Ardell Sheridan, to write dialog for him.

That's the explanation I heard too. As far as I know, Clemenza's role in GFII was supposed to be identical or very similar to Pentangeli.

So, ultimately, had Richard Castellanos agreed to the film, it would have been Clemenza who refused the Rosattos and would have gotten strangled? Do you folks here think that Michael would have really let Roth think he would whack Clem so easily? After all, they had a lost of history and I doubt Mike would clip Clem just because an outsider to the family wanted him to.

Again, I think the storyline would have been different.

I also heard something that FFC wanted Castellano to regain 50 pounds he lost for the role, I dont know how true it is.

That's what his wife (who also played Clemenza's wife (Dontforgertthecannoli) claims in her book.

I wonder how different? The general premise, I think, would have been the same, but with there obviously had to have been tweaking in the script to establish Pentangeli.

I think the main storyline of Pentangeli would have been the same. However, what we would see with Clemenza in it, would be more the tragic story of an anti-hero: Clemenza helped Vito in his early crime career and was a trusted and loyal friend and capo, he became a father figure for young Michael. Imagine Clemenza in the courtroom, looking at his brother, becoming nervous, etc. Imagine if we saw Tom talking to Clemenza instead of Pentangeli about history. Michael's guilt woul be heavier, his soul even darker.

Danito, that would have been a much more emotionally intense storyline that would have evoked alot of nostalgic concern among viewers for Pete. Afterall, he is like family. I think though that there would have been a scene between Mike and Pete where all of what you posted about Coeleone history would have come up afterwhich Pete commits suicide rather than betray Vito's memory. Wow, the pathos!

Olivant & Danito; thank you for painting this vivid image of complexity... my next viewing of GFII will be a much richer experience.

Yeah, it's so sad to read Ardell Sheridan's book. After Castellano got sick, she got mind-trapped in some conspiracy theory. In her book she printed both FFC's letters to convince Castellano and her weird responses. Funny though that she seems to believe that FFC's letters would prove how mean he was. It's a shame that FFC didn't just take a plane to speak to Castellano personally.
Also, the part of the book where she's writing about acting and writing is very convincing.

One piece of dialogue slipped into GFII that was probably meant for Clemenza. It is the scene in which Tom eases Pentangeli into comitting suicide. Tom mentions to Frank something about how much he always loved history and credits him for having the opinion they should have stopped Hitler
in 1933. That was taken from The Godfather scene in which Clemenza is teaching Mike how to shoot the pistol. During it he makes some comment that they should have stopped Hitler after Munich.

OMG DT, you are absolutely right!
Fantastic observation power, congratulations!

DT, you sure about Frankie's Hitler reference?

Olivant:
DT is right.... dialogue below:

TOM

Frankie -- you were always interested in politics -- and history. I remember you calling about Hitler back in '33.

PENTANGELI

I'd still be alive -- I did good stuff in there.

Both he and Clemenza were probably Democrats since Republicans were for the most part isolationists until Pearl Harbor.