How Dumb Was Woltz?

After Tom informs Woltz about his client being able to make union problems go away, and about his contract star moving from marijuana to heroin, Woltz goes into his famous tirade telling off his "kraut-mick friend." Immediately afterwords he tells his employee to "check him out." In the next scene at Woltz' place he tells Tom he had no idea he worked for Corleone, and asks "why didn't you tell me," aying he thought Tom was some "two bit hustler" that Johnny was using to muscle him. Leter that evening when Woltz delivers his second tirade
he tells Tom "an I ain't no band leader....yeah I heard that story." My question is if Woltz knew Johnny was backed up by Vito Corleone, why would he think Johnny would bother running in some "two bit Hustler" when he was backed by the most powerful Don in the country? Further, I see why Wotlz would invite Tom over once he found out who he worked for, but did he really think he could talk his way out of this? He seems to be playing it cool when he says he would do any other favor asked of him, but when Tom says Vito never asks for a second favor after a refusal, he has to know Vito will not take this lightly. Did he really think he could keep Vito off his case simply by telling that he was tougher than a guy who had a gun put to his head with the promise that his brains or his signature would be on a contract? If so, I think Woltz' brain was going soft from all that comedy he was playing with that young girl.

That's not only one of my favorite scenes, but it was the first long piece of dialog (monologue?) that I memorized from the movie. However, it wasn't until I read the novel that I understood Woltz's stubborn refusal to give Johnny the movie role...and it's in the novel where you'll find the answer.

When Woltz says, "I ain't no bandleader," he sums up his closing argument to Tom and you could reasonably infer what the novel makes explicit -- Woltz (immovable object) believes he is Vito's equal (unstoppable force) and is openly challenging Vito with his refusal to give Johnny the role. He's saying to to Vito through Tom, "What's he gonna do, whack me because I wouldn't give an acting part to Johnny?"

This was really a high-stakes game of chicken between Woltz and the Corleones...and Woltz ultimately blinked first.

There are a number of stories where the novel provides a detailed explanation but somehow doesn't create the same impact as presented on the screen. Similarly, the movie leaves a lot of questions unanswered because it's so difficult for a screenwriter, director, and group of actors to convey a thought process the same way it's detailed in a book. Woltz's rationale is detailed nicely in the book, but Coppola's movie scenes and the iconic horse's head are the explanation point to Puzo's writing.

tony b.

Thank you for the dinner and very pleasant evening.

Tom didn't tell Woltz who his client was when he approached him on the movie set. Woltz only learned about Vito after one of his associates checked Tom out. So, it's not totally implausible that Woltz first thought Tom might have been a two-bit hustler from Johnny.

Tom also wondered why Woltz would invite him for a tour of his estate and dinner if he knew he was going to turn down the request to give Johnny the part. Once again, the novel provides the key detail, when Woltz says, at dinner:

"I'm sorry, the answer is still no. But since you're here, what will it cost me to have that labor problem cleared up. In cash. Right now?"

The novel has Woltz telling Tom that J. Edgar Hoover is a personal friend of his. What was really dumb was that Woltz thought his friendship with the FBI chief would scare off Vito. After he wakes up with the horse's head, Woltz finally realizes, "What was the penalty for killing a horse in California?"

Funny that Woltz thought he could scare Tom with H. Edgar, who was not all that interested in the mob. He was too busy chasing real and imaginary commies. I wonder if the Vito Corleones of the world knew about J. Edgar's dressing habits and blackmailed him.

...and playing the horses, ironically.

True. He loved the ponies.

And the interesting thing, IMO, was that he got tips on fixed races from FBI agents. He had to have known that the tips came from criminal sources, but he just ignored that part. He was a small-time bettor, anyway.
Hoover was a lifelong bachelor who shared his home with Clyde Tolson, his second-in-command. He's had several competent biographers, all of whom tried to check out rumors that he was gay. They weren't able to prove it--which doesn't mean he wasn't gay, just that they found no evidence to prove it. The dressed-in-drag photo is probably a fiction.

All true, Turnbull but still I can't resist this imaginary dialogue:

Vito - Tom what did you find out in Hollywood?
Hagen -Well for one thing he is sleeping with a 13 year old actress. His butler was pretty quick to re-fill my wine glass, and his prized posession is a horse he is putting out to stud.
Vito - That's an infamnia about the girl. What else.
Hagen - He claims to have close ties to J. Edgar Hoover and he went out of his way to tell me he heard about the story about Luca and that bandleader, and that he wasn't afraid of you.
Vito - J Edgar Hoover is a Washington Finocchio who dresses like a woman.
Tom - Not only that but they say he only allows his driver to make right hand turns.
Vito - What else do you know about Hoover?
Tom - Our people in Baltimore say he loves horse racing. They give him tips on fixed races, and he has the man he lives with go and place $2 bets. He never goes to the window himself.
Vito - You say Hoover likes horses?
Tom - That's what I undertand.
Vito - Maybe we can send this Hollywood big shot and Mr. Hoover a message at the same time.

Aha! So that's why they beheaded the horse??

Woltz was very dumb.

I think this has been discussed before in a thread about the type of airplane Tom flew in, but it appears to me, from the movie, that Luca Brasi must have accompanied Tom to Hollywood since the horse was killed the very night that Tom flew back to NYC. No?

This has been covered, and the consensus is that Vito pulled some strings and had Tom fly on some kind of government or military plane.

In the saga and I think in the book also, Tom comes back to report to Vito what he found out, and then they make the plan and send Luca out there. In the movie it looks like the horse died the next morning.

The novel states that Tom used his connection with the military to get priority booking. In the movie he flies a TWA Constellation.

Where does Luca come in?

Luca killed the horse.

Yes, he did and with good justification. His role as a big shot Hollywood producer afforded him much more protection (both legal and physical) than some 2-bit bandleader. Although it's not necessary in the film, as Turnbull points out there is detail in the novel that shows why Woltz would believe he had nothing to fear from Vito Corleone.

But as Turnbull also points out...the that the Corleone Family would be able to get to him at the expense of his beloved Khartoum was the absolute farthest thing from Woltz's mind.

There's a great passage in the novel, one of my favorites, that describes the absolute spin Woltz's head was in after the murder of Khartoum. He was absolutely ... ... !!

Later, Woltz called Bruno Tattaglia and Sollozzo and asked them to kill Luca as a revenge. Now, the whole film seems to make sense.

What is your basis for that conclusion?

He is the only one strong enough to cut off a horses head fast enough to have it in Woltz's bed by morning

Tessio and Clemenza have 1,000 soldiers in their regimes, not to mention Sonny's regime. The Molinari family also has its compliment of soldiers and is in proximity to Woltz. So, Luca wins the Mafia Strong Man competition, huh?

yes, the time that is takes for a normal person to cut off a big horses head, would be about 3 - 4 hours, the sun was just rising and that is about 6:00 Am, to be completely inconspicuous he would have started at 4:30 in the morning

plus if Woltz was as paranoid as he was said to be, a whole team of men would be very easily noticed by the stable guards and the other guards

All this goes under the heading of: Things the audience need not worry about, not if they have lives, anyway.

Of course in a Family such as The Corleones, there would've been PLENTY of strongmen on the payroll, just as able as Luca to kill the horse, sever the head and deliver it to Woltz's room in time for him to awaken. In fact, such an achievement would probably have had to be completed by a team, not just one man no matter how big & tough.

But who cares!? The who/how/how long it took aspect of the horse's head incident is simply not important. What's important is that it got there, and it got Vito Corleone what he wanted.

Apple

This is the funniest post in recent times

It wouldn't take 3-4 hours to cut off a big horses head with a pole axe! I'm sure that's what Luca used to save time.

it's true, they ran a special on The Godfather a while ago, and that is how long it would take

You are all wrong. Luca garrotted the horse (as was to be done to him later). He used a special sharp wire that was so strong it beheaded Khartoum in 3 minutes, still a world record.

I heard that, during its death, Khartoum kicked through the stable's walls in desperate fury, as Luca hung on with all his might, much like Carlo would with the car windscreen.

You're all wrong.

Luca was a heavy bettor at the track and he lost a bundle when his horse, Frau Bleucker, lost to Khartoum by a head. Infuriated, Brasi took his revenge by punching Khartoum in the head so hard that he beheaded the horse. Hollywood producer Woltz, never one to lose a filming opportunity, later re-enacted that scene in "Blazing Saddles".

"Telegram for Mongo..."

"Mongo like Don Corleone."