Tom - Pentangeli scene

The scene where Tom persuades Pentangeli to consider suicide is shot entirely from outside the fence. Do you think FFC had any special reason for doing so or was it just that he didn't have enough space to put his camera inside ?

Since Frankie was "on ice" on the Air Force base, they wouldn't let FFC's crew near him--a crew member might be a Corleone assassin.

They would not let him get close to those cuban cigars.

The scene was shot through the fence to illustrate the fact that Frankie was trapped with nowhere to turn.

What a strange scene it was, on reflection. "Yeah, but only the big guys". Wasn't Frankie a "big guy", he was the head of the family in New York! Why did he have to take a hot bath like one of the "little guys"?

Yes, but made the mistake of betraying his Padrone, Michael Corleone. And because he was the head of a family, and had deep history with The Corleones, he was given the curteousy of being granted the opportunity to redeem himself and save his family from shame and monetary loss by "taking that hot bath."

Don Cardi

On a related note, even though the majority of GF II is devoted to showing how ruthless and calculating Michael had become since his college boy days of Godfather I, don't you think his allowing Pentangelli the opportunity to attone for his betrayal on his own terms shows that he still had some compassion left inside him. Tessio had an even deeper history with the Corleone Family than Pentangelli had, and Michael had no problem ordering his violent death. While it is true that Michael never really had any "business" relationship with Tessio like he would have had with Pentangelli, I still think he would have given Tessio the chance to attone for his disloyalty out of respect for his father. In a sense, by showing this "softer" side of Michael(if you can call ordering someone to kill themselves soft ) makes it seem at least plausible that his character could have undergone the transformation it did from the absolute killer of Part II to the old man who just wanted out in Part III. He was still cold-blooded, but at least the seed of the Part III penance he seeks was planted at the end of Part II.

Somehow I think that Hagen had a lot to do with the decision to allow Frankie to atone for his sin of betrayal.
I also think that Michael realized that he indirectly put Frankie in that position of betrayal because of the whole Roth scenerio.

Don Cardi

Uh, guys...
The only reason Michael gave Frankie the "opportunity" to "atone" was because, as Hagen said, "the FBI had him airtight on an Air Force base...no way we can get to him." Michael wanted Frankie dead, plain and simple. Since he couldn't arrange for Frankie to be assassinated, he instead had Tom convince Frankie to kill himself. And there was an implicit threat: Kill yourself and your family will be taken care of. Don't kill yourself, and...

Ok, that's more accurate Turnbull. I forgot about that line about Frankie and not being able to get to him.

Time for me to watch GFII again I guess.


Don Cardi

Yeah, I agree. Also, Tessio had betrayed not only Michael but Vito. Then too Frankie was a Don and had a family and Michael was able to leverage that.

I also agree with Turnbull's explanation for Pentangelli's offer. Damn, and I thought I was finally on to something.

Dr, this seems like a reasonable explanation. I too feel the same way.

The thing that really confuses me about that whole scene is the fact that, while pentangelli is supposedly 'airtight' on the air force base, the FBI and whoever else is keeping him there appear to have no qualms over letting the corleone family's consiglieri in to see him!

Mattress-
I think Tom was Frankie's lawyer at that point, because now Frankie was going to get tried for purjury because of his "sudden change of heart".......Tom probably thought the room would be bugged and insisted on seeing Frankie outside for privacy.

No, Tom was just an emissary.

Well, remember that Tom was the legitimate arm of the family. He had no problem getting meetings with people such as Woltz. He was not the muscle end of the business. I'm sure that he could've gotten an appointment with Frankie under the guise of attorney, or even as a friend, since Frankie seemed sincerely happy to see him. Once Frankie was "outed" at the trial (until that time, the Corleone Family thought he was dead), perhaps he was allowed visitors. He may have even welcomed the meeting with Tom, since he might have wanted to make a deal.

I would think that it would make sense that they would bring up charges on Frankie for his lying.....and it would make sense for Tom, being a lawyer, to represent him at his hearing. I could be wrong, but I thought that is what it said in the novel.....I do not remember very well though.
It is the only reason that I can think of that would allow for them to meet alone, outside, with out someone listening. He was in a maximum protection facility....it would only make sense right??? Maybe they had some connections or something.

As Frankie's lawyer Tom would have had access to him. What is masterful about the scene is how Tom leads Frankie to the conclusion that he had to kill himself, first by telling him how he admires his grasp of history and then by moving the conversation to how the Corleones were like the Roman Empire, and what happened when a plot against the king failed. Notice how Frankie wants to make sure about the deal because when he talks about how people's families were spared if the plotters killed themselves, he says something like "yeah but that was only for the big shots." Then Tom says to Frankie "You have nothing to worry about." This confirmed to Frankie that if he did the right thing his family would thrive (I would suppose that it did because Michael was pretty honorable about such things)

Yeah that's all well and good (thanks for the informative replies as well), but the FBI clearly thought Tom was the Corleone family's consiglieri as he was shown as such on their 'crime family tree' at the senate hearings

Yes, indeed, mattress. That point's well taken. Tom was not Frankie's lawyer, he was Michael's lawyer. And the chart exhibited at the Senate hearing did show him as the family consigliere, making him a part of the criminal conspiracy. If it were real life, it's probable that the government wouldn't have let him within 10 miles of Frankie. But we must give FFC artistic license...Tom's presence made it one of the most powerful scenes in GFII. It wouldn't have had anywhere near the same impact if Frankie had simply killed himself without being talked to by Tom.