Pentangeli Smart or Not?

Early in GF II Pentangeli comes off as a not too bright successor to Clemenza. He drinks from a hose, complains that there are no Italians in the orchestra, thinks canapes is a
"can of peas" thinks champagne is "champagne cocktails." He also gets drunk and pretty much makes an ass of himself. Then when Michael surprises him in New York he doesn't understand why Michael wants him to pretend he is friendly to the Rosato Brothers because he claims he doesn't have Mike's brain for "big deals." As the movie progresses, however, he suddenly becomes wiser and more intelligent. When his brother shows up at the hearing, he understands exactly what he has to do, which is deny that Michael was a crime boss. He does this without any coaching at all. Then at the end when Hagen leads him into the idea of suicide, they talk extensively about how Frankie was against appeasement of Hitler in the 30's and about details of Roman History (Clemenza, who is also considered dumber than Tessio was also on to Hitler early on). Tom compliments Frankie on his knowledge of history and Frankie replies that he still reads it all the time and that he gets "good stuff" (meaning reading materials) at the Army base. So whats the deal? Is Pentangeli the buffoon we see in the beginning of the movie or the shrewd underboss we see at the end?

He was an old timer, a street guy.

Let's face it, the FIRST time that we watched GFII, many of us could not understand why Michael wanted him to pretend that he is friendly to the Rosato Brothers!

And keep in mind that Frankie was probably a loyal soldier to Clemenza, and being the old school italian that he was probably loved Clemenza. So his feelings and loyalty to Clemenza got in the way and he wanted to avenge Clemenza's death, heart attack or not, by getting back at the Rosato brothers.

Michael was not the most trusting person in the world. He was not one to share his plans with those close to him, except for Neri. Michael could have reached out to Pentangeli before the kid's communion, and told Pentangeli that something was in the works that would benefit the Corleone family as a whole ("you're family is still called Corleone") and maybe Pentangeli would have kept a much lower profile.

The more I think about it the more I realize that Michael, being the egotistical and untrusting cold hearted bastard that he was, caused those around him to crack and crumble because of his lack of diplomacy to his own people. While he may have been the saviour of the family in GFI, he certainly became the destroyer of it by the end of GFII.

I don't think that it was so much that Pentangeli was dumb, just think that he was kept a little too much in the dark.

In many ways, people tend to be smarter when they are younger despite the knowlege they accumulate as they grow older. That is because their minds are, physiologically, more active. As we get older, there are issues of blood flow to the brain, and nervous system deterioration. Our reactions slow down, our cognition is not as good, even our speech slows down. So, like us all, in his younger days, Frankie was more on top of things so he was able to come up with suggestions about the organizaion of the crime families, etc. Memory does not necessarily have to fade as one gets older, so Frankie is going to remember a heck of alot of what he had previously learned, read, etc.

His drinking from a hose, etc. was a function of his upbringing in the milieu of cultures that is NY: informaility, if you will. His NY domain required that he be phyisically aggressive, not necessarily wise. That domain also subsumed various threats, even to family members. When backed into a corner, Michael threatened Frankie's brother. Now, such a threat is not that difficult to perceive. He's not a buffoon; he's sinply a product of his culture and experience which, sometimes, sharply contrasts with others' cultures and experiences.

Good point. What this says is there was great irony in Michael's statement during his rebellious period: "I will never be a man like my father" turned out to be true.

Thank you Dr. Melfi!






You elaborated on what I was trying to say in the first comment in my post above, and I agree. :

Olivant, I had to get a professor of psychology to comprehend your post. I don't have your brain for big deals. My point is that Frankie seemed to gain more wisdom and maturity toward the end of the film than he displayed at the beginning. It was like he was a different personality. Maybe thats what Federal Custody and knowledge of your impending death does.

I think that, in Frankie's case, we may be mistaking "uneducated" for "not so bright". Frankie may have been a bit rough around the edges, but that doesn't make him stupid.

Well, yeah. We are expected to gain more wisdom and to become more mature as we grow older. Babe has a good point. Frankie probably had no more han a HS education if even that. But his street education gave him the tools to operate successfully until he made mistakes, which we all do (even me). Since we don't know what his personality was in his yunger years, we don't know if it changed. As you live your life you encounter different situations to which you react with the tools you have. As time goes by, you gain experience. One experieince is the realization that you get one life to live - that's all.

Maybe Winegardner knows!

We know a little about him. He grew up in a two mule town in Sicily. He must have been in his late teens or even early twentieswhen he came to the US because we know that his brother decided to stay in Sicily, and never wanted to come here. So if he spent his formative years there, he probably got "connected" and perhaps had something to do with Don Tomassino who sent him to America to start with the Corleones. This may mean he had little or no formal education other than grade school in Sicily.
He was probably self taught in English, and eventually became a voracious reader. But nevertheless he didn't have a brain for big deals.

Yep Frankie may not have gone to university but was smart enough to be a Capo of the corleone regime and a figure head in New york. He was probably street wise too. The only problem was that Mike and Roth were much smarter and had much more power then Frankie, they pulled the strings and as DC said Mike left Frankie out of the cold, so Frankie didnt know what was going on.

The only thing Frankie cared about was nailing the Rosoto Brothers but things didnt work out that way as Roth had other confusing plans.

Frankie was smart just not as smart as the the big guns.

DT, you omitted my favorite Frankie-ism, his redundant placing of Lake Tahoe in the "Sierra Mountains."

I don't think he really changes all that much. He's just flawed, and the flaws happen to manifest themselves more at the beginning - when he's a bit out of his depth - than at the end, when he's been defeated.

He wasn't smart to go against the Corleones,full stop.

Ahh, but Roth played that one beautifully!

You pose an interesting question, dt. But I don't see a conflict in his behavior, or even a sharp transition:
For dramatic effect, Frankie was a bit broadly portrayed at the party. I think the buffoonish behavior was FFC's way of contrasting Michael's "swell" and "legitimate" pose at Anthony's party with a stark reminder of where his roots were. It was, in effect, another example of Michael's struggle to bridge two worlds--the estates of Nevada and the streets of New York. Frankie was also there to emphasize another Michael transition--trusting Roth rather than "your own kind."
Frankie was acutely aware of his own limitations--"I, I don't have your head for the big deals..." That's probably one of the reasons Michael chose him to succeed Clemenza. But it didn't mean he was dumb. I was pleased, but not surprised, that he knew the jig was up as soon as he saw his brother sitting next to Michael. His history reading wasn't a surprise either--he had a lot of time on his hands on that Air Force base. And, reading history told him what he needed to do to make sure his family was taken care of. It's among the many reasons why Frankie is my favorite character in the Trilogy.

True Dc,but eventually,it led to his downfall.

Old school. A street guy.

I was really just making the quote. But since you borugh it up...

Was it really Frankies fault? Once again I blame Michael for Pentangeli turning on him. Michael basically brought it on himself ( see my reasons in my original post above.)

And Michael literally brushed Frankie off : "Let him go back to New York -- I've already made my plans. That old man had too much wine."

That line indicates to me that Michael did not respect Pentangelli like he should have. It was indicative of how Michael no longer considered those who were around him from the begining, and stood loyal to him, to be of any importance in being part of his quest for legitimacy!

As Turnbull so brilliantly pointed out, "It was, in effect, another example of Michael's struggle to bridge two worlds--the estates of Nevada and the streets of New York."

Michael did not want the old school people like Pentangeli around to "embarass" him. Michael fooled himself into believing that surrounding himslef with the new "society" people made him less of a gangster and more of a businessman.

Maybe he was really the one that was being nieve.

I wouldnt chartacterize Rocco and Neri as "society people," but I get the point. Frankie was ....as Kate might put it... a common Mafia Hood... a guy from the streets.

I do think his character changed in the film...keep in mind that he was misled to think Michael puit a hit on him, meaning he spend a lot of time thinking he'd been betrayed. He then broke Omerta for a deal he came to regret and on which he renegged, and in effect he died a broken man. So in all the happy go lucky Frankie who was up on the bandstand looking for an Italian musician became a somber, reflective student of history who "saved" his family and its honor by slashing his wrists.

TB you are correct to note what a great character he is. Frank is truly a tragic character in the classic sense.

Look at the kind of people that were sitting on the Tahoe grounds for Anthony's communion. Even Anthony tells him that he didn't know the people there who gave his presents.

You can even go one step further ( TB and I have talked about this comparison several times) and watch the opening scene of Connie's wedding and compare it to the opening scene of Anthony's communion.

Sonny spitting on law enforcement badges at Connie's wedding. Michael having champagne cocktails brought out to law enforcement at his son's communion.

Stracci, Cuneo, Barzini, Tattaglia, Clemenza, Tessio, etc. all partying out in the open and dancing at Connie's wedding. An old Italian band playing the music.

Senetor and Mrs. Geary, The Boys Chior, High Class Flamingo dancers, Mr. Hughes*, Mrs. Astor*, etc. all sitting properly out in the open at Anthony's communion while Rocco, Neri and the other soldiers stood basically out of sight. A forty two piece "orchestra" providing the music.


*Hughes and Astor names used just for an example of high society people.

Good point again DC,but he did,or was,going to testify against Mike,he must have known,even with the protection,that he would be able to "get to".

I don't know,i never saw him as smart.

He ran on emotion..."lets hit em now ,while we have the muscle"

A bit like Vito not wanting Luca there in his daughters wedding day.

Again, that was the old school loyalty in him. Someone had attempted to kill his Don, the Don of the Corleone family that he was a part of for so many years. So he wanted to now protect his Don, take revenge on behalf of his Don. Remember, in his mind the Corelones were like The Roman Empire.

But there is a fine line between love and hate.

Frankie was loyal to The Corleones / Michael. Michael basically brushed him off, didn't show him the proper respect under old school rules and kept him waiting in a lobby.

Michael tells him to make peace with the Rosatos without really going into detail. He basically tells him that he wants to deal with Hyman Roth, another guy that Frankie didn't trust, and then sends Frankie on his way.

Frankie had to feel slighted. Had to have some kind of suspicions at this point. But he was old school, so he stayed loyal.

Then he tells Frankie to go meet with the Rosatos and make peace. He tells Frankie that an attempt was made on his life BUT he doesn't want to retaliate. This was not old school Cosa Nostra as far as Frankie was concerned. But he followed his Don's orders anyway because he was old school loyal.

Frankie really must have some kind of doubts now. Really must have felt that Michael was up to something with Roth. But he stays loyal and follows his Don's orders anyway and goes to make peace with the Rosatos.

And what Happens. And attempt is made on Frankies life. And during that attempt he's given a message that Michael Corleone was behind this attempt being made on his life! And he's left to die. Picked up by the authorities and charged with all kinds of crimes. In his mind he stayed loyal all along and still his Don betrayed him.

So after all of these little things that happened between this old school mafioso and his new world boss, and then being told that it was his boss, who sent him out on this mission of peace, who now set him up, it's not inconceivable to turn.

When you really think about it, after all that happened with he and Michael, after being left for dead by the person that you were there for in the first place, and now being charged with all kinds of crimes, it was really the smart move on Frankie's part to turn witness. What other choice did Michael really leave him?

Frankie's "buffoonery" at the 1st Communion party was brought on entirely by drunkeness. When he showed up to see Mike, he was insulted that he had to wait in line, just like every body else. While waitng, he drank himself into a stupor, and was awaken by Cicci when Fredo showed up.

Now, let's try to be accurate. There is nothing in any scene to indicate that he drank himself into a stupor. He was complaining about waiting in line. Even Connie told her mother that she didn't want to wait in line. Nothing surprising about such a complaint. As some have already posted and as I posted, Frankie was a NY wiseguy who was used to the old school ways, used to Italian food, used to Italian music, ansd wanting to give his enemies as good as he expected they'd give him. There's nothing unexpected about his behavior or words.

Excellent analysis, DC! I look for a real-life parallel:
Joe Valachi was a loyal Mob guy, though not high up. He went to prison on a dope rap at about the same time as did Vito Genovese. But when Genovese turned on him, he was driven to murder another inmate whom he thought Genovese had sent to kill him. With his back to the wall--in effect, "half-dead, scared, talkin' out loud about how [Genovese] betrayed him"--and with nothing to lose and nothing to look forward to, Valachi turned rat. I think FFC had him in mind--the Senate hearing scene was a perfect model of the Valachi hearings, right down to the family charts:

http://www.gangrule.com/gallery/maps.html

(scroll to the bottom)

Turnbull, that's why over the years, when others on here have said that Willie Cicci was modeled after Valachi, I've disagreed somewhat and felt that Pentangeli was more modeled after Valachi than Cicci.

Don't stop there, take the next step and make those comparisions with GFIII when Mike included high ranking bishops into his circle of friends.

Good point. Michael, as you correctly pointed out, makes another step in trying to look legitimate in surrounding himself with Bishops and Cardinals. He even has a "press agent" on staff.

The only reason that I did not go into GFIII was because Pentangeli was the center of this discussion. But you are correct in your observation.

"Your father did business with Hyman Roth, your father respected Hyman Roth, but your father never trusted Hyman Roth, or his Sicilian messenger boy Johnny Ola."

A pretty prescient warning for a "dummy."

Ditto!

Like many others here, I never saw Frankie Five Angels as being stupid. Coarse, perhaps, and without the veneer of the graceful (yet hypocritical) socialite, for sure. But he wasn't really stupid.

He was the successor to Clemenza, and truly stupid people do not make it to the level of caporegime. He was a street guy, yes, and he probably even felt a certain degree of disdain for those who pretend to be somehow "better" than a street soldier. I have known men who shunned the pretensions of self-styled intellectuals and socialites altogether and who knew that this was what they were doing. They did so intentionally, sometimes to hide their true shrewdness behind a clumsy facade-- and at other times in an effort to stage a subtle rebellion against others whom they saw as phonies.

I think that he was cut from the same bolt of cloth as his former boss, and that his true strength was of a more tactical, less strategic, sort of outlook. He himself told Michael, "I don't -- look -- I don't have your brain -- uh -- for big deals -- but this is a street thing." But then he shows a great deal of insight and awareness by following this declaration up with the statement, "That Hyman Roth in Miami -- he's backing up those son of a bitches."

I would respectfully submit that these are not the words of some ignorant buffoon. Frankie was razor-sharp, and never mind his rough-hewn mannerisms. As far as the canapes question is concerned, I think he was just making a very clever and extremely funny joke... a wonderful play on words.

He probably knew all about the Romans because the subject interested him and because it was a matter of pride and heritage to him. He might have faltered if you asked him a question about Kafka (while the likes of Crazy Joe Gallo could have remarked intelligently about this subject, which apparently interested him), but no, Frankie was no fool.

For sure, Frankie could have a guy killed with relative ease. Look at how old he was before he was ever nailed on anything substantial-- and only after being the primary informant against himself-- yet, we know for sure that he was a killer and a really tough old bird who had been operating for years.

I always liked Frankie and Pete Clemeza better than even Vito Corleone, and way better than I ever liked Michael. Their ambitions might not have been so lofty, but they were more true to their original code.

Near the end of his life, Vito rambled to Michael about not being subject to the whims of "those big shots", while apparently overlooking the fact that he was himself a big shot. But Vito and Michael seemed to need something more than just the honor (and loot) they received by being a part of their regime. They aspired towards political power and a sort of overlordship that I don't think Clememza or Frankie were ever interested in.

All of which is to say, in answer to dontomasso's original question:

I think that Frankie was indeed the shrewd underboss we saw at the end. And I think he was also a shrewd underboss at the very beginning of the movie too... we just didn't have a chance to understand this about him yet because he hadn't been fully developed as a character at that point in the film.

Those canopies and Frankies reference to them and peppers and sauseege was a symbolism of sorts.

I think that it was inserted in the script by FFC to symbolize the conversion Michael had made between GF and GFII, and at the same time how an old timer like Frankie did not embrace this "new, modern" style that Michael had chosen.

That line was another way of showing us how Michael was looking to rid himself of the "old world" illegitimacy back east and forge ahead towards legitimacy by injecting himself into a higher society.

I never really considered this before, Don Cardi, but now that you've brought it to my attention I think I would have to agree!

Thanks for the insight!

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I thought that perhaps Michael brought Frankie's brother in to threaten him at first, but then after reading The Godfather and The Sicilian novels I thought maybe Michael brought Frankie's brother in to shame him into not testifying against Michael and breaking Omerta. Recall the look between the two brothers at the hearing. To me, Frankie's brother looks absolutely shocked at what Frankie is about to do. Remember how old school Sicilian Frankie's brother is and in The Sicilian, they say that breaking Omerta "the code of silence" which includes ratting out other mafia guys, is something you absolutely do not do. Supposedly, your own family would have to help hunt you down for breaking Omerta.

Yes, shame, a minimalist approach that would leave nothing but memories in its wake. But, what if shame didn't work? Was Michael going to say "Darn, I thought that would keep him from testifying. Shucks, now what are we going to do?" Frankie got the shame message, but he also got the "I know who and where your brother" is message. Remember, Vito Genovese had a guy murdered because he wanted to that guy's wife. Rules do get broken especially when it is the Don's butt on the line.

Frankie was 'street smart'. As other have said, an 'old timer' in his way of thinking and fighting. He admitted he didn't have Michael's (or Roth's) head for 'big deals'. That was what lead to his downfall.

But yes, as he proves in the end by the way he accepts and in effect takes charge of his fate, as well as the future of his family...he was most certainly in the general configuration of things...smart.

Apple

Frank had his own family so he couldn't have been too dumb. Paulie...now he was stupid. I think Frank is awesome and Wallach is an excellent actor. He was nominated for awards for this small role.

I think that case has been pretty well made by the posters above that Frankie had street smarts. In his role as family Don, he didn't necessarily have to exhibit strategic thinking.

The negative comments about Wallach are also not necessarily about his performance. It's just that I and others don't picture about him as a mob guy. The closest he came to such a role in the past, I believe, was as the head of forty Mexican bandits in The Magnificent Seven.

100% agree I love Frankie!
Go to the thread "The Scene That Always Chokes Me Up" I posted the Senate Committie

Watching the Saga over this weekend, I finally saw the back story of why Frankie was drinking water from a hose. When a waiter approached him with a "champagne cocktail," Frankie asked if there was any red wine or beer because his throat was "parched." Thats when Cicci got the hose.

Another great Frankie scene is when he comes home and gets the news that Michael has been waiting there for a half an hour. Quickly he takes off his overcoat and just before he goes into see Michael he slicks his hair back with his hands....great gesture.

Yeah, I love that one too!...Slicks his hair back with his hands! What a excellent character he portrayed in the film.
It is a shame there was not more of Frankie in the film, more of a story of how he entered the family!
I just love Frankie Five Angels