Tom Hagen's "Death"

Part III, Tom Hagen is dead. How did he die? Was it natural causes? Was he killed? What exactly happened to him? (Other than the fact the Robert Duval didn't want to be in Part III)



What do you guys think?

I understand it was never made clear how Tom died. Just that Michael mentioned he wished Tom had lived to see his son become a priest.

(Another dopey fabrication).

Apple

PS - you're right, Camillus, I'm all over the place today!!!

Hi,
I think someone here mentioned Tom died of cancer.

Paul

You are doing a great job Apple...keep things even ....I'll just sit on the sidelines and watch for a while...

I thought it was a car accident. Though Paul, your probably right. You always are.

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Naw, naw, dat was no car accident.....

I suspect foul play. Seems fishy his son became a priest instead of a lawyer, too.

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Hmmm....The Don had plans for Mike's future, but look how that turned out. Just a guess here, Tom probably advised his son NOT to become a lawyer on purpose in order to avoid possibly becoming the family's next lawyer. Just a guess.

Funny how we here at the board can come up with various (better) ideas for GFIII script plots than what Coppola did.

Sometimes I wonder if Michael had him killed. I mean, those two didn't seem to be getting along too well at the end of Part II. I know it seems unlikely, but there is a twenty year gap between the two stories. Who knows...

I said it elsewhere but I'll repeat. If Tom had fallen out of Michael's favor and gotten whacked, like Fredo, the Hagen family would have also been cast out. We don't see Deanna anywhere in 3, do we? Yet Teresa and Andrew Hagen are clearly still part of the family.

I just write it off to some sort of natural cause or illness. Though it is frustrating knowing the real reason.

We don't see Deanna in Part 3 because it is pretty obvious that she & Fredo had parted ways at some point during Part 2. Same for Connie & Merle. In any case, neither made a good impression on Michael & the family at Anthony's Communion party.

Completely different from Teresa Hagan, and even Sonny's wife...who were clearly members of the family for many years, despite the deaths of their spouses.

Apple

Yes, Apple...No kids in either case to bind them to the family I guess.

I believe that it had something to do with his heart but i have also heard lung cancer.

I dont think we actually find out how he died

Perhaps Andrew became a priest because Frank became a lawyer, younger brothers often want to take a different path from the older e.g. Mike

Sandra Corleone should have been given more lines, and an appearence in part III, perhaps a meeting with her husbands bastard son.

Yes great point about Tom not being killed because the Hagen family are still about HOWEVER,the promise of Pentangelis family being looked after was what drove Frankie to slash his own wrists, sooooooo maybe???

I think Tom died of natural causes or car accident whatever. I highly doubt Michael killed him. Tom woulden't have been stupid enough to betray the family. He saw where it got too many other people. Michael and Tom had their problems but it was all in the interest of business. He was the lawyer and he advised just as he did to Don Vito and Sonny. Sometimes they disagreed but that was one of the reasons why he was an advisor in the first place, to provide his view.
Yes Michael and Tom argued but they were in fact brothers and they only way he would kill a brother is if it involved betrayal which I am convinced Tom would never do. He was smarter than that unlike Fredo.

I have a thread going in the GF IV forum which spins the idea that Tom Hagen did not die at all, but went underground to escape either

1) the Feds or
2) gangland enemies who wanted him dead.

Either one is certainly plausible. The Corleone Family would have the wherewithal to make Tom "disappear," set up a fake identity, etc etc. if for some reason he wanted to get out of sight of the Feds for a decade or so. In order to preserve this charade, Michael would tell anyone who asked about Tom, "Oh yeah, he died."

And as a formre consigliere and family lawyer, he would probably have been leaned on hard by the feds for information , creating the scenario of him going in the "official" Witness Protection Program.

so my GF IV script would feature a mid-60ish hair-dyed and sunglasses-wearing Tom Hagen reappearing to Michael in the mid-1980s after 20 years undercover.

EnzoBaker~ I love that idea! I'm not sure how plausable it is but it sounds as though you've thought it threw pretty throughly. Any excuse to have Tom back is great with me. I'm off to read your GF IV plot script.

Holy hell, for a minute I thought CamDon was back!

I think Tom, wheither he was in it or not, should have been mentioned a tad more.I dont care about the personal resentment between FFC and Bobby Duvall, but the character needed more than just one line about him and a pussy of a son in Part 3.

hehe, i agree The first 2 films would never have been as great without Hagen, he definitely deserved more dialogue

I was watching Part 1 last night and damn if Duvall would have been in Part 3. He would have brought so much more class to the movie. It was all on Pacino's shoulders, which he did well, but with Duvall around, he would have been able to share some of the movie with Pacino. And it would have been great to see them screen together 16 years later.

They should have paid him whatever he wanted.

Well, the official story of how Fredo died is that he "drowned". We know that Michael and Tom did not see eye-to-eye on a number of issues. What became of Tom?

Fredo "drowned" because he betrayed Michael, Tom would never have been that stupid.

Michael Corleone considered Tom Hagen equal as a brother and he was the only one he turned to, when the whole family was put on suspicion. Mike never would kill Tom Hagen, as Hagen protectd Mike's family from harm. They had their arugments, but the love of brothers was there. He never considered Hagen not to be a friend or brother, unlike what he did with Fredo. He always thought highly of Hagen unlike Fredo.

I remember hearing it had something to do with his heart...or cancer...heart...cancer? He died, thats all I know!

There is no mention in the movie of how he dies, everything else is speculation. I mentioned before FFC and MP were brilliant at only giving you just enough of the plot so you know what's going on, but not how it happened.

Clemenza in GF II didn't return due to a contract dispute and was written out. Duvall on the other hand wasn't being paid enough and demanded more money, when the studio reneged he dropped out and was written out likewise. In both cases both there characters were just mentioned ot have died as a slight character to viewer narration. FFC IMO left out the details to spark the imagination of the viewer.

Michael killing Tom seems totally out of the question to me. Certainly they didn't always see eye to eye, but there also was always a sense of respect that existed between them. For that matter, when the chips were down at the end of GFII, Tom was loyal to Michael.

I agree, there's no reason to speculate that it could have been foul play. If there had been foul play the script would have mentioned it, not alot but enough for you to perk your ears. For instance with the Clemenza death CiCi says something like "that was no heart attack", with that small line we know there was foul play involved and it involved the Rosato's because Frankie says, "thats what I came to talk about" or something like that. FFC gave us a little teaser then left it up to our imaginations, theres nothing like that with Tom.

People die ordinary deaths in real life I think Tom's was something like that. Not everyone that dies in GF has to die dramatically.

Was there an original script with Tom in it and they had to change it? If so, where is it? Will they ever print it? Or did they write the script after finding out who would be part?

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I would not be surprised to find out that I am, but didn't I read or hear that Tom did die of cancer and that Michael was truly sorry about his death? If there was such a feud between the two men, why would Michael take care of Tom's family? I know someone will say that Michael felt guilty and softened with age, but in this case, I believe he truly respected Tom and wanted the best for his family.

I think we are reading into his death a little too much. It is clear that Coppola wanted the viewer to doubt the explanation given for Clemenza's death, but with Hagen, I think it is what it is. He died of natural causes, and Michael remains close with his son and wife. As it was brough up before, if Hagen was killed, I think his family would not be as close with the Corleone's as they are.

It would have been so nice if Hagen was in Part 3 so we could see the end of the struggle between them, however, I think that they would have ended up together because Michael had regretted killing Fredo anyways. Unlikely that he would have done anything to Tom, even if provoked.

The way I see it is Clemenza and Hagen are both honoured in the words that were said after their death. They are remembered fondly to the contrast, most of the Corleone's enemies are portrayed as such in the movies or the books, quite explicitly.

By extension, this would imply they would have died loyal to the family.

Well said UnderBoss!