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Some questions about the mafia
#628859
01/11/12 12:52 PM
01/11/12 12:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
OP
Underboss
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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I have some questions about organized crime in the USA, the answers to which I didn’t find in books or on internet. Since you here seem to know quite a lot about this, could somebody answer those to satisfy my curiosity? The questions are about different things, but I don’t think I would have been allowed to post so many new topics at the same time, so I put them all in one topic:
1) What happened at the conclusion of the trials following the Colombo war in the 90’s? I read only that Orena, Amato and Scarpa were convicted, Sessa turned informant and Cutolo and Alphonse Persico were acquitted. But what about the others – Tomasello, Russo, Aloi and all their capos and hitmen? Was anybody convicted or were they all acquitted following the discovery about DeVecchio’s corruption?
2) Why was Rastelli’a case severed from the Commission trial? He got just 12 years while, had he been tried with other bosses, he would have gotten 100 years like the others. Of course, it makes no difference since he died after 4 years, but had he lived longer, he could just get out quite soon and start everything all over again
3) Do you have any information about Rastelli's acting boss – Salvatore “Sally fruits” Farruggia?
4) Why did Scarfo get a life sentence for the D’Alfonso murder, but only some decades for his RICO indictment that included many murders? Was the D’Alfonso murder considered more important or what?
5) Does anybody here happen to know if Massino admitted his role in the Napolitano murder or if he explained the contradictions between what the informants said about the number of shots and the type of weapon used and the results of the examination of the body?
6) Why do you think DeVecchio wasn’t convicted for his complicity with Scarpa? I know, FBI agents are difficult to convict, but for example John Connolly was convicted for his complicity with Bulger. What was so special about DeVecchio that the government decided to protect him at all costs?
7) Why did the Providence Mafiosi choose Limone as their boss? He was in jail for more than 30 years, so he theoretically shouldn’t know anything about how business is done today, he has lost decades of potential experience.
Sorry for bothering you with so many questions.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#628917
01/11/12 05:14 PM
01/11/12 05:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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I have some questions about organized crime in the USA, the answers to which I didn’t find in books or on internet. Since you here seem to know quite a lot about this, could somebody answer those to satisfy my curiosity? The questions are about different things, but I don’t think I would have been allowed to post so many new topics at the same time, so I put them all in one topic:
1) What happened at the conclusion of the trials following the Colombo war in the 90’s? I read only that Orena, Amato and Scarpa were convicted, Sessa turned informant and Cutolo and Alphonse Persico were acquitted. But what about the others – Tomasello, Russo, Aloi and all their capos and hitmen? Was anybody convicted or were they all acquitted following the discovery about DeVecchio’s corruption? I have to agree it´s a hell of a mess, trying to come to bottom with all the convictions, appeals, acquittals and counter appels from the government. Wiki certainly doesn´t help and it really takes a lawyer to read all those court documents to understand it, it seems. At least to me. Here is an extract from a court document, found on Find a case. On May 13, 1993, a fifteen-count superseding indictment was returned against defendants-appellees-Joseph P. Russo, Anthony Russo, and Joseph Monteleone, Sr.-and co-defendants Alphonse Persico, Joseph Tomasello, Theodore Persico, Sr., Richard Fusco, Robert Zambardi, Lawrence Fiorenza, Lawrence Mazza, and James Delmastro. All three defendants-appellees were charged with violating and conspiring to violate the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act ("RICO"), 18 U.S.C. §§ 1962(c), (d). Defendants-appellees, members of the Persico faction, were charged-both as predicate RICO offenses and as separate substantive offenses-with conspiracy to murder members of the Orena faction and with the murders of two particular members of the rival faction, John Minerva and Michael Imbergamo. Joseph and Anthony Russo were also charged-both as independent offenses and as part of the RICO pattern of racketeering-with conspiracy to make extortionate extensions and collections of credit, in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 892, 894. Finally, all defendants-appellees were charged with the substantive offense of using and carrying firearms during and in relation to a crime of violence, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 924(c). After a ten-week jury trial, Joseph Russo and Monteleone were found guilty of all charges, and Anthony Russo was found guilty of all charges except for the charge of conspiracy to make extortionate collections of credit. See Persico, 1997 WL 867788, at *1. http://www.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19980603_0206.c02.htm/qxYou are right about Alphonse Persico and Bill Cutolo, they were aqcuitted in these cases. Joe Tomasello was charged in 1998 and was convicted in 1999 and sentenced to 8 years in prison. Teddy Persico Sr recieved a 23 year sentence in 1994 (I think). Richard Fusco was sentenced to 14 years in prison. Robert Zambardi was imprisoned in 1999 after being sentenced to 20 years. The Aloi brothers were not charged in these cases (what I know of) but one of them, Benny Aloi was sent to prison on a different charge. Andy "Mush" Russo was imprisoned for parole violations and jury tampering, when trying to bribe a juror. It was his two sons that was on trial. 2) Why was Rastelli’a case severed from the Commission trial? He got just 12 years while, had he been tried with other bosses, he would have gotten 100 years like the others. Of course, it makes no difference since he died after 4 years, but had he lived longer, he could just get out quite soon and start everything all over again
The Bonannos had no seat on the Commission at the time. So Rastelli was not included in the Commission case. A big part of that case was the Galante killing the prosecutors claimed had been approved by the Commission members. 3) Do you have any information about Rastelli's acting boss – Salvatore “Sally fruits” Farruggia?
Very hard to come by some info on this guy. A picture of him can not be found either. I have been looking for years! I know that he was born in 1914 and rose within the Bonanno ranks just after the "Bananas war". I believe he was with the DiGregorio faction. In the 1980s, FBI listed his address as 84-14, 250th street, Queens, NY. There are some indications that Farrugia still functioned as a capo, until Massino allowed him to retire, sometimes in the 1990s.
Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 01/11/12 05:29 PM.
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#628924
01/11/12 06:03 PM
01/11/12 06:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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Thanks for the information. But about Rastelli: even if he didn't have a seat on the commission, wasn't it him who asked Galante to be killed? He was the most interested, since Galante was pushing him out of his position of power and also Bonanno hitmen were used for the murder. I find it strange Rastelli wasn't charged with the hit. I personally beleieve that Galante was killed on Rastelli´s orders. But I am more than willing to change my opinion if this killing gets solved and it turns out I was wrong. However, the US government believed that Galante was the boss at the time and that any hit on a boss must be approved by the Commission. I guess they thought it would be easier to prove the Commission´s (and all its members) involvement than Rastelli´s who was in the can at the time.
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#628954
01/11/12 07:24 PM
01/11/12 07:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,819 Australia
Mickey_MeatBalls_DeMonica
Mickey Meatballs
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Mickey Meatballs
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,819
Australia
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3) Do you have any information about Rastelli's acting boss – Salvatore “Sally fruits” Farruggia?
Very hard to come by some info on this guy. A picture of him can not be found either. I have been looking for years! I know that he was born in 1914 and rose within the Bonanno ranks just after the "Bananas war". I believe he was with the DiGregorio faction. In the 1980s, FBI listed his address as 84-14, 250th street, Queens, NY. There are some indications that Farrugia still functioned as a capo, until Massino allowed him to retire, sometimes in the 1990s. He was around for ages and considered a leader of the Bonanno Zip faction. Folks on the RealDeal have speculated on the possiblity that his position as Acting Boss was possibly interchangeable with Toto Catalano's Acting position. He died in 2007. Number Six - Besides numerous agents going in to bat for him, Linda schiro was severely discredited as a witness; the judge dismissed the charges. As far as the Limone question, the guy had just served 30 years on a bum rap. Without flipping or otherwise approaching the Government for help. I think they just figured "Hell, the crotchety old bugger deserves it." Not that he lasted that long though.
(cough.)
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#629446
01/14/12 01:10 PM
01/14/12 01:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
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Thanks for the information. But about Rastelli: even if he didn't have a seat on the commission, wasn't it him who asked Galante to be killed? He was the most interested, since Galante was pushing him out of his position of power and also Bonanno hitmen were used for the murder. I find it strange Rastelli wasn't charged with the hit. I personally beleieve that Galante was killed on Rastelli´s orders. But I am more than willing to change my opinion if this killing gets solved and it turns out I was wrong. However, the US government believed that Galante was the boss at the time and that any hit on a boss must be approved by the Commission. I guess they thought it would be easier to prove the Commission´s (and all its members) involvement than Rastelli´s who was in the can at the time. I think it may have been a combination: Rastelli wanting Galante out of the way of his Donship, and the Commission punishing Galante for not sharing his Sicilian heroin pipeline. Galante bragged that he'd make Carlo Gambino "s**t in the street." Nasty insult, but in the Mafia, you can't go wrong following the money--and his heroin pipeline generated huge money. Recall, too, that thr assassins made a beeline for the Ravenite Social Club in Manhattan, where they were congratulated by Neil Dellacroce.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Turnbull]
#629458
01/14/12 01:49 PM
01/14/12 01:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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I think it may have been a combination: Rastelli wanting Galante out of the way of his Donship, and the Commission punishing Galante for not sharing his Sicilian heroin pipeline. Galante bragged that he'd make Carlo Gambino "s**t in the street." Nasty insult, but in the Mafia, you can't go wrong following the money--and his heroin pipeline generated huge money. Recall, too, that thr assassins made a beeline for the Ravenite Social Club in Manhattan, where they were congratulated by Neil Dellacroce.
You might be right, Turnbull. I have seen those surveillance tapes. Bruno Indelicato looked happy like a nerd invited to a party with the cool kids. Stefano Cannone was also there. It is possible that the Commission was involved in some way and that Dellacrocre functioned as a cordinator of some sort. I want to mention though that all the shooters were linked to the Bonanno Family. This might suggest that the killing was primarily a "Family affair".
Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 01/14/12 02:23 PM.
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#629474
01/14/12 03:23 PM
01/14/12 03:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 263 Scotland UK
gemini_killer
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 263
Scotland UK
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yeah Galante got out in 74 and I'm sure one of Rastelli's cousins was shot dead (allegedly ordered by Galante) Rastelli stepped down and Galante took over..I think Rastelli also got jailed in that year (1974), so it would have been tough for him to try to go up against Galante at that time..I believe he was killed partly because everyone hated or feared him (usually both) and because he was killing Gambino,Genovese and Lucchese guys for control of the narcotics trade, while refusing to share the proceeds with his own guys (he was apparently very very greedy, like Joe Bonanno was)...I also read that he was also trying to take over the distribution of cheese in NY something Joe Bonanno once controlled and was then took over by (I think the Gambino Family) - Galante was asking to be killed for a long time ...(got a bit carried away there :p)
From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn. -Frank White
You say your 72, if they come back and tell me to give you a message - and if you want to defy it ... I assure you that you will never reach 73 - Joey "the clown" Lombardo
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: gemini_killer]
#631713
01/26/12 10:40 PM
01/26/12 10:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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Another mafia question: has the Providence boss Raymond Patriarca ever been a member of the Commission? I have read the Commission included 5 representative's of New York, one of Philadelphia and one of Detroit, but some sources like this one http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/providence_mob/3.html which refers to the book "The underboss" state Patriarca was on the Commission.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#631760
01/27/12 06:12 AM
01/27/12 06:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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I don´t think Patriarca ever sat on the National Commission. Some wiretaps found on the Mary Ferrell Foundation site shows that Patriarca (when talking about the Commission) clearly got some things wrong. (Suggesting he was not an insider.) However, some historians claim that there used to be a regional council that dealt with Mafia issues throughout the Massachusetts and Rhode Island area and that its members (local mafiosi) regulary met in Boston in order to resolve local matters. This could explain the confusion whether or not Patriarca sat on the National Commission.
Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 01/28/12 11:50 AM.
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Turnbull]
#631764
01/27/12 06:44 AM
01/27/12 06:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,881 The Jokers Social Club
DickNose_Moltasanti
BANNED
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BANNED
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,881
The Jokers Social Club
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Thanks for the information. But about Rastelli: even if he didn't have a seat on the commission, wasn't it him who asked Galante to be killed? He was the most interested, since Galante was pushing him out of his position of power and also Bonanno hitmen were used for the murder. I find it strange Rastelli wasn't charged with the hit. I personally beleieve that Galante was killed on Rastelli´s orders. But I am more than willing to change my opinion if this killing gets solved and it turns out I was wrong. However, the US government believed that Galante was the boss at the time and that any hit on a boss must be approved by the Commission. I guess they thought it would be easier to prove the Commission´s (and all its members) involvement than Rastelli´s The raven nite social club did john ever kill anyone there or was that at his fish club who was in the can at the time. I think it may have been a combination: Rastelli wanting Galante out of the way of his Donship, and the Commission punishing Galante for not sharing his Sicilian heroin pipeline. Galante bragged that he'd make Carlo Gambino "s**t in the street." Nasty insult, but in the Mafia, you can't go wrong following the money--and his heroin pipeline generated huge money. Recall, too, that thr assassins made a beeline for the Ravenite Social Club in Manhattan, where they were congratulated by Neil Dellacroce.
Random Poster:"I'm sorry I didn't go to an Ivy-league school like you"
"Ah I actually I didn't. It's a nickname the feds gave the Genovese Family."
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#631973
01/28/12 05:55 AM
01/28/12 05:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I don´t think Patriarca ever sat on the National Commission. Some wiretaps found on the Mary Ferrell Foundation site shows that Patriarca (when talking about the Commission) clearly got some things wrong. (Suggesting he was not an insider.) However, some historians claim that there used to be a regional council that dealt with Mafia issues throughout the Massachusetts and Providence area and that its members (local mafiosi) regulary met in Boston in order to resolve local matters. This could explain the confusion whether or not Patriarca sat on the National Commission. To my knowledge, the Patriarca family was never on the Commission. Here's a basic time line of the Commission by Jerry Capeci - In 1931, after the murders of Masseria and Maranzano, the original Commission is established with 7 members: the five New York families, Chicago, and Buffalo. Most eastern families without a seat were represented by the Genovese family. Most western families were represented by Chicago. The Commission would have national influence for about the next 50 years. In 1961 2 additional members were added to the Commission - the Detroit and Philadelphia families. In the 1960's the Chicago Outfit starts to miss more Commission meetings, which eventually resulted in a two-headed Commission with Chicago resolving family disputes west of them. Remaining common interests between New York and Chicago dealt with four major international unions and open territories. In 1974 the Buffalo family loses it's seat on the Commission with the death of boss Stefano Magaddino. In 1977 the Detroit family loses it's Commission seat when boss Joseph Zerilli dies. In 1980 Philadelphia loses it's Commission seat when boss Angelo Bruno is killed. In the early 1980's the Bonanno family temporarily loses it's Commission seat due to a number of reasons including the family not being unified, it's excessive involvement in narcotics, and the infiltration of FBI agent Joseph Pistone from 1976 to 1982. In the 1980's the New York and Chicago lost more contact due to prosecutions that brought new leaders that were unacquinted with each other, as well as the weakening of New York and Chicago control of the four international union through prosecutions and internal reform. The Commission essentially becomes a New York enterprise. In 1985, the leaders of the five New York families are indicted in the "Commission case." In 1988, leaders of the Genovese, Gambino, and Lucchese families meet at a Commission meeting. The only face to face meeting between Vincent Gigante and John Gotti. From 1991-1992 rival factions fight in the Colombo War going to war, resulting in the temporary loss of a seat on the Commission. In 2000, the last known Commission meeting is held with leaders of all five NY families.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#658613
08/04/12 03:29 AM
08/04/12 03:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 659 Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 659
Newcastle Upon Tyne
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One thing I dont understand. When the Philly detroit and buffalo bosses died why did they loose there seat on the Commission? Does the new boss have to prove himself to get back a seat on the Commission?
"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone
"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
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Re: Some questions about the mafia
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#658619
08/04/12 04:20 AM
08/04/12 04:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 659 Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841
Underboss
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Underboss
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
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Thanks Knuckles! Where did you read about the five year thing? Never knew that.
"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone
"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
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