Pluses and Minuses of so-called "made men"

Nowadays, what are the benefits of becoming a so-called "made man" and by the same token, what are the downsides?

Opinions?

My opinion is that theres no more "pluses", only minuses. Today if you get made, you might be instantly invited as a guest on some of the youtube podcasts with questions like "How was it?" or "Did the needle hurt much?" Lol.

There's really no pluses unless you're just some psychopathic bully that likes to throw your weight around in the underworld, power that you will only get to enjoy for a short time. I say underworld, because they've been booted out of every legitimate economic sector in America so they can't really impose themselves on legitimate businesses anymore. All of their power in construction, waste management, the docks, etc all gone.

A plus is when you are doing time, the other “made” men and associates and probably other criminal organizations will give you a little more respect while you are in the can.
Plus the others might be more willing to strike up a business relationship while inside with guys who are “made”.
On the street you might be able to win a couple more sit downs if you’re “made”, but no guarantees.


Plus of not being made- don’t have to answer to as many people or possibly kick up as much.

I think doing time is the only advantage of being “made” these days.

Be made put immediatly a target on your back by the Feds,risk more harsh sentences instead like said Frank Guerra a Colombo associate "they know who I am in the streets,I dont have to prove nothing" plus you can easly decide to leave the life. A well redpected associate can beat a made guy in a sit down because count the money not the brutal force.
But as a simple associate,the others dont have to ask the ok to kill you.

I think there is some benefit to the network eg if you want to set up a business or need access to another business you have an entire network of people involved in all sorts of stuff. The flip side to that is that I don’t think the mob actually uses that often in a productive way and they just want to skim as much money off each other as they can. But being a member you do have exposure to a ton of people across one of the most powerful cities in the world and a few other powerful cities. In that sense it’s a unique proposition excluding the Freemasons who are the masters at it

Like others have said I dont think there are much benefits nowadays.

AS Furio siad, it puts a target on you. I'll add that it seems to be the case since the days after Valachi. Tho examples are Anthony Scotto and Tom Gambino. Both, especially Scotto, where made more for the fraternal aspect than for crime. Both would have never gone to prison if not for being made and their association with the Gambinos. Neither took part in killings or anything else. They unbend others get hit with crazy extortion charges or bribery charges that are only part of the nature of the businesses they were in. To this day many relatives of Micky Spillane and Jimmy Coonan have great union jobs and even held some delegate spots. No problem. I think that even the rat Feathersone has a cousin in a teamster union in New York.

Their are many examples of nepotism going back generations in unions, no problem unless there is a connection to an Italian associate or made person. If made themselves, the FBI is constantly hounding them and will prosecute them on any minor charge or violations.

You're right Jace, I think even though Joe Colombo was using Italian-American civil rights to his own benefit, he was right in the end. In a sense, Italians do get the worst end of the stick. Raymond Patriarca was even heard on wiretap saying that those Irish hoodlums would stand outside their hangouts with guns exposed and everything and talk to the police like it was cool. And these were convicted felons. But let the Italians do that, not happening.

Re. target on your back: Here's a quote from "The Digger's Game" by George V. Higgins (who also wrote "The Friends of Eddie Coyle"). In this scene, a Mob guy is telling an associat that the Don likes him and is talking him up for getting made. Here's what the associate replies:

"Sooner or later they catch up with some guy, got made the same time as you, he's gonna spill his guts as usual.Then you go to bed at night, you got a state cop under the window. In the morning, you get up, FBI onna doorstep. The afternoon, you're having lunch, Treasury guys swap the FBI guys off. Internal Revenue in the dinnertime. Fuck that. My idea, getting made's a great idea, you want police protection. Otherwise, fuck it."

I know that Henry never wanted to be made as he felt it would put a bigger target on his back for the Feds to shoot at.
However, when Michael sent him to Youngstown to rein in Lenny he had to be made for Lenny to do as he was told.

What most dont understand is that more is expected of you when you are made. More responsibility, more stress. Its not some right of passage to be lazy and earn when you are chosen to get your button. You are on call 24/7 and that isnt a joke either.

Great stuff as always FOH. I hope you are well my friend.

FOH, who is Henry?

Here's a plus of being made: you get to sell out the associates under you and walk off scott-free, like Bingy Arilotta did. That's literally one of the biggest injustice cases I've ever seen. A made guy gives up unmade guys and gets away with a life of crime, smoking cigars on Instagram and still acting like a wiseguy.

Henry Zottola aka. Zebo. Long time John LaRocca associate and Michael Genovese's right hand man.

No pluses, you are better off washing dishes for a living than being in the mafia.

I don't think many dishwashers would agree, but I get your point. Being both would be really bad, although it could lead to a great book deal: "Mafia Dishwasher, the Story of one Man's......"

There are some who for sure ended up being "winners" in organized crime, retired with a shit ton of money, never did long prison time and so on. But majority of them end up totally opposite.

Even those who don't become filthy rich, still wouldn't rather be dishwashers. That's a bit of
an exaggeration. Even many who did lots of time would agree. But I definitely see your point.

There are made men who would make much more if they worked legit jobs. That is a fact.

Sure when you hit CAPO you are pretty much set for life financially. But when you are just a soldier trying to earn, its not some fucking guarantee you will be a rich man. Many live in very modest apartments and have to hustle on the side such as dealing drugs to make a living which is risky. Plus with all the rackets now becoming legalized, why the fuck would anyone really want to be in the mob anyway? I can become a bookie and never ever have to worry about going to jail or prison if its legit.

I think a lot of us fail to realize that many of these people join because they want to be part of a subculture that doesn't go to work or play by society's rules. Many of these guys know good and well they're not going to get rich.

I disagree on that one, 90% of them get in the life of crime when they are still teens 15-16 years old , because they have no other choice, in rich parts there is almost no crime , especially no organized crime , because people have other choices , no one will join that life because they want to live a life of crime , sure there are some but thats like 10% of them.

Take a look at whats happening in Naples with kids joining Camorra,they have no idea about the life they want to have at 15 years old , but they need new clothes, new shoes , new phone and so on , to impress surroundings ,they can't get it from parents because of bad economic situation, easiest way to get that stuff ? Well crime.

Look its not the 1940's anymore. These guys aren't being born into dirt poor Italian Families that do not speak english and they have to drop out of school to support their parents or siblings. They are born into money for the most part in 2023. Why the fuck would any of them join the mob to pay for a new pair of shoes or phone? Makes no sense.

Now this is just my opinion Strax so take it for what it is. The young guys today join for one reason...... status. They want to be known as a mobster, and they think the lifestyle is fun. This is why when they are finally arrested and the FBI knocks down their door, they fuckin flip and become a fuckin rat. They are not in it for the right reasons like how the old school guys were. OMERTA does not exist to them. Its all about women, partying, and $$$.

That is pretty fuckin pathetic and an insult to the men who were in it for the right reasons.

BTW this is in regards to the American LCN, not the Mafia in Italy.

Living near Naples I can say that: many boys are sons of people who spent most of his live in prison. The only way to change this situation is to create job as Strax said.
But the only big bussiness men wont spent an euro because would pay the Camorra.

For that part i was talking about Naples specifically. Scampia, Secondigliano and so on . Zen in Palermo too.

Furio, many of those big businessmen are where they are because of Camorra money. Hell, a lot of them are probably even members.

It's a myth that people only join organized crime because of economic disadvantages. People who get involved get involved for all types of reasons. Yes, many because they are poor. But in Italy, China, Japan and other countries accountants, doctors, lawyers, businessmen, people from nearly all walks of life join organized crime. Then you have those who get filthy rich and still stay involved. If it was only for economic reasons, why don't they quit?

One things is the street soldier that kill,sell dope etc and another are the white collars that made bussiness with the mafias. A man that launder dope money or that or who wins a contract thanks to corrupt politicians.
Are different worlds but the 95% are people that have no choices for live.

Okay Furio, I'm sure poverty does have a lot to do with why so many get involved. But the power you can have along with the ego boost is exhilarating.

There are a variety of reasons why individuals may be motivated to join a mafia/criminal organization. These can even include just a sense of belonging and camaraderie.

Yes, Hollander, people are getting tunnel vision with money. There's a bigger picture.

It's the same thing with street gangs, some people just want to belong to something and have an identity and a purpose.

And some love an adrenaline rush, always involved in crimes or fights. That's why they even shoplift lol to get the adrenaline going.

And some watch too many fuckin movies and idolize the Goodfellas. Then they end up like Jackie Aprile Jr cause they are not cut out for it and highly ignorant.

That Jack Garcia told a funny one when Greg De Palma at like 75-80 years old was in a store hiding things in his jacket stealing them, like cheap shit. And Jack called him out and he just said he couldn't help himself he loved it

Even Renato Vallanzasca a feared killer in 1970s-1980s was arrested recently because was caught stealing underwear during the day release ,I wouldn't call it an adrenaline rush but more a squalid thing.

Similar as degenerate gamblers. They live for the action, the more they lose the more they love the game....until they end up completely broke with no more money sources and sooner or later they end up in some ditch or commit suicide.

Renato Vallanzasca isn't the best example, he was part of a now-defunct gang, not a member of any of the established big criminal organizations. Plus, he was on a prison furlough, if he was really that destitute he could've just skipped his furlough and have everything provided for by the state.

James Licavoli from Cleveland also did shoplifting when he was boss already. I thought it was a joke when I first read about it.

Speaking of Livavoli, I think it was Peter Livavoli of Detroit, he was wealthy, moved to Arizona. Anyway, he was known for being a really cheap ass. I'll try to find the details. John Pennisi also spoke of a guy who made 30K a month but would still take his car to a friend for a free oil change.

Not sure about Peter, but the shoplifting incident I was talking about was about James Licavoli. I mean, the one mentioned here:

https://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the-cle/the-read/articles/the-life-and-hard-times-of-cleveland's-mafia

I dont remember the whole story but i think that it was old time Outfit made member Dominick Brancato (hitman since the 1930s and one of the infamous "Three Doms") was caught stealing in some shop while he was an old man. I mean how low can you get and the whole "men of honor" thing goes out the window.

Once again, I'll say that their definition is very different from other people's definition of honor. It doesn't include not committing crimes or stealing from a store.

Yes I remember that story about Jackie Livavoli now. He was just cheap and didn't like paying for things. This is actually quite common, with even celebrities and other wealthy people. Only when they do it we don't bash them for their "lack of honor."

It used to be a common practice for some celebrities to write checks for any amount under around 50 bucks or so.
The checks would never get cashed because of the autograph.
Clint Eastwood in particular, says that he routinely did this for minor traffic citations. He joked that there are probably framed checks from him on display in Police Stations all over the US.

I agree largely with what’s been said. However it also depends on the capability and criminal intelligence (of crime, the legal system, etc) of the individual and how they operate and behave. Now it appears that there is a deficiency of criminal talent and skills to avoid being a target. Some still manage to do well but it’s a very small percentage

It's about honor and respect (rispetto), but only in their own circle (in particular to their superiors).

I think The Sopranos was pretty realistic. Christopher complaining about how not being a made man was like anything he thought it was gonna be, made guys preying on each other even from the same Family, etc.

There are, (or were,) certain distinct benefits to being formally inducted. But, on the other hand, there were also definite liabilities to the position as well.

Conversely, so-called "associates," who ran the gamut from lowly nobodies, to extremely important and powerful figures, also had benefits and liabilities to their positions.

But, quite frankly, when you speak of the top-tier, the "top ranked" associates. The men who had lucrative million-dollar rackets and businesses, were considered real street savvy and were "capable" too, those fellas were almost considered the same as a formally inducted guys. (And in some cases, they even ranked higher and held more respect than them.)