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Question about the Casino movie

Posted By: blacksheep

Question about the Casino movie - 07/01/23 09:25 PM

So the movie is kinda told through 2 different perspectives. Tony and Lefty each believed them to be the ones doing things as they were meant to be done. Tony figured they were there to rob the town, and Lefty was more playing the long game being mostly legit and doing the skim. Their actions obviously set in motion some big things, but with the movie montage, a lot of the details would obviously be left out. Anyone who knows about Chicago, do you guys have any insight on the real goings-on of the Vegas thing and the dynamic between Lefty and Tony? Did the midwest families want Tony out of the picture to keep things going with Lefty, or was Tony actually more valuable to them? The movie obviously shows a better light on Lefty, but who knows the more real story?
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/02/23 03:30 AM

Blacksheep, you should read "The Black Book and the Mob," by Ronald A. Farrell and Carole Case, which is the definitive book about the Mafia and Vegas. It has lots of stuff about Spilotro and Rosenthal, and everyone else in OC involved in Vegas.
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/02/23 10:51 PM

Pesci deserved an Oscar for both Goodfellas and Casino.

Posted By: NYMafia

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/03/23 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Hollander
Pesci deserved an Oscar for both Goodfellas and Casino.



This was one of the best scenes in the movie.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/05/23 07:12 AM

Lefty Rosenthal was a gangster to the core, meaning he wasnt some weak frontman like Glick. In fact, Rosenthal belonged to the David Yaras/Lenny Patrick crew. Before going to Vegas, Rosenthal was in Miami together with Yaras and they were involved in numerous bombings in that same area, including many gambling and loan sharking operations. Another of Rosenthal's alleged mentors was also old time Outfit "member" Les Kruse.
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/09/23 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Toodoped
Lefty Rosenthal was a gangster to the core, meaning he wasnt some weak frontman like Glick. In fact, Rosenthal belonged to the David Yaras/Lenny Patrick crew. Before going to Vegas, Rosenthal was in Miami together with Yaras and they were involved in numerous bombings in that same area, including many gambling and loan sharking operations. Another of Rosenthal's alleged mentors was also old time Outfit "member" Les Kruse.


So many Jewish gangsters from Chicago probably even more as NYC lol.
Posted By: Big_Tuna93

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/10/23 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Toodoped
Lefty Rosenthal was a gangster to the core, meaning he wasnt some weak frontman like Glick. In fact, Rosenthal belonged to the David Yaras/Lenny Patrick crew. Before going to Vegas, Rosenthal was in Miami together with Yaras and they were involved in numerous bombings in that same area, including many gambling and loan sharking operations. Another of Rosenthal's alleged mentors was also old time Outfit "member" Les Kruse.


That's interesting. I always assumed he was sort of a weak front man.
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 06:35 AM

Lefty had a record so he definitely wasn’t some squeaky clean front man.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hollander


So many Jewish gangsters from Chicago probably even more as NYC lol.


@H...and the thing was that those same Chicago Jewish mobsters were with the Outfit for 50 or 60 years and thats why some of them exercised a lot of power, authority and respect among the Italian membership, meaning they were part of the family and they were all one clique.


Originally Posted by dixiemafia
Lefty had a record so he definitely wasn’t some squeaky clean front man.


@dixiemafia I agree.


Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93


That's interesting. I always assumed he was sort of a weak front man.


@BigTuna here are few examples from my old Lenny Patrick article regarding the Miami situation...Rosenthal was one of Yaras' “students” in the bookmaking business down in Miami. They constantly met to talk business at the Miami Beach Bayshore Country Club, which was Yaras' headquarters. Rosenthal was Yaras' overseer at the Multiple Sports News Service, which provided the “line” for bookmakers of sport events on national level. During June and July of 1967, on the orders of Yaras, Rosenthal purchased explosives, detonators, guns and ammunition so it can be used against rival bookmakers. For example, Alfie Mart was a Miami bookmaker and his headquarters got blown up for resisting the services of Rosenthal’s company. Also the automobile of Irving “Mickey” Zion, another Miami bookmaker, was blown to pieces. Next, the cleaning shop of another Miami bookmaker Jack “Chappie” Rand was bombed and totally destroyed.
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Lefty Rosenthal was a gangster to the core, meaning he wasnt some weak frontman like Glick. In fact, Rosenthal belonged to the David Yaras/Lenny Patrick crew. Before going to Vegas, Rosenthal was in Miami together with Yaras and they were involved in numerous bombings in that same area, including many gambling and loan sharking operations. Another of Rosenthal's alleged mentors was also old time Outfit "member" Les Kruse.


That's interesting. I always assumed he was sort of a weak front man.


I think that the portrait the movie made of Rosenthal is different from real life.
Lefty wasnt a killer but he was a smart bussiness man and grown in the same streets than Spilotro.
The Outfit wouldn't give the control of the 3 most profitable casinos to a weak man.
He has significantly increased the profits of the casinos and if it hadn't been for his junkie wife he would have continued even after Spilotro's death.
Posted By: Big_Tuna93

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 01:08 PM

Great stuff, guys. Thank you. I've always wondered too, if Geri McGee was as awful as Sharon Stone portrayed her in the movie. Now i want to watch Casino.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Great stuff, guys. Thank you. I've always wondered too, if Geri McGee was as awful as Sharon Stone portrayed her in the movie. Now i want to watch Casino.


Same here and Im going to watch it tonight Lol

Interesting to note is that back during the 40's and 50's, the Chicago Outfit was known for killing junkie relatives even of simple associates who were also somehow connected to the mob, and so Lefty's wife probably knew at least something about his connections and so I always wondered on why the mob never went after her. Who knows, maybe one of their guys gave her the last "hot" dose? I mean the Chi boys never had problems with killing women, so again, I wonder what happened? Maybe Lefty kept the whole "junkie" thing in secret...
Posted By: Big_Tuna93

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Great stuff, guys. Thank you. I've always wondered too, if Geri McGee was as awful as Sharon Stone portrayed her in the movie. Now i want to watch Casino.


Same here and Im going to watch it tonight Lol

Interesting to note is that back during the 40's and 50's, the Chicago Outfit was known for killing junkie relatives even of simple associates who were also somehow connected to the mob, and so Lefty's wife probably knew at least something about his connections and so I always wondered on why the mob never went after her. Who knows, maybe one of their guys gave her the last "hot" dose? I mean the Chi boys never had problems with killing women, so again, I wonder what happened? Maybe Lefty kept the whole "junkie" thing in secret...


I believe that a relative of hers, or perhaps a friend of hers once stated that she believed the outfit was responsible for her death, but I sincerely doubt it. She was just a bad junkie who let that shit catch up with her.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/11/23 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Great stuff, guys. Thank you. I've always wondered too, if Geri McGee was as awful as Sharon Stone portrayed her in the movie. Now i want to watch Casino.


Same here and Im going to watch it tonight Lol

Interesting to note is that back during the 40's and 50's, the Chicago Outfit was known for killing junkie relatives even of simple associates who were also somehow connected to the mob, and so Lefty's wife probably knew at least something about his connections and so I always wondered on why the mob never went after her. Who knows, maybe one of their guys gave her the last "hot" dose? I mean the Chi boys never had problems with killing women, so again, I wonder what happened? Maybe Lefty kept the whole "junkie" thing in secret...


I believe that a relative of hers, or perhaps a friend of hers once stated that she believed the outfit was responsible for her death, but I sincerely doubt it. She was just a bad junkie who let that shit catch up with her.


I agree. Heroin addicts are most "adventurous" junkies and easy targets on all fields, and so you can never tell for sure on what really went on...
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/14/23 03:47 AM

Yea, no way the Outfit was worried about her lol
Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/14/23 06:20 AM

McGee died from an overdose. Dont believe the mob was involved. For years up to her death her so called friends and associates were stilling what she had when she departed from Lefty. She even sold some of her jewelry a few times to get her fix.

Lefty would never get a gaming license as he was not squeaky clean. I wish the movie had dived more into the senator and the gaming commission.

Both Lefty and Tony brought a lot of heat to Vegas especially in the later years. Tony started up the Hole in Wall gang back in 1971, not really an issue for Chicago as Joey Doves was getting his cut from the heists, it was the other bosses and families that were upset, especially Kansas City and Milwaukee, finally Detroit and Cleveland when the feds were putting a lot of pressure on their associates in LV when gang went after every score it could get, before that Tony's crew was selective. Spilotro was only a minor nuisance for the family compared to Lefty.
With Lefty it was doomed as Lefty was an informant. Lefty was supposed to be behind the scenes, after the article was published, he put himself in the limelight because of his ego, now lefty was hell of a good handicapper which saved his life as he was still a tremendous earner for Chicago. If lefty had just dropped that article after it was published and not make a circus, and if Spilotro was on a tighter lease that the Clown and Dove put on him, it would not have gone so bad. The Kansas City wiretap would have still done damage but the families would have scavenged what they could. If the mob had found out Lefty was an informant they would have killed him already. Even with the FBI surveillance and wiretaps, they would have never had gotten to the key people they did, and someone was feeding them information, which is why I suspect left was still informing after relocating to LV.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/14/23 01:43 PM

Before Vegas, Spilotro and the Indian Schiro also had a burglary crew in AZ. One of their main targets was systematic diversion of gold which was used for electronics in the Motorola plants, obviously in large quantity. My point is that they rarely brought attention at the time and were still untouchable, while stealing lots of gold and cash, dealing narcotics and also killing people.

Also as GV said, Lefty was an informant. In fact, it seems that Lefty was somehow Spilotros downfall.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/17/23 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Lefty would never get a gaming license as he was not squeaky clean. I wish the movie had dived more into the senator and the gaming commission.


The Gaming Board in 1988 phut Rosenthal in the "Black Book," a list of people who could be barred from even entering a casino, much less owning, operaating or having a license for a "key" job in a casino.
The Board cited: "His 1963 felony conviction for conspiring to bribe a New York University basketball plalyer; his notorious and unsavory reputation in regard to gaming; his criminal associations, especially with Spilotro;his exclusion from Florida racetracks; and references to his activities in th Chicago Crime Commission and federal congsressional reports."
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/17/23 05:27 PM

@TB thats right, although I think they shouldve placed him in the black book decades before that since the government already had information regarding Rosenthal being, not just connected, but a real mobster. In my previous post I showed you that both Yaras and Lefty were involved in numerous bombings around the Miami area.

Heres some additional and different info...

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Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/17/23 08:24 PM

Sure, TD. All that bad stuff was on the record way before 1988; the Board would have denied him a license if he'd applied for one as a "key employee," like credit manager or casino manager. But I don't think he ever applied for one--I think he might have officially been carried as the "public relations director" or the "food and beverage director." But, you can be put in the Black Book if you have an "unsavvory reputation," which means whaterver the Board thinks applies to you.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/17/23 09:01 PM

@TB thanks again. The Outfit had big problems with the black book. I mean Marshall Caifano was also placed there and literally fucked up his job. The same thing happened to Spilotro. Although I dont remember if Roselli was also on the list...i think he was but im not 100% sure. All three guys were the Outfits overseers in Vegas.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/17/23 10:02 PM

Roselli was not in the Black Book. Caifano and Murray Humphries werre in the original group of 11 put in the Black Book. Caifano mounted an extended legal campaign against the Gaming Board, claiming that his 14th Amendment "rights"were violated. A Federal appellate court, in a landmark decision, ruled that entry into casinos was a "privilege" conferred by the state of Nevada, not a Constitutionally protected "right."
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/18/23 01:07 AM

Rosenthal’s FBI code name was "Achilles"
Sure beat the code name his mob buddies used when discussing him — "Crazy." lol.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/jane-ann-morrison/lefty-rosenthal-was-an-fbi-snitch/
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/18/23 12:23 PM

Thanks again both @TB and @H.

Caifano already became famous when his old brother Fat Lenny Caifano (former capo for Giancanas Taylor St crew) was killed by Teddy Roe. From that point on he was constantly on the government's radar and his presence in Vegas was also somehow his "sanctuary" from all of the heat back home in Chicago. But as usual, his reputation quickly reached the west coast too and so by the late 1950s (i think) he was replaced by Roselli.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/18/23 09:31 PM

Heres one interesting convo between the Outfits top advisor and also representative for the Outfit's non-Italian faction and "connection guys", Murray Humphreys, and Marshall Caifano regarding Caifano's ban from Las Vegas, Nevada. Humphreys is literally schooling Caifano on what he should do or not, meaning this is just one of the hundreds of evidences regarding some of the non-Italian bosses having a higher stature and influence over the many Italian made guys.

Also this same report shows us that after being banned from Vegas, Caifano was literally broke and asked for money. From the days of Jake Guzik to Humphreys, the non-Italian faction also acted as treasurers for the whole organization and often gave loans to many crews, such as the Daddono crew or in this case to Caifano who in turn belonged to the Battaglia "outfit".

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Posted By: Big_Tuna93

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/19/23 01:06 PM

Every single thing I read about Caifano whether its just a story or an actual transcript, it seems like the guy was always getting shit on.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/19/23 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Every single thing I read about Caifano whether its just a story or an actual transcript, it seems like the guy was always getting shit on.

I agree @Big T. Caifano wasn’t a smart racketeer and if it wasn’t for his old friends like Battaglia and Louie Fratto, Caifano wasn’t going to make any money, but on the other hand he was a professional killer and allegedly executed lots of contracts for the Outfit. Although his prime time didn’t last long and was already replaced with Roselli, besides Caifano still trying to remove his name from the black book. That’s why later Battaglia turned his back at him and also turned a blind eye when Caifano’s fellow crew members Alderisio, Nicoletti and Frabotta took over many of Caifanos deals, and again old man Humphrey had to solve the problem, as the Outfits main arbiter and advisor, mainly because the boss Sam Giancana didnt care about anything because he was in love at the time and wasnt around, constantly.
Posted By: Big_Tuna93

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/19/23 01:53 PM

Murray Humphries is absolutely fascinating. I never really gave him his credit as he wasnt italian, so i always doubted his stature in the organization. As I've spent more time on this forum, I must say Sam Giancana is so intriguing. That guys life was something else.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/19/23 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Murray Humphries is absolutely fascinating. I never really gave him his credit as he wasnt italian, so i always doubted his stature in the organization. As I've spent more time on this forum, I must say Sam Giancana is so intriguing. That guys life was something else.


If it wasnt for Humphreys, there wasnt going to be any Bruno Roti Sr or Frank Ferraro or Gus Alex. We have info regarding Humphreys "bashing" some high level CN members like Cerone or Skids Caruso. He was their main "teacher". The Outfits non-Italian crew was something else, and they had a official seat on Chicago's round table with their own vote, even regarding on who was going to be the new CN Chi boss.

As for Giancana...he was more Americanized than Capone and didnt care much about the Italian stuff. Or as Angelo Bruno once said that Giancana worked with everyone and also made money for everyone. And again as a reminder, Giancana didnt understand Italian and was making faces during commission meetings. Again, Giancana is the main example of a completely Americanized Italian mobster and thats why he and his predecessors never had a problem with the non-Italians having a seat on their own "commission".
Posted By: alicecooper

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/19/23 06:01 PM

Since Casino is the subject, the guy in the grocery store always batching about keeping records of his expenses cracks me up every time.

I'll hit da two of em in da backada head wid a fuckin shovel. Ma! I'm sorry
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/20/23 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by alicecooper
Since Casino is the subject, the guy in the grocery store always batching about keeping records of his expenses cracks me up every time.

I'll hit da two of em in da backada head wid a fuckin shovel. Ma! I'm sorry


Same thoughts here, the scene is hilarious lol lol
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/20/23 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Big_Tuna93
Murray Humphries is absolutely fascinating. I never really gave him his credit as he wasnt italian, so i always doubted his stature in the organization. As I've spent more time on this forum, I must say Sam Giancana is so intriguing. That guys life was something else.


If it wasnt for Humphreys, there wasnt going to be any Bruno Roti Sr or Frank Ferraro or Gus Alex. We have info regarding Humphreys "bashing" some high level CN members like Cerone or Skids Caruso. He was their main "teacher". The Outfits non-Italian crew was something else, and they had a official seat on Chicago's round table with their own vote, even regarding on who was going to be the new CN Chi boss.

As for Giancana...he was more Americanized than Capone and didnt care much about the Italian stuff. Or as Angelo Bruno once said that Giancana worked with everyone and also made money for everyone. And again as a reminder, Giancana didnt understand Italian and was making faces during commission meetings. Again, Giancana is the main example of a completely Americanized Italian mobster and thats why he and his predecessors never had a problem with the non-Italians having a seat on their own "commission".


Jack Guzik seemed to be very important inthe founding of the non-Italian crew.

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Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/21/23 06:31 AM

At the time Capone came to Chicago (ca. 1919) Guzik was Torrio's right hand man and chief political fixer. Torrio put Capone under him and the two became inseperable. The only man Capone killed with his own hand in Chcago was Joe Howard, who had slapped Guzik around. Guzik and Ricca ran the Outfit after Capone went to prison, and he and Accardo were joined at the hip later.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/21/23 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Hollander


Jack Guzik seemed to be very important inthe founding of the non-Italian crew.

]


Thats right @H. As you already said, when Capone became the new representative for the Chicago Mafia, he obviously gave Guzik and the non-Italian group their on seat on the Outfit's board of directors. Which means we can consider Guzik as the "founder" of that same seat or official position which was followed by a line of succession, with Guzik as the first rep

Btw, also thanks for the pics.


Originally Posted by Turnbull
At the time Capone came to Chicago (ca. 1919) Guzik was Torrio's right hand man and chief political fixer. Torrio put Capone under him and the two became inseperable. The only man Capone killed with his own hand in Chcago was Joe Howard, who had slapped Guzik around. Guzik and Ricca ran the Outfit after Capone went to prison, and he and Accardo were joined at the hip later.


I agree @TB regarding Guzik and his brothers being around since the Torrio days, obviously because his father Max Guzik was around way before them and was involved with Colosimo in the prostitution racket and also worked as precinct captain for old time Chicago's political crime bosses Coughlin and Kenna, who in turn belonged to the first and original Irish mob that completely ruled Chicago during those days. Max Guzik was Jewish immigrant born in 1855 in Poland and arrived in Chicago’s Lawndale area sometime around the early 1890’s or to be exact in 1892. So it is possible that it was for Max Guzik who brought his three sons into the "Life". Max also had a fourth son who I believe was the oldest and went by the name of Charles Guzik.

Besides his three sons Harry, Sam and Jake, other of Max Guzik's close associates and crew members were Charlie and Julius Maibaum, Leo Bernstein, Jack Colvin, Al Harris, Frank Lewis and Isadore Levine who I think was related to one of Jake Guzik's future top lieutenants Hymie Levine. Their main areas of operations at the time were located around Ogden Av, Lawndale, the Levee and around the South Side, obviously with the backing of aldermen Kenna and Coughlin.

The situation was the same with the Greek Alex family, meaning it was for their father who brought his three sons into the rackets. One of the three sons Gus Alex belonged to the non-Italian line of succession, meaning he became the new boss in 1965 when he succeeded the late Humphreys who in turn previously succeeded Guzik back in 1955/56.

Posted By: Hollander

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/21/23 09:28 AM

Thanks Toodoped, at his funeral the people of the Jewish Cemetery had never seen so many Italians in attendance.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/22/23 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Hollander
Thanks Toodoped, at his funeral the people of the Jewish Cemetery had never seen so many Italians in attendance.


Thats right. Back in the old days the top Italian leadership often paid their last respects when some of non-Italian bosses died. Besides Guzik's funeral, Claude Maddox's funeral was also visited by members of the top Italian leadership. Even when Alex's dad passed away (Nick Alex), again some high level members of the Italian faction were also present.

For example, besides all the publicity which they received at the time and also the alleged "rule" not to show up very often on gangster funerals, still out of respect Maddox's funeral was visited by many high profile figures including Paul Ricca, Tony Accardo, Sam Giancana, Joey Aiuppa, Robert Ansani, Frank Ferraro, Gus Alex and Fifke Corngold, among many others. These guys were obliged to show respect and so they respected the gangster code, obviously because the late Maddox used to be one of the originals.
Posted By: jace

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/22/23 03:39 PM

Jake Guzik lived a long life for that time period (70 years old at his death) especially considered he was in the middle of things at a very dangerous time, the 1920's.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/22/23 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by jace
Jake Guzik lived a long life for that time period (70 years old at his death) especially considered he was in the middle of things at a very dangerous time, the 1920's.


Thats right and I agree 100%.

In fact, Guzik went through two quite dangerous conflicts. One being during the days of Prohibition, and the second conflict during the 1940s, which was again against the North Side mob and also again, Guzik was still at the top together with the Fischettis and Accardo, since the previous top leadership was in jail at the time (Ricca, Campagna, D'Andrea etc.). Guzik was again part of the group which managed to defend the throne from the old "Northsiders" for the second time. Although I think that during the early 1940s he was once allegedly kidnapped by someone. Some sources say that it was the rising younger generation, while I personally suspect that it was the rival North Side crew. Legend goes that Guzik allegedly paid off his kidnappers.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/23/23 07:30 AM

... in addition, the Guzik family was very rich and according to one informant, after Guzik's death, his protege Gus Alex allegedly extorted Guzik's family members, mainly because Alex was allegedly stronger than Guzik while the old man was still alive. I personally DO NOT believe in the story, mainly because we have info that Guzik was quite respected and acted as Alex mentor for many years, and so I dont think that Alex was able to do something like that. I think if Alex ever tried something like that, he was probably going to get whacked on either Ricca's, Accardo's or Humphreys' orders. Anyways its up to you guys to decide on whats true and whats not in this particular story and so heres the file...

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Posted By: jace

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/23/23 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by jace
Jake Guzik lived a long life for that time period (70 years old at his death) especially considered he was in the middle of things at a very dangerous time, the 1920's.


Thats right and I agree 100%.

In fact, Guzik went through two quite dangerous conflicts. One being during the days of Prohibition, and the second conflict during the 1940s, which was again against the North Side mob and also again, Guzik was still at the top together with the Fischettis and Accardo, since the previous top leadership was in jail at the time (Ricca, Campagna, D'Andrea etc.). Guzik was again part of the group which managed to defend the throne from the old "Northsiders" for the second time. Although I think that during the early 1940s he was once allegedly kidnapped by someone. Some sources say that it was the rising younger generation, while I personally suspect that it was the rival North Side crew. Legend goes that Guzik allegedly paid off his kidnappers.



Thank you Toodoped. I knew that the made it though the roaring 20's and all those era's wars, but I had never heard of the 1940's conflicts or his kidnapping.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/23/23 07:21 PM

Guzik's brother, Harry, was famous (infamous actually) in his own right:
A young girl, who became known as "The Damsel in Distress," threw a note from a window in one of Harry's brothels, claiming she was being held against her will. This led to passage of the Mann Act, which made it a federal crime to transport underage girls across state lines for "immoral purposes." Probably the most famous man convicted under the Mann Act was Chuck Berry, who served almost two years in prison on that rap.
Posted By: Toodoped

Re: Question about the Casino movie - 07/23/23 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by jace

Thank you Toodoped. I knew that the made it though the roaring 20's and all those era's wars, but I had never heard of the 1940's conflicts or his kidnapping.


No problem @Jace. Yup, Guzik played a major role during the 1940's when the Outfit's leadership was most vulnerable, by having many of his Jewish and non-Italian underlings being involved in the second conflict as killers, and also as corruptors regarding the early releases of the bosses. In fact, Guzik was also the prime player in taking over the race wires during that same period. Btw, here's one of Guzik's statements from that same era which I always find it funny, although it was very true....you see, in 1946 Guzik was arrested and taken for questioning and the cops wanted for Guzik to take a lie detector, and so the old gangster replied:

Captain, what’s the use of kidding ourselves?! If I took a lie test, 30 of the biggest men in Chicago would be diving out of high story windows and I’d have to hit myself in the head


Originally Posted by Turnbull
Guzik's brother, Harry, was famous (infamous actually) in his own right:
A young girl, who became known as "The Damsel in Distress," threw a note from a window in one of Harry's brothels, claiming she was being held against her will. This led to passage of the Mann Act, which made it a federal crime to transport underage girls across state lines for "immoral purposes." Probably the most famous man convicted under the Mann Act was Chuck Berry, who served almost two years in prison on that rap.


That's right @TB. It was assistant state attorney Clifford Roe who investigated Harry Guzik and his brothels, and he also asked for help from Washington D.C. so he can make a move on the vice trade, and he did it. Years later Harry Guzik also had a cancer which was removed from his throat and he used some type of small microphone which he used for talking. One of Harry's most famous brothels from the old days was named “The Blue Goose” at 119th and Paulina Street, and Harry allegedly managed the joint together with his wife Alma. It is interesting to note that some of these guys who were all connected, such as the Colosimos, the Guziks etc. had their wives also involved in the rackets. Colosimos wife, Victoria Moresco, was also involved in the prostitution racket together with her two brothers. Back in the days, from that same era, I also found one female with last name "Torrio" who was also involved in the rackets but I wasnt able to connect her to John Torrio.

In addition, in 1909 Harry’s younger brother Jake Guzik was arrested for the vanishing of an underage girl who he previously married her back in 1908. Guzik was mistakenly labeled as “John” in the newspapers at the time but besides that, he was later released on all charges. Story goes that Guzik “enslaved” underage girls for business but also for his own personal purposes. Besides receiving one suspicious telegram, the girl’s family never saw their daughter or sister ever again.

The Guzik brothers were obviously quite nasty.
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