Whats actually left of the mob?...Truly??

We all acknowledge the infamous "Five Families." We got some Philly, some New England stuff (a bit of Providence and bits in Boston), Buffalo is completely debatable and at best it's on its last legs. If not for some Canada guys they'd be dead in the water too.

Detroit? Chicago? Are those cities even a bleep on the mob map nowadays? Its a debate for sure!

The rest? Rockford? Los Angeles? Pittsburgh? Cleveland? Tampa? etc., etc., etc....

7 to 8 families (or what pass for families nowadays). Thats about it. Feel free to correct me where you feel I'm wrong here.

Not much. LA is barely a family. It's more like a crew. If that. What's more is that these guys aren't doing anything that's even remotely illegal. It's so watered down at this point I'm amazed that law enforcement is still interested in them. Detroit? I know the feds in Detroit still believe there's a viable family over there. Maybe there's one good bookmaking operation left. I don't know lol

First you have to provide your definition of what a family is and into. I say, 5 NY, Boston, Phil, Detroit, Chicago, NJ, and Buffalo. But my definition isn't as stringent as some others may be. Just depends on your definition.

You're right. I completely forgot to include the NJ DeCavalcante's.

And in my mind any "family" or "borgata" is a self-contained entity, not responsible and not reporting to another crew. Whether they be 10 members left, or 210 members left. A separate "crew" or family, is a crew and a family, regardless of size.

You say Buffalo is on its last legs, but not too long ago everyone believed that they were 100% defunct, in other words, nothing, zero, zip. That makes me wonder what else are we wrong about. Regardless if there's a viable LCN Family in Los Angeles or not, that news that broke out involving Tommy Gambino was utterly shocking nonetheless. I think we often underestimate them.

Giacalone just out of curiosity how could you possibly be in the know of every crew, member and/or associate to know what they had going on?
No offense I cannot see how you could possibly be that plugged in to make a blanket statement such as that?

I ran into a old friend from the Carol Gardens area of Brooklyn, he is younger we talking about the old days, he was telling me that he just hit the #, I thought I was going to school him about the #'s by explaining to him, that back in the day you were able to play the #'s at the local club or deli or through local runner's in the neighborhood,

To my surprise he went on to tell me that at certain spots in the neighborhood you could still play the #'s, and that they paid you an extra $100.00 on top of what N.Y.S, would pay if you hit through them.

He also told me about a couple of Bodega's that were run by middle eastern that were also spots as well.

I thought #'s were long gone and dead.

He is 15 years younger than I am.

Now I am sure that #'s are no where near what they used to be,
Many could make a statements that #'s books are dead.

If that statement is used as a basis to compare #'s books from yesterday to today is that accurate? Pretty Much... Yes, I will agree with that statement.
Dead meaning no where near what it was or used to be..

But NOT DEAD MEANING DEAD.

LCN, is dead in Bensonhurst
Again dead meaning yesterday there were a social clubs/or mob fronts every few blocks.

Now there are very few and far in between and if you dont know what you are looking for, they are very easy to miss, by design by the way.

With that said if the statement were made that LCN is dead in Bensonhurst it would be accurate if were a comparative analyses, of what it used to be.
However, again it does NOT mean it is dead as in no more.


Please dont take this as in insult I dont come on here to argue with anyone, it looks like we finally got rid of the trouble makers and I am not looking to start anything up.

How bout Chicago. Do you fellas believe anyones truly kicking up to a boss at this point or its a free for all? What rackets are left? everything is legal

N.Y. Hope all is well with you and yours.

My personal opinion is that if a family is still inducting members they are still a family.
I agree with your assessment for the most part:

From what I have read Detroit seems to still be active, in my opinion they are the most successful family in American history, only one of their bosses have spent any time in jail.
That was 2 years or something.

Look at the wealth they have been able to accumulate their inner circle anyway.

Back in the day they would only induct once every 10 or 15 years is what I read.

So it appears they have kept it the way it is by design and on purpose.

They are so secretive how do we really know how many members they really every had?
Or how many they have today?

No way we can tell that for sure.

The boards way of thinking is as such, that if a family is good at what they are supposed to be doing, that is keeping LCN, a "SECRET" society and NOT making head lines.
Then they would be considered DEFUNCT because we are NOT reading about them.

One thing I think we can agree on is that for the most part these guys typically dont just walk away, even when the heat is on some just cant walk away, in their 70's 80's 90's, its CRAZY if you ask me.

Why would any of them walk away if there really wasn't much of any L.E. pressure.

Lastly, crews and family's can be revived depending on a lot of different factors.

Take the Colombo's I think it was back in 2010 or so after Wild Bill got clipped
Mush when he was put back as Acting boss

Went to all the remnants of the family from both factions and said either you come back in the fold and start coming in
Or we put you on the shelf, If you are placed on the shelf you will be an enemy of the me and the Persico's moving forward.

As we know from history enemy's of the Persico's usually dont do very well.

That is just one example

You're absolutely correct Bensonhurst. If the "clan" is still bringing guys in then they are active. But if a clan only has a few stragglers from years back who are in their sixties, seventies, eighties, and those men are not active any longer...then its over! Regardless of whether they're still upright and breathing or not!

We both come out of NYC and we know that things are vastly different from the way it used to be growing up. Our neighborhoods are a mere wisp of what they once looked like. Old Italian strongholds look like the fucking United Nations nowadays. That sea change has given way to a mass exodus over the last three or four decades to the outer boroughs and out of state locations. It's just not the same anymore.

Couple that major change in demographics with the fact that most young Italian-Americans today have moved on to higher eduction and legit activities, and the fact that the government has mostly gutted the mob's presence from all the major vital industries and labor unions they once had sway over, and now "legalized" 90% of the rackets that once served to line the pockets of knock-around guys, and there you have it.

No more horse bookies; 99% of the numbers game is kaput; no more neighborhood floating crap games or high-stakes card games like blackjack etc.; slots machines are a rarity today; shylocking has stiff competition from banks, cc's, private lenders, lines of credits, etc.; truck hijacking and cargo theft off the piers is no more; cigarette smuggling has diminished 90% and whenever is left is small potatoes and is sold retail by foreigners who run delis; counterfeiting of currency, credit cards, stock certificates, and other negotiable's is no more; all the major labor unions have been seized from the guys; etc., etc., etc.....what's left is a fucking joke today!

And THATS in New York City, the mob's traditional stronghold and base nationally!...It sure as hell ain't any better in smaller, lesser controlled cities and towns out of state.

Now that NYS has legalized both sports-betting and they also legalized marijuana this year what the fuck is left to do?? Lol. It's over!

In the last ten-fifteen years sports bookmaking, and selling pot, had become two of the last few ways guys could earn out there. The mob was never big on marijuana but moved into that field as harder drugs got you heavier jail time. Now that gambling and pot is legal you gotta believe that the state is gonna compete for those dollars as well they they did with OTB and Lotto.

What's left? Selling Heroin? Cocaine? Some pharmaceutical drug diversion sales? Each of those rackets is fraught with trouble and the competition from every Tom, Dick, and Harry, is ridiculous. Blacks, Hispanics, Chinese, White independent dealers, etc., etc....it's stupid already (not to mention that the drug game is loaded with rats and weaklings and traitors who'd flip in three seconds on you given the chance).

It's a whole different ballgame today! The smarter Italian wiseguys and associates say who the fuck needs it? Most of them have gone into more legit, or semi-legit, endeavors. More profitable and less dangerous to their health and liberty. The idiots who can't see their nose in front of their faces are mostly the guys left today, and some of the younger guys who have no clue about todays reality of the mob and think there's still "glory" and "riches" to be had in it. (and of course the old-timers who are set in their ways). But thats it.

What's happening guys? New poster here. I'll preface this with I'm a Chicago guy and that is where my interest mainly lies. From what I hear they are still active, but are a shell of what they once were. Still have crews across the city, but their power has dwindled down signifantly. City has been taken over by gangbangers, and dope pushers, which is really sad. Crazy how in the last 30 years the world has changed so much that La Cosa Nostra is now basically an after thought. Looking forward to engaging in more of these threads!

Welcome to the board Big Tuna. Yes, Cosa Nostra is a shell of its former self. In its place are now street urchins and basic street crime.

Appreciate it brother. I've been coming here for a long time and will tune into your youtube stuff and your site every now and then. Keep up the good work!

Thank you. I look forward to seeing you there. We'll chat again I'm sure.

Absolutely spot on! The life today is so different from the way it was that it's almost not the same thing anymore. I'm not even sure what to call it. It's like a fucking fraternity at this point. They could induct guys forever, but what are they a part of? Try to picture The Rolling Stones without the music. That's the mob today.

N.Y. from what I have seen is areas like C.A. black market pot is thriving more than ever due to the high taxes that have been imposed by the State.

I am not disagreeing with you.

However, the LCN, in America became the power house it was mainly due to Prohibition, as they did after prohibition, they have done today and will continue to do.
They will evolve...

So long as there is a Black Market the need o service it will remain.

Not sure how it will fare here in N.Y.

Yes, today LCN, does not have much to offer a young Italian, that is capable of earning money...

That is a fact.

So the families will no doubt become smaller and smaller

A couple have gone back to their roots..

Maybe that is the answer a Borgata goes back to being a family Borgata with blood or inter marital relationships.

Maybe they team up with Italy and or Canada.

I just don't ever see it dying out completely.

The 80's, 90's and early 2000's was a terrible time to be in LCN, the risk of being clipped very high and the risk of being prosecuted with lengthy jail time equally as high.

Today I think you did or some did an article about it,
What is the average sentence meted out? Less than 5 years?

What is the likely hood that you will be clipped? Close to ZERO?

An issue I'm seeing a lot these days (especially among us Americans) is the idea that a family must have a literal army of members in order to be even considered proper LCN. That's misguided and laughably American. We are obsessed with the "biggest" this and the "largest" that...

In Italy there are tons of small crime families that held power over one single town (or a couple of neighborhoods of a city) and have less than 50 people, total. Yet, no one would dare to say they're not mafia. Why? Because they keep both their criminal and cultural rituals alive. They have making ceremonies, according to their size and scope, of course. Even if it means to have one every few years. They might not influence a national election, but they can influence the mayor of their village or elect the local representative of a city district they control. That's all you need. Enough people (even by marriage or blood) to have ceremonies and enough activities (of all kinds, including counterfeiting or other scams) to keep business open. They might not be able to import millions of euros worth of drugs, but they control a bunch of dealers in a local square. We are seeing this in the US already, particularly in places like Philly.

The golden age of the American Mob "spoiled" the public. They think that the only form the mafia can have is to be a large, global and nation-wide conspiracy. Some families still fit that profile (Gambino, Genovese) but those who don't (Colombo, Boston, ecc...) are, and will be, mafia nonetheless as long as they carry on their folklore and activities, of any kind.

I largely agree with your assessment Bensonhurst. But there's an excellent reason why you get five years today (unless its heavy drugs), and don't worry about getting clipped!

There is literally ZERO left to do! Limited gambling? Limited shylock? Big fucking deal. And the wiseguys are scared to fucking death to clip somebody. Guys are NOT dying because they found religion or didn't do wrong. Guys are not getting clipped because the bosses are scared they'll get pinched for a murder if they clip someone. (and believe you me when I tell ya that there's a ton of guys who deserve to get clipped, and years back would have gotten clipped). But its become a "kinder and gentler" Mafia today out of necessity. So sad, but so fucking true!

Thats why you got these fucking mutts, these fucking hard-ons (and I gotta call them fucking mutts and hard-ons) "rats" who walk around today in New York with no fucking fear of getting hurt. They start up podcasts, give interviews and have become media darlings, start up known businesses, dine in public restaurants in the wide open, and fraternize with the general public like they're fucking heroes without any fear of reprisals. But they are not heroes of course. They're fucking zeros!

PS: And as far as the "black market" goes and the "vices" that Cosa Nostra serviced for over a century in this country. I agree. Even legalized pot is heavily taxed. Gambling winnings are heavily taxed. So there will always be somewhat of a "market" for people looking to save a buck. The problem is that the footprint of the mob has been diminished to such as degree that providing these few services cannot, and will not, sustain the thousands of wiseguys out there as the "underworld" once did.

A few hundred? Maybe? But New York's' Five Families? With over a thousand members, and several thousand "associate-proposed members," and another ten thousand outer-ring loose "associates?" NO WAY!

My friends in NYC are sucking wind right now (good friends). Imagine five years from now? Imagine ten years from now? At this very minute for every one guy who is "well heeled" you got thirty to forty broksters (or near brokesters)...And THAT'S no bullshit either! Thats straight from the horses mouth! (I kid you not!)

Over here in Europe it's very common to have criminal organizations that got 10 to 20 core members at most. Everybody else that hangs around those core members are usually fringe wannabes, ass-kissers or dumb cannon fodder that's used to do some menial dirty work. And in this case I'm talking about top tier criminal organizations that are involved in transnational organized crime and make tons and tons of money.

I see the Outfit with their assumed 20+ core members being looked at as a dying enterprise, but the way I see it you can have an extremely viable criminal organization when you have more than 20 core members. You got to realize that in the streets for every hardcore career gangster there can be more than fifty fringe players, wannabes and suck-ups hanging around said career gangster.

True Luan. But only to a degree! Italy/Sicily is a much different beast altogether. There are borgatas over there that literally only have 10-15 members. But they ARE a recognized independent family per se nonetheless. There are hundreds of such families all across Sicily. But what we speak of in America is different. At their 1940s-1960s peak, there were only 26 known families throughout the entire U.S.A. to begin with. In the year 2022, we are down to approximately 7-9 families left (and each of those are but a wisp of what they once were, and what their total membership once was). THATS a fact!

It is a dying breed! Will they continue? Of course they will! But little by little, they will be whittled down to nothing. It might take a few more decades (I don't doubt that at all). But there are way too many negative influences and forces working against them to ever consider differently. To do so is to defy logic and to stay with a blindfold on.

I never in my life thought I would say this, but the world has changed!

Come off it, yesteryears Chicago outfit is no better than today's gangbangers.

Thats not true dsd. Not at all. The fact is that yesteryear's "Chicago Outfit" was a powerhouse! That particular family controlled ALL of Chitown and its outer territories with an iron fist. Their control over local and state politics alone was enormous. So enormous that they even installed "made men" into leadership positions of government. Alderman, Committeemen, Congressmen, key government posts, etc.

If you add in their pivotal hidden ownership and control over many top Las Vegas Hotels & Casino operations....need I say more?

NO gangbanger has ever even dreamed of that, let alone accomplished anywhere close to that. They grovel in the streets with their pants slung down over their asses and gaudy gold chains around their necks while they sell dime bags and shoot each other (and citizens too).

The difference between the old Capone Gang, morphed into the Tony Accardo-Paul DeLucia family, and street urchin "gangbangers" couldn't be more blaring that it's like "black and white."

I fucking love Capone. I'd have to say that my favorite mob bosses are Al Capone, Tommy Lucchese, Tony Accardo, Raymond Patriarca, and Vito Rizzuto, among others. Tommy Lucchese tops the list. If anyone had a photo of Tommy Gagliano and Tommy Lucchese together, I'd pay money, lol. I think it would be awesome to make Mafia trading cards lol. I'd say from the Irish side my favorite is Jimmy Burke or Legs Diamond. Jewish would have to be Lepke Buchalter or Bugsy Siegle. Anyway, you're exactly right, no comparison between the old Chicago Outfit and today's gutter trash.

Some people like to feel as if they belong to something, especially those with low self esteem. Add that to someone who doesnt want to work and the mob will always be around. All these young mob wanna be’s are basically a bunch of kids with low self esteem and a lack of confidence. Being recognized for violence or any other sort of crime by a wiseguy is instant gratification. Its an easy way to accomplish something.

True

I agree with that. Those of us who grew up on mob movies, and following the Philadelphia war in the papers, or seeing Gotti on the news, will not see that again. (Probably for the best for everyone, as there was a lot of killing) But that does not mean that mob guys are not still doing business, making money. I think they changed with the times, like every other business changes, for better or worse.

I don't see how it lasts much longer unless they open up to other people. Families are smaller and the odds a full Italian marries another full Italian and has kids that want in the life are less and less. Not to mention the rats, surveillance technology and now the gov stealing all the rackets. We would need Russia to invade Italy to get a mass immigration to come over here or something.

Even if millions of Italian came to America there would not be a mob forming, it's different world, a different nation, and they would fit right in to society.

Every industry has changed so much in the past 20 years.

Bigger isn't always better, as a matter of fact in my opinion if you look at some of the most successful families in the history of America, they were smaller ones.

I keep bringing up Detroit, look at what they did, I think they all sent their sons to collage to get degrees, They also purchased them Legit businesses before they brought them into the family.

Talk about a smarter way of doing things?

If they invested the 10's of millions of dollars into legit businesses and their core is legit while still dabbling in the traditional LCN, activities? Is that NOT a smarter way of doing things?

So the next generation of Detroit LCN, their sons and nephews did not have to rely on selling DOPE, or Beating down loan shark customers they lent $1,000.00

They started them out at 3rd base so to speak.

The GOAL is to make L.E. think you are DEFUNCT, so they LEAVE YOU ALONE!!!

By design if you go back to its roots it was supposed to be more so blood relationships or LIKE blood. (LONG VETTED HISTORY)
That is what the whole pricking of finger is "BOUND BY BLOOD"

Small and tight, if you are committing felonies every day you are way better off with having to worry about 50 guys rather than 250.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

Pot is legal now, in Oregon all drugs are legal, WHATS NEXT?

Look at the waterfront commission if they do away with that, good chance they will thrive again on the Piers.

The world we live in so crazy and unpredictable.

Look what happened with the CORONA and the BLM, "PEACEFUL RIOTS" where buildings were being burned down and police stations were being over run,
I am not sure if anyone on here read the article in bensonhurst and in Queens you had what was left of the Italians and the Albanians basically banded together they were ready to send BLM. back to where they came from, but they never showed.

If that is where this country is headed and it very well might be, the same neighborhoods that had no use for the neighborhood social club, anymore will be the same neighborhoods that will be begging to bring them back, wand the sense of security that went along with it.

And let me say it again, LCN is a shell of what it was, Compared to its height it is DEAD.

So I am not disagreeing with the assessments I am just providing a different perspective on the matter.

Very good observations Bensonhurst, and I'd have to agree with your general assessment of the mob's "state of affairs."

Yes, reliable people close to me from NY told me exactly this. They were all stunned to see how quickly people went back to their roots when pushes came to shoves. Which is very important considering the good point made by BensonHURST.

You never know what a man can do if pushed around enough. Law-abiding citizens may turn to the mafia because they have no where else to go to. I’m certainly not advocating it, because it’s a deadly trap, but how do I know what anyone would be willing to do if he’s left with close to nothing? Anger, despair, mistrust of Govt. and economic uncertainty can turn almost anyone into a crook, even all those middle class Italian-Americans so often branded as successful examples of cultural integration and Americanization.

Let’s not kid ourselves here: how many people approached mob loan sharks in the last two years? How many will do it in the future due to this crap economy? How many might even take a step into the mob not only as mere ”costumers” but actively involved? How much has the LCN increased its power during the last two crappy years? Perhaps not globally, but indeed locally, which is where it truly counts.

We have reports that confirmed this happened in most Italian cities, so I’m supposed to believe that is exclusive to Italy and that it doesn't/can’t happen in NY, Jersey, Philly…? Of course it can. It’s that we’re still in the middle of it to fully see its consequences.

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