are there examples of non-pure italians being made

in certain American families throughout the decades

was Meyer Lansky made? He was Jewish, but he seemed to have a high position in the Genovese family with being an associate of Luciano?

are there rare exceptions of this happening?

No non-Italians have been made, ever. BUT, the saying goes, only people who are a 100% Italian can be made, which I believe hasnt held up since the 70s. Many half Italians and these days people who are 1/16th Italian have been and get made, why? Noone is 100% Italian in America anymore. It mostly goes by heritage nowadays.

Tons of non-Italians have got made. Look at the OutFit. Asians, Russians, Jews and God knows who else all getting made.

The Rizzuto family made that French guy, what's his name...

tons? i never heard of any in united states or italy, the only one are maybe desjardin and a couple other in canada

Salemme is half irish and Charles Porter was not even italian from the father side but was made.
Today there not many made men that are full blooded italian.

That is such an absolutely false and ridiculous claim. Beyond the Mafia-related discussion, I’m shocked that someone living in America could come up with it. Demographically speaking there are obviously tons (and I mean tons) of full blooded Italian-Americans. Regardless of their generation. Especially in large Italian enclaves along the Atlantic seaboard, Upstate/Western NY and the Rustbelt.

No excuses for not knowing this, even if you’re an hermit living out in the sticks in AK. If you’ve got “the internet” to access to this forum you sure can check Census sites, sociology and cultural anthropology publications and articles focusing on Italian-American Studies.

Contemporary Italian culture in the USA and Canada goes well beyond the Mafia.

Back on topic, Mafia-wise, even though there have been examples of non-100% Italians getting made they have always been an exception to the rule. Besides, recently, at least in NYC, they’ve gone back to the 100% rule, allegedly.

I may be getting too old for today’s web standards so I don’t know if you’re serious or just poking fun.



Those were unconfirmed rumors. Joe Bravo was bragging about getting his button along with Reynald Desjardins. Most knowledgeable posters/reporters didn’t buy it, not even for a second. They were “high-ranking” associates like in the Outfit.

Fucking TONS

I had a quick look on the net for some recent examples of non-Italian made guys but my five minute search turned up nothing. It's getting late but I'll try again tomorrow

If you're not born in Italy you're not 100% Italian. Facts. I'm from Europe. Not the US.

Ouimette or something. Not made. Not inducted trough ceremony. There's a difference between being made and being associated.

This statement is wrong for so many reasons (sociological, political, cultural, etc...), and it has been debunked countless times in the academia, that it would be a waste of a thread to tackle them all.



The fact that you’re from “Europe” (as if that’s a definitive description of a highly diverse continent made of many different nations, each with its distinct and unique culture, history and ethnicity) confirms that you should definitely stay on the sidelines when discussing America’s own cultural realities and possibly even the consequences of its immigration history.

If you’ll do that with an open mind you may learn something new.

But not now, I come here for organized crime news and information, not to do some extra curricular teaching work.

Tons of Asian made members in Chicago, uh? No wonder they have a “Chinatown Crew”.

This forum never ceases to entertain...

Let's be honest now. Relating it to the thread. Because it IS related. These Americans with Italian roots, whose great grandparents were born in Italy are NOT 100% Italian, that's not how it works. Thus it stands that it no longer holds up that made men are no longer required to be 100% italian. Right?

gerard outimette was an associate of the patriarca family in RI

neo is talking about reynald desjardins, who i don't think was made, he was just very close to vito like joe bravo was. joe bravo said they were made, then ended up dead.

idk what neo is talking about when it comes to asian members or any of that though. never heard of that.

I’m honest, and so are you when you share your take on this topic.

That said, we will never agree because we disagree on the very basic idea of what “100% Italian” stands for. I have gathered a certain experience (personal, professional, academic) that makes it impossible to agree with you on this matter.

Luckily this thread doesn’t require our agreement to continue.

Raynald was never made.....

No Ouimette had his own crew under the Patriarca's of non made Irish, French, and Italian guys. raynald desjardins was with the rizzutos and not made.

yes, there are people made who are not italian on mother side, but i never heard of somebody non-italian made, porter was italian, although very few there are italian surnames which do not end with a vowel

Oh boy, I'm taking a peak after it's been a while and what do I read?

The Chicago Outfit currently making everybody from Irish Travellers to Pakistanis...

The Outfit never made a non-Italian. They always had lots of "associates" that were non-Italian, but I'm willing to bet there hasn't been a single non-Italian made guy in the Outfit ever.

As for New York. Of course one could say that Italian-Americans and Italians from the European motherland are worlds apart culture-wise, but there's still plenty of Italian-Americans that are full-blooded Italian ancestry-wise over in NY and NJ. Anybody who thinks that the NY mafia doesn't have an "Italian" recruitment pool anymore is being ridiculous. Sure you don't have endless bands of young Italian-American hoodlums running around in Bensonhurst anymore that are ripe to be picked off the street by some experienced wiseguy, but there's more than enough of them still willing to step into that life to make sure that the Mob doesn't have to start making Russians, Albanians, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans or African Americans to stay viable. It will take at least a couple of generations before that recruitment pool will be completely diminished.

Made guys in the NY Mob are still for close to 100% full-blooded Italian ancestry-wise. There have been exceptions, but those always were few and far between.

And I as well am going to echo the statement made by others: Desjardins was never made. 'Joe Bravo' Fernandez was a Spanish cokehead who probably had his nose stuck in too much of the white powder when he allegedly made those statements, but neither of them were made guys.

Sicilians aren't even 100% Italian because they have mixed genes. This is due to the fact that a few centuries back the Moors conquered Sicily and interbreed with Sicilian women and in doing so, forever changed the Sicilian blood line for ever.

Sicilians are part Africans. So those Sicilian made guys in NY aren't 100% full-blooded Italians.

^ holy hell not this all over again.

Are people still believing this in 2019? It has been debunked countless times.

I guess that pop-culture/urban legends/Quentin Tarantino are valued more highly than actual history books.

As an Italian living in the Atlantic seaboard, this great post by LuanKuci should just end this thread.

Ok, Dennis Hopper.

On a second thought I shouldn’t be surprised given that the same poster implied that the Chicago Outfit made people of Asian, Russian, Jewish etc... descent.




Funniest thing is that, in that scene, it’s clear that not even Hopper’s character believes it, he’s just saying that to mock Walken’s character, passively showing his ignorance about his own heritage and, most importantly, get a quick, painless death rather than being tortured.

To be honest, it's true that a lot of Italians probably aren't of 100% Italic stock (meaning that they descended from the ancient Italic tribes). For instance, I got a few friends that are of Calabrian ancestry that did an ancestral test just for shits and giggles and found out that for a large part they could trace their lineage back to Greece. It's only natural that people that passed through a region left their genetic marker. Sicily for instance is a very varied place. I know a blonde Sicilian and a ginger-haired one, just like I know a Sicilian who could pass for a Lebanese. The question is though, would these people claim to be anything other than "Italian"? Of course not.
(ignoring the fact that a Sicilian will always claim to be Sicilian first and foremost )

When push comes to shove, almost everybody in Europe is mixed somewhere down the line. When I did an ancestral test, I could trace my lineage back to Germany, Spain, Italy, France and Scandinavia.

Even Toto Riina is of Greek origin.

He was of Arbëreshë ancestry, not Greek. They were Albanians who fled the balkans due to Ottoman colonialism between the 1300’s and the mid-1700’s. They were allowed to seek refugee in Southern Italy by the Church.

Greeks did flee as well, but they mostly settled in Calabria and Basilicata, only few communities were established in Sicily.

I read Greek immigrants, however they all belonged to the Roman Empire.

^ so that’s an even earlier generation than the one I referred to. Still, I argue that his last name is more Arbëresh than Greek. Although both were Romanized throughout the centuries.

very hard to trace riina ancestry, 'riina' in sicilian dialect mean 'queen', anyway corleone town is not arberesh or greek, so i doubt he's of that origin

Italy has been conquered more times than any of the larger European countries.. So if you wanna get technical about it well then you know..

Chicago had tons of non Italians guys in power positions but they never cared about that stuff anyways really and seemed separate from Cosa Nostra. I’ve read they haven’t made anyone since the early 80’s and aren’t into the ceremony thing. Clearly being italian doesn’t preclude anyone from snitching so I think they had it right.

Joe Watts and the Lufthansa guy are the only powerful non Italian New York guys I can think of. Sheerhan said he was never made.

any italian-american in 2019 is just American with Italian ancestry, 100% means born in the respective country.

How many of these Italian/Americans can even speak Italian!

Exactly. But when they say their ancestry/lineage is 100% Italian theyre correct if for generations upon generations they have only bred with other italians. But it's still not the same. They're heavily Americanized.

Junior Gotti...Half jew and he was a friggin boss..Can you believe that ??

Tommy Del Giorno.

First and Second generations and maybe some Third.

You expect first and maybe second generations to be able to speak some Italian.

But I guess hardly any of those who would say they are true Italian stock speak Italian these days.

21% of individuals identifying as Italian-Americans speak Italian fluently, as of the last US Census surveys from 2013 to 2017.

That’s around 3.4 million people. Not counting those who speak regional dialects very well but not Italian and all those Italian permanent residents/immigrants and citizens who didn’t care (or couldn’t in case of some immigrant classes) to fill out the Census form to begin with. So that % is in the negative.

Remember that early Italian immigrants (1870’s — 1930’s) didn’t speak Italian at all. Which is why the 1970’s — 1980’s where the decades when Italian reached its peaked diffusion in America. The majority of them received basic education.

Andy campos is one I think . the rest I’ve heard of have already been mentioned - frank salemme , Tommy del, junior gotti, Chucky Porter. There’s blatantly loads more. Usually it seems they can get away with it if the surname is Italian I think.

Henry hill has as much of a right (bloodwise) to be made as the above mentioned names!