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Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ?

Posted By: 2a

Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/02/18 12:39 AM



Pretty much all information regarding organized crime concerns the modern age . Naturally I could be ignorant of things , which is why I'm curious to know if organized crime existed in ( say ) ancient Rome or Babylon or even the Middle Ages .
Posted By: MightyDR

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/02/18 04:26 AM

I don't know much about pre-20th century history, but based on what I've read in those times the king/emperor/state whatever had a lot more authority which would have made it a lot more difficult for any sort of street level organized crime to flourish. Plus punishments were more severe.
Posted By: Beenaround

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/02/18 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by 2a


Pretty much all information regarding organized crime concerns the modern age . Naturally I could be ignorant of things , which is why I'm curious to know if organized crime existed in ( say ) ancient Rome or Babylon or even the Middle Ages .



It was called The Pope back then lol
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/02/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by MightyDR
I don't know much about pre-20th century history, but based on what I've read in those times the king/emperor/state whatever had a lot more authority which would have made it a lot more difficult for any sort of street level organized crime to flourish. Plus punishments were more severe.


Even with all the torture and severe punishments in the Middle Ages there were plenty of outlaws,
Posted By: jace

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 01:45 AM

If they could travel and communicate long distance in ancient times they would have organized. They could not so they stayed located in all pockets. So I think yes, it is a modern age thing for that reason.
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 03:18 AM

In Europe in the Middle Ages and later, "highwaymen" (bands of criminals) would waylay travelers on roads and rob or kill them. Asian countries throughout the ages had gangs of "bandits" that preyed on travelers and sometimes shook down villages and towns. Some Chinese provinces were dominated by "warlords" who were organized armies of thieves, into the 20th Century. Beginning in mid-19th Century, some large American cities had gangs of ethnics who shook down their neighborhoods, as did the "Black Hand" later.
Posted By: m2w

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 07:09 AM

it seems that all the oldest organized crime groups (italian mafia, yakuza and triads) were born in 1800s there are not proof they were alive before, anyway probably criminals used by noblemen was so common that it was not even considered organized crime
Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 09:13 AM

In the 15th century in spain there was the Garduna that was a pyramidal group which activities included street crimes like murders,extortions,pimping from carry murders of powerful people and search infos for blackmail import people and gave impunity to the street members.
The garduna was the mother of camorra,ndrangheta e mafia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

The thugs was a criminal secret society of killers and robbers born in the middle age india. The made human sacrifices to goddess Kali and was completly disbanded by english army in 1857. The word Thug derive by their name.

Posted By: Nitro

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 11:11 AM

Germany: (mostly Swabian,Bavaria, Pflaz, Hessen)
Between 1750 ~ 1850 you will find a lot so called "Räuberbande". They were more or less organized. But share all a subculture. So it's start with a own dialect "Rotwelsch". They were not fix in one city. Travelling alot. And social background was disruption as a result in consequence of the napoleon's war.

Famous groups are

Schinderhannesbande
Wetterauer und Vogelsberger Bande
Hannikel Group

They had different activitys but mostly Robbery, Burglary, fesncing, Pimping.

famouse case was Konztanzer Hans he was a rat: Betrayed 500 thiefs/thugs and a lot places (brothels...).
Posted By: Nitro

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 11:24 AM

I think something like a "criminal underworld" exist in every kind of state's.
How strong such thing organzed had to do with the state and society.

OC mostly connected with the legal power. IMO that's the key to unterstand OC groups. Without a connection between them you have only some
criminals.

So i think you will find some kind of OC in Venezia, Genova, Florence (12-14. AC). I heard Paris in the middle age had groups.

I'm sure Paris had kind of OC groups through the time
Posted By: m2w

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 09:18 PM

the garduna was a legend, it never existed aside some cervantes books
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/03/18 10:19 PM

In the 18th century we had the buckriders

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckriders
Posted By: 2a

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/18/18 03:33 PM




Yeah I was gonna say that that I thought that the Garduna has never been proven to exist either .
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/19/18 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by 2a



Yeah I was gonna say that that I thought that the Garduna has never been proven to exist either .


The grip of the Arab leaders was huge on Spain. So I think it was more an Christian uprising against the Muslims. The bandits were the leaders of the poor.
Posted By: CartelSpy

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/19/18 01:22 PM

I guess pirates would be considered organized crime since they were organizations with a captain and leaders.
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/19/18 01:26 PM

Gang Warfare in 18th Century Boston

https://outofthiscentury.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/18th-century-gang-warfare-in-boston/
Posted By: m2w

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/19/18 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by CartelSpy
I guess pirates would be considered organized crime since they were organizations with a captain and leaders.


yes i agree pirates were a sort of organized crime, they also had often links with governments
anyway i think ta that time the concept of 'organized crime' simply didn't exist, because was very common for politicians and nobles to use criminals for dirty works
Posted By: 2a

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/23/18 06:12 PM



Yeah come to think of it organized crime in the form of groups of bandits has always existed , it's just that it took for the modern age to come around in order for mob groups , street gangs , and prison gangs to come into existence . Kinda obvious really lol .
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/27/18 09:30 AM

The Beati Paoli was a medieval secret society that preceded today's Mafia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beati_Paoli
Posted By: m2w

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/27/18 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hollander
The Beati Paoli was a medieval secret society that preceded today's Mafia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beati_Paoli

they never existed just a legend
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Is organized crime a modern age phenomenon ? - 10/31/18 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Hollander
The Beati Paoli was a medieval secret society that preceded today's Mafia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beati_Paoli

they never existed just a legend


Urban legends have a basis in fact. wink
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