Would wild bill cutolo of made a move?

As said in the title would he of made a move when ally boy was going to be away from the street? We’re they right to clip him for thinking he would of?

Never asked the question before. My thoughts was that after the whole Orena war cutolo would’ve left it with the Persicos to stay in power. Ally boy must’ve been seriously worried to clip him.

However cutolo was one of Orenas main men so who knows what he would’ve done...

I thought he was murdered years after the fact because he was on the opposing side during the war, it was simply payback / a grudge. They were tying up loose ends? Not necessarily that he was going to make any move to assume control of the organization.

Little Allie Boy was prepping to go to prison on the gun charge. Allegedly, it was assumed that Wild Bill - the titular underboss - was going to make a play for power while Allie was inside. That's why he was whacked. It wasn't just an out-of-the-blue thing.

Do you think he would of made the move?

Little Allie Boy knows better than anybody on the forum does. And he clearly thought the risk was great enough. You gotta understand that William Cutolo was probably the most active and violent capo in the Orena camp during the war.

Thanks Nicky very interesting. Was cutolo a big hitter then?

i mean he probaly regrets ordering that murder. jack deross brought bill cutolo into the family back in the early 80tys. was his best man at wedding i read. why they didnt just make deross the acting boss. bill cutolo should have been on his toes surprised they rocked him to sleep. if i remember rite cutolo mechanic drives him to that park, tommy gioeli picks him drives him to that guy dino sarciino parents house were hes to meet allie boy walks in gets 1 in the head. should have seen it coming. he must have known tommy shots crew was responcible for killing the cop in 1997 rite? would have avoided that meeting. how pissed must have been allie boy who was free on the street in 1997 that tommys crew killed a cop kinda makes me think joel cacace never orderd that hit. it would put him in the dog house. massino would have been pissed broke the secred rule no killing cops thats worse then killing a boss

A capo in the Genovese family killed a cop in the eighties and it didn't hurt his standing.

If joel cacace never ordered the hit, then why would ralph dols have been killed?

i dont know 2 jurys 1 for joel waverly didnt believe he orderd it 1 for tommy shoyts didnt believe it. did they shot the cop to impress gioeli then he told them wtf did you do never tell a soul or your dead. ala the sopranos when the 2 guys robbed the card game to impress forgot rlphy. im pretty sure allie boys acting boss 1997 maybe hes in florida but im sure hes around brooklyn running that limo place just crazy a capo would have cop killed while there reorganizing the family. they wernt allowed to make new mebers during that time cause they were so screwed up

the genovese thing was a spur of the moment thign i think like that wasnt a hit or planned.

Regarding the events of Cutolo's murder, pmac's got it pretty much right but I'll just clarify a bit more:
Capo Tommy Gioeli drove underboss Cutolo to associate Dino Saracino's Bensonhurst home for a purported sitdown with acting boss Little Allie Boy. Associate Dino Calabro met with Cutolo in the driveway and shook his hand.
"We shook hands," Calabro testified at Gioeli's trial. "He said, 'Allie's here, right? Where are we going?'""He went in, and I followed him and pulled out my gun and shot him in the head. He just went 'Whoa,' and fell backward into the closet."
To cover up the crime, Cutolo's watch, beeper and jewelry were mixed into a bucket filled with concrete and dumped off a Brooklyn pier. The body was wrapped in garbage bags, hog-tied and buried in Farmingdale, L.I. by the two Dinos as well as Calabro's brother, Anthony 'Nooch.' Gioeli waited in a Dunkin' Donuts while his henchmen put Cutolo into the ground, Calabro said.

I still dont see how cutolo wouldnt of sensed a set up. Why would the acting boss of a family set up a meeting at an associate’s house? And why would cutolo of trusted tommy Gioeli and his crew? The Gioeli crew had a reputation as bein the colombo’s go-to crew when a murder needed to be done. Cutolo seemed very ignorant.

At the time Wild Bill, and his crew were very powerful, they were making a ton of money, had a big crew with a couple of shooters.

People.on the street thought Bill would try to make a move.

Mikey Scars who was friends with Allie Boy gave Allie a heads up, a warning telling him that Bill, was acting like a boss.

So did Scarpa'a wife she also approached Alllie Boy and said the same thing.

I am sure Allie regrets it the Feds were closing in on Wild Bill he probably would have gotten 20, 30 etc.

Ali got life because of the Wild Bill murder

Sounds like he thought it was a setup or knew it was a set up, just got caught slipping. Alotta people don't go with their first instinct and end up in trouble

His son is the opposite. I remember I set up an interview with Cutolo Jr and a guy from Jersey who had a few roles in the Sopranos bar scene and SNL with a Robert De Niro. If I remember correctly he told me he had Genovese lineage

He had no choice but to eventually go in and meet with Persico

If the boss calls you in you have to come in.

It wasn't that he was ignorant

They tried to get Joe Campanella to take him out however, he turned it down and was marked for death because of it.

He ended up eventually flipping.
As he had no other options his family was trying to kill him, he was locked up, his crew was taken away from him he could not earn, so he flipped.

That's one of the fuct up parts about LCN, more back in the day than now.

If you were sent for you had to come in or you were marked for death.

If you were marked for death already you are coming to get whacked, guys know where they stand however, isn't a whole lot that could be done about it.

Never want to be in that position talk about a rick and a hard place.

Bensonhurst I have question, . is Capmanella the man who ratted and stayed in Brooklyn living openly, and was he a member or an associate?

It would almost make someone want to live a legitimate lifestyle and not be a scumbag criminal.

What about the Colombo associate who tried to do exactly that and leave NY and they whacked him for asking to leave! It was tommy shots crew that done it. They thought he would be a liability for the future.

Precisely!! When the boss sends for u, there’s not a lot of options. You can do several things

1. Turn up and hope for the best (which is what Bill and a lot of others did)

2. Not turn up (that would be a sign of disrespect, and you will be marked for death/ considered challenging the admin) ie Louie Dibono

3. Show up with backup (when Gotti jr set up
A meet with Johnny G) Mikey Scars said he showed up with Joe Watts, Marino, a cousin plus a limo driver. Had Bill shown up with his crew, it’ll be a sign of disrespect plus let’s just suppose for argument sake there were NO problems

By showing up with a crew, u will create a problem
for yourself. Bill would be advertising to Persico he’s making ‘moves’ and being paranoid. Not to mention, again assuming there’s no problems and u show up with bodyguards- you’ll be laughed at for being ‘scared’ which is the opposite of a man of honour.. well tough guy in this day n age

That’s true and there were no recent problems if I’m correct just historical orena war memories from earlier on in the decade

Jace

Sorry I haven't been on here in a while.

Joe Campanella is a made member and was brought up by Wild Bill, he was in Bills crew until they had a falling out I believe about money from wall-street.

After he flipped he went into wit-sec for short period of time and than he left.

He didn't come back to BensonHURST however, I believe he was living upstate not to far away out in the open.

In the late 90's Wild Bill's crew was raking in BIG, BIG money...

They were in everyone's face shaking people down, they were a force to be wrekened with.

They were taking respect.

There presence was seen and felt.

I am pretty sure that and as I mentioned you had Mike Scars who thought Wild Bill was going to kill Persico, Scars was friends with Persico and he has a talk with Persico and Scarpa'a wife getting in Allie Boys ear.

Coupled with the hard feelings from the war.

It was.the perfect storm.

Great stuff Bensonhurst.

bill was just made underboss, looks like that was done to relax him..

hello nicky. your picture is nick rizzo?

Seems like by 1999 the persicos had there house in order. Scopo was murderd orena doing life who would have backed cutolo. Joel cacace was in persicos camp i trying to remmeber who the heavest colombo guys on the street probaly sonny if he was out. Wonder what there relationship was

I personally think Gotti played a huge part in the war.

He had Massino, on his side as he was responsible for re-instating the Bonnnano's to the commission.

He had taken over the Decav's.

The Colombo's were ripe for the taken.

Scopo and Orena and Wild Bill were very close to Gotti.

I think that played a big part in the move Orena and c/o made.

Obviously Wild Bill didn't have all that backing when he disappeared.

Also, At the time a bunch of his crew either were recently indicted and/or about to be indicted.

At the time it was one of the biggest wall street scams to be prosecuted.

The news was all over it.
As were the Feds.

You never know however, anyone that flipped that was in the know not one said Wild Bill was even thinking about a move.

MY opinion is that no he wasn t going to make a move.

Very interesting stuff Bhurst. Didn’t know bills crew was that powerful. What is left of that crew who is in charge now?

Scarpas wife getting in ally’s ear? Can you explain that pls

When you put Gotti like that it sounds impressive in terms of what he done with other families.. didn’t he also put Stanfa in (or his admin did with his approval from the bin) as boss of philly.

I don’t know what Allie knew but for Bill it would of been stupid to flex at all during that time because after Allie went away Bill would of had a much easier time if he was thinking of it .

It all could of been a little of everything Bill was great at his job and had a nice crew and had no problems earning so to me for him to do anything out norm was just stupid.
There is always just Allie using Bill being on the other side first in the war and the fact that he was boss material and earning power Allie may of just wanted to even the field .

That’s true he should’ve waited then made his move! Might’ve all been out of his control though. If he started making weak moves he would’ve lost his chance of making boss when he needed to.

Was there a backlash from any of his crew?

That Jackie DeRoss came across as an evil guy the way he intimidated the family after. Too much.

From allies point of view it was the right move in theory. Now he is paying for that “right” move forever

That's right forgot about Philly too.
Seems like Gotti tried to take everything over just about.

A lot of the power comes from the money

Those guys were earning with 3 fists.

You would walk into a club in N.Y.C. they had an enterouge at times 20-30 deep, buying Crystal, like they were movie stars.

I remember they went to the Bahamas 100 deep, crazy...

They were to BensonHURST a mini version of what Gotti was to Howard Beach.

Sorry can't answer the now questions as I am no longer around any of those guys.

The guys I know and run into from time to time really go out of there way to be invisible.

More than a handful are lending money via cash advances on down town wall street. Give it some time you will be reading about that business in the not so distant future.

After Bill, got clipped and Bills two biggest earners went away for 7-8 years, a lot of their younger guys were taken over by Lil Dino for a while, then in 2008 he got knocked and ended up getting like 50 years for trying to get the guys who killed his younger brother Frankie. Don't know where they stand now.

Scarpa' s wife had spoke to Allie Boy and told him that Wild Bill, was in the streets acting like the boss of the family.

I read that in an article somewhere.
It was a long time ago I don't remember where.

For all his flaws with being too flashy Gotti knew how to play lcn as well as anyone. He obviously had balls the size of dinosaurs;

He takes over his aging capos crew as an associate.
He manages to organise a coup against a longstanding boss who goes back Appalachin (when Gotti would’ve been a snot nosed 16 yr old)
He gets Bonannoa reinstated on the commission
He organises a civil war behind the scenes backing orena and calling for carmines resignation openly (he even had the audacity to call snake a rat for some bs reasons)
He puts Stanfa in as boss of Philly.

All from nothing. His family had no lineage in the mob and had no money coming up. All self made.

Obviously gotti been done more than anyone over and over again but he really done amazing from. Nothing. No wonder he was happy to be lifed off in his 50s.

And I’m surprised lil Dino hasn’t managed to get that 50 reduced as he skated on the murders.

And never knew about scarpas wife speaking to ally boy. How random is that was he screwing her?

Liborio,

I agree for the most part when you hear Gotti you hear how bad of a boss's he was.

Everyboss made mistakes look at the family under Castallano, there was a really big divide the family was split in two.

If you look at each respective family,
what they were all GREAT bosses compared to Gotti?

Go down line see how that looks?
Vic and Gas? Persico? Massino?
Etc... Etc..
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Scarpa'a wife I tried to find the article and could not. I believe it was under the context of her asking Allie Boy what happened to Scarpa'a money that I guess she wanted some and Allie had told her there was no money.

In the end Scarpa, was a rat however, he did help Allie, get off the hook from charges from the war, on his death bed he signed a confession that stated Persico, had no Knowledge and/or did not order any of the guys Scarpa killed to be killed.

Anyhow I believe the meeting was about that and Will Bill came up.
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As for Lil Dino.

He really got it in the ass.

1) A very close friend he grew up with wore a wire against him to help the Feds build a case. David Gordan.

2) He didn't know he was killing a cop.
That was really FUCKED up he could have faced the death penalty for it.

3) His older cousin who brought him into the life flipped on him.

4) Joey Caves a very close friend they came up together in the streets of bensonhurst flipped on him.

5) His younger brother Frankie was killed over B.S.

6) His older brother Sebby flipped on him.

7) He beats the MURDER charges and still got 50 years. UNHEARD OF. You got guys that get convicted of murder and get 20 years or multiple murders they get 30 years.

IN AMERICA?

8) He got convicted attempting to avenge his brothers death. Had it not been for that charge he would have walked out.

If his brother, cousin and best friends didn't flip he probably gets offered a sweet plea deal or would have beat the last charge as well.

He made his choices and has no one to blame but himself.

They mostly all intimidate at minimum when they is anything left of the OC family even some go after a blood family member that has something hanging over there head or any reason the get the rest of the dead guys family pay up.

Great stuff ....

It’s a horrible / great life “ when they are rolling and loving all that the life offers especially if you put your time in then start making good money but then the reaper comes calling and the dogs start flipping on blood !

Serp,

Please tell if it used to be the same down in Philly as it was here in Brooklyn.

When an associate was involved in a murder all the other associates and people in the know would all of a sudden treat that guy like he was a celebrity.

What I mean ito say a guy was involved in a hit, within a short period when the neighborhood found out about it, when he would come out to a night club, he now walked right in front of the line and not have to pay.

If he went to a restaurant he wouldn't wait for a table they would open something up for him right away.

He walked into a deli and not have to pay.

People in the neighborhood would start to worship that guy. There was a buzz "That guy is with such and such crew and he put in work"

I remember when I was a kid and worked in a deli a few blocks away from 13th ave,
and Greg Scarpa walked in and I didn't know who he was at the time. I charged him for his coffee and cigarettes,

lol the owner walked in right when Greg, walked out and almost had a heart attack he asked me what happened? I said what do you mean? He said you dont know who that is? I said no,
he said you will, he called Greg back in and I gave him his money back and apologised to him, the owner shit himself he was so scared he kept apologizing to Greg,

The same goes when a guy got his button he was the talk of the town.

Lol it's hard to explain a guy would get up his button and it felt like everyone would look up to him.

That was part of the draw in the lifestyle people don't understand how and why guys get involved.

Growing up in an Italian neighborhood these guys had it all or it certainly felt that way. The money, power, respect then the women would throw themselves at them, and the movie start treatment.

It's not like that anymore around here especially in Brooklyn, LCN doesn't have the lure it used to have that's for shit sure.

Was Scarpa really as terrifying as told? I mean in demeanor (his reputation spoke for itself)?

so allies acting boss in 1999 he made wild bill cutolo his underboss in 97 or 98 i read somwhere even bill was surprised when he was offerd the position. back to 99 is joel waverly cacace the consig. im guessing probaly cause in 2000 he wen to massino mini commission meeting representing the colombo family thats where he asked to induct a new members massino and peter gotti said 2 new guys that when big dino calabro and luca d......... were inducted in 2000

I never had any real interactions with him.
Other than him coming into the deli I used to work at.

And he was always at a local kitchenette Tony's.

When he would walk in everyone would stop. People would kiss his ass and be really nice to him.

Everyone knew his rep and his crew was huge.

On Halloween every year all the kids from the neighborhood would go bombing basically get cans if shaving cream and buy cases of eggs to throw at each other.

We would just bomb everything and everyone in sight.

Just dumb kids being dumb trying to have fun.

Scarpa'a son passed by in a car and slowed down because he thought he was invincible because of his father.

A couple of the kids threw eggs at the car.

They didn't know who he was.

I had left I wanted no part of that.
I had a bad feeling.

I walked one way towards my house. The kid Domenick walked towards 13th ave, as thats where he lived.

Scarpa'a son went to his father's crew they came back and caught up to Domenick, as he was walking home and they killed him with a shot gun.

It was a shame because that kid was such a good kid and didn't throw any eggs at the car.

Shit like that happened from time to time in the neighborhood the wiseguys, or the wannabe's would whack an innocent kid, wrong place, wrong time.

Young kids wanted to get involved in the life and be gangsters, they would get in over their heads, and there was no where to turn. You couldn't go to the cops, either you knew a wiseguy to save ur ass, or you left the neighborhood, OR..........

Damn...killing a kid over a couple of thrown eggs. That's messed up.

then greg and joey killed another 17yr old patrick porco cause he was in the car with joey and was a witness to the holloween murder. the da charge fbi agent lin d with porco murder but it was dropped. i think theres no way in hell the agent would tell greg to kill a 17 yr old who may be talking. bullshit the da was reaching. he was a dirty fbi agent like the boston guys the da just wanted headlines. how did the colombo family not put greg on the shelf if they new him and his kid are killing kids over bullshit. the whole family should have shelved them they must have known. porcos uncle was a bonanno capo. maybe greg and joey didnt tell anyone. it not mentiond in larry mazzas book

They didn't call him the "Grim Reaper" for nothing, but in regards to stories like these it looks like Scarpa's a serious contender for the title of "biggest piece of shit in the mob ever".

Hundred percent agree, but he was a brilliant earner, had a large crew of capable hitter, and wasn't afraid to do work himself.

Yes it was same deal .... it was not long before it came out .... people on here or ones that used to be on here would start all kinds of shit with me telling stuff they just could not believe it .

I don’t tell one tenth of what I know especially a with Persico’s I very very rarely do I say anything that’s not known by many (other then stuff we did up at the farm as teenagers and young men) because I still have a relationship with many of them and I can explain in a PM but not here other then I’ve known the family since early 70,s that was done by my blood the reason I know Scarf is because I grew up on Georgia ave a stone throw from them .

Definitely. When it comes to putting in work he had balls the size of watermelons and he had his fingers in all sorts of pies. Top notch gangster, but even in an environment where nobody's gonna win a humanitarian Nobel Peace prize, he stood out in the scummiest way possible.

Well he did have the go ahead on both sides of the game .... Feds were letting him kill and there was a all out war even after it ended he was so whacked out and used to it being like Wild West he could not stop even with a verbal argument or push and shove had to turn into a shootout the guy was shot out !

i forgot were i read wild bill was surprised when he was offerd the underboss position. allie could have gave it to deross or sonny franses joel cacace or any one from the persico faction i wonder if from the jump it was to make bill cutolo comfitable?rock him to sleep. or was it just allie gets busted with a gun in florida and decided to act. or was it the plan from the jump. im guessing once he was arrested for the guns he thought hed get alot more then 18months in the feds what happend to felon in poss of a firearm in a federal case being like mando 5 10 yrs. why would they offer him the sstreet boss of the colombo family 18months plea

Yeah I remember hearing his brother ratting him out. How could you inform on your own blood especially your brother?? like you said these guys made their choices and no one to blame but themselves but these guys were big boys and played deep then when things get tough Seb chooses the cowards way out. Ratting out his brother... I would never forgive him. I wouldn't be surprised if Dino did a Michael Corleone on him

I didn't know his close friends and cousins ratted him out too.

Yeah he REALLY got it in the ass. Surprised he didn't roll too but decided to face his 50. What a man. Another Sonny in the making haha

i still believe jack deross got fucked in the butt. he's a capo wild bill disapears. the boss tells him to go to wild bills family and try to collect loansharking records and money. he gets neither. allie bumps him to underboss. we find out in tommy gioelis trial it was him and his crew who did the murder , picked bill up and deposed of his body. how come deross lawyers cant get him some type of appeal or he should have beat it at trial. i would called darco asked him who can order the underbosses murder only a boss rite ? then get the fbi to say when bill goes missing deross is just a capo. he shouldnt have been tried next to the boss who orderd the murder its spillover

Deross was in on the plot he wasn't innocent he was the one who approached Joe Campanella first and tried to get him to set up Wild Bill.

The feds got the how Bill, got whacked story wrong and the who actually did the work wrong however, they got the main players behind the scenes correct.

And going to the house tje.next day that was a grimy move.

Wild Bill was no fool I am sure he had MILLIONS stacked away.

The family told the Feds they found $1,500,000 of his money.

No way that was it.

He was adamant about not giving any money to whoever, asked from the columbo's he prepared his family on what to say and they listened.

That's just my opinion.

If that were me I would NOT keep my last $1,500,000 In one spot if the feds came in the get the whole thing one shot.

I would $1,500,000 In the duct and then another $500,000 In basement etc.

Lil Dino stuck by omerta he is a man's man when we were kids everyone used to call him Dino Ba-Ba, he wanted to be gangster from way back then.

I guess he did it.

And all that goes with it.

What a shame

You need to do some pro bono work for these guys.

I'll suck you if you'll let me live sir. Please don't kill me! PLEASE!

They went to his house the day after whacking him? If that’s true that’s disgraceful wow

You are right it is..
Could you imagine that was you and your family?

They sent someone knocking on your walls, basically you know these guys killed your husband, father etc..
And they threatened to kill the son, Deross said to the wife "You know your lucky, in the old days they killed the son along with the father"

You can't blame the mother and sisters for flipping, how else could they fight back?

The son Jr. he is a different story

When his dad was alive and on the streets of Bensonhurst he was a big tuff guy, the first one to throw a punch, it was real easy when your dad was a powerful CAPO that was feared by many, and he had a crew of killers behind him.

His dad gets clipped and he runs to WITSEC, he wasn't so tuff anymore...
He lost the ARMY he had behind him, he had to stand for himself.

Didn't Sammy Gravano beat up Joe Colombo's son when they were kids?

Yes I’m sure I read this somewhere. Was it in a cinema or something?

And then didn’t joe call him in a few days later but didn’t hurt him

The Christmas Verdict: How Colombo Mafia family leader “Wild Bill” Cutolo got the present he wished for http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profil...-colombo-mafia-family-leader-wild-bill-c

WATCH: Come see where Colombo family hitmen buried Mafia underboss “Wild Bill” Cutolo http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profil...mbo-family-hitmen-buried-mafia-underboss