Paul Castellano Loyalist's

After Paul was murdered in cold-blood along with Tommy Bilotti in 85'. Who were the capo's that were still loyal to Castellano? I'm pretty sure you had some that were neutral, Those who hated Castellano; and then those that went along with the killing; but resented it secretly. I'm surprised that Joe Armone; James Failla (Old timers) and then Frank DeCicco would go along with killing a guy that some of their success went too. John Gotti was hated; Neil protected him; I'm pretty sure Gotti would have been dead in the 70's-Early 80's if it wasn't for that relationship.



Also would like more information on Nino Gaggi; He wasn't on the streets long while Gotti was Boss; but I believe he did roam around for for a little while; Think Gaggi; and Roy would have plotted his murder if they both were on the streets after the Castellano hit?

Danny Marino was loyal to Castellano as he was apparently behind the hit on DeCicco in ‘86, lead by the Westside (and carried out by the Lukes). Not sure about John Gambino, but I would assume he was a Castellano loyalist too being how their families were all connected back in Sicily.

I think Gaggi was on trial in ‘85 and got convicted in early ‘86, so he was out of the picture by the time Gotti took over. But if he and Roy were still heavy on the streets in late ‘85? Who knows, but doubt Gotti would’ve been able to move against Big Paul. And maybe Roy would’ve whacked Gotti.

I think that by the time Paul was murdered that he and Nino were on the outs because of Paul being dragged into Roy and his crew's stolen car ring case and from what's been written Roy and Paul never liked each other.

as far as Gotti I think people's resentment and hatred towards him during those years is GREATLY exaggerated. it seems like resentment started when he became boss and started forcing the weekly Ravenite meets, flirting with the press and all the nepotism.

I DON'T mean to hijack yoir thread TS but, I didn't want to begin another beat to death thread.

I wonder more about what was Castellano's pre-emptive thoughts were once Neil died?

WHO did he rally up for his strike? Paul HAD to know that Gotti and his crew could strike first but I also know that Paul's pending legal issues restrained his moves, PROBABLY.

I really wonder what would have transpired had Paul had no legal issues and constant surveillance?

I doubt Paul saw anything coming- he had been boss for a good few yrs up until that point, and was only afraid of Neil/ not Gotti. He viewed Gotti as no more than a street thug with a big crew

He badly underestimated what would happen- which is why he promoted Tommy as underboss (it was a slap in the face to Gotti). In Paul’s mind, Gotti’s power was gone once Neil was dead and he’ll break up his crew/ put Gotti on the shelf or under someone etc and that would be that

Paul’s loyalists were mostly the guys who visited him almost weekly at his mansion ie Tommy Gambino, Joe Butch (although he was smart enough to buddy buddy with Gotti), Jimmy Brown. Paul mostly only invited those who were making money for him/ other than that he wouldn’t see u much.

If memory serves me right, I don’t think Nino was there much. Paul was the boss, but he really didn’t have that personal connection with many guys other than Bilotti that were willing to die for him

whereas Gotti in return had mostly his brothers and Angelo and that alone gave him a lot of power. And they too were willing to go to bat for Neil, so that was Neil’s power too

Going to respond to several people in this thread;

@Stubbs; I know Danny Marino; and Gotti were not friendly with eachother; but did Gotti ever figure out Danny Marino was part of a plot to end his life? If he did know; Why didn't he get rid of Marino? I also have heard chatter on here; Gaggi was out on the streets while Gotti was boss for a few month's. I know they didn't like eachother;

@Sal Bronte; You are right; I believe. Paul and Gaggi were friendly, but not on good terms in the ear;y 80's due to Roy Demeo. I believe Roy was only kept alive because of Nino's relationship to Castellano. Gotti and Demeo would have been dead in the 70's if it wasn't for Mr.Neil and Nino Gaggi. They better be glad they had mentors up their in the heiarchy.

@ItalianIrishMix; I honestly don't think Paul had anyone to get rid of the Gotti crew once Neil died. By that time; Roy was dead and Gaggi was either in prison; or had a weakend crew..... Failla' Arcuri; Bilotti; Marino; Armone didn't have the guts to get rid of Gotti? I'm kind of surprised most of the old timers went with the Castellano plot.

@ToughTony; Do you think Castellano was afraid of Neil? Castellano had several crews out there to off-set Neil's faction; He just wasn't smart enough or close enough to the streets to use them. By the way; Once Neil died; Who do you think should have been Castellano's underboss? Failla? Gaggi? T. Gambino?

Looking over Gravano's testimony provided in the Gotti Tapes book, he says at one point Gaggi came to Gravano worried that Castellano was going to kill him. Gravano told him not worry because he knew Castellano was going to be killed himself soon. So I don't think he could be counted as a Castellano loyalist at the time of the hit.

I'm not sure if there were any real loyalists to Castellano after the hit. I know there was a "Castellano faction", but it seems they all eventually went along with Gotti when they realized they weren't in trouble with him.

ya big paul had no use for gaggi after he shot a cop and demeos crew got big paul indicted for stolen cars. he was a dead man walking and gravano let him no he was recording saying it on tape. and that was in 1983 2 years before gotti even started plotting. gaggi was in and out of jail for the cop thing and under indictemnt with demo cars guys. he was a non factor.

well I agree Paul never saw it coming. However I don’t think Gotti deserves that much credit. Let’s be honest without Frankie decicco and Sammy on his side I doubt Gotti would of been able to go through with it. The bergin crew were tough but they were mostly morons and I doubt anybody would follow their leads without frank decicco and Sammy. I mean I’m sure most wanted Frankie to be the boss but Frankie being smart let Gotti be boss so he would take all the heat. Obviously losing nino and the demes crew made Paul much more vulnerable. But losingvfrankie and Sammy was the clincher

I think most of the people you might call Castellano loyalists were also mafia realists. Once he was gone it wasn't worth going to war over. I'm sure some of the smart ones sat back & watched Gotti self-destruct, which is what happened.

Didn't Gotti summon Gaggi once, and Gaggi declined to meet him, and Gotti demanded he show up or else? Something like that. I remember hearing about Gotti throwing his weight around with him, can't remember where.

Can what Gravano said re: Gaggi and Castellano really be trusted? He's pretty liberal with the truth.

@Moe; I read something along those lines that Gaggi declined to meet him once, and maybe a few times. Gotti was furious, but I guess it wasn't serious enough for Gaggi to be ''whacked''. Gaggi I believe went down about 4 or 5 months into Gotti's reign.

@Pmac; Why didn't Castellano have Roy; and Gaggi killed at the same time if he was concerned about being indicted?

From Murder Machine:
"...according to Gotti, who was talking on a secret government listening device in his Queens social club. In one conversation, Gotti complained to an underling about the way Nino had told one of his underlings to bring Gotti to him for a meeting - about an unspecified problem with a restaurant that was eventually torched. 'He told you to bring me? He's under me! Yeah, tell him to get his ass up here to see me.'"


I understand what you mean about Gravano and the truth, but he has no reason to lie about it. He recalls the same story to Gotti and Locasio on the Ravenite tapes.

Yeah, that's the one.

I would've thought Nino was an established capo and Gotti was an acting capo at best then. Was Gotti really over him? If anything, I would've thought it'd be the other way around.

I love murder machine book it got me into the whole true crime books. But its kinda been off on shit because all the trials in last 20 yrs. If you belive the rats. Nino shot the cop when paul was still in firm command maybe the top boss you can argue over who was boss of westside other thread. Paul atleast had the biggest family. Roy n his whole crew start getting indicted in 82 paul has demeo a faithful soldier killed just cause. Theres a tape of ralph scopo a big colombo guy saying wow they did in roy maybe theyll do me . Bosses. Carmine.

Nino wanted to be pauls underboss maybe but once he shot a cop it was all down hill. Paul didnt want that press

The whole story about ninos nephew taking the bullet from nino in rikers island is fascinating movie shit

Like someone said no crew was really loyal to big paul once he was indicted on the commssion trial. The writting was on the wall they just kicked up and waited to see wgo the next boss would be when he goes to jail. But gotti jumped it

Funny they said nino was cellmates wit some ira boss. And his wife successfully sued after he died in his cell. The nephew if still alive should do a reddit ama. No one wants to see a doc or film or another book by him. Just tell some truths

Sniffed a line my fingers are active happy 4th board

That's one of the main reasons Gotti was able to have Castellano whacked without serious opposition inside the Gambino family. Big Paul kept himself aloof from his troops, never going to the streets to shmooze with them, only communing with a select few people he invited to his mansion.

The general consensus seems to be that Big Paul had next to no allies within his own family BUT does anyone truly know if he didn't look outside his family for help?

I do believe that The Chin would have provided some assistance and possibly Persico.

Although since the Commission trial was front and center, neither wanted any heat.

Dunno if that guy was an IRA boss exactly. I'd say he was pretty low on the chain of command. He probably prolonged Nino's life if anything by making a scene and demanding the guards intervene. They didn't take that heart attack seriously at all.

Again, according to Kurins and O'Brian:
Paul cut business deals with other families that might have cemented some owed favors. But, the deals were bitterly resented by Paul's troops because they were disadvantaged by them. More important: Paul was carrying on a torrid affair with Gloria Olarte, his Colombian housemaid, and was so head-over-heels for her that the other Dons believed Paul would rat them out ,rather than go to prison for the rest of his life because of the RICO case against him.

Gaggi was one even though Paul was dragged into the tapes by Roy and was mad, he did not demote Gaggi. Thomas Gambino is another, Daniel Marino, James Failla, Thomas Bilotti, Joseph Corrao, and Louis Ricco. After Castellano refused to attend Dellacroce funeral, Pat Conte and Carmine Lombardozzi moved away from Big Paul's circle, and before that they were having problems with Big Paul's demand of more money, and Joe Gallo was fully on board with the plot to kill Castellano when he heard Bilotti and Gambino were going to be placed in administration positions.

What? were did you hear this?

Who do you guys think Castellano should have appointed as Underboss; when Dellacroce died? Also who do you think he should have endorsed as Boss in the event he was put away in the Mafia Commission Trial?

Also; How did Joe N Gallo avoid being caught up in the Mafia Commission Trial? I'm pretty sure the feds knew who he was.

john gotti..

paul took nino down from captain, carmine lom was danny's uncle ,danny listened to his uncle..

I say he should have picked Frank DeCicco. Based on what I've read, he seems to have been liked on both sides of the family plus had the right experience and smarts.


That's a good question about Gallo. He was caught on the Castellano mansion wiretap and was convicted in a later RICO trial based off that. I guess he must have never been caught talking Commission business or concrete club.

I got Angelo mixed up with Joe N. Gallo.



Castellano already picked Thomas Gambino and Thomas Bilotti for the positions. He should have picked James Failla who had served as an acting underboss while Dellacroce was locked up before the big meet between Paul and him.
The transcripts I have read shows only Gallo talking about bribery using Joe Piney and some talk about money on the streets and kickbacks from the garment district, most of what he says is coded, but when he tells Paul how much he will receive he doesn't code the amount that comes over a million throughout the meetings. The only commission talk with Gallo is Rusty in the Bonanno family wanting a seat on the commission, a couple of beefs in the family that Big Paul will have to decide, Tony Ducks guy has a problem with a proposed member in one of the families, and Salerno making a request that the proposed membership lists includes the nicknames of the prospect.

@Bronx you sure Marino always listened to his uncle? Cause Carmine was having problems with Castellano wanting a big share, and was not happy with Castellano not attending Dellacroce funeral, but he was in agreement with the Chin that somebody had to pay for the hit on Paul, so why not suggest his nephew take part in the disposal of John Gotti and try for an administration position.

What r u talking about w the angelo comment? Ruggerio?
...he allways wanted paul hit. Had nothing to do w the admin choices.... Lol he knew paul was specifically gunning for him!!

And as far as Bilotti goes.... I am pretty sure that he waa NOT going to be taking a admin spot once paul was imprisoned.... I think bilotti was like a temporary spot.... He was a bulldog no brains.

And Piney wanted to retire but when dellacroce died he was asked to help with admin roles. As well as after paul died, he was forced to step up for a small time. Didnt want it tho.

Other families believed he wa a gonna flip. Would deff been interesting if he did.... But the whole demeo case had him buried without even bringing up the commision case!

think hes rite maybe paul made marino a capo after nino was locked up. he got like a 10 yr bid probaly rite after demo was killed for shooting the cop but then he apeealed . he was on the street probaly on the appeal in dec 1985 when paul got hit.anyway the gotti movie is leaked all over the internet in hd i seen it on fmovies just google click whatever pops up first and know youll have to x out about 5 pops up before the movie starts. i feel asleep 10 min in. never should have let any of thoe gotti sons have screen copys they sold that shit quick to the bootleggers now that film will not recoup a cent. john alites selling gotti dvds down time sq 5bucks

Joe Piney did not want to retire until the judge gave him a choice. Gotti told Armone to refuse the deal, and shorty did and he died in prison. If Armone wanted to retire, then John and Frank would never have feeled him out and then approach him for the Castellano hit, and him informing Gallo of the plot and those two appeasing the old schoolers in the family. Joe Armone and Joe N. Gallo went down for them bribing officials to get Gallo's kid transferred from a state prison to a federal prison in the early 1980's. Where did you hear Armone wanted to retire after Dellacroce died? When Dellacroce died and Paul refused to attend, that pissed off members in the family and Armone was more eager to help the Fist. Piney was Joe Gallo right hand man and therefore in a position of power.

carmine was a non factor under paul, he was taken down and not killed for banging a made guys daughter..but his nephews sought his guidance, carmine was very close to westside guys.i did not hear paul was shaking him down? not saying it did not happen ,but i never heard that before. frank d would have been a great choice for underboss, but that still would not have fulfilled gottis goals,

al darco books has a cool after story part. after a trial in the 90tys the feds drove him around brooklyn and he mentions he seen carmine docs rolls royce still parked in front of his house. just thought it was a cool line in his book. wasnt he called the wizard of wall street. the pics i seen of him he looked the ladies man. he was a pioneer in the fraud claims, finicial crime shit. he was a capo under carlo i think he was broken down like bronx said. even read he had a kid with the made guys daughter.

Everyone in the white collar faction jumped ship and went with the prevailing winds.

Agreed. Not sure why he didnt promote Decicco. He was close to Paul, smart, and well respected. Bad move by Paul

I think they had no choice, the other faction was more violent.