The fumbling Lucchese administration

Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

I'd rather do the hit myself than have two guys do the hit and get caught then rat me out, or rat me out 10-20 years from now when they are facing heavy time for other stuff.

[quote=MightyDR]Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?

I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.

Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

Except neither Londonio or Caldwell have ratted anyone out (yet). So throw that argument out the window.
I have news for you. If you order an underling to commit a hit, you can generally get away with a 15 year plea deal, due to the fact that you're guilty of "murder conspiracy" as opposed to first-degree murder or whatever. If you commit the murder yourself, and pull the trigger, you're looking at life.
And what the fuck do you except Madonna or Crea Sr. to do? The way the hit went down implies that Meldish wasn't looking to attend any meetings, so they whacked him outside his house. Madonna & Crea Sr. are geriatrics, their reflexes aren't so slow, their eyesight probably isn't too good, their hand-eye coordination probably isn't too good. This isn't an unfair assumption, due to their age. What's the bet that, due to all of this, Meldish would be able to get the better of them and return him? Or, even if they do whack him, what's the bet that, due to all of the reasons I outlined, they'll do something wrong and accidentally leave evidence? Then you've got a life sentence for first-degree murder-in-aid-of-racketeering.
If you ORDER a hit, and it passes through the rigors of a chain-of-command, you've insulated yourself to point where it is very hard for the feds to make a case against you. I don't know exactly how they pinched Madonna and Crea Sr., but I can tell you that it's not their fault the hit was solved so quickly. Caldwell and Londonio fucked up big time, they used their own fucking car and hung around the scene for ages before and after, they managed to tie Caldwell's cellphone records to the scene, they caught Londonio a week beforein a car with a shit-ton of guns. Those two are dimwits, and they are the reason the hit was solved. That was most likely an oversight on Crea Jr.'s part. It doesn't indicate a "fumbling administration."


Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.

That all go down on conspiracy-no???

"The fumbling Lucchese administration." - No. This chain of command is what the mob has been doing for years?


Again, it's obvious why you "keep it in the family." It's a lot rarer for wiseguys to flip on their father/son as opposed to a capo with no familial relations. Crea Sr. gave the contract to his son because his son would obviously be most reliable, trustworthy person to give it to.


I-N-S-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. It's not a new concept. It's what the mob has been doing for years. What's the point of being the boss if you still have to whack guys yourself?
You think Matty Madonna, an 82-year-old man, would whack Meldish himself? Do a drive-by on his house, and pull the trigger? He's a fucking geriatric. Give me a break.


No, Furio, it's because Crea Jr. is a capo, and capos generally don't commit hits themselves. Chain of command. It's not a new concept.



Except neither Londonio or Caldwell have ratted anyone out (yet). So throw that argument out the window.
I have news for you. If you order an underling to commit a hit, you can generally get away with a 15 year plea deal, due to the fact that you're guilty of "murder conspiracy" as opposed to first-degree murder or whatever. If you commit the murder yourself, and pull the trigger, you're looking at life.
And what the fuck do you except Madonna or Crea Sr. to do? The way the hit went down implies that Meldish wasn't looking to attend any meetings, so they whacked him outside his house. Madonna & Crea Sr. are geriatrics, their reflexes aren't so slow, their eyesight probably isn't too good, their hand-eye coordination probably isn't too good. This isn't an unfair assumption, due to their age. What's the bet that, due to all of this, Meldish would be able to get the better of them and return him? Or, even if they do whack him, what's the bet that, due to all of the reasons I outlined, they'll do something wrong and accidentally leave evidence? Then you've got a life sentence for first-degree murder-in-aid-of-racketeering.
If you ORDER a hit, and it passes through the rigors of a chain-of-command, you've insulated yourself to point where it is very hard for the feds to make a case against you. I don't know exactly how they pinched Madonna and Crea Sr., but I can tell you that it's not their fault the hit was solved so quickly. Caldwell and Londonio fucked up big time, they used their own fucking car and hung around the scene for ages before and after, they managed to tie Caldwell's cellphone records to the scene, they caught Londonio a week beforein a car with a shit-ton of guns. Those two are dimwits, and they are the reason the hit was solved. That was most likely an oversight on Crea Jr.'s part. It doesn't indicate a "fumbling administration."


Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.

That all go down on conspiracy-no???

I wasn't aware how the hit went down. How could they fuck it up so badly? using their own car for a hit, hanging around the scene and Caldwell took his personal phone on a job. Where the fuck did the mob find these two numb nuts? and NEVER task fucking Crea Jr with assigning hitters EVER again.

You're correct. The hit itself was a disaster - investigators have said themselves that they had pretty much solved the case within a few days of the hit going down and spent the rest of the time making it into a big racketeering indictment - but the planning and chain-of-command was all standard mob protocol. For example, look at the 2009 hit of Anthony Seccafico, the Bonanno soldier. That hit was (most likely) ordered by the administration and passed down the chain-of-command, but there isn't any physical evidence that ties any specific person to it, and it's going on a decade still unsolved. Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, pretty much all mob hits quickly led back to the administration and life sentences were handed out like candys. Nowadays, with less rats due to less intensive FBI surveillance, bosses have a much better chance of getting away with murder.

disrespected Crea again??

enzo was involved in The club that wouldn't let him in I think..?