Chin's most stupid move

In Gotti's book, he said he was sure to an extent that the chin as smart as he was, must have known how good it was to have his father around... to deflect attention away from him since law enforcement were so busy going after his father

BUT as we all know, the chin was doing quite the opposite trying to get Vic & Gas to whack Gotti

That was smart since he wasn't personally involved and could distance himself (from retaliation & law enforcement) but if he was really that smart

Chin would have wished for 10 John Gotti's. Didn't take a genius to work out that once Gotti was out the picture, next up for bat was the chin himself...he was the only old timer & big fish left...

His quest for vengeance and hatred did his family no favours

His most stupid move IMO was getting close to Peter Savino. All those precautions over the years and then he just throws them out the window for this guy!

I see what you mean with needing guys like Gotti to deflect attention. I guess for Chin, Gotti had broken the rules and was gaining power that threatened his so he had to go. That was more important to him.

Plus it's not like the all the feds were focusing all of their attention of Gotti. There was still a Genovese squad dedicated to bringing Chin down whether Gotti was around or not. Chin was indicted in May of 1990 when Gotti was still on the street.

I just happened 2 b in the middle of(actually almost finished) that book "CHIN" & i agree w/ur view.

How's the book. Worth the penny ??

As for Savino, absolutely. I remember discussing that in an old thread, Chin let his guard down because he saw "green".

Chin most definitely wasn't as smart as everyone made him out to be..and the only reason why he survived so long as boss was 1. His crazy act 2. Fact he didn't ask for much money from his capos.

The capos were only too happy for a guy like chin, he takes the heat and they get to keep more money.

Yes, it was worth the $$,my wife found a used but good as new edition online somewheres,that i am unaware of..it gives an unusual insight as 2 his family life as well as a perspective in & around his Triangle life..commentary from his priest brother which can @ times b redundant & questionable but also permissable ..photos have been seen b4 mostly.

Ya but chin went back with savino to 1980 seems like he liked the guy. He saved his life to. Chin had savinos business partner pappa whacked for those hits up other connected guys. The window scam didnt come up to later. Did the feds create the scam to entrap all these guys. You got to even wonder why amuso n casso were caught by savino they should had a soldier dealing with him but the greed.

Gas and Amuso used an associate to deal with Savino, Sonny "Blue" Morrissey to deal with Savino. Sonny Blue was a business agent for Local 580 of the Architectural and Ornamental Workers Union. As soon as Savino was outed as a rat they whacked Sonny Blue to cut links that could tie them to the Windows Case. Too much evidence was already obtained though by that time and they killed Blue for no reason because he wasn't even a rat. They just took a precaution and gave the contract to Fat Pete Chiodo. Fat Pete should've been the one whacked because he later ratted.

Chin did mess up by taking in associate Savino. He saw the immense profits in the Windows scam and didn't want to share. He should've done like Gas and Vic did and put Savino under an associate, not a soldier, involved in Union business. He also should've have taken Gas' word that Savino was a rat.

Why "they get to keep more money" ?
He took 10% from every capo right ?

I support tough tonys claim..most capos have 2 divvy up way more than 10%..usually 30%..depends on the boss,look @ joe profaci ,who wanted about over half ..thats how initially the gallo war started,am i right?..fuckin' scarfo was THE greed of all greediest mothers 2 rula a family,he figured he had it coming 2 him,cause of the monotonous of being stuck in a.c. since 63..even though he was makin' ends meet more than handsomely according 2 Serp...& chin did certainly take off the heat so the capos could operate in relative peace..the feds were so intent on nailing the chin,they took their eyes off who was really doing the street work & literally bringing in the proceeds.

So vincent was a smart boss after all he had a great plan that worked for years, and he invented the "street boss".

No,dude, im not saying that, Im just sayin' that what tony said has validity.

Maybe he wasnt as "smart as everyone makes him out to be". He might have been smarter. No offense though, you make plausible points but its not that simple. He had the longest run of any boss in american LCN if im not mistaken, and who really knows how long he was pulling the strings. He was also ruthless and crafty. When you say he only lasted because of his crazy act, you are overlooking the commitment, discipline and shrewdness to actually pull that off as long as he did. Thats like saying "the patriots are only aucessful because Belicheck is an amazing coach". No shit but that's a pretty big only.

Well said..i say no more..

wondering if the book goes into his attempting to kill Costello and who gave him the contract, and why they wanted him dead. he did have a ligit fight career, and was a good light heavy, his record can be found on BOXREC.

Not even close to having the longest run of an American LCN Boss. Tony Accardo has him beat by decades. At the very least Accardo was Boss by most accounts 1943. He held the top spot for at least 30 years or more. Joe Zerilli has him beat, Joe Bonanno has him beat. I can name others. He might be in the top 5 but I doubt it. Jack Tocco, Joe Profaci, Gigante was Boss at most from the early 80s to his death in 2005 which would put him in charge around 8 years after he was locked up. That would put him Boss while free on the street about the same time span Carlo Gambino was.Hell, if we count prison time included the Snake has been Boss twice as long as Gigante was.

Actually, Scarfo wasn't that greedy. Sure, according to Phil Leonetti he took the whole share once or twice, but on most occasions Scarfo set up what they called "The Elbow" which consisted of him and like 6 or 7 of his closest guys.Maniac? Yeah. Bloodthirsty, yeah. Greedy? Not really. Not with money anyways. He was all about the power and the life.

No no, I agree. Obviously his crazy act was great for his job career and props to him for being able to pull that off

And most definitely he was feared (Gotti was afraid of him to
An extent) but I'm just saying he almost self-destructed by having such a hard on for the Gotti brothers.

I'm not entirely sure he was greedy with his capos or not but when they dealt with anyone ie when Crow was dealing with that office, Crow had to continuously inform them Scarfo was taking a bigger cut just because he felt like it

& isn't that what kicked off the Riccobene war?! They were used to kicking up a certain amount but Scarfo wanted more and they bulked

sorry i definitely overlooked the outfit. They are LCN but a bit different. I also should have clarified that i meant in the modern era, post valachi. Obviously Persico would technically be longest but that counts for nothing in my opinion, that stat would come with an asterik lol.

Not at all what kicked off the Riccobene War. What kicked off the Riccobene War was Harry showing Scarfo no respect and didn't acknowledge Scarfo as Boss. Testa and Scarfo started the Street Tax but that was the rules Cosa Nostra had in New York and most everywhere else. Bruno didn't enforce it during his reign but Testa and Scarfo were well within their right to tax all illegal activities in their sphere of influence. Scarfo wasn't that greedy in my opinion. Bruno was a much greedier boss than Scarfo. Scarfo shared with his guys and it wasn't just the top guys. People like Caramandi were scratching together 2 nickels under Bruno, but when Scarfo took over Caramandi made more money in those 5 years than he made his whole life along with a few other guys in the Scarfo era. And I say this even though I have never liked Nicky Scarfo or his reign as the Philly Mob Boss. He was an idiot with a huge ego, started off humble and about the life but his huge ego wrecked the family. He was a disaster as a Boss. That being said, I can't say greed was his downfall.

Sorry have to disagree... in the mob it all boils down to the green 99.9% of the time

U cite the LCN street tax rule was pretty much enforced everywhere meaning it was Scarfo/ Testa's right to enforce the rule. And more so "respect" as to what kicked off the war


Then why did Vic and Gas issue the "whack Jersey" edict... it was because Tumac only kicked upped a small amount and Tony Ducks was happy with that arrangement (yes Vic Gas got greedy) and felt they were getting robbed

But that situation was no different to the Ricobene situation

U said they went to war over "disrespect" well balking at the street tax is the same thing- they go hand in hand

Harry didn't want to share and in the end he surrendered by handling over his entire operations

No guys did make money under Bruno/ u cite Nicky Crow making more
Money under Scarfo then he did with Bruno

Nicky crow was just a con man under Mickey Diamond and once he went to work under Scarfo- he made more money because Scarfo gave him the opportunity to

Doesn't mean it wasn't there prior/ just that Bruno didn't open the doors for him

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=886473#Post886473

"'I didn't respect him. Not only didn't I respect him, I didn't approve of him,' said Riccobene."

"What's more, he wouldn't share his gambling and drug profits, or pay him tribute"


Both kind of go hand in hand. However, based on what I've read about Scarfo, I'd say Scarfo would have someone killed if he deemed them disrespectful even if they were bringing him heaps of money.

What does this scarf riccobene stuff have to do with the op?

I respect your right to disagree. The Vic Amuso/ gaspipe thing doesn't hold any bearing on Scarfo's reign in my opinion. You can vaguely compare the Lucchese Boss's whack Jersey order to the Scarfo/Riccobene situation. Number 1, the Scarfo Riccobene thing was a small scale war with people shooting on both sides. The Lucchese thing was an all out assault on the NJ faction and they didn't fight back they just ran and hid. Secondly. Tony Ducks was Boss and demanded a paltry sum from his NJ Faction. He was Boss, that was his decision. The NJ Faction were happy with that, but it is up to the Boss's discreption. There isn't a set rate. Amuso was well within his rights as a Boss to take whatever tribute he deememd necessary. Riccobene was a soldier with a crew. The relationship doesn't compare.

I'm NOT suggesting the Luchese/ Jersey war was anything like the Riccobene war. What I was reffering to- was tha fact that BOTH Tumac and Harry had the same situation with the bosses.

Tumac only had to kick up a certain percentage to ducks. And Harry had the same understanding with Bruno

So my point was- both wars started over money/ which is a sign of disrespect. they go hand in hand.

According to Leonetti Harry was breaking a lot of LCN rules (whether true or not) who knows

George Anastasia's take in the Crow's book is that Harry "balked at the street tax"

But didnt the big jersey crew send tony ducks like a fat 50k envelope every xmis. Tony ducks home turf was long island i think. He was in everyboro so he probaly didnt pay much mind whats going on in nj where the genovese n decavs ruled during the 70tys

That is a fair assessment, but in my opinion it is best a dubious comparison. To point out first, their was no Lucchese/NJ War. Only one side was taking out guys while the other side went into hiding. It was never about money with the Bruno Family.Riccobene and Acceturro benefited for years by giving a token sum to their bosses. New bosses took over and things changed. For Amuso and Gas it was all about Greed and Power, for Scarfo he didn't care about tribute from Riccobene. He just knew he couldn't let Harry thumb his nose at him and that was the situation that the Philly Family was in.

I agree 100% with you on that. A boss should have no contact with anyone except his underboss and consigliere, that is why it was set up that way. Greed is the common denominator in almost every case where upper echelon get pinched. Instead of insulating themselves and taking points they want more and come out from their lairs and expose themselves to dummies and rats.e

But i heard some experts saying that the chin made the genovese family strong as they are, so if its true, then i guess that he was a great boss after all no ?