Did Gotti have permission or did he not?

Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 04:14 AM

I have heard so many different stories about Gotti getting commission approval for the hit on Paul but:

Who held seats in 1985? Did Chicago?

5 Families
Gambinos - Big Paul (Never got a chance to vote)
Lucchese's - Tony Duck's Voted Against killing Paul
Bonanno's - Rastelli/Big Joey Voted in favor favor of killing Paul
Genovese's - The Chin Voted Against killing Paul
Columbo's - Voted in favor of killing Paul

Now, I THINK what I wrote above is correct and if it is, it would be 2-2 vote only because the Gambino's representative isn't voting so they don't count.
Under that vote, Gotti had no authority to do it.

Now, if Chicago did in fact have a seat, I wonder which way Aiuppa/Accardo would have voted....Since they were old schoolers, I assume it would be No.

Can anyone clarify some facts on this subject?

Posted By: JackieAprile

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 04:32 AM

I thought Gotti never sought permission from any of the other Families?

Posted By: blueracing347

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 04:42 AM

This is the first I am hearing about getting approval from the commission. I thought he had the backing of the capos in the gambinos that he approached. If he would've approached Nino, Nino would've told Paul and Gotti would've been whacked. Who was Gotti to approach the commission? If Chin said no, wouldn't he have had told Big Paul, "hey from one boss to another, this Gotti guy wants you gone"?

Posted By: JackieAprile

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 04:57 AM

Yeah basically, it was a quick coup. It only came together because Neill died. If Gotti had gone word to the other Dons, it would have had to been either before Neil's death on December 2nd, or in the short two week window between December 2nd and December 16th.

If it was before Neil's death, Neil would've heard and arranged for Gotti to be clipped.

If it was between the 2nd and 16th, one of the other Dons would've told Paul, and Gotti would've been clipped.

So, no, no approval. Maybe after the fact approval. But the murder itself was a coup by Gotti and several Capos. He didn't even have the permission of the entire family. Just a few powerful Capos - enough to keep any doubters in line who didn't also want to die.

Posted By: ItalianIrishMix

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 05:13 AM

So basically there was just a lot of lying all around.

Gotti himself told Scarfo and Leonetti, "Just want you to know Nick that, I went about this the right way!" Incinuating, he asked the commission.

Scarfo's reply, "I know you did John!"

Just REALLY amazes me that he wasn't whacked for blatant rule breaking....I know Chin and Casso tried but there should have been an all out assault. All the bosses should have got involved only to at least show the underlings that YOU BETTER not try this same
move or you will die..... NO ONE is unwhackable! I don't believe Gotti was a hard person to kill.

Posted By: Binnie_Coll

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 05:45 AM

Originally Posted By: ItalianIrishMix

So basically there was just a lot of lying all around.

Gotti himself told Scarfo and Leonetti, "Just want you to know Nick that, I went about this the right way!" Incinuating, he asked the commission.

Scarfo's reply, "I know you did John!"

Just REALLY amazes me that he wasn't whacked for blatant rule breaking....I know Chin and Casso tried but there should have been an all out assault. All the bosses should have got involved only to at least show the underlings that YOU BETTER not try this same
move or you will die..... NO ONE is unwhackable! I don't believe Gotti was a hard person to kill.

I agree, chin should have led the charge, gotti brought too much heat.

Posted By: blueracing347

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 06:04 AM

The cover of TIME magazine. Maybe Chin knew what was coming and sat by waiting for it to all blow up in Gotti's face. Then he (Chin) can pick up the pieces.

Posted By: Belette

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 09:06 AM

Of course they didn't have a commission approval. Otherwise the Genovese/Lucchese - Gambino tension after the fact wouldn't have existed.

Gravano said they put out feelers with Colombos and Bonnanos, I think he even said Casso kind of said they wouldn't mind. They didn't even try with Genovese because Chin and Castellano were close. So they tried to get a sense of what will happen if they go ahead with it, but no commission approval.

Edit: I checked Underboss and this is what Gravano says about it.

Ruggiero met with Gerry Lang and Donnie Shacks from the Colombos. They were ok with it. Gotti said he had Massino in his pocket, because Bonannos at the time didn't have a seat in the commission, and removing Paul would increase their chances to get their seat back. Frank DeCicco talked to Casso who said he didn't give a fuck what happens to Paul. Genovese they didn't even approach.

Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 10:11 AM

Quote:

In 1963, Joseph Bonanno, the head of the Bonanno crime family, made plans to assassinate several rivals on the Mafia Commission—bosses Tommy Lucchese, Carlo Gambino, and Stefano Magaddino. Bonanno sought Magliocco's support, and Magliocco readily agreed. Not only was he chafing at being denied a seat on the Commission, but Bonanno and Profaci had been close allies for over 30 years prior to Profaci's death. Bonanno's audacious goal was to take over the National Crime Syndicate and make Magliocco his right hand man.[8]

Magliocco was assigned the task of killing Lucchese and Gambino, and gave the contract to one of his top hit men, Joe Colombo. However, the opportunistic Colombo revealed the plot to its targets. The other bosses quickly realized that Magliocco could not have planned this himself. Remembering how close Bonanno was with Magliocco (and before him, Profaci), as well as their close ties through marriages, the other bosses concluded Bonanno was the real mastermind.

For sure Gotti knowed this story so speaker with the capos and understand that he must do it because ask the commission will be sure death.

Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 01:35 PM

Gotti put feelers out but he never got full permission. Remember that the Commission case was going on at this point so families were preoccupied with that. So in a sense it was the right place right time for Gotti to make a move. Gotti seemed to have a lot of luck moving up the ranks in his criminal life.

Posted By: irishkaos

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 01:36 PM

How wasn't Gotti a hard person to kill? I've always thought that while the media attention surely hurt him with the feds, the fact that there was constant media around him surely helped him avoid being hit.

Posted By: furio_from_naples

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: irishkaos

How wasn't Gotti a hard person to kill? I've always thought that while the media attention surely hurt him with the feds, the fact that there was constant media around him surely helped him avoid being hit.

For dont be caught on tape he went out and gave orders while walking, so a sniper can easly whack him.

Posted By: Alfa Romeo

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 02:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ItalianIrishMix

So basically there was just a lot of lying all around.

Gotti himself told Scarfo and Leonetti, "Just want you to know Nick that, I went about this the right way!" Incinuating, he asked the commission.

Scarfo's reply, "I know you did John!"

Just REALLY amazes me that he wasn't whacked for blatant rule breaking....I know Chin and Casso tried but there should have been an all out assault. All the bosses should have got involved only to at least show the underlings that YOU BETTER not try this same
move or you will die..... NO ONE is unwhackable! I don't believe Gotti was a hard person to kill.

I doubt it was enough to have 2 or 3 bosses on his side to legitimate his move against Paul. Gotti had to also probably cook up an official reason, a rule Paul supposedly broke, to make his coup look legal.

Gravano mentioned some sins Paul supposedly committed against the Gambinos, one of which was allowing another family to kill one of his captains. That might have been one of the complaints brought before some of the commission members/reps.

Everyone now knows why Gotti had to do away with Paul, but that core reason wouldn't be enough to substantiate a complaint about Paul to another boss.

Posted By: thedudeabides87

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/21/16 02:37 PM

Would having an old timer like Piney or Joe Gallo on his side make his gripe look more legitimate or protect him a little?

Posted By: yatescj7

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/23/16 05:59 AM

Remember, Gotti officially denied responsibility of the hit on Paul to the Commission and to Chin when they met. Of course, Chin knew he was full of shit but he denied, denied, denied. And in Chin's case, he denied having anything to do with a wire tap picked up of Bobby Manna plotting to kill John and Gene Gotti and claims Manna and company went rogue. Of course, Gotti knew Chin was full of shit too. After that it was basically a stale mate. Only person trying to whack Gambino guys after that was Casso on his own.

Posted By: alexandarns

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/23/16 11:05 AM

Casso was crazy, going at the gambinos like a mad dog. He got a few of tham too,De Cicco, Borriello, LINO... etc. Gotti was full of it, who he got as revenge for those guys? None of the lucchese guys. Gotti befed himself as a tough guy, other than wiretaps I fail to notice.

Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Did Gotti have permission or did he not? - 11/23/16 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: alexandarns

Casso was crazy, going at the gambinos like a mad dog. He got a few of tham too,De Cicco, Borriello, LINO... etc. Gotti was full of it, who he got as revenge for those guys? None of the lucchese guys. Gotti befed himself as a tough guy, other than wiretaps I fail to notice.

Its no secret that Gotti was absolutely terrified of Casso and also Roy demeo. So when Casso was running wild he wouldn't dare try anything. When it came to Demeo Gotti basically begged Paul not to give him the contract when Paul wanted Demeo dead.