Should Vic Amuso step down & retire?

Considering how he and Casso (until Casso flipped in 1994, but was kicked out of the witness protection program in 1998) ran the family aground and were viewed as erratic and violent by many wiseguys in the Lucchese family, should Amuso step down and retire for good and let someone else (like Wonderboy Crea) take charge of the Luccheses?

This is the ONLY thing in Vic's mind: "I'm going to rot and die in a cell for this family. No one deserves the crown for that more than me."

Or flip the coin. You were going to die in a cell for keeping your mouth shut. Are YOU going to pass the crown?

I didn't think so.

agree

You could hardly call him active , for all intents and purposes amuso has been finished for years , it's ok holding onto the title but how is he benefiting from it ?? He's stuck in a cell , I would sinner be Steve crea all day long

He just has the title, sort of like Sonny Franzese has the underboss title. It doeasn't mean much. Just a way to show respect. I'm willing to bet that Crea is everything over there.

I'm agree with you ralphie. Amuso will die in jail so he has the title but nothing more. Crea is de facto boss regardless what some mob experts say.

This has been discussed ad nauseum. Peter Gotti is boss in name only. Capeci said as much. But Amuso still has clout and is not just a figurehead. Now does that mean he has total control or, say, the influence of Chin when he was in prison? Not necessarily. That some in the family reportedly suggested he step down is telling. But so far that hasn't happened. 90% of the thinking Crea is the "real boss" on these boards comes from a few posters offering that as their opinion and the assumption made by many that Amuso has no loyalists.

Ivy for me like Persico, Amuso will be the official boss until he die, but if Crea isnt the official boss for sure is the facto or street boss.
What do you think Ivy if not Crea who's the day to day boss ?

who are amuso loyalists ivy ?? As far as I'm aware those Brooklyn guys who tried to kill crea have been shelved , also John castelucci the capo in Brooklyn is creas guy , surely if amuso still had juice on the street he would have his guys in key positions

It's kinda on topic here. I was in a waiting room and got to talking to a guy who happened to be a prison guard south jersey. He watched Perna, Corrozzo, and "Louis" Manna. He was young and had only been with the prison for about 5 years. He was told, flat out by the other guards, not to mess with Louis Manna or give him a hard time about anything because the guy held a ton of weight on the outside and could have anything happen. This was about 6-8 months ago. How Long has Manna been locked up?

For what it's worth, I asked him if Manna and Scarfo Jr. were buddies. He said, not really. That they say hello and are cordial. Now, Scarfo Jr. was brand new to the prison at the time and they are on different tiers, so maybe that has a lot to do with it. But, he said that Manna was no nonsense and met with a select few people.

So, maybe Amuso has some sway on the streets that we don't know about. You never know...

Nicky I just looked up Manna and had to chuckle at his release date:

LOUIS ANTHONY MANNA
Register Number: 09211-050
Age: 86
Race: White
Sex: Male
Located at: Fairton FCI
Release Date: 03/07/2056

He was sentenced on September 27, 1989 to 80 years in federal prison for racketeering and conspiring to murder the two Gottis and Schiff.

We know Crea isn't the official boss. The feds and Capeci have said Amuso is. Crea apparently does run things day to day.



I don't know who Amuso uses to carry out his orders. Though, as overall boss, Crea himself would be one of those. But that's just it. I really don't need to know to believe Amuso is still on top. As I said above, the feds and Capeci saying he's the boss and there still being examples of him giving orders from prison is sufficient enough to show he's not just boss in name only.

Here's that Gang Land excerpt about Amuso from a while back. To me it holds far more weight than assumptions and theories made by some people on the forums who think they can read the tea leaves better from behind their computers.


The closest thing to an official confirmation about Amuso's status came in April from the testimony by FBI agent Kenneth Terracciano at the racketeering trial of Luchese mobster Nicodemo Scarfo Jr. in Camden Federal Court. Terracciano, a Newark-based G-man, offered a simple declarative sentence on the matter: Amuso, he said, "is the boss of the Luchese family."

That claim has since been bolstered by several well-placed law enforcement and underworld sources, all of whom agree that Vic is still on top.

Not only is he still running the show, Amuso has no intention of giving up his post until he leaves the custody of the federal Bureau of Prisons, "one way or the other," said one law enforcement official. Sources say Amuso's mindset is the same as two contemporary mob bosses who died in prison, John Gotti and Vincent (Chin) Gigante, as well as Colombo boss Carmine (Junior) Persico, who's been incarcerated since 1984.

"By now," added the official, whom we'll identify as LEO#1 (Law Enforcement Official #1), "Vic knows he's not walking out; he's getting out in a body bag."

"There is no doubt, Vic is the man, end of story," agreed a second longtime mob buster who's been making cases against New York wiseguys for more than 20 years. "Vic has always been the (Luchese) boss," said LEO#2.

The longtime mob buster, as well as a third official, LEO#3, noted that when Amuso's wife Barbara died two years ago, it was "standing room only" at the one-day wake at the James Romanelli-Stephen Funeral Home on Rockaway Boulevard in Ozone Park on March 2, 2012. Mrs. Amuso, 69, was laid to rest the following day at St. Charles Cemetery in Farmingdale.

Barbara Amuso, who was a vocal supporter of her husband at trial, and who got into a shouting match with prosecutor Charles Rose outside the courtroom after her husband was sentenced to life for ordering nine mob murders and numerous other crimes, died on February 29, 2012 — six days after Gang Land's faux pas that her husband had stepped down.

"Amuso sent out word that he wanted everyone to show up, and the place was packed," said LEO#2. "The Lucheses showed up en masse," added LEO#3, who noted that a "sprinkling" of Gambinos from the Howard Beach, Queens area, where both Gotti and Amuso lived, also paid their respects.

Sources say that like virtually the entire crime family, Crea, the Bronx-based former boxer who owned construction companies and made millions of dollars though bid-rigging, price-fixing and kickback schemes involving construction industry union officials, and Madonna, attended the wake.

All of that jibes with what one underworld source (call him UW#1) told us: "Vic is still in the chair, still running the show," he said. "They (Luchese mobsters) don't like the fact that he's still calling the shots, but he's not giving it up. He's the boss," said the mob associate, a longtime cohort of the Luchese and Bonanno crime families.

It all makes sense to former FBI supervisor George Gabriel, who spearheaded the investigation that ended with John Gotti being sentenced to life in prison.

Gabriel, who was on the FBI team that scooped up turncoat acting Luchese boss Alfonso (Little Al) D'Arco two months after Amuso was arrested, told Gang Land he is not surprised that Amuso is holding on to his official title. D'Arco later was the key witness against his old mob boss at trial.

"Amuso and John Gotti are both cut from the same cloth, or similar cloth," said Gabriel.

"They both have the kind of ego that wouldn't let them walk away from being the boss of the family even though the rules of Cosa Nostra dictate that they should step down when they get life incarceration, or even a very long sentence for the good of the crime family," said Gabriel.

"And Vic knows, like John knew, that if you give it up, not only are you out of sight, you're out of mind," said Gabriel. "The only way to insure that their own family is taken care of is to hold onto the reins of the crime family, and maintain the access to the crime family's money."

The family's probably fine with amuso being official boss so when people get murder they can't say the acting boss orderd it. They can deflect blame to amuso. Keeps the feds guessing cause historically only the official boss can order certain shit. It like the feds love to say you have to murder to get in the family when everyone knows shit changed and anyone can be inducted even if only thing you know how to do is make a good meat ball. And people forget well amuso was on the street crea was his acting consig. Crazy amuso wouldn't put a person he didn't trust in that position. And we read crea and the whole family showed up to amuso wife's wake last year. I don't think there's any bad blood between them to. And just fro. Reading about the bonanno trial last week creas son in a soldier in the family.

I mean every trial they paint the mafia as a murderous organization when in reality so Lil Bronx drug gang probably killed more people this year then all the families combined in the 21 century. Yaeh they killed aton before the federal death penalty happens in 1994 and made all the bosses think twice before whacking someone.

it's crazy. He's an 86-year old white guy. And this "under 30" African American Guard, who was in very good shape, flat out said he still had a lot of pull. Inside and outside.

Me? I believe that some of these older guys on the street and in prison still abide by the traditions. Will that change? Sure, because change is the only constant in our lives. Besides taxes.

Thanks for sharing Nicky. Cool story. Bobby seems like he was a really heavy guy.

Also, I don't think anyone disputes that Vic has the title. The question has always been how much influence he truly has with so few allies on the street. I feel like I explain this to you every time this comes up, Ivy. Titles aren't everything.

Vic definitely has the title and maybe he does have some sway still, but I can't imagine it's much these days. If he carries more weight than Crea then that means Brooklyn has the power, not the Bronx. I'm honestly not sure when it comes to Vic. Is Dom Cutaia on the street?

I realize titles aren't everything. As said, Peter Gotti basically only has the title at this point. But people say the same about Amuso with little more than their own assumptions and guesswork from other posters to support it. You talk about "so few allies" but you really don't know that. That's just you reading the tea leaves and coming to a conclusion that doesn't seem to agree with what Capeci reported above. Others doing that is how the whole "Amuso is just a figurehead/Crea is the real boss" thing started and it got repeated until it became accepted fact on the boards.

Not necessarily the death penalty but it was definitely a strategic move to avoid prosecution, ie using murder more as a last resort.

That thing with Peter Gotti is absolutely ridiculous. That man has no title. They may throw his name around to mess with law enforcement, but he's got zero power and I'm 99.9% sure that no one is kicking anything up to him.

He is still considered the official boss of the family but, in his case, that's all it is. Seems others in the family are content to let him keep it.

So we're ok that the fams used to continue to gave the official boss title to Pete gotti,Amuso and persico for disguise the feds. But Orena tried to take over the family by asking in all capos meeting if wanted that persico could continue to take the reins or wanted him as boss.
In the Lucchese Crea could made a thing similar?
My curiosity why crea son is with bonanno with his father was the luke street boss ?

God works in mysterious ways, Furio.

So Steven Crea's son is a made man in the Bonanno family??

Strange, but a smart move maybe..

Billy in this thread I read about crea son but dont find his name in the bonanno charts. So or this info was a mistake or he is an associate. Smart movie dont think why stay in an another family when your dad was the big shot in this family ?

Crea Jr is with the Lucchese's

How old is this Crea Jr?

I could've sworn PB said Stevie Crea's son wasn't in the life on an article I posted about The Tanglewood Boys.

If he would move up the ranks in the Bonannos, the Creas would have power and influence in 2 families instead of 1. But it's hypothetical ofcourse..

Thanks Sonny, makes more sense indeed..

When I read this also to me look non sense now I controlled Crea jr stay with the Lucchese and maybe stay in his dad crew. If no, who's the capo where crea jr is under ?

No as has already been said, he aint seeing light of day again either way, and it benefits guys on street to have him in the top spot

What kind of a man wants his son to be involved in this?

A scumbag

Is there a list of the sons of Mobsters who have followed in their fathers footsteps? Furio do you have one?

Yes Bean I made a threat on the sons,brothers,nephews ecc that follow ed a parent in the life. Corallo in the jaguar tape said to sal avellino:"if we dont want this [the mafia] for our sons mean that we feel shame of it"

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=872782&page=1

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, Corallo said that it's the same thing as a doctor wanting his son to be a doctor. Lol.

In the early 80s when Corallo said so, when cosa nostra was the top dog in the east coast was different. Now be made is a sure sentence that be a simple criminal.

I just can't believe anyone would take Amuso suggestions or advice on anything. How many guys on the street could even really still know him? He's been gone for what 20 years? that's like 2 lifetimes on the street.

Wonder boy is the boss

Some people are still convinced Amuso was a puppet boss for Casso too, which subsequent events proved to be incorrect, like when guys on the street got behind Vic and ostracized Gas from the family.



http://www.leagle.com/decision/199823710FSupp2d227_1213/U.S.%20v.%20AMUSO

Some of the guys still around that had contact with amuso would be lastorino and 2 jersey guys.

Wasnt that much reporting on amuso trial. Maybe in the ny times archives. Wish we could post it all on this thread. How bout the guy was convicted of every single counts. All 54. Your lawyers stink. Also think crea was a amuso guy and was probaly one of the first guys amuso inducted into the family. 86 creas in his mid 30tys almost 40.

@pmac

My thats a pretty significant piece of info there.... So Crea was an Amuso initiate/protege?

That goes a long way to explaining Amusos continued clout. The guy also came from the Gallo crew, that's gotta count for a LOT in NY. That crew was very close to Chin, also a shrewd move to put his own young guy in the Bronx to keep that faction close. I think Amuso might be one of the most misunderstood mobsters.

The assumption that ALL his power comes from Brooklyn crews, might be a bad miscalculation...

Just was rereading a chapter in darcos book. In dec 1990 amuso n casso are on the run and at i think it was pat testas parents house vic taps al as acting boss he makes bowatt underboss he says thats cassos guy. Al says no one likes him and vic makes crea the acting consig. I mean vic must have liked him to jump him from soldier to consig. And if creas still acting boss today hes probaly happy to let amuso still have the official tittle cause the only people that care about that are the feds same with whoever leads the gambinos letting petter gotti hold that tittle. But i think there is a new official boss of the gambinos just to much history to let it got to a guy sitting in jail forever.

And with that old saying your familys only as strong as the boss with the genovese having barney b as theres i would just guess 200 guys kn the other family wouldnt want or respect peter gotti sitting in a cell getting the respect that other bosses got.

IvyLeague has posted over 8,000 times to this board and gets paid $0 for each post. Yet, he always feels the need to belittle other people's posts. Like he's the Ruler of The Universe. If you don't like the post, try not commenting. Or do you have nothing else to do in while you live in your moms basement?

Ivy can't post here anymore so no use bashing him since he can't reapond

for the damage gas and vic did to that family, killing good men ,ruining families ,women children he should have stepped down a long time ago. they killed buddy L. and others for nothing,

Good men?

You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

My man, shut up.


And Amuso still held power as seen in the Operation Heat transcripts, sure he inducted Scarfo Jr at the behest of the old man, but wired recordings show that at least during a short period of time, Matthew Madaonna & Joseph DiNapoli also shared faith in Scarfo Jr. Transcripts also show that it really was the talk of "a war with Philadelphia" which really was a major cause for him being demoted after Ralph Perna got out. The common belief though is those were rumours started by Jr's enemies within the Jersey Lucchese crew.